#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 4 Nov 2002 (GMT)

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[00:07:21] <Dominus> hi Kirben
[00:09:09] <wjp> hi
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[00:09:22] <wjp> wb
[00:09:42] <Dominus> Fingolfin: wb, nice log off
[00:09:46] <Fingolfin> ok I tracked down and hopefully fixed a nasty problem with system_path
[00:10:04] <wjp> <-- Fingolfin has quit ("Snak 4.8.5 Unregistered copy. Evaluation period is over. Program will now quit. Thanks for using Snak.")
[00:10:19] <Fingolfin> hm, intersting, considering that I did register this program
[00:10:33] <Fingolfin> and my about dialog claims I am registered, too
[00:16:00] <Fingolfin> I added a new method clone_system_path(). This is needed because otherwise game.cc will try to clone system paths by calling get_system_path then add_system_path. However, get_system_path on OS 9 performs a switch slashes
[00:16:14] <Fingolfin> so we end up calling switch_slashes twice and get bad results, something like that
[00:16:34] <Fingolfin> I probably will have to apply that to HEAD as well
[00:17:03] <Dominus> don't all of your changes need to go there as well?
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[00:21:55] <Fingol2> $"%/#
[00:22:11] <Fingol2> stupid OS 9 crashed on me, so if anybody said anything I didn't get it
[00:22:28] <Fingol2> moreover, keyboard input is not working, so I can only resume existing games not start a new one - what the heck?!?
[00:28:13] <Dominus> Fingol2, before your last cvs comit, compiling worked fine for mingw, will have to try with latest changes again
[00:28:33] <Fingol2> ok
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[00:32:57] <Dominus> Fingolfin: compiling worked with the latest as well, now on to test if it actually works
[00:33:59] <Fingolfin> apparently the keyboard problem is a SDL 1.2.5 bug....
[00:34:57] <Dominus> :-(
[00:35:09] <Dominus> works fine here, btw
[00:35:27] <Dominus> (I mean your changes seem to work fine)
[00:42:00] <Fingolfin> cool
[00:42:11] <Fingolfin> would have surprise me if not, but you never know =)
[00:42:37] <Dominus> exactly why I checked
[00:42:59] <wjp> hm, is that 'base_to_uppercase' output new?
[00:45:42] <Fingolfin> ooops indeed, I left the debug output in by acident
[00:45:44] <Fingolfin> accident even
[00:46:15] <Fingolfin> that reminds me about that bad joke where the surgeon forgets the scalpel
[00:46:38] <Fingolfin> luckily this one doesn't have as bad consequences =)
[00:48:28] <Dominus> :)
[00:49:53] * Fingolfin wonders if SDL 1.2.5 was ever properly tested on OS 9. it has some changes in the keyboard code to fix issues on OS X, but where those tested under 9? hm
[00:50:36] <Dominus> probably not
[00:57:04] <Fingolfin> ok it seems my self compiled SDL 1.2.5 does work fine w/o any changes.. no idea why, but I am happy
[00:58:16] <wjp> hm, how did it suddenly become 2am?
[00:58:28] <wjp> i.e., I have to go :-)
[00:58:29] <wjp> g'night
[00:58:36] <Dominus> bye
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[01:08:49] <Fingolfin> ok so everything seems smooth over here
[01:08:59] <Fingolfin> I made one last commit, to fix a small oddity in the main menu
[01:09:40] <Fingolfin> i.e. I wanted to press Cmd-Q to quit and nothing happens... because if nothing was selected in the menu, and keypress would be interpreted as "select first item, do nothing else"... which is not ok if the key combo is Cmd-Q / Alt-X etc.
