#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 5 Jun 2006 (GMT)

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[08:11:15] <weedar> Morning everyone
[08:19:00] <Baastuul> Good morning!
[08:19:26] <Baastuul> Did you see in the logs that Servus said something to you in regards to the Ultima 7 Online project?
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[08:37:16] <weedar> Baastuul: no I did not, could you paste it if possible?
[08:42:06] <weedar> or servus, could you repeat what you said? :)
[08:45:50] <Baastuul> You can check the channel logs
[08:45:55] <Baastuul> They are all posted online
[08:46:02] <Baastuul> I don't have it on my screen anymore
[08:46:11] <Baastuul> I will find the link, hold on
[08:46:42] <weedar> thanks :)
[08:47:39] <Baastuul> If you want to add it to your bookmarks, this is the archive of all the logs. They're updated continuously:
[08:47:40] <Baastuul> http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php?log=toc
[08:47:57] <Baastuul> He said this:
[08:47:58] <Baastuul> [20:24:46] <servus> weedar: Asking specific questions about how specific processes work would almost assuredly get you a more useful answer; I'm not aware of any wide overview of the source code. I've a full Doxygen of recent source with call graphs, inheritance graphs, and stuff. You can make your own and study it, or I can link mine when I get back. Bye :)
[08:48:33] <Baastuul> If you ever lose the link to the logs, go to the Exult main page, then to "About Us", then to "the logs" at the bottom
[08:48:35] <weedar> brilliant, thanks for the link
[08:48:39] <Baastuul> Yup
[08:48:40] <Baastuul> np
[08:53:41] <weedar> are you a programmer as well Baastuul?
[08:55:29] <Baastuul> Nah
[08:55:33] <Baastuul> I just know HTML
[08:55:36] <Baastuul> But that doesn't really count. :)
[08:55:57] <weedar> Sure it does, you can be responsible for porting Exult to javascript
[08:55:58] <Baastuul> I've been doing HTML since I was 11 (I'm 19 now), but I know very little of anything else.
[08:56:25] <Baastuul> I don't know Javascript
[08:56:27] <weedar> So do you study web-design or something different entirely?
[08:56:28] <Baastuul> I just know HTML ;p
[08:56:41] <Baastuul> I am an English major
[08:57:00] <weedar> that explains your eloquentiness
[08:57:05] <Baastuul> I used to think I'd become a web designer or a programmer or something to that effect, and then I realized I sucked at math and most programming languages.
[08:57:38] <Baastuul> Eloquentiness dun puts no food on der table, I tell you whut.
[08:57:54] <weedar> Me no belive you, that is the unpossible!
[08:58:07] <Baastuul> RORorahruhghhhh!
[08:58:13] * weedar hides
[08:58:26] <Baastuul> When I started college, I had aspirations of becoming a high school English or history teacher.
[08:58:35] <Baastuul> And then I decided that I don't want to be trapped in academic hell for another forty years.
[08:58:43] <weedar> so what is your current goal?
[08:58:58] <Baastuul> So I switched my concentration from language arts and education to writing, so that'll teach me some more "practical" skills.
[08:59:14] <Baastuul> Oh, and I'm minoring in something called Medieval and Early Modern Studies, which basically is not very useful at all.
[08:59:31] <Baastuul> But I had three classes during my first semester which went towards fulfilling that minor, so I figured, eh, why not?
[08:59:46] <Baastuul> So a couple of months ago I officially declared my major and minor and all that. Exciting stuff. :O
[09:00:10] <weedar> Wohoo! :)
[09:00:15] <Baastuul> Yep!
[09:00:15] <Baastuul> Are you in college?
[09:01:37] <weedar> Well I just finished my Bachelor' degree in Applied Information-Technology, my last exam was a few weeks ago
[09:02:23] <Baastuul> :O
[09:02:26] <Baastuul> Cool!
