#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 3 Feb 2015 (GMT)

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[05:45:50] <i30817> Dominus: Dominus> Uargh, i3... Is right, FMOpl hangs on the beginning song end. How unfortunate ;(
[05:46:31] <i30817> it's so so bad if you consider that it gets fixed once another song starts again. It only gets weird if you keep still
[05:52:39] <Dominus> Sorry for always forgetting your nickname ;)
[05:53:27] <Dominus> I'll need to do some regression tests once I'm back home
[05:53:53] <Dominus> Can't imagine that it ALWAYS hung there
[05:57:42] <i30817> ugh it's really random i think, i just tried it with fopl and without the sfx pack enabled and it didn't
[05:58:08] <i30817> or with it for that matter, going to tmp uninstall it now to see
[05:59:03] <i30817> it's good to have exult running again, i should fix the dosbox ppa too
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[06:05:06] <i30817> Have you noticed how the audio tab changes the the selected driver even if it fails to set it in the code
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[06:06:40] <i30817> i think that's a common source of errors, people thinking they set something when something else actually fellthrough
[06:07:41] <Dominus> Yes, next time you open the audio gump the correct value should be shown
[06:08:21] <Dominus> We'd need to update the audio driver right away and display the error message
[06:09:09] <Dominus> My setup here is without the sfx. So it definitely hangs without
[06:11:31] <Dominus> Hmm, we could definitely show some error message on screen for when a driver failed
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[06:18:34] <i30817> ok confirmed, with digital SFX on it doesn't happen, even with the FMOPL driver, with digital SFX off on it doesn't happen, even with the FMOPL driver - only if you remove entirely the pack; sudo apt-get remove exult-audiopack in my case
[06:18:36] <i30817> then:
[06:18:37] <i30817> 1: the music actually sounds different, so just having the sound pack _always_ enables digital music regardless of your driver shennigans (only tried with FMOPL).
[06:18:39] <i30817> 2: i never realized this despite using exult for years! The driver button still being usable may have deceived me
[06:19:41] <i30817> you need to not have the digital music pack and the FMOPL driver to reproduced (which automatically leads to disabled SFX, probably due to not being able to play both at the same time)
[06:22:15] <i30817> at first i was thinking that it may have been the SFX from birds chirping etc, which cleared the audio channel from the buggy FMOPL player, but since the music is actually different maybe that's irrelevant to why it doesn't happen with digital pack
[06:22:43] <i30817> if it was never using the FMOPL player anyway
[06:23:59] <i30817> maybe the button gump should have a disabled visual state?
[06:24:32] <i30817> so that if you tried something that doesn't work you could see it and the green ok button be disabled too
[06:24:40] <i30817> to force you to notice
[06:25:40] <i30817> could you please open bugs for these dominus?
[06:37:05] <i30817> Also it would be nice if text inside buttons could be set to autoadjust size to the size of the button ;)
[06:37:41] <i30817> text size that is, instead of making the button take the size of the text, do it the other way around, make the text take the size of the button
[06:44:01] <Dominus> I30817: could you open bugs? I'm not at home and on a mobile device it is hard to test out the stuff
[06:45:25] <Dominus> For example I have no clear idea what you mean with installed digital pack enabling digitsl driver
[06:45:34] <Dominus> That sounds weird
[06:46:55] <Dominus> Are you sure that's not happening due to the apt-get for the music pack? (Which you made)
[06:47:30] <Dominus> Best test with manually putting the audio files where they belong
[07:02:09] <i30817> i'm sure, apt-get remove removes the package and all installed files
[07:02:10] <i30817> what i mean is that exult must not have the files at all in it's path for this hang to happen
[07:02:23] <i30817> because it's not using the FMOPL driver if it has them!
[07:04:26] <i30817> i didn't touch the digital music code
[07:04:42] <i30817> none of my patches touch it
[07:04:56] <Dominus> Are you sure you are not touching the cfg?
[07:05:31] <Dominus> Because fmopl should work even with digital music files/sfx installed
[07:05:46] <Dominus> That is why it seems so weird...
[07:06:22] <i30817> nope. There is something in the fluidsynth driver that puts in a fixed default path to the soundfonts but only if the option is empty, and doesn't save anything
[07:06:57] <i30817> you can test it yourself, compare the songs with and without and see if they hang or not
[07:08:11] <Dominus> Now wait a moment. Is it still using fmopl with the music/sfx files installed or not?
[07:08:26] <i30817> no
[07:08:35] <i30817> so the bug didn't happen
[07:08:43] <Dominus> Because it is fairly obvious whether it uses the digital music or fmopl
[07:09:14] <Dominus> Since the digital music is recordings of the mt32 music
[07:10:12] <Dominus> If it never uses fmopl that is a different bug which I can not test for the next couple of hours
[07:10:51] <i30817> no it uses it, but only if there is no digital sound pack, that is, it's just a confusing menu
[07:11:26] <i30817> there are all these options that aren't doing anything (at least i think it's all of them, maybe some drivers actually disable the ogg music)
[07:11:34] <Dominus> Is it the sfx or the digital music files that disable fmopl?
