#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 6 Aug 2003 (GMT)

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[00:09:10] <Darke> From memory, ucc croaked when I tried it, otherwise it worked.
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[00:10:35] <Darke> Looks like someone's been getting it to work on an ultrasparc, maybe we should bug him for the changes to get it to work. *grin*
[00:11:07] <`daniel> :)
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[00:11:52] <`daniel> time to play a game
[00:11:53] <`daniel> gar
[00:11:54] <`daniel> cyas
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[00:15:57] <Fingolfin> wjp: it's late. shouldn't you go to bed?
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[00:16:33] <Fingolfin> that's a way to do it, too, yeah... =)
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[00:33:04] <wjp> time to go; g'night
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[01:14:25] <servus> My first original non-trivial shellscript!
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[01:34:44] <Zxcvb> will scale2x do anything if you are running exult on a zaurus (320x240 screen)?
[01:38:53] <Darke> It probably won't even work. x2 scaliers take the base resolution then multiply it by 2 to get the 'real' res. Unless zaraus can support 640x480, I'm pretty sure it won't work. *grin*
[01:44:17] <Zxcvb> does exult use scale3x or scale4x?
[01:44:45] <Zxcvb> both should be included within scale2x
[01:45:08] <Darke> One of the scalers supports x3 and x4, but most only support x2.
[01:45:30] <Zxcvb> Dark: no, scale2x if using his implementation, also supports 3x and 4x
[01:46:00] <Zxcvb> Dark: on scale2x.sourceforge.net, he shows how 3x and 4x are done
[01:50:05] <Darke> Fair enough. I've never even looked at the scalar code, I just know how it works user-wise. *grin*
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[01:55:08] <Zxcvb_> back
[01:55:25] <Zxcvb_> Darke: does exult use scale3x and scale4x
[01:56:12] <Darke> I wouldn't have a clue. *grin* I don't think so though, from memory there's a feature in the tracker talking about something like adding support for those.
[01:56:56] <Zxcvb_> scale4x is just scale2x twice
[01:57:40] <Zxcvb_> scale2x looks nice on a 1024x768 LCD screen
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[01:59:15] <Zxcvb_> Darke: any idea what would cause a wierd messup in serpent isle just before thoxa?
[01:59:52] <Zxcvb_> Darke: it can be fixed by going southeast until the glitch passes, then go back up north to get the hourglass and have what's his name join
[02:04:18] <Darke> Not a clue sorry.
[02:04:33] <Darke> Probably because I'm the only exult dev who's never played Serpent Isle. *grin*
[02:05:03] <Zxcvb_> I see it is at 1.1 beta
[02:06:08] <Darke> We've had a couple of odd memory corruption bugs peak up with the latest beta, from memory. Have you submitted a savegame before this occurs to the bug tracker? Someone hopefully who knows about it might find it there. *grin*
[02:06:44] <Zxcvb_> Darke: probably need a save game when it just starts
[02:06:57] <Zxcvb_> Darke: it hasn't happened the last time I started
[02:07:10] <Zxcvb_> Darke: mabye you have to step in just the right place?
[02:07:42] <Darke> Unfortunately it might be the case.
[02:08:36] <Zxcvb_> movement has a few issues
[02:09:11] <Zxcvb_> the workaround is to enable cheats, enable hackmover, move the avatar (and sometimes party members) a short distance off the object, disable hackmover, and disable cheats
[02:09:50] <Zxcvb_> similar to having to use the fly (and no clipping) cheat in ultima 9 to get "unstuck"
[02:10:09] <Darke> Heh.
[02:10:14] <Zxcvb_> just avoid any trigger areas, and only go the shortest distance necessary
[02:12:42] <Zxcvb_> Darke: do you play ultima 7 part 1?
[02:13:23] <Darke> Yup.
[02:13:56] <Zxcvb_> Darke: have you tried past posting (placing a bet on the wheel after it has started to spin)
[02:14:13] <Zxcvb_> Darke: (just don't get caught)
[02:15:34] <Darke> Don't think so. I mostly went around being a good avatar. *grin*
[02:15:59] <Zxcvb_> Darke: just like in a real casino, if you get caught you are in trouble
[02:16:23] <Zxcvb_> Darke: in serpent isle, you can duplicate coins with a level 2 spell
[02:16:59] <Zxcvb_> in ultima 6, you animate magic armor, then cast clone and kill the clones and original ones
[02:17:12] <Zxcvb_> each magic armor is worth 200 gold or so to sell
[02:17:28] <Zxcvb_> why are these infinite gold things left in?
[02:17:51] <Zxcvb_> well, except for serpent isle, where everyone dies about 3/4 of the way through
[02:18:10] <Darke> Heh. Probably because people will find a way to cheat if they want to.
[02:18:28] <Zxcvb_> but is past posting considered cheating in ultima 7?
[02:18:36] <Zxcvb_> since it works in real life if you don't get caught
[02:19:16] <Zxcvb_> since you can be caught in the game at the casino, I am assuming it is not a bug or exploit
[02:19:46] <Darke> Nope.
[02:19:59] <Zxcvb_> what about the animate/clone thing?
[02:20:17] <Darke> I expect the rat-race one was one they left there by accident, but the past posting one must have been put there deliberately.
[02:20:18] <Zxcvb_> essentially, you give the armor life with a level 4 spell, then copy it with a level 6 spell
[02:20:23] <Darke> Sounds just like an un-caught bug to me.
[02:22:02] <Zxcvb_> I beat up on cyclopses in the cyclops cave until level 5, then go to destard, go solo in avatar mode and cast invisiblity
[02:22:35] <Zxcvb_> that's for ultima 6
[02:22:50] <Zxcvb_> Darke: how do you get money in ultima 7?
[02:23:16] <Zxcvb_> and the rat race is not a bug
[02:23:30] <Zxcvb_> both the race and wheel pay better if you are fellowship
[02:23:46] <Zxcvb_> kind of like a checkout clerk ringing up some items for you for free
[02:26:23] <Darke> I just expored the world, killed things, and had gold and nuggests filling multiple crates. *grin*
[02:26:55] * Darke was always much more of an explorer, then plot-line-follower. *grin*
[02:27:46] <Zxcvb_> Darke: mabye they figure that in ultima 6, by the time you can use animate/clone, you could just use invisibility to kill a bunch of dragons and get stuff just as fast if not faster
[02:28:12] <Zxcvb_> Darke: did you go to yew in the beginning of ultima 9 by using empty potion bottles to climb mountains?
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[02:29:17] <sbx> hello
[02:29:22] <Zxcvb_> oh, in serpent isle, don't use bags that appear due to the teleport storm
[02:29:29] <Zxcvb_> anything created by a teleport storm is unstable
[02:29:52] <Zxcvb_> teleport storms, that is
[02:30:25] <Darke> Zxcvb_: Never played u9 either. Well, much more then starting it up and having it perform horrible, crash continuously, and have me uninstall it less then 3 hours later after having gotten nowhere. *grin*
[02:30:46] <Zxcvb_> Darke: do you still have it?
[02:31:22] <Darke> Yeah, I've got it somewhere around here.
[02:31:27] <Zxcvb_> Darke: if so, 1: install uncompressed textures, 2: install the 1.18 patch, 3: install the 1.19f patch (removes the too many items bug, fixes direct 3d some, and even elimiates their buggy safedisc)
[02:32:00] <Zxcvb_> Darke: ultima 9 not only used safedisc, but a buggy and most likely beta versions
[02:32:17] <Zxcvb_> Darke: probably safedisc 0.63
[02:32:49] <Darke> Wouldn't surprise me. I've never had any luck with safedisk, etc. I normally end up just iso-ing them and/or using a crack.
[02:33:26] <Zxcvb_> Darke: the unoffical 1.19f includes a crack
[02:33:52] <Zxcvb_> Darke: in ultima 9, if you had too many items in an area, the game would crash if you restored from a save in that area
[02:34:03] <Zxcvb_> Darke: 1.19f fixes that too
[02:34:24] <Zxcvb_> Darke: also get the dialog, monster and economy patches, all 1.60
[02:35:58] <Zxcvb_> Darke: the economy patch makes gold actually useful (you can buy bags, and even some equipment before you find it)
[02:36:11] <Darke> I think I had the .18 patch at the time, the .19f wasn't out then, it has been years since I looked at it. *grin*
[02:36:32] <Zxcvb_> Darke: you can also buy lots of good stuff (war bow of blood, fire/ice swords) at the guild in buc's den
[02:36:51] <Zxcvb_> Darke: do NOT free the silver serpent, the +1 karma (i.e. mana) is not worth it
[02:39:21] <Zxcvb_> oh, after completing the ghost jewlrey quest in minoc (+2 karma/max mana), you can buy more jade bracelets in minoc and put them in the crypt too, you get +2 mana for each one (the shopkeeper stole them from the dead, so it is legitimate and not a cheat)
[02:39:46] <Darke> Cool.
