#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 3 Jan 2003 (GMT)

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[00:40:52] <ShadwChsr> hi
[00:41:59] <Kirben> Hi
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[05:55:01] <ShadwChsr> Hail exultians
[05:55:47] * DarkeZzz exults in his sleep!
[05:55:55] <ShadwChsr> hmmm
[05:55:58] <ShadwChsr> he's hiding ;)
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[05:56:42] <ShadwChsr> see! see!
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[08:21:35] <wjp> hi
[08:22:03] * wjp wonders what Darke is doing under a couch
[08:22:07] <DarkeUnderCouch> Hi!
[08:22:15] * DarkeUnderCouch wriggles out from under the couch and looks innocent.
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[08:38:26] * wjp wonders what he's doing at work
[08:38:37] <wjp> there's hardly anybody here
[08:40:04] * Darke nods. Apparently been the same at the uni I occasionally work at too. *grin*
[08:42:38] <ShadwChsr> party recuperation day #2?
[08:42:53] <ShadwChsr> or would that be #3 - saturday?
[08:45:12] <wjp> they're probably extending the vacation until monday
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[09:32:07] <wjp> hm, our Makefile is missing an install target
[09:32:18] <wjp> um, s/our/pentagram's/
[09:33:04] <Darke> Not too much of a problem, since I don't think anyone's ever tried to install it. *grin*
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[13:53:08] <Darke> Hello, great and uncoloured one!
[13:56:53] <Colourless> hi
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[14:18:11] * Jett admits he's not all that sure what happened there. *grin*
[14:18:29] <Colourless> you died and came back to life obviously
[14:19:56] * Jett ponders. Good enough an explanation as any I suppose. *shrug*
[14:22:42] <Colourless> heh, funny. EA has finally killed the Ultima 1 remake, but still, Exult remains totally ignored
[14:24:23] <Colourless> this just puzzles me, but it bodes well for pentagram none the less
[14:25:44] * Jett nods and thinks everything about that is insane.
[14:26:22] <Jett> Though, IIRC, he eventually changed the name due to sheer lack of response and uncertainty, rather then an actually cease and desist notice from EA, so *shrug* who knows what this means.
[14:26:53] <Colourless> yeah EA was obviously being uncooperative
[14:27:12] <Colourless> of course there is no obligation for EA to actually be cooperative
[14:31:44] * Jett thinks what EA that is trying to sit on the fence deliberately. If they say "no" then suddenly almost all of the fan projects will cease. Thus pretty much dooming the ultima name and it's intrinsic value. And EA can't really say 'yes', since to their brilliant business geniuses that'd be dooming their lovely, valuable name to become public domain! *gasp!*
[14:33:54] <Colourless> my opinion, EA was mostly just delaying. They were never going to say yes. They were just taking a wait and see approach. If it seemed that the project was actually going to be completed, then i think the definitive no would have been said.
[14:34:19] <Colourless> as it stands, EA wins, and by not doing anything it seems
[14:35:01] * Jett nods. Yep.
[14:36:40] <Colourless> http://www.lssu.edu/banished/current/default.html :-)
[14:39:37] * Jett snickers!
[14:40:04] <Colourless> i expect that you will use at least one of those phrases each day till there are none left. deal?
[14:40:27] * Jett ponders, looking innocently evil. "Me? Surely not!"
[14:41:12] <Colourless> MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT
[14:41:17] <Colourless> see, it's that easy ;-)
[14:43:27] * Jett laughs!
[14:43:59] <Colourless> :-)
[15:00:08] * Jett thinks 'extreme' is a good word to banish. *grin*
[15:00:46] <Colourless> yes, and it needs to be done extremely quickly too
[15:00:55] <Colourless> what, me pun?
[15:02:03] <Jett> And you were thinking *I* was going to abuse this list? *grin*
[15:03:24] <Colourless> it was more of a suggestion than an expectation you realize
[15:03:56] <Colourless> or... a challenge
[15:06:40] * Jett sentences Colourless to 10 minutes in the punalty box!
