#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 4 Feb 2004 (GMT)

Archive Today Yesterday Tomorrow
Exult homepage


[00:04:57] <-- SB-X has left IRC ()
[01:23:15] --> Kirben has joined #exult
[01:23:15] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Kirben
[03:16:02] --> SB-X has joined #exult
[03:50:51] <-- servus has left IRC ("Client exiting")
[03:51:04] --> servus has joined #exult
[05:08:06] <-- SB-X has left IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
[05:08:06] --> sbx has joined #exult
[05:26:58] <-- sbx has left IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[05:27:00] --> EsBee-Eks has joined #exult
[07:29:35] <-- servus has left IRC ("Client exiting")
[08:41:53] --- EsBee-Eks is now known as SB-X
[09:59:02] <-- SB-X has left IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[09:59:03] --> sbx has joined #exult
[10:13:28] <-- sbx has left IRC ()
[10:30:47] --> Fingolfin has joined #exult
[10:30:47] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Fingolfin
[12:56:36] <wjp> hi Max
[13:36:16] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC ("42")
[13:38:19] --> Colourless has joined #Exult
[13:38:19] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Colourless
[13:38:43] <Colourless> hi
[13:48:17] <Colourless> On a system with 1 GB of memory, windows decides the swap file should be at least 1.5 GB ranging upto 3 GB :-)
[13:49:17] <Colourless> i'm thinking, on a system with 2 GB of memory, what is it going to do? If it wants to use a swap file more than 2 GB, it's going to run out of address space
[14:06:24] <Ember> Hrm... maybe I should buy two gig sticks of ram for my new machine, rather then 512meg sticks, just out of curiosity's sake?
[14:07:00] <Colourless> :-)
[14:09:34] --- Ember is now known as Darke
[14:09:42] * Darke innocentbounces.
[14:09:44] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Darke
[14:10:02] <Colourless> bah
[14:10:08] * Colourless prefers ember
[14:10:12] * Darke is harrassing flatmate to go out and purchace a new Neato(tm) computer system for him tommorrow. *grin*
[14:10:24] * Darke pokes his tongue at Colourless.
[14:11:00] * Colourless no longer has the absolute best computer in the household
[14:13:02] * Colourless 's step father upgraded to an Athlon XP 2500+ with 1 GB of DDR400. Motherboard is Dual Channel so it really is quite quick doing memory intensive tasks. He uses the machine for digital photography, so lots of fast memory is desirable
[14:13:27] <Darke> Yeah, it would be.
[14:14:02] * Darke is upgrading to a Shuttle Athlon64 system, with a gig of dual channel ram. Already got a nice video card, so things should work well.
[14:14:16] <Colourless> Small :-)
[14:14:22] <Darke> Very. *grin*
[14:14:27] <Darke> It looks pretty too!
[14:15:02] <Darke> Supports sata, so I'm going to grab a 160Gig sata drive as my primary, since it's the current nice price.
[14:15:24] <Colourless> I was playing around with a 100 MB image in Photoshop. I did a basic levels adjustment and it modified the entire image in about 3 seconds
[14:15:41] <Darke> Ooooh!
[14:15:58] * Darke is only buying his to play games. No real other use, really.
[14:16:06] <Colourless> :-)
[14:18:02] <Colourless> ram really is kind of dirt cheap at the moment
[14:19:02] <Darke> Very. No name stuff you can get half a gig for under a hundred. Name brand for not much more. I'm getting some nice ddr3200 512 sticks for about $150 each.
[14:19:37] <Colourless> yes, sounds about right
[14:20:11] <Darke> Gig sticks, better quality, same brand are around $320 each.
[14:20:43] <Darke> Two gig of ram, in a windows machine, to play games seems a little excessive to me though. *grin*
[14:21:10] <Colourless> ya think :-)
[14:21:29] <Colourless> hell, at this stage 1 GB is excessive
[14:22:19] <Darke> I'm tempted to get a couple of gig sticks to drop into my former windows->future primary (linux) machine, simply because I do actually use ram-coming-out-of-my-ears on it.
[14:22:45] <Colourless> i can't think of any current game that would actually use 1 GB of memory if you had it.
[14:23:18] <Colourless> In general the space used by a game is either Movies or speech. Both are play once, never again sort of things
[14:24:01] <Colourless> so often they can be streamed from disk
[14:24:27] <Colourless> that said, general sound effects and what 'should' gain the most from lots of memory.
