#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 4 Dec 2001 (GMT)

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[02:39:29] --> sbx has joined #exult
[02:39:52] <sbx> ?date
[02:39:52] <exultbot> It is now Tue Dec 4 02:39:52 2001 (GMT).
[02:40:27] <sbx> bbl
[02:40:29] <-- sbx has left IRC (Client Quit)
[03:09:23] <-- matto has left IRC (sterling.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
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[05:47:42] --> Darke has joined #exult
[05:47:53] * Darke pawwaves to the almost empty channel.
[06:27:45] --> Blackbird has joined #exult
[06:28:00] * Darke bowfluffs. "Hi Blackbird."
[06:28:21] <Blackbird> Hi Darke... you're the rabbit coder, right?
[06:28:28] <Blackbird> matt0!!!
[06:28:34] <Blackbird> hi exultbot
[06:28:45] * Darke grins and bows.
[06:29:41] <Blackbird> I must say, I'm really enjoying the new beta of Exult. I just wish assignments weren't getting in the way.
[06:30:31] <Darke> I understand completely, despite the fact I haven't actually _played_ exult in the last few months. <grin>
[06:31:23] <Blackbird> Ugh... tomorrow I have to spend a good deal of time in the lab preparing yet another stupid Powerpoint presentation for Wednesday's lecture... argh :-(
[06:32:44] * Darke sympatheticfluffs. "Powerpoint is evil."
[06:33:14] <Blackbird> On the bright side, I had a chance to mess around with the latest version of Partition Magic and was highly impressed. No fuss, no risk merging and resizing. Too bad it's commercialware.
[06:34:27] <Blackbird> Yes, Powerpoint is _eViL_ indeed! We all hated those slide shows in biology class and Powerpoint is nothing more than flashy slide shows. Heck, I've got relatives who turn their vacation photos into Powerpoint presentations.
[06:34:38] <Darke> <grin> I've got to purchase myself a legit copy of that. I had my life saved after I accidentally fdisked the wrong partition, a 10Gig partition of Important Stuff(tm), with a warez version of PM.
[06:35:06] <Blackbird> hehehe
[06:35:42] <Blackbird> How goes things in .au?
[06:36:15] <Darke> (powerpoint) It's worse then slideshows. Two words, "Transition Effects". It seems every lecturer or whoever wants to use a New(tm), Improved(tm), Different(tm) transition between every second slide. It drives me nuts!
[06:36:39] <Darke> Life in .au goes on as normal. <grin>
[06:36:58] <Blackbird> <cheeky grin> about the same in .ca
[06:37:10] <Blackbird> exultbot: hi
[06:37:10] <exultbot> Hi Blackbird!
[06:37:32] <Blackbird> You know exultbot is wjp's lovechild, right? :-)
[06:40:45] <Darke> Something like that. <grin>
[06:41:25] <Blackbird> I've met a lot of bots over the years, but exultbot is my favorite. There's almost a tangible quality to it.
[06:41:36] <Blackbird> exultbot: how are you?
[06:41:36] <exultbot> buggy
[06:41:53] <Blackbird> heh... never get tired of that one! :-P
[06:42:37] <Darke> It seemed to choke on some code I pasted in here yesterday. <grin> Lost 8 lines of it and didn't update the logs for 5 or 6 hours. Completely unreproducable of course.
[06:43:56] <Blackbird> Well, I guess exultbot doesn't take after it's "daddy" in that respect (coding appreciation, that is)
[06:45:47] * Darke snickers.
[06:47:12] <Blackbird> Careful, Darke. If you check the logs, my D&D characters have a penchant for rabbit molestation and ritual feeding. Which reminds me, rabbit stew is on special this week at my local grocery store.
[06:48:32] * Darke knows and isn't particularly worried since he's an almost 6foot anthro-rabbit. <grin>
[06:48:57] <Blackbird> WOW!!! You're freakin' HUGE! :-)
[06:49:51] * Darke snickers.
[06:50:10] <Darke> You want SharpTooth, he's the 'normal' form bunny rabbit.
[06:51:22] <Blackbird> I'm debating with names for my child... which do you prefer: DrCode, wjp, Coder Infidel, Dominus, Sharptooth, Darke, Nadir, Oblivious, etc?
[06:52:35] <Darke> Oblivious. <grin>
[06:53:34] <Blackbird> Heh... nice :-) Only if it's a girl :-)
[07:02:06] --> sbx has joined #exult
[07:03:26] <sbx> ?date
[07:03:26] <exultbot> It is now Tue Dec 4 07:03:26 2001 (GMT).
[07:03:43] <Blackbird> SB-X!!!
[07:04:20] <sbx> Blackbird!!!
[07:04:45] <Blackbird> What brings you to Openproject's most popular IRC channel?
[07:04:59] <Darke> Hi sbx.
[07:05:07] * sbx collects all the extraneous exclamation points and gives them to matto.
[07:05:13] <sbx> Blackbird: you mean most idle?
[07:05:14] <sbx> hi
[07:05:22] <Blackbird> heh
[07:05:39] * Darke considers it for the title 'most insane at times'.
[07:05:59] <sbx> it has the most <fluff>
[07:06:47] <Blackbird> Wish I could stay, but got an early morning and long day ahead... bbl sometime :-)
[07:06:53] <sbx> Darke: I am going to translate -fa 402 output into a C-like format just because you thought it would be difficult for me. :-)
[07:06:55] <sbx> ...
[07:07:02] <sbx> Blackbird: your hardly ever here
[07:07:07] <Darke> Blackbird: Have 'fun'. <grin>
[07:07:22] <Darke> sbx: So you're going to prove to me that you're completely insane?
[07:07:24] <Blackbird> I'm always here in spirit :-)
[07:07:31] <-- Blackbird has left IRC ("seeya l8r!")
[07:07:35] <sbx> hrmm
[07:08:02] <sbx> Darke: That i have much time on my hands and the seedy world of Usecode intrigues me.
[07:08:31] <sbx> Do I smell... Usecode?
[07:08:51] <Darke> sbx: No you don't.
[07:09:03] * sbx wonders if Iolo says that in bgpatch3 too.
[07:09:10] <sbx> have you tried it?
[07:09:16] * Darke wonders how usecode could be 'seedy'.
[07:09:30] <sbx> seedy and corrupting :-)
[07:09:46] <sbx> it is the underbelly of society
[07:09:47] <Darke> No, that's just me. <fangygrin>
[07:10:35] <sbx> do you know how to solve the `EXULT_SI_FLX_CRC32' undeclared (first use this function) errors?
[07:11:06] <sbx> and BG
[07:11:41] <Darke> From the exult ML:
[07:11:42] <Darke> >You might need to manually rebuild exult*_flx.h.
[07:11:42] <Darke> Yeah, rm'ing the three files and rebuilding them worked.
[07:13:10] * sbx should have checked mail before asking thanks.
[07:16:01] --- Darke is now known as Darke|afk
[07:29:07] --> Wumpus has joined #exult
[07:29:18] <Wumpus> yaaay i'm back :)
[07:29:44] <sbx> yaay Wumpus is back :)
[07:29:54] <Wumpus> thalia- oh, the radio reckons St Ives still doesn't have power :) which is... interesting
[07:29:56] <Wumpus> bah
[07:30:00] <Wumpus> `lo sbx
[07:30:17] <sbx> who is thalia?
[07:30:38] <sbx> Wumpus: Jeff Freedman put some updates in the code maybe it fixed your infinite loop
[07:30:54] <Wumpus> well, there's Talia Winters from Babylon 5, but I don't think she's got an h in her name.... or there's a person in another channel with that nick
[07:31:06] <Wumpus> sbx- cool :) I haven't had time to check the thread since two days ago, lost power late yesterday arvo
[07:31:29] <Wumpus> the bug wasn't repeatable, so *Shrug* we'll see :-)
[07:31:38] * sbx was just reading the Changelog.
[07:31:45] <sbx> you are in St Ives?
[07:32:22] <Wumpus> indeed
[07:32:57] <sbx> werent you getting the bug on the magic carpet(a barge)? - * objs/barge.cc (Barge_object): Start motion with 1 tile for
[07:32:57] <sbx> better control. * usecode/ucinternal.cc (public): Get_barge() checks to see that
[07:32:57] <sbx> obj. is within the barge's footprint. Also finds highest
[07:32:57] <sbx> qualifying barge beneath obj.
[07:33:24] <sbx> why was your power out?
[07:33:50] <Wumpus> sbx- oh... hmm... I got the infinite loop when i was flying the carpet, that wasn't repeatable.... I also encountered the multiple barges glitch mentioned in the tracker, but that was entirely unrelated, and just funny to see
[07:34:01] <Wumpus> we lost power due to a rather large storm :|
[07:34:08] <Wumpus> was out for ~12 hours I guess
[07:35:04] <sbx> is it summer in australia?
[07:35:47] <Wumpus> yep
[07:36:11] <sbx> summer storm?
[07:36:41] <Wumpus> *nod* *shrug*
[07:36:46] <Wumpus> its when we get the really big ones
[07:37:21] <Wumpus> had a *huge* hail (!) storm in Jan '91 (I think) which took out power for a week and left large piles of hail lying around for more than a day :) and took out all the windows on the "wrong" side of the house :-(
[07:37:59] * Wumpus wonders about the logic by which SF does or does not send you bug-tracker email
[07:38:10] <sbx> you know, it is possible to make electrical equipment not get effected by storms
[07:38:24] <Wumpus> um?
[07:38:25] <sbx> Wumpus: hehe i commented on a bug and accidentally did it twice
[07:38:55] <sbx> im just saying the power company should fix their equipment :P
[07:38:55] <Wumpus> power poles down all over everywhere; yes, they are talking about putting them undergroudn, but thats going to take a looooon time
[07:40:28] * sbx tries the new patch.
[07:40:52] * Wumpus has a repeatable (I think) crash bug :)
[07:41:08] * Wumpus is going to verify that its repeatable once he's caught up on "reality" insofar as that word applies to the internet
[07:44:41] <sbx> wow the patch works
[07:45:03] <sbx> except there are three people, all named Sherri, acting crazy in a house on the north side of the island
[07:45:49] <Wumpus> :)
[07:46:07] <Wumpus> hehe yeah, I've had a few situations where there have been random extra duplicates
[07:46:28] * sbx wonders if this was not intentional however.
[07:46:54] <Wumpus> EG, the pirates on Avatar Isle - the head pirate dude (with all the nice equipment) had a duplicate (which did nothing); the mage dude near the Sphere Generator had 3 duplicates (!) all of whom did nothing
[07:47:46] <sbx> hehe duplicates are funny... but i think maybe these three people arent really supposed to be people they are just "decoration" so far
[07:48:08] --- Darke|afk is now known as Darke
[07:48:29] * sbx was once attacked by multiple women guarding the generator near Gorn(but they were the same npc).
[07:48:37] <Wumpus> :)
[07:50:30] <Wumpus> hehe
[07:50:42] * Wumpus is near to completing BG without joining the fellowship :)
[07:51:30] <sbx> hrmm
[07:51:38] <sbx> try to complete the game with everyone spouting gibberish :)
[07:51:49] <Wumpus> SI you mean? hmmm
[07:51:52] <Wumpus> does that work?
[07:51:56] <sbx> that too but i meant BG
[07:52:08] <Wumpus> how do you induces them to speak giberish in BG?
[07:52:12] <sbx> answer batlins questions incorrectly
[07:52:26] <sbx> the ones he asks after you do his little test
[07:52:42] <sbx> or maybe its after you deliver the package to minoc
[07:52:49] <Wumpus> oh okay
[07:52:55] * sbx checks.
[07:53:05] <Wumpus> yeah i know the ones you mean
[07:53:19] * Wumpus had forgotten those, since I haven't joined the fellowship in a number of years now :)
[07:53:39] <sbx> it is not necessary to join the Fellowship?
[07:53:46] <Wumpus> its supposed to be :)
[07:53:59] <sbx> so it is an Exult bug?
[07:54:00] <Wumpus> you need to join the fellowship to be let into the fellowship retreat at the gate
[07:54:08] <sbx> ooh the carpet thing :P
[07:54:11] <Wumpus> but there's nothing stopping you from flying in and landing the carpet within the compound :-)
[07:54:18] <sbx> heh
[07:54:41] <Darke> IIRC it also give you better odds at the ratrace in the gambling house as well.
[07:54:48] --> dto has joined #exult
[07:55:01] <Wumpus> darke- *shrug* I've got scads of money :)
[07:55:09] <dto> hi all
[07:55:27] <Wumpus> and i haven't even looted the pirate cave that the parrot tells you about yet
[07:55:36] <dto> Hello folks
[07:55:37] <Darke> Wumpus: I know. <grin> It's not all that difficult to acquire cash in the game.
[07:55:41] <sbx> hi dto
[07:55:41] <Darke> Hi dto. <bow>
[07:55:47] <Wumpus> and i've been fairly conservative about, ahem, liberating stuff that the owners no longer needed (EG alagner's stuff)
[07:56:30] * sbx has never actually played through BG in it's entirety and stolen items.
[07:56:50] <dto> I'm considering trying Exult soon. If you have a sound blaster card with the old FM chip in it, will it use that for the music/sfx?
[07:56:59] <sbx> ive stolen things when i go on rampages sometimes... but i never intend to finish the quest the :-)
[07:57:03] <sbx> dto: yes
[07:57:11] <Wumpus> *nod*
[07:57:12] <dto> that is sweet
[07:57:22] <sbx> s/the/then
[07:57:24] <dto> I always loved the sound in that game
[07:57:37] * Wumpus has been saving, and then gone on a random thieving/cheating rampage :) but I've not cheated at all in the actualy timeline i'm playing
[07:57:37] <Wumpus> well
[07:57:58] <sbx> dto you try TiMidity?
