#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 6 Aug 2001 (GMT)

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[00:00:22] <Dominus> Fingolfin: now I know why you have this huge inbox all the time :-)
[00:00:39] <Fingolfin> my inbox is small, I have mail filters
[00:01:42] <Dominus> okay, compiled fine now (still without class game_window in exult.h, btw)
[00:01:58] <Fingolfin> yeah, but I added it anyway, just to be sure
[00:02:22] <Fingolfin> e.g. if somebody includes it w/o using game_window; that might happen in the future, so I prefer doing it The Right Way (TM)
[00:05:15] <Dominus> okay, you are off the hook now :-)
[00:05:24] <Fingolfin> phew
[00:05:41] <Dominus> reading tip: Eric v. Lustbader - the ring of five dragons
[00:05:47] <Fingolfin> ryan also used precomp headers
[00:05:59] * Fingolfin checks amazon.de for that
[00:06:10] <Dominus> just started to read this - and itīs quite nice
[00:06:34] <Dominus> any Lustbader fantasy book is great (Sunset Warrior books!!!)
[00:06:57] <Fingolfin> "Taschenbuch - 616 Seiten " - Widerspruch in sich, oder= ;)
[00:07:16] <Dominus> großes Format
[00:08:02] <Dominus> 15,5 x 24 cm
[00:08:16] <Dominus> große Tashe :-)
[00:08:27] <Dominus> Tasche sogar
[00:08:41] <Dominus> sorry guys for writing German
[00:09:02] <Fingolfin> hehehe
[00:09:10] <Fingolfin> rather expensive, though :/
[00:09:24] <Dominus> And you really should check out the Otherland series by Tad Wiliams
[00:09:24] <Fingolfin> you say it is really good?
[00:09:32] * Fingolfin rolls his eyes
[00:09:37] <Dominus> at page 117 it is good
[00:09:40] <Fingolfin> where do I get all the money and time? ;)
[00:10:03] <Dominus> Otherland series has only 4 books :-)
[00:10:06] <Fingolfin> dominus: I'll put it on my list, and when you are finished with it, you tell me if it was good at page 600, too? ;)
[00:10:25] <Dominus> good, will do!
[00:10:56] <Fingolfin> Tad Wiliams ... hm... I wonder if I read something by him...
[00:10:59] <hebble> do they have this CodeRed worm in Europe?
[00:11:22] <Fingolfin> nah, but we have mad cow desease
[00:11:23] <Dominus> but it is part of a series and from the speed Lustbader puts out books you can safely buy it in 5 years and still get part 3 fresh out of the press
[00:12:12] * Dominus reads : ... mad cow disease but it is part of a series..."
[00:12:24] <Fingolfin> <g>
[00:12:46] <hebble> i heard some vegan say that 80%+ of london might die in the next 20 years thanks to MCD
[00:13:02] <Dominus> hebble: of course we do, itīs not kept only on one continent (the net doesnīt know such limits, I guess)
[00:13:51] <Dominus> Fingolfin: Otherland is a series I can safely say that it is still good after 4 books
[00:14:24] <Fingolfin> hebble: well, vegan's have troubles with their brain cells, too, they'll be dead 10 years before
[00:14:29] <Fingolfin> what a bullshit!
[00:14:32] <Fingolfin> dom: ok ;)
[00:15:56] <hebble> i'm getting a linker error: audio/midi_drivers/.libs/libmididrv.a(forked_player.o): In function `forked_player::forked_player(int)':
[00:15:57] <hebble> forked_player.o(.text+0x40): undefined reference to `forked_player::MidiAbstract virtual table'
[00:15:57] <hebble> audio/midi_drivers/.libs/libmididrv.a(forked_player.o): In function `forked_player::~forked_player(void)':
[00:15:59] <hebble> forked_player.o(.text+0x83): undefined reference to `forked_player::MidiAbstract virtual table'
[00:15:59] <hebble> c
[00:17:24] <Fingolfin> hum, weid
[00:17:57] <Fingolfin> weird even
[00:18:10] <hebble> man i wish i had the ess-zet character on my keyboard.
[00:18:38] <Fingolfin> why do you want ß on your keyboard? copy & paste is fine, too, no? ;)
[00:19:33] <Fingolfin> hebble: I think this error is not caused by me, I didn't touch that code
[00:20:28] <Fingolfin> and somebody misunderstood the usage of "virtual" in class inheritance, lol
[00:20:46] <Fingolfin> which gcc version do you use, hebble?
[00:21:11] <Fingolfin> slim chance that it helps, but try editing forked_player.h; remove the "virtual" keyword in this line:
[00:21:12] <Fingolfin> class forked_player : virtual public MidiAbstract
[00:23:38] <hebble> hmm, same error. egcs-2.91.66, which has worked fine before today.
[00:23:50] <Fingolfin> uuuppps
[00:23:57] <Fingolfin> that is old
[00:24:10] <Fingolfin> it compiled the exult before?
[00:24:41] <hebble> yeah, it compiled fine last time.
[00:24:45] <Fingolfin> strange
[00:25:41] <hebble> hold on; i didn't do a 'make clean' after that last change, rebuilding...
[00:25:45] <Fingolfin> I have an idea
[00:26:14] <Fingolfin> I removed some lines, maybe they were important for gcc;
[00:26:29] <Fingolfin> tell me when you hit forked_player again
[00:27:21] <hebble> hmm, i think it's past that, but the error comes at the end anyway
[00:27:41] <Fingolfin> yeah, at the end during linking
[00:28:19] <Dominus> Fingolfin: if you have time can you check out http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=447114&group_id=2335&atid=102335 if that savegame works for you or not?
[00:28:24] <Fingolfin> try adding in forked_placer.cc these lines after the #if XWIN
[00:28:34] <Fingolfin> #if (__GNUG__ >= 2) && (!defined WIN32)
[00:28:34] <Fingolfin> # pragma implementation
[00:28:34] <Fingolfin> #endif
[00:28:42] <Fingolfin> Dom: sure
[00:28:57] <Dominus> for me it crashes for Jeff it doesnīt
[00:29:44] <hebble> should that be __GNUC__ rather than __GNUG__ ?
[00:29:47] <Fingolfin> hrm, jeff should at least set the flags like "works for me"
[00:30:03] <Dominus> he fixed some stuff there
[00:30:31] <Fingolfin> hebble: that was in there before; I removed it accidentally; it is the same in other files
[00:31:38] <hebble> the previous build is still progressing; i'll try again when it's done (no need to rebuild the other object files, i'd think)
[00:31:56] <Fingolfin> sure
[00:32:09] <Fingolfin> only one .o will be rebuild; and the lib & main binary of course
[00:33:10] <Fingolfin> dom: I have to recompile first
[00:33:34] <Dominus> take your time, you know what time it is
[00:33:36] <Dominus> :-)
[00:35:01] <Fingolfin> 90 secs; precomp headers help speed up the compile speed for sure ;)
[00:35:09] <Fingolfin> full build that is
[00:36:00] <Dominus> for me it takes... 6 minutes (no pre compiled headers, though)
[00:37:04] <hebble> MHz/RAM check
[00:37:07] <hebble> ;)
[00:37:53] <Dominus> 1 GHz, 262 MB RAM
[00:38:10] <Fingolfin> just crossed the bridge, no crash so far...
[00:38:16] <Fingolfin> 400 Mhz, 448 MB ;)
[00:38:20] <Dominus> wait
[00:38:22] <Fingolfin> gcc is slow
[00:38:43] <hebble> 2x350/256
[00:39:00] <Fingolfin> dom: ?
[00:39:08] <Dominus> so it didnīt crash when the gargoyle is lowering the bridge?
[00:39:30] <Fingolfin> is this rendeing bug in the lava left of the bridge normal=
[00:39:49] <Fingolfin> dom: I talked to him, he asked me to pass the test, I said "yes", he lowered the bridge, I walked over
[00:39:50] <Dominus> actually no, but I was too lazy to report
[00:39:51] <Fingolfin> no crash
[00:40:19] <Dominus> hm, maybe I have to ask Ryan again, when he shows up tomorow/later
[00:40:21] <Dominus> sigh
[00:40:22] <Fingolfin> hm, please report the rendering bug; or I can if you prefer; you can just refer to this savefile me thinks
[00:40:36] <Fingolfin> dom: it crash on windows only or what? hm
[00:40:44] <Fingolfin> dom: well, I have this win 98 emulator here... ;)
[00:40:51] <Fingolfin> i only would need to install exult/win
[00:40:56] <Fingolfin> "only"
[00:40:57] <Fingolfin> hrm
[00:40:58] <hebble> i just got a successful compile.
[00:41:00] <Dominus> yep, you can do it, it is rendered normally when you are at itīs level
[00:41:08] <Fingolfin> hebble: w or w/o the change?
[00:41:16] <hebble> with the __GNUG__ stuff.
[00:41:37] <Fingolfin> ok, I'll add it back
[00:42:02] <hebble> cool
[00:42:02] <Dominus> damn,it always crashes for meeeeeee
[00:42:36] <Fingolfin> hmm
[00:42:53] <Fingolfin> could it be that something in your gamedat folder is broken?
[00:43:17] <Dominus> hm, why should it be ?
[00:43:24] <Fingolfin> dom: try renaming your gamedat folder, to force it to create a new one; and then try again
[00:43:29] <Fingolfin> dom: no idea, just a blind guess
[00:43:32] <Dominus> the same savegame works for you guys but not for me
[00:43:41] <Fingolfin> dom: it also good be a windows only bug of course
[00:43:45] <Dominus> Iīll try anyway
[00:43:58] <Fingolfin> it is just a random guess
[00:45:04] <Dominus> nope, didnīt change anything
[00:45:27] <Dominus> could eally be a windows bug (thatīs why Iīm waiting for colourless)
[00:45:40] <Dominus> ah, wait Kirben is also a windows user!!!
[00:45:46] <Dominus> KIRbEN!!!
[00:46:18] <Fingolfin> isn't he this guy doing windows snapshots= 8-)
[00:46:28] * Dominus hopes he listens to this channel even though he said to bbl
[00:46:34] <Dominus> exactly
[00:46:45] <Dominus> totally forgot :-)
[00:49:15] <Dominus> Fingolfin: nice log message :-)
[00:50:00] <Fingolfin> did the original SI abacus also say "monetari, gold nuggest" etc., i.e. mention stuff we have 0 off ?
[00:50:01] <Fingolfin> he
[00:50:34] <Fingolfin> hey, jeff is up and working on exult! yippie ;)
[00:50:34] <Dominus> donīt know anymore
[00:50:46] <Dominus> yeah, Iīm just recompiling
[00:54:21] <Fingolfin> he
[00:54:45] <Fingolfin> and waiting for colourless is a bit hopeless
[00:55:00] <Fingolfin> he left here 2 hours ago or so...
