#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 5 Dec 2000 (GMT)

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[Tue Dec 5 00:13:10 2000] #Exult: --> freedman has joined #Exult
[Tue Dec 5 00:18:32 2000] #Exult: <freedman> Nobody here, and it's dark. Don't want to get attacked by a Grue.
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[Tue Dec 5 03:12:53 2000] #exult: <Kefka> .
[Tue Dec 5 06:51:38 2000] #exult: --> matto has joined #exult
[Tue Dec 5 06:51:45 2000] #exult: <matto> hmm
[Tue Dec 5 06:51:55 2000] #exult: <-- matto has left #exult
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[Tue Dec 5 06:52:26 2000] #exult: --- matto has changed the topic to: http://exult.sourceforge.net
[Tue Dec 5 06:54:51 2000] #exult: --> wjp has joined #exult
[Tue Dec 5 06:54:57 2000] #exult: <wjp> morning
[Tue Dec 5 06:55:12 2000] #exult: <Kirben> re
[Tue Dec 5 06:55:30 2000] #exult: <matto> hey wjp
[Tue Dec 5 06:55:40 2000] #exult: <Kirben> btw that new health cheat is missing a poision cure
[Tue Dec 5 06:56:35 2000] #exult: <wjp> good point
[Tue Dec 5 07:11:02 2000] #exult: <wjp> fixed
[Tue Dec 5 07:12:40 2000] #exult: <-- matto has left IRC (I'm too lame to make a quit message)
[Tue Dec 5 07:13:00 2000] #exult: <wjp> hmm... let's clear hunger levels too
[Tue Dec 5 07:18:35 2000] #exult: <wjp> brb
[Tue Dec 5 08:09:45 2000] #exult: --> exultbot has joined #exult
[Tue Dec 5 08:16:27 2000] #exult: <wjp> ?exult
[Tue Dec 5 08:16:27 2000] #exult: <exultbot> Exult is a project to create an Ultima 7 game engine that runs on modern operating systems, capable of using the data and graphics files that come with the game. See http://exult.sourceforge.net/ for more information.
[Tue Dec 5 08:24:05 2000] #exult: --> Nadir has joined #exult
[Tue Dec 5 08:24:15 2000] #exult: <wjp> hi
[Tue Dec 5 08:24:20 2000] #exult: <Nadir> hi'll
[Tue Dec 5 08:25:27 2000] #exult: <Nadir> What a crowd
[Tue Dec 5 08:25:35 2000] #exult: <wjp> you should've been here last night :-)
[Tue Dec 5 08:25:38 2000] #exult: <Nadir> wjp, how do we use the bot ?
[Tue Dec 5 08:25:53 2000] #exult: <wjp> it basically just logs, but you can say "?help" for a list of commands
[Tue Dec 5 08:26:08 2000] #exult: <wjp> exultbot: say #exult hi Nadir!
[Tue Dec 5 08:26:08 2000] #exult: <exultbot> hi Nadir!
[Tue Dec 5 08:26:13 2000] #exult: <wjp> ;-)
[Tue Dec 5 08:27:00 2000] #exult: <Nadir> say #exult Wjp should really explain some of the more useful features :-)
[Tue Dec 5 08:27:13 2000] #exult: <Nadir> exultbot: say #exult Wjp should really explain some of the more useful features :-)
[Tue Dec 5 08:27:24 2000] #exult: <Nadir> whatever ...
[Tue Dec 5 08:29:21 2000] #exult: <wjp> you can't do that :-)
[Tue Dec 5 08:29:36 2000] #exult: <wjp> (security 'feature')
[Tue Dec 5 08:29:58 2000] #exult: <wjp> what do you want to know?
[Tue Dec 5 08:30:02 2000] #exult: <Nadir> logs ?
[Tue Dec 5 08:30:19 2000] #exult: <wjp> http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php3
[Tue Dec 5 08:30:20 2000] #exult: <wjp> for now
[Tue Dec 5 08:30:36 2000] #exult: <wjp> I'm still working on the output. (it's a bit ugly, atm)
[Tue Dec 5 08:32:44 2000] #exult: <wjp> I'm going to do some studying
[Tue Dec 5 08:32:49 2000] #exult: --- wjp is now known as wjp|away
[Tue Dec 5 08:32:51 2000] #exult: <Nadir> Excellent. Maybe we should add that to the web page.
