#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 5 Aug 2002 (GMT)

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[07:27:20] * Dark-Star thinks it is time to read the license agreement . . .
[07:27:20] <Dominus> depends how your provider handles download restrictions and/or if there is a thing called "fair use"
[07:27:20] <Dark-Star> I don't think so, or else I would have heard about it by other people . . .
[07:27:20] <Dominus> and the worst thing was that they went for the whole transfer volume (down AND upload)
[07:27:20] <Fingolfin> Dark-Star: you are using T-DSL flat?
[07:27:20] <Dark-Star> yep
[07:27:20] <Fingolfin> Dominus: ouch ouch :-(
[07:27:20] <Fingolfin> Dark-Star: no transfer limit I think... well I didn't download that much in the last few months, but I had some where I transfer multiple GB and never heard of them
[07:27:20] <Dark-Star> Fingolfin: glad to hear that :)
[07:27:20] <Fingolfin> Dark-Star: and I have some friends that use it pretty extensively, too, who never were "warned" or any such thing. Of ocurse, you shouldn't abuse it excessively either :-)
[07:27:20] <Dark-Star> hmm... maybe I should spread my downloads over a few more days :)
[07:27:20] <Fingolfin> Dominus: it's pretty hard to control your own transfer, though. It would be much nicer if they'd at least offered an option that say warns you for every full GB you transfer with an email (automatically).
[07:27:20] <Dominus> I'm not sure yet what to do with my need for speed
[07:27:20] <Dark-Star> I think once you're used to a flat rate you'll die when you're back on modem ... I was on 56k until monday ...
[07:27:20] <Dominus> they (Chello/UPC) offer an alternative contract with limit of 10 GB and 12 ,- for any additional GB and speed limit after hitting the 20 GB mark
[07:27:20] <Dark-Star> but now when I think about going back to 56k... *shudder*
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[07:27:20] <wjp> hm, back for a sec
[07:27:20] * Dark-Star wonders why he can't see the sign in mIRC . . .
[07:27:20] <wjp> the what sign?
[07:27:20] <Dominus> euro
[07:27:20] <Dark-Star> hehe ... seems like I'm not the only one with that problem :)
[07:27:20] <Dominus> hm, mirc *should* have no problem with the euro-sign
[07:27:20] <wjp> hmm... not good... looks like file server at my uni crashed
[07:27:20] <Dominus> though I'm using Trillian no instead of mirc (best of all IM worlds)
[07:27:20] <wjp> guess I'll have to get up early tomorrow to give it a good kicking
[07:27:20] <wjp> *sigh*
[07:27:20] <Dominus> well, about my ISP problem: now that they have canceled my contract, I'm downloading much much more :-)
[07:27:20] <Fingolfin> re wjp :-)
[07:27:20] <wjp> thx :-)
[07:27:20] <Fingolfin> Dominus: heheh
[07:27:20] <Dominus> my latest passion are US-comics...
[07:27:20] <Dark-Star> Dominus: you're not downloading copyrighted matrial, are you?? ;-)
[07:27:20] * Dark-Star looks at his 1.8 gig MAME ROM collection . . .
[07:27:20] <Dominus> no, of course not.
[07:27:20] <Dark-Star> ignore my last comment :)
[07:27:20] <Dominus> I'm only downloading those fan made comics from the net
[07:27:20] <Dominus> hmm, where is that url again?...
[07:27:20] <wjp> wow, the combat stats screen in SI was actually not working and I didn't even notice it when playing through SI
[07:27:20] <Fingolfin> hehe
[07:27:20] <wjp> btw, expect strange behaviour from exultbot's logs tonight
[07:27:20] <wjp> most likely everything we type right now will be timestamped as sometime tomorrow morning
[07:27:20] <Dark-Star> I'll go to sleep now. see ya
[07:27:20] <wjp> night
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[07:27:20] <Fingolfin> wjp: so
[07:27:20] <Fingolfin> wjp: why are you still here! :-)
[07:27:20] <wjp> ack, 2:40 already
[07:27:20] <Dominus> godd that you are asking, I didn'zt dare to
[07:27:20] <wjp> what _am_ I still doing here??