[07:11:46] <i30817> digital music
[07:12:06] <Dominus> Ah, you have to disable digital music in the gump then
[07:12:35] <Dominus> When that is enabled of course all others don't work
[07:12:43] <i30817> oh wow, i cant believe i missed that
[07:12:58] <i30817> maybe it could hide the drivers button if enable
[07:13:04] <i30817> enabled.
[07:13:18] <Dominus> Which should be reflected in the gump, true, but I think there was a reason why we left the drivers shown
[07:13:57] <Dominus> Probably buried in the logs
[07:14:14] <Dominus> Maybe malignant_manor remembers
[07:14:17] <i30817> i guess now i can test if the digital SFX influences anything on the FMOPL tonal bug
[07:14:29] <Dominus> ;)
[07:16:17] <i30817> nope doesn't matter, the birds chip with the tonallllllllllllllllll bug
[07:16:38] <i30817> it's really strange
[07:21:39] <i30817> so the bugs:
[07:21:40] <i30817> 1: FMOPL driver has bug on intro where end of music continues forever
[07:21:42] <i30817> 2: RFE: gump disabled visual state used for failing configurations of option buttons and to disable the ok button in these cases so the user knows something didn't work
[07:21:43] <i30817> 3: RFE: please disable the driver option button if the digital music is enabled
[07:21:45] <i30817> 4: RFE: please adjust the size of text inside of buttons instead of the size of the button. Or at least widen the audio options menu so 'Timidity' doesn't overflow the options gump
[07:21:46] <i30817> anything else?
[07:36:27] <Dominus> I think that sounds "right"
[07:36:40] <Dominus> So the audio gump should do:
[07:37:17] <Dominus> - check whether digital audio files are there, if not don't display that button
[07:37:44] <Dominus> - if available display digital music button but set it to disabled
[07:38:08] <Dominus> - if enabled, hide the driver buttons
[07:38:21] <Dominus> That sounds like a task
[07:38:45] <i30817> Yeah. I reconsidered the resize text inside buttons idea
[07:39:33] <i30817> there are only really two overflowing that i can see and they werent noticed because they are platform specific i think : FluidSynth and UnixSeqDevice
[07:40:19] <i30817> I also gave a alternative to the 2nd RFE above.
[07:40:20] <i30817> You could test the requisites for each 'external' driver at startup
[07:40:33] <i30817> and simply hide the options you know are never going to work
[07:40:54] <i30817> that might be more elegant than a new option to the classical gumps
[07:41:42] <Dominus> The external drivers that can't be used are not displayed already
[07:42:18] <i30817> do you test for data files
[07:42:46] <i30817> i'm pretty sure that for example, the mt32emu driver is shown even if the data files are not where exult expects them
[07:42:54] <i30817> or the fluidsynth
[07:43:03] <i30817> so those will never work and will fallback to FMOPL
[07:43:29] <i30817> some of the checks need to be at runtime, not just compile time ifdefs
[07:43:43] <i30817> just having the library in the system is often not enough
[07:44:49] <i30817> I find it pretty strange that exult traps CONTROL+C, which is how i usually kill console running programs instead of bothering with alt+f4
[07:45:03] <i30817> does it even need that
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[07:46:08] <Dominus> In case of mt32, yes it should check for the roms
[07:46:43] <Dominus> In case of everything else, no, testing for everything is not feasible
[07:46:49] <Malignant_Manor> Dominus: , i30817 , déjà vu. http://log.usecode.org/exultlog.php?log=8Mar2013
[07:47:20] <Dominus> Thanks malignant_Manor ;)
[07:47:57] <i30817> fluidsynth, and timidity too probably
[07:49:14] <i30817> unixseqdevice used to crash on ubuntu, now it just falls back to FMOPL
[07:49:37] <i30817> i'm pretty sure it's a nop now because marzo noticed that crashes are maybe bad :P
[07:49:55] <Malignant_Manor> Bird background sfx is done by the sfx packs unless digital or MT-32 compatible (I think those are the only two)
[07:49:56] <i30817> so if it is it shouldn't even be there at all
[07:51:06] <Malignant_Manor> I mentioned many times about being able to disable background sfx but I probably never coded it.
[07:51:26] <i30817> ah only background sfx?
[07:51:50] <i30817> I have a hacky patch to disable the 3 combat tunes on the ppa
[07:52:26] <i30817> that is what annoys me on long running rpgs, all those combats interrupting the mood
[07:52:49] <Malignant_Manor> Well, the background sfx are god awful when imitated. The chips and stuff aren't great in MT-32 either.
