#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 6 Dec 2000 (GMT)

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[00:02:49] <wjp> testing agan
[00:02:54] <wjp> again, even
[00:20:23] --> matt|work has joined #exult
[00:28:25] --- wjp has changed the topic to: Welcome to the semi-official Exult channel!
[00:32:33] --> exultbot has joined #exult
[00:32:38] --- wjp has changed the topic to: Welcome to the semi-official Exult channel!!
[00:32:40] --- wjp has changed the topic to: Welcome to the semi-official Exult channel!
[00:33:05] * wjp is off to bed. Goodnight all
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[10:59:59] <Nadir> 'morning
[11:03:40] <Kirben> Hi
[11:05:42] <Nadir> exultbot: hi
[11:05:42] <exultbot> Hi Nadir!
[11:20:23] <Nadir> HOINH
[11:20:31] <Nadir> OOPS, wrong window
[11:20:42] <Nadir> bye
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[13:18:45] <jameson> Hi!
[13:19:17] <jameson> Hmm... well...
[13:19:20] <jameson> Bye!
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[14:15:08] <TonyHoyt> *chuckles* Oh well. May all no news go well for you! *g*
[14:15:15] <wjp> :-)
[14:16:47] <TonyHoyt> Well, not to sound like a broken record or a overly curious kid but, What are you doing now?
[14:17:09] <TonyHoyt> No wait, rephrase that, "What have you been working on, exult related, recently?"
[14:20:03] <wjp> ummm... not that much really
[14:20:05] <wjp> fixed a crash, added a cheat
[14:20:13] <TonyHoyt> *laughs* Another cheat?!
[14:20:18] <wjp> heal party
[14:20:23] <TonyHoyt> What cheat this time. And what was the crash actually?
[14:20:30] <TonyHoyt> *ponders* That's cool.
[14:20:37] <wjp> blowing up monsters with blackrock caused a crash
[14:20:51] <wjp> (resurrect, heal, cure and feed party, in fact)
[14:20:52] <TonyHoyt> Ya know It would be cool if you could do something like this.
[14:21:40] <TonyHoyt> Why not have ".command" structure for all your commands, that call scripts instead and allow developers to make there own commands and such. Actually that's not that usefull ignore that.
[14:31:59] <wjp> I'm going home
[14:32:00] <wjp> bbl
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[15:12:27] <wjp> back
[15:27:32] <TonyHoyt> Hi Wjp.
[17:21:47] --> jameson has joined #exult
[17:22:07] <jameson> Hi!
[17:22:13] <TonyHoyt> Hello.
[17:25:45] --> freedman has joined #Exult
[17:29:51] <freedman> exultbot: hi
[17:29:51] <exultbot> Hi freedman!
[17:59:01] <wjp> back
[17:59:08] <wjp> hi Jeff, jameson
[17:59:14] <jameson> Hi!
[17:59:20] <TonyHoyt> wb wjp.
[17:59:25] <wjp> thx
[18:00:18] <TonyHoyt> What are you up to? Much?
[18:00:19] <freedman> Hi
[18:01:02] <wjp> no, not really
[18:01:06] <freedman> We're in bug-fixing mode. Seems like we've gotten about 20 recently.
[18:01:15] <wjp> yup
[18:01:35] <wjp> we're squashing them by the dozen
[18:02:01] * wjp just fixed Exult aborting when exult.cfg isn't there
[18:02:34] <freedman> Yup. BTW, can I close the bug about the 'Windows close button'?
[18:02:45] <wjp> I think it's not windows specific
[18:03:20] <freedman> But is it really a bug?
[18:03:36] <wjp> yes, exult ignores the SDL_QUIT event in intro's, conversations
[18:03:42] <wjp> probably endgame too
[18:03:54] <wjp> oh... hmm...
[18:04:11] <freedman> Seems okay, since you can just hit ESC to end those.
[18:05:09] <wjp> it should probably be fixed in the menus, though
[18:05:44] <freedman> Yes. Shouldn't be too hard. Maybe I'll look tonight.
[18:05:49] <wjp> I'll do it now
[18:05:56] <wjp> should take about 30 seconds :-)
[18:06:00] <freedman> Cool!
[18:07:11] <wjp> I'm ok with changing the bug to "Won't Fix"
[18:07:30] <TonyHoyt> Won't fix because it's not a bug?
[18:07:35] <freedman> No problem here.
[18:07:51] <wjp> ok, fixed
[18:09:24] <wjp> committed.
[18:09:29] --- wjp is now known as wjp|dinner
[18:09:35] <wjp|dinner> see you later
[18:10:01] <freedman> Bye
[18:10:08] <jameson> Bye!
[18:10:23] <freedman> Any progress on the Alpha port?
[18:11:13] <jameson> Yes. After slightly modifying some of the compiler's header files and forcing most system header files into std::, I managed to compile it.
[18:11:22] <jameson> I'm having problems with linking, though.
[18:11:37] <freedman> That STL stuff again?
[18:11:46] <jameson> The standard GNU ld doesn't like the object files generated by cxx, so a special version that understands --style=compaq is needed.
[18:11:59] <jameson> (Actually, all versions claim to understand it, but very few really do).
[18:12:18] <jameson> I copied a working ld (plus libraries) from one of Compaq's Test Drive systems...