[15:08:07] <Colourless> no... not the punalty box, but i guess, IT’S A GOOD THING
[15:08:54] <Jett> UNDISCLOSED, SECRET LOCATION *snork!* That's certainly one of the most brane damaged of them. *grin*
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[16:10:35] <Colourless> that banished word site is brilliant. all those words over so many years :-)
[16:10:51] * Jett nodnodnods and has been slowly reading through them himself. *grin*
[16:11:26] <Colourless> Overcrowded – We have not had a simply “crowded” prison here in Tennessee since 1982. I can grasp the concept of too much of a good thing, as “over-paid”; but I can’t comprehend too much of a bad thing, as “over-poor” or “over-hurt.” – James L. Knight, Nashville, Tenn.
[16:11:49] <Colourless> I personally had never really thought about that before
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[16:11:59] <Colourless> hi
[16:12:11] <wjp> hi
[16:12:43] * Jett nods. Lots of stuff used in people's standard vocabularies don't make sense when you try to analyse them. *grin*
[16:12:45] <Jett> Hi!
[16:13:21] <Colourless> "Self-Contained Contradictions" should be taught as bad english in all schools.
[16:15:05] <Colourless> Foreign Imports – “If these have had such a devastating impact on our economy, I shudder to think about the dire consequence of domestic imports.” – T. A. Quinn, Louisville, KY.
[16:15:40] <Colourless> the media, hours of entertainment for everyone, even if it's not intentional
[16:18:42] * Jett snickers.
[16:20:41] * Jett thinks the main problem is not that 'Self-Contained Contradictions' should be taught in schools, it's that they don't teach the english teachers such, so they don't know and thus are a bad influence by 'accident'.
[16:22:22] <matto|wookin> hi
[16:26:05] <matto|wookin> as long as we are pointing out oddities in language, let me bring up the subject of acronyms that are proceeded by the last word in the acronym, such as saying that one is running the MS-DOS operating system (the Micro Soft Disk Operating System Operating System)
[16:26:34] <matto|wookin> or saying you are using SD-RAM memory
[16:26:49] <Colourless> yes, that is a problem
[16:27:00] <Colourless> mostly pointed out by pedants to annoy the people around them :-)
[16:27:08] <matto|wookin> lol
[16:27:11] * Colourless looks innocent like a small black bunny
[16:27:23] * matto|wookin is beginning to see a pattern here... evil rabbits in this chatroom
[16:27:28] <Colourless> PIN number is another
[16:27:34] * Jett surprisngly enough says only 'MS-DOS' and 'SD-RAM'. But he's just lazy with his language anyway, not saying more then he has to unless he has to. *grin*
[16:27:39] <matto|wookin> haha.. ya.. pin number.. that is the one I was trying to think of
[16:27:40] <Jett> ATM Machine. *grin*
[16:27:42] <wjp> we say pin-code here
[16:27:50] <wjp> even weirder :-)
[16:27:55] <Colourless> yeah atms :-)
[16:28:01] <matto|wookin> ATM machine... ya...
[16:32:03] <matto|wookin> calling them just ATM's shouldn't be a problem, but I am not sure whether I should say "PI Number" or "PIN" hehehe
[16:32:23] <Colourless> PI Number = 3.1415926....
[16:32:31] <matto|wookin> hehe
[16:32:36] <matto|wookin> P.I. Number
[16:33:06] <Colourless> no, i'm not a private investigator, and i don't have a number
[16:33:54] <matto|wookin> oh, then perhaps you'd like to tell me what COM means from a technological standpoint?
[16:33:54] <Colourless> wjp: you realize that PIN code is hardly any better than PIN number. Personal identification number code doesn't make much sense either
[16:34:07] <wjp> that's why I said "even weirder" :-)
[16:34:17] <matto|wookin> yes.. he did say that, I took note :)
[16:34:18] <Colourless> component object model
[16:34:24] <Colourless> but you could use the COM model :-)
[16:34:31] <Colourless> which many people do
[16:34:50] <matto|wookin> no, COM is a serial port on your PC ...
