#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 3 Feb 2002 (GMT)

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[00:06:18] <-- sbx has left IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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[01:05:26] <sbx> Darke: your here again already? :-)
[01:06:00] <Darke> Hi. <grin> Indeed. It's sunday, so I'm up early again.
[01:06:36] <sbx> How about a new weekly topic?
[01:06:45] <Darke> Suggestions? <grin>
[01:07:13] <sbx> Maybe 'Exult! An engine to play Ultima7: Black Gate and Serpent Isle! Exult!'.
[01:07:57] * Darke threatens sbx with a dueling trout.
[01:09:28] * sbx wonders if thats a topic suggestion.
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[02:45:38] * sbx gives Darke a carrot.
[02:47:13] * Darke bows and nibbles on the carrot. "Thanks. X died on me for some reason. <grin>"
[02:48:15] * sbx uses an 'until' loop to keep X up in case his window manager dies.
[02:50:16] * Darke just uses 'startx', X is just a blackbox to him. <grin>
[02:51:10] <sbx> Heey, my BlackBox is special.
[02:51:14] * sbx grins.
[02:52:13] * Darke dismissivepawwaves. Bah! <grin>
[03:29:49] <sbx> 1 w4n+ 3Xu7+ 0n 4 Cr@y d00d!
[03:30:12] <sbx> hehe the strangeness of the forum never ends :)
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[03:31:18] <Dominus> hi guys
[03:31:33] <Dominus> you did break compile again
[03:31:36] <Dominus> NOT
[03:31:39] <Dominus> :-)
[03:31:49] <Darke> Hi Dominus. <grin> Deciding to spend some time not on the beach?
[03:31:57] <sbx> He can't help himself. :-)
[03:32:04] * sbx gives Dominus a little umbrella for his drink.
[03:32:17] <Dominus> yeah, after my gf and her daughter are both sunburnt I decided to surf a bit the net
[03:32:21] * Darke thinks Dominus is a little _too_ addicted to exult. <grin>
[03:33:12] <Dominus> so, when will the big breakage come (common/exult/pentagram)
[03:33:15] <Dominus> ?
[03:33:40] * Dominus hopes no one noticed his IP...
[03:34:18] <Darke> Hopefully within the next 24 hours or so. <grin> I'm currently considering updating the common tree myself with the conf/ and such from exult, so Fingolfin or whoever can just change things over and tell everyone. <grin>
[03:34:33] <Darke> Dominus: What? The aol.com bit? <grin>
[03:34:41] <Dominus> he he, exactly
[03:35:03] <Dominus> my mom's internet access
[03:35:40] * Dominus would pay horrible fees if he conected to his german host via phone :-)
[03:35:54] <Darke> Agreed. <grin>
[03:36:34] <Dominus> anyway, good luck with changing to common. I expect there will be no new snapshot the next few days... :-)
[03:36:57] <Dominus> see you next time
[03:37:01] <Dominus> bye
[03:37:04] <Darke> Bye.
[03:37:08] <sbx> bye
[03:37:09] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("got to play Exult now")
[03:37:37] * Darke doesn't think it'll be that difficult. The code is there and working. It's just a little bit of a juggling act. <grin>
[03:39:08] <sbx> Why would it break anything?
[03:46:15] <Darke> It requires everybun to check out the entire tree again. Plus making sure it works for both pentagram and exult could be interesting, since one uses automake, and the other doesn't. So things could get... interesting. <grin>
[03:46:55] <sbx> The pentagram people should use automake then.
[03:48:24] * Darke likes automake, for all it's faults. But others don't. If they want to use a non-automake solution, then they can. <grin>
[03:49:05] <sbx> What are it's faults? Besides requiring autoconf.
[03:52:22] * sbx is flooded.
[03:52:36] <sbx> Damn you lilo! Damn YOooouu!
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[03:56:01] * sbx coughs.
[04:11:37] * Darke grins, that was an interesting mess.
[04:14:25] <Darke> It requires autoconf/automake/libtool, and apparently a few other programs. It 'kind of' works under win32, so we need a non-autoconf makefile anyway. When it fails, and it apparently fails somewhat regularly, it apparently gives you somewhat vague error messages. Although I've not had any problems with it myself.
[04:18:11] <sbx> When you put it that way, it sounds bad. :-)
[04:18:20] <sbx> I however, don't use it much.
[04:20:38] <Darke> With all the programs I've installed requiring me to use automake files, which is a lot, since I comple almost everything I add to my system. I've had exactly 0% errors with it. It Just Works(tm) for me.
[04:24:26] * sbx agrees.
