#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 5 Sep 2004 (GMT)

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[00:30:12] --- LordN_Away is now known as Lord_Nightmare
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[01:19:23] <sbx|afk> hi
[01:19:27] --- sbx|afk is now known as sbx
[01:19:31] <Baastuul> Hai.
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[04:15:39] <Sheng_Gradilla> :)
[04:16:45] <servus> STOP SMILING!
[04:16:53] <Sheng_Gradilla> why? :)
[04:22:19] * servus dies
[04:22:20] <servus> (that's why)
[04:25:25] <Sheng_Gradilla> :*
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[05:20:25] <sbx> :)
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[07:34:32] <servus> Is there active delopment on Exult?
[07:34:43] <servus> I'm still considering making a fork with 3D graphics :-)
[07:38:12] <DarkeZzz> Yes, there still is active development. And feel free. I'm sure a number of people would be interested in the result. Especially if you managed to port it so you can choose between the two.
[07:38:38] <servus> I haven't studied your code.
[07:38:42] <servus> I don't know how modular the graphics system is
[07:39:00] <servus> The bad part is that I'd have to do away with 100% of your graphics system, have to rewrite a lot of gump handlers, etc.
[07:40:28] <servus> Is it very modular, or is the graphics just pushed in everywhere?
[07:41:02] <DarkeZzz> I don't know. Have never really touched the graphis systems.
[07:42:20] <sbx> anyone use the Fallout[2] editor(s)?
[07:42:48] <servus> Hmm
[07:42:54] <servus> Who is responsible for the graphics? I may want to bug them.
[07:43:49] <sbx> Colourless?
[07:44:02] <servus> OK
[07:44:05] <servus> svn co.
[07:44:09] <servus> Err, cvs co
[07:44:11] <servus> *grin*
[07:44:50] <servus> I wonder if this is hard to compile in MSVC...
[07:45:08] <sbx> I am also very interested in your work.
[07:45:38] <servus> You guys have seen the crappy 3D version I made in Direct3D ages ago.
[07:45:42] <sbx> yeah
[07:45:48] <servus> Not sure how many people saw my Ultima 6 to Ultima 7 map converter.
[07:47:15] <sbx> don't remember
[07:52:44] <sbx> did you delete it?
[07:58:06] <sbx> AXE hex editor has a nice graphical mode
[07:58:44] <sbx> the help file shows it being used to display a map file of a videogame
[07:59:45] <servus> Dunno if I still have the converter.
[07:59:56] <servus> sbx, I use Adobe Photoshop as my graphical hex editor ;-)
[08:00:35] * servus checks out exult.
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[08:20:29] <sbx> hi Colourless
[08:21:14] <Colourless> hi
[08:23:12] <servus> Colourless, I'm going to bug you about Exult's graphics.
[08:24:29] <Colourless> how so
[08:25:25] <servus> Hmm. Having trouble logging into CVS
[08:25:39] <servus> Colourless, I'm considering finally getting around to *starting* a 3D Exult fork.
[08:28:06] <Colourless> hmm...
[08:28:22] <Colourless> an interesting idea...
[08:29:20] <sbx> we can finally see doors on the north side!
[08:30:33] <servus> I would probably just create textures for objects by drawing the object in 2D, determing where all the 3D faces are, and doing a reverse affine map, and put the respective textures on the sides you can enver see.
[08:31:03] <servus> So, I don't need to draw any 2D textures.
[08:31:06] * servus kicks CVS :-(
[08:31:10] <servus> I've never used it for *Nix :-)
[08:32:30] <servus> I think I'm running the cvs server, not the client. Argh.
[08:32:48] <Colourless> easier said than done... but not impossible
[08:32:59] <servus> What is? The graphics?
[08:32:59] <Colourless> for things like normal walls it would 'just'work
[08:33:07] <servus> It doesn't need to be perfect.
[08:33:17] <servus> It's just a hack, first off, and second, I'd probably not let people move the camera :-)
[08:33:45] <Colourless> anything that is more sprite like and doesn't have a regular shape, it will fall down
[08:34:27] <servus> I should have CVSROOT=:pserver:smatthews@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/exult right?
[08:34:41] <servus> Nah it'll work, you'll see, I've got it all planned out :-)
[08:34:45] <sbx> if you can't move the camera what's the point?
[08:35:04] <servus> sbx, The camera might be moveable, but even without, it will still be obviously 3D when you move around.
[08:35:11] <servus> Walls will change perspective appropriately.
[08:35:23] <servus> If it works as well as I hope, I will be able to make it 100% 3D though :-)
[08:35:56] <servus> Is my CVSROOT correct?
