#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 4 Aug 2003 (GMT)

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[03:17:10] <Cahaan> ? logs
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[04:53:22] <Cahaan> bug :|
[04:53:34] <Cahaan> Spark is blocked on his bed (he stands on it)
[04:58:08] <Cahaan> sleeping one hour fixed it though
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[13:52:51] <Zxcvb> anyone alive in here?
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[14:44:43] <jan_here> hi there
[14:46:01] <jan_here> can somebody tell me how the digital audio behaves regarding the "looping" option in exult?
[14:51:27] <Kirben> the looping option just controls when music should loop or not, regardless of music type used.
[14:52:46] <jan_here> well.. that has the desired effect if the songs just loop from beginning to end, but isn't it possible with midis to jump back to a certain position within the file and not just to the beginning?
[14:53:30] <Kirben> yes depends on the midi files.
[14:53:48] <jan_here> question is. do the Ultima midis do that?
[14:54:28] <Kirben> I don't know, maybe someone else can help...
[14:55:22] <jan_here> have you used exult 1.1 already? I think its really cool.
[14:55:50] <jan_here> yes, but who can? or maybe I should directly mail that to them?
[14:56:21] <Kirben> Yes some nice improvements in 1.1, especially option for digital music.
[14:56:27] <Kirben> try asking on forums.
[14:58:26] <jan_here> did it automatically find the music on your system? I had to add a <music_path> option to my config file (its not documented, i had to guess)
[14:59:11] <jan_here> btw: whatever happened to openprojects.net? there is only a notice that its for sale?
[15:00:23] <Kirben> Yes I just used default music path of data/music
[15:00:39] <Kirben> no idea
[15:02:06] <jan_here> under what system do you run exult?
[15:02:22] <Kirben> Windows XP
[15:02:59] <jan_here> I use Linux.. maybe some differences in the code there.
[15:03:33] <jan_here> is the intro for BG also a little fast in some places?
[15:03:53] <jan_here> (like where you hit the monitor, or the part where you walk into the Moongate are missing)
[15:07:01] <Kirben> No, speed of intro. is fine here with latest Exult.
[15:09:25] <jan_here> I recall that normally the intro would zoom out after the guardian disappears but it seems to be too fast here, like when I run U7 under DoS on a very fast computer.. hmm.. possibly problems with timing, or maybe I should run it fullscreen, havn't tried that yet.
[15:13:19] <jan_here> do you recall how forge of virtue fit into BG? It's too long since I played it, it just added this island on the map didn't it?
[15:13:44] <Kirben> Just compared original intro. and your right, there should be a close up of the moongate.
[15:13:54] <Kirben> Yes I think so.
[15:16:09] <jan_here> probably there is a closeup, it's just running too fast I guess.
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[21:50:28] <Dominus> hurry up, hide your powder kegs, Pyro-X is here...
[21:52:06] <SB-X> Don't worry we look somewhat familiar but I assure you I am nothing like him.
[21:52:30] <Dominus> I heard something like this before :-)
[21:52:39] <Dominus> how is it going with nuvie?
[21:52:43] <SB-X> Hey I think he ran around the corner!
[21:52:46] <SB-X> heh
[21:52:53] <SB-X> nuvie is great
[21:53:03] <SB-X> did you say there were some speed issues?
[21:54:21] <Dominus> nope, that was about dosbox and people on linux experiencing speed ossues with it (according to the logs of nuvie at some time)
[21:54:45] <SB-X> oh
[21:54:51] <SB-X> its really slow for me
[21:54:59] <SB-X> i may just be below the required system specs
[21:56:16] <Dominus> it runs great for me, along with the two underworlds
[21:56:36] <Dominus> but then I have a new system
[21:56:46] <SB-X> heh
[21:56:59] <SB-X> i boot to msdos if i want to play u6 or something
[21:57:10] <SB-X> but dosbox is ok if i dont want to reboot
[21:58:03] <Dominus> oh, I remember, I have an actual nuvie problem. I can'T run MD yet...
[21:58:59] <Dominus> oops, first let me check my cfg file...
[21:59:22] <SB-X> hrmm
[21:59:28] <SB-X> is it supposed to run MD? :)
[21:59:40] <Dominus> I thought so...
[21:59:44] <SB-X> actually i saw the screenshot but havnt tested it myself
[21:59:57] <SB-X> it would probably be the config
[22:00:01] <SB-X> or a bad install
[22:00:11] <SB-X> or a compressed install and nuvie wants uncompressed (or vice versa)
[22:01:04] <Dominus> hmm
[22:02:44] <Dominus> ha, got it. it refuses to run martian when it can't find the u6 files...
[22:02:55] <Dominus> strange but true :-)
[22:04:15] <SB-X> oh doesn't surprise me
[22:04:21] <SB-X> i don't know if it needs anything from u6
[22:04:48] <SB-X> there is some path verifier at startup but i think that is unix only
[22:05:58] <Dominus> it errored out not finding some u6 stuff when I had nuvie+cfg in the martian dir and did not set the correct u6 path...
