#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 5 Jul 2002 (GMT)

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[00:01:04] <DominatoR^^^HC> I'm restarting a new game...
[00:01:14] <DominatoR^^^HC> maybe I'll put a new teleport egg with exult studio...
[00:02:20] <Colourless> that wont help afaik
[00:02:34] <DominatoR^^^HC> FOUND!!!!
[00:02:36] <DominatoR^^^HC> ^^
[00:02:40] <DominatoR^^^HC> it was hidden ...
[00:03:05] <DominatoR^^^HC> another question... I'm a linux programmer...
[00:03:13] <DominatoR^^^HC> who is involved in pentagram project?
[00:03:21] <DominatoR^^^HC> I can help if anything is needed
[00:03:34] <Colourless> We both are
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[00:03:59] <DominatoR^^^HC> ops... Colourless.. I'm talking with you... on the island :P
[00:04:01] <DominatoR^^^HC> eheh
[00:04:09] <Darke> We're currently ruminating over pentagram at the moment. *grin*
[00:04:32] <Colourless> Darke is on the island too :-)
[00:04:40] <DominatoR^^^HC> hahahaah :P talked with you, too Darke ^^
[00:04:52] * Darke looks innocent.
[00:04:57] <Colourless> please be not killing us :-)
[00:05:11] <DominatoR^^^HC> no, don't worry... :P
[00:05:43] <DominatoR^^^HC> however I was saying... if there's something needed I could help...
[00:06:00] <DominatoR^^^HC> maybe some annoying task that you can't do at the moment...
[00:06:07] <DominatoR^^^HC> I have some free time ^^
[00:06:24] * Colourless looks around and peers into the empty cvs repository
[00:06:33] <Colourless> hmmm, we need 'everything'
[00:06:39] <Colourless> but we aren't looking for help at the moment
[00:06:55] <Colourless> ask again once we've even figured out what we are doing
[00:07:00] <Darke> We're currently still working on the design. *grin*
[00:07:03] <DominatoR^^^HC> sure...
[00:07:37] <Darke> We've got a few tools floating around, but they're just that, atm.
[00:07:48] <Colourless> they are things to hack to test out idea :-)
[00:07:48] <DominatoR^^^HC> well ... I'm going to play the lost FAQ... :P bye bye and thanks again for the help...
[00:07:59] <Darke> No problem. *grin* Bye!
[00:08:02] <Colourless> cya
[00:08:19] <DominatoR^^^HC> I'll come here on the channel when I have some free time... so maybe I'll find jobs to do :P
[00:08:20] <DominatoR^^^HC> bye
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[00:24:38] <Colourless> time to go
[00:24:46] <Colourless> cya
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[04:14:12] <EazyCheez> Exxie exxie zult zult zult, Exxie exxie zult zult zult, Exxie exxie zult zult zult, EXxie zult zult zult! (to the tune of the William Tell Overture)
[04:18:20] * Darke thinks 'exult' is easier to fit into the Imperial March, then into the William Tell Ovature. *grin*
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[05:30:33] <sbx> hi again
[05:30:42] <sbx> Oh everyone else is gone :|
[05:33:21] * sbx wonders if anyone is at keyboard and coherent.
[06:05:10] <Darke> 'ello.
[06:05:29] * Darke is sometimes at the keyboard and rarely coherent.
[06:07:48] <sbx> looks like I missed all the interesting Pentagram discussion
[06:08:04] <sbx> and miscellaneous discussion
[06:09:34] * Darke noddles. Now it's quiet. A little bit _too_ quiet.
[06:09:51] <sbx> hmm
[06:10:31] <sbx> Exxie exxie zult zult zult, Exxie exxie zult zult zult, Exxie exxie zult zult zult, EXxie zult zult zult!
[06:11:01] * Darke gags sbx, just before he idles for a bit.
[06:11:39] * sbx swallows the gag. "Uh oh."
[06:11:44] * sbx sits peacefully for a while.
[06:28:06] * Darke checks back in to make sure sbx is silent.
[06:39:13] * sbx tries to get Japanese fonts working in Opera.
[06:48:13] * sbx succeeds by upgrading.