[07:27:20] <Dominus> :-)
[07:27:20] <Fingolfin> not that I don't enjoy your company :-)
[07:27:20] <wjp> heh :-)
[07:27:20] <wjp> ok, now I'm _really_ going :-)
[07:27:20] <wjp> no more open galeon windows or anything to distract me now :-)
[07:27:20] <wjp> 'night
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[07:27:20] <Fingolfin> hehe
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[07:28:31] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult: an open-source engine for Ultima 7: http://exult.sf.net/
[07:28:31] --- Topic for #exult set by wjp at Thu Jul 4 20:16:33 2002
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[08:03:46] <wjp> hi
[08:03:58] <Darke> Hi. *grin*
[08:04:43] * Darke wonders if you're on early, or he's on late. *grin*
[08:05:17] <wjp> me early :-)
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[08:05:52] * Darke snickers.
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[11:44:08] <Fingolfin> yo
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[11:50:46] <Darke> Hi.
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[14:42:28] <wjp> i
[14:42:32] <wjp> hi, even
[14:44:07] <Colourless> hi
[14:48:42] * wjp is going to re-commit all of uwadv.. yay :-)
[14:49:21] <Colourless> sounds like fun
[14:55:50] <wjp> now, let's hope diffs to the cvs-logs ML were indeed properly disabled :-)
[15:31:25] <Colourless> pick which topic in this forum was slashdotted: http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=2 (hint look at the viewed counts) :-)
[15:35:48] <wjp> lol
[15:35:58] <wjp> oooh, that one :-)
[15:36:04] * wjp was one of those :-)
[15:36:15] <Colourless> :-)
[15:36:31] <wjp> "(no one interested though...)" view count: 43K :-)
[15:37:24] <Colourless> hehe yeah :-)
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[15:57:27] <wjp> hi
[15:57:34] <Colourless> hi
[16:02:26] * wjp grins at Fingolfin's email
[16:02:44] <wjp> story doesn't sound familiar, btw
[16:03:05] <Fingolfin> hehe
[16:03:51] <Fingolfin> we have this story, there is a hedgehog (not a fast runner normally), and a rabbit. They agree to race against each other. The hedgehog however is clever and has a big family. He puts his wife (looks the same to the rabbit) at the finish line, and thus mysteryously always manages to beat the rabbit :-)
[16:04:03] <wjp> ok, that one
[16:04:08] <wjp> I do know it :-)
[16:04:26] <wjp> but it isn't a hedgehod in the version I know
[16:04:31] <wjp> hog*
[16:06:37] <Fingolfin> what is it then?
[16:06:46] <wjp> I'm trying to remember :-)
[16:06:53] <Fingolfin> heheh
[16:07:15] <Fingolfin> in German, it's sort of a proverb : "Has' und Igel", where Igel = Hedgehog and Has'=Hase=rabbit
[16:07:16] <wjp> it's a hare and a .... a .... ack
[16:07:43] <wjp> hm, Hase doesn't really sound like rabbit
[16:07:54] <wjp> wasn't it a hare?
[16:08:01] <Fingolfin> yeah it's a hare here, too, rabbit is bad :-)
[16:08:12] <wjp> a hare and a .... ACK
[16:08:15] <Fingolfin> rabbit and hare look similar
[16:08:17] <Fingolfin> rabbit is smaller
[16:08:24] <Fingolfin> I just couldn't remeber "hare", thanks :-)
[16:08:33] <wjp> I'll go ask my parents :-)
[16:08:38] <Fingolfin> hehehe
[16:08:52] <wjp> parents are supposed to know these things :-)
[16:09:36] <Fingolfin> exactly. they have to be good for something after all :-)
[16:12:40] * wjp didn't find his parents, but did find a book with the story
[16:12:49] <wjp> it was a toad in that version
[16:13:06] <Fingolfin> ah ok
[16:13:16] <Fingolfin> a snail would probably work even better, right? :-)
[16:13:22] <wjp> probably, yes :-)
[16:13:28] <wjp> tortoise would be good too :-)
[16:13:49] <Fingolfin> yeah
[16:13:53] <Colourless> hare and tortoise is a different story here...