[02:40:06] <Zxcvb_> of course, by that time, you could just buy a bunch of spider silk and make orange (restore mana potions)
[02:40:14] <Zxcvb_> in ultima 9, the potions are as follows
[02:40:24] <Zxcvb_> yellow - light heal (30 hp)
[02:40:34] <Zxcvb_> red is cure poison and black is invisiblity
[02:40:51] <Zxcvb_> purple is total invincibility (think temporary power avatar)
[02:41:09] <Zxcvb_> blue is mana breath so your air meter doesn't go down when diving underwater
[02:41:38] <Zxcvb_> white is armor of flames, which does small damage to anyone who hits you and protects from fire (and reduces the damage from lava _lots_)
[02:42:34] <Zxcvb_> green is still poison
[02:42:43] <Zxcvb_> and you can make potions by using an empty flask and a reagent
[02:43:34] * Darke nods.
[02:44:01] <Zxcvb_> if you buy a bunch of spider silk, you can get infinite mana
[02:44:09] <Zxcvb_> effectively, that is
[02:44:19] <Zxcvb_> probably why the ghost jewlrey isn't a cheat
[02:45:51] <Zxcvb_> just a warning, exploring in ultima 9 by climbing on potion bottles over mountains or building bridges can cause the same corruption as cheating
[02:46:04] <Zxcvb_> so avoid all civilization and dungeons
[02:46:19] <Zxcvb_> the only reason to get to yew is for the ice sword
[02:46:36] <Zxcvb_> it's north of yew, and you can get it without even seeing another human
[02:46:51] <Zxcvb_> I have to go, bbl
[02:47:18] <Darke> Bye!
[02:47:39] <sbx> bye
[02:48:04] <Zxcvb_> good luck
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[02:48:32] <sbx> u9 doesn't sound all that great
[02:49:00] <sbx> hmm
[02:49:04] <sbx> but everyone knows that
[02:49:11] <sbx> so nevermind
[02:49:35] * sbx will still play it one of these days.
[02:52:37] * Darke figures so too. It's been three years since he originally tried it out on the top-of-the-line card he had just purchased, and he's gotten a much better one now, so hopefully it'll finally be playable. *grin*
[02:55:03] <sbx> hopefully ill get a second computer that it is playable on too
[02:55:09] <sbx> going to sleep for now
[02:55:11] <sbx> cya
[02:55:29] <Darke> Night!
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[09:44:59] <wjp> hi
[10:07:40] <Darke> Greetings.
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[11:58:09] <wjp> hi Fingolfin
[11:58:26] <Fingolfin> yo
[11:59:45] <Darke> Hi.
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[13:31:15] <Colourless> hi
[13:36:08] <Kirben> Hi Colourless
[13:36:59] <Kirben> Colourless: could I get the updated installer for 1.1+ ?
[13:37:54] <Colourless> should be able to arrange that
[14:34:57] <Colourless> Kirben: just a few minutes and i'll be done
[14:35:25] <Kirben> ok
[14:35:55] <Colourless> if it works this time, sdl mixer should be included
[14:36:04] <wjp> exultmsg.txt too? :-)
[14:36:09] <Colourless> i still have no idea why the previous one didn't work
[14:36:23] <Colourless> yeah, exultmsg.txt too
[14:38:13] <Colourless> exultmsg.txt should really work like the keymapping
[14:38:22] <Colourless> default is included in the flex
[14:38:28] <wjp> yes...
[14:38:31] <Colourless> however it can be overriden by a separate file
[14:38:37] <wjp> or better: multiple defaults in the flex
[14:38:43] <wjp> (en, de, fr, ...)
[14:39:00] <Colourless> yeah, we need someone to translate first :-)
[14:39:07] * wjp pokes artaxerxes :-)
[14:39:10] * wjp pokes Dominus
[14:39:26] <Colourless> you could also poke fingolfin too if you wanted :-)
[14:39:37] <wjp> true :-)
[14:40:12] <Colourless> i think you should poke the one that next enters the channel :-)
[14:40:51] <wjp> hm, only 16 lines to translate so far
[14:53:25] <Colourless> ok Kirben download the new snapshot package here: http://www.users.on.net/triforce/snapshot.zip
[14:58:08] <wjp> going home; bbl
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[15:00:12] <Kirben> thanks
[15:00:18] <Kirben> need to reboot to test
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[15:05:51] <Kirben> works fine :)
[15:07:26] <Colourless> good to know this one works
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[15:30:36] <Colourless> wb
[15:31:14] <wjp> thanks
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[16:21:19] <Colourless> someone... from germany
[16:21:26] <lars> yes.
[16:22:16] <lars> i'm "down under" so to speak
[16:22:32] <Colourless> explain
[16:22:41] <lars> from your perspective
[16:22:52] <Colourless> hmm. not at all
[16:23:01] <lars> your not from australia?
[16:23:20] <Colourless> .au is the only place that is allowed to be referred to as being 'down under'
[16:23:45] <lars> then I'm "up above" if you like ;)
[16:23:50] <Colourless> you... are just trying to steal our claim to fame, by claiming that under any circumstances you are 'down under' when you are not in .au land
[16:25:04] --- lars is now known as jan_here
[16:25:26] <jan_here> lars is probably taken as a nick
[16:26:38] <jan_here> you know what "unknown bytecode" means?
[16:27:08] <Colourless> in reference to what?
[16:27:38] <Colourless> generally if something is classed as unknown... then it's unknown :-)
[16:28:48] <jan_here> :) .. I mean, are that functions that are supposed to be called but aren't implemented? AFAIK the bytcode is the original ultima script.
[16:29:34] <Colourless> anyway, bytecode is generally used to describe a compiled script or program
[16:29:44] <Colourless> the usecode in ultima 7 is a bytecode.
[16:30:02] <Colourless> the functions that are called by the bytecode, refer to as being intrinsic functions
[16:30:34] <jan_here> yes.. I'm just playing "serpent isle" right now and there is this hut with a fool inside. I can click on hiom but nothing happens.. it's one of these "unknown bytecode XXX" things.
[16:31:03] <Colourless> now, i know what you are actually talking about
[16:31:11] <Colourless> so i can probably answer the question :-)
[16:31:37] <jan_here> sorry, didn't mean to be cryptic ..
[16:33:23] <Colourless> hmm, i can't seem to find 'bytecode' in the sources
[16:33:31] <Colourless> are you sure that is what it said?
[16:35:20] <jan_here> hmm.. can't find it right now.. it has scrolled out of my terminal buffer.
[16:37:03] <jan_here> I can walk back.. but that takes a moment
[16:40:01] <jan_here> ah there.. its usecode not bytecode : usecode 247 not found.
[16:40:24] <Colourless> that means that the usecode function 247 wasn't found
[16:40:31] <Colourless> that is pretty normal
[16:40:47] <Colourless> it just means that you can't use the object
[16:41:26] <jan_here> how come?
[16:41:54] <Colourless> because origin never wrote a use function for it
[16:42:05] <Colourless> if you were to use our usecode compiler, you could write a use function for 247 so using it would do something
[16:42:51] <jan_here> strange.. theres a fool in a hut just standing there not doing anything and not being usable.
[16:43:12] <jan_here> youre on the team?
[16:43:19] <Colourless> yeah
[16:43:30] <Colourless> he was probably a 'monster' spawned by an egg
[16:43:35] * jan_here bows in admiration
[16:43:40] <Colourless> his allignment probably isn't set to hostile
[16:43:52] <Colourless> so he won't do anything
[16:44:22] <jan_here> I doubt it.. he has all the things of a character, haven't tried to kill him yet though
[16:44:30] <jan_here> hmm..
[16:44:44] <Colourless> where about, and which game?
[16:44:44] <jan_here> may I make a wish?
[16:45:01] <Colourless> just go into the cheat menu (f2) and tell me the coords
[16:45:10] <jan_here> serpent isle. he has his hut at the far east point of the goblin forest north of knights test
[16:45:58] <jan_here> hmm have to enable cheats .. wait
[16:46:07] <Colourless> yar, that be the software pirate?