[09:02:34] <weedar> but it's not really college, or university...it's kinda hard to explain, the educational system here in norway is a bit different. You could say I took the degree at a near-univeristy institution
[09:02:35] <Baastuul> Have a good graduation and all that?
[09:02:41] <Baastuul> Ahhh
[09:02:47] <weedar> Yeah, so no hat-throwing
[09:02:56] <weedar> I did get viciously drunk though, I guess that counts?
[09:02:57] <Baastuul> Are you by chance from Trondheim?
[09:03:01] <Baastuul> I suppose so! :o
[09:03:01] <weedar> yes I am
[09:03:04] <Baastuul> :O
[09:03:10] <weedar> now guess my weight
[09:03:18] <Baastuul> I know somebody on another network who studies at Trondheim!
[09:03:37] <Baastuul> Well, "in" Trondheim, that is.
[09:03:43] <Baastuul> But now he is home for the holidays in FREI.
[09:04:03] <weedar> if that person studies something computer-related I guess it's at NTNU
[09:04:03] <weedar> Today
[09:04:03] <weedar> Jun 2006
[09:04:03] <weedar> 5 Jun 2006
[09:04:03] <weedar> 4 Jun 2006
[09:04:03] <weedar> 3 Jun 2006
[09:04:05] <weedar> 2 Jun 2006
[09:04:07] <weedar> 1 Jun 2006
[09:04:09] <weedar> May 2006
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[09:04:27] <weedar> whoops
[09:04:31] <Baastuul> :o
[09:04:50] <weedar> I have no idea why that happened, I can't remember every copying all those dates into my clipboard.
[09:05:00] <Baastuul> You are a thief! A thief of dates!
[09:05:23] <weedar> Why yes, yes I am, thanks for noticing
[09:05:41] <Baastuul> No prob.
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[09:07:31] <weedar> So you'll become a writer after you're done with your studies?
[09:08:15] <Baastuul> Or an editor or something to that effect.
[09:08:25] <Baastuul> I submitted a short story for publication two weeks ago.
[09:08:28] <Baastuul> I await a rejection letter!
[09:10:42] <weedar> Ah, you have the same attitude as I have towards job applications :)
[09:11:46] <Baastuul> hehehe
[09:12:01] <Baastuul> Do you plan on working in the Trondheim area?
[09:14:57] <weedar> I really would prefer being able to work here, although I wouldn't mind a job where I'd have to travel. It's just that all of my friends are here, my family, my gf and her friends and family too
[09:15:30] <weedar> Also, we just bought an apartment, we'd have to live here a few years anyway so we get to pay down some of the actually loan and not just the interest, which we do currently
[09:15:42] <Baastuul> Ahh
[09:15:45] <weedar> s/actual/actually
[09:16:01] <Baastuul> If you were given the choice of anywhere to work, where would you choose?
[09:16:21] <weedar> you mean company or city?
[09:17:38] <Baastuul> I guess both! :o
[09:18:26] <weedar> Hm...good question. I guess my dream-job would involve me either working in a secluded basement of a huge company where I never got blamed for doing anything wrong, or working "at home" via wireless+laptop+beach
[09:19:06] <weedar> I have trouble seeing myself living any place other than Trondheim, I don't really need to LIVE anywhere else as long as I can visit while I'm on vacation =)
[09:19:25] <Baastuul> hehehe
[09:19:32] <Baastuul> Would you ever want to live outside of Norway?
[09:19:42] <weedar> oh, on second thought I'd love to live in the US for a few years so I could follow the remaining Grateful Dead members around
[09:19:48] <weedar> before they all die of old age
[09:20:48] <Baastuul> haha
[09:22:11] <weedar> Why would I want to live outside of Norway? It's been voted the best country to live in for two years in a row by the UN :) And it's one of the few European countries not in the EU, which is a good thing
[09:22:48] <weedar> I mean, it's not a perfect country, for example it's not warm enough for my tastes. But most alternatives have more downsides than living here so.. :/
[09:23:15] <Baastuul> I live in glorious Washington!
