#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 30 Jan 2004 (GMT)

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[02:19:04] <servusAway> wjp: Help! I don't know how to turn on my computer! Oh, wait, I'm not Wishstone.
[02:26:33] <servusAway> Ouch! A video capture card recommended by FreeVo is ~US$100!
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[02:50:09] * servus looks at Darke ... looks at http://www.tccandler.com/bunnypancake.jpg ... looks at Darke
[02:54:36] * servus looks at the 3D monsters in Ultima Underworld PSX and cries! http://members.chello.at/dominus/PSOGL2_025.jpg ! Ugly! Ugly!
[02:56:03] <servus> So ugly that I must leave and think of bunnies and pancakes *wave*
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[11:26:05] <servus> I've given up on emacs and gone back to ed
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[11:31:57] <Colourless> hi
[12:40:15] <wjp> hi
[12:45:47] <wjp> Colourless: did you get my mail to the ML about the audio?
[12:45:52] <wjp> (I didn't get it myself...)
[12:46:33] <wjp> if not, a short summary: the waveform that cvs exult generates for the vocs is shifted down rather a lot (its not centered around 0)
[12:46:38] <wjp> s/its/it's/
[12:46:49] <wjp> http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exult_wave.png
[12:47:17] <wjp> when I change convert_VOC to use the "Old code" (as mentioned in the comments), this does not occur
[12:47:17] <Colourless> wjp: no i didn't get it
[12:47:45] <Colourless> wjp: strange
[12:48:00] <wjp> I captured waves from exult using cubic interpolation, exult using the old code and dosbox, and put them zipped at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exult_waves.zip
[12:48:04] <wjp> (about 1.5Mb)
[12:48:06] <Colourless> could be an error somewhere in the upsampling of the new code
[12:48:27] <Colourless> probably is just using a 'shift'
[12:48:46] <wjp> it does a = *src; a |= (a << 8);, IIRC
[12:49:57] <Colourless> that 'should' be ok
[12:50:36] <Colourless> you could try doing a = *src*65535
[12:50:40] <Colourless> eh
[12:50:46] <Colourless> a = (*src*65535)/255l
[12:50:51] <Colourless> s/l/;/
[12:51:16] <wjp> I tried a 'a = (*src) << 8', but that had the same effect
[12:51:35] <wjp> (I'm not at home right now, so I can't really check)
[12:51:35] <Colourless> i'll check the code myself as there could be a bias being created
[12:51:41] <Colourless> ah ok
[12:52:00] <Colourless> "a = (*src) << 8" is not correct
[12:52:14] <wjp> yeah, I know
[12:52:47] <Colourless> old code did:
[12:52:47] <Colourless> stereo_data[j++] = (new_data[i] - 128)<<8;
[12:54:21] <wjp> btw, setting the env.var SDL_AUDIODRIVER to 'disk' will make SDL output raw audio data to disk
[12:54:24] <Colourless> ok, this code is 'odd'
[12:54:59] <Colourless> but i think i understand it
[12:55:04] <wjp> 'this' == old or new?
[12:55:08] <Colourless> new
[12:55:24] <Colourless> the cubic interpolater must be working on unsigned int
[12:56:33] <Colourless> i know what is doing it
[12:56:36] <Colourless> it's the RANGE_REDUX stuff
[12:57:06] <Colourless> it introduces a bias in the unsigned code
[12:57:23] <Colourless> where as it 'wouldn't' if it was signed
[12:58:19] <Colourless> (yes i am aware that >> 5 on a negative number doesn't act the same as >>5 on a positive number)
[12:59:08] <Colourless> ok, lets 'fix' this
[13:02:11] <Colourless> ok, fixed :-)
[13:02:46] <wjp> great :-)
[13:05:31] <wjp> bbl
[13:07:02] <Colourless> hmm, if i commit i need to update all version numbers :-)
[13:07:46] <Colourless> i'll wait for 'opinions' on version numbers before doing anything
[14:13:20] <wjp> yes, version numbers
[14:13:22] <wjp> well
[14:13:27] <wjp> 1.1.9cvs?