[16:46:58] <Colourless> mp ot
[16:47:03] <Colourless> no it's someone else
[16:47:20] <jan_here> a teleported chuckles?
[16:48:30] <Colourless> just a second, re-compiling
[16:48:44] <jan_here> coords in hex?
[16:48:54] <jan_here> 026a 07d8 00
[16:49:14] <jan_here> or dec: 0618 2008 00 Im standing outside the hut
[16:50:05] <jan_here> oh, its you cheat screen, havnt used cheats before.
[16:50:44] <Colourless> :-)
[16:50:55] <Colourless> odd that :-)
[16:51:51] <jan_here> yeah, saw usecodes some time or other too already, but haven't noticed anything in the game before
[16:52:47] <jan_here> can the usecode compiler/decompiler also tell me what door a key is for?
[16:53:19] <SB-X> you dont even need usecode for that
[16:53:27] <SB-X> you can view the object qualities
[16:53:28] <Colourless> na, working out which key goes to which door is not 'easy'
[16:53:42] <SB-X> wjp made a program didnt he?
[16:53:53] <Colourless> basically you need to check every door in the entire map to see if the q's match
[16:54:00] <jan_here> I havn't used the cheat menu before how do I view the qualities?
[16:54:10] <Colourless> i think wjp just hacked up the exult savegame loading :-)
[16:54:49] <SB-X> ho
[16:54:50] <SB-X> oh
[16:55:02] <jan_here> apropos loading: could someone hack the game so it readjusts the palette when I go into the menu. when it's pitch dark I can hardly read the menu items
[16:55:37] <SB-X> isn't that a "feature"? :)
[16:55:57] <jan_here> I don't remember it from the original game I think.
[16:56:15] <jan_here> there it did readjustment IIRC
[16:56:25] <SB-X> "exult feature"
[16:56:52] <Colourless> problem with changing the palette is it's a 'cheat' of sorts
[16:59:26] <jan_here> is the decompiler part of exult studio? It would be interresting to have a look at the usecode
[17:00:05] <Colourless> there is 'wud' that is a disassembler (converts usecode into assembler code)
[17:00:43] <jan_here> so it's not like it transfers into kind of a human readable form?
[17:00:49] <Colourless> the assembler code can be turned into a binary using wuc
[17:01:17] <Colourless> but it's only really useful for making patches to the original usecode
[17:01:32] <Colourless> we do have a decompiler. However it's only semi functional
[17:02:20] <Colourless> the code it produces is in no way compatible with our usecode compiler
[17:02:42] <Colourless> ucxt = decompiler, ucc = compiler, wud = disassembler, wuc = assembler
[17:03:40] <Colourless> using ucxt 'might' give you an idea about how things work, but be warned, it's not feature complete. some things may produce strange code
[17:04:33] <jan_here> Id just like to read it, not patch the game.
[17:05:56] <jan_here> but by now you do know what all the codes in it are supposed to do/trigger? (only what I mean, not necessarily how the what works, I have read about your problems regarding ammo,dat etc.)
[17:07:52] <Colourless> i don't necessarily 'know' the details about what all the code does, but i am familiar enough with disassembled usecode that i can understand functions easily enough by just reading through the opcodes
[17:08:30] <Colourless> of course, it's a long and painful process to be able to read and *know* what disassembled functions are doing
[17:10:00] <jan_here> I mean for the game, exult can interpret all of them correctly?
[17:10:38] <Colourless> yess pretty much as far as we know
[17:11:12] <jan_here> quite the accomplishment.
[17:11:23] <Colourless> there maybe a few cases were things aren't handled properly, but in those cases it's often we just have no idea what something is suppoed to do
[17:11:46] <Colourless> because it doesn't seem to be doing anything
[17:11:46] <jan_here> how does the errormessage for that look like?
[17:12:42] <jan_here> hmm, found another usecode (202)
[17:14:09] <Colourless> it used to say something like Unhandled Intrinsic ???
[17:14:17] <Colourless> where ??? would be the unhandled number
[17:15:37] <jan_here> debris in the crypt in monitor dec: 0647,2470,00 doubleclicking on the debris.
[17:16:02] <jan_here> hmm.. is there list of unclear functions or so? I love a good puzzle.
[17:16:51] <Colourless> you don't need to be concerned with those messages
[17:17:07] <Colourless> you can probably double click most items in the world and you'll get those messages
[17:17:52] <Colourless> usecode functions are not the same as intrinsic functions.
[17:18:22] <jan_here> yes, i meant the intrinsic functions
[17:18:33] <Colourless> well yes
[17:19:00] <Colourless> bgintrinsics.h and siintrinsics.h contain the list of supported and unsupported intrinsic functions
[17:20:51] <jan_here> you said "used to say" unhandeled intrinsic function errors are no longer shown?
[17:21:15] <Colourless> as for usecode functions, the program ucdump can tell you the numbers of the usecode functions that are used
[17:22:19] <Colourless> as far a i can tell the errors are no longer shown
[17:22:50] <Colourless> if you enable intrinsic tracing, it will tell you
[17:22:57] <Colourless> but that produces a lot of output
[17:25:15] <jan_here> hmm, I'll try it. some are marked "known", some are not marked. what's the meaning of this? guess and so on is easy..
[17:26:31] <jan_here> the unmarked ones are probably evident, but the known ones?
[17:27:00] <Colourless> the 'known' comments are from when i was attempting to work out what the intrinsics for serpent isle were
[17:27:24] <Colourless> basically i knew that the si intrinsics would probably have been similar to the bg ones
[17:27:52] <Colourless> so when i knew for sure what an intrinsic was, i would mark it as known, giving me a rough idea of how things probably should be
[17:28:11] <jan_here> oh, just a difference in maintainer then.
[17:29:17] <Colourless> functions commented as UNUSED are not used at all
[17:29:44] <Colourless> UNKNOWN functions not marked as UNUSED are obviously not implemented and are probably used
[17:30:02] <Colourless> however, them not being implemented does seem to be causing problems
[17:30:08] <Colourless> at least nothing obviou
[17:30:10] <Colourless> s
[17:36:11] <jan_here> err, how do I enable intrinsic tracing? I tried enabling debug in the configfile but havent seen an increase in output.
[17:38:45] <Colourless> you need to add a setting to exult.cfg but i can't remember exactly which one
[17:39:46] <Colourless> ok
[17:40:12] <jan_here> well, yes it's also that you seem to need a setting <music_path> now, at least on Linux, otherwise it didn't find the digital music files.
[17:40:13] <Colourless> you need to set "config/debug/trace/intrinsics" in the exult.cfg to yes
[17:40:47] <Colourless> it should default to looking for them in the exult data dir
[17:41:44] <Colourless> however if you custom set the data dir in exult.cfg, it will not look for the music in the custom dir, it will look for it in the default dir, unless you specify a music_path
[17:41:46] <jan_here> oh, thats why.. the docu said to place them in /data/music/
[17:42:11] <SB-X> yes default is data/music last time i used it
[17:42:22] <SB-X> i havnt used exult for a long time
[17:43:08] <wjp> back
[17:43:15] <Colourless> wb :-)
[17:43:19] <wjp> thx
[17:43:34] <wjp> yikes... actual conversation
[17:43:37] <wjp> and lots of it :-)
[17:44:02] <wjp> <Colourless> i think wjp just hacked up the exult savegame loading :-) <-- I actually have some semi-designed SQL object dumping code here
[17:44:03] <Colourless> i have 'ignored' the exult source code for so long, it's almost unrecognisable
[17:44:19] <wjp> (added a virtual dumpsql() function to Game_object)
[17:45:32] * wjp wonders if these RH9 packages built from within gentoo will work in RH9
[17:46:03] <wjp> (I chroot-ed to the root of the RH9 filesystem and built from there... so it might just work)
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[17:48:36] * SB-X pokes freenode with a pointystick.
[17:49:05] <wjp> only one way to find out I guess...
[17:49:06] <wjp> brb
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[17:50:24] <jan_here> btw: what is the intro to BG? (filetype) FLI?
[17:52:06] <Colourless> it has no filetype
[17:52:18] <Colourless> it's just various shapes
[17:53:06] <Colourless> we had to write all the code to make them display at the correct time and place in exult itself
[17:53:36] <jan_here> hmm it runs too fast at times I think (and zooming isn't implented, right?)