[18:12:43] <jameson> Works fine so far, only two things appear to be missing now:
[18:12:52] <jameson> undefined reference to `int Game_object::find_nearby<T0=Game_object>(Exult_vector<T0>&, Tile_coord, int, int, int, int, int)'
[18:13:00] <jameson> undefined reference to `Actor::get_tile_info(Actor*, Game_window*, Chunk_object_list*, int, int, int&, int&)'
[18:13:11] <jameson> Have any of them changed recently?
[18:13:25] * TonyHoyt is looooooooooost but that's okay *g*
[18:13:39] <freedman> Not really recently. Could it be possible they're inlined?
[18:13:52] <jameson> I'll check that...
[18:14:32] <freedman> Well, this bug-fixing is kind of dull, and it's been going on for MONTHS
[18:15:31] <freedman> I'd really like to get started on a map-editor. A first step is the GTK shape-browser in the 'mapedit' directory.
[18:15:39] <TonyHoyt> Most of it is really just getting BG to work, correct? Most of the system is there, it's just getting the old games working 100%. Eh?
[18:16:34] <freedman> Most is cosmetic stuff and cleanup. I don't see any plot-stopping bugs currently.
[18:16:50] <freedman> And yes, it's all BG.
[18:17:07] <TonyHoyt> The Love Bug for Forge of the Blacksword fixed?
[18:17:44] * TonyHoyt thinks it was but that's the only thing he can remember causing a problem with finishing the game all the way through.
[18:17:52] <freedman> It worked the last time I tried it...
[18:18:13] <TonyHoyt> What about SI Support. Did the paperdoll support for SI ever get finished?
[18:18:22] <freedman> Anyway, I'm at work, so I'll check back a bit later.
[18:18:29] <TonyHoyt> Later.
[18:18:47] <freedman> SI: Not yet. Colourless was the only one working on SI specifically.
[18:19:16] <jameson> Short update: Both were static. I changed that and am tring again.
[18:19:17] <TonyHoyt> Hmm Drat. That's what I want to play again! Not BG as much.
[18:19:19] <jameson> See you!
[18:19:46] <-- freedman has left IRC (Leaving)
[18:22:51] <TonyHoyt> What have you been up to in the way of Exult, Jameson?
[18:23:20] <jameson> I've been trying to port it to Alpha/Linux, which has proven to be relatively non-trivial ;-)
[18:24:24] <jameson> Technically, we have access to almost the same stuff that ia32/Linux (or i386/Linux, if you like that better) has, but the C++ compiler's Alpha port is broken.
[18:24:28] <TonyHoyt> That stinks. God I swear that must be one the bigest problems with open-source multi-platform design. All the hacks and such to get things to work on all the various platforms. What basicly is causing you to pull your hair out?
[18:25:04] <TonyHoyt> The Compiler is broken?
[18:25:06] <jameson> Exult itself has only a few minor issues, like assuming that long has 32 bits (it has 64 on the Alpha).
[18:25:42] <jameson> Yes. g++ 2.95.2 is broken on the Alpha, which is why we don't have Mozilla or new KDE versions.
[18:26:21] <jameson> Fortunately, the gcc steering commitee has finally decided to put out a 2.95.3 interim release, since 3.0.0 is being delayed, so there's a real chance that this will be fixed in a few months.
[18:26:32] <TonyHoyt> Thats a big issue. But I guess if you typedef things and such to explicit variable types (U32, U8, etc) that shouldn't be a problem.
[18:27:11] <jameson> Yes, those typedefs weren't really a problem. However, since I wanted to run Exult on the Alpha anyway, I used the only other C++ compiler there is, Compaq's cxx.
[18:27:27] <TonyHoyt> Ahhh so your hopeing that 2.95.3 will resolve all your problems? But that brings up the point, what about diffrent systems and diffrent compilers? Do you have to watch for that?
[18:27:43] <jameson> This compiler has the advantage of working and understanding most of g++'s extensions, but not all of them.
[18:27:56] <jameson> Yes, you have to look out for that a lot.
[18:28:15] <wjp|dinner> jameson: about those find_nearby and get_tile_info...
[18:28:23] --- wjp|dinner is now known as wjp
[18:28:26] <wjp> (back,btw)
[18:28:30] <TonyHoyt> That's nasssty. So ..... oh, hi wjp.
[18:28:52] <wjp> jameson: did you check both the .cc and the .h for the inline tag?
[18:30:40] --> _jameson has joined #exult
[18:30:49] * _jameson curses his ISP
[18:30:57] <-- jameson has left IRC (Ping timeout for jameson[p3EE053AF.dip.t-dialin.net])
[18:30:57] <_jameson> Sorry, I was killed.
[18:31:05] <wjp> did you get my last couple of messages?
[18:31:05] <TonyHoyt> wb.
[18:31:06] <_jameson> Ah, there goes my corpse.
[18:31:10] <_jameson> Thanks.
[18:31:12] <_jameson> No, I'm sorry...
[18:31:19] <_jameson> (or, rather, my ISP should be ;-)
[18:31:22] --- _jameson is now known as jameson
[18:31:23] <wjp> jameson: about those find_nearby and get_tile_info...
[18:31:28] <wjp> ameson: did you check both the .cc and the .h for the inline tag?