[14:14:21] <Colourless> while i don't have any particular objections to 1.1.9cvs, you complained yesterday about users calling 1.1.9rc1 as 1.1.9... same would happen with 1.1.9cvs too
[14:14:29] <wjp> yes...
[14:16:24] <wjp> although theoretically 1.1.9cvs should stay quite close to 1.1.9rc1
[14:16:29] <wjp> ("theoretically" :-) )
[14:17:29] <Colourless> hell, we could go the '4 digit' version number
[14:17:41] <wjp> or 1.1.10
[14:17:54] <Colourless> yes '10' would work for me
[14:18:07] <Colourless> or 1.1.A :-)
[14:18:47] <Colourless> though i think 1.1.A would be a tad too confusing for users :-)
[14:22:30] <Colourless> so 1.1.10cvs ?
[14:22:43] <wjp> yeah, why not
[14:35:30] <Colourless> ok, now lets see about fixing these sample rates
[14:39:27] <wjp> sample rate in the vocs for BG seems to be correct, btw
[14:39:35] <Colourless> um, no they aren't
[14:39:43] <wjp> no?
[14:39:46] <Colourless> no
[14:39:51] <Colourless> dosbox sounds different :-)
[14:39:53] <wjp> but exult plays them at the same rate as dosbox
[14:39:55] <Colourless> lower pitch
[14:40:00] <Colourless> slower :-)
[14:40:08] <wjp> voc #1 plays exactle 12.6 seconds in both
[14:40:11] <wjp> s/le/ly/
[14:40:31] <Colourless> not here
[14:41:40] <wjp> did you get that zip of wavs I made or did you check yourself?
[14:41:56] <Colourless> check myself
[14:42:05] <Colourless> voc 1 plays for 10.9 seconds for me
[14:42:25] <Colourless> +-0.1
[14:42:43] <wjp> in dosbox?
[14:42:47] <Colourless> exult
[14:42:53] <wjp> peculiar
[14:44:54] <Colourless> plays for 12.6 seconds in dosbox
[14:45:35] <Colourless> now exactly what version of u7 are you testing with?
[14:45:50] <wjp> I'm not really sure
[14:45:59] <wjp> probably from the complete U7
[14:46:24] <wjp> what samplerate does your voc #1 have according to exult?
[14:47:25] <Colourless> let me recompile
[14:47:48] <wjp> mine 9615Hz
[14:49:27] <wjp> interestingly, 9615*12.6/10.9 is very close to 11111
[14:50:15] <Colourless> ok, finished recompiling. Lets see...
[14:51:11] <Colourless> 11111
[14:51:40] <wjp> interesting
[14:51:52] <wjp> no wonder this bug has been around so long
[14:51:55] <wjp> it's not present in all U7 versions
[14:52:40] <Colourless> i'll check all the voice files to see what each are
[14:52:47] <Colourless> afaik they should all be 9615
[14:53:12] <Colourless> uh
[14:53:19] <wjp> mine are all 9615, from what I remember
[14:53:30] <Colourless> there is a 'bug' :-)
[14:53:42] <Colourless> sample_rate = 11111
[14:54:07] <Colourless> removing that 'fixes' the problem
[14:54:34] <Colourless> entire code:
[14:54:35] <Colourless> #ifdef FUDGE_SAMPLE_RATES
[14:54:35] <Colourless> if (sample_rate = 11111) sample_rate = 11025;
[14:54:35] <Colourless> else if (sample_rate = 22222) sample_rate = 22050;
[14:54:35] <Colourless> #endif
[14:54:36] <Colourless> :-)
[14:54:45] <wjp> uh
[14:55:19] <wjp> that would make it 11025 if FUDGE_SAMPLE_RATES is defined, wouldn't it?