[01:09:58] <Dominus> odd
[01:10:08] <Fingolfin> well it was odd, but easy to fix =)
[01:10:30] <Fingolfin> so the OS 9 binary is essentially ready, and OS X one, well, I will have to wait for Apple to fix it. or I can try to compile my whole own gcc & libstdc++
[01:10:33] <Fingolfin> but I rather want not
[01:11:08] <Fingolfin> anyway, gotta reboot, bbl
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[05:16:50] <Zxcvb> are exult saved games compatible with exults on other platforms, or other exult versons?
[05:18:28] <Darke> IIRC, yes between platforms and 'maybe' between versions.
[05:19:44] <Darke> Some of the older versions had problems with their savegame formats so we can't load them up currently.
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[06:44:13] <Colourless> hi
[06:44:17] <Darke> Gu!
[06:44:33] <Colourless> gu u tu
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[07:11:37] * Darke looks dubiously at the Colourlesses. Which one's the real one?
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[07:18:20] <Colourless> cya
[07:18:23] <Colourless> :-)
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[10:41:56] <Colourless> gu
[10:41:58] <Darke> 'ello again.
[11:49:37] <Kirben> hmm exult in opengl makes opening menus look terrible but main game seems good.
[11:51:11] <Kirben> for some reason it looks for static\palettes.flx
[11:51:19] <Colourless> yes that is a known problem
[11:51:24] <Colourless> bring it up with jeff
[11:51:42] <Colourless> OpenGL is hardly a properly supported thing though
[12:28:36] <Colourless> cvs server: Updating .
[12:28:36] <Colourless> cvs server: [04:27:25] waiting for fingolfin's lock in /cvsroot/exult/exult
[12:28:39] <Colourless> hmmm
[12:40:47] <Kirben> Should I remove the debug define from exult 1.0 mingw makefiles too ?
[12:41:09] <Colourless> yes
[13:18:08] <artaxerxes|zombi> y
[14:17:54] <artaxerxes|zombi> never mind that 'y'... typing mistake
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[14:18:20] * Darke watches artaxerxes correct a typing error, precicely an hour after he's made it. *grin*
[14:19:05] * artaxerxes thinks Darke will have to wait another hour before I reply to his post... :)
[14:22:59] * Darke yawns and thinks given how tired he feels, if he's still here in an hour he'll probably have a severe case of keyboard face. *grin*
[14:56:44] <artaxerxes> si-french has a new release!
[15:14:07] * Darke yays! Then wanders off to sleep. *grin* Night!
[15:14:16] <Colourless> cya
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[16:36:31] <wjp> hi
[16:36:34] <artaxerxes> hi
[16:36:42] <Colourless> hi
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[16:39:30] <wjp> grr
[16:39:41] <artaxerxes> wb
[16:39:57] <NotColourless> go away
[16:40:03] * NotColourless is the anti Colourless
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[16:45:54] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult: an open-source engine for Ultima 7: http://exult.sf.net/
[16:45:54] --- Topic for #exult set by wjp at Fri Aug 9 21:00:39 2002
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[17:11:26] * artaxerxes is gone for lunch... sheperd's pie.... yummy!
[17:11:42] <artaxerxes> bbl
[17:41:14] <artaxerxes> back
[17:49:56] <artaxerxes> my wife makes such a good shepherd's pie, it's awesome
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[19:04:18] <artaxerxes> translation question: can someone describe what a trinket is?
[19:07:17] <artaxerxes> never mind... I got it....
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[19:54:26] <Dominus> hi
[19:54:48] <Syntaxis> heya
[19:56:18] <artaxerxes> hi
[19:56:46] <Syntaxis> I'm getting no sound at all from U7:BG under Debian Sarge using Alsa 0.9 and Exult 0.99.1rc2-1... anyone got any tips?
[19:57:11] <Dominus> there is something in the docs about alsa
[19:58:44] <wjp> Debian Sarge? which one's that?
[19:58:49] <Syntaxis> I've had a scan, and all I could find was advice to use alsa to avoid "strange, noisy effects" in Linux and to avoid a nasty bug with the kernel SBLive driver
[19:58:53] <Syntaxis> Testing
[19:58:59] <wjp> ah, new name?
