#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 30 Oct 2001 (GMT)

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[11:45:28] --- Colourless has changed the topic to: You will do what I say
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[12:51:08] <Flyn> Hello
[12:51:26] <Colourless> hi
[12:51:48] <Flyn> Anyone here still remember me? :-)
[12:52:02] <Colourless> probably not :-)(
[12:52:09] * Flyn grins.
[12:52:16] <Colourless> that was supposed to be just :-)
[12:52:36] <Flyn> I'm the long lost paperdoll graphics artist *chuckles*
[12:52:48] <Colourless> oh :-)
[12:53:00] <Flyn> Heheh
[12:54:03] <Flyn> If you still need any help, I'm ready to provide you with any help I can give...
[12:54:19] <Colourless> yeah, there is still art that is required
[12:54:49] <Flyn> Do you have a new list? Or is the list I have from last time I was here still updated?
[12:55:08] <Colourless> i have no idea :-)
[12:55:16] * Flyn grins.
[12:55:18] <Flyn> Ah well
[12:56:34] <Flyn> Tell Willem I was here, mkay?
[12:56:50] <Colourless> k]
[12:57:03] * Flyn nods and waves.
[12:57:05] <Flyn> Cya around
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[15:22:10] <Dominus> hi
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[15:30:33] <wjp> hi
[15:30:39] <Colourless> hi
[15:30:49] <Colourless> [23:30] <Flyn> Tell Willem I was here, mkay?
[15:31:21] <wjp> k, thx
[15:31:32] <wjp> did he give a reason for it?
[15:31:38] * wjp reads logs
[15:31:46] <Dominus> hi
[15:32:19] <wjp> Colourless: the art list is in docs/art.txt
[15:32:28] <wjp> (in case anyone asks again)
[15:32:28] <Colourless> wjp: ok
[16:53:18] <Colourless> in the font topic on the forum, note that I didn't actually volunteer to actually do anything about it :-)
[16:54:27] <Dominus> hehe
[17:03:17] <wjp> 'We are programmers. What do you expect? We don't need no fancy GUI's." hehe :-)
[17:03:25] <wjp> very true :-)
[17:03:51] <Colourless> :-)
[17:06:18] <wjp> ouch... a script which includes the _full_ GPL in the header
[17:06:28] <wjp> a ~500 line header... *sigh*
[17:07:03] <Colourless> nice :-)
[17:07:35] <wjp> and french comments
[17:07:45] <Colourless> even better :-)
[17:09:48] <wjp> and if that isn't enough... it assumes the perl binary is actually in...
[17:10:02] <wjp> /share/nfs/users1/umr-tge/zoonek/gnu/Linux/bin/perl
[17:10:26] <Colourless> hmmm
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[17:38:28] <fingolfin> hi
[17:38:36] * fingolfin is back from sickback and will not look at the XSL stuff for dominus =)
[17:38:50] <wjp> hi
[17:38:56] --- wjp is now known as wjp|dinner
[17:39:04] <Colourless> hi
[18:20:41] --- wjp|dinner is now known as wjp
[18:20:44] <wjp> b
[18:21:28] <wjp> fingolfin: in case I forget or don't see you before then: good luck next weekend!
[18:25:30] <wjp> (you did say you were going to compete in the acm icpc, right? :-) )
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[18:36:08] <Dominus> hi
[18:36:17] <Colourless> wb
[18:36:22] <wjp> wb
[18:36:36] <Dominus> Had to go see my girlfirend for some minutes :-)
[18:36:48] <Colourless> :-)
[18:37:06] <wjp> ok, valid excuse :-)
[18:37:12] <Dominus> hehe
[18:38:34] <Dominus> can anyone try to get to my homepage via http://beam.To/dominik ? Seems my ISP wonīt go there today but a friend told me he could access is just fine
[18:39:34] <wjp> works for me
[18:39:49] <Dominus> ok, so itīs just my isp :-(
[18:39:59] <Colourless> it works
[18:40:07] <Dominus> thx
[18:41:07] * Dominus wonders how my xsl changes are received by fingolfin
[18:41:26] * Dominus actually wonder about HIS changes
[18:46:32] * fingolfin is back
[18:46:36] <fingolfin> hi Dominus, all
[18:46:42] <Dominus> hi fingolfin
[18:47:12] <Colourless> wb
[18:47:12] <Dominus> wb from the sickbed - what did you catch (sickness wise, I mean)?