[17:54:39] <Colourless> yeah
[17:54:56] <jan_here> you mean you had to script the intro from scratch?
[17:55:03] <Colourless> yes we did
[17:55:11] <Colourless> getting it running perfect is very difficult
[17:55:21] <Colourless> so chances are it's never going to happen
[17:55:35] <jan_here> is the script for it hardcoded into the executable? no usecode?
[17:55:52] <jan_here> the original u7.exe
[17:55:59] <Colourless> yes
[17:56:06] <Colourless> intro.exe actually :-)
[17:56:24] <Colourless> u7 used multiple exe files :-)
[17:56:30] * jan_here swears.
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[17:57:48] <wjp> well, that seems to work just fine :-)
[17:57:52] <wjp> so I can build RH9 rpms from gentoo :-)
[17:58:54] <Colourless> just because something appears to work, doesn't mean it actually does :-)
[17:58:56] <jan_here> hmm.. it's probably too difficult to decompress and decompile the intro.exe and look for the script?
[17:59:18] <Colourless> hence me releasing exult-1.1Beta1-win32 with 2 major bugs
[17:59:26] <Colourless> it 'appeared' to work in my testing :-)
[17:59:45] <Colourless> ha, too difficult doesn't even begin to describe it :-)
[18:00:18] <jan_here> i guess you already tried :-) (and probably have greater expertise than me)
[18:00:34] <wjp> what's the problem with the intro?
[18:01:14] <jan_here> its not exactely like the original
[18:02:30] <jan_here> is playing of soundeffects also handled by usecode?
[18:02:42] <wjp> any specific part which isn't the same?
[18:03:34] <jan_here> well, the guardings lipsynch of course, the fist hitting (it too fast) no zooming effects.
[18:03:45] <wjp> zooming isn't implemented
[18:04:04] <wjp> guardian's lipsynch... Nadir figured out where it's stored, IIRC
[18:04:12] <jan_here> cool
[18:04:26] <Colourless> but it's still not implemented wjp :-)
[18:04:31] <wjp> yes :-)
[18:04:37] <jan_here> took the words from my mouth
[18:05:18] <jan_here> how is music playing handeled in SI? does the called function do it? (music in combat is somewhat strange)
[18:05:35] <Colourless> combat music is all handled by exult
[18:07:13] <jan_here> well in fighting it sometimes playes an additional tune to the fighting tune where I guess it should play a soundeffect.
[18:08:05] <Colourless> drcode is attempting to track down that problem
[18:08:18] <Colourless> at least, he knows about it
[18:09:10] <jan_here> sorry, I don't really know stante pedem what all is already known and in the works. I just blurt it out here and dont consult the bug database at sourceforge every time. Sorry
[18:16:31] <jan_here> how do I compile ucxt or is head2data its executable (wuc ucc and wud are there)
[18:16:36] <jan_here> ?
[18:17:02] <wjp> which os?
[18:17:06] <jan_here> linux
[18:17:38] <wjp> didn't it build?
[18:17:46] <wjp> binary should be usecode/ucxt/src/ucxt
[18:17:55] <wjp> I'm fairly sure it's enabled by default
[18:18:08] <jan_here> silly me, looked a directory too high.
[18:22:15] <jan_here> well, now I just have to know how to use it :) .. ucxt USECODE was unfruitful
[18:22:15] * jan_here <- not a programmer obviously.
[18:22:15] <jan_here> or a bad one at least
[18:23:03] <SB-X> just type ucxt to see usage
[18:23:31] <jan_here> no. it just says: Aborted
[18:23:45] <wjp> hm, it gives 30 lines of output here
[18:24:11] <jan_here> do I have to move it somewhere?
[18:24:17] <jan_here> set some environment variables?
[18:24:21] <SB-X> it needs to be able to find your exult.cfg and from that find your static directories
[18:24:22] <wjp> hm, you may need to install some data files
[18:24:23] <jan_here> lars@alice:~/exult-1.1Beta1/usecode/ucxt/src$ ./ucxt
[18:24:23] <jan_here> Aborted
[18:24:23] <jan_here> lars@alice:~/exult-1.1Beta1/usecode/ucxt/src$
[18:24:47] <jan_here> can I give the path to .exult.cfg as a parameter?
[18:25:19] <SB-X> theres -nc - don't look for exult's .xml config file
[18:25:21] <wjp> it looks for that in the 'usual' place: ~/.exult.cfg
[18:25:24] <SB-X> and -ifile - load the usecode file specified by the filename
[18:25:39] <SB-X> make sure the data is installed like wjp said
[18:25:59] <wjp> let's see.. you probably need to add some lines to your .exult.cfg
[18:26:07] <wjp> <ucxt>
[18:26:07] <wjp> <root>
[18:26:07] <wjp> /data/exult/exult/usecode/ucxt/data
[18:26:07] <wjp> </root>
[18:26:07] <wjp> </ucxt>
[18:27:09] <wjp> (with the appropriate path, of course)
[18:27:22] <wjp> these lines should probably go directly before the </config> line
[18:27:37] <wjp> unless you already have them somewhere, in which case you can just fix the path :-)
[18:28:07] <jan_here> in what section?
[18:28:20] <wjp> it's a section of its own
[18:28:33] <jan_here> that is the path to what? the USECODE file?
[18:28:47] <wjp> no, to the data directory from ucxt
[18:29:00] <wjp> (pointing it to usecode/ucxt/data in your source tree should work)
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[18:33:09] <jan_here> hmm seem doesn't work. ucxt hesitates a little longer, but still "Aborted"
[18:34:29] <Colourless> ah, darke, such usecode error messages :-)
[18:34:29] <Colourless> s/usecode/useful/
[18:37:14] <SB-X> really
[18:38:42] <wjp> can you try "cmanip ~/.exult.cfg get config/ucxt/root"? (in the tools directory)
[18:38:58] <jan_here> wtf? exult seems to reset the formation tag to yes?:wq
[18:39:38] <wjp> :wq? :-)
[18:39:55] <wjp> it's possible only 'yes' is supported currently
[18:39:57] <jan_here> lars@alice:~/exult-1.1Beta1/tools$ ./cmanip ~/.exult get config/ucxt/root
[18:39:57] <jan_here> cmanip: Configuration.cc:130: bool Configuration::read_config_string(const std::string&): Assertion `s[nn]=='<'' failed.
[18:39:57] <jan_here> Aborted
[18:39:57] <jan_here> lars@alice:~/exult-1.1Beta1/tools$
[18:40:24] <jan_here> :wq (command to my vi. wrong window)
[18:40:51] <wjp> .exult.cfg is corrupt, then
[18:41:08] <jan_here> wjp .. an idea where?
[18:41:19] <wjp> try deleting the ucxt lines you added
[18:41:31] <wjp> and then run that cmanip command again
[18:42:24] <jan_here> same result
[18:44:11] <jan_here> does it do this also if the tag is just unrecognised (like when I would ad <xyz></xyz>)?
[18:44:17] <Colourless> does exult run?
[18:44:21] <jan_here> yes
[18:44:47] <wjp> with the current config file?
[18:44:47] <wjp> weird
[18:44:56] <wjp> cmanip and exult use the same config file reading code
[18:48:36] <Colourless> i'm going
[18:48:36] <Colourless> cy
[18:48:36] <Colourless> a
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[18:48:36] <jan_here> bye
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[18:49:06] <Zxcvb> anyone here?
[18:49:25] <jan_here> yes
[18:50:07] <Zxcvb> have you played serpent isle?
[18:50:23] <jan_here> currently doing it
[18:51:00] <Zxcvb> if so, any idea why the screen would become messed up just after the teleport storm and before meeting thoxa?
[18:51:18] <jan_here> messed up how? and what version of exult do you run?
[18:51:25] <Zxcvb> it can be "fixed" by going southeast, then going back up to where you meet thoxa to start that portion
[18:51:33] <Zxcvb> 1.1beta
[18:51:49] <Zxcvb> which is the 1.1 snapshot on exult's site
[18:51:56] <Zxcvb> I have been unable to reproduce it
[18:52:30] <Zxcvb> btw, don't forget to get the false coin scroll in the invisible chest beneath the blue boar in before you head to moonshade
[18:55:10] <jan_here> wjp: my fault. forgot the .cfg after the .exult. : output is now: unknown
[18:55:44] <jan_here> ./cmanip ~/.exult.cfg get /config/ucxt/root
[18:55:44] <jan_here> unknown
[18:56:57] <jan_here> I had uexult crash twice and couldn't reproduce it. IANAP, sorry.