[18:31:34] <wjp> insert 'j' :-)
[18:31:44] <jameson> Only the .h
[18:31:44] * wjp needs to work on his copy-paste skills
[18:32:00] <wjp> I had to remove an inline in the .cc for the BeOS version
[18:32:06] * wjp is currently checking the .cc's
[18:32:32] <wjp> in fact, in had to remove the inline from get_tile_info
[18:32:40] <wjp> s/in had/I had/
[18:32:42] * wjp sighs
[18:33:01] <jameson> Don't Panic! (in large, friendly letters) ;-)
[18:33:09] <wjp> :-)
[18:33:32] <wjp> (see actors.cc, line 615)
[18:34:14] <jameson> THX, I'll try that.
[18:34:29] <jameson> However, Game_object::find_nearby doesn't appear to have that...
[18:34:35] <wjp> :-(
[18:34:41] <TonyHoyt> Back from Dinner officaly, wjp? You seem in and out of here a lot.
[18:35:07] <wjp> yes, I can't be here 24/7 ;-)
[18:35:30] * wjp wishes he could :-)
[18:36:21] <TonyHoyt> *laughs* Well every time I see you here, your in for like. Five minutes then disappear to go somewhere. It's wierd at times.
[18:36:22] <jameson> wjp: This fixed the problem with the Actor class!
[18:36:40] <wjp> excellent!
[18:37:06] <wjp> now the find_nearby...
[18:38:02] <wjp> hmm...
[18:39:19] <wjp> try adding a piece of dummy code in objs.cc somewhere, that uses the find_nearby function with a Game_object* vector
[18:39:42] <jameson> OK...
[18:41:18] <wjp> TonyHoyt: yes, I often pop in here if I have a few minutes of spare time :-)
[18:41:35] <TonyHoyt> *nods* Sure seems like it.
[18:45:15] <jameson> No, didn't help (or the compiler is optimizing that part of the code out, which I don't believe).
[18:45:30] <wjp> :-(
[18:46:00] * wjp wonders if find_nearby is used with anything other than a Game_object*
[18:46:35] <jameson> int Game_object::find_nearby<T0=Game_object>(Exult_vector<T0>&, Tile_coord, int, int, int, int, int)
[18:46:36] * TonyHoyt checkes out screen shots of UO2 for kicks.
[18:46:45] <jameson> (same with TO=Egg_object)
[18:47:14] <wjp> and the dummy code didn't remove a single error?
[18:47:15] <wjp> bah
[18:48:58] <wjp> in what files does it report the missing references?
[18:49:05] <jameson> The library has the following:
[18:49:06] <jameson> 0000000000006470 T Game_object::find_nearby(Exult_vector<Game_object*>&, int, int, int, int, int) const
[18:49:06] <jameson> 0000000000006330 T Game_object::find_nearby_actors(Exult_vector<Actor*>&, int, int) const
[18:49:06] <jameson> 00000000000063d0 T Game_object::find_nearby_eggs(Exult_vector<Egg_object*>&, int, int) const
[18:49:19] <jameson> But not the static function, so it has to have been removed before...
[18:49:36] <jameson> It reports the missing ref as effects.o(.text+0x2794): undefined reference to `int Game_object::find_nearby<T0=Game_object>(Exult_vector<T0>&, Tile_coord, int, int, int, int, int)'
[18:49:40] <jameson> (for example)
[18:50:47] <wjp> could you paste your sample code?
[18:51:29] <wjp> um.. dummy code, I mean
[18:52:16] <jameson> I've deleted it already... (BTW: -O0 doesn't help here, either).
[18:52:34] <jameson> It was in has_quantity(), and compared one of its pointers with NULL.
[18:52:46] <jameson> If the pointer was NULL, it was supposed to call that very function.
[18:53:01] <wjp> your dummy code?
[18:53:05] <wjp> hmm
[18:53:29] <jameson> Wait, EMACS /has/ undo... ;-)
[18:53:43] <jameson> if (!gwin)
[18:53:43] <jameson> {
[18:53:43] <jameson> Tile_coord foo;
[18:53:43] <jameson> Exult_vector<Game_object*> bar;
[18:53:43] <jameson> return Game_object::find_nearby(bar, foo, 0, 1, 2);
[18:53:43] <jameson> }
[18:54:13] <wjp> try changing bar to an explicit Game_object_vector
[18:54:25] <wjp> (shouldn't make any difference, but who knows...)
[18:54:53] <jameson> the generated .o looks the same...
[18:55:00] <jameson> Same problems when linking.
[18:55:33] <jameson> Unfortunately, I have to go now...
[18:55:46] <wjp> k, see you later
[18:55:57] <jameson> Anyway, it's just this one problem; other than that, it almost builds!
[18:56:09] <jameson> I'm not coming back today; probably tomorrow, though.
[18:56:25] <jameson> BTW, where's Max these days? He hasn't logged onto the Uni computers since Dec 1st...
[18:56:37] <wjp> he did commit some things yesterday
[18:56:43] <jameson> (or should that be "into"...)
[18:56:52] <jameson> So he's still alive... good.
[18:57:00] <wjp> and he was here I think, too
[18:57:09] <jameson> OK, enjoy your time without me bothering you and thanks for your help,
[18:57:11] <jameson> Bye!
[18:57:14] <wjp> bye
[18:57:16] <-- jameson has left IRC (Leaving)
[18:57:52] <TonyHoyt> ack, everyone is leaveing.
[18:58:00] * TonyHoyt is always late on good byes.