[06:49:30] * Darke snickers. One way or another you got it to work. *grin*
[06:49:57] <sbx> *evil grin*
[06:50:25] <sbx> seems to have been an opera or qt or staticly linkedness problem... since mozilla displayed japanese characters "out of the box"
[06:50:34] <Darke> "Not going to work? Then I shall make you obsolete! Muhahahah!"
[06:50:41] * Darke noddles.
[06:50:48] * sbx noddles.
[06:51:00] <sbx> Opera 6TP2 -> Opera 6.02
[06:51:49] <sbx> and at this very moment it is showing an ad banner with evil geniuses (for thinkgeek) :)
[06:57:02] <Darke> Appropriate. *grin*
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[07:04:03] <sbx> hi Kirben
[07:04:09] <Kirben> Hi
[07:04:20] <Darke> Hi.
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[07:38:13] <Kirben> Compile error after latest 1.1.0cvs commit:
[07:38:14] <Kirben> g++ -O2 -Wno-long-long -mms-bitfields -DNEED_SNPRINTF_ONLY -DHAVE_EXT_HASH_MAP -DHAVE_EXT_HASH_SET -DHAVE_SSTREAM -finline-limit-1000 -DVERSION=\"1.1.0cvs\" -DEXULT_DATADIR=\"data\" -DDEBUG -DSIZEOF_SHORT=2 -DSIZEOF_INT=4 -I./imagewin -I./shapes -I./files -I./files/zip -I./gumps -I./objs -I./tools -I. -I./audio -I./conf -I./pathfinder -I./headers -I./usecode -I./usecode/ucxt/include -I./usecode/compiler -I./data -I./server -I./sdl/include -D
[07:38:14] <Kirben> actions.cc: In member function `virtual int
[07:38:14] <Kirben> Pickup_actor_action::handle_event(Actor*)':
[07:38:15] <Kirben> actions.cc:854: `to_sit_frame' is not a member of type `Actor'
[07:38:17] <Kirben> c:\mingw\bin\make.exe: *** [actions.o] Error 1
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[07:40:18] <EsBee-Eks> The telephone cord fell out of the modem.
[07:40:25] <-- sbx has left IRC (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: EsBee-Eks!~sbx@209.12.76.124)))
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[07:44:59] <Darke> *blink* Different.
[07:45:42] * sbx pulled it out when he was jiggling his speaker cable so the sound would not be distorted.
[07:56:07] <-- EazyCheze has left IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[08:10:42] <sbx> ooh
[08:10:54] <sbx> that advertisement in opera is for UserFriendly.org not thinkgeek
[08:11:04] * sbx shrugs. It's all the same to him.
[09:49:38] <sbx> hey
[09:49:42] <sbx> what browsers do you use?
[09:49:47] <sbx> anyone of you
[09:50:11] <Darke> konqueror, mozilla, links, lynx. I think that's all. *grin*
[09:50:27] <sbx> what do you think exult forum looks better in?
[09:52:08] <Darke> Konqueror.
[09:54:50] <sbx> wow it loads so many other programs :)
[09:55:37] <sbx> but I think it looks pretty good too
[09:56:51] <Darke> Konqueror does? I've not noticed, but then again I use kde, so I probably wouldn't. *grin*
[10:24:29] <sbx> hmm... Google Uaebu, Google Imaaji, Google Guruupu, Google Jiirekutori
[10:25:41] * sbx hugs his Japanese fonts.
[10:25:59] * sbx hugs his upgraded Opera too.
[10:27:20] * Darke giggles.
[10:30:54] * Darke yawns. Sleep time. Night!
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[10:31:15] * sbx also likes sleep.
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[15:15:24] <wjp> hi
[15:15:31] <Colourless> hi
[15:16:49] <wjp> that audio hanging note bug sounds weird
[15:16:58] <wjp> wasn't that fixed ages ago?
[15:17:19] <Colourless> it should be fixed
[15:17:59] <Colourless> in fact with the current code, there really shouldn't be a problem
[15:18:15] <Colourless> but i thought that last time too :-)
[15:18:23] <wjp> :-)
[15:43:21] <wjp> another remake... Ultima 8 in NWN this time
[15:43:42] <Colourless> yep, Exile it i'm not mistaken
[15:43:47] * wjp nods
[15:44:31] * Colourless wonders wtf Exile has to do with U8
[15:45:09] * Colourless has a feeling that U8 Exile will have little to do with U8 Pagan
[15:45:34] <wjp> do you have a url for it?