[18:57:51] <jan_here> sorry wjp.
[18:59:35] <Zxcvb> too bad exult doesn't support scale3x or scale4x
[19:00:21] <SB-X> it doesnt?
[19:00:31] <SB-X> what happens when you set scale to 3 or 4
[19:00:36] <SB-X> and Scale2x as the scaler
[19:00:49] <jan_here> well, you cant set the scaler to 3 or 4
[19:00:56] <jan_here> at least not -in- the game
[19:01:13] <SB-X> you have to do it in the config file
[19:01:53] <wjp> ok, unknown means it's not in the config file
[19:02:00] <wjp> was this after you removed the ucxt lines again?
[19:02:38] <wjp> use "cmanip ~/.exult.cfg add config/ucxt/root /path/to/usecode/ucxt/data" to add the ucxt data directory to the config file
[19:03:31] <jan_here> argh. you have to omit the leadint "/"
[19:04:38] <jan_here> now I see the error
[19:06:22] <jan_here> hmm.. that didnt work either.
[19:06:30] <jan_here> had a typo in the path before.
[19:06:41] <jan_here> its correct now but ucxt will still not run
[19:09:36] <jan_here> it still aborts
[19:13:14] <jan_here> btw: if I give it an unsupported parameter it says: unsupported parameter -n detected. countinuing.
[19:13:15] <jan_here> Aborted
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[19:34:33] <jan_here> wjp: I recompiled ucxt, no error, but it still won't run
[19:34:43] <jan_here> maybe I have a wrong library somewhere?
[19:34:54] <wjp> what does "cmanip ~/.exult.cfg get config/ucxt/root" say now?
[19:35:41] <jan_here> ./cmanip ~/.exult.cfg get config/ucxt/root
[19:35:41] <jan_here> /home/lars/exult-1.1Beta1/usecode/ucxt/data
[19:36:21] <wjp> looks good
[19:36:29] <wjp> so what happens now when you start ucxt?
[19:36:35] <wjp> still aborted?
[19:36:41] <jan_here> Aborted
[19:36:50] <wjp> weird
[19:37:10] <wjp> try configuring with --enable-debug and then running ucxt in gdb
[19:37:20] <jan_here> as I said: do I need a library in a certain version?
[19:37:28] <wjp> if it builds it should be ok
[19:37:41] <wjp> any errors should show up in the build phase
[19:37:56] <wjp> btw, which files are in /home/lars/exult-1.1Beta1/usecode/ucxt/data?
[19:38:51] <jan_here> you mean ./configure --enable-debug in the main exult directory?
[19:39:07] <wjp> yes
[19:39:13] <jan_here> events.data Makefile Makefile.in u7bgintrinsics.data u7opcodes.data
[19:39:13] <jan_here> flags.data Makefile.am opcodes.txt u7misc.data u7siintrinsics.data
[19:39:20] <wjp> ok, looks right
[19:41:49] <jan_here> configure says:
[19:41:52] <jan_here> config.status: error: cannot find input file: data/Makefile.in
[19:42:13] <wjp> eh?
[19:42:20] <jan_here> weird
[19:42:28] <wjp> hm, try running autogen.sh first
[19:42:39] <jan_here> i try doing make clean first
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[19:43:25] <jan_here> I just unpack the stuf again..
[19:43:31] <jan_here> aking clean in data
[19:43:31] <jan_here> make[1]: Entering directory `/home/lars/exult-1.1Beta1/data'
[19:43:31] <jan_here> make[1]: *** Keine Regel, um clean zu erstellen. Schluss.
[19:43:31] <jan_here> make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/lars/exult-1.1Beta1/data'
[19:43:31] <jan_here> make: *** [clean-recursive] Fehler 1
[19:43:31] <jan_here> lars@alice:~/exult-1.1Beta1$
[19:43:47] <Dominus> hi
[19:44:19] <wjp> hi
[19:44:29] <Dominus> wjp: I would like to translate those sentences in exultmsg.txt :-)
[19:44:42] <wjp> yay! :-)
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[19:44:50] <Dominus> but I don't really know how I should translate them
[19:44:59] <wjp> freely
[19:45:05] <Fingolfin> yo
[19:45:07] <Dominus> yeah
[19:45:12] <Dominus> that will be fun :-)
[19:45:12] <wjp> any accents... hmm...
[19:45:20] <wjp> I'll have to look it up for the german one
[19:45:51] <Dominus> I can use the other way to writw the
[19:46:16] <Dominus> though they should be supported by the german fonts file
[19:46:17] <wjp> other way? you mean ue ae oe?
[19:46:21] <Dominus> yep
[19:46:39] <wjp> would look weird
[19:46:56] <wjp> (since u7 itself uses umlauts)
[19:47:15] <jan_here> I just crashed exult
[19:47:20] <Dominus> don't even know if those would be used...
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[19:47:53] <jan_here> can I just make "make tools"?
[19:47:54] <Dominus> the next question would be: how to name that file
[19:48:21] <wjp> no, "make tools" won't work
[19:48:29] <wjp> (blame automake)
[19:48:29] <wjp> exultmsg_de.txt or something
[19:48:43] <wjp> I'm hoping it'll go into exult.flx sometime anyway
[19:49:05] <Dominus> I read
[19:49:11] <jan_here> is it enough to do make in /exultsrcdir/tools ?
[19:49:22] <wjp> no, that does the same as "make tools"
[19:49:41] <jan_here> so I have to completely rebuild the whole of exult?
[19:49:58] <wjp> "make files conf shapes imagewin tools" should do it
[19:50:25] <wjp> if you want ucxt, you'll have to "make files conf shapes imagewin tools data flic audio pathfinder gumps usecode"
[19:50:55] <jan_here> nothing to be done for all of them..
[19:51:13] <wjp> make clean, then
[19:52:19] <jan_here> nothing to be done for all of them..
[19:52:41] <jan_here> somebody know what the second key in the gonlin camp is for?
[19:52:42] <wjp> how interesting
[19:53:02] <wjp> hm, no
[19:54:11] <wjp> I can find out if you have the quality, though
[19:55:05] <jan_here> no idea.
[19:55:23] <jan_here> colourless said something about a tool, but I have forgotten..
[19:55:33] <SB-X> haha my topic changed finally :)
[19:55:49] <wjp> it got lost in a netsplit
[19:56:12] <SB-X> oh :)
[19:56:42] <jan_here> how do I find out the quality?
[19:56:44] <SB-X> i just noticed the other day that it said i set it and i forgot all about it
[19:56:54] <SB-X> hmm just now i almost didnt remember how to spell "said"
[19:57:00] <SB-X> -_-
[19:57:13] <SB-X> oops just ignore me
[19:57:18] <wjp> if you compiled with --enable-debug it'll output the quality on the terminal when you click the key
[19:57:36] <jan_here> okay, waiting for the recompile then.
[19:58:47] <Dominus> wjp: in the german u7 is there a "" ?
[19:59:10] <wjp> uh
[19:59:27] <jan_here> found some more unused usecodes.. broken door, garbage fish and broken mirror.
[20:00:05] <SB-X> are they supposed to do something?
[20:00:34] <wjp> I would say that's normal
[20:01:10] <jan_here> dont know. maybe they should trigger some kind of reaction , like the characters doing a comment "Its broken" or so?
[20:01:30] <wjp> not AFAICR
[20:01:30] <SB-X> garbage fish is broken? :)
[20:01:59] <jan_here> should install dos and have look
[20:02:12] <SB-X> you can add your own functions for them like Colourless said
[20:03:35] <jan_here> hmm.. that does mean there never were such functions, right?
[20:05:22] <Zxcvb> are ships sinkable in ultima 7?
[20:05:29] <wjp> no
[20:05:49] <Zxcvb> ah, I was wondering about the excelencia, since it was made by that guy in minoc
[20:05:55] <jan_here> okay, I think that question already got answered
[20:06:10] <SB-X> hehe
[20:06:22] <Zxcvb> sounds like some of the unused maps in u9
[20:06:45] <SB-X> for some reason i thought a ship you could buy in minoc would sink too
[20:06:48] <SB-X> or do something
[20:07:11] <SB-X> some reason = because owen's ships are just bad
[20:07:43] <Zxcvb> mabye the avatar makes it seaworth?