[08:36:43] <Colourless> i don't know
[08:36:53] <servus> cvs checkout: failed to create lock directory for `/cvsroot/exult/exult' (/cvsroot/exult/exult/#cvs.lock): Permission denied
[08:37:00] <servus> Is it trying to write into my system root? =-/
[08:38:02] <sbx> SourceForge has instructions
[08:41:20] * servus growls.
[08:46:02] <servus> Very annoying.
[08:52:28] <servus> Oh, grrr.
[08:52:35] <servus> It works with anonymous, but not my user name.
[08:52:44] <servus> Guess I'm not part of the project *Blushes*
[08:52:50] <servus> Forgot about that *grin*
[08:56:18] <servus> Colourless, how modular is the graphics system?
[08:56:20] <servus> Should I be scared?
[08:56:26] <Colourless> very scared
[08:56:35] <Colourless> that's why i'm planning on ripping the guts out of it
[08:56:37] <servus> A project like this would have to rewrite *everything* graphical, including a lot of the gump handlers.
[08:56:54] <servus> So, if you have graphical manipulation in the gump handlers, the terrain handlers, the sprite handlers...
[08:56:55] <servus> Eepers.
[08:57:08] <servus> Just getting a proper OpenGL context might be troublesome *grin*
[08:58:27] <sbx> doesn't Exult already have a GL renderer?
[08:58:33] <servus> It does?
[08:58:38] <Colourless> yes it does
[08:58:41] <servus> Ooh,
[08:58:44] <Colourless> as messed up as it is
[08:58:46] <servus> I'll have to look into that.
[08:58:48] <sbx> not saying you'd want to use it
[08:58:49] <servus> Is it at all workable?
[08:58:56] <servus> I'm still compiling :-)
[08:58:57] <Colourless> barely
[08:59:15] <Colourless> it's 'experimental'
[08:59:16] <servus> That'd be good though. It handles all types of graphics? (gumps,terrain,sprites,etc)?
[08:59:35] <Colourless> basically jeff experimenting, and me fixing up his errors when i saw any
[08:59:40] <servus> Jeff?
[09:00:19] <Colourless> Dr Code...
[09:00:23] <Colourless> our leader
[09:00:29] <servus> Oh, ok.
[09:00:30] <Colourless> the creator...
[09:00:46] <servus> Well I've already made a few 3D tests, so I know that the *data* is there, and that the concept is workable.
[09:01:01] <servus> I shouldn't have to create any extra game *content*.
[09:01:17] <servus> The sprites (characters,etc) are what I'd probably lock the camera somewhat for.
[09:01:44] <sbx> but maybe you can still allow the orientation to be rotated, before going full 3d
[09:01:47] <servus> Probably it'd need to be locked as much as Warcraft 3 is... But full rotation and changes to the isometric angle.
[09:01:57] <servus> Right @ sbx.
[09:02:05] <sbx> we can finally see doors on the north side!
[09:02:19] <servus> :-)
[09:02:35] <servus> I think I should be able to get enough of a texture.
[09:02:45] <servus> I'll have to pull out my old affine mapping books and study them. *ugh*
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[09:06:10] <Colourless> your reverse mapping of the texture for a wall or door will not be difficult
[09:06:33] <servus> Right, once I have the south and east sides of a block, I just reverse it
[09:06:43] <Colourless> yeah
[09:06:46] <servus> Getting the south and east (rectangular) textures should be only mildly difficult.
[09:07:11] <Colourless> could could just render using the shape as the texture
[09:07:22] <Colourless> applying it onto a bounding box
[09:07:59] <servus> Hmm.
[09:08:12] <servus> I might get some noticable shearing with that, but it'd save on loading times and texture memory.
[09:08:38] <Colourless> you'll get shearing anyway i think...
[09:08:45] <servus> I suppose so
[09:09:05] <servus> Since everything is isometric, I should be able to hack together something quick to get texture coordinates.
[09:09:19] <Colourless> i had an expereiment in pentagram 'old' where i tried doing something like that
[09:09:37] <Colourless> (rending using bounding boxes)
[09:09:55] <Colourless> for 'most things' it was working ok... bilinear filtering though caused issues
[09:10:22] <servus> Yes, you're right. I'll just use the shapes. Manually stripping out rectangular textures would give the same effect.
[09:10:28] <servus> Still compiling...
[09:10:39] <servus> I'll start it compiling on Windows too :-)
[09:10:40] <Colourless> was getting lines between shapes
[09:10:49] <servus> Probably didn't clamp right.
[09:11:00] <Colourless> can't....
[09:11:07] <servus> Can't compile on Windows?
[09:11:13] <servus> Is it some MinGW-only nonsense? :-)
[09:11:25] <Colourless> nothing can be done to fix filtering problems
[09:11:27] <servus> GL_CLAMP_TO_EDGE and move all your texture coordinates towards the center by a very little.