[00:55:12] <Fingolfin> hence he will be sleeping for some time ;)
[00:55:31] <hebble> has anyone else noticed that you can drag items out of your status gump?
[00:55:42] <Dominus> hebble: yes
[00:56:12] <hebble> is there a bug filed for that? i didn't see one.
[00:56:14] <Dominus> Fingolfin: I know but I hope for KIRBEN!!! to report back in
[00:56:51] <Dominus> hebble: it isnīt but it popped up occasionally but no one wanted to cmmit it
[00:57:35] * Fingolfin pokes Kirben with a trout
[00:57:49] <hebble> hmm, maybe i'll start looking at that next. :)
[00:57:52] <Dominus> hebble: transparent stats window bug is describing this in the comment
[00:59:13] <Dominus> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=444583&group_id=2335&atid=102335 to be more precise
[00:59:50] * Dominus notices he is down to 8 open bugs submitted by him
[01:00:24] <Fingolfin> hebble: wow, I didn't know about this, it is weird
[01:00:43] <Dominus> but only one left in SS and thatīs one that is left by the original
[01:01:25] <Dominus> Fingolfin, hebble: it is really strange, it doesnīt always happen but it does occasionally and dating back almost a year, I think
[01:01:48] <Fingolfin> I'll take a look at it, maybe I have a genius idea ;)
[01:02:16] <Dominus> oh, yes, please enlighten us :-)
[01:02:48] <Fingolfin> dom: btw, your bug description is not correct; it seems to be not a transparancy issues
[01:02:59] <Fingolfin> I first moved the stats gump to be next to my papperdoll gump
[01:03:00] <Dominus> it was not my bug!!!
[01:03:09] <Fingolfin> and still, I could get my armor ;)
[01:03:12] <Fingolfin> oh, sorry ;)
[01:03:15] <Dominus> :-)
[01:03:38] <Dominus> you donīt even have to have the inventory open sometimes
[01:04:30] <Fingolfin> yeah
[01:04:38] <hebble> i'm noticing it more consistently on BG than on SI, but that might be swamp gas.
[01:04:55] <matt0> <Dominus> it was not my bug!!!
[01:04:57] <matt0> hehe
[01:05:43] <hebble> also, it happens sometimes with paperdolls disabled
[01:05:54] <Fingolfin> yeah
[01:05:58] <Fingolfin> I am on the track already, folks
[01:06:22] <hebble> maybe this is a clue: the positions of items are consistent with the paperdoll display, whether paperdolls are on or not!
[01:06:57] <Fingolfin> or should I say, "drag" ? ;)
[01:06:59] <Fingolfin> well
[01:07:06] <Fingolfin> the problem seems to be our dragging code
[01:07:46] <Dominus> ah, easy or bad?
[01:07:59] <Dominus> at 3 am
[01:08:12] <Fingolfin> not sure yet
[01:08:33] * Dominus decides to page KIRBEN !!! again
[01:09:05] <hebble> another minor niggle: invisible items become visible in inventory
[01:09:34] <Dominus> to test this out - either go to sleeping bull in SI
[01:09:46] <Dominus> or to the cheat room in BG
[01:09:59] <hebble> 'cheat room'?
[01:10:09] <Dominus> hehe
[01:10:26] <Dominus> in Trinsic, enable hackmover
[01:10:47] <Dominus> go to the smithy of Sparkīs father
[01:11:01] <Dominus> drag the avatar on the roof of the smithy
[01:11:11] <Dominus> walk around the chimney
[01:11:31] <hebble> gimme a sec
[01:11:36] <Dominus> thatīs the famous cheat room
[01:12:14] <hebble> i wanna get there without cheating. gotta fly and build a staircase. :)
[01:12:29] <Dominus> just for testing this is easier
[01:12:34] <Dominus> canīt fly there
[01:12:40] <hebble> [to trinsic, i mean]
[01:12:57] <Dominus> have to build a stair with the crates all around the smithy and buildings next to it
[01:13:15] <hebble> i have eight chests on my carpet, shouldn't be a problem.
[01:13:17] <Dominus> and you are cheating anyway when you use this room
[01:13:29] <Dominus> not enough, I think
[01:14:17] <Dominus> you need 15
[01:14:56] <hebble> hmm, i seem to have already put all the crates outside anyway... ;)
[01:16:11] <Dominus> ok in that first cheat room you find all the basics (full spellbook, some gold, reagents, prisms, rudyoms wand)
[01:16:58] <Dominus> then stepping on the teleporter you will get to the teleporter room where you can get to all the citys (corresponding to the correct rune of virtue)
[01:17:28] <Dominus> and to special places (some heavily plot related like the black gate room)
[01:18:38] <hebble> wow, yes, this is cheating. i won't be saving.
[01:18:45] <hebble> cool though.
[01:18:49] <hebble> where is it located on the map?
[01:19:05] <Dominus> fire up F3 to see it on the "real map"
[01:19:52] <Fingolfin> I see the problem, but I need to think on how to fix it, hmm
[01:19:59] <hebble> god i love origin.
[01:20:10] <hebble> the old origin, that is.
[01:21:27] <hebble> hmm, that actually explains why i wasn't able to find a way into those mountains. :)
[01:22:39] <Dominus> ähm, seems to me I found a new bug right now
[01:23:12] <Dominus> hebble: after you teleported via the first room to the teleporter room, can you teleport from any of those teleporters?
[01:23:22] <hebble> i didn't try.
[01:23:31] <hebble> i'll go back...
[01:24:22] <hebble> the moonglow one worked, just at random.
[01:24:28] <Fingolfin> stats+item bug fixed now, will commit change in a second
[01:24:54] <Fingolfin> it was easy to fix, but I was wondering if there is a more fundamental flaw, but no...
[01:24:59] <Dominus> please try more from the upper ones
[01:25:05] <hebble> Fingolfin: be careful, don't encourage us. i've got half a sheet of paper worth of these. ;)
[01:25:18] <Dominus> hebble i mean
[01:25:36] <hebble> enchanted hourglass teleporter took me to the sphere generator...
[01:26:13] <hebble> etherial ring seems broke
[01:26:18] <hebble> terfin works
[01:26:40] <hebble> throne of guardian seems broke
[01:26:47] <hebble> black gate works
[01:26:56] <Dominus> yeah there is omething wrong there
[01:27:12] <Dominus> if you now teleport back to trinsic
[01:27:34] <Dominus> with F3 I mean
[01:27:39] <hebble> what about trinsic?
[01:27:47] <Dominus> then go up to the roof and back to the first room
[01:27:57] <Dominus> does the teleporter work again?
[01:28:34] <Dominus> and if it does try again (without reloading)
[01:28:37] <hebble> it worked the third time i stepped on it
[01:28:59] <hebble> britain teleporter worked 2nd time
[01:29:02] <Dominus> thatīs what I mean it doesnīt seem to work now on every first try
[01:29:25] <Dominus> hebble: you can stop now, i think this is enough confirmation
[01:29:32] <hebble> ok
[01:30:02] <Dominus> Iīm guessing Jeffīs moontrial fix broke this a little
[01:32:58] * hebble covers ears, till he gets that far in SI.
[01:33:42] <Dominus> sorry, hebble, Iīm so used to speak to people here that have at least played either of the gems at least once
[01:34:05] <Dominus> gems=games
[01:34:44] <hebble> no biggie. i played BG obsessively when it came out, finally won it a little while ago in Exult, now working on SI.
[01:35:14] <Dominus> you have to expect this here, sorry. No way around it
[01:35:28] <hebble> i know.
[01:35:56] <Dominus> say, do you have one of the original SIīs?
[01:36:05] <Dominus> without Silver Seed?
[01:36:09] <hebble> i have 'the complete ultima 7', so no.
[01:36:15] <Dominus> damn
[01:36:21] <hebble> i have the original bg and fov tho.
[01:36:31] <hebble> why?
[01:37:15] <Fingolfin> btw, you can try the one-line "fix" for the stats bug from CVS if ya want
[01:37:55] <Dominus> there is something odd with some guys inventory in Si. He carries a usecode generated NPC that is only generated with Silver Seed added. we wondered what he actually carreis
[01:39:59] <Dominus> btw, hebble, a nice easter egg to see: enable the pick pocket cheat (Alt-ctrl-p)
[01:40:12] <hebble> Yeah, i read the docs to exult. ;)
[01:40:24] <hebble> or exultstudio or wherever that was.
[01:40:32] <Dominus> and check the inventory of the actors in Britains playhouse
[01:41:02] <Dominus> hebble: what do you mean with you read the docs - what am I missing in the conversation?
[01:41:18] <hebble> i misunderstood - i thought pickpocket WAS the easter egg. nevermind.
[01:41:31] <hebble> is that a troll doll?
[01:41:41] <Dominus> right :-)
[01:42:25] <hebble> why does her inventory keep popping up after i walk away?
[01:42:27] <Dominus> I wonder what the meaning of that one was
[01:42:28] <hebble> i see 3 of them
[01:43:39] <Dominus> Had this happen for me as well sometime, donīt know whatīs happening there
[01:43:54] <Dominus> itīs oneof those not-reproducable bugs
[01:44:41] <Fingolfin> you mean you have three inventory gumps for the same actor?
[01:44:46] <Fingolfin> with latest CVS?
[01:44:49] <Fingolfin> at the same time?
[01:44:52] <hebble> yeah, and they each have different carrying capacities.
[01:45:07] <hebble> Dominus: have you pick'd Batlin?
[01:45:20] <Dominus> wait just recompiling
[01:45:26] <Fingolfin> hebble: hu?
[01:45:38] <Dominus> Fingolfin: I had this happen to me once as well
[01:45:44] <hebble> sorry, what do you mean "hu"?
[01:45:51] <Fingolfin> hebble: what do you mean with "they" ? one person or multiple ones?
[01:46:11] <Dominus> I pick pocketed someone, walked away, his/her paperdoll popped up again and again and again
[01:46:19] <hebble> Three windows of jesse, with different carrying capacities at the bottom.
[01:48:05] <hebble> batlin armageddon easter egg is neat. unfortunately first time i tried it, i forgot to drop the Cube.
[01:48:31] <Dominus> hehe
[01:48:38] <Dominus> did you kill LB once?
[01:48:42] <hebble> yeah
[01:48:51] <Dominus> read his will?
[01:48:58] <hebble> yeah, his mistress.
[01:51:12] <Dominus> Fingolfin try for yourself with the actors in britain works for me now (meaning reproducable)
[01:51:56] <Dominus> pick pocket jesse, and/or someone else, close the gumps with ESC, walk away
[01:52:14] <hebble> fyi, i closed without escape, same problem.
[01:52:17] <Fingolfin> cool
[01:52:24] <Fingolfin> sounds like a bug in the gump_manager
[01:52:25] <Fingolfin> I'll try
[01:52:25] <Dominus> :-(
[01:52:31] <Fingolfin> submit a bug report, please
[01:52:37] <Fingolfin> so i can close it if I fix it ;)))
[01:52:53] <Dominus> phew, do I have to?