[Tue Dec 5 08:33:17 2000] #exult: <wjp|away> maybe we should, but not until it looks better :-)
[Tue Dec 5 08:33:28 2000] #exult: <wjp|away> *away*
[Tue Dec 5 09:09:42 2000] #exult: --- wjp|away is now known as wjp
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[09:56:25] <wjp> testing
[09:56:41] --- wjp is now known as notwjp
[09:56:44] <notwjp> testing too
[09:56:55] --- notwjp is now known as wjp
[09:57:47] * wjp testing again
[10:00:11] <Nadir> Color logs !
[10:01:11] <wjp> yup :-)
[10:01:16] <wjp> still working on it though
[10:01:42] <wjp> I have a class in a few minutes. I'll be back in a few hours
[10:01:46] --- wjp is now known as wjp|away
[10:01:53] <Nadir> So, you were away studying, or hacking the color logs ??? :-)
[10:01:58] <wjp|away> umm....
[10:02:02] <wjp|away> guilty :-)
[10:10:59] <wjp|away> exultbot: quit
[10:11:11] <Nadir> it ain't quitting !
[10:12:31] --> exultbot has joined #exult
[10:12:35] <wjp|away> testing
[10:12:48] <wjp|away> please check it :-)
[10:12:50] * wjp|away has to run now
[10:12:55] <wjp|away> *gone*
[10:19:33] <Nadir> will do
[10:21:47] <Nadir> looks good
[10:25:11] <Nadir> Should split logs by date
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[15:34:43] <Nadir> It's not Timidity, really, just Dancer's convoluted code...
[15:34:49] <TonyHoyt> From all the posts I've been hearing about it. sounds like it's only been hell since day one with it.
[15:34:52] <wjp> ok, let's see how exultbot's new logging behaves....
[15:35:05] <TonyHoyt> exultbot: Run away! Run Away!
[15:35:15] <TonyHoyt> *g*
[15:35:26] <Nadir> it lives !!!!
[15:35:44] * exultbot runs away and hides
[15:35:54] <TonyHoyt> Sooo, what else is in the plans for hacking and stuff.
[15:36:04] <TonyHoyt> That was cute, wjp.
[15:36:53] <wjp> hmm... maybe a bit too colourful this way
[15:36:55] <Nadir> Once the Timidity problem is killed, I guess there won't be too many showstoppers for another alpha release.
[15:37:16] <wjp> take a look at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php3
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[15:38:28] <Nadir> wjp: Looking good
[15:38:34] <wjp> not too colourful?
[15:38:37] <Nadir> exultbot: ?faq
[15:38:37] <exultbot> You can find the semi-official FAQ at: http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a9848357/exult/exult_faq.htm
[15:38:39] <TonyHoyt> Seems like the Timidity problem has has been a one of hte bigest pains for this project.
[15:39:09] <TonyHoyt> Is "red" For all non-op regular users?
[15:39:09] <wjp> I think the rendering pipeline might be worse
[15:39:17] <wjp> TonyHoyt: yup
[15:39:38] <TonyHoyt> Kind of bright if that's going to be one of the most often seen color there.
[15:40:05] <TonyHoyt> Rendering Pipeline as in the blasted redraw issues with big weapons in the game?
[15:40:08] <wjp> I'm thinking 4 different colours: exultbot, developer, op, others
[15:40:21] <wjp> no, not just the weapon rendering
[15:40:33] <wjp> the rendering order of every single shape onscreen
[15:40:40] <TonyHoyt> *chuckles* I though you guys snaged that one a couple weeks ago?
[15:41:23] <Nadir> TonyHoyt: no real problem with Timidity is that we're running it via a pipe and mixing the output with everything else. We do our own mixing. The problem is the interaction between threads, mutexes, etc...
[15:41:39] <TonyHoyt> on colors: I think for 'others' you might want to try something more neutral like a gray or dark purple. that red you use is too bright.
[15:41:59] <wjp> purple? ok...
[15:42:06] <TonyHoyt> Well Something darker.