[15:46:07] <Colourless> I should be able to find one
[15:46:10] <Colourless> just a minute
[15:51:53] <Colourless> can't find one
[15:52:20] <wjp> I have the forum url, but not a homepage
[15:54:29] <Colourless> i don't even remember where i saw it mentioned
[15:54:56] <wjp> I just saw it on the ultima 1 remake forum
[15:55:51] <Colourless> ah, saw it on rgcud
[15:56:12] <Colourless> all i've got is http://u8forums.netfirms.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi which doesn't work
[15:57:00] <wjp> http://pub18.ezboard.com/bultimaviiiexilediscussion
[15:59:43] * Colourless notes that the project is likely to be ruled by constant bickering
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[16:44:23] <wjp> grr... forgot to properly reset my X configuration last night...
[16:44:24] <wjp> brb
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[16:48:19] <Colourless> wb
[16:48:30] <wjp> thx
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[16:50:07] <wjp> hi
[16:50:50] <Colourless> hi
[16:52:30] <Fingolfin> hiya
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[20:38:36] <wjp> morning
[20:38:44] * Darke bows. Morning.
[20:39:08] <Colourless> morning
[21:54:34] <wjp> Colourless: hm, there's apparently a face-stats problem when using serpent bond
[21:55:43] <wjp> "when you cast Serpent Bond, the status bar shows the avatar as being a blonde guy, even if he is dark hair type."
[21:55:48] <wjp> (from Artaxerxes on the forum)
[21:56:00] <wjp> can I assign the bug to you?
[21:56:22] <Colourless> yeah, assign it to me
[21:57:13] * wjp seems to be on a bug-reporting spree the last couple of days :-)
[21:57:37] <wjp> (although I'm cheating somewhat by submitting bugs reported by Artaxerxes :-) )
[22:07:41] * wjp is reading Darke's essay
[22:07:55] <wjp> or e-mail, whatever you prefer to call it :-)
[22:08:07] <Darke> 'Verbosity'? *grin*
[22:08:29] <wjp> hm, I don't really want to see "Ultima 8 - 2.12 - English" in the main menu, I think
[22:08:54] <wjp> just "ultima 8" would do nicely, with the exact version somewhere in a corner of the game menu
[22:08:59] <wjp> IMHO, anyway
[22:09:02] <Darke> Thus the 'banner' suggestion.
[22:09:25] <wjp> well, a 'banner' doesn't exclude having version info on it :-)
[22:09:32] <Darke> It'd allow us to have a big 'ULTIMA 8' logo and have the version/language hidden away in a corner.
[22:09:35] * Darke grins.
[22:11:51] <Darke> The problem is having three or four 'Ultima 8' entries in the main menu without any quick way of identifying which is which, would cause problems with us devs when testing a problem that occurs in only one of them. *grin* Since in theory with this method you could have all four the 2.10 versions of u8, along with the three 2.12, and the single 2.13 version installed at the same time. *grin*
[22:12:24] <wjp> I can see why we would want that, but.. umm.. overkill? :-)
[22:12:38] <Darke> Of course, such a structure would require us to have a similar one with savegames. *grin*
[22:12:45] <Darke> Perhaps. *grin*
[22:15:06] <Darke> It's one of those "Well... it _looks_ simple to implement it" features, that would be a distinct benefit if we did implement it, just saving us time. *grin* Because you can bet that someone, somewhere is going to turn up a bug in whatever version they use, that we can't replicate in the 'default' version we use. *grin*
[22:17:31] <wjp> how about showing a banner for the game, and adding version info if the same banner is used multiple times?
[22:17:52] <Darke> That's probably the best idea.
[22:18:01] <Colourless> that is 'far' too logical :-)
[22:18:20] <wjp> what is?
[22:19:43] <Darke> I prefer the idea of a X*Y banner with a small, contrasting 'version number' in one corner and a 'language' in another, as part of the image, myself.