[09:11:37] <Colourless> you still get lines
[09:11:40] <servus> Just move all the coordinates in half a texel.
[09:11:45] <Colourless> that doesn't work
[09:11:54] <servus> I already made a textured 3D engine for U7, works fine.
[09:12:03] <Colourless> you can still see the grid pattern making up the world
[09:12:14] <servus> Move your texture coordinates towards the center.
[09:12:18] <Colourless> it's subtle, but you can still see it
[09:12:36] <servus> Are you on Nix or Windows?
[09:12:40] <Colourless> windows
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[09:12:47] <servus> Good video card?
[09:12:52] <Colourless> yep
[09:12:59] <servus> What card?
[09:13:08] <Colourless> Radeon 9700 pro
[09:13:11] <servus> Ah
[09:13:20] <servus> Want to see a demo that will kick your card's butt? :-)
[09:13:30] <Colourless> the problem is you can't filter between 2 shapes
[09:13:43] <servus> Oh, that.
[09:13:51] <servus> There are extensions to allow for that.
[09:14:05] <Colourless> and the tiling wasn't designed to filtering properly (odd that)
[09:14:33] <Colourless> looks perfect pointsampling... turn on bilinear and you get subtle lines
[09:15:35] <Colourless> exult gets the same problem between chunk boundries (since the chunks are all prerendered into 256x256 textures)
[09:15:41] <Colourless> but it's less obvious
[09:15:52] <Colourless> since exult's chunks actually tile fairly well
[09:15:59] <servus> There are workarounds
[09:16:12] <servus> With the proper extension, you can do proper filtering between different textures.
[09:16:59] <Colourless> i actually have a few ideas (since we do depth sort) of how to fix it
[09:17:06] <Colourless> haven't tried them though
[09:17:49] <Colourless> should be able to alpha blend them away IF you do things just right (make the edges overlap and slightly transparent)
[09:18:49] <servus> Well depth sort won't be an issue here.
[09:19:15] <servus> That's an interesting idea.
[09:19:33] <servus> My ideas for workarounds are different, but all these should work to some degree.
[09:25:29] <servus> Ugh, Exult is a .NET project =-/
[09:25:31] <servus> Oh well.
[09:25:41] <Colourless> um, no it isn't
[09:25:48] <Colourless> uh
[09:25:53] <Colourless> oh, VS.Net you mean
[09:25:57] <servus> Yes.
[09:26:35] <Colourless> VS 98 is just too 'irritating' to support
[09:27:03] <servus> I prefer MSVC++6 :-)
[09:27:06] <servus> I have them all though.
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[09:33:47] <servus> Still compiling. :-)
[09:40:12] <servus> Nice executable size @ 20M ;-)
[09:40:32] <servus> stripped it to 1.5MB, not too bad I guess :-p
[09:40:47] <Colourless> that's a lot of debugging info
[09:40:49] <servus> And... still fixing fatals in MSVC
[09:41:23] <servus> My version of MSVC.NET is unsupported.
[09:41:24] <servus> Mreh.
[09:41:45] <Colourless> 2003?
[09:41:49] <servus> Righto.
[09:42:02] <Colourless> don't have it...h aven't tested
[09:42:15] <Colourless> should 'just work' with the 2002 stuff
[09:42:47] <servus> std::issppace is not a member of 'std' is a recurring one.
[09:43:11] <servus> Plus, it balked in msvc_kludges.h, and told me to edit a file that did not exist, but I commented that #error out :-p
[09:43:29] <Colourless> msvc_kludges is what is used to fix all the problems
[09:43:54] <Colourless> i 'think' i may have a version that will work with 2003
[09:44:07] <servus> I'll just fix this.
[09:44:10] <servus> Just mentioning it is all :-)
[09:45:10] <Colourless> no... i don't have one for exult
[09:45:14] <Colourless> updated pentagrams
[09:45:33] <Colourless> which 'was' called msvc_include.h
[09:45:40] <Colourless> s/was/is/
[09:46:16] <Colourless> and i'm treating 2002 and 2003 the same
[09:46:22] <servus> Hmm, I don't even know what std::isspace is supposed to be :-)
[09:47:08] <Colourless> i'm guessing you are attempting to use MSVC6 kludges for 7
[09:47:14] <Colourless> on the line that says
[09:47:15] <Colourless> #elif (_MSC_VER == 1300)
[09:47:20] <servus> Oh, just isspace.
[09:47:24] <Colourless> in msvckludges.h make it say
[09:47:28] <Colourless> #elif (_MSC_VER == 1300) || (_MSC_VER == 1310)
[09:47:36] <servus> OK, I just commented out the #error *grni*
[09:51:14] <servus> I don't have exult_flx.h?