[09:23:21] <Baastuul> The state, not that crime-riddled D.C. thing.
[09:25:18] <weedar> Ever feel like moving to Canada?
[09:25:39] <Baastuul> Nah.
[09:25:49] <Baastuul> Although I just watched a Canadian movie.
[09:25:50] <Baastuul> Due South
[09:26:03] <Baastuul> The made-for-TV movie that "spawned" the series.
[09:26:24] <weedar> never seen the series
[09:26:32] <weedar> sorry
[09:26:39] <Baastuul> I haven't seen it before either.
[09:26:45] <Baastuul> Tonight was the first time I saw the movie.
[09:26:47] <Baastuul> It was pretty good.
[09:26:53] <Baastuul> For a FILTHY CANADIAN PRODUCTION.
[09:27:03] <weedar> yeah those darn commies
[09:27:12] <weedar> no wait, it's "terrorist" now, right?
[09:27:21] <Baastuul> Just the fools in Toronto
[09:27:26] * weedar updates his foreign-derogatory-remark-list
[09:27:58] <weedar> what about Quebec?
[09:28:04] <Baastuul> Only if I spoke French
[09:28:19] <Baastuul> Er, that is, I would only move there if I spoke French.
[09:28:33] <weedar> haha
[09:30:33] <Baastuul> Whaaaaaaaaaaoooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhooooaaaaaaaaaaa.
[09:31:26] <Baastuul> Hva kallar duuuuu smaaaaaarta perrrrrsoonnerrrr iiii sverriiiige?
[09:31:29] <Baastuul> tuuuuuuurister
[09:31:33] <weedar> :D
[09:31:40] * Baastuul flails his arms around.
[09:31:52] <weedar> are you channeling a norwegian person or something?
[09:32:08] <Baastuul> Yap!
[09:32:22] <Baastuul> I cast Seance
[09:32:25] <weedar> :D
[09:32:30] <Baastuul> And struck up conversation with a real joker of a Norwegian
[09:32:47] <weedar> jokes about sweden, classic
[09:33:04] <weedar> I guess you have similar jokes about Canada, and the rest of the world has similar jokes about France
[09:34:52] <Baastuul> The only Canada joke that I have off hand is the one-liner about how Canada is America's hat and how all Canadians are the lice infesting America's hair or something like that.
[09:35:13] <Baastuul> Actually, the lice part I sort of made up on my own, but I'm sure others have thought it.
[09:35:20] <weedar> hehe
[09:35:42] <Baastuul> And the French jokes are mainly related to war and the military
[09:35:52] <Baastuul> Like "Going to war without the French is like going deer hunting without an accordion."
[09:35:55] <weedar> don't forget personal hygiene!
[09:37:20] * Baastuul listens to some techno and dances around like a hedonist at a trendy uptown Berlin night club
[09:37:46] <weedar> from the irc-logs someone here listens to Kraftwerk
[09:38:00] <Baastuul> I have only heard one or two Kraftwerk songs, I think.
[09:38:31] <weedar> Autobahn and Pocket Calculator
[09:38:49] <weedar> they are their most famous songs I guess
[09:39:09] <Baastuul> I have not heard them. :(
[09:40:03] <weedar> thy shame is great
[09:40:39] <Baastuul> :(~!
[09:41:30] <Baastuul> Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedaaaaarrrrrrrr
[09:41:33] <Baastuul> Warrior of legend.
[09:42:27] <weedar> Student of infamy, slacker of yore and protagnist of naught
[09:42:33] <weedar> *protagonist
[09:42:50] <Baastuul> :(
[09:42:51] * Baastuul weeps in thy bosom.
[09:43:53] * weedar conjures tissue with which to blow thine nose
[09:44:22] <Baastuul> I hate to be a grammar nazi, but "thine" is used only before nouns which begin with vowels. :O
[09:44:32] * Baastuul wags a finger at you like a grandmother!