[07:58:23] <Wumpus> actually, I soemtimes played with infravision on :) annoying torces aren't bright enough :P and i get the feeling In Lor isn't as bright as it should be, but that may be my imaginiation
[07:58:31] <Wumpus> timidity rox0rs, but its a CPU hog :-(
[07:58:46] <dto> sbx: no what does it do?
[07:59:01] <Wumpus> its a software midi thingo
[07:59:03] <sbx> i have stolen to feed myself when i felt the raw animal meet wasnt good enough for me and my party members
[07:59:04] <Wumpus> very nice :-)
[07:59:12] <sbx> stolen food from inns and such
[07:59:17] <dto> i would rather have it use the FM chip. "general midi" is homogenized cheese spread
[07:59:20] <Wumpus> thingo = synthesizer (is that the right word?)
[07:59:26] <Wumpus> its not GM :)
[07:59:34] <sbx> s/meet/meat i am very tired
[07:59:38] * Wumpus 's card does GM, and timidity is infinitely nicer :)
[07:59:40] <sbx> dto: it is wave sounds
[07:59:56] <dto> sbx: cool
[08:00:20] <sbx> dto: get Timidity and nice patches if you have a good CPU, then get Dominus' soundpacks for SFX
[08:00:53] <dto> sbx: well it would be interesting, but primarily I want the original sound so I'll try the FM chip option
[08:02:14] <sbx> the original sound was designed for an MT-32 i think
[08:02:32] <Wumpus> oh no, i don't have GM do i... something yuckier
[08:02:57] <sbx> GS is better than GM but atm i think there isnt any difference between the two in Exult
[08:03:46] <Wumpus> OPL-3, whats that?
[08:03:53] <sbx> dto: Exult is much better than the original in many ways but there are still bugs to work out
[08:04:26] <sbx> i dont know about sound hardware, i thought opl-3 was the type of fm chip in SB16 cards
[08:04:30] <dto> sbx: so wait, Adlib does not work then?
[08:04:33] <dto> yeah
[08:04:35] <sbx> i know i use the opl3 module
[08:04:42] <dto> oh ok.
[08:05:02] * sbx has an SB16 and doesn't use TiMidity+ because his CPU can't handle the mixing.
[08:05:21] <dto> ( was the SNES version of TBG any good? )
[08:05:28] <dto> oic
[08:05:34] <Wumpus> sbx- I play with no sound :P for that reason
[08:05:38] <Wumpus> poor little cpu
[08:05:41] <Darke> dto: No.
[08:05:54] <sbx> Wumpus: "I feel your pain."
[08:06:02] <Wumpus> :)
[08:06:06] <Wumpus> not for much longer, yay :)
[08:06:28] <dto> It's really too bad they don't make games like u7 anymore. I've never seen any game with so much STUFF. millions of objects everywhere, everything movable/usable.
[08:06:36] <sbx> Wumpus: something >1GHz?
[08:06:48] <Wumpus> sbx: *G* *nod*
[08:07:06] <dto> it's like a world-simulation you are playing in, and then the plot is laid over top of that. Ultima VII ate a whole summer of my life (both parts) because I'd get lost in inventing some explorational side quest
[08:07:20] <dto> finding caves, or bandits
[08:07:34] <sbx> dto: exactly (although it has taken more than a summer of my life!)
[08:08:12] <Darke> dto: I only finished the game once in the 6 months 6 or so hours a day playtime when I first got the game. <grin>
[08:08:43] <dto> i was probably doing longer than 6 hrs some of those days (i was maybe 17 at the time?)
[08:08:57] <dto> no, 16, this was before college
[08:09:00] <sbx> if you ignore everything but the main parts you can finish quite fast... but it usually isnt done that way :-)
[08:09:31] <dto> yeah, the fun was in the zillion other parts
[08:09:36] <Darke> dto: I was about 13? or 14 at the time, 8ish hours school then u7 'til sleep. <grin>
[08:09:39] <Wumpus> *nod*
[08:10:05] <dto> especially SI, that was crammed full of weird little areas. this is actually one of my signature memories of Ultima:
[08:10:10] <sbx> even having a lot of time to play then... doesn't mean i am no still playing it :-)
[08:10:22] * sbx has yet to go through SI.
[08:10:24] * Wumpus vaguely suspects that there's a glitch with the way exult awards experience, but again something i need to crosscheck with the original
[08:10:49] <dto> crossing over a wood bridge into the swamp, finding the forest oasis and the fountain, and that tiny xylophone/music box tune fades in from nowhere
[08:10:55] * Wumpus has yet to play SI all the way too... and i very much doubt I can remember much of the start, either.... :-) looking forward to it
[08:10:55] * sbx vaguely suspects that there's a glitch with all of Exult
[08:10:58] <sbx> oops
[08:11:01] * sbx vaguely suspects that there's a glitch with all of Exult's combat system
[08:11:04] <dto> perfect ambiance. i've rarely been satisfied with games after that
[08:11:17] <Wumpus> sbx- well yeah :-)
[08:11:20] --> wjp has joined #exult
[08:11:20] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to wjp
[08:11:26] <wjp> hi
[08:11:26] <Wumpus> sbx- but this wasn't combat experience :) I think that looks right
[08:11:36] <Darke> Hi wjp.
[08:11:44] <Wumpus> (albeit nothing else about combat looks right, but thats a Known Issue (TM) ;-p)
[08:12:07] <sbx> hi wjp
[08:13:28] * Wumpus notes that sb-x ruined `pan sola's careful effort to not give too much away (`possible u7 bug???') ;-p
[08:13:36] * Wumpus waves to wjp
[08:13:44] <sbx> haha
[08:13:51] <sbx> good for sb-x
[08:14:09] <dto> I have both the "worlds of ultima" things somewhere but i haven't gotten into either one yet... are they good?
[08:14:37] <Wumpus> darke- how do teleporters work internally? is there a bit of usecode for each of them, or is there generic usecode for teleporters (and some parameters), or something else entirely :) just curious
[08:15:58] <Darke> Use the usecode Wumpus. <grin> No idea. If you can give me a intrinsic number I could find out. OTOP, if you had an intrinsic number you could find out. <innocentwiggle>
[08:16:14] <Wumpus> :)
[08:16:18] * Wumpus has no idea :)
[08:16:22] <dto> Why is it that noone has done a game as remotely as complex or deep as U7 since then?
[08:16:50] --- wjp is now known as wjp|work
[08:16:59] <sbx> dto: because I have not completed my game yet
[08:17:08] <Wumpus> hehe
[08:17:11] <dto> hehe :-)
[08:17:29] <Wumpus> possibly the audience is too small, compared to the profit you can make out by churning out another half life clone (or whatever) ;-p
[08:17:56] <dto> i eventually want to go into game design actually. hey if i ever start up a company and get venture capital maybe i'd hire exult people... i'd know what kinds of stuff they want to make right from the get-go eh?>
[08:19:02] <sbx> hehe i would like some venture capital too
[08:19:06] <dto> I am still playing a lot of games, but nothing quite hits home like U7. I liked Thief and System Shock II a lot, but well I was not fond of U9 :-)
[08:19:18] * sbx only played the Thief demo.
[08:19:23] <Wumpus> hehe thief!
[08:19:23] <Wumpus> damn
[08:19:36] <sbx> it was very nice but i never got around to buying the game
[08:19:38] * Wumpus loved (and still loves) thief
[08:19:42] * Darke likes Shock 1 & 2.
[08:20:05] <sbx> Wumpus: yes some parts are pretty damn creepy
[08:20:08] <Wumpus> dto- played T2? does it love up to thief?
[08:20:38] <sbx> Wumpus: but in most parts you feel like a creep :-)
[08:20:51] <Wumpus> *shrug* :)
[08:21:08] * sbx kinda felt sorry for the guys who he snuck up on... bet eh they deserved it. :P
[08:21:15] <Wumpus> they carefully engineer it so all the people you rob are evil bastards anyway :P
[08:21:18] <dto> sbx: thief ROCKED. ambience galore and at about the point where you enter the abandoned undead section of the city on your way to this cathedral, it gets spoooooky.
[08:21:25] <Wumpus> even if you don't know it at the time ;-p
[08:21:57] <dto> Wumpus: never did thief 2, I heard the play mechanics are the same but that there is no supernatural element whatsoever.
[08:22:01] <Wumpus> hehe yeash, I put off playing THC for a loooooong time... didn't like the look of it, but it rocked when i finally did play it
[08:22:30] <sbx> THC?
[08:22:30] <dto> those looking-glass people were brilliant. they did Ultima Underworld, System Shock, and Thief series.... wow.
[08:22:30] <Wumpus> dto- hmm, i can live with that :) some of my favourites were the straight out burglaries etc.... :)
[08:22:48] * Wumpus didn't like the third mission.... Bonehoard.... stupid zombies and burricks :|
[08:22:57] * Wumpus didn't like zombies, perido ;-p
[08:23:08] <sbx> what does THC mean?
[08:23:16] <dto> I might get it, it's probably the last pc game that will run on our windows boxes... they're gettin old. I've been doing a lot of Dreamcast though and planning a PS2 purchase this xmas.
[08:23:19] <Wumpus> The Haunted Cathedral :)
[08:23:28] <sbx> oh
[08:23:39] <Wumpus> actually no
[08:23:44] <Wumpus> i meant "Return to the Cathedral"
[08:23:51] <sbx> oh
[08:23:56] <Wumpus> "The Haunted CAthedral" wasn't so great...
[08:24:43] <Wumpus> (again, zombies galore and burricks :/)
[08:24:43] <sbx> dto: how old are your old windows boxes?
[08:24:43] <dto> I hate console style rpg's (you know, the kind of FFVII cinema-scene-fest that you have to do if there is next to no space for saving a game)
[08:24:43] <sbx> bah
[08:24:43] <dto> sbx: 1999 or so
[08:24:46] * sbx feels lots of games can take a place in his heart. ;-)
[08:24:53] <sbx> sbx: that is not so old hehe
[08:26:00] <Wumpus> Thief runs *bearably* on a P166 without hardware 3D.... but only just... (and some missions are nearly unplayable... eg parts of the Mege's Guild)
[08:26:00] <dto> but I've been playing other types of games. (dreamcast had few rpg's in any case. it would have had System Shock II but the port was terminated in the near-finished stage from what I hear.)
[08:26:01] <dto> Wumps: these are 266MHZ with an old Riva card
[08:26:01] * sbx has a 200MHz with Voodoo3 2000 PCI
[08:26:06] <Wumpus> dto- no problem then :-) get thief gold, should be able to pick it up cheap
[08:26:20] <dto> SS2, Thief got 30+ fps at almost all times (but Deus Ex was ***absolutely*** unplayable.) strangely enough
[08:26:30] <dto> Wumpus: I already have thief, just not part II. or does gold include p2?
[08:26:32] <Wumpus> hehe
[08:26:50] <dto> sbx: you want my copy of redguard? i never did get a card that worked with it...
[08:26:52] <Wumpus> I tried Deus Ex on *dad*s computer (Celery 550 or so, no hardware 3D...) and it ran like a total dog
[08:26:56] <Wumpus> admittedly that was just the demo
[08:27:13] <sbx> dto: what is that?
[08:27:16] <dto> Wumpus: i ended up returning it. i liked the whole concept but couldn't get it to run decently.
[08:27:18] <Wumpus> dto- oh, was getting confused :) nah, Gold just has some extra missions; but very nice ones :) probably not worth buying just for that though
[08:27:30] <sbx> Wumpus: hehe celery
[08:27:39] <dto> sbx: the first 3d "elder scrolls" game. was pretty well reviewed, but i never got it working.
[08:27:40] <Wumpus> dto- on a 266? hmm weird
[08:27:51] * Wumpus shrugs
[08:28:03] * Wumpus 's definition of playable is probably different to other people's :-)
[08:28:10] <dto> Wumpus: which game you mean?
[08:28:32] * sbx may have tried to play a redguard demo and found it didnt work... but cant remember(didnt have 3D card then).
[08:28:45] <sbx> Wumpus: what is your definition?
[08:28:48] <dto> Wumpus: redguard wouldn't run because I didn't have the right brand of card. this is before MS began its six-year project to reinvent opengl.
[08:29:00] <sbx> did MS succeed?
[08:29:03] * Wumpus is confused about who is talking about which game now, and shuts up for a bit :)
[08:29:12] <Wumpus> sbx- uhh :) i don't know how to quantify playability :)
[08:29:17] <dto> Unreal Tournament is fine though, on that pc. Runs like a charm, occasional slowdown but otherwise perfect.
[08:29:49] <dto> sbx: i guess so yes, but I've read some pretty funny things about the endless API reinventions (all backward compatible!) that eventually ended up looking just like OGL
[08:29:57] <dto> there was this article about that somewhere.
[08:30:05] * sbx is learning OpenGL.
[08:31:04] * sbx was pissed when he figured he couldn't do stenciling on the voodoo3
[08:31:23] <sbx> shadow stencils
[08:31:25] <dto> back in the days of "WinG" (what eventually became Direct Draw iirc) there was this funny article about GLQuake, and why Id brushed off DirectX. they basically said the DX API was total shit and that OGL had already solved this problem. Well MS improved it of course, but .... from what I hear they've arrived back where everyone else was.
[08:31:52] <Wumpus> :)
[08:31:58] <Wumpus> but they got there in their own way!
[08:32:02] <sbx> Id still uses ogl
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[08:33:21] <dto> Wumpus: you have to take me with a grain of salt. part of me still wishes I'd see "DOS4GW" at the start of every game.
[08:33:34] <Wumpus> hehe damn dos4gw was cool
[08:33:59] * sbx has no idea what dos4gw is besides remembering it load up at the start of some games.