[09:51:16] <EsBee-Eks> On a MUD I used to play "grni" was an emote and typing it resulted in a message like "Servus tried to grin but forgot how to type." to everyone else in the room.
[09:51:48] <servus> EsBee-Eks, on my last MUD it was "%s grnis like an idiot that can't spell"
[09:52:20] <Colourless> exult_flx.h is auto generated by the build proces
[09:52:21] <Colourless> s
[09:52:53] <servus> Oh
[09:52:54] <EsBee-Eks> servus: Your MUD was meaner than mine.
[09:52:58] <Colourless> importing the project into msvc.net 2003 might have screwed things up.... maybe
[09:53:02] <servus> Well three tools failed because I have a space in my path.
[09:53:14] <servus> I'll have to move it to C:\games\exult or something, meh.
[09:53:25] <Colourless> should run expack 3 times
[09:53:36] <Colourless> i have exult in c:\uc\exult
[09:53:44] <EsBee-Eks> games is my directory too
[09:53:52] <Colourless> so wouldn't surprise me if things died because of a space
[09:54:06] <servus> I was in C:\Documents and Settings\Sam Matthews\My Documents\My Projects\Exult :-)
[09:54:53] <servus> OK! One more error... pow() has 7 overloads and no resolution can be found... Tsk tsk, you should cast :-) :-)
[09:55:00] <Colourless> uh
[09:55:01] <Colourless> pow
[09:55:08] <Colourless> blame... uh... someone else
[09:55:25] <Colourless> (was getting that problem myself)
[09:55:45] <servus> midi.
[09:55:58] <Colourless> as i said... uh... blame someone else *grin*
[09:56:09] <servus> Did you do MIDI? :-p
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[09:56:12] <Colourless> explictly use doubles...
[09:56:18] <Colourless> (i think)
[09:56:24] <servus> It was a pow of ONLY defines.
[09:56:39] <servus> Seems performance-unfriendly and silly to me :-)
[09:56:50] <Colourless> yeah... should all be floats
[09:57:00] <servus> zlib_libcmt.lib...
[09:57:02] <servus> Yar.
[09:57:35] <servus> Hmm google has absolutely no hits on that one, and I already got zlib.org
[09:57:39] <Colourless> you should just be able to link to zlib.lib...
[09:57:47] <servus> I already am.
[09:57:52] <servus> I'll just copy the lib
[09:58:09] <Colourless> might get a few warning during linking
[09:58:22] <Colourless> shouldn't be fatal... SHOULDN"T
[09:58:39] <servus> That's annoying..
[09:58:47] <servus> It recompiles everything that has a signed/unsigned warning, every time.
[09:58:51] <servus> Means I've gotta fix 'em :-)
[09:59:09] <servus> Well copying the lib gave unresolved externals, so... Hmm :-)
[09:59:10] <Colourless> the reason is i don't want exult to be dependant on microsofts runtime dlls
[09:59:14] <servus> Am I using the right zlib? zlib.org?
[09:59:28] <Colourless> and almost every library out there links to microsofts runtime dlls
[09:59:32] <Colourless> yeah
[09:59:37] <servus> Hmmm....
[09:59:44] <servus> zlib.org just supplied zdll.lib
[09:59:48] * servus shrugs and continues searching
[10:00:05] <servus> God, is there a way to just disable signed/unsigned warnings? There are millions!
[10:00:21] <Colourless> that lib is just a recompiled version of zlib 1.2.1
[10:01:31] <servus> Neat, thanks.
[10:01:48] <servus> Already 3am and I haven't even started coding :-)
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[10:07:01] <servus> Is there a header that *everything* includes?
[10:07:17] <servus> I want to #pragma warning(disable:4018) :-)
[10:07:33] <Colourless> msvc_kludges IS includeded by everything
[10:07:42] <Colourless> automaticcaly by the project
[10:07:42] <servus> Ok, perfect.
[10:08:07] <servus> #error WTF! huh?
[10:08:56] <servus> MUCH better.
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[10:15:43] <servus> OK, squashed all my compilation warnings, if you want my pragma list.
[10:17:59] <servus> Still getting link errors... *pokes around*
[10:18:03] <servus> Am I spamming the channel? :-D
[10:18:36] <Colourless> signed unsigned errors 'can' be important
[10:18:39] <Colourless> it's why i leave htem
[10:19:35] <servus> But it recompiles the entire file and relinks that entire project when it finds one, every time I recompile.
[10:19:54] <servus> They're not my warnings, so I'll disable them. I don't make that error in the first place *smirk*
[10:24:50] <servus> freopen and setbuf are unresolved... Humm..
