#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 31 Jul 2001 (GMT)

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[02:52:18] --- ChanServ has changed the topic to: Exult, the open source Ultima 7 and U7 part 2 engine
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[07:52:40] <Kefka> i am new to linux (a convert from win32! woohoo!). I use Debian and am wondering if there is an entry i can put in my sources.list so that i can use apt-get to upgrade to new versions of Exult.
[08:06:12] <matt0> Kefka: I don't think so ... Dancer was doing a .deb package a LONG time ago but I'm pretty sure that it has not been maintained for quite some time
[08:06:44] <matt0> you can try using alien to convert the .rpm package to a .deb
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[08:25:57] <sty_work> ave
[08:26:03] <matt0> STY!@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[08:26:44] <sty_work> ciao matto
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[08:30:52] <S[t]Y> wa
[08:31:01] <S[t]Y> i've fallen
[08:31:08] <matt0> yes.. yes you have
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[08:48:40] <S[t]Y> YOU've fallen :DDD
[08:49:11] <matt0> ouch
[09:35:09] <Kefka> oops
[09:35:26] <Kefka> sorry about not replying to ya matt0, i was afk reading
[09:36:36] <Kefka> ok, i will take a look at alien. maybe i can learn how to create a deb package and offer it as my part in helping exult
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[11:03:14] <wjp> hi
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[11:36:21] <Fingolfin|busy> hi wjp
[11:36:48] <Fingolfin|busy> are there tools that help me write man pages? Or should I just try to find a ref for the format, and learn it? doesnīt look to complicated
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[12:16:02] <Kirben> Anyone able to add 2 updated files to cvs ? I can no longer log in to cvs myself
[12:16:05] <Colourless> hi
[12:16:07] <fingolfin> hi
[12:16:10] <Kirben> Hi Colourless
[12:16:21] <fingolfin> Kirben: hu? what do you mean you canīt log into CVS?!?
[12:16:44] <fingolfin> Kirben: btw, could you please on the Exult web pages, chmod g+w snapshots?
[12:16:45] <Kirben> only if I use anonymous
[12:17:12] <Kirben> oops, do I do that just for directory or all files ?
[12:17:16] <fingolfin> Kirben: well, I can add files to CVS for you, sure, but maybe it would be better to fix your CVS setup= ;)
[12:17:20] <fingolfin> Kirben: do this:
[12:17:29] <fingolfin> chmod -R g+w snapshots
[12:17:38] <fingolfin> it will change the dir and all its content recursively
[12:18:40] <Kirben> done
[12:18:53] <fingolfin> thx
[12:19:00] <fingolfin> just in case somebody else needs to change something there
[12:19:19] <fingolfin> Kirben: what is the exact problem with CVS? you get an error?
[12:20:13] * fingolfin reads Tristanīs commit message, and dreams of a platform independant, Exult-UI integrated path chooser
[12:21:18] <Colourless> hehe. I was almost going to do the same thing a little later this evening
[12:21:36] <Kirben> $ cvs -z3 -d:ext:kirben@cvs.exult.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/exult co exult
[12:21:37] <Kirben> > usw-pr-cvs.sourceforge.net:Connection refused
[12:21:37] <Kirben> cvs [checkout aborted]: end of file from server (consult above messages if any)
[12:22:13] <Colourless> odd.
[12:24:00] <Kirben> fingolfin: were you refering to me with mention of snapshots on web site in mailing a few days back ?
[12:24:43] <fingolfin> Kirben: uhm.. no idea... which mail? /me has to read what /me wrote...
[12:24:58] <Kirben> 3) Snapshots - Tony Hoyt wanted a snapshots section. That shouldn't
[12:24:59] <Kirben> be a problem, tony, just add your stuff to content/download.dat, or
[12:24:59] <Kirben> submit to your changes if you prefer that. I suggest you put your
[12:25:00] <Kirben> files into a new subdir, though, not on the same level as the php
[12:25:00] <Kirben> files (maybe "snapshots").