[19:02:54] * wjp continues work on the exultbot logs
[19:03:38] * TonyHoyt goes batty trying to kill an bug in his C code.
[19:16:38] --> matto has joined #exult
[19:16:47] <matto> greetings
[19:16:49] <TonyHoyt> Hi Matto.
[19:16:50] <wjp> hi Matt
[19:17:04] <matto> wjp: I've been reading book 9 of Robert Jordan
[19:17:10] <wjp> and?
[19:17:13] <matto> last night it suddenly got good and I stayed up _way_ too late
[19:17:13] <wjp> like it?
[19:17:18] <wjp> :-)
[19:17:25] <matto> yeah
[19:17:54] <matto> I'm on page 343 now
[19:18:11] * TonyHoyt scraches his head "That author sounds familure. Is he the guy that recently said that the story to his book still has at least three more books to go before it finishes?"
[19:18:15] <matto> (it just talked about Mat planning to escape with Luca's circus)
[19:18:37] <matto> TonyHoyt: probably hehe
[19:18:55] <wjp> TonyHoyt: sounds like the one :-)
[19:19:02] <TonyHoyt> I've also heard that one of his books was just a complete re-cap of all the past books up to that point.
[19:19:20] <matto> wjp: things got terribly interesting when Elayne, Aviendha and Min all walked in tthe room where Rand was. I wouldn't stop reading at that point, I had been waiting for them to have that little chit-chat since like book 2 hehe. It's about time!!
[19:19:34] <wjp> yup :-)
[19:19:38] <matto> TonyHoyt: no that can't be right
[19:19:59] <TonyHoyt> The way people have been talking about him is that he's best to be avoided. Only because even after 9 books the blasted story still isn't resolved. And seems to drag a lot.
[19:20:25] <wjp> it's still a great story :-)
[19:20:31] <matto> TonyHoyt: I kind of felt it was dragging but like I siad, book 9 suddenly got _very_ interesting =]
[19:20:45] <matto> if it keeps up, it might rank among the top books of the series
[19:20:51] <wjp> matto: it gets even better :-)
[19:20:52] <matto> everyone says book 6 is the best
[19:21:17] <matto> wjp: that's the last thing I need with finals coming up next week
[19:21:27] <wjp> hehe :-)
[19:21:30] <wjp> ouch
[19:21:32] <TonyHoyt> Hmm Interesting. Well "Dragon Bone Chair" Has got me at this point. We'll see when I can get to other stories.
[19:22:14] <wjp> have you read Wizards' First Rule yet?
[19:23:13] <matto> "None of that matters a hair, not now. You and Aviendha and Min and I are what we need to talk about. And we will. We _all_ will, Rand al'Thor, and you are _not_ leaving the Palace until we do!"
[19:23:23] * matto is thinking "It's about time!!!"
[19:23:30] <wjp> :-)
[19:24:04] <matto> "Rand a'Thor," Nynaeve shrieked, "that is the most outrageous thing I ever heard out of your mouth!"
[19:24:05] <matto> hehe
[19:24:17] <matto> Lan had begun an intense study of the contents of his pipe's bowl.
[19:24:19] <matto> hhahaa
[19:24:58] <TonyHoyt> Oooooooooooooooooookay
[19:25:16] <matto> TonyHoyt: sorry, just quoting some of my favorite lines
[19:25:31] <TonyHoyt> *nods* I kind of figured that.
[19:29:53] * wjp is tempted to reread Winter's Heart
[19:31:03] <matto> I'm at a spot now where no matter where the story goes it will still be interesting
[19:31:09] <matto> which has not been the case in the past =]
[19:31:20] <wjp> :-)
[19:31:33] <matto> I have an idea what the climax of this book will be ...
[19:31:43] <matto> I hope he doesn't disappoint me! hehe
[19:31:57] <wjp> don't worry... the ending is _really_ good :-)
[19:32:13] <matto> does it leave you wanting book 10? hehe
[19:32:21] * wjp sighs :-)
[19:32:36] <wjp> *must have book 10*
[19:32:44] <wjp> must... have... book 10...
[19:32:50] <wjp> must...... have....... ARGH
[19:33:06] <matto> sorry you'll have to wait another 2 years or however long it takes him to write these things =]
[19:33:45] <wjp> the two months I had to wait between 8 and 9 were already too long
[19:33:48] * wjp sighs again
[19:33:53] <matto> 2 months?
[19:33:59] <wjp> that's when I finished part 8
[19:34:05] <matto> sheesh
[19:34:18] <matto> I had 8 bought and read shortly after it was released
[19:34:28] <matto> I couldn't even remember Faile had been kidnapped
[19:34:32] <wjp> I didn't even know about the series back then
[19:34:44] <matto> and my brother was like "Faile kidnapped.." and I'm like "How could you possibly know that without reading book 9?" hehe
[19:34:52] <wjp> hehe :-)
[19:35:00] <matto> I can't remember anything hardly that happened in book 8
[19:35:14] <matto> except that Rand killed his own men hehe
[19:35:20] <wjp> :-)
[19:35:27] <wjp> I don't think very much happened in book 8...
[19:35:30] <matto> oh and the attack by the Ash'aman
[19:35:35] <matto> yeah book 8.. nothing happened
[19:35:47] <matto> I was ratherfrustrated after finishing the book
[19:36:03] <TonyHoyt> Got o go guys. bye.