[10:31:26] <Colourless> probably reset changes that i haven't looked at yet
[10:31:37] <Colourless> s/reset/recent/
[10:32:26] <servus> I'll tell you when I get it to link in MSVC7
[10:32:49] <Colourless> while files causing the problem?
[10:32:49] <servus> Or I'll give up and go to g++ :-)
[10:33:11] <servus> No files, I got them all to compile. I'm still trying to link but I've got those unresolved exports, freopen and setbuf
[10:36:43] <servus> Got it to link!
[10:36:49] <servus> You will barf when you see my linking options :-)
[10:38:18] <Colourless> hehe
[10:38:22] <Colourless> no, i doubti will
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[10:59:27] * EsBee-Eks taps his foot impatiently.
[10:59:30] <EsBee-Eks> can I play 3D U7 yet?
[10:59:39] <servus> No :-p
[10:59:49] <servus> Well, if you're on Windows, yes,
[10:59:58] <servus> It's just Not Worth It, though :-)
[11:00:07] <EsBee-Eks> :( ... :| ... :)
[11:00:16] <servus> Whoa, Exult is running like crap.
[11:00:20] <EsBee-Eks> i just happen to be, but I can wait
[11:00:24] <servus> *very* slow
[11:00:26] <EsBee-Eks> to be on windows*
[11:00:39] <servus> EsBee-Eks, I was referring to my super-cruddy Direct3D version that just renders the ground :-)
[11:01:44] <servus> Why would Exult be running so TERRIBLY?
[11:02:02] <servus> Think it's been made into a CLR app or something? :-/
[11:03:05] <Colourless> debug mode?
[11:03:19] <servus> Yeah but even my CPU-intensive programs don't die like this on debug.
[11:03:21] <Colourless> exult runs really poorlt in debug versions
[11:03:23] <servus> Oh well
[11:03:47] <servus> Strange.
[11:03:54] <Colourless> scalers are a killer
[11:03:56] <servus> Probably because I enabled full JIT.
[11:04:07] <servus> Well, scaling slowness should be solved in OpenGL, at least: -)
[11:04:36] <servus> I do realize that this will be a nightmare getting it to work, though
[11:06:32] <servus> OK, coffee time!
[11:06:36] <EsBee-Eks> I only recently got the play on words about the horse "Nightmare" in SI.
[11:06:56] <EsBee-Eks> And did you know Boydon is an anagram for No Body?!
[11:06:57] <servus> Heh
[11:06:59] <servus> Mare, silly :-)
[11:07:17] <servus> Bye:P
[11:07:21] <wjp_> no body? haha, hadn't heard of that before :-)
[11:07:31] <EsBee-Eks> k:p
[11:07:36] <EsBee-Eks> i think I read it once and forgot
[11:08:22] <wjp_> nightmare - interestingly the dutch word for 'nightmare' (as in the dream) is 'nachtmerrie' which is also literally composed of nacht (night) and merrie (mare, the horse)
[11:09:23] <Colourless> probably is some history behind the word
[11:09:49] <EsBee-Eks> I wouldn't have thought that but yeah it could makes sense.
[11:10:07] <wjp_> a 'mare' is apparently "an evil preternatural being causing nightmares"
[11:10:25] <EsBee-Eks> see also: horse
[11:10:34] <wjp_> ;-)
[11:10:37] <EsBee-Eks> i knew they were evil
[11:10:45] <wjp_> sounds more like bunnies, actually :-)
[11:11:07] <EsBee-Eks> be glad Darke is asleep!
[11:11:07] <wjp_> "Etymology: Middle English, from Old English; akin to Old High German mara incubus, Serbo-Croatian mora nightmare"
[11:11:17] <wjp_> I doubt Darke is asleep
[11:12:01] <Colourless> hehe i dobut it too
[11:13:22] * DarkeZzz denies he is evil! He's merely... misunderstood!
[11:14:29] * DarkeZzz returns to his evilnes^Widleness.
[11:24:09] <servus> These hashbrowns are delicously evil
[11:24:16] <EsBee-Eks> I agree!
[11:27:26] <servus> HOT COFFEE!
[11:27:33] <servus> DANGER!
[11:27:38] <servus> CAUTION! CAUTION HOT COFFEE!
[11:27:40] <EsBee-Eks> It burnssess!
[11:27:46] <servus> On my neck
[11:27:59] <servus> I poured a full cop of boiling coffee on myself at school the other week :|
[11:28:20] <EsBee-Eks> slowly?
[11:28:24] <servus> quickly!
[11:28:31] <servus> Scalded my entire torso and lower face badly.