[09:44:36] <weedar> verily it contains soothing ointments to prevent redness of thy skin
[09:44:42] <Baastuul> :o
[09:44:46] <Baastuul> Ointments~
[09:44:46] <Baastuul> I like that word
[09:44:49] <Baastuul> It is beautiful
[09:44:50] <Baastuul> Like oink
[09:44:56] <weedar> I appreciate all corrections of my grammar, it means I'm learning something new :)
[09:45:06] <Baastuul> o(^________^)o same
[09:45:30] <Sevalecan> Bastuhl!
[09:45:38] * weedar hides
[09:45:40] <Baastuul> HAIL TO THEE, FAIR ADVENTURER.
[09:46:03] * weedar casts telekinesis on Baastuul's caps-lock button
[09:46:08] <Baastuul> :o
[09:46:16] <Baastuul> IT WAS YOU ALL ALONG!
[09:46:52] * Sevalecan casts telekinesis on weedar's computer
[09:46:55] <weedar> that depends on what you mean by "was"
[09:47:21] <Baastuul> I don't know. :(
[09:47:24] <Baastuul> I am very sleepy.
[09:47:24] <weedar> Hah, for your information I'm not using my own computer at the moment so "hah!" Sevalecan!
[09:47:28] <Baastuul> I am falling asleep here.
[09:47:43] <Baastuul> It is 2:47 AM in these fine Washingtonian lands.
[09:47:44] <Sevalecan> weedar: Hah, for your information, I AM using your computer at the moment
[09:47:47] <weedar> I forget you're living in the wrong timezone
[09:47:51] <Sevalecan> so "hah!", weedar!
[09:47:51] <Baastuul> Which is pretty early for me lately, it seems, but I must depart.
[09:47:53] <Baastuul> Good night!
[09:47:57] <weedar> Sevalecan: Oh... :/
[09:47:58] <Sevalecan> gnight
[09:48:13] <weedar> Good night Baastuul
[09:49:09] <weedar> and once again silence rules the small channel of #exult, or at least for the time being...
[09:49:30] * Sevalecan throws a broadsword at weedar
[09:50:03] * weedar is sliced in two
[09:50:25] * weedar and his other half throws a broadsword each at Sevalecan
[09:50:31] <Sevalecan> D:
[09:51:10] * Sevalecan 's arms are sliced off
[09:52:05] <weedar> So I guess I/we win then?
[09:52:12] <Sevalecan> not yet!
[09:52:17] * Sevalecan casts regenerate
[09:52:25] <weedar> darn!
[09:53:04] * Sevalecan channels all his remaining mana into a fireball and throws it at weedar
[09:53:12] <weedar> nooooooo.....
[09:53:29] <-- weedar has left #exult ("You haven't seen the last of meeee")
[09:53:35] <Sevalecan> !!!!!
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[09:54:12] <Sevalecan> wb
[09:54:16] <wjp> I'm rather impressed you could cast regenerate without arms :-)
[09:54:20] <weedar> thanks :)
[09:54:26] <Sevalecan> who needs arms to shout? ;)
[09:55:02] <weedar> what about the reagents?
[09:55:31] <Sevalecan> does that spell require reagents? :o
[09:55:57] <Sevalecan> i err
[09:56:00] <Sevalecan> could always use my feet?
[09:56:11] <weedar> wow, you're limber
[09:59:52] <Sevalecan> thank you
[09:59:55] <Sevalecan> *blush*
[10:04:31] <weedar> Hm, any suggestions as to why when make'ing exult (in linux/ubuntu) it complains about not finding hash_map ?
[10:07:28] <Darke2> It's a gcc thing. What version of exult are you trying to compile, and what version of gcc are you using?
[10:08:03] <weedar> cvs from yesterday, gcc is 4.0.3
[10:08:27] * Darke2 has a sneeeaky suspicion he knows what the problem is then. Let me check the code. *grin*
[10:08:50] <weedar> okie dokie :)
[10:11:23] <Darke2> Top of hash_utils.h has the various ways of using hash_map in C++. In theory it should be compiling it using the __gnu_cxx namespace, since you're using GCC>=3.