[01:52:55] <Dominus> :-)
[01:53:52] <hebble> Fingolfin: i just did a cvs up and cvs diff, and i noticed i still have class forked_player : public MidiAbstract without the 'virtual', but latest cvs has virtual. should it still work?
[01:54:12] <Fingolfin> shouldn't make difference
[01:54:27] <Fingolfin> the virtual has no effect in this case
[01:54:52] <Dominus> Fingolfin: it seems to me that after you pickpocketed them instead of the stuff they say on the screen, their inventory pops up
[01:55:31] * hebble , baffled, consults Stroustrup.
[01:56:39] <hebble> does turning off pickpocket help?
[01:56:58] <Dominus> it does
[01:57:00] <Fingolfin> well
[01:57:10] <Dominus> well?
[01:57:25] <Fingolfin> virtual base classes do have an effect, but not here for us, only has an effect if you do multiple inheritance
[02:03:16] <hebble> stat-item fix WFM.
[02:03:25] <Dominus> Fingolfin: just comitting this bug with a savegame
[02:03:41] <Fingolfin> "WFM"?
[02:03:49] <Fingolfin> dom: oh ok
[02:03:56] <hebble> Works For Me. It's one of the canned responses on sourceforge.
[02:03:59] <Dominus> what fucking miracle?
[02:04:36] <Dominus> :-)
[02:04:53] <hebble> invisibility is contagious!
[02:05:05] <Dominus> how so?
[02:05:23] <hebble> when i put (visible) stuff in my invisible bag, it comes out invisible!
[02:05:44] <Dominus> where did you get an invisible bag?
[02:06:07] <hebble> some cave between britain, trinsic, and skarabrae
[02:06:18] <hebble> it was in the original
[02:07:57] <hebble> wait, my bad, it's southwest of trinsic on the mainland
[02:08:14] <Fingolfin> can you reproduce this bug? https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=442232&group_id=2335&atid=102335
[02:08:40] <Fingolfin> hebble: if you give the exact coords or a savegame with the bag, and submit a bug report... ;)
[02:09:49] <hebble> i'm not sure that should be a bug.
[02:09:52] <hebble> ?
[02:10:26] <Dominus> aehm, Fingolfin: which part of it? the avatar doesnīt resume standing frame after casting that one is reproducible for sure
[02:11:08] <matt0> hebble: in other words, it's ok to reproduce Ultima 7 bugs? hehe
[02:11:41] <hebble> well, the existence of the bag is fine, right? just the contagiousness would be the bug?
[02:12:10] <Dominus> hebble: i found the bug but the only items affected by this are the invisble pwders in it allready
[02:12:37] <Fingolfin> dom: I only tried two or three spells, worked... hmm.... is this always or only sometimes? only with some spells or all?
[02:13:18] <hebble> Dominus: try putting a visible dagger in there, and then put it on the ground.
[02:13:29] <Fingolfin> ah, I found the reason of the inventories picking up
[02:13:33] <hebble> wait, never mind
[02:13:51] <Fingolfin> the same reaons that will make "T" not talk but open inventory when you have pick pocket enabled (bugs me like hell)
[02:14:16] <Fingolfin> I guess we should differentiate between double clicks and all other sorts of "activations" of actors, like by "T" key or by usecode
[02:14:36] <hebble> Dominus: i know, try putting items in it, then save, then load, then put them on the ground.
[02:14:44] <Fingolfin> in fact, we do, I only need to code it in, ha!
[02:15:12] <Dominus> Fingolfin: the pose is always the finishing pose of casting not normal standing, no matter which spells I try
[02:16:24] <Dominus> hebble: yep you are right this way it is really contagious
[02:16:30] <Dominus> cool actually
[02:16:44] <hebble> well if it's dependent on save-and-load, then it's definitely a bug, right?
[02:18:30] <Dominus> yep, Iīd say so. And I think it is also in the original
[02:19:52] <Fingolfin> pick pocket fixed & in cvs
[02:19:53] <Dominus> hebble: Iīll comitt this now to the bug tracker
[02:19:57] <hebble> okay
[02:20:50] <hebble> fyi there's an invisible chest somewhere, too, don't remember where i got it.
[02:21:22] <Dominus> the crate from the cheat room but that one doesnīt produce this
[02:23:12] <-- matt0 has left IRC (Laserdisc Arcade Emulation Project: http://daphne.rulecity.com , get your CVS password today! =])
[02:23:15] <Fingolfin> is this a bug or feature: whenever I drag the black sword, my paperdoll gump closes
[02:24:15] <Dominus> hebble: it does happen with the crate as well but only to items not to containers
[02:25:39] <Fingolfin> dom: re: the casting frame: I only tried cold/fire blast, for those you can't see a difference ,)
[02:25:47] <Fingolfin> but with great light, i see the problem
[02:26:27] <hebble> re: black sword dragging, bg or si? can't reproduce on bg.
[02:26:45] <Dominus> Fingolfin: in SI? donīt know for sure. Iīd say bug (donīt know why I didnīt submit it)
[02:26:56] <Fingolfin> in SI
[02:27:07] <Dominus> Fingolfin: you are right on some it works on others it doesnīt
[02:27:10] <Fingolfin> it feels like a bug, but I forgot how it was in the original ;)
[02:27:32] <Dominus> In BG you arenīt actually supposed to move the Blacksword from your inventory
[02:27:38] <hebble> well, the black sword does tell you he won't be leaving. maybe they decided to give that some teeth in si. :)
[02:27:40] <Dominus> (it is bonded to you)
[02:28:01] <hebble> hmm, i just set it on the ground, no problem. maybe that's a bug too?
[02:28:09] <Fingolfin> ?
[02:28:11] <Dominus> thatīs what I mean
[02:28:14] <Fingolfin> why a bug?
[02:28:31] <Dominus> Two things:
[02:28:48] <Dominus> in BG you houldnīt be able to drop it, it should always remain on you
[02:28:56] <hebble> avatar: "bye" sword: "forgive me master, but i shan't be leaving. however, thou mayest cease speaking... if thou dost wish it."
[02:29:09] <Dominus> in SI when you get it back the same thing until you release the demon
[02:29:45] <hebble> (i think the invisible chest was from one of the northern prison caves...)
[02:30:58] <Dominus> Fingolfin: I will make a list of spells that are animated wrong (tomorrow or in two days) unless someone alse does it
[02:31:14] <Fingolfin> or it gets fixed before ;)
[02:31:21] <Dominus> :-)
[02:31:32] <Fingolfin> it is enought to have one or two for testing, I added Greater Light and Protect All to the bug desc
[02:33:14] <hebble> does Rowenna still crash?
[02:33:19] <Dominus> should I add a bug with "Demon Sword not behaving"
[02:33:26] <Dominus> Rowenna doesnīt anymore
[02:38:55] <Fingolfin> dominus: add the bug, yeah, I forgot that you couln't drop it in BG / later SI, I must admit
[02:39:09] <Fingolfin> but that would partially explain why the inventory vanishes
[02:39:21] <Fingolfin> I bet some usecode gets exectured or so, cauing the inventory to go away
[02:39:28] <Dominus> some kind of usecode that is not yet implemented correctly
[02:39:39] <Fingolfin> at these moments I'd like to be able to play the original to compare
[02:39:44] <Fingolfin> maybe
[02:40:18] <Dominus> I can only if i dual boot to Win9x but there I can do not much else, so I donīt do it often
[02:40:35] <Dominus> you could give that U7run a try
[02:40:45] <Dominus> maybe it runs on that Windows emu
[02:40:48] <Fingolfin> cool! I can crash it using the black sword ;)
[02:41:00] <Dominus> whereß
[02:41:00] <Dominus> ?
[02:41:06] <Fingolfin> dominus: good idea! I'll add it to my todo
[02:41:30] <Fingolfin> dominus: I wanted to try the demons sword/inventory go away thing; I used the save game you submitted for the bridge bug
[02:42:00] <Fingolfin> I moved the black sword from my inv, inv vanishes, i drop it by accident into a wall (in the black part behind the wall), get a "can't mvoe", then an access fault
[02:42:09] <Fingolfin> dunno if I can reproduce it, though
[02:43:30] <Dominus> Fingolfin: should I add two bugs to the tracker in regard to this blacksword not bahaving?
[02:43:49] <Fingolfin> crash is reproducable
[02:43:51] <Fingolfin> sure
[02:43:57] <Fingolfin> you can refer to the bridge savegame ;)
[02:44:04] <Fingolfin> hey, that save game is good for four bugs ;)
[02:44:08] <Dominus> ah, good
[02:44:12] <Fingolfin> bridge, spell animation, bsword 1&2
[02:44:50] <Dominus> can you add your bug with the crash yourself?
[02:45:03] <Fingolfin> sure, and I know why it happens, too
[02:45:13] <Fingolfin> it tries to "put back" the item
[02:45:19] <Fingolfin> but the gump is gone!
[02:45:23] <Fingolfin> so it crashs
[02:54:22] <Fingolfin> would you agree that if no paperdoll gumps are open, and one presses i, then the avatar's one should be opened?
[02:54:38] <Fingolfin> it confuses me when it opens say Iolo or Shamino, although I recognize the pattern behind it
[02:54:46] <hebble> yes. same for z. this doesn't work with the status bar, unless you press escape.
[02:54:48] <Dominus> yep
[02:54:59] <Dominus> agreed
[02:55:07] <Dominus> the pattern is easy to spot
[02:56:13] <Dominus> I also donīt like the pattern of the placemant of opened gumps, but I donīt know a better pattern
[02:56:17] <Fingolfin> "agreed, the pattern is easy to spot" or "agreed, fix it" ? ;)
[02:56:23] * Fingolfin nods
[02:56:31] <Dominus> agreed fix it
[02:56:35] <Fingolfin> ok ;)
[02:57:30] <Dominus> hey my bug count is up to 11 again!!!
[02:59:12] * Dominus looks at the time
[02:59:20] <Dominus> but at what cost
[03:00:05] <Dominus> hebble: where are you from?
[03:00:21] <hebble> from chicago. in champaign-urbana. both are in illinois, US.
[03:00:52] <Dominus> so it is only 11 pm or so at your end?
[03:00:56] <hebble> 10pm, yes
[03:01:47] <Dominus> for Fingolfin and me it is allready 5am
[03:02:08] * Dominus wonders why Fingolfin told colourless that he is crazy before?
[03:02:09] <Fingolfin> yeah ;)
[03:02:18] <Fingolfin> because he was up at 7:46
[03:02:23] <hebble> wow. i thought you were in california from your whois. i don't know much about irc. ;)
[03:02:23] <Dominus> reminds me of
[03:02:36] <Dominus> KIRBEN!!!!