[15:42:14] * wjp hacks
[15:42:47] <TonyHoyt> Nadir: So your haveing a problem with the threads and the multiplexer? *lightly confused*
[15:43:19] <wjp> TonyHoyt: like this?
[15:43:23] <Nadir> mutex!=multiplexer
[15:43:36] <Nadir> mutex==semaphore
[15:43:48] <wjp> or maybe switch purple and blue?
[15:44:53] <TonyHoyt> I think it's better. But no darker? It seems like your putting more emphasis on the 'other' characters then you are the higher level staff. I think that should be the other way around, then again I maybe over analizeing it.
[15:45:13] <Nadir> When we finally get round to developing our own game with Exult, we should really ask the person who is doing the graphics for WorldForge to do some tiles for us. http://www.worldforge.org/images/screenshots/meadow_test_8_us.jpg
[15:45:13] <TonyHoyt> Give me a definiton of a semaphore then, I'm lacking in hacking knowlage here.
[15:46:06] <wjp> TonyHoyt: ok, how about this?
[15:47:32] <Nadir> semaphores allow you to implement locks between concurrent threads so they don't overwrite each other's data
[15:47:32] <TonyHoyt> WorldForge... What is that actually? The image looks neat.
[15:47:32] <TonyHoyt> wjp: Hey I think that's perfect. *g* Looks good looks good.
[15:48:11] * wjp makes the green and cyan a bit darker too
[15:50:50] <Nadir> wjp: what about URL recognition ?
[15:50:50] <Nadir> exultbot: ?help
[15:50:50] <TonyHoyt> Nadir: Ahhh Interesting.
[15:50:50] <Nadir> exultbot: ?ver
[15:50:50] <TonyHoyt> Well not to get too deep into it, so you would use Semaphores to stop one thread from access another threads data or functions? I missing something?
[15:50:50] <TonyHoyt> ?help
[15:50:50] <TonyHoyt> Exultbot and wjp timeout?
[15:50:58] <wjp> ?
[15:51:12] <wjp> exultbot replies privately to ?help
[15:51:18] <Nadir> TonyHoyt: worldforge is creating an opensource MMORPG (like UltimaOnline)
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[15:53:19] <TonyHoyt> Oooooooh Sweet, sweet. Looks like UO to some degree. how much have they done so far?
[15:53:19] <Nadir> TonyHoyt: re:threads - you've got it.
[15:53:19] <TonyHoyt> Semaphores: Bizzare but it sounds logical.
[15:53:19] <TonyHoyt> Cool.
[15:53:19] <TonyHoyt> Exultbot seemed like it was lagging for a second.
[15:53:47] <wjp> could be, our connection isn't all that great over here
[15:54:03] <TonyHoyt> *nods*
[15:54:18] <wjp> ooops... wrong color code
[15:55:01] <TonyHoyt> Wow, WorldForge looks really nice. Do they have paperdolls like UO down and everything? That'll have to be somethign I check out later this week.
[15:55:08] <Nadir> re:worldforge - They've done quite a bit. They've got an open client/server architecture where they plan to implement many types of games. Check their web page for more screenshots
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[15:56:56] <TonyHoyt> Hmm I see that there is no windows version yet. But in time I hope. We'll see.. I have SunOS but only at 256 colors.
[15:57:34] * wjp sighs
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[15:58:37] <wjp> ok, this should work
[15:58:54] <wjp> ok, that did the trick
[15:59:03] <wjp> ok, I say ok too much
[15:59:21] <Nadir> I might quote that :-)
[15:59:39] <exultbot> testing
[15:59:47] <TonyHoyt> *laughs* I wish, I already have one dead 45 GB drive I need to send back to the manufacture. *Sigh* Pain in the....
[15:59:57] <wjp> I'm going home
[16:00:01] <wjp> bbl
[16:00:04] <TonyHoyt> I don't want to dule boot honestly. Got enough groubles with my system. Later Wjp.
[16:00:08] <-- wjp has left IRC ([x]chat)
[16:00:53] <Nadir> I work with tons of disks
[16:01:54] <TonyHoyt> My computer feels so flaky right now I'm afraid to almost touch it for fear of it crashing. Dam thing... But I also have a sun box at home I still need to set up. *sigh* That's a sweet system but I have some problems with it right now.