[10:11:56] <weedar> What do you suggest I do Darke2?
[10:16:05] <Darke2> Check the ./configure output, it should at least give a 'yes' to one of the "checking for *hash_map presence|usability" checks.
[10:17:29] <weedar> it gives yes for the ext/hash_map
[10:17:56] <Darke2> For both presence and usability?
[10:18:06] <Darke2> (If it does, it 'should' work. O.o)
[10:19:47] <weedar> then it should work :) It says yes to both
[10:21:06] <Darke2> Maybe try an `./autogen.sh`, followed by `make clean; make`? I dunno, I don't currently have a recent copy of exult on my system at the moment (the current one refers to the old sf.net cvs servers, rather then the newer ones they put in, like, months ago *grin*), so I'm sorta stabbing in the dark.
[10:21:18] <SB-X> This was the same problem on OSX, wasn't it?
[10:24:30] <wjp> weedar: what's the exact error you're seeing?
[10:25:22] <weedar> wjp: I'm currently doing a new "make" after doing a autogen.sh configure and make clean
[10:26:39] <weedar> now the hash_map erorr disappeared :) (and was replaced by a complaint about missing yacc)
[10:31:55] <weedar> the INSTALL file should probably tell it's users that Bison (or equivalent) is needed
[10:32:54] <wjp> only when you're building from cvs
[10:33:23] <wjp> I think the release tarballs include the files generated by flex/bison
[10:33:32] <weedar> ok
[10:35:38] <weedar> now then, missing reference to yylex and yyin - http://pastebin.com/759395
[10:41:29] <weedar> Any ideas why I would get that error?
[10:43:10] <wjp> hm, which flex/bison versions?
[10:43:46] <weedar> flex 2.5.31 and bison 2.1 =)
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[10:59:50] <wjp> I wonder why it's referring to 'y.tab.c'
[11:00:32] <wjp> could it be using yacc instead of bison?
[11:04:54] <wjp> hm, or maybe not
[11:05:14] <wjp> all symbols it's referring to should be defined in uclex.cc
[11:05:35] <wjp> does it look like that file was generated correctly?
[11:08:35] <weedar> In that case, check http://pastebin.com/759433 again - I included a few more preceding lines
[11:08:42] <weedar> seems I got a warning about uclex.cc
[11:11:15] <weedar> now that's odd, uclex.cc contains only the following: main() { return 0; }
[11:12:33] <SB-X> I know a little late with this link, it wasn't OSX I'd seen the hash_map error reported on after all. http://exult.sourceforge.net/forum/read.php?f=1&i=28680&t=28680
[11:13:07] <SB-X> different reason for the error too :)
[11:15:12] <wjp> weedar: that's kind of strange
[11:15:33] <weedar> =)
[11:15:35] <wjp> if you remove uclex.cc and run make again, which command does it use to generate it?
[11:19:34] <weedar> when removing uclex.cc I don't get that error, but rather the following: http://pastebin.com/759445
[11:19:58] <weedar> For someone new to the code this is fairly frustrating :)
[11:20:10] <wjp> did you install flex after running configure for the first time?
[11:20:49] <weedar> I did a new autogen.sh configure make clean make after installing flex and bison
[11:21:07] <wjp> make clean doesn't remove files generated by flex and bison
[11:21:45] <wjp> you'll need a 'make maintainer-clean' for that
[11:22:03] <wjp> the reason is that the files generated by flex and bison are contained in release tarballs are therefore shouldn't be removed by default
[11:22:12] <weedar> ah. Thanks. I should have waited for that tidbit before I deleted the exult directory and unpacked the cvs again :P
[11:23:04] * wjp looks for reference on that mt32 problem
[11:23:48] <wjp> we should probably update those files
[11:26:25] <wjp> for now just try not building the mt32 code
[11:26:56] <weedar> I have to run make with a parameter?