[11:28:37] <servus> My lower lip missed the cup rim :|
[11:29:51] <EsBee-Eks> only had coffee spilt on my feet before
[11:29:55] <EsBee-Eks> that's bad enough
[11:30:04] <servus> I've had concentrated lye on my feet ;-)
[11:30:12] <EsBee-Eks> you should have just sipped it
[11:30:16] <EsBee-Eks> um... the coffee
[11:30:24] <servus> Burnt through my shoes and to my metatarsals :-)
[11:30:32] <servus> How many of YOUR bones have you seen? :-p
[11:30:40] <EsBee-Eks> i dunno, what's a metatarsal?
[11:30:44] <servus> Foot bones.
[11:30:52] <EsBee-Eks> oh
[11:30:55] <EsBee-Eks> 0
[11:30:58] <servus> Heh
[11:31:03] <servus> I've seen a lot, come to think of it.
[11:31:15] <servus> Between the compround fractures and all..
[11:31:30] <servus> I'm spamming your channel, exultbot! How about that?
[11:32:11] <EsBee-Eks> He's been blocking our access to the logs.
[11:34:01] <servus> Me, exultbot, wjp, or someone else?
[11:34:15] <EsBee-Eks> someone else
[12:15:45] <servus> Is there some way to just *jump into* the middle of a game?
[12:15:52] <servus> Going through the menus every time I recompile is bothersome.
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[12:45:45] <servus> This is... a lot of code :-)
[13:00:36] <servus> Total Estimated Cost to Develop Exult = US$4,109,753
[13:02:13] <Fl00der> :D
[13:04:29] <servus> What an incredible amount of indirection in the code :-)
[13:04:44] <servus> That was my sloccount on the project. /query me if you want a full sloccount listing.
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[13:20:28] <servus> Hlo Darke.
[13:20:48] <Darke> Greetings.
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[13:21:19] <banan> hello
[13:23:00] <Fl00der> hi
[13:23:01] <banan> The Ogg encoded Music files won't loop when I play Ultima VII
[13:23:08] <servus> So... that's a lot of code :-)
[13:23:12] <banan> hey Fl00der: how are you?:D
[13:23:26] <Fl00der> errr...Fine, do I know you? :P
[13:23:32] <banan> maybe:P
[13:23:36] <servus> Grr @ MSVC7... it keeps thinking I have a user breakpoint in ntdll.dll
[13:23:44] <servus> I certainly do not!
[13:23:48] <wjp_> if you were here last night in the 4 minutes he was here yesterday you might know him ;-)
[13:23:55] <Fl00der> hehe
[13:23:58] <banan> hahaa
[13:24:23] <Fl00der> Banan: how do you know me? :P
[13:24:32] <banan> err
[13:24:40] <wjp_> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=782261&group_id=2335&atid=102335
[13:24:48] <banan> I know that you like playing Ultima VII
[13:24:58] <Fl00der> :O
[13:25:04] <Fl00der> you have discovered my secret!
[13:25:07] <banan> thanx guys!:D
[13:25:19] <banan> mhm
[13:25:23] <banan> that I have
[13:25:51] <Fl00der> ah, I ask one magical question
[13:25:59] <Fl00der> banan: Where are you from?
[13:26:37] <banan> I'm from Norway, dude:D
[13:26:41] <Fl00der> hmm
[13:26:54] <Fl00der> I can't remember you, sorry
[13:26:55] <Fl00der> :D
[13:26:58] <banan> :D
[13:27:13] <Fl00der> but somehow I remember that I have talked with some norway dude in IRC :P
[13:27:21] <banan> hehe
[13:27:33] <servus> OK, the MSVC7 debugger is really starting to tick me off.
[13:27:39] <Fl00der> hmm
[13:27:42] <Fl00der> tell me guys
[13:27:54] <banan> I'm listening
[13:28:03] * Fl00der thinks how to say this
[13:28:25] * Fl00der opens dictionary
[13:28:30] <banan> haha
[13:28:35] <servus> What the heck!
[13:28:41] <servus> There *IS* no user breakpoint there!
[13:28:47] <banan> omg
[13:28:52] <servus> Why can't I use MSVC++6 again?
[13:29:03] <banan> I know not
[13:29:07] <wjp_> its C++ support is broken too badly
[13:29:08] * Fl00der closes dictionary because can't find anything useful
[13:29:20] <servus> wjp, well, the MSVC7 debugger is throttling and flogging me.
[13:29:24] <EsBee-Eks> exult --bg/--si
[13:29:25] <Fl00der> well, Why Stones song isn't that loud like other songs in U7?
[13:29:39] <Fl00der> volume is so low when you hear stones -music
[13:29:42] <servus> It keeps breakpointing in system DLLs about a hundred times before starting the actual code :|
[13:30:43] <Fl00der> anyone?