[20:07:48] <SB-X> and some walkthrough suggested if im going to buy a ship not to buy one at minoc
[20:07:54] <SB-X> one of his spells
[20:08:02] <SB-X> or just being the avatar?:)
[20:08:20] <Zxcvb> just being the avatar, and a good adventurer
[20:08:27] <Dominus> does artaxerxes actually listen tio this channel or his he afk?
[20:08:28] <wjp> hm, I don't think I ever checked one of Owen's ships
[20:08:30] <wjp> maybe something weird does happen
[20:08:50] <Zxcvb> or mabye it is 1000 gold because the avatar insists on owen doing things to make it seaworth
[20:08:59] <Zxcvb> I never bought ships
[20:09:10] <Zxcvb> the jolly roger from the forge, and carpet are enough
[20:10:10] <Dominus> wjp: i have the file translated but wonder, is there even support for that in? Meaning will exult recognize it runs the german BG and will use the file then?
[20:10:25] <wjp> Dominus: no :-)
[20:10:34] <wjp> but now that we have a translation we'll just have to support it, won't we? :-)
[20:10:35] <Dominus> good then :-)
[20:10:42] <Zxcvb> SB-X: the carpet is useful for carpet bombing (throwing oil flasks or powder kegs over the side)
[20:12:32] <jan_here> carpet bombing LOL
[20:13:07] <SB-X> yes i havnt done that enough
[20:13:14] * Dominus is making sure he doesn't change changelog with his nice editor that kill spaces at the end of lines...
[20:13:39] <wjp> well, you did it once already so the impact will be a bit less now :-)
[20:13:41] <Zxcvb> since you can get caught in the casino for past posting (betting after spining the wheel), does that mean it is not cheating?
[20:14:03] <wjp> what kind of a question is that?
[20:14:07] <Dominus> wasn't that in pentagram?
[20:14:25] <wjp> oh, right
[20:19:49] <SB-X> no more cheating than stealing
[20:20:21] <Dominus> http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,59907,00.html I alwasy wondered if anyoen would buy sometthing from a spammer
[20:20:46] <jan_here> human stupidity converges with eternity..
[20:21:09] <SB-X> that sounds like the endgame of u6
[20:21:22] <SB-X> well close
[20:22:10] * SB-X takes his convex and concave lenses and puts them in his pack, since they aren't appreciated by anyone here.
[20:24:41] <Zxcvb> how is pentagram doing anyway?
[20:25:01] <wjp> doing ok :-)
[20:25:40] <Dominus> pentagram is suffering from weeks of no-comitts to days of endless comitts...
[20:26:12] <Zxcvb> exult is getting nearly perfect, except for some graphics corruption after the teleport storm but before thoxa
[20:26:33] <Zxcvb> haven't been able to reproduce it though, so it most only happen when stepping in the right place or following just the right path
[20:27:46] <jan_here> wjp: it gets weirder and weirder..
[20:28:17] <jan_here> depmode=gcc3 /bin/sh ../depcomp \
[20:28:17] <jan_here> /bin/sh ../libtool --mode=compile g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I.. -I./../headers -I./.. -I./../files -I./../imagewin -I./../shapes -I./../objs -I./../audio -I./../gumps -I./../tools -I./../server -I/usr/include/SDL -D_REENTRANT -DXWIN -g -Wno-long-long -g -O2 -c -o ucmachine.lo `test -f ucmachine.cc || echo './'`ucmachine.cc
[20:28:17] <jan_here> make[3]: *** [ucmachine.lo] Speicherzugriffsfehler
[20:28:17] <jan_here> make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/lars/exult-1.1Beta1/usecode'
[20:28:18] <jan_here> make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Fehler 1
[20:28:20] <jan_here> make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/lars/exult-1.1Beta1/usecode'
[20:28:22] <jan_here> make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Fehler 1
[20:28:24] <jan_here> make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/lars/exult-1.1Beta1'
[20:28:26] <jan_here> make: *** [all] Fehler 2
[20:28:35] <jan_here> speicerzugriffsfehler= memory violation error (I think)
[20:28:53] <wjp> uh?
[20:28:57] <wjp> maybe out of disk space?
[20:29:09] <Zxcvb> nope
[20:29:19] <Zxcvb> over 10GB on that partition
[20:29:31] <Dominus> huh?
[20:29:34] * wjp was asking jan_here
[20:29:49] <jan_here> ugh.. X has a virtual memory size of 65000KB?
[20:30:13] <wjp> mine has 96Mb
[20:30:28] <jan_here> well. I still have 267M swap free though..
[20:30:36] <SB-X> linux apps take what they want
[20:30:45] <wjp> and disk space?
[20:30:45] <SB-X> as much as they can
[20:30:51] <SB-X> *
[20:31:10] <jan_here> 4G free
[20:31:17] <wjp> should be plenty :-)
[20:31:17] <jan_here> no problem there obviously
[20:31:19] <Zxcvb> jan_here: do you have an AGP card?
[20:31:30] <jan_here> yes.
[20:31:41] <Zxcvb> jan_here: subtract the video RAM on your card from that
[20:33:11] <Dominus> huh? wjp:(This appears to be a binary file; contents omitted.) (in the exultmsg_de.txt comitt mail)
[20:33:16] <wjp> oh
[20:33:39] <wjp> probably got confused by the umlauts
[20:34:02] <jan_here> wow.. I just noticed: hollow trees are containers..
[20:34:12] <Dominus> ah, that may be. because it is not flagged as binary here...
[20:34:28] <wjp> it should be binary, I think
[20:34:32] <wjp> especially when we 'fix' the umlauts
[20:34:58] <Dominus> why should it be binary?
[20:35:05] * Dominus doesn't nderstand...
[20:35:32] <wjp> it probably isn't necessary, but the umlauted-characters will be in low-ascii
[20:35:46] <wjp> and those characters don't really belong in text files
[20:35:59] <Dominus> ah, I see
[20:37:40] <jan_here> how about smooth scrolling?
[20:37:47] <jan_here> :)
[20:42:10] <wjp> we'll consider applying a patch if you write it :-)
[20:43:14] <jan_here> okay :)
[20:43:37] <Dominus> hey, didn't see it but scummvm got slashdotted?
[20:43:50] <wjp> yes
[20:43:51] <Dominus> nice
[20:44:07] <wjp> and they got BASS released as freeware :-)
[20:44:19] <Dominus> yeah, that I saw
[20:44:30] <Dominus> and that is really something!
[20:44:38] <wjp> I like revolution :-)
[20:44:46] <wjp> first LOTT, now BASS
[20:44:52] <jan_here> they should talk to the guy who wrote the windows version of scumm for lucasarts.
[20:44:55] <wjp> and they gave scummvm the BS1/2 source too
[20:45:08] <Dominus> LOTT?
[20:45:14] <wjp> lure of the temptress
[20:45:22] <jan_here> BS1?
[20:45:28] <wjp> broken sword
[20:45:40] <wjp> classic games 101? :-)
[20:45:45] <Dominus> he he
[20:45:49] <jan_here> bass?
[20:45:53] <SB-X> i would need that class
[20:45:59] <SB-X> at least for scummvm games
[20:46:01] <wjp> beneath a steel sky
[20:46:13] <jan_here> ah.. , well. DOTT would be better
[20:46:18] <Dominus> jan_here: scummvm got contacted by Lucas arts lawyers already :-)
[20:46:32] <jan_here> what do they want? cease and desist?
[20:46:37] <wjp> lucasarts is ignoring scummvm currently, I think
[20:46:53] <wjp> they managed to avoid that, though
[20:47:00] <SB-X> scummvm actually responded instead of closing down the operation immediately
[20:47:00] <Dominus> didn't they come to some understanding?
[20:47:35] <wjp> I think they were talking at some point
[20:47:50] <wjp> but IIRC lucasarts stopped replying
[20:48:11] <jan_here> so they are out?
[20:48:17] <Dominus> Fingolfin: do you know more? anything that is not secret?
[20:48:19] <jan_here> like freecraft?
[20:48:35] <wjp> Fingolfin is supposed to be working, I think :-)
[20:49:59] <Fingolfin> yes, I am supposed to do it, and I'll logoff IRC in a few mins, because I can't work with it in the background =)
[20:50:04] <Fingolfin> no secret
[20:50:08] <Fingolfin> wjp is right
[20:50:27] <Fingolfin> Ender had a discussion with the folks at LA,back and forth, some tele conferences and so
[20:50:44] <Fingolfin> but it more or less silently died down...