[19:59:10] <Syntaxis> hehe yep... Woody finally got released after almost 2 years
[20:00:16] <wjp> hm, let's see... no sound at all?
[20:00:22] <wjp> which SDL are you using? 1.2.5?
[20:01:08] <Syntaxis> 1.2.4-1
[20:02:21] <Syntaxis> thing is, other SDL games (e.g. Chromium) work just fine, so I don't think SDL is the problem
[20:03:12] * wjp hmms
[20:03:33] <wjp> does exult give any sound-related messages on the console?
[20:04:32] <Dominus> and although that is obvious, you did enable sound in Exult, right? :-)
[20:06:20] <Syntaxis> no error messages, it loads Timidity, "Creating new player thread" then starts. And yes, sound is enabled within Exult itself :-D
[20:07:18] <wjp> hm, I wonder if debian's SDL_mixer package is also broken
[20:07:36] <wjp> do you have a /usr/local/lib/timidity/timidity.cfg?
[20:07:47] <artaxerxes> At least Mandrake's are ok, you can believe me!
[20:08:44] <Dominus> aehm, there is no sdl_mixer needed for rc2. Syntaxis, best bet grab the latest head source from us and compile that one with sdl_mixer and see if that works
[20:09:12] <wjp> oh, right, SDL_mixer is only in the main branch
[20:09:16] <wjp> *cough*
[20:10:11] <Syntaxis> ok... thanks, I'll give that a try
[20:30:08] <Dominus> aehm is our forum down for everyone else as well?
[20:32:11] <artaxerxes> not here
[20:43:33] <wjp> it's been up and down all day for me
[20:44:12] <Dominus> k, so it is not just me
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[20:56:30] <artaxerxes> yo
[21:37:26] <artaxerxes> I am really puzzled by this... I free a pointer to a structure and I can still access its members!!!
[21:37:56] <wjp> yeah
[21:38:11] <wjp> the memory is just released; not cleared or anything
[21:38:15] <artaxerxes> I have: node *nd; nd = create_node(); destroy_node(nd); describe_node(nd) and it still works!
[21:38:41] <wjp> after freeing the node the pointer is invalid, but it hasn't changed
[21:38:42] <artaxerxes> but destroy_node does this: nd = NULL
[21:38:48] <wjp> oh?
[21:38:55] <wjp> did you pass it by reference to destroy_node?
[21:38:57] <artaxerxes> (well, partly)
[21:39:26] <artaxerxes> void destroy_node(noeud *nd)
[21:39:34] <wjp> if you free/delete a pointer, it doesn't change the pointer, and it doesn't change the contents of what the pointer was pointing to
[21:39:41] <wjp> it only frees the memory for re-use
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[21:39:53] <artaxerxes> but I reasign a NULL to the pointer though
[21:39:56] <wjp> so if you still have the pointer, you can still dereference it, although it is invalid to do so
[21:40:03] <wjp> but only in the function
[21:40:10] <artaxerxes> void detruire_noeud(noeud *nd){
[21:40:10] <artaxerxes> printf("DEBUG: destroying node %p: (%d,%d,%d,%d,%p)\n",nd,nd->x,nd->y,nd->z,nd->colour_idx,nd->suiv);fflush(stdout);
[21:40:10] <artaxerxes> if(nd->suiv != NULL){
[21:40:10] <artaxerxes> printf("WARNING: destroying a node who is not last!\n");fflush(stdout);
[21:40:10] <artaxerxes> }
[21:40:12] <artaxerxes> free(nd);
[21:40:14] <artaxerxes> }
[21:40:25] <artaxerxes> (suiv stands for next)
[21:40:29] <wjp> I know
[21:40:32] <artaxerxes> noeud is node
[21:40:38] <wjp> I know that too :-)
[21:40:40] <artaxerxes> detruire is destroy
[21:40:42] <artaxerxes> :)
[21:40:43] <wjp> and that ;-)
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[21:41:05] <wjp> where do you set the pointer to 0?