[08:34:01] * Wumpus managed to abuse it into letting me play CnC on my 386-33 with way below spec RAM :-)
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[08:34:18] <dto> i was gonna write a game with DJGPP. wrote a tile system but of course didn't know how to make a game work. so i went out and got a c.s. degree , and well now what? ;-)
[08:34:35] <Wumpus> hehe dto :)
[08:34:44] <dto> sbx: dos extender, gives a flat memory model and 32-bit code (wow!) to DOS games
[08:35:04] <dto> sbx: no device services of course, everyone had their own solution for that
[08:35:12] <Wumpus> sbx- very roughly, a way of making deal with memory *infinitely* more easily than you were used to back then (as a programmer).... its no longer an issue
[08:35:45] <dto> sbx: near/far pointers, 64K segment limit, all that crap gone. of course if you learned to program more recently that will not ring a bell anyway.
[08:35:58] <Wumpus> :-)
[08:36:07] * Wumpus didn't really know how to program "large" things back then :)
[08:36:22] <Wumpus> although i do remember going "hmm, near and far pointers and stuff... sounds hard, i'll put it off 'til later" :-)
[08:36:27] <sbx> i know what your talking about, but like Wumpus... i just didnt know how to program "large" things then
[08:36:35] <Wumpus> and then i got a compiler which used dos4gw, and I aws happy :-)
[08:36:57] <sbx> oh... i made a tile engine in DOS too but i only stopped working on it so i could rewrite it as a portable network enabled world engine
[08:37:06] <dto> i've been involved in one "large" project now, but it might be awhile before i work on games. i might want to get a job reviewing/writing about games in the meantime
[08:37:23] <Wumpus> :)
[08:37:28] <dto> (current project: http://www.gnu.org/software/octal with screenshots at http://dto.qwsi.net/octalstuff
[08:37:36] * Wumpus has been in a few largish projects now....
[08:37:41] * sbx considers game reviewer as a completely worthless occupation, but would still love to have the job.
[08:38:07] <Wumpus> hehe sbx :)
[08:38:10] <Wumpus> mmm playtester :)
[08:38:28] <dto> sbx: i learn a lot from game reviews, as people make connections and compare/contrast things from years ago, define genres, etc. But I also figure out what to buy, i hate wasting money on games I don't play
[08:39:07] <sbx> dto: heh quite the opposite... i dont read them much but i can say pretty much every time i had i was only disgusted at the reviewer(if i had already played the game)
[08:39:26] <dto> i've been writing some reviews lately. i might eventually post em. Jet Grind Radio and Bangai-O plus one or two others.
[08:39:33] <sbx> so i dont put much worth on what they say... its the developers that define genres
[08:39:40] <Wumpus> bah reviewers
[08:39:43] <sbx> dto: you getting paid? hehe
[08:39:52] * Wumpus buts almost zero worth on what they say ;-p
[08:39:52] <dto> sbx: oh, I meant "pointing out connections between" etc
[08:40:09] <sbx> i can point out connections
[08:40:27] <dto> sbx: I didn't mean "creating" genres. But yeah there is also a lot of bias (like when they say "come on people where are the polygons?" in response to any 2d element of anything)
[08:40:43] <dto> so it can suck
[08:41:15] <sbx> dto: i of course am talking about "reviewers", people who just write about games are at least not trying to tell me what to do
[08:41:20] <dto> sbx: no, i'm planning to put them online as evidence that i have done reviews i guess.
[08:41:42] <dto> sbx: i *wish* i could get paid for that.
[08:42:34] <sbx> that would be nice
[08:43:03] <dto> i've got some article ideas about nonrecent games that are not really reviews, but they're not written fully yet.
[08:43:10] <wjp|work> Wumpus: teleporters are a special kind of egg that can work in two ways. Either it contains absolute coordinates to teleport too, or it points to a 'teleport destination' egg nearby
[08:43:20] <sbx> dto: speaking of writing about games... here is an understatement from a U7 walkthrough...
[08:44:00] <sbx> dto "If you are playing the SNES version of Ultima 7, please do yourself a favor,
[08:44:00] <sbx> and throw that piece of garbage away. It is by far the WORST game port that I
[08:44:00] <sbx> have ever seen."
[08:44:43] <sbx> dto: yes, that is an understatement, in answer to your question about the SNES version
[08:44:51] <dto> for instance: how the horror and resource management elements of SS2 make Resident Evil's game design look like Haunted House on atari. (I loved RE: Code Veronica but honestly, there is a lot of "backing up to a days old savegame because I should have left this or that gun with Chris instead of Claire before that cinema scene")
[08:45:57] <dto> there are a couple of real showstopper goofs in RECV, we never quite ended up finishing the game.
[08:46:45] * sbx should try SS or SS2... is what is RECV? third installment?
[08:46:46] <dto> after starting over twice we gave up----what fun is there in going thru it all over again? the second time makes it obvious how scripted everything is. (The "rebel assault" factor.)
[08:46:58] <sbx> oopps.. what is RECV? third installment?
[08:47:20] <dto> sbx: RECV is resident evil code veronica, the 4th RE game... nothing to do with SS2 but I was comparing them
[08:47:44] <sbx> so if I liked RE2 would i like SS2?
[08:47:52] <dto> i.e. my main thesis for the article being that what is now called "survival horror" is really a rather impoverished genre when the best work is unknown to console folks
[08:47:58] <dto> what?
[08:48:19] <dto> I'd say if you liked RE2 you'd LOVE RECV (you have to have a dreamcast or ps2 to play it.)
[08:48:35] <sbx> So there really isnt a comparison the the SS games?
[08:48:42] <sbx> s/the the/to the
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[08:50:42] <dto> ..... SS2's play mechanics are completely unlike any resident evil game. My comparison is with the survival horror elements: carefully conserving resources like health and ammo items, high importance placed on sounds of approaching/wandering enemy, main character is trapped in a bad situation and is the last survivor and must escape
[08:50:42] <sbx> ah
[08:50:42] <sbx> ok
[08:50:45] <dto> along with scary enemies and sudden events, those are really the identifying characteristics of survival horror.
[08:51:22] <dto> so basically the article would be about SS series and RE series both having strong survival horror elements, but putting RE in perspective
[08:51:42] <dto> you might still like it. SS2 is by the same people who did Ultima Underworld.
[08:51:58] <dto> and Thief (it plays like a sci-fi thief that is not mission based... game engine is same)
[08:52:12] * sbx vaguely remembers a zombie like animal creature that walked on all fours, that liked to smash through glass in RE2. :-)
[08:52:44] <sbx> i havnt played the underworld games
[08:52:54] * sbx is a bad dragon. :-(
[08:52:59] * Wumpus very briuefly tried one of the underworlds, but was initially unimpressed
[08:53:02] <Wumpus> hehe
[08:53:05] --- Wumpus is now known as TribbleDragon
[08:53:12] * TribbleDragon opens his wings
[08:53:12] <TribbleDragon> umm
[08:53:18] <dto> SS2's horror element is quite developed. especially because quite a few of the enemies can be heard talking to themselves or others before they hear you coming... then they say FREAKy things when they sense someone around (there's "unaware", "alert", and "seen you" modes just like Thief)
[08:53:23] * TribbleDragon pokes the server... why did my nick take so long to change
[08:53:26] <dto> wumpus: lemme guess: it was II
[08:53:34] <TribbleDragon> dto- i can't remember *shrug*
[08:53:43] <TribbleDragon> i just remember it was first person perspective, and rather grotty graphics
[08:53:50] <TribbleDragon> and there was something vaguely like a rat man thingie
[08:53:57] <TribbleDragon> I didn't play it for very long ;-p
[08:54:11] <dto> that could be either. UU1 blew me away, UU2 was kind of dopey.
[08:54:27] <matto> ?
[08:54:28] * TribbleDragon grins evilly
[08:54:36] <dto> heh
[08:54:50] * TribbleDragon has *everyone*s marks who did a computing course :-)
[08:55:08] <TribbleDragon> some people should consider the distributions of the mailing lists more carefully before sending "UNSW CONFIDENTIAL" stuff :)
[08:55:11] <sbx> dto: its interesting how you can look at certain modern games, and some things which many of them have in common, and which seem innovative, were actually introduced in some previous one-of-a-kind game
[08:55:25] <dto> sbx: *yes*
[08:55:38] <dto> i love the influence of one game on another
[08:55:55] <dto> I wonder what Bionic Commando influenced. That seemed pretty original.
[08:56:29] <dto> you can trace most things back to Atari and NES.
[08:56:51] * TribbleDragon is amazed that Ultima 7 still looks quite good (in terms of graphics)
[08:57:10] <dto> the color scheme is what makes it work
[08:57:57] * TribbleDragon is not a very good dragon in terms of the Ultima games he's played.... 57'S'8 I think would be my UDIC code (at least, coutning only the games I had a serious shot at)
[08:58:03] <dto> i loved the pallette effects that made the nighttime have that lovely glow.
[08:58:14] <TribbleDragon> :)
[08:58:46] <dto> i did 6, 7, 8, and played nine for about 2 days before giving up. Actually my review of that one is online already if anyone wants to see :-)
[08:58:48] <sbx> TribbleDragon: is there an updated UDIC code somewhere?
[08:59:03] <dto> http://dto.qwsi.net/rants/ultimasucks.html
[08:59:05] <matto> 9, eh?
[08:59:31] * sbx is not sure he wants to see an ultima sucks page hehe.
[08:59:38] <dto> heheh
[08:59:45] <TribbleDragon> sbx- i have no idea :) I haven't really been involved in UDIC for, uhh, years
[08:59:45] <matto> my brother switched from a voodoo3 to a geforce3 and reported that 9 was the same speed or slightly slower .. hehehe... which shows how horrible their direct3d code is compared to their glide code
[08:59:58] * TribbleDragon read the newsgroup for quite a while, years ago, before the split; and i was on the undernet channel for a considerable time
[09:01:07] <sbx> TribbleDragon: i mainly played the MOO before they changed it.. then i practically got kicked out :P
[09:02:55] <TribbleDragon> :)
[09:02:59] --- TribbleDragon is now known as Wumpus
[09:03:03] <Wumpus> never played that at all
[09:03:11] * Wumpus has never dared tried MUD style stuff... i'd only get hooked ;-p
[09:03:47] <dto> I'd want to play an MMORPG based on Guardian Legend if it existed.
[09:05:35] <dto> well folks
[09:05:41] <dto> i'm going to get to bed, it's 4 AM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[09:05:49] <Wumpus> :)
[09:05:53] <Wumpus> g'night dto
[09:05:57] <dto> night folks
[09:06:01] * dto is away: probably coding octal...
[09:06:54] <sbx> ... see you
[09:07:20] <sbx> Wumpus: if you did ever go to the Weyrmount one be careful who you anger :-)
[09:08:11] <Wumpus> oh?
[09:08:24] <Wumpus> is this in the "Angering Wizards is a Bad Idea" area? :-)
[09:10:03] <Wumpus> "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards. They're not all that subtle." ;-p
[09:12:34] <sbx> sorry was afk... no just some normal users got mad at me and threatened to get me kicked off the server
[09:13:05] <Wumpus> :)
[09:13:09] * Wumpus tries to remember where that quote comes from...
[09:15:24] <Darke> Err... Terry Pratchet? "Do not meddle in the afairs of wizzards, for they are subtle and quick to anger."?
[09:15:24] <Wumpus> well no
[09:16:01] <Wumpus> *that* version comes from Tolkien ;-p
[09:16:01] <Wumpus> its possible the bastardised version comes from PTerry, i suppose, yeah
[09:16:01] <sbx> haha
[09:16:01] * Darke can't remember, he _loathes_ Tolkein.
[09:16:01] <sbx> wtf
[09:16:01] <sbx> why?
[09:16:18] * sbx thinks Darke
[09:16:19] <sbx> oops
[09:16:28] <Wumpus> if i hadn't read tolkien a long time ago, I certainly wouldn't be touching his stuff now, either :)
[09:16:28] * sbx thinks Darke's mind has been warped from all the usecode.
[09:16:31] * Wumpus loathes hype
[09:16:56] <sbx> Wumpus: what hype?
[09:17:05] <Darke> Dead booring. I never got further then the first book in the series. Hobbit was good, I feel asleep half way through volume one, and never touched it again. It's one of only 5 books I've never finished.
[09:17:34] <Wumpus> sbx- the films? :P
[09:18:10] <sbx> bah LotR and Silmarillion are much better than the Hobbit and LotR has few boring spots
[09:18:41] <Wumpus> hehe Silmarillion is heavy going
[09:18:43] <sbx> Wumpus: hmm strange thing is a havnt seen anything about the upcoming(?) films on tv except burger king commercials for cups
[09:18:55] <Wumpus> *shudder* TV :P
[09:18:58] * Wumpus won't touch the TV
[09:19:02] <sbx> yeah but it adds to Tolkien's world
[09:19:04] <Wumpus> just generalised hype *Shrug*
[09:19:14] <sbx> where else does hype come from?
[09:19:18] <Wumpus> sbx- sure, its good, but i just find it hard to keep track of the billion and one names ;-p
[09:19:53] <Wumpus> *shrug* I dunno, even had Special Offers from my credit card company and stuf; storefronts as well, etc... just pervasive *shrug*
[09:19:59] <Darke> sbx: It's the only book I have _forced_ myself to read. When I was reading it, I read between 1 to 3 'novels' a day (about 200-300 pages each, I'm a quick reader). I couldn't read LotR for more then 10 minutes or so and putting the book down to read a 'better' one.
[09:21:42] <sbx> Ah *boo hoo* the genius rabbitish speed-reader has been permanently scarred from such a horrible experience. :P
[09:22:38] <sbx> Wumpus: it must be far different over there than here, and i thought you got movies delayed
[09:22:38] * Darke earperks and looks at sbx weirdly. "Huh?"