[03:02:57] <Dominus> hebble: the server doesnīt tell much
[03:03:08] <Dominus> you are from Florida according to this
[03:03:13] <hebble> heh
[03:03:36] <hebble> well, my hostname is somewhat more enlightening.
[03:03:55] <Dominus> actually right, now that I know it
[03:05:50] <Fingolfin> weird
[03:06:02] <Fingolfin> I was dragging & droping the Blacksword a lot
[03:06:07] <Fingolfin> suddenly, it was gone
[03:06:13] <Dominus> he he
[03:06:14] <Fingolfin> and the avatar turned into a black male!
[03:06:20] <Fingolfin> weird
[03:06:23] <Dominus> I know why but I wonīt tell you
[03:06:44] <Dominus> I had this happen to me once with turning into a black
[03:06:50] <Dominus> donīt know why though
[03:07:07] <Fingolfin> "I know why" - "donīt know why though"
[03:07:09] <Fingolfin> ha
[03:07:11] <Dominus> but drag&drop could have left the sword on the roof
[03:07:49] <Fingolfin> ok, this happens:
[03:07:50] <hebble> i dunno, looking at that paperdoll, this almost sounds like a perverse easter egg.
[03:07:57] <Fingolfin> you start dragging the bsword
[03:08:14] <Fingolfin> 2) it gets for the duration of the drag removed from the actor/npc
[03:08:27] <Dominus> where are you in the game?
[03:08:36] <Fingolfin> 3) when it gets removed like this, an usecode sequence is started -> probably with the goal to let the demon speak
[03:08:59] <Fingolfin> 4) this sequence calls the close_all_gumps intrinisce, besides others
[03:09:01] <Fingolfin> I am in SI
[03:11:21] <Dominus> btw, when you have it shouldered (remove it, open up inventory move it to the shoulder spot) it doesnīt close all the gumps
[03:11:52] <Fingolfin> yeah
[03:11:59] <Fingolfin> but when you then ready it, closes them again
[03:12:11] <Fingolfin> it only happens when you chante the "readied" flag
[03:12:17] <Fingolfin> <sic>
[03:12:20] <Dominus> actually only when moving it from or to the hands
[03:12:28] <Fingolfin> what I say
[03:12:31] <Dominus> :-)
[03:14:01] <Fingolfin> bsword vanished again
[03:14:28] <Dominus> are you in the open?
[03:15:16] <Dominus> or still at my favorite bridge crash save?
[03:16:16] <Fingolfin> btw, I just see I broke the exult.cfg code
[03:16:23] <Fingolfin> look at your exult.cfg file...
[03:16:40] <Dominus> I noticed earlier but forgot
[03:16:40] <hebble> heh heh
[03:16:53] <Dominus> everytime you load exult another config is added
[03:17:00] <hebble> it seems to still work tho
[03:17:06] <Dominus> configconfigconfigconfigconfigconfigconfigconfigconfigconfigconfigconfigconfigconfig
[03:17:44] <Dominus> Fingolfin: anything else you broke?
[03:17:52] <Dominus> :-)
[03:18:04] <Fingolfin> sure, but I won't tell you what it is ;)
[03:18:22] * Dominus experiences Deja-vu
[03:19:07] <Dominus> hmm, Kirben must be really gone, he didnīt even compile a new snapshot
[03:19:09] <Fingolfin> luckily it is easy to fix that
[03:19:34] <Fingolfin> but all ppl using the current CVS will have messes up their config files :(
[03:19:55] <Fingolfin> hm, it gets lighter outside
[03:20:09] <Dominus> hehe
[03:20:20] <Dominus> I notice, Iīm facing the window
[03:21:20] <Dominus> maybe write to the mailing list and make a note to the forum!
[03:21:58] <Dominus> "besides me sending you tons of cvs-cp,,it mails I also broke the exult.cfg file"
[03:22:22] <Dominus> cvs-cp=cvs-committ-mails
[03:22:26] <Fingolfin> note to the forum?
[03:22:42] <Dominus> maybe, some (only few use the CVS
[03:23:00] <Dominus> but actually that could just confuse them
[03:23:26] <Dominus> you would think that people using the CVS would read the changelog actually, right?
[03:23:59] * Dominus realizes that he writes nonsense now that it is so early
[03:24:44] * Dominus fell asleep on the keyboard and drooled into it, now everything is messed up
[03:25:34] <Fingolfin> he
[03:26:12] * Dominus imagines people using the lates CVS and not updating for a while and only relizing that there is something wrong with the exult.cfg file until it ihas grown bigger than the disc space
[03:26:45] <Dominus> :-)
[03:27:27] <Dominus> "removed annoying unneeded output" what output?
[03:28:26] <Fingolfin> to stdout/stderr
[03:28:41] <Fingolfin> it annoys me if I get 2500 lines of crappy debug output
[03:28:46] <Fingolfin> that *nobody* needs
[03:29:02] <Fingolfin> if somebody needs to debug that particual piece of code, he can change one line to turn it back on
[03:29:30] <Fingolfin> email sent
[03:30:19] <Dominus> okay
[03:32:37] <Dominus> have you changed the open inventry behaviour?
[03:33:33] <Dominus> not always opening Avatar gump by default?
[03:33:59] <Fingolfin> oh not yet
[03:34:12] <Dominus> getting late, huh?
[03:34:20] <Dominus> :-)
[03:35:29] <Fingolfin> nope
[03:35:31] <Fingolfin> getting early
[03:36:17] <Dominus> well only two more hours then you are like colourless :-)
[03:36:28] <Fingolfin> grrrr
[03:36:48] <Dominus> nänänä, Fingolfin is like Colourless
[03:36:54] <Dominus> nänänä, Fingolfin is like Colourless
[03:37:06] <Fingolfin> lol
[03:38:29] <Kirben> I"m back
[03:38:39] <Dominus> welcome back
[03:38:55] <Dominus> can you check this bug out?
[03:39:07] <Dominus> the one I sent you the link of
[03:39:20] <Kirben> Dominus: Reproducing that one won't be easy here, I have not evne started an SI game with Exult.
[03:39:36] <Dominus> there is a savegame attached
[03:39:47] <Dominus> to the bug report
[03:40:12] <Dominus> if you donīt mind
[03:40:13] <Kirben> OK I didn't noticed, will check as soon as current cvs compiles.
[03:40:28] <Dominus> itīs good you didnīt earlier
[03:40:54] <hebble> Dominus, do you remember the current status of the pickpocket gump problem?
[03:41:07] * Dominus whispers to Kirben: Fingolfin was quite active today...
[03:41:36] <Fingolfin> why, current cvs is fine, where's the problem?
[03:41:47] <Fingolfin> nobody cares about the last 12 hours, right? ;)
[03:42:04] <Dominus> hebble: Fingolfin fixed that in current CVS
[03:42:10] <hebble> awesome.
[03:42:56] * Dominus apologizes to Fingolfin: You did well today (in the last couple of hours at least)
[03:43:05] <Fingolfin> he
[03:43:36] * Dominus feels like one of the stooges today
[03:44:34] <hebble> i think there may be a problem with the code which has the avatar automatically opening and closing doors. namely, that he can sometimes do this with a locked door.
[03:44:56] <Dominus> I think with those he is supposed to
[03:45:05] <hebble> but i don't have the key
[03:45:16] <Dominus> to what are you referring specifically
[03:45:17] <Dominus> ?
[03:45:28] <Dominus> in BG I assume
[03:46:33] * Dominus canīt remember any auto-openeing in BG, though
[03:46:36] <hebble> it was in SI, but probably both. 'automatically' meaning you walk up to the door and then the avatar opens it, walks through, then closes it. not during a plot sequence or anything.
[03:46:51] <hebble> i think it was added recently
[03:47:12] <Dominus> at which point in SI did this happen to you
[03:47:12] <Dominus> ?
[03:47:45] <hebble> hold on, trying to find a reproduction
[03:47:47] <Dominus> the auto openeing does in fact refer to plot sequences
[03:48:19] <hebble> for instance, in bg, it just happened with the east door of the mint, which to my knowledge can never be unlocked.
[03:48:32] <Dominus> like knightīs test or something else later, that I donīt want to spoil for you
[03:48:49] <Dominus> how did this happen?
[03:48:55] <Dominus> what did you do?
[03:49:11] <hebble> i walked up to the door to the mint and kept walking. try it.
[03:49:55] <Dominus> hi hi, funny
[03:50:02] <Dominus> you are right
[03:50:31] <hebble> shall i file the bug? :)
[03:50:53] <Dominus> yes please do!
[03:51:04] <Dominus> that one is pretty funny actually
[03:51:35] <hebble> yeah, that could be Bad for people who want to play through, if they haven't before. they might think the game is much easier.
[03:54:24] <Dominus> you can add that this happens with all locked doors
[03:54:33] <hebble> can i call it a crash bug? it's kinda a plot-crasher
[03:54:39] <Dominus> nope
[03:54:52] <Dominus> itīs neaither a crash nor a plot stopper
[03:55:15] <hebble> what then, cosmetic/interface?
[03:55:16] <Dominus> just call it sth like "superthief"
[03:55:20] <Dominus> :-)
[03:55:47] <Dominus> you donīt have to file it that thoroughly I think
[03:56:46] <Dominus> Jeff will not like this :-)
[03:57:10] <Dominus> I think he put in a lot of work to make the auto-door opening work
[03:57:30] <hebble> it is a good idea, no one's disputing that.
[03:58:15] <Dominus> itīs just that he has to fine tune it that he will find frustrating
[03:58:42] <Dominus> the same thing with the teleporter bug we found earlier
[03:59:05] <Dominus> he just fixed this recently to make a plot sequence work
[03:59:25] <Dominus> it is good you found this
[03:59:28] <hebble> [this=teleport, or this=auto-door]?
[03:59:42] <Dominus> actually both
[03:59:53] <hebble> and to think, i almost decided to let you guys go to sleep. :)
[04:01:04] <hebble> the "SUBMIT" is taking forever on sourceforge
[04:01:29] <Dominus> this (door) is one of those bugs that could have gone unnoticed for a long time, and when someone would have found it it might have taken some time to remember what was done back then
[04:01:42] <Dominus> you didnīt submit a savegame, did you?
[04:01:49] <Dominus> (no need for that bug)
[04:04:10] <Dominus> hmm, no bug yet
[04:06:53] * Dominus nudges Fingolfin
[04:07:05] <Dominus> hey donīt fall asleep here
[04:07:07] <-- hebble has left IRC (Ping timeout for hebble[c1577942-b.chmpgn1.il.home.com])
[04:07:10] <Fingolfin> hm
[04:07:13] <Fingolfin> sund rose
[04:07:16] <Fingolfin> sun even
[04:07:21] <Fingolfin> I almost got this stats thing working
[04:07:26] <Dominus> ah
[04:07:34] <Fingolfin> one...more....line...of....code...must...do....now...