[12:25:00] <Kirben> Don't forget to call
[12:25:00] <Kirben> chmod -R g+w snapshots
[12:25:02] <Kirben> ;)
[12:25:16] <fingolfin> nah
[12:25:22] <fingolfin> I was refering to tristan ;)
[12:25:35] <fingolfin> he forgot to do it with the forum, which I had to change, but couldnīt
[12:25:42] <fingolfin> ;)
[12:25:55] <fingolfin> of course, I *never* forgot this in the past ;)
[12:26:05] <Kirben> ok
[12:26:44] <fingolfin> anybody can tell me how I can detect on my machine which ports are open?
[12:34:20] * fingolfin installs nmap and is happy
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[12:56:23] <Dominus> hi
[12:56:27] <Colourless> hi
[12:56:51] <fingolfin> hi
[12:57:25] <Dominus> wjp|work : any possibility to have two items bound to a key?
[12:58:05] * Dominus wants to drink from the everlasting goblet and maybe eat at the same time
[12:58:59] <Dominus> Nadirīs path patch is quite nice
[12:59:09] <Dominus> btw
[13:00:02] <Dominus> renamed both my game folders and it told me to look up my configurations
[13:05:39] <Colourless> yeah, it's pretty good. Probably should have a "Press any key quit message".
[13:09:25] <Kirben> So anyone able to add those 2 updated files to cvs ? data path is missing from makefile.cygwin/win32
[13:14:46] <Dominus> I could do
[13:15:10] <Kirben> ok will dcc
[13:16:28] <Dominus> hmm
[13:16:40] <Dominus> didnīt come trhough
[13:16:47] <Dominus> could you email me
[13:17:07] <Kirben> ok what address ?
[13:17:21] <Dominus> gigdr@tesionmail.de
[13:18:09] <Kirben> sent
[13:18:23] <Dominus> Colourless: would be great if the path patch also looks up all the other paths and gives an error message if it doesnīt find the files (wave packs, keybindings)
[13:19:26] <Colourless> Dom: perhaps, but exult can run without all of them
[13:19:48] <Dominus> I know but they still complain that it doesnīt work
[13:25:52] <Dominus> hm, kirben, no mail yet
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[13:38:39] <Nadir> hi
[13:39:37] <Nadir> I said "HI!"
[13:39:47] <Kirben> Hi Nadir
[13:41:56] <Colourless> hi
[13:41:58] <Nadir> Kirben: one suggestion. Now that I've done the "Idiot Proof" patch, could you please rename exult.cfg in the snapshots to exult.cfg.example
[13:42:03] * Colourless was out of the room
[13:42:59] <Kirben> ok
[13:43:28] <Nadir> I bet people just keep overwriting their exult.cfg
[13:44:59] * Nadir reads the logs
[13:45:15] <Colourless> me to
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[13:47:41] <Nadir> path-checking for sound packs and patches should be reasonable, but we really need a browser
[13:50:09] <Colourless> nadir: At the moment, until we really know what we want to do couldn't we impliment browsers using OS exported functions?
[13:51:23] <Nadir> opendir() ?
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[13:53:07] <Colourless> no, i'm talking about using something like the Windows Common Dialog Boxes
[13:53:12] <Colourless> just temporarily
[13:55:18] <Nadir> and under Unix ?
[13:55:46] <Colourless> no idea
[13:55:56] <Colourless> i don't know enough about unix
[13:56:14] <Nadir> Exactly. There isn't a common file-chooser. Depends on the toolkit. Xaw, Motif, GTK+, Qt. All different
[13:59:11] <Colourless> well that's annoying.
[13:59:22] <Nadir> We're better off doing our own.
[13:59:59] <Colourless> Yeah I know. I just wanted to put something in until we've got our own method
[14:00:28] <Colourless> even if i just have to #ifdef WIN32 around the code I add
[14:00:36] <S[t]Y> it's not difficult to write a INI File . you do it once.
[14:00:55] <Nadir> *bleah*
[14:00:56] <Colourless> you would think that wouldn't you ;-)
[14:01:14] <Colourless> many people have proved otherwise though
[14:01:57] <S[t]Y> what's the prob
[14:02:25] <Nadir> we need a news update. WJP!!!