[07:53:42] <i30817> there is a background sfx ogg track, which prevents running another song on top?
[07:53:59] <i30817> that's strange too
[07:54:53] <Dominus> I30817: yes that's original ;)
[07:54:59] <Malignant_Manor> The track is the song
[07:56:43] <Malignant_Manor> I think Exult won the Ultima Codex Fan Project of the Year but the poll is missing. It was really close to Nuvie (which was ahead earlier).
[07:57:45] <i30817> so there isn't a option for concurrent digital music and SFX ?
[07:57:56] <i30817> I'm sure that works in some configs
[07:58:22] <i30817> maybe i'm imagining it
[07:58:43] <Malignant_Manor> Digital music and sfx work at the same time
[07:59:09] <Malignant_Manor> the background sfx will use the ogg tracks
[08:00:09] <i30817> so there is no problem using two different digital tracks at the same time in exult? Do you have your own mixer then
[08:00:25] <i30817> Doh of course you do, i remember it
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[08:01:44] <Malignant_Manor> The game never did play two tracks at once. The background track was the only one that played.
[08:02:05] <i30817> the original right
[08:03:45] <i30817> i feel like the ogg nature track is different from the FMOPL chirps besides quality, like the ogg is a defined size that you can feel looping while the chirps are more random
[08:03:50] <i30817> is this right?
[08:04:58] <i30817> maybe some judicious randomization from a limited set of starts of the nature track would make it feel more random
[08:04:59] <Malignant_Manor> FNOPL uses Digital SFX
[08:05:09] <Malignant_Manor> >>FMOPL
[08:05:10] <i30817> for ogg
[08:05:47] <i30817> i prefer more random sounds
[08:05:57] <Malignant_Manor> FMOPL would use the ogg tracks for it if digital music is selected
[08:06:21] <Malignant_Manor> (and it has the track)
[08:07:35] <i30817> well that's just a strange division of responsibilities, i'm sure that there is a O.O astronaut screaming somewhere
[08:08:27] <i30817> you want the FMOPL driver to use parts of the ogg track instead of whatever it uses now
[08:09:21] <i30817> so that the digital music enabled and SFX enabled would be high quality through without the obvious looping from the ogg nature track?
[08:09:22] <Malignant_Manor> It should play the track.
[08:09:59] <Malignant_Manor> Digital music will play the track no matter if sfx is enabled or not.
[08:10:21] <i30817> well that was wierd, i mean object oriented design astronaut
[08:11:00] <Malignant_Manor> How hard is it to understand Digital music plays digital music?
[08:11:33] <i30817> ok but, the nature track doesn't feel like music
[08:12:06] <i30817> it feels like sound effects
[08:12:08] <Malignant_Manor> What's called background sfx is a music track.
[08:13:05] <i30817> even on the FMOPL driver? That is what i want to know, if the FMOPL drive sounds are more random than the ogg background sfx
[08:13:14] <i30817> which they feel like to me
[08:13:28] <i30817> with digital music turned off ofc
[08:14:51] <Malignant_Manor> If digital music is turned off and it is not a MT-32 compatible driver, then it uses the sfx pack to simulate the background tracks somewhat.
[08:15:47] <i30817> And without the ogg pack at all?
[08:16:14] <Malignant_Manor> Digital music turned off means no ogg tracks get played.
[08:17:12] <i30817> without the files. It is probably nostalgia, but i felt that the original U7 had more random ambient sounds that didn't recognizably loop. I haven't played it in years mind you
[08:18:13] <Malignant_Manor> Well, I'm off to bed. It's 2:18 here.
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[08:19:03] <i30817> Off-topic: http://whalenoughtstudios.com/global/img/ScalingResolutions.gif
[08:19:29] <i30817> serpent in the staglands is going to be awesome for Darklands, BG1 and ultima fans
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[18:41:56] <Dominus> Wjp, marzo, malignant_manor: http://ultimacodex.com/2015/02/exult-the-2014-fan-project-of-the-year/
[18:42:35] <Dominus> I'm supposed to collect the mail addresses of anyone of the team wanting to collect a prize ;)
[18:42:40] <wjp> cool
[18:43:47] <Dominus> And especially the last couple of years us four, along with Jeff are the only ones who have done anything... ;)
[18:44:42] <Dominus> But I wrote to the mailing list as well for the other devs, but it will probably bounce, since I've likely used the wrong address to send from ;)
[18:50:24] <Dominus> Hmm, wjp, do you have moderator powers over the ml?
[18:50:53] <Dominus> My message is being held back because it's not from a member of the ml ;)
[18:56:49] <wjp> hm, I don't think so
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