[18:48:42] <fingolfin> Dominus: just a common cold, but quite heavily; i.e. on saturday/sunday I had to be on a "Tutorenschulung", then immediatly after this I went sick; today I got up again, just in time for my first day as a tutor =)
[18:48:55] <fingolfin> Dominus: so, it seems the .xsl files in faq and readme are now unified?
[18:49:59] <Dominus> yep, they are (I changed the answer, question, faq tags to sth a bit more obvious thouigh Iīm not content with the transition from faq to sub
[18:50:16] <Dominus> the xsls and the dtd are the same now for the faq and readme
[18:52:02] <Dominus> so we can put all the stuff for which we are using xsl can be put into one directory and generated by one makefile
[18:52:29] <Dominus> (if we ever use more than the faq/readme
[18:52:30] <Dominus> )
[18:59:36] <fingolfin> ok, what name should I give the new subdir?
[18:59:55] <Dominus> maybe just put it all into readme?
[19:00:27] <fingolfin> hm, or I make a new subdir, "xml" ?
[19:00:40] * Dominus nods
[19:00:45] <Dominus> maybe better
[19:02:38] <fingolfin> hm, I am not very happy about the change to sub/header/body, but it's OK
[19:03:15] <Dominus> hm, if you tell em what to use I can easily change that - just wanted to make it more unfaq like
[19:03:57] <Dominus> I can also change it back
[19:04:35] <Dominus> but whatever - leave the changing of those to me as I "broke" them so you donīt have to put up with it
[19:04:55] <fingolfin> nah that is OK
[19:05:07] <fingolfin> I will first try to unify everything (including makefiles)
[19:06:44] <Dominus> btw, that change to make <Exult/> show in cite works fine
[19:07:08] <fingolfin> I will rename exult_faq.xml to faq.xml, that will allow me to simplify the Makefile
[19:07:13] <fingolfin> good to hear!!
[19:07:41] <Dominus> rename is fine, thought of that as well, but first wanted to have a unified makefile
[19:08:34] <Dominus> and again as a reminder the only difference to the makefile.win32 is the ; between the jars
[19:10:46] <fingolfin> sure
[19:10:55] <fingolfin> I am "unifing" stuff right now, so i am renaming
[19:11:06] <Dominus> okey dokey
[19:11:07] <fingolfin> how about renaming readme.xml to docs.xml ?
[19:11:15] <Dominus> just as fine
[19:11:22] <fingolfin> i.e. I would like the basename of the input files be identical to the basenames of the output files
[19:12:00] <Dominus> okay (the only break is the readme.txt then)
[19:12:22] <fingolfin> yeah, I will have to treat that seperatly, no big deal, though
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[20:07:04] <Dominus> Colourless: Tenchi is a bit tight, isnīt he?
[20:12:33] <Colourless> yeah
[20:13:04] <Dominus> did you try out the frontendß
[20:13:06] <Dominus> ?
[20:13:26] <Colourless> nope
[20:13:37] <Dominus> it looks nce
[20:13:40] <Dominus> nice
[20:23:02] <wjp> I guess Tenchi never experienced a real shell before :-)
[20:23:17] <wjp> is a dos prompt is your idea of a command prompt, then, yes, a gui is often better :-)
[20:23:21] <wjp> s/is/if/
[20:24:45] <Colourless> Tenchi is overly defensive
[20:24:48] <Dominus> I had to bite back a comment that people that didnīt grow up with Win9x are used to command line programs
[20:25:33] <wjp> I generally dislike having to point-and-click-and-click-and-click-and-click to perform common tasks
[20:25:38] <wjp> typing is so much faster
[20:26:08] <wjp> but I did indeed not grow up with Win9x :-)
[20:26:10] <Colourless> i agree. command lines are very useful
[20:26:29] <Dominus> especially easier to set up with batch files
[20:26:31] <Colourless> neither did I. Dos, all the way :-)
[20:26:51] <wjp> how's the winxp command prompt, btw? (if it still has one)
[20:27:02] <wjp> any better than the brain-dead win9x one?
[20:27:19] <wjp> (command history? filename completion?)
[20:27:21] <Dominus> better/worse, canīt really say
[20:27:30] <Dominus> filename completion is in
[20:27:33] <Colourless> yeah
[20:27:36] <wjp> nice
[20:27:37] <Colourless> it's better
[20:27:46] <Colourless> NT4 had filename completion
[20:28:03] <wjp> really? hmm, never noticed it
[20:28:05] <wjp> using tab?