[16:15:07] <wjp> which one?
[16:16:20] <Colourless> hare and tortoise have a race. the rabbit for sure thinks and slackens off, and the tortoise manages to win purely by chance because, according to the story, the hare fell asleep and the tortoise got in front
[16:16:41] <wjp> hm, yes, sounds familiar
[16:17:12] <wjp> oops... uwadv's configure.in checks HOST and TARGET instead of BUILD and HOST
[16:19:01] <wjp> huh? exult's does too??
[16:19:53] <wjp> hm, cvs annotate points at fingolfin
[16:21:09] <Fingolfin> hum?
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[16:22:12] <vividos> hi there
[16:22:13] <wjp> hi
[16:22:20] <Colourless> hi
[16:22:48] <vividos> wjp: it seems tortoisecvs does the conversion automatically, everything works for me
[16:23:06] <wjp> that's good :-)
[16:25:48] <wjp> I spent a while configuring my emacs properly, btw, so it should now automatically use the correct indentation rules for uwadv :-)
[16:26:00] <wjp> (i.e., 3 spaces, no tabs)
[16:26:31] <Colourless> wjp: what indentaion do you normally use?
[16:26:33] <vividos> ok. what was that about the configure.in?
[16:26:40] <wjp> 4 spaces
[16:27:00] <wjp> and I think emacs was set to use tabs before
[16:27:26] <wjp> Exult's indentations are probably one big mess, aren't they?
[16:27:34] <Colourless> yes they are
[16:27:48] <wjp> vividos: it does a AC_CANONICAL_HOST and AC_CANONICAL_TARGET
[16:28:02] <wjp> while I think it should be doing a ..._BUILD and ..._HOST
[16:28:07] <Colourless> i even changed from 8 to 4 over the time i've been working with exult. so even some parts of my code uses 8 and others use 4 :-)
[16:28:25] <Colourless> i'm pretty sure jeff uses 8
[16:28:36] <wjp> my emacs changes indent level depending on the directory I'm in, currently :-)
[16:29:37] <wjp> vividos: do you think we should rename configure.in to configure.ac?
[16:29:46] <wjp> I noticed the info pages recommend .ac since 2.50
[16:30:08] <vividos> wjp: just change it, I'm not a autoconf expert
[16:30:16] <wjp> me neither :-)
[16:30:30] <wjp> I've never seen a configure.ac "in the wild", actually
[16:31:04] <vividos> I've seen one once, besides a configure.in that contained the same
[16:43:26] <vividos> are you able to compile and run projects from within emacs?
[16:43:40] <wjp> yes, probably
[16:43:52] <vividos> but you don't do that?
[16:43:55] <wjp> no
[16:44:12] <wjp> I make and run from a shell
[16:44:39] <vividos> ah ok. isn't that a bit hard to debug?
[16:45:48] <wjp> hm, dunno. gdb works ok
[16:46:14] <vividos> :)
[16:48:06] * wjp is confused
[16:48:16] <wjp> autoheader says it needs a 'AC_CONFIG_HEADERS'
[16:48:25] <wjp> but using that makes automake complain
[16:49:20] <vividos> maybe autoheader isn't aware of the AM macros, especially AM_CONFIG_HEADER
[16:49:51] <wjp> AM_CONFIG_HEADER apparently calls AC_CONFIG_HEADER (note the missing 'S") internally
[16:50:25] <wjp> but I can't find that anywhere in the autoconf infopages
[16:50:29] <vividos> maybe a newer autoheader is needed
[16:50:37] <wjp> hm, autoheader comes with autoconf
[16:50:52] <vividos> I used autoconf-2.53 and automake-1.6.1 for the files
[16:51:05] <wjp> I'm currently using autoconf-2.53 and automake-1.6.3
[16:54:00] <vividos> hmm, the config.h isn'
[16:54:10] <vividos> isn't in my working copy
[16:54:28] <wjp> yeah, config.h is generated from config.h.in by configure
[16:54:42] <wjp> and config.h.in is generated from configure.in by autoheader
[16:54:45] <vividos> d'oh, of course not, it is generated by .. autoheader?