[16:34:58] <matto|wookin> err... an extension for an MS-DOS executable
[16:35:05] <matto|wookin> actually it's a suffix for an internet domain name
[16:35:26] * matto|wookin has a pet peeve with 'COM' and how people can't come up with a different acronym for their stuff
[16:35:48] <Colourless> well then com means
[16:35:51] <Colourless> Command
[16:35:56] <Colourless> Commercial
[16:36:03] <Colourless> Component object Model
[16:36:10] <Colourless> any others you can think off your head?
[16:36:21] <Colourless> s/off/of off/
[16:36:23] <wjp> communication
[16:36:36] <Colourless> yes
[16:36:54] <Colourless> that can often be Comm
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[16:37:35] <Colourless> when makes it even better. 2 abbreviations for the same word
[16:37:37] <matto|wookin> I can't think of any others
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[16:38:16] <Colourless> neither can i, for now
[16:38:26] <matto|wookin> but I think that when you have an already overloaded acronym, you should avoid naming new things such that they have the same acronym
[16:41:28] <Colourless> Skull Flattening – “Used by Australia’s Minister for Employment, Education and Training in radio interviews in 1993 to describe cut-backs and job vacancies. The greatest insult since ‘downsizing.’” – Edwin Maher, South Frankston, Victoria, Australia
[16:41:31] <Colourless> ???
[16:41:38] <Colourless> this was said?
[16:42:03] <matto|wookin> haha
[16:42:09] <Jett> Erm... 1993. *ponder* No, can't say I heard it said.
[16:42:30] <matto|wookin> I just read on CNN that the guy who offerred the money up to hack the xbox is from Lindows.com
[16:43:11] <Colourless> i heard that too. i don't really care who offerred them the money
[16:43:38] * Jett mentally tries to juggle context to try and remember how much news he watched way back then. He thinks he would have heard it though.
[16:43:52] <Colourless> as it turns out, sounds like a bit of a marketting move
[16:44:06] * Colourless is cynical
[16:44:34] * Jett is cynical too and thinks it would be a *great* thing for lindows, no matter what the perspective.
[16:44:45] <matto|wookin> I am not too concerned about what his motives are... I am happy to see linux on the xbox
[16:44:56] <Colourless> Jett: agreed. I honestly think i would remember something as 'stupid' as that being said
[16:45:01] <matto|wookin> SEeing as I have an xbox and am looking to put linux on it soon hehe
[16:46:01] <Jett> X-box has a harddrive, is cheap, and... gee, it's a relatively standard platform, unlike the PC. I wonder how long until you see 'lindows inside' X-boxes being sold by modders, or by lindows itself?
[16:46:52] <Colourless> i would like to see linux on an unmodded xbox. linux on a modded xbox is one thing, but on an unmodded xbox... that would be quite the achievement
[16:47:05] * Jett seconds Colourless.
[16:48:18] <matto|wookin> I imagine that xbox titles are designed to work with some public/private key signing system... so to make a title work on an unmodded xbox, you'd have to brute-force the private key which could take an infinite amount of time.. at least, if I was desiging their system, that's how I would do it
[16:48:55] <Colourless> yes exactly. so to work on an unmodded box they will need to break the digital signing system
[16:49:31] <Jett> Which drags that DCMA stupidity into it.
[16:49:41] <matto|wookin> they should make a screensaver that people can run to crack the key in your computer's spare time <Grin>
[16:49:46] <Colourless> perhaps, perhaps not
[16:50:14] <Colourless> i don't know enough about the DCMA to comment
[16:50:28] <Colourless> s/DCMA/DMCA/
[16:50:40] <Colourless> (it's Digital Millenium Copyright Act)
[16:50:52] * Jett nods and just *gasp!* typoed!