[14:55:25] <Colourless> yes :-)
[14:56:00] <Colourless> (vocs can never have 11025 sample rate so i said 11111 when i saw it say 11025)
[14:59:15] <Colourless> i might re-release 1.1.9rc1 with that define removed
[14:59:34] <Colourless> (that is compile it without FUDGE_SAMPLE_RATES defined)
[15:02:50] <Colourless> what filename should i give the 'new' release ?
[15:04:49] <Colourless> exult-1.1.9rc1-2-win32.exe ?
[15:06:07] <Colourless> or use the samename and just update the file?
[15:09:10] <Colourless> i'm going to make it exult-1.1.9rc1a-win32.exe since that follows the same convention when Fingolfin had to rerelease the mac version once
[15:39:13] <wjp> you #defined FUDGE_SAMPLE_RATES for just the win32 release?
[15:39:21] <Colourless> yes
[15:39:26] <wjp> interesting :-)
[15:39:41] <Colourless> ok, upload finished
[15:40:03] <Colourless> no, i wonder what sourceforges mirroring is like at the moment
[15:41:10] <wjp> I should probably check if the zaurus package has propagated already
[15:43:21] <Colourless> btw i didn't actually realize that compile flag was being set for releases :-)
[15:45:54] <wjp> hidden somewhere deep in the MSVC settings? :-)
[15:46:13] <Colourless> it was hidden in settings that i don't look at :-)
[15:46:35] <Colourless> z isn't propagated entirely
[15:46:53] <wjp> but to some?
[15:46:58] <Colourless> yes
[15:47:02] <Colourless> it's on twtelecom
[15:47:09] <Colourless> wasn't on easynews
[15:47:42] <Colourless> is on umn
[15:48:06] <Colourless> is on aleron
[15:48:32] <Colourless> is on switch
[15:48:51] <wjp> easynews does have the .tar.gz
[15:48:58] <Colourless> not on keihanna
[15:49:19] <Colourless> is on flow
[15:49:21] <wjp> I have to go again; bbl
[15:50:20] <Colourless> is on heanet
[15:51:00] <Colourless> is not on unc
[15:51:20] <Colourless> so it's on 'most' of them, but not yet all
[15:51:30] <Colourless> i can'
[15:51:42] <Colourless> i can't connect to switch so i have no idea about that
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[16:08:29] <Fingolfin> yo
[16:08:34] <Colourless> hi
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[17:36:48] <wjp> back
[17:36:53] <wjp> hi Max
[17:37:31] <Colourless> wb
[17:40:55] <wjp> thanks
[17:41:49] <wjp> to get back to that audio stuff... this doesn't fix the fact that the vocs in SI play too fast for me, does it?
[17:43:01] <Colourless> i didn't notice any problems with si myself after fixing
[17:43:19] <wjp> hm, let's see
[17:43:53] * wjp tries in a clean cvs copy
[17:44:44] <wjp> now on second thought I wonder if it's really too fast or not
[17:45:18] <wjp> The "See how I reward those who fail me" voc is somewhat high, but not sure if it's _too_ high
[17:45:39] <Colourless> the guardian voices in si are 'odd'
[17:45:51] <Colourless> they've been passed through some really crappy reverb filter
[17:45:53] <wjp> it sounds rather metallic here
[17:46:21] <wjp> did you commit that resampling bias fix yet, btw?
[17:46:41] <Colourless> no, not yet
[17:46:58] <Colourless> i'll do it shortly
[17:47:05] <wjp> that mail I sent to the ML last night is going to be out of date when it arrives :-)
[17:47:12] <wjp> (_if_ it arrives :-) )
[17:47:34] <Colourless> oh, i can wait if you would like :-)
[17:47:41] <wjp> that's quite ok :-)
[18:01:26] <wjp> bbl, dinner
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[18:38:29] <wjp> back
[18:38:36] <Colourless> wb
[18:38:49] <wjp> hm, I should add the zaurus package to the download page
[18:38:53] <Colourless> yes
[18:39:19] <Colourless> most of the mirrors have it
[18:42:45] <wjp> strange; content/irc.dat is modified in the checked out copy of the webpage
[18:42:56] <Colourless> yes i saw that myself
[18:43:22] <Colourless> ok committed the audio fixes and afaik updated version numbers
[18:46:00] <Colourless> what was different?