[09:22:38] <Wumpus> sbx- its opening on the 26th
[09:22:41] <Wumpus> well
[09:22:48] <Wumpus> its opening to the public on the 26th
[09:22:53] <Wumpus> there's a *special* screening on the 21st
[09:23:17] <sbx> Darke: heh sorry that wasnt a good insult.. i just dont know how to respond to your offensive critique of one of my favorite series :-)
[09:23:27] <Wumpus> it depends on the movie, whether we get it at the same time as everyone else, or earlier, or later (when it is earlier, its usually only by some number of hours, for release that happend on the same day for everyone in the world :P)
[09:24:39] <Darke> sbx: <shrug> Not care? Detail the things you like? I'm talking to a good friend on another channel who absolutely _loves_ the LotR, she knows of my opinions, does it make any difference to her? <grin> Nope.
[09:24:47] <sbx> Wumpus: maybe it is just in my local area that we arent getting much publicity (or maybe its just me)
[09:25:10] <Wumpus> :)
[09:25:31] * Wumpus has gotten extremely skilled at avoiding publicity on campus, hehe :) I can be blithely ignorant of even qutie big things coming... :P
[09:25:45] <Wumpus> valuable university survival skill ;-p
[09:26:00] <Darke> Wumpus: Valuable. <grin>
[09:26:30] <sbx> Darke: I like the ending.
[09:26:37] <sbx> university survival skill? explain
[09:27:48] <Wumpus> *shrug* there's a lot of random publicity that you're best of avoiding, at least on my campus :)
[09:27:54] <Wumpus> or should I say "former" campus? :-)
[09:27:58] * Darke will probably watch the LotR movie when it comes out on DVD. It was mainly the rabbiting on and incredible verboseness of his 'world' descriptions that annoyed him.
[09:28:37] <sbx> Darke: hmm did you read Silmarillion too? it sounds like you would dislike that even more
[09:28:38] * Wumpus is not going to watch the movie any time soon... I'm not impressed at all by the trailer, and my general experience of movies-from-books that i like, is bad
[09:28:45] <Wumpus> urgh
[09:28:49] <Wumpus> that went and reminded me
[09:29:04] <Wumpus> if anyone here likes Terry Pratchett, *avoid the cartoons* like the play....
[09:29:08] <Wumpus> plague even
[09:29:10] <Darke> sbx: Yep. I stopped reading it quickly when I determined it was 'more of the same'. <sigh>
[09:29:39] <sbx> the only thing that makes me interested in the movie, from the ONE advertisement i saw for it, was "nostalgic value" aka seeing my favorite parts of the book rendered on screen
[09:29:48] <Darke> Wumpus: Why? <grin> Are they bad enough to be good? Or just bad?
[09:30:06] <Wumpus> darke- not bad enough to be good :P just plain bad imo
[09:30:25] * Wumpus is usually all for cartoonish renditions of fantasy stuff, but not the effort i saw at PTerry stuff
[09:30:29] <Darke> Wumpus: Like the Star Wars christmas special or something? <grin>
[09:30:40] <sbx> Wumpus: what do you think of Terry Pratchett?
[09:30:45] <Wumpus> hehe i've never seen that ;-p
[09:31:26] <Darke> Wumpus: I've only seen a few minutes, you probably don't want to. IIRC there's an 'official' website with them on it somewhere.
[09:31:34] <Wumpus> it wasn't so much dreadful, as completely and utterly different from the way i'd imagined the characters etc (the witchs in this case; the cartoon i saw was of... uhh... Wyrd Sisters I think? the one with the baby king
[09:31:50] <Wumpus> darke- so i've been told ;-p
[09:32:10] <Wumpus> sbx- I like his stuff, for the most part, but some of it is considerably less good, and it wears a little thin after a while
[09:32:13] <Darke> I saw a 'Neverending Story' cartoon. It wasn't too bad.
[09:32:40] * Wumpus loves some of the stuff in Hogfather, and Maskerade (sic) is just great :) but then, I loved Phantom of the Opera, too :-)
[09:33:45] * sbx remembers the Neverending Story... what a damn lie that was.
[09:35:09] --- Darke is now known as Darke|afk
[09:35:36] <Darke|afk> Back soon. <grin> I can continue my anti-LotR crusade then. <innocentwiggle>
[09:35:48] * sbx thought you were through. :-(
[09:35:56] <Wumpus> :)
[09:35:59] * sbx would rather talk about usecode anyway.
[09:36:05] * Wumpus waves around his selective ignore function ;-p
[09:36:09] <Wumpus> hehe
[09:37:04] <sbx> Wumpus you should dabble in The Usecode
[09:37:04] <sbx> it brings infinite power, so i am told
[09:37:44] * Wumpus is curious indeed
[09:37:49] <Wumpus> :)
[09:37:56] <sbx> and Darke|afk's ucxt -fa output is pretty easy to understand after you study it for a bit
[09:39:26] <sbx> i still have to look at the interpretor code though, if i want to see how it really works
[09:41:42] <sbx> uh oh
[09:41:50] <sbx> ucxt: include/opcodes.h:120: UCOpcodeData::UCOpcodeData(const class vector<basic_string<char,string_char_traits<char>,__default_alloc_template<true,0> >,__default_alloc_template<true,0> > &): Assertion `v.size()==10' failed.
[09:42:29] <Wumpus> hmm :)
[09:43:19] <Wumpus> I dunno, but surely that can't be hard to find out; if its thesis stuff, then yeah, Geoff would probably be the person to talk to; but she's finished her thesis, no?
[09:43:23] --- Darke|afk is now known as Darke
[09:43:24] <Wumpus> argh, sorry :-(
[09:43:33] * Wumpus is naughty
[09:43:34] <Darke> sbx: What function?
[09:45:29] * Darke points out that, that 'anti-LotR crusade' was, what's known as a 'joke' in most civilised parts of the internet. <grin>
[09:46:50] <Wumpus> civilised? internet?
[09:46:56] * Wumpus 's brain segfaults
[09:47:14] <Darke> <grin> Hunt around, there are a few bastions of civilisation out there.
[09:47:44] <sbx> empath abbey, lycaeum, and serpents hold are the only bastions of civilisation i have heard of
[09:48:02] <sbx> Darke: i tried rebuilding ucxt to see if that was the problem but it still fails, any function or no function
[09:48:28] <sbx> just typing ucxt does it as well
[09:48:33] * Wumpus begs to differ on "Serpent's Hold" :P
[09:50:17] <Darke> sbx: Hmm... just a sec. I'll commit my latest changes, some code cleanup and a bug fix, which may be what you're tripping over. Have you tried a 'make clean; make' in the ucxt directory?
[09:50:38] <sbx> no rule to make target clean
[09:50:48] <sbx> you mean exult directory?
[09:51:02] <sbx> wait...
[09:51:05] <Darke> No. just in the ucxt directory. ucxt is not connected to the exult configure system yet.
[09:51:17] <sbx> hehe make -f makefile.unix clean
[09:51:48] <sbx> but i think i already tried it.. ill try again
[09:52:59] <Darke> sbx: Have you been modifying Docs/opcodes.txt? It looks like an assertion fail there. The error handling for that file isn't up to scratch yet, and I find it easy to get it wrong.
[09:58:22] <sbx> Darke: no.. it was the make clean which i had failed to do earlier, it works not :-)
[09:59:06] * sbx notes that there is a function which seems to only be used in deciding whether an NPC calls the Avatar milord or milady.
[09:59:15] <Darke> No problem. <grin> I need to link it into the configure system so the dependencies are setup properly.
[09:59:24] * Darke nods.
[10:00:27] <Wumpus> how is it compiled at the moment? just cd to the right directory and make -f makefile.unix ? (assuming everything esle has been built cleanly)?
[10:01:04] <Darke> Yep. It needs a couple of .o files from exult, so if they're build cleanly, it should work.
[10:01:26] * Wumpus considers adding it to exult-tools :)
[10:01:37] <sbx> Darke: hehe if(is_pc_female(arg0)) return("milady") else return("milord") is compressed down to 2d bytes
[10:01:53] <Wumpus> where does it search for opcodes.txt? in the CWD?
[10:01:55] * Darke nods.
[10:02:28] <Darke> In the cwd under Docs, also you can modify your .exult.cfg according to Docs/ucxtread.txt to have it locate itself.
[10:02:36] <Wumpus> was that nod to me? :P
[10:02:43] <Wumpus> oh okay :)
[10:02:47] * Wumpus hmms
[10:02:56] <Wumpus> it'd be nice to be able to set up a global default .exult.cfg
[10:03:02] <Darke> Wumpus: the nod was to sbx. <grin>
[10:03:10] <Wumpus> for packaging purposes, that is
[10:03:11] <sbx> Darke: in the future will my re-running configure mean that ucxt needs to be rebuilt? :-|
[10:03:27] <sbx> Wumpus: ~/.exult.cfg?
[10:04:00] <Wumpus> sbx- well, a global default, with appropriate paths etc set; and each user gets a copy of that when they install exult
[10:04:01] <Darke> sbx: No, it shouldn't. IIRC it was because I changed the format of something in the headers and the make didn't pick it up properly because it doesn't do dependances right.
[10:04:16] <Wumpus> or perhaps even better, have the user config source the global one, and then use the user one to override various things
[10:04:38] <Wumpus> but thats a minor niggle to do One Of These Days when exult is working beautifully ;-p
[10:05:39] <sbx> Darke: no i mean when you tie ucxt to the global configure system
[10:06:00] <sbx> how well has your package been received Wumpus
[10:06:47] <Darke> sbx: No, all you'd have to do then, would be to go to the usecode/ucxt directory and type 'make' and Things Will Work(tm). You can do that currently with any directory, there's just not much of a point at the moment. <grin>
[10:06:49] <Wumpus> I dunno :P
[10:06:52] <sbx> package(s)
[10:07:01] <Wumpus> i have't publicised exult-tools yet, if thats what you mean
[10:07:30] <sbx> Darke: but i mean, if i type "make" and then rerun configure.. and then want to update ucxt a bit and type "make" will it want to remake the entire thing?
[10:07:37] <Wumpus> and the exult one is only a slightly modified version of the one that used to exist, and exists now for the other distros
[10:07:49] <Wumpus> cvs server: warning: usecode/ucxt/makefile.dos is not (any longer) pertinent
[10:07:54] <Wumpus> ?
[10:07:55] <Darke> sbx: Not if you run 'make' from the usecode/ucxt directory.
[10:07:58] <Wumpus> no longer supporting dos? :P
[10:08:01] <sbx> Darke: ok
[10:08:24] <sbx> if there is only one current deb package then i assumed you would get some input Wumpus
[10:08:38] <sbx> like if someone had trouble installing it
[10:09:01] <Wumpus> sbx- well, the thing is, theres also a deb in the main distribution, which i didn't know about until a few days ago :|
[10:09:02] <Darke> Wumpus: Nope. The .dos and .unix files were originally seperate when I had problems with DJGPP when I first used it. I eventually fixed it, and both files were identical, I just forgot to remove the file for 12 months or so.
[10:09:17] <Wumpus> hehe darke
[10:09:34] <sbx> Darke are you going to change makefile.unix to Makefile?
[10:09:40] * Wumpus hasn't got any feedback on it, anyway... although, i don't monitor the discussion board very closely at all
[10:09:43] <Darke> In fact the makefile.dos would not work at all, since it was hopelessly out of date.
[10:10:00] <sbx> Wumpus: that may be a good sign :-)
[10:10:27] <Darke> sbx: Nope. 'Makefile' is automatically deleted when you do a make distclean, and it won't automatically commit to cvs. I'm leaving it as it is, until I get configure set up.
[10:10:34] <Wumpus> I hope so ;-p
[10:10:45] <Wumpus> oh hey, dancer is still around, oops
[10:10:59] <sbx> hehe
[10:11:06] <Wumpus> should probably have talked to him re the debian package... oh well, too late now ;-p
[10:11:16] <Wumpus> (he's not the official maintainer though, thats yet another person :P)
[10:11:42] <sbx> what will be in exult tools?
[10:12:09] <Wumpus> currently exult_studio, and also ucc or whatever the other binary that is produced by make install is...
[10:12:38] <Wumpus> basically, anything that might be of interest to people hacking around on exult games :-) uctxt certainly will go there, and a compiler if there is one, etc...
[10:12:45] <Wumpus> expack should probably go in, too, for example
[10:13:33] <sbx> expack gets installed by make install
[10:13:40] * Wumpus notes that debian/README.debian didn't go away... hehe, thats probably on account of the way cvs works, d'oh
[10:13:47] <Wumpus> sbx- uhh, not in my experience
[10:13:50] <sbx> as does shapetest and paltest
[10:14:03] <Wumpus> shapetest and paltest were removed recently, no?
[10:14:17] <Wumpus> in any case, they don't seem to do anything, so i removed them from my two file lists
[10:14:27] <Wumpus> (their deprecated, arent' they?)
[10:14:55] <sbx> if i to ls -rt to /usr/local/bin they show up after 'links', which as you know, i only installed recently
[10:15:03] <sbx> s/if i to/if i do
[10:15:05] <Wumpus> the gimp plugin probably *won't* go in, until such time as *someone* picks up the gimp debian package... 'cos there's currently no "current" gimp for debian (the most current package is 1.0.4 or somesuch)
[10:15:20] <Wumpus> hmm, interesting
[10:15:33] <sbx> there is no current gimp for debian? hmm theres another package for you to make
[10:16:16] <Wumpus> CVS has been split into two brancehs, right?
[10:16:58] <Wumpus> sbx- umm, yeah I could do that, but I don't have the time right now to support something as significant as gimp; exult is relatively easy (I hope ;-p); even once it stabilises, it won't be coming out with new versions every few days :)
[10:17:09] <sbx> i see
[10:18:28] * Wumpus also doesn't feel like finding out how to become a Real Maintainer at this time
[10:18:48] <sbx> too late
[10:19:10] <Wumpus> One thing I do want to do, is set up a script to build CVS of exult package for debian, with appropriate versions (the last bit is the one thats slightly tricky)
[10:19:27] <Wumpus> nah, with Real Maintainer, I meant one of the people who upload into the distributions that go all over everywhere ;-p
[10:19:58] <sbx> too late
[10:21:24] <sbx> you have gone too far, you will eventually be a Real Maintainer, like it or not
[10:21:38] <Wumpus> oh eventually, sure :)
[10:21:43] <Wumpus> just not Right Now
[10:21:52] <sbx> of Exult of course
[10:22:28] <Wumpus> and freeciv, maybe :)
[10:22:52] <sbx> when was the last update of that?