[21:41:14] <artaxerxes> in destory_list
[21:41:34] <artaxerxes> lemme try sth
[21:41:53] <artaxerxes> void detruire_liste(noeud *nd){
[21:41:53] <artaxerxes> if(nd == NULL){
[21:41:53] <artaxerxes> // nothing to do. Already empty
[21:41:53] <artaxerxes> printf("DEBUG: node is null; nothing to remove\n");fflush(stdout);
[21:41:53] <artaxerxes> return;
[21:41:55] <artaxerxes> }
[21:41:57] <artaxerxes> //printf("DEBUG: asked to destroy node (%d,%d,%d,%d)\n",nd->x,nd->y,nd->z,nd->colour_idx);fflush(stdout);
[21:41:59] <artaxerxes> if(nd->suiv != NULL){
[21:42:01] <artaxerxes> //printf("I'm not the last! (nd->suiv = %p)\n",nd->suiv);fflush(stdout);
[21:42:03] <artaxerxes> detruire_liste(nd->suiv);
[21:42:05] <artaxerxes> }
[21:42:07] <artaxerxes> nd->suiv = NULL;
[21:42:09] <artaxerxes> // detruire_noeud(nd);
[21:42:11] <artaxerxes> free(nd);
[21:42:13] <artaxerxes> nd = NULL;
[21:42:15] <artaxerxes> }
[21:43:02] <artaxerxes> maybe I should use destroy_liste(noeud nd) and use addresses
[21:43:09] <artaxerxes> &nd=null
[21:43:12] <artaxerxes> for instance
[21:45:10] <wjp> nono, the nd=0 is correct
[21:45:22] <wjp> but it doesn't get passed back to the calling function, since you're passing by value, and not by reference
[21:45:49] <wjp> when you call a function, it gets local copies of the values you pass it, so any changes you make (like nd=0) won't affect the variables in the caller
[21:45:58] <artaxerxes> I passed by reference! That's why there is a '*' before nd in (noeud *nd)
[21:46:07] <wjp> no, you passed the pointer by value
[21:46:14] <artaxerxes> ahhhh
[21:46:20] <artaxerxes> even though it's a pointer
[21:46:44] <wjp> you're just giving an address to a structure. So you can change the structure, but you can't change the pointer in the caller
[21:46:48] <artaxerxes> so &nd would be different inside the function from outside!?!
[21:46:56] <wjp> yes
[21:47:00] <artaxerxes> ahhhh
[21:47:05] <artaxerxes> that explains why
[21:47:24] <wjp> you'll have to say void detruire_liste(noeud*& nd)
[21:47:32] <artaxerxes> !?!?
[21:47:39] <wjp> assuming this is C++?
[21:47:44] <artaxerxes> nope
[21:47:45] <artaxerxes> c
[21:47:47] <wjp> ugh
[21:47:55] <wjp> ok, void detruire_liste(noeud** nd) then
[21:48:00] <artaxerxes> don't you love C ? :)
[21:48:05] <wjp> no :-)
[21:48:32] <artaxerxes> a pointer to a pointer ?
[21:48:37] <artaxerxes> a pointer to a pointer to a node?
[21:48:41] <wjp> yup :-)
[21:48:44] <wjp> don't you love C? ;-)
[21:48:53] <artaxerxes> yes :-) !
[21:49:21] <wjp> if you want to change a variable the caller has, you'll have to pass a pointer to that variable
[21:49:31] <wjp> so if you want to change a pointer the caller has, you'll have to pass a pointer to that pointer
[21:49:43] <artaxerxes> and why no detruire_liste(noeud *nd) and pass the address of the pointer to it?