[22:09:52] <SB-X> i'd like to have the main menus for nuvie
[22:09:58] <SB-X> and u6 vehicles
[22:10:03] <SB-X> does md have vehicles?
[22:10:27] <Dominus> never played it
[22:14:22] <SB-X> oh ok have fun then
[22:14:29] <SB-X> pretty sure you cant play through the entire thing in nuvie yet :)
[22:14:55] <Dominus> nope, not all
[22:15:26] <Dominus> "thou dost see 101 nothing. it weighs 45.0 stones"
[22:15:56] <SB-X> "It's just a lot of nothing, -really-! Move along now."
[22:16:07] <wjp> :-)
[22:17:10] <Dominus> I really hope nothing does not fall on my head...
[22:20:45] <SB-X> at the current state of the program you can probably expect random nothings to fall on you (unless gravity is not working yet which is also probable)
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[22:23:20] <ShadwChsr> hey :)
[22:23:40] <wjp> hi
[22:23:47] <ShadwChsr> How goes? :)
[22:23:58] <Dominus> wuf wuff
[22:24:02] <wjp> working on pentagram movement a bit
[22:24:15] <wjp> (did I mention it's working? :-) )
[22:24:28] <wjp> (i.e., you can drown yourself using just the mouse now!)
[22:24:35] <Dominus> all tease but no show
[22:24:58] <wjp> oh, and you can also lock up pentagram should you decide to walk into something ;-)
[22:25:09] <Dominus> (which you could before already with dragging :-))
[22:25:24] * Dominus meant drowning
[22:25:24] <wjp> Dominus: good point :-)
[22:25:43] <Dominus> the many ways to drown in pentagram
[22:27:14] <wjp> maybe I should just commit this semi-broken pathfinder so that you can play with movement :-)
[22:27:41] * Darke commissions Dominus to write a book, "101 ways to drown in pentagram."
[22:28:16] <ShadwChsr> LOL :)
[22:28:21] <ShadwChsr> Cool :)
[22:28:48] <ShadwChsr> I was thinking about my game engine, and I'm not all that happy with my file format
[22:29:05] <ShadwChsr> Its flexible, but too slow to process, I think
[22:29:32] <ShadwChsr> Any suggestions on how I should program one? I have no experience with this sort of thing, and no one writes anything about it :P
[22:30:06] <wjp> file format for what kind of data?
[22:30:19] <ShadwChsr> game resources
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[22:31:03] <ShadwChsr> Right now I have a little "linked list" file format that allows "children items".. I can have any type of item in the file, it just loops through
[22:31:18] <ShadwChsr> but because its similar to a linked list, I need to loop through everything to find something - no index
[22:31:31] <ShadwChsr> its nice because I can add items whenever I want, but its not very efficient
[22:36:25] * wjp hmms
[22:36:58] <wjp> well, if it's not efficient enough, you'll probably have to consider how much flexibility you need
[22:37:46] <ShadwChsr> I guess I'm just not happy with my file format, I start second guessing myself
[22:37:47] <ShadwChsr> hehe
[22:37:55] <Darke> Why not at load create an in-memory index of what's in the file, with offsets, then use that? Unless you're dynamicaly modifying this resource at runtime.
[22:38:31] <ShadwChsr> Thats what I do
[22:38:33] <ShadwChsr> :)
[22:39:10] <ShadwChsr> Works pretty good.... I guess I just feel like my file format is kind of... arcane :) But maybe it doesn't matter
[22:40:09] <Darke> Not really. Seems just like most other file formats to me. *grin*
[22:40:23] <ShadwChsr> I was thinking of using the same file format for my maps... originally I had a chunk of terrain stored as an item, and as "child items" I would have the statics (walls, etc)
[22:40:50] <ShadwChsr> Problem is, now I have a seemless world instead of "maps". Terrain chunks are smaller, so I can't really have 1,000 "map" files..
[22:41:11] <ShadwChsr> and besides, the map editor is seemless as well. Im not sure what to do here... it seems slightly overkill having one file for the entire world:)
[22:42:31] <ShadwChsr> Plus, each 'cell' (tile) of terrain takes up 104 bits of data.... say your world is 10,000x10,000 cells, thats 1.3 megs just for the terrain data
[22:42:44] <ShadwChsr> too much? should I add some sort of simple ZLib compression to chunks of terrain?
[22:43:07] <ShadwChsr> sorry about bugging you guys, I just like bouncing my ideas off other people before coding tons of code :0
[22:49:10] <wjp> 1.3Mb isn't _that_ much, but you could always keep your fileformat extensible enough to allow compression, I guess
[22:49:54] <wjp> (add a byte at the start of every item for the storage type or something)
[22:51:08] <ShadwChsr> *nods
[22:51:27] <ShadwChsr> How should I layout the file formats? Just keep it all in one file?