[10:23:16] <Wumpus> in the main repository? uhh...
[10:23:34] <sbx> i mean by the developers
[10:23:39] <Wumpus> Version: 1.12.0-0.1
[10:23:44] <Wumpus> ... quite recent
[10:23:52] <Wumpus> oh, freeciv is pretty much being continuously developed, still
[10:24:02] <Wumpus> as my ever growing freeciv email folder shows :P
[10:24:18] <Wumpus> (which i never read)
[10:24:33] <sbx> bugfix or feature adding? what type of features do they add?
[10:24:58] <Wumpus> as i said, i never read it, nor do i play it at the moment :)
[10:25:22] <Wumpus> hmm the deb hasn't been downloaded since the new one was put up ;-p
[10:25:43] --- ChanServ takes channel operator status from wjp|work
[10:25:53] * Wumpus hits nickserv
[10:26:19] <sbx> what kinda feature do you guess they wouldve added?
[10:26:53] * Wumpus is setting up exult build, just a sec :) (keep having to browse over configure options to get what i want... :P)
[10:27:32] <Wumpus> okay there it goes
[10:27:51] <Darke> sbx: Read the changelog? <grin>
[10:29:07] <Wumpus> bah stupid mail cleaning gadget
[10:29:41] <Wumpus> sbx- various enhancements to "utilities" mainly, by the looks of it... as well as rule fixes, and there's a concerted effort to make good "anti ICS' rules possible
[10:30:02] <Wumpus> (ICS -> Infinite City Sprawl. Smallpox. If you've very played a civ, you've met this, under some name :P)
[10:30:41] <Wumpus> utilities is perhaps the wrong word... GUI stuff improved, and various ways of using it improved ,as it were, to make managing things easier (in theory ;-p)
[10:32:38] <sbx> Wumpus: heh Darke's idea was good... you shouldnt delay exult build to tell me what theyve changed in freeciv :-)
[10:33:01] <Wumpus> *nod*
[10:33:04] <sbx> Darke: but im not that interested... so I think I wont heh
[10:33:08] * Wumpus is updating freeciv as well anyway :)
[10:33:33] * Darke snickers.
[10:33:37] * sbx only really played it once.
[10:33:42] <sbx> or twice
[10:34:02] <Wumpus> hehe :)
[10:34:13] <Wumpus> freeciv is cool ,i played it for a long time, and will probably again when i have some time :)
[10:35:11] * Wumpus notes that the ChangeLog is not kept up to date... mhm, maybe its cvs logs are though
[10:35:20] <Wumpus> hehe nope, they aren't either
[10:35:23] <Wumpus> :|
[10:35:32] <Wumpus> oh well, you're out of luck ;-p
[10:36:07] <Darke> Look at the main freeciv page? I'm sure they'll list what's 'new' in the latest versions.
[10:36:17] * sbx doesn't play many games.
[10:36:20] <Wumpus> www.freeciv.org ;-p
[10:36:52] <Wumpus> oooooh
[10:36:59] <Wumpus> No match for "WWW.EXULT.ORG".
[10:37:03] <Wumpus> >>> Last update of whois database: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:05:36 EST <<<
[10:37:07] <Wumpus> register it! :-)
[10:38:03] * Darke snickers.
[10:38:05] <Wumpus> huh, no, this is weird
[10:38:10] <Wumpus> oh
[10:38:10] <Wumpus> stupid me
[10:38:17] <Wumpus> you don't include the www. when you whois :|
[10:39:05] <Wumpus> d'oh, its held by NSI (exult.org that is)
[10:39:09] <Wumpus> on behalf of.....
[10:39:18] <Wumpus> EXULT, INC. (EXULT3-DOM)
[10:39:27] * Darke figured it would be since it's a 'common' dictionary word.
[10:39:33] <Wumpus> (whoever they are)
[10:39:37] <Wumpus> *nod*
[10:40:13] <sbx> exult.sourceforge.net is easy enough
[10:40:21] <Wumpus> *nod*
[10:41:12] <Wumpus> exult.sf.net works too, of course :)
[10:42:06] <Wumpus> bah, www.exult.org doesn't have a DNS entry though... stupid :|
[10:43:00] <Wumpus> woah
[10:43:37] <Wumpus> exult.net went a little enthusiastic on the <meta name="Keywords" ...> tag :|
[11:02:06] <-- matto has left IRC ("Play Dragon's Lair in linux - http://www.daphne-emu.com - Developers welcome :)")
[11:02:53] <-- sbx has left IRC (sterling.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[11:03:07] --> matto has joined #exult
[11:04:26] --> sbx has joined #exult
[11:04:28] <sbx> bah
[11:04:46] <sbx> humbug
[11:04:59] <matto> indeed
[11:08:49] * Darke paws sbx a small, black, oblong lolly with white stripes. "Here."
[11:10:40] --> Wumpus_ has joined #exult
[11:10:53] <Wumpus_> hmmmm
[11:10:59] * Darke bows to the Wumpus clone.
[11:11:11] <Wumpus_> Maybe this'll help the incurable typing-in-the-wrong channel thing... different coloured status bar :)
[11:11:14] <-- Wumpus_ has left IRC (Client Quit)
[11:12:05] <Wumpus> the real wumpus bows to darke :)
[11:12:40] <Darke> Wumpus: Not likely. I've discovered that the only way not to Mav is too... like, actually pay attention to which window you're typing in. <grin>
[11:12:58] <Wumpus> :)
[11:13:07] <Wumpus> well, its all the same window
[11:13:26] <Wumpus> its just that the only difference between the active one and the others, is that there's a little more info on the active one
[11:13:35] * sbx wonders what the lolly Darke gave him is made of and stuffs it in his pocket for future examination. "Thanks! :-)"
[11:13:38] <Wumpus> on the status bar of the more active one, that is
[11:13:45] * Darke sighs, it also helps to disable any 'easy' cut&paste programs as well.
[11:14:08] <Darke> sbx: It's a 'humbug'. It's aniseed flavoured. They're not bad.
[11:14:33] * sbx stares at Darke blankly.
[11:17:03] <sbx> Thanks! :-)
[11:21:01] <sbx> does anyone here like the "Whitesmiths Style"?
[11:22:06] <sbx> or not
[11:26:30] * Darke has no idea what you're talking about. <grin>
[11:27:38] <sbx> for C
[11:28:51] <sbx> a coding style
[11:29:04] <Darke> No, not GNU. <grin> I reserve special loathing for the GNU style. I use Allman style and the occasional K&R style piece of code.
[11:29:11] <Darke> s/not/nor/
[11:29:33] <sbx> Whitesmiths Style has the braces further right then GNU
[11:29:44] <sbx> aligned with the block
[11:30:08] <sbx> hmm
[11:30:21] <sbx> i just noticed with that spelling correction the meaning of your sentence has changed :-)
[11:30:59] <sbx> well i think GNU looks erm.. "different" but i can read it more easily than Whitesmiths
[11:31:13] * Darke was distracted by something in another window and didn't get a change to rescan for errors. <grin>
[11:31:13] <sbx> i mentioned it after looking at bgpatch3/usecode.uc
[11:31:35] <sbx> bgpatch3/usecode.uc looks kinda like the style
[11:32:12] <sbx> does Jeff Freedman code exult like that too or just this new usecode script?
[11:32:33] <sbx> or did someone else do this even
[11:34:23] <Darke> He codes exult like that too, from memory. <grin> I haven't looked at exult's code for a month or two.
[11:34:41] <Wumpus> heh
[11:34:54] <Wumpus> stupid style guidelines :| everyone uses something different
[11:35:04] <sbx> nice.. i guess :-)... anyway...
[11:35:07] <sbx> yeah
[11:35:12] <sbx> Darke: SOMETHING_GOES_HERE() ?
[11:35:28] <sbx> -fz output... does that replace smth?
[11:36:20] <Wumpus> hehe
[11:36:22] <sbx> Wumpus: I think I use Allman style, with a few quirks thrown in to maintain consistency where I can help it.
[11:36:33] <Wumpus> SOMETHING_GOES_HERE().... my code looks like that too quite often :)
[11:36:41] <Darke> Nope. It means there should be a variable popped from the stack that goes there. But there isn't. All the variable pushing statments haven't been 'properly' coded yet.
[11:36:41] <sbx> hehe
[11:37:13] * Wumpus hasn't ever really gone in for looking at proper style guides, I suppose i should one day
[11:37:34] <sbx> i only stumbled across them at jargon file a few weeks ago
[11:39:08] <sbx> Wumpus: here is a typical assignment for me: strange_hack_variable = just_do_it(DO_SOMETHING_FLAG) /* FIXME: fix it */
[11:39:23] <Wumpus> :)
[11:39:34] <Wumpus> mmm hacks
[11:39:52] * sbx notices that wouldnt work anyway missing a semicolon.
[11:39:57] <sbx> heh yes
[11:40:09] <sbx> i really dont use them much though
[11:40:12] <sbx> ... hones
[11:40:12] <sbx> t
[11:42:11] <Darke> Not really, it's a hack, so the semicolon could be on the line below it. <grin>
[11:43:51] <sbx> " ; /* <- FIXME: remove hack (but only if someone complains) */"
[11:44:04] <-- wjp|work has left IRC ("[x]chat")
[11:44:13] <Wumpus> :)
[11:44:33] * Wumpus wonders if, if he ever picked up AGIx, whether he'd recognise the code again
[11:44:43] <sbx> AGIx?
[11:44:50] <Wumpus> i put a lot of time into that some time ago... an AGI interpreter for linux using liballegro...
[11:44:59] <sbx> AGI?
[11:45:02] <Wumpus> (AGI = the old Sierra games... quite a lot of them)
[11:45:27] <sbx> you mean LSL and KQ were made in AGI or something?
[11:46:01] <Wumpus> eg, the "middle" vesrion of Kq1, KQ2, KQ3, an extremely rare version of KQ4, LSL1, LSL2, GR, many others
[11:46:06] <Wumpus> yeah :)
[11:46:24] <sbx> what does it look like?
[11:46:33] <sbx> hmm since you were wondering i guess you dont know
[11:46:45] <Wumpus> there's an existing interpreter for them ,but I've tried it and was rather unimpressed
[11:46:58] <Wumpus> what does the code look like? uhh... not terribly good... how do you describe code? :P
[11:47:00] <matto> Wumpus: what's so rare about the AGI KQ4?
[11:47:08] <matto> that's what my version is (the Apple ][gs version)
[11:47:26] <Wumpus> Its not even CVS'd, just a number of different versions, etc... ahh, i only learnt about it much later
[11:47:33] <Wumpus> matto- hmm, perhaps the PC version is rare?
[11:47:41] <matto> Wumpus: that must be it :)
[11:47:41] <Wumpus> in any case, the only PC version i've ever seen was the SCI one
[11:47:59] <matto> so you know how to interpret AGI?
[11:48:01] <Wumpus> i've seen an AGI *demo* for it, hehe :)
[11:48:19] <Wumpus> roughly, yeah; what i have works quite well
[11:48:33] <matto> it's all vector based, right?
[11:48:44] <Wumpus> the graphics, yes
[11:49:20] <Wumpus> um actually, not sure about some of the figures (EG the player, etc...) can't quite remember for those, I think that may have been bitmaps
[11:49:23] <matto> I was investigating adding an opengl driver to FreeSCI but discovered that the design didn't really allow for it
[11:49:41] <Wumpus> oh you did FreeSCI?
[11:49:59] * Wumpus looked at that years ago and couldn't get it to compile, IIRC... heh e:P
[11:50:04] <sbx> Darke:
[11:50:11] <Wumpus> then again, if it didn't work immediately, I was pretty much stuck back then ;-p
[11:50:18] <sbx> s/Darke:/Darke?
[11:50:28] * Wumpus knows a little more about digging himself out of trouble, now... or at least, I like to pretend I do :-)
[11:50:41] * matto clenchs his fists.. "What the heck is wrong with my DNS tonight?"
[11:50:56] <matto> Wumpus: no I didn't do freesci .. I was just looking at the code to see about adding an opengl driver
[11:50:57] * Darke earperks, hearing his name mentioned.
[11:51:05] <Wumpus> oh i see :)
[11:51:24] <matto> of course it would make more sense for me to work on sarien since that plays the games I grew up on (the apple ][gs games)
[11:51:37] <Wumpus> :)
[11:51:51] <Wumpus> has sarien made any progress recently, do you know? it was rather dodgy when i tried it...
[11:52:00] <sbx> Darke: hmm.. i think i figured it out... are arguments to a function supposed to be represented as variables?
[11:52:32] * sbx has some Ultima roms for Apple
[11:52:54] <Wumpus> :)
[11:53:09] <sbx> but i think i forgot to reinstall any emulator
[11:53:33] <sbx> Darke: ex. 931
[11:54:33] <Darke> sbx: I'm currently fuzzy on that. <grin> Give me a few minutes, I'm juggling half a dozen windows at the moment.
[11:54:37] <sbx> Darke: argc 5, localc 1, it pushes 4 "variables" at the start
[11:54:39] <sbx> Darke: ok
[11:55:28] * Wumpus thinks darke is fuzzy anyway
[11:55:40] <sbx> thats fluffy
[11:55:59] <matto> Wumpus: can you get to http://sarien.sourceforge.net ? I can't :(
[11:56:59] <Wumpus> yep
[11:57:07] * matto clenches his fist
[11:57:17] <Wumpus> its just sf.net/projects/sarien
[11:57:37] <matto> I restarted my DNS server and poof.. it works
[11:57:49] <Wumpus> hehe
[11:58:01] <sbx> you use your own DNS server?