[16:54:47] <vividos> ah ok
[16:56:19] <wjp> hm, while automake does complain if I use AC_CONFIG_HEADERS, it does create the Makefile.in's properly
[16:56:43] <vividos> maybe it's a known bug for the auto* tools
[16:58:31] <wjp> quite possibly, yes
[16:59:36] <vividos> about the install target ... the uadata resource files should be installed, too
[16:59:59] <wjp> what exactly has to be installed?
[17:00:15] <wjp> I read something about packing lua scripts together in one file or something?
[17:00:50] <vividos> the executable, the uwadv.cfg (in the same dir as the executable) and the uadata00.uar that can be produced with the makefile in the uadata folder
[17:01:06] <vividos> you need luac, though
[17:03:13] <wjp> hm, that's in lua/src, it seems?
[17:03:25] <vividos> yes, the makefile should produce the binary
[17:03:26] <wjp> lua/src/luac, even
[17:03:32] <vividos> oh yes
[17:04:23] <vividos> and UADATAPATH should be set properly in configure.in (@datadir@ or something). could be /usr/share/games/uwadv/
[17:04:51] * wjp nods
[17:05:01] <wjp> I was thinking of making that a configure switch
[17:05:13] <wjp> um, no, wait
[17:05:19] <wjp> that was the uw1 path :-)
[17:06:16] <vividos> the uw1 path could be configurable, too
[17:06:34] <vividos> I just set it to /usr/local/games/uw1/
[17:06:36] <wjp> hm, I don't want to install uwadv.cfg in the same dir as the binary, btw
[17:06:57] <vividos> then some code has to be changed. global uwadv.cfg or a user-based one?
[17:07:03] <wjp> both, preferably
[17:07:17] <wjp> something we never got around to doing properly in exult
[17:08:13] <wjp> it would be nice if uwadv would read config settings from /usr/share/games/uwadv/uwadv.cfg, and overwrite those with settings from ~/.uwadv.cfg
[17:08:15] <vividos> I suggest a HAVE_HOME_DIR define or similar to separate the behavior from the win32 one
[17:08:23] <wjp> sounds good
[17:08:55] <vividos> the first path could go into config.h and the second one can be hard-coded (right?)
[17:09:11] <wjp> I'll copy the filename code from exult (unix: ~/.uwadv.cfg, windows: uwadv.cfg, beos: ~/config/settings/uwadv.cfg, etc..
[17:09:40] <wjp> the path to the file in your homedir, you mean? yeah, that can be hardcoded
[17:09:59] <vividos> yes
[17:10:34] <wjp> although a command line option to specify a different config file might also be desirable sometime in the future
[17:10:54] <wjp> (just something to keep in mind; no need to have that currently)
[17:11:00] <vividos> hmm ok
[17:11:16] <vividos> do you want to do the changes?