[13:30:45] <banan> hm that's puzzling
[13:31:37] <servus> No, there IS no breakpoint there!
[13:31:40] <EsBee-Eks> maybe the song is just not as loud?
[13:31:44] <banan> Fl00der: You could download the Stones.mp3 song, maybe that beat is higher
[13:31:48] <Fl00der> but why?
[13:31:54] <Fl00der> hehe
[13:32:04] <EsBee-Eks> the volume curve setting affects this
[13:32:07] <EsBee-Eks> but I don't know how
[13:32:19] <Fl00der> but why stones volume is 100 and others like 50 and some is 20
[13:32:24] <Fl00der> why ins't it equal
[13:32:31] <Fl00der> it isn't
[13:32:32] <Fl00der> :P
[13:32:36] <Fl00der> )#()/##2#
[13:33:11] <Fl00der> well, maybe I have to ask from Richard garriot(t)
[13:33:21] <banan> it could be the quality, 'cause they didn't have alot of memory at that time
[13:33:31] <servus> So, no ideas? This will drive me nutso.
[13:33:35] <Fl00der> hmmhmm
[13:33:40] <banan> so they'd have to cut down on the mem
[13:34:21] <banan> high quality songs takes lots of space, you know
[13:34:32] <Fl00der> yep yep
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[13:38:57] <servus> It seems to be breaking every time the program tries to free an invalid address. Great.
[13:39:32] <banan> man, I don't really believe in all those reconstruction projects (i.e. Ultima VIII Exile), the games are just too big.. I have problems with finishing Ultima VII, so imagine how long it would take to create all those things from scratch - in 3D
[13:39:32] <servus> so... the debugger is useless, because this happens every few seconds.
[13:39:39] <servus> Oh well, I'll look at it later.
[13:40:00] <servus> banan, the point is to not recreate any game content to accomplish that.
[13:40:03] <banan> and they have got to implement physics too.
[13:40:53] <servus> Umm.
[13:41:03] <banan> I don't like static worlds
[13:41:41] <servus> Half-Life 2: Ultima 7.
[13:41:45] <banan> haha
[13:41:50] <banan> word:D
[13:42:16] <Fl00der> :s
[13:42:19] <banan> Ultima VII - The official Half-Life 2 MOD:D
[13:42:23] <Fl00der> :D
[13:42:26] <banan> :D
[13:42:27] <Fl00der> :D
[13:42:32] <Fl00der> hehe
[13:43:54] <Fl00der> hmm..why nobody doesn't put U7 BG map and SI map together? :P, thatkind mod would be nice
[13:44:10] <banan> hehe yupp
[13:44:20] <Fl00der> huge world :D
[13:44:25] <banan> hehe
[13:48:25] <banan> Fl00der: what are you doing?
[13:48:53] <Fl00der> nothing special
[13:48:57] <Fl00der> why so?
[13:49:13] <banan> just wondering
[13:49:17] <Fl00der> mmmkay
[13:49:20] <banan> I'm playing ultima 7
[13:49:25] <Fl00der> \o/
[13:49:28] <banan> :D
[13:49:37] <banan> joy:D
[13:49:54] <banan> Fl00der: where are you from, man?
[13:49:55] <Fl00der> I use always one citizen house as my own house in britain :P
[13:50:04] <Fl00der> Finland
[13:50:08] <banan> Suomi;D
[13:50:09] <banan> hehe
[13:50:12] <Fl00der> jep
[13:50:24] <Fl00der> i mean yep
[13:50:25] <banan> we are neighbours
[13:50:25] <Fl00der> :P
[13:50:28] <servus> OK
[13:50:29] <banan> hhee
[13:50:30] <Fl00der> yes
[13:50:37] <servus> Starting to figure out the rendering system
[13:50:37] <Fl00der> servus soon going to kick use maybe...
[13:50:43] <servus> Kick use?
[13:50:50] <Fl00der> us
[13:50:53] <Fl00der> wtf
[13:50:56] <servus> Kick you?W Why?
[13:50:57] <Fl00der> I typo too much now
[13:51:01] <banan> hehe
[13:51:05] <Fl00der> mm...for no reason :P
[13:51:13] <servus> I'm just trying to figure out the U7 rendering system
[13:51:15] <Fl00der> if we flood the channel too much with banan :P
[13:51:20] <servus> I've never seen so much indirection in one project :-)
[13:51:24] <Fl00der> :)
[13:51:28] <servus> Thank goodness for Go To Definition
[13:51:31] <banan> servus: are you a member of the Exult team?:D
[13:51:44] <servus> Nah, I just drew some pants for the Avatar ;-)
[13:51:49] <banan> haha:D
[13:52:12] <Fl00der> hmm...what program you are using to look/modify code, or what in the world are you doing now? "__"
[13:52:15] <servus> I am working on the code now, though. Mostly just learning its layout
[13:52:22] <banan> ok
[13:52:23] <servus> MSVC7.