[04:07:46] <Dominus> :-)
[04:11:08] <Fingolfin> what should "i" do when all inventories are open?
[04:11:12] <Fingolfin> cycle through them?
[04:11:27] <Dominus> yep, like it does now, I think
[04:13:06] <Dominus> hmmm, Fingolfin, donīt like to tell you this, but check the homepage
[04:13:11] <Dominus> counters
[04:13:24] <Fingolfin> counters?
[04:13:36] <Fingolfin> GRRRRRRRRR
[04:13:38] <Fingolfin> DAMN
[04:13:50] <Fingolfin> I won't fix those now, I have to go to bed
[04:13:50] <Fingolfin> sigh
[04:17:28] <Dominus> Fingolfin: and the download page doesnīt automatically update the file date/time (i think it should, right?)
[04:17:29] --> hebble has joined #exult
[04:17:34] <Fingolfin> working now
[04:17:49] <Fingolfin> don't ask me this now I donŋt know ;)
[04:18:04] <hebble> hi all, i just had to reboot, Linux locked up on me. !
[04:18:10] <Fingolfin> it should...
[04:18:11] <Fingolfin> hm
[04:18:26] <Dominus> i know, just to tell you so you may remember this when you wake up
[04:18:36] <Fingolfin> dominus: I need to ssh there and see what kirben is doing with the files... maybe I use creation time not mod time or sometihing
[04:18:37] <Dominus> hebble, wb
[04:18:38] <Fingolfin> he
[04:18:46] <Fingolfin> oh damn, I only changed inventory not stats
[04:19:21] <Dominus> Fingolfin: maybe get some sleep before doing more?
[04:19:22] <Fingolfin> ah
[04:19:24] <Fingolfin> it is easier
[04:19:43] <hebble> so dom, what did i miss?
[04:20:03] <Dominus> not much, some problem with the homepage
[04:20:10] <Dominus> ?logs
[04:20:10] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php3
[04:20:26] <-- hebble has left IRC (Read error to hebble[c1577942-b.chmpgn1.il.home.com]: EOF from client)
[04:20:36] --> hebble has joined #exult
[04:20:47] <Dominus> ops, I meant him to look at the logs not to sign off
[04:20:51] <hebble> my computer is behaving strangely, hmm
[04:21:12] <Dominus> did you get my reference to the log?
[04:21:17] <hebble> yeah.
[04:23:04] <Dominus> Kirben: when you do check out this bug, you have to talk to this gargoyle and choose those answers (numbered as you can use those): 1,4,2,6,1! Then the gargoyle uses the lever to lower the drawbridge - there it crashes for me
[04:24:18] <hebble> auto-open bug finally entered.
[04:24:26] <Dominus> :-)
[04:24:37] <Fingolfin> changes commited, I don't care if I broke CVS, I go to bed *NOW*
[04:24:41] <Fingolfin> hope you have fun
[04:24:51] <Fingolfin> sun is up, mom will get up in half an hour, sigh
[04:24:51] <Dominus> Iīm leaving as well
[04:24:53] <hebble> good night
[04:24:56] <Fingolfin> cya
[04:24:57] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC (42)
[04:25:00] <Dominus> bye
[04:25:07] <hebble> bye
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[08:36:40] <hebble> Kirben, is Erstam's jawbone supposed to be hard to find in his storeroom?
[08:37:23] <Kirben> I don't know, have not played through Serpent Isle before.
[08:37:38] <hebble> oh. thanks anyway.
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[08:44:52] <hebble> hi nadir. have you played through SI?
[08:46:00] <Nadir> in the original yes. With Exult it's still not possible afaik. I'm quite far in, though
[08:47:08] <Nadir> I've recovered Gwenno's body, and I'm on my way to the Wall of Lights
[08:47:35] <hebble> i'm looking for the jawbone in erstam's storage room, and i don't see it. is it supposed to be hard to find?
[08:47:52] <Nadir> no it should be visible even from outside (transparent roof)
[08:48:06] <hebble> hmm
[08:50:24] <Kirben> How much of SI left to go for Exult ?
[08:52:17] <hebble> (... and thanks to the miracle of the map editor, i now have the jawbone i'm supposed to have anyway...)
[08:53:11] <Nadir> kirben: I guess 1/3 to go. But it's impossible to tell, as fixing a bug in one place usually uncovers bugs somewhere else
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[08:54:36] <Euan-> hello
[08:54:40] <Nadir> hi
[08:55:04] <Nadir> Kirben: snapshots ?
[08:55:14] <Kirben> what about them ?
[08:55:20] <Euan-> just thought i'd pop in to say hello, and thanks for exult (cliche)
[08:55:22] <Euan-> hehe
[08:55:26] <Kirben> just about to update again now.
[08:55:48] <Nadir> kirben: good :)
[08:55:52] <Nadir> euan: thanks
[08:56:07] <Euan-> you deserve it
[08:57:02] <Euan-> i was just wondering, what sort of speed should i expect from a p200 compaq running the win32 version of exult?
[08:57:23] <Euan-> i get great speed on my p100 linux box with 32mb of ram
[08:57:32] <Euan-> but on the compaq, its sadly lacking
[08:57:43] <Euan-> (in speed, that is)
[08:58:38] <Nadir> heh. Are you using released alpha or snapshot?
[08:58:57] <Euan-> the alpha binary
[08:59:15] <Euan-> v.93 alpha 4
[08:59:17] <Nadir> what scaler ?
[08:59:26] <Euan-> scaler?
[08:59:30] <Kirben> Is really useful having auto time/date on snapshots, I can now do as many updates as I want daily :) This will be fourth today.
[08:59:47] <hebble> "scaler?" = "the default one."
[08:59:55] <Euan-> hehe
[08:59:59] <Nadir> That's what I guessed ! :)
[09:00:07] <Euan-> what is a scaler, exactly?
[09:00:11] <Nadir> Ok, get the latest snapshot in a few minutes.
[09:00:49] <Nadir> scaler is the algorithm which produces a 640x400 image from a 320x200 (original U7 size). There are a few ways of doing this (Exult has 5)
[09:01:02] <Euan-> ahh, alright then
[09:01:04] <Nadir> When you start Exult, choose Setup
[09:01:11] <Euan-> well, yes, the default one is what i'm using
[09:01:16] <Nadir> 2xSaI
[09:01:21] <Kirben> ok updated snapshots are all online
[09:01:32] <Euan-> Kirben: wow, you are victorian, so am i
[09:01:52] <Nadir> The snapshots have good speed improvements wrt scalers. Get one
[09:02:08] <Kirben> Yes I'm in Victoria too.
[09:02:10] <Euan-> its not very often that australians are involved in projects i'm interested in
[09:02:16] <Euan-> let alone victorians
[09:05:26] <Nadir> Kirben, Colourless, Dancer, Patrick, Coder Infidel are all on the team and all from OZ
[09:06:27] <Euan-> oooh
[09:06:30] <Euan-> i had no idea
[09:06:46] <Kirben> Is Coder Infidel still working on project ? have not seen him in mailing lists for long time.
[09:08:40] <Kirben> He was the one that originally made all these mingw build snapshots possible.
[09:10:16] <Euan-> well, i have the latest win32 snapshot, i'll give it a try
[09:10:23] <Euan-> thanks alot
[09:10:25] <Euan-> bye
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[09:17:32] <Nadir> Infidel disappeared a while ago. He did contribute lots of useful stuff wrt weapons and armours. Check the credits
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[10:39:31] <Nadir> Kirben: are you there ?
[10:39:37] <Kirben> yes
[10:39:44] <Nadir> what scaler do you use ?
[10:39:57] <Kirben> supereagle
[10:41:20] <Nadir> does it work with latest snapshot ? All scalers except point/interlaced crash on startup for me
[10:41:35] <Nadir> (Linux/x86 of course :)
[10:43:51] <Kirben> Current Exult CVS works ok here with 320 x 200 x 2 SuperEagle
[10:44:02] <Kirben> oops wait
[10:45:01] <Kirben> no still works
[10:46:09] <Nadir> damn
[10:50:28] <Kirben> hmm are there still some rendering problems ? http://members.optushome.com.au/veemon/pic.jpg
[10:51:24] <Kirben> That is from dominiks saved game
[10:52:09] <Nadir> yes, I've noticed those at times
[10:52:59] <Nadir> we need colourless for that
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[10:55:36] <Kirben> Interesting, if I teleport over blank black section it displays correctly.
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[10:59:12] <Kirben> Exult thinks that area is a wall
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[11:38:02] <Colourless> hi
[11:39:26] <Kirben> Hi Colourless
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[11:44:49] <Fingolfin> hi
[11:45:17] <Colourless> hi
[11:59:42] <Colourless> have you recieved my mail commenting on the idea to assume all lava is in dungeons?
[12:00:39] <Fingolfin> yeah
[12:00:51] <Fingolfin> I can't comment on your comment, as I don't know what exactly is going wrong ehre ;)
[12:00:59] <Colourless> odd, i haven't got it myself
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[12:01:49] <Nadir> b
[12:02:12] <Nadir> I've received that mail
[12:02:42] <Fingolfin> I'll add these two to exult_constants.h :
[12:02:43] <Fingolfin> #define FORGET_OBJECT(x) do { delete x; x = 0; } while(0)
[12:02:43] <Fingolfin> #define FORGET_ARRAY(x) do { delete [] x; x = 0; } while(0)
[12:02:53] <Kirben> Exult seems to think that section of lava is a wall for some odd reason.
[12:03:13] <Fingolfin> they should be used instead of pure delete / delete [] in the future where appropriate
[12:03:59] <Kirben> if you teleport over the spot it displays fine.
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[12:13:55] <Kirben> if that is any help...
[12:15:12] <Kirben> Anyone know about mailing list system at sourceforge ?
[12:15:55] <Nadir> why ?
[12:17:24] <Kirben> Well on another project I help out on we created a mailing list but it wants a password even though none was set.
[12:17:40] <Kirben> http://sourceforge.net/projects/windrop/
[12:18:29] <Kirben> I'm just wondering if sourceforge use some kind of default password for new mailing lists
[12:19:06] <Kirben> I can't find any good docs at sourceforge for the lists sections.
[12:19:09] <Nadir> The software is mailman
[12:19:19] <Nadir> X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.5
[12:20:26] <Kirben> I have already checked out http://www.list.org/ too
[12:24:05] <Kirben> oh well, I hope sourceforge answer our support request soon.
[12:46:29] <Kirben> Could someone add slightly updated makefile.studio.cygiwn to cvs if I dcc ?
[12:46:38] <Kirben> oops make that makefile.studio.mingw
[12:47:10] <Nadir> why can't you dcc ?
[12:47:15] <Nadir> s/dcc/cvs/ ^
[12:48:03] <Kirben> Last I tried to add manually, I kept getting rejected login
[12:48:13] <Nadir> ?