[16:03:59] <Nadir> Easy solution: wipe windows and install a sensible Linux distro
[16:04:00] <Nadir> :-)
[16:04:29] <Nadir> As long as you can play Exult on it you don't need anything else...
[16:04:44] <TonyHoyt> Ehhh no.
[16:05:05] <TonyHoyt> I still ahve to play some cool windows games and untill I'm finished with alll of them. It's staying there.
[16:05:40] <Nadir> Run them with Wine. http://www.winehq.com. It even gives you D3D h/w acceleration
[16:06:06] <TonyHoyt> wine runs with DirectX support?\
[16:06:11] <Nadir> yep
[16:06:15] <TonyHoyt> Wiiiiiiiiiierd.
[16:06:26] <TonyHoyt> How well does it run though?
[16:06:56] <Nadir> Very. Games don't need much Windoze internals, apart from DirectX
[16:07:17] <Nadir> I'll find a link for you...
[16:07:39] <TonyHoyt> Hmmmm Wierd. Well that sounds cool. Although I don't know if I honestly want to set up all that software. I'm not a unix guru. I hardly know enough to log me in to this dam sun box.
[16:11:52] <Nadir> what kind of sun is it ?
[16:12:28] <TonyHoyt> Solaris 7 With an UltraSparc II in it.
[16:13:39] <Nadir> No, the name of the box...
[16:13:47] <TonyHoyt> Why?
[16:14:10] <TonyHoyt> Not to be rude but that's something I don't give out.
[16:14:18] <Nadir> I'm just interested in the model.
[16:14:58] <TonyHoyt> Oh It's not a Ultra 1 or something like that. This is a custom box from a company we order from. It's basicly a bunch of sun parts in a custom chassy.
[16:15:16] <TonyHoyt> I though you where asking for my uname or something.
[16:16:27] <Nadir> Tried Exult on it ?
[16:17:00] <TonyHoyt> No, not yet, I need to get gcc. Plus I keep forgetting to bring in my U7 CD to install the data files.
[16:17:39] <Nadir> what's the name of that site with lots of precompiled free packages for Solaris ?
[16:18:23] <TonyHoyt> *Shrugs* I have noooooooo idea what your talking about.
[16:21:33] <Nadir> http://www.sunfreeware.com/
[16:23:09] <TonyHoyt> Just a bunch of pre-compiled stuff?
[16:24:25] <Nadir> Yep. It has gcc and all.
[16:26:18] <TonyHoyt> Hmm That's cool.
[16:26:26] <TonyHoyt> I still need a copy of u7. *sigh*
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[16:44:48] <TonyHoyt> It Lives!
[16:51:23] --> Kefka has joined #exult
[16:52:13] <TonyHoyt> Hi Kefka.
[16:55:44] <Kefka> Hi
[16:55:52] <Kefka> morning
[16:56:20] <Kefka> exultbot: wassup
[16:56:20] <exultbot> Hi Kefka!
[16:58:22] <Nadir> Stop touching exultbot :-)
[16:59:01] <exultbot> yes, stop it ;-)
[16:59:45] <Kefka> hahah
[16:59:56] <Kefka> :)
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[17:39:56] <Nadir> Thanks to Ryan, I may have squashed all problems with Timidity !
[17:49:04] <TonyHoyt> Eh? how so?
[17:50:03] <TonyHoyt> Ahhh I see the posts now.
[17:50:33] <TonyHoyt> Just downloaded the messages from the mailing list. Okay okay. So you think you got it squished then? Hacking the Timidity source to do it or what?
[17:53:59] <Nadir> Timidity has never been the problem. SDL's threads (at least under Linux) don't like to be "joined". I guess it's a bug with SDL. I'll send a bug report in their direction...
[17:54:14] <Nadir> I'm using standard Linux threads now
[17:55:53] <TonyHoyt> *nods* Gotcha. So going with standard threads you think will help prevent the problem? Might be SDL has a funky method if joining threads that you unaware of. *shrugs*.
[17:56:46] <Nadir> Ultima's music is great
[18:00:12] <TonyHoyt> *laughs* Got it going hu? I think it stinks on midi though, even if I got an SB Live. Still sounds bad.
[18:03:14] <Nadir> Timidity renders MIDI using the Gravis Ultrasound patches. Actually I'm using an even better sound bank which is 33MB !!!