[22:51:43] <wjp> up to you, really
[22:51:52] <ShadwChsr> Yeah but I have no clue *grin*
[22:52:11] <wjp> both systems "work"
[22:52:21] <Darke> It works well enough with quake, etc, it should work well enough for you. *grin*
[22:52:36] <wjp> it's mainly a maintenance issue, I guess
[22:52:48] <ShadwChsr> I guess I can always change it later if I really need to
[22:52:49] <wjp> you could even consider allowing both loose files and one big file
[22:53:07] <wjp> so that you can use the loose files while developing and pack them all together when distributing
[22:53:33] <wjp> (since changing files in the middle of one big file is not something you want :-) )
[22:53:33] <Dominus> that sounds good
[22:53:43] <wjp> s/files/things/
[22:53:58] <Darke> If you're using something like filename->data mapping (such as the blizzards package files, or zip files, or something), you can substitue directory structure and real files while developing, with packed files when deploying, and even allow user overrides that way too.
[22:54:36] <wjp> I think there are some libraries that can even do that transparently for you
[22:54:42] <ShadwChsr> How would I determine which files contain which map segments?
[22:54:58] <wjp> depends :-)
[22:55:39] <Darke> Speaking of which, we really should look into those libraries for evil^Wpentagram related uses. *grin*
[22:55:49] <wjp> How would you determine which part of the Big File(tm) contains which map segments? :-)
[22:56:13] <ShadwChsr> Nah thats easy, but I need a way to determine which files are which parts of the map, if I split them :)
[22:56:33] <ShadwChsr> I dont really want to give them names like.. terrain345x645.map :)
[22:57:14] <Darke> Remember directory->(internal files & directories) maps nicely to parent->child.
[22:57:28] <Darke> Why not? It's like U7 did it. *grin*
[22:57:35] <ShadwChsr> It did? :)
[22:58:17] <ShadwChsr> What did u8 do?
[22:58:58] <Darke> All the static/u7fix?? stuff, from memory.
[22:59:06] <Dominus> u8 used maps, no seamless world
[22:59:19] <ShadwChsr> Oh yeah
[22:59:26] <ShadwChsr> forgot about that :)
[22:59:56] <ShadwChsr> If I were to redesign my file format, should I split it and have a seperate index file, or try to integrate the index file & data somehow?
[22:59:58] <Darke> And it also stuffed all it's different resources in different files, sounds in one file, animation details in another, fonts in another, gumps in another, shapes in another, etc.
[23:00:31] <ShadwChsr> The way I originally designed mine was to allow anything in any file... that way people could write little one file "upgrade packs" for more content
[23:00:36] <ShadwChsr> <shrug> not sure if thats the way to go though
[23:02:21] <Darke> I think that was the way quake/diablo2 did it. Though in d2's case it just merged multiple file index trees from multiple files, into one large 'tree'.
[23:03:01] <Darke> Then it also overlaid a 'patch_d2.mpq' file on top of that, which is how fanmods are applied to the game.
[23:03:08] <ShadwChsr> Did the tree have a master index, or was it just a "linked list" style format?
[23:03:51] <Darke> It had an index, the files are essentially filesystems internally.
[23:04:08] <ShadwChsr> *nods
[23:04:30] * Darke points out the '/me' command to ShadwChsr. *grin*
[23:04:41] <ShadwChsr> sorry, too used to instant messaging :)
[23:05:04] <Darke> From memory, they're also compressed internally too.
[23:06:29] <ShadwChsr> Well, this gives me some things to think about for awhile I guess :)
[23:06:31] <Darke> Their 'game data' (such as random treasure tables, etc) can also be stored in either text, or a binary format, for quicker parsing. I would guess it would be transparent to extract said data on the game side of things. The way they did this system was quite neat. *grin*
[23:08:18] <Darke> *Just* a few things. *grin*
[23:08:44] <ShadwChsr> I'm making quite a bit of progress on this beast <grin>
[23:08:55] <ShadwChsr> yesterday I wrote a pretty cool XML "game setting" system
[23:09:12] <ShadwChsr> not the actual preferences, but each "game" has its own XML file that defines physics, tile sizes, etc
[23:09:18] <ShadwChsr> each game has it's own resource directory
[23:09:37] <Darke> Sounds good.
[23:09:45] <ShadwChsr> the idea is, if you want to "extend" someone else's graphics but also add your own, effectively making a new game, you can define a "parent game"
[23:10:08] <ShadwChsr> and it chains the XML settings together... it inherits any XML settings from the parent game(s) that aren't overriden by the child
[23:10:21] <ShadwChsr> You can chain multiple games together if you wanted
[23:10:42] <ShadwChsr> That way theres no excuse for people to "copy & paste" other people's graphics into their own game without permission :p
[23:11:12] <wjp> hm, I really should go; 'night
[23:11:18] <ShadwChsr> night!
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