[21:50:07] <artaxerxes> say: detruire_liste(&nd)
[21:50:16] <artaxerxes> with nd a node
[21:50:22] <artaxerxes> instead of a pointer to a node
[21:51:54] <wjp> then it would be invalid to free that pointer you receive
[21:52:08] * artaxerxes grumbles
[21:52:14] <wjp> you'll be doing "noeud nd; free(&nd);"
[21:52:52] * artaxerxes thinks he should use c++
[21:53:04] * artaxerxes knows not much about it though
[21:53:43] <wjp> or you can just set the pointer to 0 after calling destroy_node
[21:53:51] <wjp> or consider it deleted and don't use it anymore
[21:54:38] <wjp> (the latter is something you should do whichever option you choose, btw :-) )
[21:55:07] <artaxerxes> technically yes, but I wanted to make it foolproof... :)
[21:55:26] <artaxerxes> like, what happens if I destroy a list and try to display it?
[21:55:55] <wjp> segfault, probably
[21:56:02] <artaxerxes> it must not
[21:56:09] <artaxerxes> it must display: nothing!
[21:56:15] <artaxerxes> an empty list
[21:56:22] <wjp> but it's an error to try to display something that doesn't exist
[21:56:33] <wjp> destroying a list doesn't produce an empty list, it produces garbage
[21:56:38] <artaxerxes> maybe destroy is the wrong word... I meant empty
[21:56:45] <wjp> aah
[21:56:57] <wjp> then why would you want to set the pointer to 0?
[21:56:58] <artaxerxes> like, what happens if I empty a list and try to display it?
[21:57:10] <wjp> that entirely depends on how you delete it and how you display it
[21:57:24] <wjp> and what your implementation of a list is
[21:57:39] <artaxerxes> typedef struct choucroute {
[21:57:39] <artaxerxes> short int x,y,z,colour_idx,new;
[21:57:39] <artaxerxes> struct choucroute * suiv;
[21:57:39] <artaxerxes> } noeud;
[21:57:57] <wjp> since you apparently have a concept of an 'empty list', it can't simply be a list of nodes, since you can't have a list of zero nodes
[21:58:04] <artaxerxes> choucroute stands for sauerkraut... a leftover from my C teacher
[21:58:04] <wjp> one way would be to add a dummy node to the front
[21:58:17] <artaxerxes> I see
[21:58:29] <wjp> or create a new 'liste' struct which has a noeud pointer
[21:58:56] <artaxerxes> interesting... could you develop that idea?
[21:59:17] <wjp> as in code? Or in words?
[21:59:26] <artaxerxes> words are good
[21:59:46] <wjp> hm, actually what I just said would be the entirety of that liste struct
[21:59:56] <wjp> it would be just a structure consisting of one member: a node pointer
[22:00:05] <wjp> if that pointer is 0, it's the empty list
[22:02:02] <artaxerxes> I see
[22:02:06] <artaxerxes> doable
[22:02:13] <artaxerxes> not too much code either
[22:02:49] <wjp> in effect this is practically the same as defining a list as a node*, btw
[22:03:14] <wjp> (but you encapsulate that node* into a struct)
[22:03:18] <artaxerxes> except a node has other values with it
[22:03:43] <wjp> what do you mean?
[22:03:59] <artaxerxes> short int x,y,z,colour_idx,new
[22:04:32] <wjp> I meant 'typedef noeud* liste'
[22:05:05] <artaxerxes> ahh
[22:05:31] <wjp> that way you can pass a 'liste pointer' to a function too (which of course actually passes a noeud** like before)
[22:06:44] <artaxerxes> if I have "liste master_liste", then there will be master_liste.x, master_liste.y etc ?
[22:09:58] <wjp> no
[22:10:20] <artaxerxes> it works
[22:10:26] <wjp> how did you define liste?
[22:10:53] <artaxerxes> I did not. I just added master_liste = NULL after empty_liste(master_liste)
[22:10:55] <artaxerxes> :)
[22:11:17] <wjp> I mean how did you define the type liste?