[14:24:44] <Darke> Yup.
[14:24:49] <Colourless> i say should as few games seem to actually implement effective caching systems for sound effects
[14:25:32] <Colourless> Now I know of one engine that will.... *cough*Doom 3*cough*
[14:26:01] <Colourless> but hey, that game isn't out yet
[14:26:16] * Darke snerks. Whenever *that* comes out. I'm almost expecting DNF to be out before that. *grin*
[14:27:31] <Colourless> That is actually expected reasonably soon. Half-life 2's expected release date seems to have been pushed back to around the time of DNF now
[14:28:27] <Darke> Heh. Apparently it's release date is now around summer .us time. *grin*
[14:29:05] <Colourless> you know those damn hackers... can indefinately delay a game only 1 week from completion! :-)
[14:29:20] <Darke> Far out. Creative's speaker site is worthless. It almost looks designed so that you *have* to purchase a speaker set before you can find out what *inputs* it takes!
[14:29:27] * Darke cackles!
[14:30:16] <Colourless> it works like this, creative expects that you will have an Audigy, and as such, you wont need to worry about what inputs the speaker system takes :-)
[14:30:33] <Darke> Yeah. That's what I'm trying to avoid purchasing. *grin*
[14:31:51] * Colourless still uses an old SB Live! that manages to regularly annoy him
[14:32:10] <Darke> I got a Live 5.1 and accompanied set of creative speakers years ago, and I've certainly got my money's worth out of them. So I want to aquire a new set of their high end ones, which are currently 7.1, but the new system's audio card should already nicely support that, so I can avoid the cost of a card.
[14:32:57] <Colourless> the problem with me upgrading to a different sound card is the Sound Blaster cards are among the few consumer cards that actually have a midi implementation
[14:34:38] <Colourless> and i wouldn't be particularly happy moving to a card that relied on the MS Software synth for midi playback
[14:35:17] <Darke> Yup.
[14:38:42] <Colourless> I had 'fun' when i first got my SB Live. Hosed my system because of an incompatibilty with my graphics card at the time
[14:39:26] <Colourless> i've had the Live for a very long time now
[14:39:45] <Darke> Yeah. Strangely enough I had a similar problem, but this was more mobo realted. Live used a huge chunk more interrupts, which had a large overlap with pretty much everything else, which turned my otherwise vaguely stable mobo into something that rebooted on a regular, almost hourly basis. Upgrade of mobo solved it.
[14:40:36] <Colourless> I think everyone has had 'that' problem :-)
[14:41:03] <Colourless> The SB Live pretty much can not share anything with any other device
[14:41:34] <Colourless> if the other device happens to be a little bit flakey (say a VIA motherboard IDE controller) then you're in for problems
[14:41:54] <Colourless> (if using said VIA motherboard IDE controller, be prepared for data loss)
[14:43:27] <Colourless> the PCI implementation on the Lives is shocking. The WinNT drivers for the Lives is equally as bad.
[14:44:30] <Colourless> it took creative literally years before they managed drivers that would partially work in SMP setups. Then took them still more time to make drivers that wouldn't Blue screen quite so much
[14:44:53] <Darke> Heh.
[14:45:46] <Colourless> the guess that people have is the SB Live drivers were actually the VXD Win9x drivers kind of hacked into the WinNT driver format
[14:46:04] <Darke> The linux Live drivers I've not had a single problem with. Kind of sad that, in a way. *grin*
[14:46:30] <Colourless> well last thing I know, creative didn't actually make those
[14:49:53] <Darke> I'm sure that's what contributed to their high quality and overall stability. *grin*
[14:52:31] <Colourless> oh well. My system is currently stable which is nice.
[14:52:56] <Colourless> so any driver issues are currently under control
[15:08:43] <-- Kirben has left IRC ("System Meltdown")
[15:31:36] * Darke sleeps, dreaming of oooh-shiny techie computery bits he hopes to get tommorrow. Night!
[15:34:10] <Colourless> night
[16:21:34] <-- Florent has left IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[16:28:00] --> Rixa has joined #exult
[16:28:22] <-- Rixa has left IRC (Remote closed the connection)
[16:52:10] <wjp> I wonder why artaxerxes addressed that wud mail to me in particular
[16:53:56] <Colourless> emaIl?