[19:36:04] <matto> "I've just read 1000 pages and I've realized _nothing_ happened in those 1000 pages!"
[19:36:07] <matto> TonyHoyt: bye
[19:36:11] <-- TonyHoyt has left #Exult
[19:36:26] <matto> tony didn't like us talking about Robert Jordan =]
[19:36:34] <wjp> I guess :-)
[19:36:47] <wjp> or he went to buy the series :-)
[19:36:50] <matto> hehehe
[19:37:42] <matto> I can't believe how good book 9 has gotten!
[19:37:49] <matto> I was expecting another book 8hehe
[19:38:03] <matto> book 6 wasn't too shabby either
[19:38:18] <matto> but people told me it was so good that I was kindof already prepared for it
[19:40:02] <wjp> bah... connection to the univ. keeps getting cut off
[19:40:22] <matto> you haven't dropped from irc at least
[19:40:35] <wjp> no, that's because I'm at home :-)
[19:40:39] <matto> oh =]
[19:40:46] <wjp> exultbot might drop though...
[19:40:51] <wjp> he _is_ at the univ. :-(
[19:41:15] <matto> so what's the deal with this Morindin guy or whatever his name is? do we know anything about him other than he just mysteriously appeared last book?
[19:41:30] <wjp> well... a couple of things
[19:41:39] <matto> Moridin.. sorry
[19:42:04] <wjp> but I'm not saying anything about that...
[19:42:09] <wjp> maybe after you've finished book 9 :-)
[19:42:12] <matto> heh
[19:42:14] <matto> dangit!
[19:42:28] <matto> ok I have read the first meeting of the Forsaken already
[19:42:50] <matto> Asangar and Osangar are the two forsaken that Moirraine (sp?) fights at the end of book 1 right?
[19:43:08] <wjp> hmmm.... don't remember exactly
[19:43:18] <matto> I'm pretty sure they are
[19:43:19] <wjp> one of them is for sure
[19:43:24] <matto> they are re-incarnated
[19:43:31] <matto> except asangar is a woman now heh
[19:43:41] <wjp> would be an interesting experience :-)
[19:43:48] <matto> indeed
[19:44:27] <matto> if I could be a woman for a month... maybe I would finally start to understand how they think.. hehe
[19:44:35] <wjp> :-)
[19:44:55] <matto> do you have any idea who the maid was who freed Moghedien?
[19:45:05] <matto> my brother says it was a male forsaken reincarnated as a woman
[19:45:16] <matto> but it's been a while since I read that book
[19:45:39] <wjp> let me see
[19:45:40] <matto> and while we're at it.. who killed Asmodean? hehe... so much speculation
[19:45:54] <wjp> Asmodean is roadkill, according to RJ himself :-)
[19:46:05] <matto> what does that mean?
[19:46:14] <wjp> not a clue who killed him, though
[19:46:21] <matto> oh
[19:46:24] <wjp> he's gone forever, not going to come back
[19:46:30] <wjp> apparently
[19:46:33] <matto> hehe
[19:46:35] <matto> too bad, I liked him
[19:47:16] <matto> it would be interesting to have Robert Jordan sitting on a panel and a vast auditorium of people all taking turns asking him questions
[19:47:21] <matto> "Who killed Asmodean?"
[19:47:37] <matto> RJ: "Errrr... uhhh... I can't reveal that at this time." *audience heaves a vast sigh of impatience*
[19:47:58] --> Fingolfin has joined #exult
[19:48:01] <Fingolfin> hiya
[19:48:04] <matto> max!
[19:48:08] <wjp> hi
[19:48:10] <Fingolfin> hi matt
[19:48:13] <Fingolfin> hi wjp
[19:48:37] <wjp> matto: about freeing Moghedien: was that in book 8?
[19:48:46] <matto> wjp: either 8 or 7
[19:49:07] <wjp> page 278 of book 8 she's already free
[19:49:18] <Fingolfin> wjp: you know Dominik (aka Dominus dragon) who made the FAQ? He is a german like me, and I talked to him in several emails...
[19:49:24] <matto> there was a maid in Egwene's Aes Sedai camp whose name began with an H who freed Moghedien
[19:49:30] <wjp> Halima
[19:49:31] <matto> but the maid was someone else in disguise
[19:49:33] <matto> yes
[19:49:33] <wjp> IIRC
[19:49:38] <Fingolfin> wjp: now, I thought it might be nice to have an "official" FAQ
[19:49:41] <wjp> you don't know who?
[19:49:46] <wjp> Fingolfin: yup
[19:49:48] <matto> ok what does IIRC stand for? hehe I always see it, can't figure it out
[19:49:56] <wjp> if I remember correctly
[19:50:00] <matto> aahhh
[19:50:09] * matto goes and gets book 8
[19:50:14] <Fingolfin> wjp: I asked. He would be happy to make the "unofficial" and official FAQ, and join the team (so he can update it on the server)
[19:50:19] <wjp> you'll need book 7
[19:50:24] <Fingolfin> wjp: I like the idea, what do you think?
[19:50:29] <matto> wjp: why? =(
[19:50:34] <Fingolfin> wjp: we would need to ask jeff of course
[19:50:39] <wjp> Fingolfin: sounds good
[19:50:43] <matto> Fingolfin: the guy who is never satisfied with Exult? =]
[19:50:47] <wjp> matto: because she's freed in book 7
[19:50:53] <matto> Dominik
[19:50:57] <matto> wjp: blast! I don't have book 7 here
[19:51:03] <wjp> me neither :-(
[19:51:08] <matto> just 8 and 9
[19:51:09] * wjp only has 8 and 9
[19:51:10] <wjp> :-)
[19:51:20] <wjp> still thinking about getting the others...