[11:58:02] <Darke> sbx: Yes, it should. From vague memory the first 'n' local variables are the values passed to the function, and the rest are the local variables.
[11:58:05] <Wumpus> starlink's DNS now down for going on two weeks :-(
[11:58:17] * Wumpus has his own DNS cache
[11:58:31] <sbx> Darke: 'n' being argc?
[11:58:49] <sbx> Wumpus: Impressive!
[11:58:56] <sbx> ...
[11:59:03] <sbx> :-)
[11:59:16] <Wumpus> sbx?
[11:59:24] <sbx> Wumpus?
[11:59:29] <Wumpus> its not that uncommon; very handy on a modem
[11:59:32] <Darke> sbx: .argc is the first 'n', then .localc. The total number of local variables are .argc+.localc.
[12:00:12] <sbx> Darke: that is what i said, thank you :-)
[12:00:37] <sbx> Wumpus: oh.. do you configure bind to do it?
[12:00:48] <Wumpus> yeah
[12:01:01] <Wumpus> or rather, just drop in one of the supplied config files and tweak as necssary :)
[12:01:01] <Darke> sbx: No problem. <grin> I tend to overexplain as you've probably noticed.
[12:01:10] <sbx> Darke: it is a good thing
[12:01:20] <sbx> Wumpus: they are supplied with bind?
[12:01:44] <Wumpus> possibly, but with the debian package certainly; or failing that, there's a HOWTO for it
[12:01:49] <Wumpus> (Both bind and a caching only nameserver)
[12:02:31] <sbx> but your caching only nameserver is implemented via bind ?
[12:02:42] <Wumpus> yes
[12:02:59] <Wumpus> (I meant that I thought there was a separate HOWTO for caching-only one, but it appears i was mistaken
[12:03:19] <sbx> with a slow DNS from your ISP... how much faster is the local cache?
[12:04:01] <Wumpus> the local cache is pretty much instant if the record is there; normal lookup is at least 100ms, often much more
[12:04:40] <Wumpus> (of course, once its looked up once, teh ISP caches it too, but it still helps, very noticably)
[12:05:02] <Wumpus> d
[12:05:16] <Wumpus> DNS-HOWTO section 3 I think is enough to set up a caching-only one
[12:05:20] <sbx> it is consistently over 100ms for me
[12:05:36] <Wumpus> after that, it gets technically a lot more... interesting :P
[12:06:12] <Wumpus> well the 100ms was just a wild guess, really, I've never actually measured it; you're probably right, adn that it would usually be much more
[12:06:22] <Wumpus> can't measure it now accurately either, since I'm DLing like mad :)
[12:10:01] <sbx> Wumpus: no i mean mine is incredibly slow
[12:10:37] <sbx> it was not that slow with my last ISP
[12:11:10] <Wumpus> it would probably be worth having a shot at setting up bind that way then; the only problem is that it gets flushed everytime you reboot. This may or may not be an issue for you :)
[12:11:58] <Wumpus> s/it gets flushed/the cache gets flushed/
[12:12:29] <sbx> would it not be possible to save it/reload it between boots?
[12:12:40] <Wumpus> hehe
[12:12:58] <sbx> i tend to reboot frequently for No Reason At All
[12:13:13] <sbx> but i guess i could stop doing that :P
[12:13:27] <Wumpus> not without hacking bind :P its one of the FAQs in the HOWTO; the point is, that the entries expire quite often anyway (so if you visit a site only daily, its quite likely going to get re-fetched anyway)...
[12:13:37] <Wumpus> you could also circumvent that by a little hacking *shrug*
[12:14:00] <Wumpus> I don't know how little ;-p
[12:14:49] <sbx> hmm.. ok i have a terrible lack of knowledge of hostname resolution then, we arent just referring to caching what ip numbers certain names point to are we?
[12:15:15] <sbx> if we were.. then why would they need to be re-fetched
[12:15:23] <Wumpus> yeah, thats just what it does (both ways, ie both hostname -> IP and IP -> hostname)
[12:15:41] <sbx> but most servers dont make changing their address a habit
[12:16:07] <Wumpus> well, that information expires, and for whatever reason (I don't know why this is), it expires quite frequently
[12:16:25] <sbx> what is quite frequently?
[12:16:30] * Wumpus doesn't really know what kind of periods we're talking about here, and its certainly configurable (by the "master" for that address)
[12:16:36] * Wumpus checks
[12:18:02] * sbx is wondering if it expires once or several times between cache flushes, or if i will be flushing the chache more often
[12:18:32] <Wumpus> hrmm, damn, I used to know how to look this up...
[12:18:35] <sbx> s/if i/if he if you insist i maintain third person in /me's :-)
[12:19:59] <Wumpus> :)
[12:20:05] <Wumpus> SOA record is what shows it
[12:20:08] <Wumpus> now to interpret the results :)
[12:21:29] <Wumpus> hmm 'refresh' is how often it would check again
[12:21:39] <Wumpus> which is as low as an hour for www.unsw.edu.au :-(
[12:22:32] <Wumpus> and that seems pretty typical (google, sf)
[12:23:32] * sbx has no idea what you just did but thank you. :-)
[12:23:59] <Wumpus> well :) the point is, "1 hour" is the answer to your question :P
[12:24:14] <sbx> if i use the same cache without rebooting, it will not try to refresh every hour locally will it?
[12:24:24] <Wumpus> browse over the DNS-HOWTO :) it goes into painfully scrupulous detail in parts, but its good to get an idea of what in there
[12:24:35] <Wumpus> it will :|
[12:24:50] <sbx> then why bother flushing the cache on reboot?
[12:25:06] <Wumpus> well it doesn't actively flush it
[12:25:15] <Wumpus> it just doesn't get saved ;-p
[12:25:32] <sbx> oh
[12:26:07] <sbx> ive only installed Linux-mini-HOWTOs :-)
[12:26:18] <sbx> but i will read the DNS-HOWTO soon
[12:26:20] <Wumpus> hehe
[12:27:00] <Wumpus> HOWTOs in general are a great reference, albeit that many of them are pretty heavy going in parts... *shrug* a decent pager with a search function (less! yay:)) is vital :P
[12:27:45] <Wumpus> oh wow, the compile beat the DL to finishing
[12:27:53] <Wumpus> but now, the DL is also almost done, so I'll be off... cy a:)
[12:27:56] <-- Wumpus has left IRC ("No windows for this server")
[12:31:13] <sbx> Darke have you decided if you are going to make an assembler for ucxt -fa output?
[12:35:02] <Darke> sbx: It's still in the 'not likely' pile. In other words, if sometime in the future I feel like making one, I will. However it'll be more then likely after I 'finish' ucxt, so the point may then be moot. <grin>
[12:36:23] <sbx> Alright I will try to do it then.
[17:13:28] --> exultbot has joined #exult
[17:13:28] --- Topic for #exult is: exult: For those who are bored with Ultima 7's bugs, <fluff> and want some new ones.
[17:13:28] --- Topic for #exult set by Darke at Sat Dec 1 15:01:00 2001
[17:13:48] <Darke> Admittedly it was recursive, so I wasn't sure in which recursion it was failing, but arugh!
[17:14:09] <Indiana_Threepwood> exultbot?
[17:14:15] <Indiana_Threepwood> exultbot: hi
[17:14:15] <exultbot> Hi Indiana_Threepwood!
[17:14:29] <Indiana_Threepwood> lol
[17:14:36] <Indiana_Threepwood> exultbot: how are you?
[17:14:36] <exultbot> buggy
[17:15:04] <Indiana_Threepwood> exultbot: do you understand me?
[17:15:09] <exultbot> of course
[17:15:32] <Indiana_Threepwood> exultbot: are you actually a person behind a keyboard?
[17:15:35] * Darke thinks that the bot's owner cheated on that last one. <grin>
[17:15:39] <exultbot> no, I'm a bot
[17:16:13] <Indiana_Threepwood> are you sure?
[17:16:14] <Darke> And that one. <grin>
[17:16:25] <wjp> he's here for logging the conversation
[17:16:30] <wjp> and also for things like:
[17:16:32] <wjp> ?seen Fingolfin
[17:16:32] <exultbot> fingolfin left IRC around Mon Dec 3 23:05:15 2001 (GMT) ("good night")
[17:16:44] <Colourless> ?name
[17:16:44] <exultbot> Greetings Avatar. I am called Exultbot.
[17:16:44] <Indiana_Threepwood> hehe
[17:16:47] <Colourless> ?job
[17:16:47] <exultbot> My job is to write down everything you say.
[17:16:53] <Indiana_Threepwood> =)
[17:16:59] <Indiana_Threepwood> exultbot: Darke
[17:17:00] <Colourless> ?bye
[17:17:00] <exultbot> Goodbye, Avatar.
[17:17:17] <Darke> ?seen Darke
[17:17:17] <exultbot> That's you!
[17:17:28] <Darke> ?seen me
[17:17:28] <exultbot> I haven't seen me lately
[17:17:32] <Colourless> ?seen exultbot
[17:17:32] <exultbot> That's me!
[17:17:38] * Darke looks innocent.
[17:17:38] <wjp> there's no mirror in there :-)
[17:17:44] <wjp> (wherever that is :-) )
[17:17:51] <Indiana_Threepwood> exultbot: are you human?
[17:18:00] <exultbot> no
[17:18:11] <exultbot> there's been some discussion on the subject, though
[17:18:13] <Colourless> ?help
[17:18:23] <Colourless> ?ultima
[17:18:23] <exultbot> Ultima is an epic RPG game series created by Origin.
[17:18:39] <wjp> maybe I should change that to Richard Garriott
[17:18:47] <Indiana_Threepwood> lol
[17:18:57] <Indiana_Threepwood> ?seen Darke
[17:18:57] <exultbot> darke is right here!
[17:19:03] <Darke> wjp: That would probably be more accurate. <grin>
[17:19:09] <Darke> ?seen SharpTooth
[17:19:09] <exultbot> sharptooth is right here!
[17:19:13] <Indiana_Threepwood> ?help
[17:19:17] <wjp> eek
[17:19:18] <Indiana_Threepwood> ?uo2
[17:19:24] <wjp> SharpTooth is where?
[17:19:30] * Darke ROFLs.
[17:19:37] <Colourless> ?seen wjosdfg
[17:19:37] <exultbot> I haven't seen wjosdfg lately
[17:19:41] <Indiana_Threepwood> ?Darke
[17:19:47] <Indiana_Threepwood> oops
[17:19:47] <Indiana_Threepwood> ?seen Darke
[17:19:47] <exultbot> darke is right here!
[17:19:53] <Colourless> why the hell does it think sharptooth is here???
[17:20:01] --- Darke is now known as SharpTooth
[17:20:05] <wjp> I might have to reset some things when I restart it :-)
[17:20:05] <SharpTooth> ?seen Darke
[17:20:05] <exultbot> darke is known as SharpTooth since Tue Dec 4 17:20:01 2001 (GMT)
[17:20:06] <Colourless> ?seen Darke
[17:20:06] <exultbot> darke is known as SharpTooth since Tue Dec 4 17:20:01 2001 (GMT)
[17:20:21] <-- SharpTooth has left #exult ()
[17:20:25] <wjp> *sigh*
[17:20:28] --> Darke has joined #exult
[17:20:32] <wjp> not really feeling like it tonight, though
[17:20:34] <Darke> ?seen SharpTooth
[17:20:34] <exultbot> sharptooth left #exult around Tue Dec 4 17:20:21 2001 (GMT)
[17:20:36] <Colourless> ?seen sbx
[17:20:36] <exultbot> sbx is right here!
[17:20:36] <Indiana_Threepwood> LOL
[17:20:38] <Darke> ?seen Darke
[17:20:38] <exultbot> That's you!
[17:20:59] <Indiana_Threepwood> exultbot: ?seen wjp
[17:20:59] <exultbot> wjp is right here!
[17:21:26] <wjp> I guess it doesn't remember to forget some of its state when it is disconnected
[17:21:37] <Indiana_Threepwood> exultbot: ?help
[17:22:01] <Indiana_Threepwood> ?exultbot
[17:22:01] <exultbot> Exultbot is written in Perl by Willem Jan Palenstijn.
[17:22:04] <Darke> Hmm... seems to be working now. If it happens to match by ip address, it might get confused by my split personalities. <fangygrin>
[17:22:19] <wjp> no, nothing fancy like that
[17:22:22] <Indiana_Threepwood> lol
[17:22:31] <Indiana_Threepwood> exultbot: ?seen Sharptooth
[17:22:31] <exultbot> sharptooth left #exult around Tue Dec 4 17:20:21 2001 (GMT)
[17:22:48] <Darke> if(!(pushi(0001) == UcEvent)) goto labelFunc_0038;
[17:23:04] <Darke> That look more like usecode-script? <grin>
[17:23:05] <Indiana_Threepwood> exultbot: ?seen Yazman
[17:23:05] <exultbot> I haven't seen yazman lately
[17:23:11] <wjp> who?
[17:23:21] <Darke> ?who?
[17:23:41] <Indiana_Threepwood> ?seen exultbot
[17:23:41] <exultbot> That's me!
[17:23:41] <Darke> ?who is Darke
[17:24:02] <Darke> wjp: You need a 'who is' command with descriptions of the regulars and what they do. <grin>
[17:24:02] <exultbot> Darke is someone who's trying to be funny atm ;-)
[17:24:04] <Indiana_Threepwood> ?seen Willem Jan Palestijn
[17:24:04] <exultbot> I haven't seen willem lately
[17:24:30] <wjp> bah, sure he's seen me
[17:24:37] * wjp thinks exultbot is going blind :-)
[17:24:43] <Indiana_Threepwood> ?who is Indiana_Threepwood
[17:24:49] <Darke> exultbot: Trying? Guessing by your amused look, I'm also succeeding!