[13:52:32] <Fl00der> mmm....easy to use?
[13:52:36] <servus> I might just switch to vim and g++ if it continues to annoy me
[13:52:39] <servus> I'd much rather us MSVC++6!
[13:52:46] <Fl00der> mmm,...easy to use?
[13:52:58] <servus> MSVC does have some essential features that make it much easier to use than anything else, though.
[13:53:11] <servus> For instance, when you see a function call, you can go right to the code for that function... That's nice
[13:53:16] <Fl00der> :O
[13:53:28] <banan> hehe
[13:53:29] * Fl00der start looking + downloading that program
[13:53:30] <servus> The debugger is very nice, too, but I'm not going to be able to use it :|
[13:53:54] * Fl00der = extreme novice coder
[13:53:57] <servus> There are too many runtime errors in Exult for me to use it. It keeps breaking everywhere I don't want it to :-(
[13:54:25] <banan> that's a damn shame
[13:54:41] <servus> So... it really doesn't work in MSVC++6? :-)
[13:55:06] <Fl00der> ask from exult team :P
[13:55:09] <Fl00der> wjp
[13:55:09] <servus> For huge projects, edit-and-continue debugging is essential if you want to keep sane :-)
[13:55:12] <Fl00der> wake up
[13:55:13] <Fl00der> :P
[13:55:20] <servus> He already said not.
[13:55:24] <Fl00der> ok
[13:56:27] <servus> Something I *would* like to know is if there's a devmode #define that will let me jump right into the game upon running it :-)
[13:59:24] <servus> OK, well night.
[13:59:47] <banan> are you tired?
[13:59:51] <banan> ok
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[15:08:19] <Fl00der> hi baastuul
[15:08:40] <Baastuul> Hallo
[15:08:46] <Fl00der> just woke up?
[15:10:06] <sbx> cya
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[15:10:10] <Fl00der> cya
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[16:34:33] <banan> hey y'all:D
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[16:49:26] <Matt_O> why hello there
[16:49:30] <banan> hi
[16:49:34] <banan> how are you?
[16:49:42] <Matt_O> pretty good, and yourself?
[16:49:58] <banan> I'm a'ight
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[19:43:45] <banan> hello?
[19:52:12] <sbx|afk> hello
[19:54:06] <banan> hi there
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[20:01:32] <Baastuul> QUATSCH
[20:01:35] <banan> what?
[20:01:35] <DraX> hi
[20:01:39] <banan> hello
[20:02:34] <DraX> hmm
[20:02:43] <banan> what are you doing?
[20:02:45] <DraX> i'm thinking about trying a linux binary of exult
[20:03:01] <banan> why linux?
[20:03:15] <DraX> 1.2 does not work on freebsd
[20:03:19] <banan> have you tried the windows binary?
[20:03:37] <DraX> i don't run windows
[20:03:41] <banan> why not?
[20:03:46] <DraX> because i don't.
[20:03:58] <DraX> heh
[20:04:02] <DraX> i've been using freebsd for years
[20:04:06] <banan> ok
[20:04:26] <DraX> I can pretty easily run linux binaries
[20:04:31] <banan> ok
[20:04:47] <banan> g2g
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[21:59:36] <servus> Hmm. Colourless really prefers MSVC7? I found an option to continue (not break) on all exceptions, but it isn't honouring my settings.
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[23:01:39] <sbx> hi again
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[23:14:44] <sbx> hi Darke
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[23:17:14] <Darke> Greetz.
[23:19:22] <Baastuul> Hullo.
[23:21:17] <sbx> heya
[23:21:31] <sbx> Darke: ever used SystemRescueCD?
[23:21:34] <sbx> it's based on Gentoo
[23:21:39] <sbx> 100MB cd
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[23:27:34] <banan> hello
[23:31:07] <sbx> hi
[23:32:21] <banan> hey
[23:32:54] <banan> sbx: what are you doing?
[23:33:07] <sbx> eating pizza and playing harvest moon 64
[23:33:12] <banan> mmmmm
[23:33:18] <banan> yummy
[23:33:24] <sbx> you?
[23:33:35] <banan> I haven't played harvest moon 64
[23:33:42] <banan> I'm installing syndicate
[23:34:12] <sbx> syndicate wars is one of my favorites
[23:34:26] <banan> hehe
[23:34:27] <sbx> syndicate is not bad either but I didnt play much
[23:34:31] <banan> ok
[23:41:37] <banan> sbx: do you got dosbox?
[23:42:48] <banan> nevermind
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