[19:51:22] * matto has them all but books 1-7 are at parents' house
[19:51:22] <Fingolfin> matto: in fact, he is very happy about it; and I think never being satisified (thus constantly improving) with somthin is good ;)
[19:51:26] <wjp> 7 books are a bit pricy though
[19:51:34] <matto> Fingolfin: I know I am just kidding
[19:51:42] <Fingolfin> what %$ books are you talkin about?
[19:51:49] <wjp> Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series
[19:51:51] <Fingolfin> matto: bah, I don't believe you ;)
[19:51:54] <Fingolfin> 'k
[19:51:54] <matto> Fingolfin: the only thing is that sometimes it seems like he is nagging the developers to fix the bugs and I don't like that
[19:52:05] <wjp> he is?
[19:52:13] * wjp hadn't noticed
[19:52:13] <Fingolfin> matto: hm, ok, I never noticed that
[19:52:26] <matto> oh... I guess I am just overly sensitive =]
[19:52:37] * matto gets nagged about daphne far too often
[19:52:44] <wjp> :-)
[19:52:59] <matto> "When will you have DVD support ready?" "Umm... when I get around to it, feel free to add it yourself" hehehe
[19:53:04] <wjp> bah, Mozilla crashed
[19:53:27] * matto goes and gets book 8
[19:53:40] * wjp looks up prices for books 1-7
[19:53:56] <matto> beware of those paperback versions, the covers fall off really easily =]
[19:54:00] <wjp> hardback or not... hmmm...
[19:54:11] <matto> out of my first 7 books, over 50% have no cover now hehe
[19:54:18] <wjp> I've got 9 in hardback, and 8 in paperback
[19:54:27] <matto> 1-7 paperback, 8 & 9 hardback
[19:54:39] * matto really should get 1-7 in hardback if they are available
[19:54:47] <matto> that's a lot of money though
[19:54:55] <wjp> amazon has a nice 1-8 hardback gift set
[19:55:00] <wjp> pretty cheap too, IIRC
[19:55:05] <matto> $140 if each is $20 and that is a low estimate.. ouch
[19:55:10] <wjp> relatively cheap, anyway
[19:55:21] <wjp> (ISBN 0312875045, if you're interested)
[19:55:40] <matto> I should have my brothers get me those for Christmas
[19:55:46] <matto> and turn the paperbacks over to them =]
[19:56:30] * wjp doesn't have nearly enough brothers for that :-)
[19:56:38] <matto> hehe
[19:56:44] <matto> do either of you guys use GNOME?
[19:56:48] * wjp does
[19:56:49] <matto> oh wait max you're on a mac
[19:57:05] <Fingolfin> hm?
[19:57:12] * Fingolfin didn't pay attention
[19:57:13] <matto> wjp: you know how when you have windows open it has corresponding buttons at the bottom?
[19:57:24] <wjp> yes
[19:57:40] <matto> how do you make it so clicking once on an open window button minimizes it? I have to click twice
[19:57:52] <wjp> ummm...
[19:59:15] <matto> wjp: using Mandrake, eh?
[19:59:21] <wjp> yup
[19:59:24] <matto> Snak for Macintosh
[20:01:29] <matto> hmm the summary of book 8 seems to include more than the book itself does hehe
[20:02:07] <wjp> :-)
[20:02:20] <Fingolfin> xchat for linux... ;)
[20:02:25] <Fingolfin> but not clientinfo, ts ts
[20:02:58] <matto> yeah I wonder why that is.. hehe
[20:03:25] <matto> I just barely updated everything to bleeding edge
[20:03:39] <matto> I no doubt broke my nvidia glx drivers yet again in the process
[20:03:57] <wjp> 2.2.17? no 2.4.0test11? :-)
[20:04:03] <wjp> brb, getting some tea
[20:04:06] <matto> err.. not that bleeding edge =]
[20:04:14] <matto> Debian Unstable bleeding edge
[20:04:28] <matto> including Helix Gnome unstable
[20:04:41] <matto> it's nice because they have the latest Xfree86 CVS
[20:04:45] --- Fingolfin is now known as Fingolfin|busy
[20:05:20] <wjp> b
[20:06:14] <matto> I wonder what we'll have to change in order to use 2.4 ... I heard they changed ipchains yet again *groan*
[20:06:23] <matto> and I haven't even learned how to use ipchains yet! hehe
[20:06:43] <wjp> ipchains isn't that difficult :-)
[20:07:56] <matto> I'd like to use it as a replacement to hosts.allow/hosts.deny
[20:08:18] <wjp> I use it to firewall my father/brother's windows pc
[20:08:28] <wjp> (and this one)
[20:10:22] <wjp> do you know some large online bookstores?
[20:10:28] * wjp only knows amazon...
[20:10:49] <matto> www.barnesandnoble.com
[20:11:05] <matto> in fact, check out www.mysimon.com I believe
[20:11:13] <wjp> ok, thx
[20:11:14] <matto> it is a search engine that links to about 10 book stores
[20:15:20] <wjp> set of books 1-8 for $177 here
[20:15:39] <wjp> published in january 1900 :-)
[20:17:32] <matto> hehe
[20:17:39] <matto> that's a lot of money
[20:18:04] <matto> you don't notice when you buy then 1 at a time
[20:19:11] <wjp> yup :-(
[20:19:19] * wjp adds shipping, customs...