[14:08:07] <Nadir> bbl
[14:08:09] <-- Nadir has left IRC (Pleasant dreams, Avatar... hehehehehe)
[14:19:46] * fingolfin pops in for a moment and says "in case somebody makes web site update (news...) maybe tell me so that I donīt overwrite them by accident"
[14:20:11] <fingolfin> in fact, I still think it would be best if we had the site in CVS... I need to tackle this sometimes
[14:20:32] <fingolfin> s/sometimes/at some point in the future/
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[14:56:38] <sty_work> re
[14:56:54] <Colourless> greeting ;-)
[14:57:02] <sty_work> hail
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[15:20:34] <Nadir> b
[15:45:56] <fingolfin> wb
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[15:55:07] * wjp prepares for a weekly update
[15:57:59] <wjp> fingolfin, Nadir?
[15:59:21] * wjp feels ignored
[16:00:30] <Nadir> hi
[16:00:38] <wjp> hi :-)
[16:00:51] <wjp> so... I guess I should just edit content/news.dat?
[16:00:58] <Nadir> Ask fingolfin.
[16:01:04] * wjp asks fingolfin
[16:01:13] <wjp> (tries to, anyway :-) )
[16:01:21] * Nadir tries as well
[16:01:25] <Nadir> FINGOLFIN!!!
[16:01:41] * Nadir nudges exultbot
[16:02:00] * exultbot wakes up
[16:02:16] <Nadir> exultbot: bite fingolfin
[16:02:25] * exultbot bites Fingolfin
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[16:08:42] <wjp> ok, update done
[16:08:47] <wjp> time for me to go home
[16:08:50] <wjp> see you later
[16:09:03] <Nadir> bye
[16:09:07] <-- wjp has left IRC ([x]chat)
[16:09:46] <Nadir> max, you killed my name in the Changelog...
[16:11:04] * fingolfin is back
[16:11:09] <fingolfin> ouch!
[16:11:18] <fingolfin> Nadir: ack sorry
[16:11:25] <fingolfin> wjp: sure edit it
[16:11:28] <Nadir> committed a new one. Check the entry
[16:11:32] <Nadir> He's done it already
[16:12:01] <fingolfin> wjp: I will at one point add a real news system, where you only enter title, date and body of the news item, and it will automatically put it to index/history as appropriate
[16:12:12] <fingolfin> hm
[16:12:31] <Nadir> fingolfin: wjp is not here
[16:12:34] <fingolfin> I get beeps when i get priv msgs... maybe I can activate this for "fingolfin" text in msgs, too
[16:12:46] <fingolfin> Nadir: ...
[16:12:48] <fingolfin> indeed
[16:12:57] * fingolfin activates userlist
[16:13:00] <fingolfin> indeed indeed ;)
[16:14:13] <Nadir> fingolfin: navigation menu at the top of forum is still not synched with the other pages
[16:14:47] <fingolfin> it doesnīt use main.tpl if you mean that, yes, but it should have all entries, no?
[16:15:18] <Nadir> I mean wrt fonts
[16:15:21] <fingolfin> well
[16:15:25] <fingolfin> phorum uses a css
[16:15:31] <fingolfin> I havenīt yet looked at that I must admit
[16:15:47] <fingolfin> so much things to do, so little time
[16:18:49] <Nadir> fingolfin: have you played with mysql ?
[16:21:14] <matt0> mysql rules!
[16:22:24] <fingolfin> Nadir: nope. I sure would like to use it for the news, though
[16:22:36] <fingolfin> Nadir: we already have a DB setup at SF, for phorum, right?
[16:22:52] <fingolfin> Nadir: I assume one will have to add a table to that somehow, and then store news in it...
[16:23:12] <fingolfin> Nadir: if you (or matt0?) know about mysql, you could help me set it up at SF I guess ,)
[16:23:24] <matt0> fingolfin: I have done some stuff with mysql before
[16:23:27] <Nadir> matt0: mysql is rubbish compared to other real RDBMSs
[16:23:32] <matt0> http://www.rulecity.com/cgi-bin/daphldp
[16:23:35] <fingolfin> <sigh>
[16:23:40] <fingolfin> please no holy wars, ok? ;)
[16:23:42] <matt0> there's one thing I did hehe
[16:23:59] <Nadir> but I recognize it is neat for small things.
[16:24:20] <fingolfin> like a couple dozen news/history entries for exultīs homepage ;)
[16:24:30] <Nadir> Yes phorum uses mysql. If you need login details... use the source ! :)
[16:24:43] <Nadir> hell, slashdot is mysql-based !