[20:28:07] <Colourless> it was an undocumented feature that was off by default :-)
[20:28:13] <wjp> oh, that would explain :-)
[20:28:29] <Colourless> TweakUI allowed you to enable it
[20:28:39] <wjp> I'll have to try that sometime
[20:28:51] <Dominus> I got into computers pretty late (ī95 or sth like that) but getting Dos games like ULTIMA 7 to work quickly got me accoustomed to Dos
[20:29:23] <Colourless> yeah, it does that :-)
[20:29:29] <wjp> around (or a few years before) 1990 for me, I think
[20:29:43] <Colourless> about 89 for me
[20:29:52] <wjp> I remember seeing a Windows from before 3.0
[20:30:29] <Dominus> I remember seeing the setup disks for one before 3.0 :-)
[20:30:31] <Fingolfin> my first windows experience was with 3.1, but I also had been working on DOS 3.0 :) but mainly was using Ataris STs :)
[20:30:41] <Fingolfin> and DR-DOS of course =)
[20:31:22] <Colourless> i have used a version of windows pre 3 :-)
[20:31:48] <Colourless> it was actually 1.01 to be exact. It found it and decided to see what it was like, and it was pretty useless :-)
[20:31:48] <wjp> I was too young to actually 'use' it :-)
[20:31:58] * Fingolfin is happy not to have used any of those; he was disappointed of Win 3.1 anyway, being used to his Atari ST and the Mac IIci of his father =)
[20:32:20] <wjp> I never used an Atari or Mac :/
[20:32:40] <wjp> I don't think I've ever seen anyone work on one either, for that matter
[20:32:48] <Fingolfin> Dominus: oh btw, I finished that Makefile just before I went to dinner, but now I have to download xalan again to be able to test it =)
[20:32:58] <Dominus> hehe
[20:34:52] <Fingolfin> and I get a really bad speed from them, sigh
[20:35:11] <wjp> yeah, apache.org downloads are really slow for me too
[20:35:43] <Fingolfin> wjp: sometimes I wonder why I pay for DSl when all those servers are that damns slow
[20:35:51] <Fingolfin> but then I connect to a fast server, and know again why =)
[20:35:56] <wjp> sun's servers are pretty fast :-)
[20:35:58] <Dominus> :-)
[20:36:10] * wjp had to download a jsdk & jre recently
[20:36:29] <wjp> (along with forte4j and some other tools)
[20:51:54] <Colourless> time for me to go
[20:52:02] <wjp> night
[20:52:10] <-- Colourless has left IRC (it's far too late)
[21:00:21] <Fingolfin> Dominus: you want readme.txt instead of docs.txt, right?
[21:00:34] <Dominus> actually readme would be nicer
[21:00:55] <Dominus> but then the text output is not working with docs
[21:01:08] <Dominus> I meant readme without txt
[21:01:48] <Dominus> the xsl does not properly generate the key table and the exult.cfg stuff
[21:03:11] <Fingolfin> hmm
[21:03:43] <Fingolfin> you know, for now I will just add it all "orthogonal" to CVS; it will output docs.txt
[21:04:03] <Fingolfin> in the xml dir, there is already a README file, which tells you to download Xalan to be able to build the docs :)
[21:04:03] <Dominus> thatīs okay
[21:04:46] * Dominus nods
[21:05:12] <Dominus> itīs just because the readme genereted by the docs is used ias README in the root
[21:05:41] <Fingolfin> Dominus: well, I could make it copy the docs.txt to ../../README then
[21:05:55] <Fingolfin> although that would be very ugly :)
[21:06:28] <Dominus> you could but as it still looks ugly just leave it until you/we can fix those issues with the txt.xsl
[21:06:39] <Fingolfin> aye
[21:06:45] <Fingolfin> commited to CVS, please test it
[21:10:55] <Dominus> works okay
[21:11:35] <Dominus> thanks for unifying it
[21:12:09] <Dominus> did you look at what I did with the xsls?
[21:12:34] <Dominus> I wondered if it can be more simplfied with the templates faqs and readme
[21:18:14] <Fingolfin> didn't look yet
[21:18:58] <Dominus> oh, and someone asked if we can have the <pre> tag in it
[21:19:41] <Fingolfin> I think it could the .xsl could indeed be simplified a lot
[21:19:47] <Fingolfin> <pre> ? who asked this and for what?
[21:20:01] <Dominus> to have the exult.cfg stuff look better when copy pasted into text editor
[21:20:15] <Dominus> (which I donīt really care for)
[21:20:54] <Dominus> The sample config file in the Exult docs can be
[21:20:56] <Dominus> confusing, because it isn't indented.