[12:48:19] <Nadir> send it over then
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[12:50:49] <Dominus> hi guys
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[12:51:06] <Dominus> Kirben: what Os do you use?
[12:51:09] <Colourless> hi
[12:51:11] <Dominus> nooo
[12:51:26] <Dominus> Colourless: what OS do you use?
[12:51:37] <Nadir> Colourless: win32
[12:51:38] <Colourless> Win2k
[12:51:50] <Dominus> can you try out http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=447114&group_id=2335&atid=102335
[12:52:02] <Dominus> with W2k it crashes, with WinME it doesnīt
[12:52:05] <Colourless> tried: crashes
[12:52:21] <Dominus> W2k memeory crash then?
[12:52:47] <Dominus> Colourless: Iīm so gratefull it doesnīt only happen to me
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[12:53:22] <Dominus> hi Kirben
[12:53:29] <Colourless> I really don't know what exactly the problem is. I wouldn't think it's Win2k specific.
[12:53:40] <Colourless> Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't
[12:53:43] <Kirben> Hi
[12:53:57] <Dominus> but itīs working for everyone else and it definetely works for me in Win9x
[12:54:13] <Dominus> Kirben: I assume you are using Win9x, right?
[12:54:21] <Kirben> Acutally I'm using Win2K too
[12:54:37] <Dominus> but you tested this bug I sent with Win9x?
[12:55:15] <Kirben> But if it was caused by memory leak I doubt I would have problem, 512MB RAM on this system.
[12:55:27] <Kirben> no only Windows 2000 on the system.
[12:56:20] <Dominus> hm, okay, strange memory leak then perhaps as it always happens for me in W2k but not in WinME. Do you have SP1 or SP2?
[12:56:28] <Kirben> SP2
[12:56:47] <Dominus> same as me, only I have fewer RAM (256)
[12:57:13] <Kirben> Although if it is a memory leak it should be worse in Win9x/ME then Win2K.
[12:57:18] <Colourless> I don't have either Service Pack and have 320 MB of ram.
[12:57:33] <Dominus> What is going on then?
[12:57:56] <Colourless> It's not a memory leak i can tell that
[13:01:07] <Colourless> the problems are occuring in Patrol_schedule::now_what
[13:01:44] <Colourless> the paths game_object_vector appears to be uninitialized
[13:02:44] <Colourless> paths.size() returns a value of about 2 billion
[13:09:53] <Nadir> where should that be initialized ? My guess is that W2K is less lenient on bugs such as these and (rightly) crashes.
[13:11:59] <Colourless> in the constructor
[13:16:19] * Colourless thinks he has found the problem
[13:16:33] <Dominus> go go go go!!!
[13:16:55] <Colourless> Schedule object is gets deleted while it's still being used
[13:17:22] <Colourless> remove 'is' from that sentence
[13:36:55] <Colourless> dom: i've reopened the bug
[13:37:04] <Dominus> cool, thx
[13:46:07] * Colourless thinks "objects deleted while in use" bugs are quite possibly Exult's biggest problem
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[13:52:34] <Dominus> ok, thanks for sorting this out for me (was quite puzzled why MY savegame works on everyones system but mine)
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[13:58:17] <Dominus> Have to go now. If fingolfin shows up again, plz tell him thathis inventory/stats gump fix doesnīt work at all as intended (he wanted to make sure that when you press i or z the avatars gump pops up first)
[13:58:38] <Colourless> heh
[13:58:44] <Colourless> i will
[13:58:49] <Dominus> bye
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[13:58:55] <Colourless> cya
[14:09:12] <Nadir> Colourless: I've committed some stuff which adds snprintf for platforms which don't have it. I guess win32 needs a -DHAVE_SNPRINTF
[14:09:48] <Colourless> yeah
[14:11:13] <Nadir> Are you working on a fix for that "deleted-object" bug ?
[14:11:55] <Colourless> no, I'm not.
[14:12:45] <Colourless> though I've got an idea of how to fix it
[14:14:52] <Nadir> These deleted objects problems may also be what's causing corrupted savegames
[14:15:17] <Colourless> could be
[14:28:32] <Nadir> I'm getting crashes with non-point/interlaced scalers
[14:28:56] <Colourless> where?
[14:29:34] <Nadir> #0 0x4005b473 in _Hermes_X86_CPU () at eval.c:41
[14:29:40] <Nadir> #1 0x00000000 in __strtol_internal (nptr=0x8214348 "", endptr=0x0, base=255,
[14:29:40] <Nadir> group=1073919422)
[14:30:17] <Nadir> that's the entire backtrace...
[14:30:42] <Colourless> that would seem somewhat irrelevant
[14:30:52] <Colourless> and have nothing to do with scalers
[14:30:57] <Colourless> or at least directly
[14:33:42] <Nadir> when I run using a memory debugger, it still crashes there
[14:42:22] <Nadir> It crashes in SDL_UpdateRect in Image_window::show_scaled8to32_x (where x={bilinear, SuperEagle, 2xSaI})
[14:43:29] <Colourless> have you checked the actual update rect itself to see if it's not off screen?
[14:44:17] <Nadir> nope
[14:48:02] <Nadir> It's invoking SDL_UpdateRect(scaled_surface, 0, 0, 640, 400)
[14:49:33] <Colourless> that shouldn't be a problem then
[14:49:51] <Colourless> could it be sdl?
[14:50:01] <Nadir> it is the win->show() invoked by the first occurence of pal.fade_in() invoked by ExultMenu::run()
[14:50:33] <Nadir> it worked the other day... I'll recompile SDL
[14:51:22] * Nadir doubts that will change anything though...
[15:00:44] * Nadir was right
[15:20:27] <Colourless> i've got no problems with the scalers here
[15:20:45] <Nadir> odd
[15:26:24] <Nadir> Come to think of it I've been using Point lately, and after I upgraded to SDL 1.2.2 I hadn't tried the other scalers. I'll revert to 1.2.1
[15:33:42] <Nadir> still crashes
[15:33:45] <Nadir> argh
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[15:41:08] <Nadir> hi
[15:41:09] <wjp> hi
[15:41:13] <Colourless> hi
[15:41:34] <Nadir> wjp: what scaler do you use ?
[15:41:42] <wjp> point, usually
[15:42:09] <Nadir> read the logs and the problems I've been having...
[15:42:52] <wjp> hmm, Dominus & Fingolfin were here until 6:30 am !?
[15:43:02] <Nadir> yes:)
[15:43:55] <Colourless> almost as bad as me :)
[15:44:15] <wjp> :-)
[15:44:27] * wjp has a _lot_ of mail to read
[15:44:53] <wjp> hmm, annoying that Jeff's mail appear out-of-order
[15:45:18] <Nadir> bbl (I'm installing XFree86 4.1.0)
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[15:52:32] <Nadir> b
[15:52:58] <Colourless> wb
[15:53:15] <Nadir> wjp: did you read about my problem ?
[15:53:47] <wjp> I was just catching up on my mail
[15:55:15] <wjp> hmm, interesting
[15:55:31] <wjp> are point/interlaced handled different internally?
[15:56:08] <Colourless> yes
[15:56:27] <Colourless> point and interlaced use 8 bit surfaces
[15:56:33] <Colourless> the others dont
[15:56:45] <Nadir> well, that's a start
[15:57:10] <wjp> how often does it crash?
[15:58:11] <Nadir> immediately. always
[15:58:34] <wjp> hmm, that should help in tracking it down
[15:58:52] <Nadir> I've tried ElectricFence, memprof, njamd.... no help from them
[15:58:58] <wjp> are you using SDL 1.2.2 or SDL cvs?
[15:59:28] <Nadir> was using 1.2.2. Then reverted to 1.2.1
[15:59:35] <wjp> still crashes?
[15:59:43] <Nadir> yep
[16:00:01] <wjp> weird... I'm using 1.2.1 without any problems
[16:00:14] <wjp> how many bpp is X running?
[16:01:37] <Nadir> 16
[16:02:08] <Nadir> I've just upgraded to XFree86 4.1.0 and it's much snappier on my Mach64
[16:02:22] <wjp> 24 bpp here
[16:02:38] <Nadir> (which makes exult crash faster too)
[16:02:52] <Colourless> 32 here
[16:03:09] <wjp> what makes exult crash faster? a faster X or 24 bpp?
[16:03:35] <Nadir> X
[16:03:39] <wjp> k
[16:03:41] <Nadir> :)
[16:04:11] <wjp> hmm, X 4.1.0... I wonder if I should try it
[16:04:46] <wjp> hey, RH already has .rpm's for it
[16:04:47] <Nadir> Still no DRI for Mach64
[16:04:59] <Nadir> RH 7.2 beta
[16:05:05] <Nadir> (and rawhide)
[16:05:53] <wjp> hey! We got a post from Ken Demarest on the forum!
[16:06:00] <wjp> (U7 lead programmer)
[16:06:58] <Nadir> It never actually cross my mind that Tseramed was Demarest backwards !!!
[16:07:07] <Nadir> s/cross/crossed/
[16:07:09] <wjp> lol... so it is :-)
[16:07:11] <Colourless> heh, me neither
[16:07:20] <wjp> never noticed that either
[16:07:50] <Nadir> cool, lb, ken, who's next ?
[16:07:51] <Colourless> i remember a conversation here in #exult one time where we were attempting to work out how to say Tseramed
[16:08:12] <Nadir> As it's spelt ?
[16:08:23] <Nadir> accent on the first e
[16:10:57] <Nadir> well, I'll look ati it tomorrow
[16:11:05] <Nadir> Bye guys
[16:11:11] <wjp> bye
[16:11:13] <Colourless> cta
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[16:44:09] <wjp> you know... it really looks suspiciously like all mountain edges are at chunk edges
[16:44:39] <Colourless> yeah, i've noticed that before too
[16:45:04] <wjp> Jeff just mailed that he was pretty sure it's not true for BG, though
[16:46:10] <wjp> but I can't find any counter-examples
[16:46:13] <Colourless> i think BG might be the same
[16:47:43] <wjp> one thing thas still annoys me is those bright areas at cave entrances
[16:50:02] <Colourless> however, I don't think that dungeon was done per chunk, regardless of what it may appear. I say that because if you hack moved the mountains around in the original, the dungeons were only under the mountains
[16:50:35] <wjp> hmm, I see
[16:51:28] <Colourless> the easiest way to tell is to grab a bit of mountain and put it on something you can walk under.
[16:52:02] * wjp nods... ok
[16:52:29] <wjp> maybe we count too many shapes as 'mountain'
[16:52:38] <wjp> (the entrance, for instance)
[16:53:28] <Colourless> i don't think so
[16:53:52] <Colourless> though you could be right
[16:55:54] <wjp> hmm, looks like we already skip those
[16:57:15] <Colourless> i think the problem is actually that we are supposed to draw all the shapes bordering the dungeon
[16:57:37] <Colourless> i.e. there is a 1 tile border around the dungeon
[16:58:23] <Colourless> i've noticed a few other difference between exult and the original that could be explained by that property
[16:58:45] <wjp> how would drawing more shapes fix this?