[16:24:50] <Nadir> and it works
[16:25:00] <fingolfin> I want them to be in a db; the last 5 / last month news / whichever is less news on index, the rest in history
[16:25:26] <Nadir> mysql is awful at concurrent insert/updates. selects are very quick (unless you're using complex queries)
[16:25:43] <fingolfin> ideally, news could be added via a web interface, but then I also need to add a user login, and a passwd db, etc.
[16:26:08] <matt0> mysql is really the only thing I have tried
[16:26:52] <matt0> Nadir: what do you mean concurrent insert/updates? you mean if two people are trying to insert at the same time?
[16:26:57] <Nadir> Yes
[16:27:06] <matt0> does it have bugs? or is it just slow
[16:27:33] <Nadir> It doesn't degrade gracefully. SF switched to PostgreSQL for that reason.
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[16:27:59] <matt0> ugh.. but I hate the name PostgreSQL .. hehe
[16:28:07] <matt0> wjp!!!!!!!!!
[16:28:14] <wjp> hi
[16:28:37] <matt0> speed.planet! hehe
[16:28:53] <wjp> hmm, if SF switched to pgsql, why do we have a mysql db?
[16:29:24] <Nadir> dunno. Because most OpenSource developers swear by MySQL
[16:29:39] <matt0> is there a political reason for that? (is postgresql non-free?)
[16:30:01] <Nadir> postgresql is Free (all GPL). MySql is not-so-free
[16:30:18] <matt0> is that so? I thought it was the other way around ..
[16:30:27] <Nadir> nope. Common gotcha
[16:30:36] <matt0> interesting ..
[16:31:11] <fingolfin> hehe
[16:31:12] <fingolfin> well
[16:31:24] <Nadir> there are two branches of mysql. The most advanced is not Free. The other one is.
[16:31:28] <fingolfin> yeah
[16:31:47] <Nadir> The non-Free becomes Free after 6 months I believe
[16:31:51] <fingolfin> but postgresql is not better in all cases, not at all; both mysql and psql have pros and cons AFAIk
[16:32:11] <Nadir> Nothing beats Oracle and DB/2 for Real Work (tm)
[16:32:21] <matt0> hehe
[16:32:46] <wjp> hmm... interesting... Netscape ignores the <br/>'s in some of the phorum posts
[16:33:00] <Nadir> I've seen multi-TB instances of Oracle. Try that at home with mysql/pgsql :)
[16:33:02] <matt0> you mean </br> ?
[16:33:08] <wjp> no, <br/>
[16:33:27] <matt0> Nadir: well that's great and everything but it's a commercial product ...
[16:33:46] <Nadir> that is true. But I'm not against commercial when it's needed.
[16:33:51] <matt0> rejoicing that a commercial product beats out the free ones isn't very sportsmanlike.. :)
[16:34:13] <Nadir> I'm a pragmatic guy. What works best is best :)
[16:37:22] <Nadir> bye
[16:37:33] <-- Nadir has left IRC (Pleasant dreams, Avatar... hehehehehe)
[16:52:06] --- wjp is now known as wjp|dinner
[17:32:06] --- wjp|dinner is now known as wjp
[17:34:31] <fingolfin> hi wjp, can you tell me how I should make a man page? is there a program that helps me doing so, or should I just learn the syntax?
[17:35:02] <wjp> hmm, no idea really
[17:35:21] <wjp> I think there may be something that produces them, though
[17:35:35] <fingolfin> Iīll try to google it
[17:35:40] <fingolfin> emacs has a nroff mode
[17:36:40] <matt0> man exult ?
[17:37:05] <fingolfin> no, another man page, I need to make one ;)
[17:38:13] <wjp> syntax doesn't look all that hard
[17:38:14] <matt0> :)
[17:38:23] <matt0> greetings Avatar! I am making many new friends in Britannia
[17:38:26] <fingolfin> no
[17:38:37] <fingolfin> but it would be nice to have at least a reference what I can do there exactly ;)
[17:39:17] * fingolfin finds some stuff googling for "how to write a man page" ;)
[17:39:43] <fingolfin> googleīs archive function is invaluable for me
[17:40:03] * matt0 googles at fingolfin's gushing praise of google
[17:40:38] <fingolfin> well, google is the best search engine, by far better than e.g. altavista
[17:40:45] <matt0> yes, I agree
[17:40:52] <matt0> and it runs linux
[17:40:56] <matt0> :)
[17:41:18] <fingolfin> I donīt really care about that, I only care about the functionality ;)
[17:41:29] <matt0> you'd care if it ran Mac OS X!