[18:46:26] <wjp> link to logs
[18:46:32] <wjp> (.php3 vs. .php)
[18:47:00] <Colourless> well, it would have been you who did the update, so why wasn't it in cvs?
[18:47:22] <wjp> not a clue
[18:48:35] <Colourless> i'm curious. I updated download.dat myself, but there has been no email about it being updated
[18:49:10] <wjp> I got that one
[18:49:18] <Colourless> i didn't :-)
[18:49:20] <wjp> ("Released Win32 with fixed sound")
[18:50:08] <Colourless> i wonder if spam filtering caught it
[18:50:23] <wjp> I still didn't get that audio mail from last night
[18:50:38] <wjp> I wonder if having a link to a .zip in it stopped it :-)
[18:51:20] <Colourless> you never know :-)
[18:51:43] <wjp> s/link/url/
[18:52:55] <Colourless> i have no idea what happened to my email
[18:53:34] <wjp> yesterday I was still getting cvs mails from as far back as monday :-)
[18:53:54] <wjp> (from scummvm)
[19:18:51] <wjp> hm, the "What is Exult" section from the docs seems rather outdated
[19:19:09] <wjp> "The current version supports much of the game's plot, allowing you to talk to NPCs, use items, solve quests, and even fight monsters."
[19:19:22] <Colourless> hmm, outdated indeed
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[19:20:06] <WishStone> *waves*
[19:20:09] <wjp> hi :-)
[19:20:30] <WishStone> *is high*
[19:20:58] <WishStone> It's the only feeling one can use after buying an old game on eBay, taking an hour to get it to run on a new er PC and THEN play it... for 5 hours staright
[19:21:07] <WishStone> And had Outpost not crashed, i might still be playing it :P
[19:21:12] <wjp> whee :-)
[19:21:17] <wjp> outpost?
[19:21:24] <wjp> *blank*
[19:21:27] <WishStone> By Sierra.
[19:21:32] <wjp> oh
[19:21:37] <wjp> wait, I think I remember
[19:21:38] <WishStone> It's a simulation / strategy game, round based.
[19:21:54] <wjp> I might've briefly played a demo
[19:23:17] <WishStone> You have to build a colony in space.
[19:23:44] * WishStone cradles the CD case in the crook of her arm
[19:23:49] <WishStone> yes, yesssss... my preciousssssssss
[19:24:05] <wjp> hehe :-)
[19:24:24] <wjp> one game to rule them all? :-)
[19:24:54] <wjp> hm, which year was outpost released?
[19:24:58] <WishStone> 94
[19:25:09] <WishStone> it's for win 3.1 :P
[19:25:13] <Colourless> hi WishStone
[19:25:19] <WishStone> Hi there Colourless :]
[19:25:50] <wjp> interestingly, the first hit on google for "outpost sierra" has a LOTR summary :-)
[19:26:00] <WishStone> Hum? :P
[19:27:43] <Colourless> heh bizzare
[19:27:56] <WishStone> You called me?
[19:27:57] <WishStone> ;]
[19:28:41] <WishStone> Mind you, don't mistake Outpost with outpost two, which is a real time strategy game I belive....
[19:29:02] <Colourless> WishStone: that applys to everyone here
[19:29:28] <WishStone> Oh.. *watches the whole channel look up and go "Hu?" ;D
[19:34:29] * wjp hmms at that doc section
[19:34:58] <WishStone> hmm? *looks at it and Hms with wjp, not yet knowing why*
[19:35:09] <wjp> it could use some updating in places :-)
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[22:15:50] <wjp> heh, I got my email :-)
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