[21:21:05] <Dominus> thatīs what he said
[21:21:55] <Fingolfin> hm
[21:22:01] <Dominus> but then there is the problem with the comments by me - so better just disregard it
[21:23:55] <Dominus> he also mentioned it could be done by using tables and also gave an example for it
[21:50:08] <Fingolfin> Dominus: I simplified the XSL files a little bit
[21:50:16] <Dominus> cool, thx
[21:57:38] <Fingolfin> hm, exult fails to compile for me with current CVS :/
[21:58:25] <Dominus> hm, works for me
[21:58:37] <Dominus> worked for me actually
[21:59:07] <Fingolfin> I see the problem
[21:59:20] <Fingolfin> somebody is mixing unsigned int and size_t, which may work on other systems, but not over here
[22:08:07] * wjp is innocent... I never ever used a size_t :-)
[22:08:13] <wjp> s/ever/even/
[22:08:35] <wjp> *gone again*
[22:08:48] <Dominus> :-9
[22:17:27] <Fingolfin> well
[22:17:41] <Fingolfin> the problem indeed is that somebody did not use size_t when he should have..
[22:17:49] * Fingolfin runs a cvs blame to find the guilty :)
[22:18:52] <Fingolfin> it was ryan! aha! :)
[22:27:23] <wjp> b
[22:27:41] <wjp> see, told you I was innocent ;-)
[22:29:46] <wjp> hmm, phorum backup file is growing with about 25K/day
[22:29:54] <wjp> busy forum
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[22:44:03] <Dominus> got to go!
[22:44:05] <Dominus> bye
[22:44:07] <wjp> bye
[22:44:11] <-- Dominus has left IRC (Read error to Dominus[212186137085.15.univie.teleweb.at]: EOF from client)
[22:51:26] <wjp> you're going to be in the acm icpc this weekend, right?
[22:56:34] <fingolfin> no
[22:57:21] <fingolfin> we only placed 4th out of 16 teams or something like that :/
[22:57:31] <fingolfin> we were only two ppl, too
[22:57:32] <wjp> 16?!
[22:57:37] <wjp> ah, pity :-(
[22:58:01] <fingolfin> 16 teams, yeah, how many was it at your university?
[22:58:08] <wjp> oh, about, umm, one :-)
[22:58:29] <wjp> would've been two if I my/our team would've gone too
[22:58:37] <wjp> s/I //
[22:58:57] <fingolfin> ?!
[22:59:14] <wjp> yeah, not much, I know :-)
[22:59:30] <fingolfin> maybe we have a misunderstanding?! you mean at your whole university there were only two teams competing for an ACM slot?!?!
[22:59:57] <wjp> well, that's assuming there aren't any outside the math/cs departments, but yes
[23:00:15] <wjp> and there was only one this year, not two :-)
[23:00:23] <fingolfin> woa =)
[23:00:49] <wjp> it was 3 or 4 or something when it was in the netherlands 2 years ago, but still not 16 :-)
[23:01:29] <fingolfin> hm, I guess that is the drawback of having a lot of advertisment for ACM :)
[23:01:41] <wjp> yeah
[23:01:47] <fingolfin> how big is your university, student wise? we have about 16.000 students I think
[23:01:58] <wjp> hmm, good question
[23:02:29] <wjp> I guess somewhere in the order of 10K
[23:02:43] <wjp> might be a bit more, might be a bit less; I'm not really sure
[23:03:01] <fingolfin> also, our university is called a "techincal universtiy", and it is "specialised" on techinc/science stuff, like math, phsyics, comp sci, engineering, building etc., and a lot of these guys tend to program
[23:03:19] <wjp> yeah, we have technical univs here too. (Leiden isn't one, though)
[23:03:48] <wjp> there are usually more teams from the TU's, yes
[23:05:08] <wjp> I never had to do any pre-selection contests. Kind of nice :-)
[23:05:32] <wjp> (not that we wouldn't have won those anyway ;-P )
[23:06:09] <wjp> (ok ok... so there isn't much in the way of compettion here)
[23:07:29] <wjp> *sigh*... /me kicks latex
[23:08:15] <wjp> I just can't seem to figure out how to install a new font without being root
[23:08:44] <fingolfin> well, I think it is not bad to have some good competion, but if they have three good programmers, and your team only has 2, that can already make a difference :/
[23:08:47] <fingolfin> hehee
[23:09:11] <wjp> yeah, having 3 people is kind of a must, unfortunately :-(
[23:13:39] <fingolfin> indeed, hope it will be better next time :) last time we had bad luck, as our 3rd man was not available, and his replacment was not either
[23:13:51] <fingolfin> hm, I better go to bed now, have to got to a lecture tomorrow morning early =)
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