[17:18:27] <wjp> bbl, dinner
[17:18:56] <Colourless> INFOMMERCIAL - "Is everyone else as tired of this as I am? If a commercial lasts for 30 minutes, it's a PROGRAM. It's also boring!" - John King, Oceanside, California.
[17:19:07] <Colourless> hehe
[17:19:40] * Jett grins.
[17:19:53] <Colourless> REALITY TV and REALITY-BASED TV -- "Banish the words, banish the shows, banish the people who came up with the idea for the shows, because there is nothing real about this form of television." - Mary Li, Toronto, Ontario.
[17:20:25] * Jett seconds, thirds and fourths!
[17:20:53] <Colourless> KILLER APP -- Used to describe an outstanding computer program. "If its function doesn't approximate that of the HAL 9000 computer from 2001, it's not really a killer application," says Peter Lynn of Toronto, Ontario.
[17:21:22] <matto|wookin> Spurred on by Jett's enthusiastic support, Colourless delves deeper into the dark blunders of society
[17:22:27] <Colourless> ah, there are just too many to copy-and-paste here :-)
[17:22:54] <Colourless> some final Redundancies
[17:22:58] <Colourless> POSSIBLE CHOICES - "No need to include the impossible choices, I'm sure."
[17:22:58] <Colourless> FOREWARN - "But if not, then warn after the fact."
[17:22:58] <Colourless> UNPRECEDENTED NEW - "Not to be confused with the unprecedented old one."
[17:22:58] <Colourless> RENAME IT SOMETHING ELSE - "Be sure not to rename it the same name."
[17:22:58] <Colourless> DELAY DUE TO AN EARLIER ACCIDENT - "Now in standard use…As distinguished from the delay caused by an accident yet to occur."
[17:23:49] * Jett snorks at the delay!
[17:24:57] * Jett thinks that parses really weirdly.
[17:28:13] <Colourless> this is just silly: http://www.lssu.edu/banished/regulations.html
[17:29:27] * Jett cackles!
[17:29:46] <Jett> The BAIT entry is... amusing. *grin*
[17:30:31] <Colourless> indeed :-)
[17:33:09] * Jett persists in trying to work out how you 'stimulate' a virgin. Holographics?
[17:33:23] * Jett eeps and quickly sweeps away a typoed 't'!
[17:33:29] * Colourless calls Dr Freud
[17:34:06] * Colourless also calls the Pentagram quotes files
[17:34:20] * Jett erms... umm... eep! What a time to make a typo!
[17:37:10] <Colourless> there, i am done
[17:39:05] * Jett thinks that's probably a better way of phrasing it when making a typo anyway, then the original phrasing he was going to use. *sigh*
[17:44:16] <Jett> You could have just referenced me by my 'official' nick rather then Jett, but no matter. *grin*
[17:44:29] * Jett considers making another addition to the file.
[17:53:58] * Jett ponders the mythical 'Unicorn Lure'. (Yes, I made *certain* there weren't any... unique typos in there.)
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[18:12:53] * Jett plots world domination whilst Colourless is distracted.
[18:16:13] <wjp> back
[18:16:22] <wjp> lol, nice typo :-)
[18:17:34] * Jett denies everything!
[18:20:42] * Jett has never, and has never before considered, 'stimulating' a virgin! He has, however, typoed it, which is what is causing the problem.
[18:23:32] * Jett decides to shutup before someone takes one of his straightlines and thwaps him over the head with it. Again. Sleep would probably be a Good Thing(tm) and would immunise him from doing such. Err... he hopes.
[18:24:03] * wjp wonders if Jett talks in his sleep ;-)
[18:25:53] <wjp> hm, I seem to remember thinking about adding an install target to our Makefile before getting distracted by work
[18:26:23] <Jett> Generally I try not too. Occasionally it happens because I go to sleep, before I *really* go to sleep, and people start chatting about something interesting. *grin*
[18:26:44] <wjp> :-)
[18:28:12] <wjp> a slightly automake-ish way of handling the install target would probably be nicest
[18:28:39] * wjp hmmms
[18:30:19] <wjp> stuff to install: binaries, data files, man pages... (anything else?)