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[09:37:39] <V0|D> hello
[09:37:47] <V0|D> has any1 seen fingol recently?
[09:38:00] <sbx> ?seen Fingolfin
[09:38:00] <exultbot> fingolfin left IRC around Sun Feb 3 00:08:54 2002 (GMT) ("42")
[09:38:18] <V0|D> ahhhghg
[09:38:31] <V0|D> oh well, thanks sbx
[09:39:38] <sbx> exultbot has a few uses after all :)
[09:40:14] <V0|D> whats the command for running autogen.sh? is it just 'sh autogen.sh'?
[09:41:32] <sbx> sh, bash or 'chmod +x autogen.sh && ./autogen.sh'
[09:42:07] <V0|D> what do the && do?
[09:43:23] <sbx> Do the second command if the first has a successful return.
[09:43:32] <V0|D> k
[09:43:50] <sbx> bash also accepts ';' to seperate commands, but it will then do them all unconditionally
[09:44:28] <V0|D> i get this after running autogen.sh:
[09:44:29] <V0|D> usecode/ucxt/Makefile.am:16: deprecated feature: `head2data.test' overrides `head2data.test$(EXEEXT)'
[09:44:30] <V0|D> usecode/ucxt/Makefile.am:16: change your target to read `head2data.test$(EXEEXT)'
[09:45:32] * sbx glares at Darke.
[09:45:44] <V0|D> hehe
[09:46:08] <V0|D> it used to work for me, but then i followed a suggestion from fingolfin...
[09:47:44] * Darke can't reproduce the warning.
[09:50:49] <V0|D> i expect ive done something wrong, and i need to talk to fingolfin about it
[09:59:52] <V0|D> goodbye
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[11:15:21] * Darke bows, "Hi!"
[11:15:37] <Fingolfin> yo
[11:18:17] <sbx> hi
[11:18:34] <sbx> V0|D was looking for you
[11:23:41] <Fingolfin> hm, ok
[11:26:19] <Fingolfin> Darke: so, I will do the common switch over pretty soon
[11:26:27] <Fingolfin> everybody should commit last changes =)
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[12:20:29] <sbx> Darke
[12:20:35] <Darke> sbx: Yes.
[12:20:42] <sbx> Will you be ready in 5 hours?
[12:20:47] <sbx> give or take
[12:20:49] <sbx> :-)
[12:21:05] * Darke is ready now. <grin> He's not likely to actually be here in 5 hours, he has to be up early tomorrow.
[12:21:23] <sbx> Heh, me neither. I'm going to sleep. :P
[12:24:15] <Darke> A wise decision. <grin>
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[12:50:43] <wjp> hi
[12:56:15] * Darke bows, "Hi!"
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[14:17:58] <Fingolfin> rehi
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[14:18:17] <^miguel^-> rere :)
[14:19:13] <wjp> hi
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[14:28:52] <alongton> Here's an offer that the core developers can fight over.
[14:29:02] <Darke> Fingolfin: Good luck with the common merge tonight. <grin> Don't break anything _too_ badly, or else you'll be laying down a challenge that the rest of us won't be able to resist taking up. <grin>
[14:29:09] <Darke> alongton: Hmm?
[14:29:14] <alongton> I have a copy of Ultima VII (Boxed)
[14:29:32] <Fingolfin> now what?
[14:29:37] <alongton> that I'd like to offer to the one that you guys
[14:29:45] <alongton> think most deserves it.
[14:29:55] * Darke points at Jeff.
[14:30:05] <wjp> Jeff. Definitely
[14:30:17] <alongton> It includes the cloth map, but no manual (lost).
[14:30:26] <alongton> Otherwise, it's in good shape.
[14:30:52] * Darke doesn't think you'll get any arguements from the exult team on that one. <grin> At least any arguements will be in jest if they are made.
[14:30:52] <alongton> Well, that didn't take too long.
[14:31:14] <alongton> Any idea how I can get it to him?
[14:31:26] <alongton> If he want's to email me, tell him to feel free;
[14:31:30] <alongton> alongton@metamark.com
[14:31:32] * Fingolfin adds "Jeff", too
[14:32:06] * Darke is listening to the siren call of his bed, he must follow it. "Goodnight all. Again, luck with the merge Fingolfin, I'd love to stay and help, but I've got some annoying beaucrazy scheduled with the government in the morning. <ickfluff>"
[14:32:13] <alongton> Wait, I have his address from the Exult page...