[20:19:27] <wjp> a _lot_ of money...
[20:22:38] <wjp> pity the $ costs so much currently
[20:23:23] <matto> ?
[20:23:35] * wjp lives in europe...
[20:23:39] <matto> I wasn't aware that the cost of a $ ever was anything other than a $ =]
[20:23:54] <wjp> it's currently about 2.60 guilders
[20:23:58] <wjp> it used to be under 2
[20:24:05] <matto> hmmm...
[20:26:29] <matto> got any laserdiscs from old arcade games? =]
[20:26:47] <wjp> no, sorry :-)
[20:26:56] <wjp> alphacraze.com has it for $150
[20:27:16] <matto> ahh.. too bad, we could have traded a couple laserdiscs for the RJ set to avoid your $ problem
[20:27:43] <matto> $150, eh?
[20:27:49] <wjp> yup
[20:28:07] <wjp> 1-8
[20:28:38] <matto> never even heard of this site hehe
[20:28:50] <wjp> it was on mysimon.com
[20:28:58] <matto> ahh mysimon... hehe
[20:30:22] <matto> what's Fallon Pride ?
[20:30:34] <wjp> in what context?
[20:31:01] <wjp> or page nr. if it's in book 9 :-)
[20:31:15] <matto> ah I see.... alphacraze says Fallon Pride is part of the Wheel of Time but I see it's a book about the war of 1812
[20:31:29] <wjp> ah...
[20:31:31] <wjp> hmm...
[20:31:58] <matto> have you seen that Wheel of Time art book?
[20:32:06] <wjp> "World of..." ?
[20:32:10] <matto> I think so
[20:32:14] <wjp> no
[20:32:29] <matto> it isn't very good =(
[20:32:32] <matto> poor art
[20:32:49] <wjp> yes, a couple of online reviews agree
[20:33:51] <matto> hey there are some RJ books in cassette form! cool!
[20:33:58] <wjp> yup :-)
[20:34:05] <matto> I wonder if it's abbreviated
[20:34:16] <wjp> most are abridged I think
[20:34:21] <matto> I can't imagine someone narrating an entire book
[20:34:27] <wjp> :-)
[20:34:41] <matto> maybe I'll ask for those for Christmas
[20:34:46] <matto> they are pretty cheap
[20:34:59] <matto> CD would be preferable though.. hmm..
[20:35:03] <wjp> :-)
[20:35:10] <wjp> try napster :-)
[20:35:18] <matto> hahaha
[20:35:24] * matto fires up gnapster
[20:35:49] <wjp> now why aren't there any bigger online bookstores around here...
[20:35:51] <wjp> grrr
[20:36:26] <matto> I don't know
[20:37:20] <matto> I found some Robert Jordan mp3's on napster =]
[20:37:38] <wjp> really?!?
[20:37:41] <matto> yes
[20:37:43] <wjp> oh my god...
[20:37:52] <matto> holy cow, 1 of 8 and it's 48 minutes long
[20:37:57] <matto> for book 7
[20:38:00] <matto> that _can't_ be right
[20:38:06] <matto> 48 * 8 minutes?
[20:38:29] <wjp> fast reader?
[20:38:49] <wjp> or was book 7 that really short one?
[20:39:50] <wjp> no, wait, that was part 4 of the Sword of Truth series I think
[20:39:52] <wjp> nm :-)
[20:39:55] <matto> well 6.4 hours worth of reading
[20:40:08] <matto> that's quite a bit
[20:40:10] <matto> IMO =]
[20:40:34] <wjp> yes, but not really enough for the entire book, right?
[20:40:49] <matto> well I don't know
[20:40:52] <matto> I am downloading 1 of 8 right now
[20:41:02] <matto> UGH this guy claims to be on cable but I'm only getting 5k/s
[20:41:11] <matto> faster! *cracks whip*
[20:41:20] <wjp> I'm on cable and I'm lucky to get 5K/s
[20:41:21] * Fingolfin|busy yawns
[20:41:22] <wjp> :-(
[20:41:28] <matto> what kind of cable is that? =]
[20:41:34] <wjp> don't get me started...
[20:41:35] --- Fingolfin|busy is now known as Fingolfin
[20:41:45] <matto> 5k/s from anywhere?
[20:41:48] * Fingolfin is really tired, but still has to do Analysis Homework
[20:41:54] <wjp> yup
[20:42:08] <Fingolfin> I think I will drop out here, will do my HW, read a bit (Darkover), and then go to bed early
[20:42:15] <matto> ok max
[20:42:26] * Fingolfin has DSL and often up to 90k/s ;)
[20:42:26] <wjp> ok, good luck with your homework and goodnight
[20:42:29] <Fingolfin> cya
[20:42:31] <wjp> grrr
[20:42:32] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC (42)
[20:42:46] <wjp> *sob* it's just not fair *sob*
[20:43:00] <matto> what's not fair?
[20:43:10] <wjp> 5K/s
[20:44:16] <matto> why aren't you getting more than that?
[20:44:24] <wjp> serial modem
[20:44:37] <wjp> and a _really_ bad ISP
[20:44:44] <matto> not cable?