[20:51:08] <Fingolfin> so right now we are in a semi-limbo state. in theory LA could pop up one day and try to C&D us
[20:51:12] <jan_here> did they recall the lawyers or came those after the breakup of talks?
[20:51:24] <Fingolfin> but when we talked to them, they were rather positive about it, all of them, including developers, lawyers and managment =)
[20:51:45] <Fingolfin> jan_here: I am afraid I don't understand what you mean?
[20:52:11] <jan_here> did they talk before or after the lawyers contacted them?
[20:52:29] <Fingolfin> "they" ?
[20:52:42] <jan_here> lucasarts and the scummvm people?
[20:52:44] <Fingolfin> Ender talked to the lawyers, of course. to whom else did you think we were talking?
[20:52:50] * Fingolfin is one of the scummvm people, btw =)
[20:53:17] <Fingolfin> we are all right over in #scummv, btw
[20:53:28] <SB-X> m?
[20:53:35] <jan_here> I was unaware of that.
[20:54:42] <jan_here> I would be suspicious. unless you have something definitively (i.e. in writing) you are not of the hook. remeber: you are dealing with LAWYERS here.
[20:56:02] <jan_here> have you hear what happened to wildcard design (the beos game porting comapny)?
[20:56:15] <Dominus> the problem with projects like this is: you never are off the hook unless you get something definite
[20:56:35] <SB-X> there was that aliens doom mod.
[20:56:40] <Dominus> until then you can only hope for ignorance
[20:56:56] <Dominus> I have a version of tha mod somewhere
[20:57:26] <Dominus> only when I tried to get an updated version did I see the c&d...
[20:58:03] <jan_here> you got a c&d when you tried to use it?
[20:58:18] <jan_here> I thought that normally only happens to people who do this stuff?
[20:58:22] <Fingolfin> jan_here: that's what I isaid "so right now we are in a semi-limbo state."
[20:58:26] <Dominus> LucasArts: I guess they decided to ignore it and not get tangled in opensource...
[20:58:28] <jan_here> i mean make
[20:58:30] <Fingolfin> but there is nothing we can do about it
[20:58:43] <Fingolfin> we have last talked to them in December or so I think
[20:58:46] <Fingolfin> <shrug>
[20:58:55] <Dominus> <jan_here> you got a c&d when you tried to use it? -No, I saw on the website they got a c&d
[20:59:04] <jan_here> there should be a legal construct like a "letter of benevolent ignoring" or so..
[20:59:26] <Fingolfin> jan_here: ah yes... and how do you force them to do that? <sarcasm>Shall we sue them?</sarcasm>
[21:00:22] <wjp> now there's an interesting idea :-)
[21:00:30] <Dominus> jan_here: then you get them to put lawyers on it and in the end they will most likely decide it is more hassle free to stop such projects...
[21:01:39] <Dominus> we aren't off the hook as well
[21:01:43] <jan_here> once you got the math figured out its as simple as issuing a c&d I would say.
[21:02:54] <jan_here> of course you would have to make the concession to make it so that people have to provide the original game to play it.
[21:03:10] <Dominus> an official document that says you are ignoring someone is not really ignoring. They would have to put lawyers on it to determine if it is safe to ignore the project. a c&d is much easier...
[21:07:28] <Fingolfin> indeed
[21:07:39] <Zxcvb> was freecraft ever restarted in a non-US country?
[21:07:39] <jan_here> Fingolfin: who said anything about forcing them to?
[21:08:48] <Fingolfin> jan_here: you suggested that "there should be a legal construct like a "letter of benevolent ignoring" or so..". Even if that was possible (and I highly doubt such a thing could be made generic), well, what's in it for them? a C&D exists already, no effort to send one out, either
[21:09:46] <Dominus> well, anyway it is nice to see that some companies are starting to see the light and make their old games free. It would be nice to be allowed to offer the Ultimas here for download :-)
[21:11:00] <jan_here> arghh, bug encountered.. gazers shooting through mountains..
[21:11:48] <jan_here> wjp: how do I use gdb , I have recompiled the complete package now
[21:12:18] <wjp> Darke?
[21:13:33] <Darke> Eh?
[21:13:35] <wjp> anyway, "gdb ucxt", and then in gdb "run"
[21:13:43] <wjp> Darke: jan_here has some issues with ucxt
[21:13:46] <SB-X> hehe
[21:14:12] * SB-X tries to poke Darke with the pointything but gets an "Aborted" message instead.
[21:14:24] <jan_here> Program received signal SIGABRT, Aborted.
[21:14:24] <jan_here> 0x4011ba51 in kill () from /lib/libc.so.6
[21:14:36] <wjp> now "bt"
[21:14:48] <jan_here> gdb) bt
[21:14:48] <jan_here> #0 0x4011ba51 in kill () from /lib/libc.so.6
[21:14:48] <jan_here> #1 0x4011b872 in raise () from /lib/libc.so.6
[21:14:48] <jan_here> #2 0x4011c986 in abort () from /lib/libc.so.6
[21:14:48] <jan_here> #3 0x400a2710 in __cxa_call_unexpected () from /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.5
[21:14:49] <jan_here> #4 0x400a2744 in std::terminate() () from /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.5
[21:14:51] <jan_here> #5 0x400a288d in __cxa_throw () from /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.5
[21:14:53] <jan_here> #6 0x080606fb in U7open(std::basic_ifstream<char, std::char_traits<char> >&, char const*, bool) (in=@0x400c47fc, fname=0x8073cd4 "./blackgate/static/usecode")
[21:14:56] <jan_here> at utils.cc:341
[21:14:57] <Darke> ucxt is, unfortunately, rather bit rotten. I don't know how it'll work, even if it does. *grin*
[21:14:58] <jan_here> #7 0x080515b2 in UCData::file_open(std::string const&) (this=0x806aac0,
[21:15:00] <jan_here> filename=@0x6) at /usr/include/c++/3.2/bits/basic_string.h:781
[21:15:02] <jan_here> #8 0x08050c5d in UCData::open_usecode(std::string const&) (this=0x806aac0,
[21:15:04] <jan_here> filename=@0xbffff870) at ucdata.cc:117
[21:15:06] <jan_here> #9 0x080547e1 in open_usecode_file(UCData&, Configuration const&) (
[21:15:08] <jan_here> uc=@0x806aac0, config=@0x0) at ucxt.cc:279
[21:15:10] <jan_here> #10 0x080539ae in main (argc=1, argv=0xbffffc24) at ucxt.cc:158
[21:15:22] <wjp> looks like it can't find blackgate/static/usecode
[21:15:22] <Darke> Odds are it's not finding those .data files in the /data/ directory.
[21:15:48] <wjp> Darke: we did that part already
[21:15:55] <Darke> Ahh, cool.
[21:16:45] <jan_here> how should the entries in .exult.cfg look like ?
[21:18:14] <jan_here> what does a kidney belt actually do? is it armour?
[21:18:42] <wjp> yes, armour
[21:18:58] <Darke> Hrm. Nothing's changed in the format of anything in the .exult.cfg in a while?
[21:19:08] <wjp> try "cmanip ~/.exult.cfg get config/disk/game/blackgate/path"
[21:19:46] <jan_here> ./blackgate
[21:19:53] <jan_here> ./blackgate
[21:19:58] <wjp> ok, that isn't really right
[21:20:04] <wjp> an absolute path would be better
[21:20:32] <jan_here> does ~/ultima7/blackgate qualify?
[21:20:41] <Dominus> got to go
[21:20:42] <Dominus> bye
[21:20:45] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("a pooka invited me to Charlie's")
[21:20:56] <wjp> bye
[21:21:08] <SB-X> what is that from?
[21:21:28] <SB-X> Dominus' quit message
[21:21:44] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC ("42")
[21:22:49] <Darke> Hrm. Works fine here...
[21:23:04] <Darke> For curious definitions of fine. Which is, indeed, a surprise.
[21:23:33] <wjp> jan_here: not sure if "~" works
[21:23:39] <Darke> Do you have a config/ucxt/root key set to anything?
[21:23:48] <wjp> better write it out (/home/lars/...)
[21:23:51] <jan_here> full path works with ucxt,
[21:24:16] <jan_here> I have replaced ALL path with absolute ones
[21:24:41] <Darke> How weird. Thought I just used standard u7 file access functions. Must have missed something.
[21:25:00] <wjp> Darke: why?