[22:20:04] <wjp> if it's not too distracting that would work
[22:20:20] <wjp> but the banners would have to be pretty big then :-)
[22:20:34] <wjp> also, what about customized games? (ie. games with hacked up data files)
[22:21:04] <Darke> *nod* It also gives us an easy way for people to answer "So what _version_ are you using then?" *grin*
[22:21:10] <Colourless> put something like unknown version
[22:21:13] <wjp> wrt. the directory structure and stuff
[22:21:27] <wjp> and checksums, for that matter
[22:21:54] <Colourless> we should be able to at least determine what game someone is attempting to play
[22:22:02] <Darke> I considered doing it the same way we're handling a different language, add a 'patch' directory instead of a language one.
[22:22:12] <Colourless> there should be a set of reasonable defaults for each game if the version can not be determined
[22:22:21] <Darke> Checksums are only used when we originally convert from 'u8' to 'pentagram independant' format.
[22:22:53] <wjp> yes... but that would mean we don't support modified data files
[22:23:04] <wjp> (modified original data files)
[22:23:21] <Colourless> bring up a warning message box
[22:23:23] <Darke> IMO, we probably don't want to support 'hacked up' U8 games, since there's no way to verify if our tools will actually work. Are there actually any modified versions out there?
[22:24:39] <Darke> I can't think of any u8 'fan patches' nor fan patches for TGWDS.
[22:24:59] <Colourless> IMO checksums should only be used to determine if the game is a genuine unmodified version. they should not be used to lock out the user from the converting.
[22:25:28] <Colourless> the converting should be done anyway of the version can not be verified, but the user should be told that the version is not recognised
[22:25:35] <wjp> what exactly should we do with different versions?
[22:25:51] <wjp> should we do pre-patch/post-patch jumping, for instance?
[22:26:36] <Colourless> i still think that should be an end users option, but perhaps just changing the defaults for that
[22:26:47] <Darke> It depends if the jumping mods were made in the datafiles or in the .exe, if the former, then we've got no real option, the latter, then we've got the option.
[22:27:00] <Colourless> it's in the exe
[22:27:17] <Darke> Cool. I wasn't sure about the moving platforms and such.
[22:27:27] <wjp> moving platforms?
[22:27:32] <Colourless> the datafiles post patch are as if the jumping was done pre-patch
[22:27:35] <wjp> oh, right, they changed some of that in the patch too
[22:27:49] <Colourless> i think moving plats may have been usecode controlled
[22:28:10] <wjp> yeah, most likely with one of those timer events
[22:28:27] <wjp> usecode is powerful enough to handle it, so I guess they would've gone that route
[22:28:29] <Colourless> can't tell though since 1) i've never seen them and 2) don't have a useful pre-patch version
[22:29:25] <Colourless> and 3) i don't want to play through the game till i get to one
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[22:39:57] <DominatoR^^^HC> hi to all
[22:40:03] <wjp> hi
[22:40:33] <Darke> Hi.
[22:41:01] <Colourless> hi
[22:41:10] <DominatoR^^^HC> ^^
[22:41:16] <wjp> *sigh*... I should really try to get that shape converter working sometime soon
[22:41:52] <wjp> the audio decompressor was working perfectly, right?
[22:42:06] <Colourless> yep
[22:45:56] <Colourless> of course I did the sound decompressor the 'cheats' way. i didn't exactly reverse engineer the file format :-)
[22:46:26] <wjp> shouldn't be overly hard to do, probably
[22:46:38] <wjp> from what we figured out it's some kind of predictor based thing
[22:46:56] <wjp> probably with some kind of correction to get it lossless
[22:47:14] * wjp wonders how much time it would cost to really reverse engineer it
[22:47:16] <Colourless> well, I know it's 2 pass, with look up tables
[22:48:47] <Colourless> the 2 passes are rather simple, but the 2nd pass has some rather complex maths going on
[22:48:57] <Colourless> (simple as in small amount of code)
[22:49:28] <Colourless> it also seems to be a tad recursive
[22:55:36] <Colourless> time for me to go
[22:55:47] <wjp> night
[22:55:54] <DominatoR^^^HC> bye
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[23:00:02] <wjp> hm, if it's two passes, the first of which is the simplest, I would assume the first is the basic predictor
[23:00:32] <wjp> and then the second would compress/encode the difference of the predicted wave and the real one somehow
[23:07:43] <wjp> I should probably get some sleep or something like that
[23:07:46] <wjp> I think
[23:07:50] <wjp> :-)
[23:08:02] <wjp> g'night
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[23:08:44] <DominatoR^^^HC> I'll go, too... bye
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