[17:41:48] <fingolfin> sure! then I could say: see, OS X is great, google uses it ;))))
[17:41:57] <matt0> hehehe
[17:42:05] <fingolfin> then somebody would point out how crappy & shitty google is, as it runs MacOS X
[17:42:10] <fingolfin> etc.
[17:42:11] <fingolfin> ;)
[17:42:42] <matt0> I read a funny post on slashdot a month ago or so about OS X
[17:42:57] <matt0> it wasn't intended to be funny
[17:43:06] <matt0> it was from a Mac user who disguised his identity until the end
[17:43:55] <fingolfin> "Linux man page howto" yes!
[17:44:08] <matt0> he was saying stuff like "What unix really needs is a desktop environment where you can always use the command line but are never required to.." etc etc .. and finally at the end he was like "and I've got news for you.. someone has done this already.. *link to macos x web site*" hehehe
[17:44:31] <fingolfin> <g>
[17:44:35] <fingolfin> it is so true ;)
[17:45:32] * fingolfin waits for a reply stating that "...but GNOME/KDE/[insert favorite desktop enviroment here] is already very good/much better"
[17:45:58] <matt0> I don't think gnome or kde are very good
[17:46:12] <matt0> they both kind of suck actually hehe
[17:46:27] <matt0> but .. *shrug* I've gotten used to gnome enough so that I am comfortable in it now
[17:46:46] <matt0> but as people keep saying, new users will have a hard time
[17:53:22] * wjp doesn't feel like doing anything even remotely useful tonight
[17:53:26] <wjp> time for some Diablo2 :-)
[17:53:38] <matt0> no, not the addiction!
[17:53:50] <wjp> I'm not addicted! I can stop anytime I want too!
[17:53:54] <wjp> really! ;-)
[17:54:00] <wjp> s/too/to/
[17:54:17] <fingolfin> yeah I can stop, too
[17:54:19] <fingolfin> well
[17:54:22] <fingolfin> but I donīt want to!
[17:54:30] <wjp> exactly ;-)
[17:54:34] <fingolfin> (that is what my mother is saying about smoking... ;)
[17:54:45] <matt0> hehe
[17:55:23] <fingolfin> matt0: so.. you donīt have LOD, right? hrm
[17:55:28] <wjp> hmm, I think I'm going to do some 'research' first
[17:55:35] <matt0> right ... I played heavily until lod
[17:55:41] <matt0> then I found it surprisingly easy to walk away hehe
[17:55:52] <fingolfin> wjp: erhm... what exactly? ;) memorize all runewords? ;)
[17:56:01] <wjp> yeah, something like that :-)
[17:56:15] <fingolfin> matt0: well, I played D2 at the beginning... then not for 4 month or so, then I begun again in june or so
[17:56:30] <wjp> that sounds very familiar...
[17:56:37] <wjp> only I started again in july
[17:57:19] <matt0> yeah I gave it up at the beginning of the year, then started playing again heavily, then quit again hehe
[17:57:29] <matt0> that reminds me, I need to refresh my characters
[17:57:46] <wjp> I lost mine :/
[17:58:03] <wjp> (not that my Bnet characters were above clvl 10 or anything...)
[17:59:29] <matt0> level 10 eh? hehe
[18:00:04] <wjp> ping with my old ISP was always above 500ms, and often above 1s, so I didn't really play much :-)
[18:00:13] <matt0> level 10 eh? hehe
[18:00:14] <matt0> oops
[18:00:24] <matt0> your old isp ruled
[18:00:43] <wjp> yeah :-)
[18:04:40] <wjp> enough 'research' for now... see you later
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[19:12:37] <Colourless> damn, gone for 4 hours wiout knowing it
[19:13:09] <wjp> oops :-)
[19:57:34] <wjp> brb, rebooting
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[20:00:58] <wjp> wow... new kernel works already
[20:01:10] <Colourless> wb
[20:01:16] <wjp> thx
[20:10:53] <wjp> rebooting my gateway... brb (hopefully :-) )
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[20:13:22] <Fingolfin> argh
[20:13:26] <Fingolfin> the counters are bad again
[20:13:27] <Colourless> yes?