[16:59:23] * Colourless will see if he can get a screenshot from the original
[17:00:38] * Colourless notices he is wrong
[17:01:19] <Colourless> ah ha! I've got it
[17:02:49] <Colourless> it's really simple as well. The area classed as a dungeon is not the tiles that the the mountain pieces are over, it's the actual area the the mountain piece is painted over
[17:03:01] <wjp> of course...
[17:03:05] <Colourless> it's a slight difference
[17:03:09] <wjp> ack... it's so obvious...
[17:04:26] <wjp> well, that perfectly explains why the bright areas are always to the top/left
[17:05:06] <Colourless> fixing exult to have the same behaviour isn't going to be the simplest of things to do
[17:05:45] <wjp> hmm... another dungeon rendering bug: monsters can sometimes causes things outside dungeons to be drawn
[17:06:45] <wjp> http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/dungeon.png
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[17:06:48] <wjp|dinner> bbl
[17:06:54] <Colourless> it looks like however that detection for when thte avatar is inside of a dungeon is done by tiles
[17:06:57] <Colourless> cya
[17:07:49] <Colourless> that picture is odd
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[17:23:34] <Fingolfin> hiya
[17:23:38] <Colourless> hi
[17:23:59] <Colourless> dom says to tell you that the changes you made to the gumps didn't work
[17:24:16] <Colourless> (as intended)
[17:25:07] <Colourless> dunno what he means by that
[17:25:20] <Fingolfin> hmm
[17:25:23] <Fingolfin> not sure...
[17:25:28] <Fingolfin> he should mail me stuff like this ;)
[17:25:37] <Fingolfin> he either means the change to 'z' and 'i'
[17:25:48] <Fingolfin> or the change to the item-dragging-from-stats-gump-bug
[17:26:13] <Colourless> here is what he said exactly
[17:26:15] <Colourless> [23:27] <Dominus> Have to go now. If fingolfin shows up again, plz tell him thathis inventory/stats gump fix doesnīt work at all as intended (he wanted to make sure that when you press i or z the avatars gump pops up first)
[17:26:31] <Fingolfin> hm ok
[17:26:42] <Fingolfin> maybe I forgot to commit one file?! I'll look into it
[17:26:58] <Colourless> i haven't seen any problems myself
[17:29:30] <Fingolfin> it worked for me fine yesterday.. the old scheme was not very intuitive, I changed it...
[17:30:04] <Fingolfin> ARGH
[17:30:10] <Fingolfin> and it seems I didn't commit the most important file
[17:30:13] <Fingolfin> sigh
[17:30:18] <Colourless> hehe
[17:30:27] <Colourless> and it was?
[17:31:35] <Fingolfin> in CVS now. The change was that if you now press 'z' twice, the stats gumps of avata and iolo (or so, depending on your party) pop up. if you close the avatar gump, and press Z again, then Shamino comes
[17:31:47] <Fingolfin> with my change, now the avatar gump pops up again
[17:31:57] <Fingolfin> if all gumps are open, it cycles through them
[17:32:18] <Fingolfin> this seems to be what Dominus and me find intuitive; the old behaviour always irritated me
[17:32:36] <Fingolfin> not sure how U7 did it, but then we do not have to stick to it in every detail
[17:35:55] --- wjp|dinner is now known as wjp
[17:36:01] <wjp> hi Max
[17:36:11] <Fingolfin> hi willem
[17:36:21] <Colourless> wb
[17:37:06] <Fingolfin> argh
[17:37:18] * Fingolfin goes fixing the snprintf problems on namespace std:: compliant compilers
[17:37:44] <Fingolfin> interesting; my compiler has troubles with bggame/sigame.cc when on highest optmization level; when I turn off optimization, then bggame.cc results in 115K code size; when I turn on only "dead code elimation", it goes down to 70K or so
[17:37:46] <Fingolfin> hmmm
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[17:49:54] <wjp> Colourless: any chance all dungeon shapes have lift 8 or 16?
[17:50:12] <wjp> oh, wait, there's no 16, right?
[17:51:19] <Colourless> wjp: nope, doesn't work like that
[17:52:24] <wjp> Fingolfin: you broke my compile again ;-)
[17:52:39] <Fingolfin> in keyactions.cc? how that?
[17:52:47] <wjp> keyactions.cc:252: no matching function for call to
[17:52:47] <wjp> `Gump_manager::find_gump (Actor *&, int &)'
[17:53:03] <Fingolfin> hu?
[17:53:27] <wjp> candidates are:
[17:53:31] <wjp> Gump *find_gump(int x, int y);
[17:53:34] <wjp> Gump *find_gump(Game_object *obj);
[17:53:38] <Fingolfin> wait a moment
[17:53:51] <Fingolfin> I don't understand, I commited all these yesterday..
[17:53:54] <Fingolfin> err, today at 6 AM
[17:54:10] <Fingolfin> <sigh>
[17:54:12] <wjp> that might explain somethings ;-)
[17:54:18] <wjp> s/s//
[17:54:22] <Fingolfin> I really don't get it, i did a full cvs commit yet three files are missing in it
[17:54:29] <Fingolfin> commited gump_manager
[17:54:32] <Fingolfin> try again
[17:57:12] <Fingolfin> any good reason why in bggame.cc, we are creating an ImageBuffer, dispose it, then create a new one *of the same size*
[17:57:25] <Fingolfin> and all the time we even use the same pointer variable, buffer
[17:57:37] <Fingolfin> to me it seems we only need to allocate it once and free it once, no?
[17:57:41] <wjp> Fingolfin: ok, works now
[17:58:10] <wjp> Fingolfin: line nr?
[18:00:47] * wjp can't find it
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[18:01:30] <nFingolfin> wtf
[18:01:30] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC (Ping timeout for Fingolfin[pD9E1C4C4.dip.t-dialin.net])
[18:01:51] <nFingolfin> grrr
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[18:02:05] <Fingolfin> foo
[18:02:07] <Fingolfin> bar
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[18:02:49] <Fingolfin> the counters are broken once more.....
[18:02:55] <wjp> again?!?
[18:03:28] <wjp> umm... where did the homepage go?
[18:03:30] <Fingolfin> yeah! and I really don't understand why
[18:03:33] <Fingolfin> hu?
[18:03:37] <wjp> oops... typo
[18:04:39] <Fingolfin> "<wjp> Fingolfin: line nr?" - what did you mean?
[18:04:51] <wjp> for that 'delete & re-allocate buffer'
[18:05:15] <Fingolfin> oh
[18:05:27] <Fingolfin> just search in bggame.c for "backup ="
[18:05:44] <Fingolfin> you will see we allocate the ImageBuffer, then deallocate it several times
[18:05:46] <wjp> yeah, I did that already
[18:05:49] <Fingolfin> oh wait
[18:05:55] * Fingolfin is stuid
[18:05:57] <wjp> with different sizes :-)
[18:06:00] <Fingolfin> we do it for different shapes
[18:06:02] <Fingolfin> aye
[18:06:02] <wjp> s != s != s ;-)
[18:06:03] <Fingolfin> ;)
[18:13:02] * wjp takes a look at Jeff's email
[18:13:07] * wjp takes another look
[18:13:24] * wjp is suddenly really curious what he's talking about
[18:14:01] * Colourless is curious too
[18:14:19] * Fingolfin is too
[18:14:32] <Fingolfin> wonder if we could get jeff to join #exult...
[18:14:45] <Fingolfin> ryan: how did we get exultbot to leave the channel again? ;))
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[18:16:21] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult, the open source Ultima 7 and U7 part 2 engine
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[18:20:36] <wjp> did we ever figure out what "occlude.dat" does?
[18:21:17] <Colourless> not that I know of
[18:21:17] <Fingolfin> no idea
[18:28:50] <Fingolfin> the speech in the BG intro is extremly low volume for me
[18:29:27] <Fingolfin> I have to turn up my speakers from the normal 90 to 150 to hear it in an understandable fashion; all other sounds at this level cause my ears to fall of :/
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[18:29:57] <Fingolfin> I guess this is not the case on other OS? if you tell me it works fine for you, I look for yet another mac os specific bug
[18:30:09] <Colourless> are you sure you are doing the 8 bit -> 16 bit conversion properly?
[18:30:25] <Fingolfin> that is what I am looking at at the moment
[18:32:34] <Colourless> have you tried checking what the Voice samples like in the games with the sound tester?
[18:32:49] <Fingolfin> fixed
[18:33:08] <Fingolfin> my first fix to the audio code was rendered useless & wrong by my second, correct fix ;)
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[18:39:25] <wjp> occlude.dat apparently has a bit set if the shape completely covers its base, or something like that
[18:39:34] <wjp> sounds like it's used for optimization of the renderer
[18:46:51] <Kefka> is screenshot taking done inside exult, or is it dependant on whats either built in to the OS or some 3rd party screenshot app?
[18:49:33] <wjp> which screenshots?
[18:49:57] * matt0 is checking out latest exult cvs
[18:50:38] <Kefka> ok basically, what my question is
[18:51:00] <Kefka> why are there screenshots in .gif format?
[18:51:05] <Kefka> .gif = evil
[18:51:08] <matt0> hehe
[18:51:26] <wjp> yeah, we're kind of planning to replace those screenshots soon
[18:51:33] <Fingolfin> hehe
[18:51:33] <Fingolfin> yeah
[18:51:39] <Fingolfin> all with png/jpf
[18:51:41] <Fingolfin> jpg
[18:51:41] <Fingolfin> even
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[18:51:50] <Kefka> ok
[18:52:24] <matt0> what's currently the fastest/best exult scaler?
[18:52:40] <wjp> fastest = interlaced, best depends on taste
[18:53:24] <Colourless> wjp: interesting about occlude.dat. I can well imagine how the would be an optimization
[18:53:29] <matt0> the interlaced one doubles the size, then interleaves black lines every other line?
[18:53:50] <wjp> Colourless: from u7tech.txt, btw :-)
[18:54:01] <Colourless> matt0: yes
[18:55:37] <Colourless> wjp: ah, ok. We use a very much brute force rendering method :)
[18:59:38] <wjp> ack... u7wizard uses assembly
[19:02:27] <Kefka> ah, thats another thing i was wondering, whats the downside of using assembly?
[19:03:09] <wjp> you lose portability, readability, writability, maintainability, and probably some other ity's
[19:03:12] <Colourless> system and compiler specific. Harder to program in. Not many debugging options
[19:03:54] <Kefka> hmm, that about covers it
[19:03:55] <Kefka> heh
[19:06:13] * wjp takes a look at U7Wizard's rendering order algorithm
[19:07:06] <wjp> uh oh... french comments
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[19:07:19] <Colourless> hehe
[19:07:22] <wjp> not many, luckily
[19:08:34] <wjp> any idea where our object-comparator function is?