[14:32:24] <wjp> Darke: night
[14:32:28] <Fingolfin> hehe
[14:32:31] <Fingolfin> cya Darke
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[15:52:28] <genn> hello
[15:52:51] <wjp> hi
[15:53:07] <genn> cool someone alive! :)
[15:53:33] <genn> i wonder about a few things concerning exult...can i ask them here??
[15:53:43] <wjp> sure
[15:54:12] <genn> i use it on linux and i thought there is sound in the si intro...
[15:54:17] <genn> but i don't hear anything
[15:55:27] <wjp> what version of exult are you using?
[15:55:33] <genn> 0.96beta1
[15:55:46] <genn> and SDL-1.2.3
[15:57:04] <wjp> hm, I don't get any sound in the intro either
[15:57:30] <genn> but i'm almost sure it's there...speech even
[15:57:48] <wjp> yes, there's sound in the original
[15:57:54] <genn> but that's not really a problem of course
[15:58:15] <genn> it's more annoying that my mouse behaves strange on the bottom of the screen
[15:58:39] <genn> it sort of jumps up if i hit the bottom
[15:59:10] <wjp> what exactly do you mean?
[15:59:28] <genn> and if i pass the right border of the screen the mouse pointer is moved to the middle (so it seems)
[16:00:07] <genn> if you move your mouse pointer 'across' the bottom/right of the screen
[16:00:54] <wjp> in fullscreen or in windowed mode?
[16:00:59] <genn> fullscreen
[16:02:15] <wjp> what resolution are you using?
[16:03:54] <genn> uhm..320x200 but my x server refuses that res and so it uses another one...i'll check which
[16:04:14] <wjp> just tried. I don't have any mouse problems in fullscreen
[16:05:21] <genn> hrm..maybe it's that exult didn't realize it's running in 640x480 while i configured 320x200..
[16:06:10] <wjp> I tried 400x300 (which I don't have in my XF86Config) too
[16:06:35] <genn> hum now i notice it only happens in the menu screen...not in the game (at least not in si)
[16:11:46] <genn> hrm you're dutch aren't you?
[16:12:04] * wjp nods
[16:12:19] <genn> goh ik ook...da's handig
[16:12:23] <wjp> :-)
[16:20:56] <genn> enne...waar staan die fx bestanden? (prdownload...doet het nie)
[16:22:40] <wjp> via onze d/l pagina is de enige manier, eigenlijk. Hij doet het wel weer over een paar minuten als het goed is
[16:23:09] <genn> ow k
[16:23:12] <wjp> sterker nog, voor mij werken ze allebei op het moment
[16:24:35] <genn> hm typisch..voor mij nog steeds niet
[16:26:12] <genn> sjee..met lynx doen ze het wel maar met mozilla niet
[16:26:38] * wjp probeerde het net met wget
[16:27:11] <genn> dat moet ik nog ff ergens vandaan plukken
[16:28:36] <genn> heb je voor midi timidity en kmid nodig of een van beide?
[16:28:47] <wjp> een van beide
[16:29:00] <wjp> timidity klinkt het best, schijnt
[16:30:24] <genn> k die moet ik hebben dus
[16:37:48] <genn> njah bedankt voor je info iig...ik ga ff checken of die fx packs werken
[16:37:59] <wjp> k
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[16:45:39] <wjp> hi again
[16:45:46] <Fingolfin> yo
[16:46:19] <Fingolfin> it is annoying when you work a for some time on a "bug" in your app, only to discover in the end that it's the OS which is not implementing an advertised feature. <grrrr>
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[16:46:36] <wjp> ugh :/
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[17:02:52] <wjp> hm, any idea what the proper (english) term for a word like "first", "second", "third" is?
[17:05:12] <Fingolfin> according to my Oxford ALD it depends on the context, i.e. which meaning of first you want
[17:05:36] <Fingolfin> it can be a determiner, an adverb, or an pronoun
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[17:08:08] <Fingolfin> or maybe "numeral" ?
[17:08:10] <wjp> hm.. what you call an intrinsic that seems to transform 1 into '1st', 2 into '2nd', 3 into '3rd', etc...
[17:08:22] <Fingolfin> hm
[17:09:04] <Fingolfin> you should ask one of the native english speaker I'd say =)
[17:09:25] <Fingolfin> there are plenty on this network I believe, you chould go to one of the big channels and ask there
[17:09:28] <wjp> it could be "ordinal number", or something
[17:09:41] <Fingolfin> hm yeah
[17:09:45] <wjp> I'll name it 'ordinal', for now
[17:09:48] <Fingolfin> number_to_ordinal?
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[17:10:07] <wjp> I wonder why they didn't just do it in usecode
[17:10:24] <wjp> it has sufficient string functions...