[21:25:38] <Darke> I thought exult worked with relative paths, and if ucxt only works with full paths, then I must be doing something odd. *grin*
[21:25:39] <jan_here> wjp: about that key:
[21:25:48] <jan_here> Object 641:14 has 3d tiles (x, y, z): 1, 1, 1
[21:25:48] <jan_here> tx = 848, ty = 573, tz = 0, quality = 126, okay_to_take = 2048, flag0x1d = 0, hp = 0, weight = 1, volume = 2
[21:25:48] <jan_here> obj = 0x86adde0
[21:25:48] <jan_here> TFA[1][0-6]= 2
[21:25:48] <jan_here> TFA[0][0-1]= 0
[21:25:50] <jan_here> TFA[0][3-4]= 1
[21:25:52] <jan_here> Object is SOLID
[21:25:54] <jan_here> Object name is key
[21:25:55] <wjp> Darke: the current directory was probably different
[21:26:11] <wjp> in SI, right?
[21:26:21] <Darke> Suppose so.
[21:26:30] <jan_here> well.. it of course interprets ./blackgate correct.. but from its position that does of course not exist..
[21:27:16] <wjp> jan_here: I don't see any doors/chests or anything that it would open
[21:27:17] <jan_here> but why does it have to know about the paths of BG and SI? shouldn't it just work on files I feed it?
[21:27:31] <jan_here> so its a "red herring"?
[21:27:52] <jan_here> wjp: just to check, how about:
[21:28:20] <SB-X> jan_here: it does have options i mentioned earlier to work on certain files
[21:28:23] <wjp> just the "quality = " bit matters
[21:28:39] <SB-X> oh but thats just config
[21:28:41] <SB-X> and usecode
[21:28:45] <SB-X> it needs its data
[21:28:49] <jan_here> quality= 126
[21:28:57] <SB-X> and if it cant find it it wont even show the usage as you saw :)
[21:29:01] <wjp> you just asked that one :-)
[21:29:27] * wjp retrieves answer from query cache
[21:29:28] <jan_here> oh.. didn't scroll quality 66
[21:29:33] <wjp> <wjp> jan_here: I don't see any doors/chests or anything that it would open
[21:29:37] <wjp> 66? let's see
[21:30:09] <wjp> there's a locked chest in chunk (1089,2555)
[21:30:16] <wjp> um, at coords (1089,2555) I mean
[21:30:43] <jan_here> yes, thats a chest in monitor..
[21:30:51] <wjp> and a door at (2953,95)
[21:31:19] <jan_here> where is that ?
[21:31:53] <wjp> the key was in a chest at (2951, 124) incidentally :-)
[21:32:01] <wjp> so that door would be quite nearby
[21:32:18] <wjp> a bit south of where you found the key
[21:32:39] <jan_here> it was on a corpse IIRC
[21:32:47] <wjp> oh?
[21:33:04] <wjp> could be that was a usecode-generated key I guess
[21:33:15] <wjp> there are more places that the same quality was used for two key/door combos
[21:33:39] <wjp> those coords are in the Castle of the White Dragon
[21:33:56] <wjp> no, wait
[21:34:24] <wjp> temple of discipline
[21:34:48] <jan_here> 1089,2555 is the temple, right?
[21:35:54] <wjp> the basement is somewhere else on the map
[21:36:10] <wjp> (around (2951, 124))
[21:36:20] <wjp> 1089,2555 is monitor
[21:36:55] <wjp> the inn, it seems
[21:37:26] <wjp> so, did my item-database pass the test? :-)
[21:37:27] <jan_here> yes. the key opens a chest
[21:37:35] <jan_here> it's really cool
[21:38:53] <jan_here> a lock is a lock, it does not say whether door or chest?
[21:39:33] <wjp> locks and keys are only matched up by quality
[21:39:38] <wjp> the key doesn't specify if it's for a door or chest
[21:39:51] <wjp> (at least, not as far as we have been able to find out)
[21:40:08] <jan_here> and the lock doesn't either ?
[21:40:32] <wjp> there's no such thing as a lock, really
[21:41:05] <wjp> it's just the usecode that determines what to do
[21:43:58] <jan_here> if I get the game to crash.. shall I psot /send it to to you (with debug output) ?
[21:44:05] <jan_here> the team I mean
[21:45:22] <wjp> a gdb backtrace would also be very useful
[21:46:27] * SB-X bends the lock, because there is no lock.
[21:47:01] <jan_here> I'll see what I can do but most times I will probably not run the game in gdb
[21:48:13] --> Cahaan has joined #exult
[21:50:00] <jan_here> wjp: what can your db tell me about npcs?
[21:51:46] <SB-X> run with coredumps enabled
[21:51:50] <SB-X> and you dont need to run it with gdb
[21:53:26] <jan_here> err... I shamefully have to ask how to do that.
[21:53:33] <SB-X> if your shell is bash you'd run "ulimit -c unlimited" before exult
[21:55:08] <SB-X> the core file will be put in the directory you run exult from if it crashes
[21:56:25] <wjp> npcs? not much
[21:57:55] <wjp> no, it won't... (core file)
[21:58:01] <wjp> sdl's parachute prevents it
[21:58:05] <SB-X> :(
[21:58:07] <SB-X> oops
[21:58:10] <SB-X> forgot about that
[21:58:14] <SB-X> disable from configure?
[21:58:19] <wjp> ./configure --enable-debug --disable-sdl-parachute
[21:58:27] <SB-X> :|
[21:58:28] <SB-X> :)
[22:00:52] <jan_here> ucxt.. how do I specify the function number.. it wont find 0020, 20, 0x20 ?
[22:01:21] <jan_here> game just crashed.. again at the northgate of monitor..
[22:02:59] <jan_here> the debug output isn
[22:03:05] <jan_here> t really telling anything..
[22:05:38] <Zxcvb> quit
[22:05:41] <-- Zxcvb has left IRC ("ircII EPIC4-1.0.1 -- Are we there yet?")
[22:06:11] <wjp> there probably is no function 20
[22:06:41] <wjp> try -a as the function number to have it output everything
[22:06:42] <SB-X> Zxcvb's client is on voice command
[22:08:36] <jan_here> are we talking about functions like this: [0x1c]: get_item_quality(08de80f0) = 00de?
[22:08:49] <SB-X> no
[22:08:55] <jan_here> I see.
[22:09:04] <SB-X> usecode functions
[22:09:21] <SB-X> those like in that message are externs or intrinsics i think
[22:10:46] <jan_here> hmm.. how can I look at those?
[22:11:41] <SB-X> if they are references to usecode functions then print that usecode function
[22:11:47] <SB-X> you can see the entire thing at once like wjp said
[22:11:56] <SB-X> "ucxt -si -a > serpentisle.usecode" ?
[22:13:01] <SB-X> if they are intrinsics you have to look at exult source
[22:15:27] <jan_here> actually I wanted to look at the original intrinsic functions, those that are UNKNOWN.
[22:16:40] <jan_here> okay, a little ambitious, I know..
[22:18:57] <SB-X> look at the original u7 source? :)
[22:20:27] <jan_here> would that actually be illegal to deassemble u7?
[22:22:00] <jan_here> have you done it for exult?
[22:22:19] <SB-X> i havnt done anything for exult
[22:22:26] <SB-X> i think they just used standard reverse engineering
[22:22:42] <SB-X> maybe they got some hardcoded values from the exe
[22:22:44] <SB-X> no idea
[22:23:18] <jan_here> Iam too stupid for this .. :) mabe lord british gives me a new job as fool on his court
[22:24:28] <SB-X> too stupid for what?
[22:24:39] <SB-X> you just have to type that command
[22:24:44] <SB-X> and you can see all the usecode
[22:34:19] <wjp> we figured most of the intrinsics out by staring at usecode
[22:34:39] <wjp> it helps that you know which function belongs to which item
[22:34:56] <wjp> and strings that are spoken are really useful
[22:36:53] <jan_here> so you did not actually take the executables apart too?
[22:39:08] <jan_here> without wanting to be acussed of flattering: almost a herculean task. cudos
[22:43:21] <wjp> we didn't do everything ourselves, though. A group of other people were responsible for decoding most of the usecode format
[22:49:04] <wjp> pity the game selection features of exult aren't as nice as pentagram's
[22:49:11] <wjp> makes having multiple languages a bit of a pain
[22:59:37] <wjp> time to go
[22:59:40] <wjp> 'night
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[23:50:05] <jan_here> time to sleep. It was real cool talking to you
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