[17:24:57] <exultbot> that would be you
[17:25:10] * Colourless things exultbot doesn't know that wjp = willem jan palestijn
[17:25:28] * wjp thinks Colourless can't spell that name correctly ;-)
[17:25:33] <Indiana_Threepwood> lol
[17:25:47] <Indiana_Threepwood> ?who is wjp
[17:26:02] * wjp exultbot say #exult the man behind the curtain. Don't mind him ;-)
[17:26:07] <wjp> OOPS
[17:26:10] <exultbot> the man behind the curtain. Don't mind him ;-)
[17:26:15] * Darke laughs maniacly.
[17:26:15] <wjp> that's what I meant ;-)
[17:27:09] * Indiana_Threepwood exultbot say w00t
[17:27:39] <exultbot> w00t?
[17:27:55] <exultbot> keep trying ;-)
[17:28:06] * Indiana_Threepwood exultbot say Everquest SUCKS!
[17:28:23] * exultbot never played everquest
[17:28:46] <Indiana_Threepwood> hehe
[17:29:12] <Indiana_Threepwood> ?who is wjp
[17:29:28] <exultbot> you just asked that a minute ago
[17:30:10] * Colourless sighs
[17:30:10] <Colourless> Re: Spark's Ass
[17:30:10] <Colourless> Author: toad`sMoke (---.ResNet.ukings.ns.Ca)
[17:30:10] <Colourless> Date: 12-03-01 17:23
[17:30:10] <Colourless> don't mind me, just jump starting an old topic:
[17:30:11] <Colourless> Does anyone know the last version that Spark had a shinny ass.
[17:30:13] <Colourless> I'm making a webpage dedicated to it.
[17:30:15] <Colourless>
[17:30:15] <Indiana_Threepwood> and?
[17:30:51] * wjp slaps matto with a petrified large trout for that last post in that thread
[17:31:31] <Darke> wjp: My reaction also. <grin> Got that 'freeze thread' code working yet?
[17:31:42] <Indiana_Threepwood> hey COlour
[17:31:44] <wjp> no...
[17:31:57] <Indiana_Threepwood> that thing you sent is farked
[17:32:07] <Colourless> it is? what's the problem
[17:32:41] <Indiana_Threepwood> now there's no ddhelp crap, or sdl error crap
[17:32:50] <Indiana_Threepwood> it says there's restrictions on the system.
[17:33:12] <Indiana_Threepwood> and to "contact the system administrator". I AM THE SYSTEM ADMINISTRATOR!
[17:33:24] <Colourless> what exactly is it saying
[17:33:43] <wjp> ?seen sbx
[17:33:43] <exultbot> sbx is right here!
[17:34:31] --> exultbot has joined #exult
[17:34:31] --- Topic for #exult is: exult: For those who are bored with Ultima 7's bugs, <fluff> and want some new ones.
[17:34:31] --- Topic for #exult set by Darke at Sat Dec 1 15:01:00 2001
[17:34:34] <wjp> ?seen sbx
[17:34:47] <Indiana_Threepwood> THEN it says "This operation has been cancelled due to restrictions in effect on this computer. Please contact the system administrator"
[17:35:08] <Colourless> what do you mean "exult error" there must be more info then that
[17:35:34] <Indiana_Threepwood> it's just one of those illegal operation things
[17:35:42] <wjp> ?seen Colourless
[17:35:42] <exultbot> colourless is right here!
[17:35:47] <wjp> ?seen Fingolfin
[17:35:47] <exultbot> fingolfin left IRC around Mon Dec 3 23:05:15 2001 (GMT) ("good night")
[17:35:58] <wjp> ok, that seems to have fixed it, more or less
[17:37:22] <Indiana_Threepwood> "This program has caused an illegal operation and will be shut down. Quit all programs, and then restart your computer. If symptoms persist, please see your doctor."
[17:37:30] <Indiana_Threepwood> Well ok it didn't say that doctor thing.
[17:37:57] --> exultbot has joined #exult
[17:37:57] --- Topic for #exult is: exult: For those who are bored with Ultima 7's bugs, <fluff> and want some new ones.
[17:37:57] --- Topic for #exult set by Darke at Sat Dec 1 15:01:00 2001
[17:38:32] <Darke> if(!(in(var0002, var0004) && (!in(var0002, var0004)))) goto labelFunc_0189; -- I'm not sure I should be in awe of, or horrified that ucxt can produce that line of code.
[17:39:52] <Indiana_Threepwood> hmm
[17:40:05] * Darke is also almost certain that, that is an incorrect line of code as well.
[17:40:32] <wjp> it seems kind of always true
[17:41:22] <Darke> Yep. And I'm getting a pile of "DID NOT FIND ALL OPCODE PARAMETERS." warnings, so it looks like I need to implement a few more functions. <grin>
[17:41:42] <-- Colourless has left IRC (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
[17:42:30] <Indiana_Threepwood> argH!
[17:42:35] <Indiana_Threepwood> Colourless left!
[17:42:40] <Indiana_Threepwood> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[17:43:33] * Darke thinks Indiana is overreacting. <grin>
[17:43:47] <Indiana_Threepwood> lol
[17:43:57] <Indiana_Threepwood> maybe a lil bit
[17:44:03] <Indiana_Threepwood> but he was going to help me get Exult running again!
[17:44:10] <Indiana_Threepwood> :|
[17:44:26] <Darke> He had a ping timeout, he should be back in a minute or two.
[17:44:49] <Indiana_Threepwood> yub
[17:46:42] <Indiana_Threepwood> Well i gotta go pretty soon
[17:47:23] <Indiana_Threepwood> tell colourless to email me
[17:47:40] <Indiana_Threepwood> comissar_yari@hotmail.com
[17:47:54] <Indiana_Threepwood> you *need* to tell him my email address
[17:48:00] <Indiana_Threepwood> and tell him to email me
[17:48:00] * Darke nods. He'll read the logs.
[17:48:08] <Indiana_Threepwood> kthx
[17:48:10] <-- Indiana_Threepwood has left IRC ()
[17:55:13] <Darke> Lets see if exultbot chokes again. <grin> I'll cut&paste the latest ucxt output for function 0x96, if anyone's interested.
[17:55:24] <wjp> go for it :-)
[17:55:38] <Darke> Func0096 0x96 ()
[17:55:39] <Darke> {
[17:55:39] <Darke> if(!(pushi(0001) == UcEvent)) goto labelFunc_0038;
[17:55:39] <Darke> if(!callis(0088, pushitm(), pushi(000A))) goto labelFunc_001C;
[17:55:39] <Darke> Func08FF("@The sails must b...")
[17:55:39] <Darke> goto labelFunc_0038;
[17:55:41] <Darke> label0096_001C:
[17:55:43] <Darke> Func0829(pushitm())
[17:55:45] <Darke> if(!(!pushitm())) goto labelFunc_002D;
[17:55:47] <Darke> Func08FF("@I think the gang...")
[17:55:49] <Darke> goto labelFunc_0038;
[17:55:51] <Darke> label0096_002D:
[17:55:53] <Darke> if(!callis(0081, )) goto labelFunc_0038;
[17:55:55] <Darke> calli(007E, callis(0081, ))
[17:55:57] <Darke> label0096_0038:
[17:55:59] <Darke> return;
[17:56:01] <Darke> }
[17:56:29] <wjp> I think you should replace jumps to that last label with "return; " automatically
[17:56:50] <Darke> I think it's getting to the point that the assembler is more readable then the usecode-script. <grin>
[17:57:05] <wjp> callis(0081, ) ?
[17:57:26] <Darke> (jumps) Not at the moment. I'm still working on getting the basic parsing correct. Specific optmisiations are in pass3.
[17:57:59] <wjp> I hope you're planning to use the intrinsic names too? (instead of the numbers) :-)
[17:58:05] <Darke> I need to add code to translate from the intrinsic numbers into the 'real names' of their functions. I've got them, I just need to add the code.
[17:58:09] <wjp> yeah :-)
[17:58:33] <wjp> that's the one thing keeping it from being really easily readable, I think
[17:59:32] <Darke> usecode/ucxt/data/*.data contains some tables with other 'names' to attach to numbers, I need to start referencing them at some point in time as well. <grin> As you might imagine, my output function is getting quite... complicated.
[18:00:25] <Darke> For example, those 'if's there are translated out of a string in opcodes.txt that looks exactly like this: "if(!%p1) goto labelFunc_%1;"
[18:00:43] --> Colourless has joined #Exult
[18:00:44] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Colourless
[18:01:03] <Colourless> damn he's gone
[18:01:18] <Darke> Colourless: As you might have noticed Threepwood wants you to contact him, his email address is in the logs.
[18:01:45] <wjp> I hope it's in the logs, anyway... Darke has been pasting usecode again ;-)
[18:02:01] <wjp> yeah, it's in there
[18:02:05] <Darke> wjp: It is. <grin> It's in my logs as well.
[18:03:30] <Colourless> i doubt I can help
[18:03:47] <Darke> Colourless: Have you looked at the latest changes Ryan committed? They might help.
[18:04:17] <Colourless> what are you talking about?
[18:04:31] <Colourless> i am Ryan. I am Colourless.
[18:04:41] <Darke> Ahh. Sorry. <grin>
[18:05:07] * Darke is about to collapse into bed. <grin> He blames the confusion on that.
[18:05:40] <Colourless> doing a whois on me would have shown that
[18:05:42] <Darke> Night all. <bow>
[18:05:47] <Colourless> cya
[18:06:05] <Darke> Colourless: <grin> I knew that, it just didn't 'click' in time.
[18:06:22] --> Cless has joined #Exult
[18:06:34] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("use other machine")
[18:06:34] --- Cless is now known as Colourless
[18:06:36] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Colourless
[18:06:43] <-- Darke has left #exult ()
[18:11:37] <Colourless> you know, i swear that exult runs faster for me in WinXP than Win98
[18:31:28] <-- matto has left IRC (herbert.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[18:31:28] <-- dto has left IRC (herbert.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[18:32:54] --> dto has joined #exult
[18:32:54] --> matto has joined #exult
[19:00:58] --> Dominus has joined #exult
[19:00:58] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Dominus
[19:01:18] <Dominus> hi
[19:01:25] <Dominus> dto: are you still here?
[19:01:35] <Colourless> hi
[19:02:08] * Dominus thinks that leaving his ISP account information on his mothers computer was a baaaaaaaaad mistake
[19:02:49] * Dominus got about 35 messages today that he sent a virus to various email accounts, including Exult Mailing list
[19:03:37] * Dominus is very pissed at his mom for allowing a 13year old neighbour to work on her computer
[19:03:46] <Dominus> grrr
[19:05:01] <Dominus> fortunately the mailing list filtered that mesage out due to the virus included in the mail
[19:11:05] <-- dto has left IRC (herbert.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[19:11:05] <-- matto has left IRC (herbert.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[19:25:08] <wjp> Dominus: bad mistake indeed :-)
[19:25:27] <wjp> BadTrans? That one seems to be quite popular over here
[19:26:05] <Dominus> hey, I first checked my computer throughly for viruses and didn't find it until I came up with the idea that it was my mother not me
[19:26:14] <Dominus> Yes, I think BadTrans
[19:27:09] <Dominus> I was gone from yesterday afternoon till this evening but had my puter running and it is on cable (though firewalled)so it was connected all the time
[19:27:47] <wjp> not again... why do people have so much trouble attaching savegames?!
[19:27:56] --> Fingolfin has joined #exult
[19:27:56] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Fingolfin
[19:28:10] <Dominus> and first thing I checked my emails and was quite amazed how good virus checking is nowadays (got maybe about 30 mail-admin replys)
[19:28:15] <Fingolfin> hiya
[19:28:25] <Dominus> wjp: it's too complicated, I guess :-)
[19:28:25] <Colourless> hi
[19:28:31] <Dominus> Fingolfin: hi
[19:29:12] <Fingolfin> ohh, I didn't get a virus from you, <sob>
[19:29:13] <wjp> hi
[19:30:05] <Dominus> after all it was my mom that got infected and it didn't send viri (?) to all the people in MY address book :-)
[19:30:31] <Dominus> (not that this virus would have had any chance on a nonWin32 environment)
[19:30:59] <Fingolfin> exactly :)
[19:31:14] <Fingolfin> I always find it intersting when I get one of these .exe files (which is quite rare, though)
[19:31:21] <wjp> Fingolfin: yeah, me too :-)
[19:32:06] * Dominus nods though he apparently send a some from Germany today even though he never left Austria today
[19:32:25] <wjp> all through the magic of remote logins :-)
[19:34:37] * wjp should go do some homework
[19:34:43] --- wjp is now known as wjp|afk
[19:36:48] <wjp|afk> Dominus: oh no... now you've done it...
[19:37:07] * wjp|afk just noticed the last post in 'that' thread
[19:37:27] <Dominus> hehe
[19:37:40] <Colourless> you noticed that most of the latest posts are from .ca domains?
[19:37:57] <wjp|afk> yeah
[19:38:11] <Dominus> what does that mean for Canadians :-)
[19:38:15] <Colourless> canadians are weird people
[19:39:08] <wjp|afk> if anyone replies to that last post I'll personally kick him from the channel :-)
[19:39:18] <wjp|afk> *really gone now*
[19:40:55] <Dominus> imagine: toad hunting that channel with his ass fixation
[19:40:56] * Colourless is doing something completely useless... getting mirrors to function correctly
[19:41:37] <Dominus> hey that's not useless (unless you are colourless)
[19:41:39] <Dominus> :-)
[19:41:40] <Fingolfin> what thread are we talking 'bout?