[11:27:06] <wjp> hm, strange; it should be disabled by default
[11:27:18] <SB-X> wouldnt it be a configure parameter?
[11:27:18] <wjp> did you pass --enable-mt32emu to configure?
[11:27:32] <weedar> nope
[11:27:41] <weedar> I ran plain-vanilla versions of everything
[11:29:34] <wjp> ok, manual fix for now: in audio/midi_drivers/Makefile.am, remove 'mt32emu' from the 'SUBDIRS =' line
[11:30:49] <wjp> and in the main Makefile.am remove the 'audio/midi_drivers/mt32emu/libmt32emu.la' line from 'EXULTLIBS ='
[11:32:30] <wjp> I'll have to fix the build system... it always tries to build the mt32 emulator, even if it isn't used
[11:36:23] <SB-X> if a needed feature (one which doesnt have a configure switch) is missing, should a makefile be created?
[11:39:46] <weedar> Thanks wjp, that worked!
[11:39:54] <SB-X> :)
[11:40:21] <weedar> Now for the truly bizarre error: Makefile.am:127: variable `KMID_LIBS' not defined
[11:40:42] <weedar> I got that error immediately after removing that line in the main Makefile.am - by running make again it worked
[11:41:37] <weedar> Now I might be going out on a limb here, but shouldn't make result in the same errors (or lack of) each time it's run as long as nothing has changed between each time you run the command?
[11:41:57] <SB-X> yes
[11:42:35] <wjp> did it run automake automatically again in between?
[11:44:17] <weedar> not that I can see, but see for yourself: here is the output of the two make runs (second one is cut-short by me) - http://pastebin.com/759489
[11:47:36] <weedar> Isn't it weird that the first line of output is different between each make?
[11:48:36] <wjp> I guess the first run automake did something even though it failed
[11:48:56] <wjp> and that 'something' caused config.status to be re-run the next run
[11:50:55] <weedar> Well, as I said it did finally compile okay, but when double-clicking the Avatar (in BG, from new game) it dies - Fatal signal: Segmentation Fault (SDL Parachute Deployed)
[11:51:40] <SB-X> can you double-click anything else? does pressing Z crash it? is sound enabled?
[11:55:44] <weedar> double-clicking anything else seems to work ok, z works ok, sound is disabled (tried first with sound enabled)
[11:56:07] <weedar> pressing "i" to bring up inventory also crashes the game, as does clicking the status icon of the avatar
[11:56:41] <weedar> I am not using paperdolls
[11:58:43] <wjp> any warnings/errors about missing files in the terminal?
[11:59:57] <weedar> not missing files, but this is surely the culprit: Shape num out of range: 123
[12:03:33] <SB-X> thats more like a warning
[12:03:52] <weedar> in that case no, there are no warnings or errors, except it not finding SI
[12:03:58] <SB-X> oops, i was mixing up function of the z and i keys
[12:04:16] <weedar> :)
[12:04:38] <SB-X> I meant to ask if pressing "i" crashed it. (the same function as double-clicking the Avatar)
[12:04:55] <SB-X> did you try it with paperdolls?
[12:04:58] <SB-X> if you have SI
[12:05:15] <weedar> I don't have SI installed here
[12:05:50] <SB-X> I don't have Exult installed or I'd try it.
[12:07:19] <weedar> don't bother, I saw the problem was that paperdolls in bg was enabled in exult.cfg without SI being installed/available
[12:07:40] <wjp> that makes it crash?
[12:07:42] <weedar> Although I think Exult shouldn't crash, it should just complain about not finding the paperdolls-"info" and not use paperdols
[12:07:46] <weedar> wjp: yup
[12:08:09] <weedar> after changing bg_paperdolls to "no" it doesn't crash
[12:21:04] <SB-X> that's what it's supposed to do
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[12:40:48] <weedar> You mean what I said, right SB-X?
[12:54:44] <SB-X> that it shouldn't crash, yes
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[13:01:55] <SB-X> ho hum
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