[17:11:27] <wjp> in exult it's becoming quite useful now that we have two branches, and people translating it :-)
[17:11:43] <wjp> I have at least 4 copies of data files around with 4 separate config files pointing to them :-)
[17:11:57] <vividos> :)
[17:12:00] <wjp> yeah, I can do the changes if you want
[17:14:35] <vividos> hmm, we could even put the config file stuff in the ua_files_manager
[17:14:37] <wjp> ok, currently configure.ac uses OPENGL_LIBS="-lGL -lGLU" by default, and OPENGL_LIBS="" on $host_os=darwin*
[17:14:56] <vividos> good
[17:15:25] <wjp> automake is still producing that warning, but I'll just leave that for now
[17:15:30] <vividos> ok
[17:16:27] <vividos> hmm, do you have some extra code you want to add to the settings loader? I think I have an idea to solve the config files problem nicely
[17:17:33] <wjp> I haven't looked at the settings code yet
[17:17:50] <wjp> what do you have in mind?
[17:18:55] <vividos> the ua_files_manager returns a list of file names that should be loaded as cfg files, and the ua_settings just loads all of them
[17:19:09] <vividos> ua_files_manager::init() prepares the list
[17:19:21] <wjp> in order, overwriting any already defined keys?
[17:20:04] <vividos> hmm, I wanted to put keys in another file, since that one could have more "sections"
[17:20:25] <vividos> or do you mean settings with "keys"?
[17:20:40] <wjp> yeah
[17:21:06] <wjp> a key is what you use to identify an item in a DB
[17:21:07] <vividos> yes, the later files overwrite the values defined in them
[17:21:23] <wjp> config settings can be considered (key,value) pairs
[17:21:39] <vividos> yes, just like in a std::map
[17:21:52] <wjp> yeah
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[17:22:44] <wjp> I'd store them internally in a std::map too, I guess
[17:23:11] <wjp> and access them with something like ua_settings::get("uadata_path")
[17:23:14] <wjp> hi
[17:23:40] <vividos> currently there are only some options, but I guess we should change it that way. we could use an enum for the "key"
[17:23:40] <wjp> although we'd have to think about how to store different types
[17:24:20] <vividos> we could use a variant union, but I think that's sort of ugly
[17:24:28] <wjp> yes :-)
[17:25:33] <wjp> or store everything internally as strings, and have different access functions
[17:25:38] <wjp> (get_string, get_int, get_bool)
[17:26:20] <vividos> yes, that would be good. I just commited the files.hpp file, btw
[17:26:55] <vividos> I think I will move game type determination into ua_files_manager, too
[17:28:18] <vividos> ok, have to go now. bye!
[17:28:24] <wjp> bye
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[18:00:38] <wjp> bbl, dinner
[18:01:07] <Fingolfin> same here
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[18:01:58] <Dark-Star> dinner, now that's a good idea :)
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[18:17:37] <Dominus> hi
[18:17:55] <Colourless> hi
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[18:38:11] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult: an open-source engine for Ultima 7: http://exult.sf.net/
[18:38:11] --- Topic for #exult set by wjp at Thu Jul 4 20:16:33 2002
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[18:39:47] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult: an open-source engine for Ultima 7: http://exult.sf.net/
[18:39:47] --- Topic for #exult set by wjp at Thu Jul 4 20:16:33 2002
[18:40:08] <wjp> having some trouble counting? ;-)
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[19:23:42] <Colourless> heh, i've finally been able to test my compiler of of sdl_mixer for pocketpc. i 'ported' over my work in progress fm synth midi player from exult into pentagram and compiled for PocketPC, and it worked just fine :-)
[19:24:15] * Dominus whoo-whoos
[19:24:31] <Dominus> cool
[19:24:41] <Colourless> it's not 'that' special :-)
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[19:50:15] <wjp> looks like Dominus managed to trigger the uwadv blue-screen again :-)
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[19:58:08] <Fingolfin|dinner> hehe
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[20:54:19] <Dominus> hmm
[20:54:44] <Dominus> 1.1.x adds a section called <level> to reverb and chorus in exult.cfg
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[21:18:35] <Dominus> bbl
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[22:08:27] <wjp> hi again
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[22:08:40] <Dominus> hi
[23:09:02] <wjp> time to go
[23:09:03] <wjp> g'night
[23:09:08] <Dominus> bye
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[23:09:23] <Dominus> hmm, going as well
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