[20:13:36] <Fingolfin> so it is not me after all, but a bug in the code or something
[20:13:38] <Fingolfin> <sigh>
[20:13:56] <Fingolfin> I just don't understand it...
[20:13:58] <Fingolfin> the web page counters
[20:14:08] <Fingolfin> they all look like they got reset to 0 and then started counting up again, but why?????
[20:16:28] <chimera|wookin> was gibt's?
[20:17:10] <Fingolfin> I'd think it was an overflow bug, but why should a number of about 4000 overflow?!??!
[20:23:20] <Fingolfin> values fixed again; furthermore, I added a slight fix to my counter code, I hope that solves the problem :/
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[20:46:14] <wjp> hmm, that went a lot less smooth
[20:46:52] <Colourless> wb
[20:46:57] <wjp> thanks
[20:47:44] <Fingolfin> hi
[20:54:29] * wjp decided to do something productive after all... reading up on iptables firewalling / NAT
[21:03:15] <Fingolfin> are we supposed to believe that?
[21:04:07] <chimera|wookin> Fingolfin: I'm not sure
[21:06:00] <wjp> ok ok... so it turned out my ping was ~500ms all the time... :-)
[21:06:46] <Fingolfin> ah! ;)
[21:08:31] <chimera|wookin> hehe
[21:15:27] <Fingolfin> anybody here know "Assassin's Apprentice" ?
[21:15:45] <Fingolfin> (The Farseer Trilogy, Book 1) by Robin Hobb
[21:16:22] * wjp doesn't
[21:17:46] <Fingolfin> wjp: it gets excellent ratings on amazon.de/amazon.com ...
[21:17:55] <Fingolfin> it is cheap, too, i'll get the first volume
[21:18:03] <Fingolfin> then I can tell you how I liked it ;)
[21:18:58] <wjp> :-)
[21:19:32] <wjp> hmm, yeah, pretty cheap
[21:19:48] <wjp> 20 NLG paperback, 40 hardback
[21:20:04] <wjp> (but the hardback is 'not available')
[21:20:28] <Fingolfin> I prefer paperback usually anyway, cause I like to carry my books around ;)
[21:20:46] <wjp> :-)
[21:26:57] * Colourless has got to go
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[23:05:48] <wjp> hi
[23:05:50] <Fingolfin> lo
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[23:21:39] <wjp> hi
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[23:31:57] <Fingolfin> hm, you might already know this, but I am impressed anyway: http://www.naturalvoices.att.com/demos/index.html
[23:34:08] * wjp downloads one of those
[23:36:13] * wjp is impressed too
[23:37:19] <Fingolfin> yeah
[23:37:25] <Fingolfin> did you try the interactive demo?
[23:37:36] <Fingolfin> it is not completly as nice, but still much better than all I heard before
[23:37:56] <wjp> yeah, it pronounced "This is just a small test sentence" quite well :-)
[23:38:27] <Fingolfin> just copy some text, even from the web page there ;)
[23:40:30] <wjp> it's not at all slow too. I instantly get those interactive waves back
[23:42:46] <wjp> hmm... Code Red is supposed to start again in 15 minutes...
[23:42:50] <wjp> I wonder what'll happen
[23:43:24] <wjp> if there's still 200K machines infected it could be ... interesting
[23:48:29] <chimera|wookin> wow!
[23:48:45] <chimera|wookin> I put in "Would you like to play a game?" and it sounds excellent!
[23:49:02] <wjp> s/a game/The Game/ ;-)
[23:49:27] * wjp shoots Chuckles
[23:49:44] <wjp> we could full-speech-ify Exult! :-)
[23:49:56] <Fingolfin> yay! ;)
[23:50:04] <chimera|wookin> hahaha
[23:51:35] <chimera|wookin> some words it simply can't do very well