[18:32:02] <Jett> Embarrising quotes file? Erm... forget I said that, it's better off not being installed. *grin*
[18:32:21] <wjp> :-)
[18:32:48] * Jett eartwitches. Config files are created automatically. We don't *exactly* have any kind of real documentation...
[18:33:09] <wjp> you don't generally install docs anyway, I think
[18:33:15] <wjp> (except man/info pages)
[18:33:57] <wjp> possible way:
[18:34:04] <wjp> LINSTALL := pentagram manpages
[18:34:14] <wjp> pentagram_FILES = pentagram
[18:34:25] <wjp> pentagram_DIR = $bindir
[18:34:41] <wjp> manpages_FILES = pentagram.6
[18:34:42] <Jett> Hmm... obviously used gentoo for too long then, I'm used the them dumping *every* concievable scrap of documentation for a program in it's own normally version tagged folder in /usr/share. *grin*
[18:35:21] <wjp> hm, true
[18:35:55] <Jett> /usr/share/doc to be specific. *grin*
[18:36:02] * wjp nods
[18:36:09] <wjp> RH tossed docs in there too
[18:36:40] <wjp> but in a .spec file you had to add docs separately
[18:36:53] <Jett> The quotes we're not installing normally get dumped in the 'data' dir anyway, so we don't have to worry about them now. Or ever actually since we're not actually installing them. *innocentwhistle*
[18:38:21] <wjp> gentoo does docs separately too
[18:38:30] <wjp> from the gimp ebuild:
[18:38:35] <wjp> dodoc AUTHORS COPYING ChangeLog* *MAINTAINERS README* TODO
[18:38:35] <wjp> dodoc docs/*.txt docs/*.ps docs/Wilber* docs/quick_reference.tar.gz
[18:38:36] <wjp> ...
[18:38:55] <Jett> Cool
[18:39:41] <wjp> there are (at least?) three things you need to know about a file to install: source, dest, perms
[18:41:33] <wjp> also need a convenient way to install multiple files into the same directory
[18:41:44] * Jett nods.
[18:41:47] <wjp> and some way of sanely handling subdirs
[18:42:05] <wjp> (automake had particular troubles with that last one :-) )
[18:43:36] <wjp> (1.6.1 even managed to have the behaviour of its subdir handling different for scripts and binaries :-) )
[18:43:58] * Jett snorks.
[18:45:01] * wjp has been reading through automake's docs a bit about the standard install dirs
[18:45:19] <wjp> there's quite a few of them :-)
[18:45:30] <wjp> bin, sbin, lib, libexec, include, com, share, man, info, ... :-)
[18:46:28] <Cless|Away> Jett, you volunteering?
[18:46:47] <Cless|Away> (to write docs)
[18:46:54] * Cless|Away is some minutes behind :-)
[18:46:57] <wjp> :-)
[18:48:28] * Jett has been planning too, but this compiler thing has been draining his time. He's also been distracted 'stimulating' virgins. *completelystraightfacednod*
[18:49:00] * Jett decides to go to sleep before he gives Colourless an excuse to update the quotes again. *grin* Night!
[18:49:08] <wjp> g'night :-)
[18:49:14] --- Jett is now known as DarkeZzz
[18:49:25] <wjp> actually, that last line is kind of quotable :-)
[18:49:53] * DarkeZzz looks dubious. Eh?
[18:50:03] <wjp> "* Jett decides to go to sleep before he gives Colourless an excuse to update the quotes again."
[18:50:18] * DarkeZzz ahhs.
[18:50:38] <wjp> one quote about stimulating virgins is enough :-)
[18:51:26] <Cless|Away> :-) night darke
[18:51:53] <DarkeZzz> Why? It's not as if it happens *regularly*!
[18:52:06] <DarkeZzz> Erm... err... I'm going now. *flee!*
[19:48:27] <Cless|Away> cya
[19:48:28] --- Cless|Away is now known as Colourless
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