[16:54:05] <wjp> yes
[16:54:16] <Colourless> i don't have any email
[16:54:37] <wjp> it was sent an hour ago or so
[16:55:01] <Colourless> was it sent to exult-general?
[16:55:11] <wjp> yes
[16:55:17] * wjp checks the suffix, just in case :-)
[16:55:37] <wjp> yes, I actually got it through the ML
[16:55:40] <Colourless> :-)
[16:58:08] <Colourless> what's it about?
[16:59:01] <wjp> hm, \r\n's in usecode
[17:00:21] <Colourless> and the specific problem is? the exist or they don't exist?
[17:00:56] <Colourless> i'm guessing the problem is they exist
[17:01:13] <wjp> I'm not sure of the problem, actually
[17:01:28] <wjp> artaxerxes might not have realized they exist
[17:01:51] <Colourless> though last thing i knew, they didn't use \r\n at all
[17:02:02] <Colourless> (in usecode)
[17:02:11] <wjp> there do seem to be a few occurences
[17:02:21] <wjp> 5 of them :-)
[17:02:26] <Colourless> text.flx has them IIRC
[17:02:29] <wjp> (in 2 strings)
[17:02:48] <wjp> I already received my reply through the list now
[17:03:45] <Colourless> bah, my email is obviously getting back logged somewhere
[17:04:12] <wjp> hm, wud is using strcpy on overlapping string
[17:04:15] <wjp> s
[17:04:23] <wjp> that's bad :-)
[17:04:45] <Colourless> define overlapping strings
[17:05:04] <wjp> tempstr2 = strchr(tempstr,'\r')+2;
[17:05:16] <wjp> strcpy(tempstr, tempstr2);
[17:05:49] <Colourless> eh
[17:05:53] <wjp> it might work depending on the implementation
[17:06:01] <Colourless> i don't think so
[17:06:19] <Colourless> strchr is supposed to return a pointer to the first instance of the character in the string, or null
[17:06:38] <wjp> there are null checks around
[17:06:43] <wjp> I just didn't copy them
[17:07:41] <Colourless> it is 'bad' code since it implies that there is a valid char after the '\r'
[17:07:49] <Colourless> s/implies/assumes/
[17:08:14] <wjp> it assumes there's a \n following the \r, yes
[17:08:16] <Colourless> unless it is checking for strchr(tempstr,'\r')+1 being NULL
[17:08:36] <Colourless> s/NULL/0/
[17:08:45] <Colourless> heh, i got your email :-)
[17:10:35] <Colourless> if there is one thing i really don't like, it's writing text file parsers
[17:14:18] <Colourless> of course it sounds like the error is in the binary file parser :-)
[17:15:18] <Colourless> uh, of course it's the binary parser since it's wud
[17:16:55] <wjp> :-)
[17:21:48] --> Cahaan has joined #exult
[17:56:26] --> whuzza has joined #exult
[17:56:43] <-- whuzza has left #exult ()
[19:20:53] --> Dominus has joined #exult
[19:20:57] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Dominus
[19:21:07] <wjp> hi
[19:21:23] <Dominus> hi
[19:21:28] <Colourless> hi
[19:22:13] <Dominus> today I was able to load the forum twice in a hundred tries or so :-)
[19:25:41] <Dominus> CryTec, a german games company that develops the upcoming Far Cry have been busted by the police today for illegal use of software. The police report mentions that the software usage would have been in the 6-digit Euro area (damn my english is bad today)
[19:26:36] <Colourless> there is more to the story than that
[19:26:56] <Dominus> a former employee was it that gave a tip to the police
[19:29:38] <Dominus> but crytec is going on with the development and is still planning to release in march
[19:30:09] <Dominus> I wonder what software this is about
[19:30:24] <Colourless> something really expensive
[19:30:44] <Colourless> as supposedly it's only 1 program
[19:30:44] <Dominus> yup
[19:31:26] <Dominus> well, depends on how many computers they have it on...
[19:32:24] <Colourless> it's still going to have to be rather expensive. 6 digits implies more than 100,000 and they are not going to have that many employees that you could divide 100,000 to make it a small amount pre lisence
[19:32:39] <Colourless> s/lisence/license/
[19:33:01] <Dominus> true enough
[19:33:39] <wjp> how much would the most expensive windows XP cost per pc?