[22:11:18] <artaxerxes> (since master_liste = empty_liste(master_liste) didn't seem to work)
[22:11:26] <artaxerxes> I did not define any type liste
[22:11:44] <wjp> but you said 'if I have "liste master_liste"'?
[22:12:29] <artaxerxes> it was conjecturary... I was wondering what if I had liste master_liste (and liste defined the way you mentioned)
[22:12:40] <artaxerxes> typedef noeud* liste'
[22:12:49] <wjp> then you'd have maste_liste->x
[22:12:54] <wjp> master
[22:13:46] <artaxerxes> that's the pb... I'd still have the first node holding a x,y,z values which the graphic engine would blit
[22:14:28] <artaxerxes> In this case, I should do a 'typedef choucroute * liste'
[22:14:36] <artaxerxes> In this case, I should do a 'typedef struct choucroute * liste'
[22:14:49] <artaxerxes> hmmmm
[22:14:55] <artaxerxes> that too might not work
[22:15:08] <artaxerxes> anyways
[22:15:17] <artaxerxes> I'm happy with the result now
[22:16:38] <artaxerxes> never mind, I can do a master_liste = empty_liste(master_liste)
[22:16:53] <artaxerxes> it's jsut that my graphic rendering engine was screwed up
[22:17:30] <wjp> so the return type of empty_liste is a node*?
[22:17:47] <artaxerxes> actually, I made it void *
[22:17:57] <artaxerxes> (dunno if it's allowed)
[22:18:05] <artaxerxes> since it return NULL anyways
[22:18:07] <wjp> avoid void*'s if possible
[22:18:12] <artaxerxes> k
[22:18:31] <wjp> they just add confusion
[22:19:13] <artaxerxes> changed
[22:25:36] <wjp> http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/list.c
[22:25:55] <wjp> to illustrate the "typedef node* list" idea
[22:28:11] <artaxerxes> you're fast! :)
[22:32:12] <wjp> :-)
[22:34:48] <artaxerxes> right now, shapemaker is able to take a manually made list and to display it in 3d with the proper angle. Next step: generate the list with the mouse, by clicking and draging
[22:35:05] <artaxerxes> support z-axis and colours btw
[22:45:31] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("enough for now")
[23:04:29] <wjp> lol: http://i-want-a-website.com/about-linux/articles/sep02/nullify.shtml
[23:10:30] <artaxerxes> I was just readung it!
[23:10:32] <artaxerxes> :-)
[23:10:49] <wjp> great how everybody on /. thinks it's serious :-)
[23:10:57] <artaxerxes> the best part!
[23:11:19] <artaxerxes> I even put a comment
[23:11:24] <artaxerxes> about emavics
[23:31:54] <artaxerxes> shapemaker now displays the palette that was loaded
[23:32:03] <artaxerxes> (in the bottom left corner)
[23:32:47] <artaxerxes> so that the user can select the colour of a pixel to put
[23:33:24] <artaxerxes> gotta go
[23:33:53] <artaxerxes> the link for shapemaker is:
[23:34:04] <artaxerxes> http://si-french.sf.net/shapemaker.tar.gz
[23:34:10] <artaxerxes> just in case you wanted to poke at it
[23:34:13] <artaxerxes> bye
[23:34:21] --- artaxerxes is now known as artaxerxes|zombi
[23:37:46] --> Khumash-Gor has joined #exult
[23:37:52] <Khumash-Gor> morning
[23:57:26] <wjp> hi
[23:57:48] <Khumash-Gor> hows everything
[23:58:21] <wjp> pretty good :-)
[23:59:04] <Khumash-Gor> :)
[23:59:26] <Khumash-Gor> that crown wasn't easy to find in the shapes either, under helm frame 2, lol.
[23:59:31] <Khumash-Gor> thx for the help
[23:59:49] <wjp> np :-)