[17:10:58] * wjp wonders if it returns "1st" or "first"
[17:11:42] <wjp> any idea? it's in the divination function ("It is currently Earthday, the xxx day of the month Stonemark")
[17:13:11] <wjp> eh? now I'm confused... this same intrinsic is used for "I have been in Pagan for roughly xxx days."
[17:14:33] <Fingolfin> hm
[17:14:54] <Fingolfin> what text did it give in the original, anyway?
[17:15:05] <Fingolfin> just the number?
[17:15:09] <wjp> can't remember
[17:15:55] <wjp> hmm... it could just be "number to string"
[17:16:52] <wjp> U7 just concatenated strings and numbers together, but I'm not sure about U8
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[17:27:52] <Fingolfin> I am going to do the exult switch over to using common in a few mins
[17:48:57] --- wjp|dinner is now known as wjp
[17:49:41] <Fingolfin> switch over done
[17:49:53] <Fingolfin> fresh CO working, I am now compiling
[17:51:13] <wjp> checking out...
[17:52:03] <wjp> hm
[17:52:21] <wjp> cvs server: existing repository /cvsroot/exult/exult/conf does not match /cvsroot/exult/common/conf
[17:52:21] <wjp> cvs server: ignoring module conf
[17:52:38] <Fingolfin> tsk
[17:52:55] <Fingolfin> hm, I have -dP in my .cvsrc file
[17:53:03] <Fingolfin> i.e. I prune empty dirs
[17:53:14] <Fingolfin> can you please try with these options again?
[17:54:09] <Fingolfin> thinking on it, maybe it wasn't such a good idea to move all to module common; maybe we should just have mirrored the stuff directly from exult into pentagram, hrrrrmmm
[17:54:15] <Fingolfin> in that case, this could still be done
[17:54:57] <Fingolfin> hm, usecode/ucxt/Makefile.am is weird
[17:55:09] <wjp> where does that -dP go in the co line?
[17:56:06] <Fingolfin> co -dP exult
[17:56:29] <wjp> hm, sure it isn't -P ?
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[17:56:56] <Fingolfin> that is fine, too
[17:57:01] <EvilMech> hi hi
[17:57:03] <Fingolfin> -dP == -d -P
[17:57:04] <Fingolfin> yo
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[17:57:08] <wjp> hi
[17:57:40] * _Kreed_ wished this chan wasn't on some obscure network
[17:57:50] <wjp> opn really isn't that obscure :-)
[17:57:50] <Fingolfin> "obscure" ???
[17:58:23] <_Kreed_> it is .. for me at least
[18:00:43] <wjp> ok, everything seems to work now
[18:07:55] <Fingolfin> good
[18:12:38] <_Kreed_> gotta love this turn-based-chatting thing
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[18:55:25] <wjp|away> (back in an hour)
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[20:25:17] <wjp> I was thinking... what would it take to be able to run configure from a different directory than the source dir.... (in the current pentagram build system). Autoconf-ing it, obviously, but what else?
[20:26:42] <Fingolfin> autoconf really hasn't to much to do with it
[20:27:23] <wjp> true, but it does automate putting the makefiles in a different place
[20:28:03] <Fingolfin> actually, all it does is to generate Makefile from Makefile.in, performing substitutions
[20:28:30] <Fingolfin> and the substitions can take into consideration the relative path between the build dir and the source dir
[20:28:41] <wjp> yeah
[20:29:31] <Fingolfin> so, what we should do is: introduce some vars like $(srcdir) and $(top_srcdir) which we use to address source files
[20:29:44] <Fingolfin> while build files (.d, .rules, .o etc.) wouldn't use those
[20:30:05] <wjp> autoconf has a SRCDIR
[20:30:09] <Fingolfin> we can do most of this w/o autoconf; what autoconf adds is that it can subsitute nice values for those vars
[20:30:29] <wjp> yes, and it helps with some other cross-platform issues
[20:30:51] <Fingolfin> actually, autoconf/automake use srcdir and top_srcdir in their Makefiles
[20:30:56] <Fingolfin> sure
[20:31:15] <Fingolfin> I didn't mean to say autoconf has no other use; I just meant for this specific problem, this is "all" autoconf does to help us
[20:31:23] * wjp nods
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[21:19:20] <sbx> hmm
[21:19:22] <sbx> matto!!!!
[21:48:50] <matto> sbx!!!!!!
[21:56:40] <sbx> :-)
[21:56:45] * sbx dumps all the exclamation points into a bucket for storage.
[23:25:35] <matto> oh no
[23:25:41] <matto> you've let the rabbit get to you, haven't you..