[19:34:49] <Colourless> most expensive would of course be data center server, which they aren't going to use
[19:34:58] <wjp> well, not if they had to pay :-)
[19:35:10] <Colourless> it is so not meant for desktop usage :-)
[19:35:30] <Colourless> next you get Advanced Server which is about $2000 US per copy (i think)
[19:36:12] <Colourless> can be run on a desktop, but generally not a good idea since it's not actually windows xp but windows 2003
[19:37:27] <Colourless> next of course you get XP Professional which would be in the $500 range
[19:37:44] <Colourless> things of course get cheaper when you buy multiple licenses at the same time
[19:40:57] <Dominus> http://www1.giga.de/stories_u4/0,3204,77265,00.html a picture of police in front of the software company. Also a little article in german.
[19:49:56] <Colourless> time to leave
[19:50:00] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("casts invisibility")
[20:03:41] <Dominus> wjp: Avatar's Pagan Journal http://members.optusnet.com.au/~angelova/pagandiary.htm
[20:07:18] <wjp> :-)
[20:07:49] <Dominus> "Finally left Pagan, leaving behind a trail of death, destruction and social upheaval; ie, business as usual."
[20:16:07] <Dominus> I'm getting sick and tired of the mydoom stuff
[20:18:26] <Dominus> interesting question by Moscow Dragon on rec.games.computer.ultima.series: "U7BG: is Nicodemus a thief?"
[20:18:36] <Dominus> unfortunately not yet in google groups
[20:22:14] <wjp> ah, I see you got that link from usenet too :-)
[20:22:24] <Dominus> he he
[20:22:27] <Dominus> yep
[20:22:46] <Dominus> my daily dosage of ultima usenet
[20:22:49] <wjp> anyway, yes, Nicodemus is a thief
[20:22:53] <wjp> mostly reagents
[20:23:07] <wjp> at least that how I seemed to me when I played BG
[20:23:46] <wjp> it's just a matter of getting in and out fast enough :-)
[20:23:52] <wjp> recall is nice :-)
[20:24:06] <Dominus> not when your stone has been stolen :-)
[20:24:40] <wjp> you shouldn't let him get close enough to steal anything
[20:24:58] <Dominus> kind of strange that moscow dragon is asking that. I thought he would be more at home with u7 usecode to answer his own question :-)
[20:25:00] <wjp> talk to him, buy spell/reagents, teleport out
[20:25:20] <Dominus> I really have to play BG again
[20:27:58] <Dominus> we could make a small bootable linux just for playing BG and end all the Windows problems
[20:28:08] * Dominus still didn't get enough sleep
[20:29:05] <wjp> that would be fairly easy to do
[20:29:17] <wjp> I've been toying around with that scummlinux livecd a bit recently
[20:29:32] <Dominus> oh, there is one for scummVm
[20:29:34] <Dominus> ?
[20:30:24] <Dominus> didn't know, have not looked at scummvm recently (or is scummlinux not related to scummvm and I'm making a fool of me?)
[20:30:43] <wjp> it's a separate project, but it's indeed a scummvm livecd
[20:30:50] <Dominus> phew
[20:31:00] <Dominus> sounds nice
[20:31:54] <Dominus> did you get my ML mail about the mapeditor mode? do you think something like that is possible with Exult (without a huge rewrite)?
[20:34:08] <wjp> hm, I don't really read long exult studio-related mails all that well, usually :-)
[20:34:20] * wjp takes a look
[20:34:29] <Dominus> :-)
[20:34:50] <wjp> hm, yes, I see
[20:34:55] <wjp> sounds like a good idea
[20:35:02] <wjp> not too hard, most likely
[20:35:31] <Dominus> the way it is done now is not really something you want to have in a game you develop
[20:36:01] <Dominus> and with the SF island add-on it is actually a nuissance
[20:40:03] --> GigDR has joined #exult
[20:40:30] <GigDR> ah back
[20:42:29] <-- Dominus has left IRC (Nick collision from services.)
[20:42:37] --- GigDR is now known as Dominus
[20:42:37] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Dominus
[21:09:15] --> MisterP has joined #exult
[21:22:49] <-- MisterP has left IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[21:24:43] --> MisterP has joined #exult
[21:24:53] <-- Cahaan has left IRC ()
[21:36:38] --> Cahaan has joined #exult
[22:20:21] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("a pooka invited me to Charlie's")
[22:29:56] <-- Cahaan has left IRC ()
[22:52:18] <-- MisterP has left IRC (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
[23:28:24] --> MisterP has joined #exult
[23:59:08] --> Florent has joined #exult