[18:04:19] <TonyHoyt> God dam 33MB's of sound? Naaaaaaaasty. God that's got to be cool. Sounds good then?
[18:06:14] <Nadir> Obviously it only loads the ones it needs. It can use SoundBlaster SoundFonts as well.
[18:06:58] <TonyHoyt> Hmm Neat neat. Well It sounds like it could be cool. Although it still is old midi data ment for a simple <16 channel orchestra. But it's cool.
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[19:02:16] <Nadir> bye all
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[19:17:09] <jameson> Hi!
[19:17:28] <Kefka> hey
[19:19:24] <Kefka> bbl
[19:22:52] <jameson> ok, bye!
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[19:46:05] <jameson> Hi!
[19:46:18] <freedman> Hi. Anything happening here?
[19:46:28] <jameson> Not really...
[19:46:43] <jameson> Nice place to relax, though ;-)
[19:46:46] --> wjp has joined #exult
[19:46:50] <jameson> Hi!
[19:46:52] <wjp> FINALLY
[19:46:55] <jameson> ?
[19:46:59] <wjp> I thought they'd never fix that routing problem
[19:47:06] <jameson> Ah.
[19:47:06] <freedman> Routing problem?
[19:47:09] <wjp> hi all
[19:47:20] <wjp> yes, packets just stopped after 3 hops
[19:47:37] <freedman> Must be why nobody was here earlier.
[19:47:51] <wjp> it's why I wasn't here, anyway :-)
[19:48:19] <wjp> great, and now I have to go...
[19:48:21] <wjp> ah well :-)
[19:48:22] <wjp> bbl
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[19:48:31] <freedman> See ya.
[19:49:01] <freedman> I just stopped in to check on bug status.
[19:49:50] <jameson> BTW, do you happen to know any full implementation of the "map" class that doesn't depend on anything special? (i.e. not in any compiler package, STL, etc)
[19:50:19] <freedman> No, just the one in STL. Why not use that?
[19:50:32] <jameson> Because it doesn't work on the Alpha ;-)
[19:50:48] <jameson> Actually, I may have broken it with my evil namespace mangling...
[19:50:51] <freedman> Oh, I see. Does hash_map work.
[19:50:55] <jameson> Nope.
[19:51:33] <freedman> Strange that something so fundamental doesn't work. A problem with template support?
[19:52:15] <jameson> Well, C++ is pretty broken on the Alpha anyway. I don't know of any special problems with templates, but virtual function tables are generated incorrectly.
[19:52:30] <jameson> (This is a known problem, and will hopefully be fixed in 2.95.3).
[19:52:41] <freedman> That's pretty bad.
[19:52:44] <jameson> That's why I'm using Compaq's proprietary cxx compiler ATM.
[19:52:59] <freedman> And that doesn't support STL?
[19:53:17] <jameson> Unfortunately, the system headers use a lot of g++ namespace mangling magic (automagically declare stuff in both :: and std::), so cxx has severe problems with them.
[19:53:28] <jameson> I don't really know about STL, though...
[19:54:20] <freedman> I don't even understand that stuff. I tend to stick to the simpler C++ features.
[19:55:02] <jameson> I guess those should be more portable anyway.
[19:55:41] <freedman> Yes. Looks like you're stuck until you get a working g++.
[19:55:50] <jameson> I don't know if I'll be able to fix Exult to work with both cxx and the Debian includes (in some sensible time scale).
[19:55:57] <jameson> I guess you're right there.
[19:56:27] <freedman> Well, it's lunch time here. Later.
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[19:56:37] <jameson> Ok, see you!
[21:21:59] <jameson> For those who care: After some beating, many of the files are compiling with cxx on Linux/Alpha now.
[21:49:32] <jameson> OK, after switching to non-hashing maps and sets (and altering the cxx header files), I'm now much more optimistic that Exult can be made to compile on the Alpha.
[21:50:51] <jameson> wjp: Regarding yesterdays announcement that I didn't have time to work on this: The job that was going to take most of that time solved itself over night. I'll explain this some other time.
[21:51:25] <jameson> Bye!
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[23:07:19] <wjp> test
[23:08:23] --> exultbot has joined #exult
[23:08:25] <wjp> testing