[19:08:55] <Colourless> ????
[19:09:02] <wjp> for the rendering order
[19:09:52] <wjp> oh, found it
[19:10:04] <wjp> hmm, ours is a _lot_ more complex
[19:10:29] <wjp> 100 against 10 lines
[19:10:55] <Colourless> don't know if we have one. just look in gamerend.cc for all the rendering code
[19:11:28] <wjp> Game_object::lt()
[19:11:33] <wjp> (in objs.cc)
[19:16:07] <Colourless> that's quite a difference
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[19:18:40] <Colourless> Is the u7wizzard code more accurate than ours? Could you impliment their code in Exult?
[19:19:13] <wjp> probably; it's not really complex
[19:19:36] <wjp> (if I find out what the various variables mean)
[19:20:45] <wjp> they have lift, dz, x, y, dx, dy properties for the two objects
[19:21:24] <Colourless> dx,dy,dz you'd think are delta values
[19:22:54] <wjp> maybe size
[19:23:10] <Colourless> yeah, could be.
[19:23:21] <Colourless> d could be for dimentions
[19:24:05] <wjp> yeah, it's size
[19:24:13] <wjp> dx := getShapeSizeX(shapeID);
[19:24:24] <wjp> (it's written in Pascal, btw)
[19:24:33] <Colourless> yeah, I can tell :)
[19:25:25] <wjp> getShapeSizeX/Y/Z get their values from tfa.dat, apparently
[19:25:49] <Colourless> yeah, we do that already
[19:25:52] <Fingolfin|dinner> the only question in the end will be if the result is indeed better than exults ;)
[19:26:00] <wjp> not likely :-)
[19:26:12] <Colourless> should be faster though
[19:26:21] <Colourless> wellm you'd think so
[19:26:22] * Fingolfin|dinner doesn't have a speed problem ;)
[19:26:25] <Colourless> it's smaller
[19:26:34] <Colourless> well neither do i :)
[19:26:43] <Fingolfin|dinner> should the bg intro check the "speech" flag, like the SI intro does?
[19:27:24] <Colourless> it should do
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[19:28:42] <wjp> doesn't the Audio class do that already?
[19:28:56] <Colourless> it's for subtitles
[19:29:05] <wjp> oh, ok
[19:31:23] <hebble> hmm, i don't remember BG intro having subtitles when voice was on, but it does in exult
[19:31:57] <Colourless> that's because the original didn't have subtitle when voice was on
[19:32:25] <hebble> that's kinda what i'm saying
[19:32:43] <Fingolfin> I like subtitles, though..
[19:32:47] <Fingolfin> maybe we want an option
[19:32:52] <Fingolfin> "speech only, text only, both"
[19:33:00] <hebble> good idea
[19:34:30] <Colourless> yeah
[19:34:38] <Colourless> that's always a good option
[19:34:50] * wjp keeps tripping his fingers over these comparing rules
[19:36:54] <wjp> ok... now let's try it
[19:37:16] <wjp> umm... I think we can safely say ours is better
[19:37:35] <Colourless> what happened?
[19:37:40] <Colourless> screenshot?
[19:37:42] <wjp> very messy rendering
[19:38:01] * Colourless wants a screenshot
[19:38:07] <Fingolfin> he
[19:38:15] <wjp> hmm.. this may be a bit too much
[19:38:17] <Fingolfin> maybe you converted it wrongly? ;)
[19:38:20] * wjp checks for typos
[19:40:27] <wjp> http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/u7wizrender.png
[19:40:45] <wjp> either I'm seriously blind or this is seriously wrong
[19:41:22] <wjp> oh... wait a sec...
[19:41:30] <wjp> I'm returning the wrong values...
[19:41:45] <Colourless> it looks exactly backwards :)
[19:41:53] <wjp> no, not exactly...
[19:42:12] <Colourless> you are right. the trees are still infront of the walls
[19:42:38] <Colourless> glass counters are in about the right place
[19:43:13] <wjp> ok, this looks better
[19:43:34] <wjp> still not entirely right, though
[19:45:21] <wjp> ok, try the same URL now
[19:46:29] <Colourless> that's not right at all :)
[19:46:47] <wjp> I hadn't seen this place yet when I made that comment ;-)
[19:57:44] <Colourless> wjp: did you get the email from jeff
[19:57:59] <wjp> which one?
[19:58:11] <Colourless> you should know the one
[19:58:27] * wjp checks his various e-mail addresses
[19:59:33] <wjp> no... *sniff*
[20:00:40] <Colourless> ok, i'll tell him. i looks like he might have messed up your email address. it looks like it was sent to wpalenst@math.leidenuniv.nl but I'm not sure
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[20:01:49] <Fingolfin> jeff!!!!
[20:01:52] <wjp> hi there :-)
[20:01:53] <freedman> Hello!
[20:02:08] * wjp repeatedly checks mail at that address
[20:02:16] <wjp> again and again and again
[20:02:24] <freedman> I'll resend. Where to?
[20:02:24] <Fingolfin> hey, why don't I get email from jeff then? ;)
[20:02:25] <Colourless> jeff: wjp didn't get the email
[20:02:51] <Colourless> you forgot to put a comma between my address and wjp's
[20:02:54] <freedman> Max: What's your email?
[20:03:01] <Fingolfin> max@quendi.de
[20:04:31] <freedman> Okay, recent, including Max.
[20:04:43] * wjp starts checking email again
[20:04:48] <freedman> ^recent^resent
[20:04:54] <wjp> and again... and again ;-)
[20:05:26] <freedman> Funny, but I think I can improve the barge rotating code tonight:-)
[20:05:40] <Colourless> you don't say :)
[20:05:54] * wjp makes some wild guesses at the contents of that email
[20:07:08] <Fingolfin> woa
[20:07:14] <Fingolfin> better no discussion here
[20:07:20] <Fingolfin> as long as wittnesses are there ;)
[20:07:25] <freedman> It's hard not to. Also hard to concentrate on work.
[20:07:36] <Fingolfin> ayye
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[20:32:11] <Kefka> omg.. tech tv is talking about a glut in fiber optics and how a lot of fiber is going unused..
[20:32:32] <wjp> what's a 'glut' ?
[20:32:37] <Kefka> well, give me some of that bandwidth instead of capping my upstream at 128kbps
[20:32:44] <Kefka> glut = surplus
[20:32:51] <Kefka> usually in the extreme
[20:33:25] <Colourless> the optical fibres may not be in useful places
[20:35:11] <Kefka> well, i dunno.. as far as i am concerned, the whole rollout of fiber was screwed up
[20:36:14] <Kefka> i don't see why there is any reason to cap an upstream connection
[20:37:02] <wjp> my ISP seems to disagree :-)
[20:37:07] <Kefka> as does mine
[20:37:13] <Kefka> hey, if i pay $40 a month
[20:37:17] <Colourless> stop people running servers
[20:37:23] <Kefka> i want full 1.5 mbps down and up
[20:37:42] <Kefka> that implies running servers is a bad thing
[20:38:10] <Kefka> which it isn't
[20:38:37] <wjp> and if I promise I won't run a server ;-)
[20:38:48] <wjp> (which I really won't)
[20:39:30] <Kefka> another thing that irks me is dynamic ip address allocation and PPPoE
[20:39:42] <Kefka> in cases of broadband, i mean
[20:40:09] <Kefka> and if they whine that they don't have enough addresses, then its time for ipv6
[20:40:21] <Kefka> which should have been implemented years ago
[20:40:21] <wjp> might have the same reason (preventing servers)
[20:40:33] <chimera|wookin> 1.5 mbps down and up for only $40?
[20:40:38] <chimera|wookin> sounds like you might be a bit spoiled :)
[20:40:39] <Kefka> yes
[20:40:43] <Kefka> well
[20:40:50] <Kefka> $40 to a college kid is a lot
[20:41:26] <Kefka> i wish the government would just lay the lines
[20:41:27] <wjp> I don't think you'll get a discount based on being a student :-)
[20:41:37] * wjp wishes you would
[20:41:42] <chimera|wookin> hehe
[20:41:49] <chimera|wookin> I only get 640k/256k for $30 a month
[20:42:02] <wjp> 512/64 for $40
[20:42:10] <chimera|wookin> and the old days, having a 1.5 connection to your house was totally unheard of
[20:42:22] <chimera|wookin> hence my decision to use the adjective 'spoiled' hehe
[20:43:07] <Kefka> well, in the old days, wasn't 640K enough? :)
[20:43:14] <chimera|wookin> lol
[20:51:14] <Kefka> hmm... a tv tuner for $160
[20:51:23] <Kefka> for a computer monitor
[20:51:39] <Kefka> or i could buy a tv by itself for that much..
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[20:52:16] <Kefka> a portable dvd player for $700, or a laptop for $1100
[20:52:27] <Kefka> oh well..
[20:53:30] <Kefka> i think i need my daily dose of fuckedcompany
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[21:12:56] <Fingolfin> hrm
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[21:22:33] <TonyHoyt> Hello people. What's new?
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[21:23:06] <Fingolfin> a lot
[21:23:09] <Fingolfin> and nothing
[21:23:28] <Fingolfin> but CVS should compile at the moment, despite me commiting three files not so long ago ;)
[21:24:44] <TonyHoyt> Oh.. Well That's good I would assume :-)
[21:24:58] <TonyHoyt> Lots of little changes being put into place... Most quite nice :-)
[21:26:25] <Fingolfin> yeah... you don't know just how true that is
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[21:40:05] <TonyHoyt> How's the visual rendering engine holding out? I read something about displaying dungeon's correctly?
[21:40:36] <wjp> yeah, Ryan figured out another dungeon-rendering thing
[21:40:45] <Colourless> yeah
[21:40:51] <wjp> implementing it will be a bit hard, though
[21:42:01] <Colourless> if we only knew how origin did it
[21:42:32] <Fingolfin> we hope that we can improve rendering of dungeons and some other bits soon
[21:43:11] <TonyHoyt> Sounds cool.
[21:43:28] <TonyHoyt> No 'unknown' flags in datafiles that could a sign?
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[23:50:30] <Fingolfin> there seems to be no way to wait for a Midi file stop playing ATM, is there?
[23:50:54] <Fingolfin> sure you can call is_playing() on the midi player...
[23:50:55] <Colourless> no
[23:50:56] <Colourless> not really
[23:51:02] <Fingolfin> yeah
[23:51:17] <Fingolfin> should be in Audio, I'll add it (need it for better butterfly intro ;)
[23:52:30] <Fingolfin> I could get the midi player, and call is_playing on that; hm; or I add a clean function, is_music_playing
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[23:58:43] <realmz> Hello
[23:58:51] <Fingolfin> hi
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[23:59:50] <realmz> So, is it good if you play U7 SI and don't go by the person with the copy protection?