[19:41:44] * Fingolfin wants to be kicked =)
[19:41:49] <Colourless> take a guess
[19:41:50] <Dominus> sparks ass
[19:41:52] <Fingolfin> the spark`
[19:41:54] <Fingolfin> ah :)
[19:41:59] <Fingolfin> wasn't fast enough =)
[19:42:53] --> dto has joined #exult
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[19:51:45] * Dominus flips the first page of Pillars of Creation
[19:55:50] <Dominus> brb
[19:55:54] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("got to play Exult now")
[19:56:46] * Colourless decides that working on mirrors counts as polishing, which is a valid part of Beta
[20:05:06] --- Fingolfin is now known as Fingolfin|dinner
[20:06:51] --> freedman has joined #Exult
[20:06:51] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to freedman
[20:06:55] <freedman> Hello
[20:07:39] <Colourless> hi
[20:07:52] <freedman> Polishing mirrors?
[20:08:02] <Colourless> yeah :-)
[20:08:06] <freedman> Sounds kind of tedious:-)
[20:08:32] <Colourless> well, if it was in real life, yes :-)
[20:08:39] --- wjp|afk is now known as wjp
[20:08:41] <wjp> hi Jeff
[20:08:48] <freedman> Hi
[20:08:53] <wjp> haven't seen you in here for a while
[20:09:24] <freedman> IRC is a bit painful. I have to telnet to my ISP, and it's really slooooowwwww
[20:09:43] <Colourless> of course polishing exult's mirrors to show reflections isn't that difficult really. i'm just inheriting egg_object with a few changes here and there.
[20:09:44] <wjp> what exactly is the reason for that having to telnet, btw?
[20:10:11] <freedman> Colourless: Seems like the smart way to do it.
[20:10:32] <freedman> wjp: We're behind a firewall here at work. Telnet works, but not IRC.
[20:10:45] <wjp> hmm... how rude :-)
[20:10:57] <freedman> Yea, pretty unreasonable:-)
[20:11:12] <Colourless> :-)
[20:11:24] <freedman> BTW: That FOV bug I closed hit me right after I closed it. But then I couldn't reproduce it:-(
[20:11:25] * wjp wonders if he can bounce an IRC connection through his linux machine
[20:11:40] <wjp> freedman: the fade-out one?
[20:11:53] <freedman> Yep.
[20:11:59] <wjp> yeah, I only got it once too
[20:12:09] <freedman> It happened right after starting a new game. But only once.
[20:12:12] <wjp> the guy who reported it in here had had it several times, though
[20:12:29] <wjp> it wasn't after a new game for me, btw
[20:12:48] <freedman> But 1 failure out of 30 isn't that bad. If only Windows was that reliable:-)
[20:14:05] <freedman> That barge bug is fixed now. It was fun, though, to get it to occur in the original U7.
[20:14:30] <wjp> heh, it never happened to me in the original, but I never tried to get it either (like with Exult ;-) )
[20:14:36] <Colourless> what bug?
[20:15:18] <freedman> You have to get the carpet slightly NW of the cart, but still over it, then click on one of the SE seats.
[20:15:51] <Colourless> i take it the wrong barge is found?
[20:16:01] <freedman> Exult chews up the pieces. U7 gives you control of both, so the cart gets dragged along when you move the carpet.
[20:16:38] <freedman> Colourless: Yes. I >think< it's fixed now in Exult, by taking the highest barge under the seat.
[20:17:45] <Colourless> heh, that's pretty funny.
[20:18:47] <wjp> so... what if you teleport from the carpet while the carpet is still in midair above the cart and then try to drive the cart? ;-)
[20:19:10] <freedman> ?? Teleporting off a barge isn't pretty:-)
[20:19:24] <freedman> ... you're still in barge mode.
[20:21:17] <wjp> pity :-)
[20:21:55] * wjp is still toying with iptables
[20:22:25] --> Dominus has joined #exult
[20:22:25] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Dominus
[20:22:35] <Dominus> hi
[20:22:38] <Dominus> freedman!!!
[20:22:51] <freedman> Hi. BRB
[20:23:03] <Colourless> wb
[20:23:16] <Dominus> wjp: I didn't cget crash with Fitch in XP as well
[20:30:41] <wjp> his savegame was saved in beta1, though, so maybe we already fixed it
[20:31:29] <Dominus> yeah, we had a bug there with Exult crashing
[20:31:57] <freedman> Wasn't that before the Beta, though?
[20:32:24] <wjp> another bug there? hmm, can't remember
[20:32:46] <wjp> freedman: oh, btw, I changed another something about conversation handling in usecode
[20:32:50] <Dominus> newgame says unknown so it can be well before beta1 right?
[20:32:58] <wjp> freedman: user_choice should now never be cleared at all
[20:32:59] <freedman> Nooooooo!!!! What was it?:-)
[20:33:29] <Dominus> freedman: why do I sleep beneath a blanket on the floor? Why don't I get a proper bed? :-)
[20:33:32] <freedman> Does that fix some of those 'blank-line' bugs?
[20:33:35] <wjp> freedman: fixed the conversation with the cyclops on dagger isle
[20:33:47] <wjp> freedman: I don't think the blank lines are bugs. They seem very intentional
[20:34:07] <wjp> but someone should check the original on that sometime
[20:34:34] <freedman> Yes. I'll look into that.
[20:34:52] <freedman> The real bug might be that the previous text is getting blanked out. I still need to fix that.
[20:34:55] <wjp> (they could be pauses for 'dramatic effect', or whatever it's called)
[20:35:09] <freedman> The cylops bug is the crash?
[20:35:31] <wjp> cyclops was the crash yes, but I fixed that by never clearing user_choice
[20:35:42] <Dominus> wjp: can you clear it up to me if newgame.ver is set to unknown if the savegame was started anytime before saving of ver was introduced?
[20:35:45] <freedman> I can't even remember why I cleared it.
[20:36:21] <wjp> Dominus: when you save it checks if newgame.ver exists. If not, it will create a newgame.ver saying 'unknown'
[20:36:45] <Dominus> okay, so this save may be from before that bug ages ago
[20:37:13] <wjp> freedman: oh, I almost forgot. I also made get_user_response() not check for user_choice being cleared anymore
[20:37:27] <wjp> (not that that does anything now that we never clear it)
[20:37:55] <freedman> Okay. I did that stuff when I was fumbling around.
[20:38:19] <freedman> The trouble is verifying that Usecode changes don't break any conversations...
[20:38:54] <wjp> I'm pretty sure it won't
[20:39:03] <wjp> I check with some of the most troublesome conversations
[20:39:08] <freedman> :-) I've a feeling you're right.
[20:39:09] <wjp> (Tseramed, etc..)
[20:39:21] <freedman> He's sure annoying.
[20:39:49] <wjp> oh, about that empty lines conversation:
[20:40:03] <freedman> Yes?
[20:40:09] <wjp> the empty lines are caused by '*' string constants
[20:40:46] <wjp> (ie. there's an explicit 'addsi '*'; say' in the usecode)
[20:41:11] <freedman> Hmm... Maybe I'll look into that, and compare to the original.
[20:42:04] <wjp> in both cases it's right after someone said something... silly/untactful, and right before someone else replies to the comment
[20:42:26] <freedman> So there probably should be a blank line...
[20:44:30] <Colourless> what distance away should the mirrors have reflections from?
[20:44:45] <wjp> about 3 or 4 tiles?
[20:44:51] <Dominus> two screens away :-)
[20:45:05] <wjp> Dominus: that would be too easy to implement :-)
[20:45:10] <freedman> 1 or 2?
[20:45:21] <Colourless> at the moment i've got it as 2
[20:45:38] <Dominus> I think 2 would be fine
[20:50:04] <freedman> Wow! Starting to think our Usecode conversation-printing is all wrong.
[20:52:02] <wjp> freedman: what's the IP on your work machine?
[20:52:35] * wjp has figured out a nice little trick with DNAT+SNAT :-)
[20:52:57] <freedman> 157.95.10.138
[20:53:43] <wjp> ok... try connecting with an IRC client to wjp.2y.net port 6000
[20:53:52] <wjp> (port nr. is changeable, if that one's firewalled too)
[20:54:46] <freedman> Trying...
[20:55:22] * wjp doesn't see any traffic here
[20:55:33] --- Fingolfin|dinner is now known as Fingolfin
[20:55:37] <freedman> Doesn't seem to be getting through.
[20:55:44] <Fingolfin> hi jeff
[20:55:51] <freedman> Hi. WB
[20:56:08] <wjp> ok, port 80 then
[20:56:27] <wjp> I guess they wouldn't have that one firewalled? :-)
[20:56:31] <Dominus> Colourless: another one of those x3dfx ideas: http://pub43.ezboard.com/fx3dfxfrm1.showMessageRange?topicID=4997.topic&start=1&stop=20
[20:57:01] <Dominus> and this one: http://pub43.ezboard.com/fx3dfxfrm1.showMessage?topicID=5041.topic
[20:57:47] <freedman> Port 80 doesn't seem to work either.
[20:58:02] <wjp> hmm :-(
[20:58:56] <freedman> How about 8080?
[20:59:14] <wjp> I've got it on 23 (telnet) now, btw
[20:59:32] <freedman> I'll try that.
[20:59:45] <wjp> hey :-)
[20:59:50] <freedman> Woohoo!
[20:59:52] <wjp> that did something :-)
[21:00:15] <freedman> I'll switch over. SIRC's a lot nicer than this command-line version.
[21:00:19] <-- freedman has left IRC ("Leaving")
[21:00:30] --> jsf has joined #exult
[21:00:38] <wjp> nice IP :-)
[21:00:43] <wjp> jsf (~jsf@ip503c5297.speed.planet.nl) has joined #exult
[21:00:46] <jsf> Nice, yes!
[21:00:55] * Dominus waves to jsf
[21:00:59] <wjp> how's the latency?
[21:01:08] <jsf> Much faster than before.
[21:01:09] <Dominus> didn't know that jsf is from the Netherlands :-)
[21:01:16] <jsf> :-)
[21:01:29] <Colourless> dominus: those people really have no idea what they are doing
[21:01:41] <Dominus> hehe
[21:01:59] <Dominus> but it's fun to "watch"
[21:01:59] <wjp> I've said it before, but... what is it with all those images?!
[21:02:32] --- wjp is now known as wjp|away
[21:02:32] <Dominus> it's a "mine is bigger than yours" thing, I guess
[21:02:39] <wjp|away> gotta go... family things :-)
[21:02:46] <Fingolfin> hehe
[21:03:18] <Dominus> jsf: did you notice that on the new BG patch i'm sleeping on the floor?
[21:03:28] <Dominus> btw, nice new patch
[21:04:00] <jsf> Oops...
[21:04:22] <Colourless> heh. it is very ammusing. i wonder how long it will take them to work out how to get gendate.h
[21:04:27] <jsf> The bugs aren't entirely out, I guess.
[21:04:49] * Dominus monitors our files and downloaded the patch right away
[21:05:23] <Dominus> Colourless: as I said :-) I'm still reading through it
[21:05:46] <Colourless> i have actually mananged to get all files to compile properly and i didn't even modify any of them.
[21:06:04] <Colourless> of course, the dll doesn't link, but that's a different matter all together
[21:06:06] <Dominus> he
[21:06:17] <Dominus> tell them - it will drive them nuts
[21:07:43] <Dominus> Colourless: "Why are you trying to compile Glide drivers for? What are you trying to do with it exactly?"...
[21:07:52] <Colourless> actually, i had to comment out some code in 2 of the files
[21:08:40] <Colourless> oddly enough it was code for windows9x :-)
[21:10:20] <Dominus> oddly enough D3d in XP runs way better for me than in 2k (I tried my old backup of 2k that weekend and it was really bad on a latest beta of a N64 emulator)
[21:10:46] <Colourless> the trick to figuring out how to get the files to compile is to just look at macglide3.h file which contains all the required #defines
[21:11:22] <Colourless> also some helper apps need to be compiled to generate some 'missing' headers.
[21:13:57] <dto> is usecode a kind of byte-code language? or is it a "real" language and parsed at runtime?
[21:14:14] <Colourless> usecode is bytecode
[21:14:15] <dto> i once read an article about the tech behind U8 including a scripting language, but I wonder about u7
[21:14:17] <jsf> Bytecode, like Java.
[21:14:37] <jsf> Of course, it's compiled from a real language, but we don't know what it looks like.
[21:14:41] <dto> cool. but then, that means you don't have the original source
[21:14:42] <dto> ouch
[21:15:02] <dto> the U8 article showed a text example of something called "Unk" that was vaguely C-ish
[21:15:30] <jsf> Yes, I've heard of that. I'd imagine U7's is similar.
[21:16:41] <dto> So what kind of opcodes/operations are possible in Usecode? It governs the actions of objects and monsters and people right? i.e. it makes the world go round, the basis of the simulation of britannia ?
[21:17:42] <jsf> Yes. It has the usual stuff, tests, branches, arithmetic, plus game
[21:18:13] <jsf> specific things like 'say', 'conversation'. Plus it can create and then schedule scripts to be executed in the future.
[21:19:12] <dto> nice
[21:27:39] <jsf> Well, I better be getting back to work now. See ya!
[21:27:41] <-- jsf has left IRC ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.1")
[21:27:50] <Dominus> bye
[21:27:52] <Dominus> hehe
[21:35:09] <Colourless> got to go
[21:35:24] <Dominus> see you
[21:35:32] <Colourless> cya
[21:35:35] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("need sleep")
[21:43:34] <Dominus> I've sent my mom a fix for the BadTrans virus...
[22:06:52] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC ("night all")
[22:28:46] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("got to play Exult now")
[22:49:41] --- wjp|away is now known as wjp
[22:59:18] <matto> wjp!!
[23:10:05] <-- matto was kicked from #exult by wjp (wjp)
[23:10:06] --> matto has joined #exult
[23:10:09] <wjp> there :-)
[23:10:17] <wjp> you deserved that for that post in 'that' thread
[23:10:19] <wjp> :-)
[23:14:00] <wjp> I have to go
[23:14:00] <wjp> bye
[23:14:05] <wjp> (oh, and sorry :-) )
[23:14:07] <-- wjp has left IRC ("[x]chat")