[20:44:53] <wjp> yes, cable, but through a serial modem
[20:45:03] <matto> what the devil?
[20:45:10] <wjp> my thought exactly
[20:45:18] <matto> what's your theoretical thruput?
[20:45:24] <wjp> not to mention the 300 ping everywhere
[20:45:28] <wjp> the 15% packet loss
[20:45:34] <wjp> oh, even 27% atm
[20:45:44] <matto> 300 ping to your gateway?
[20:45:56] <wjp> about 100 to my gateway, but 300 to the next hop
[20:46:04] <wjp> (next hop anywhere)
[20:46:06] <matto> that sucks
[20:46:11] <wjp> yup
[20:47:17] * wjp hopes ADSL will get introduced here soon
[20:47:47] <matto> matt:/dosf/bmp2avi# ping 166.70.4.74
[20:47:48] <matto> PING 166.70.4.74 (166.70.4.74): 56 data bytes
[20:47:48] <matto> 64 bytes from 166.70.4.74: icmp_seq=0 ttl=253 time=19.0 ms
[20:47:48] <matto> 64 bytes from 166.70.4.74: icmp_seq=1 ttl=253 time=18.5 ms
[20:47:48] <matto> 64 bytes from 166.70.4.74: icmp_seq=2 ttl=253 time=17.2 ms
[20:47:56] <matto> that's my gateway
[20:48:15] <wjp> [wjp@aldur ~]$ ping 212.64.83.254
[20:48:15] <wjp> PING 212.64.83.254 (212.64.83.254): 56 data bytes
[20:48:15] <wjp> 64 bytes from 212.64.83.254: icmp_seq=0 ttl=254 time=186.3 ms
[20:48:15] <wjp> 64 bytes from 212.64.83.254: icmp_seq=1 ttl=254 time=274.9 ms
[20:48:15] <wjp> 64 bytes from 212.64.83.254: icmp_seq=2 ttl=254 time=435.2 ms
[20:48:15] <wjp> 64 bytes from 212.64.83.254: icmp_seq=3 ttl=254 time=185.1 ms
[20:48:30] <matto> ouch =]
[20:48:54] <wjp> --- www.redhat.com ping statistics ---
[20:48:55] <wjp> 29 packets transmitted, 21 packets received, 27% packet loss
[20:48:55] <wjp> round-trip min/avg/max = 342.6/470.3/642.4 ms
[20:49:16] <matto> 64 bytes from 216.148.218.195: icmp_seq=2 ttl=50 time=75.2 ms
[20:49:16] <matto> 64 bytes from 216.148.218.195: icmp_seq=3 ttl=50 time=72.3 ms
[20:49:16] <matto> --- www.redhat.com ping statistics ---
[20:49:16] <matto> 4 packets transmitted, 4 packets received, 0% packet loss
[20:49:16] <matto> round-trip min/avg/max = 71.5/73.5/75.2 ms
[20:49:39] <matto> 27% sheesh
[20:49:48] <matto> I take it your ISP doesn't care?
[20:49:54] <wjp> basically
[20:50:09] <wjp> they claim it's within "acceptable limits" or something
[20:50:17] <matto> blah
[20:50:47] <wjp> we got a 25% discount for a few months, but after that service was apparently ok again...
[20:51:37] * matto is listening to the beginning of the Crown of Swords mp3
[20:51:43] <wjp> :-)
[20:51:52] <matto> monthly cost, right? how much
[20:52:02] <wjp> 60 guilders
[20:52:10] <wjp> about... $25
[20:52:36] <wjp> but no hourly charges like for ordinary dial-up access
[20:52:42] <wjp> and that's the only good thing about it
[20:53:40] <matto> I am paying about $70/month
[20:53:48] <matto> a bit expensive but I use it every day
[20:54:04] <wjp> cable? DSL?
[20:54:34] <matto> $39/month to my ISP for a business account (13 static IP addresses, 50 megs of storage, uncapped bandwidth).. $29/month to phone company to DSL, 640k down, 256k up
[20:54:47] <wjp> not bad...
[20:55:00] <matto> I only use 2 IP's but it's still cool to have the rest =]
[20:55:52] <wjp> typical ADSL access here would be: 4 IP's 512k down, 128k up, "fair use" bandwidth, for about $65
[20:56:39] <wjp> no, actually 1Mbps down...
[20:56:45] <matto> *drool*
[20:56:51] <wjp> for only $7 more
[20:56:57] <matto> yeah if I used too much bandwidth I'd get in trouble =]
[20:57:02] <matto> but I haven't gotten any warnings yet...
[20:57:21] <wjp> as long as you don't d/l mp3's 24/7 you should be fine :-)
[20:57:22] <Kefka> whats with this multiple ip stuff
[20:57:29] <Kefka> we don't get that in the US
[20:57:40] <wjp> matto: don't you live in the US?
[20:57:44] <matto> Kefka: I do =]
[20:57:52] <matto> you need an ISP that rules hehe
[20:57:58] <wjp> hi, btw
[20:57:59] <Kefka> well, yours cost 39 more a month
[20:58:00] <Kefka> hi
[20:58:02] <Kefka> :)
[20:58:08] <matto> not 39 more.. 20 more..
[20:58:13] <matto> (19 for an individual account)
[20:58:21] <Kefka> oh
[20:58:43] <Kefka> still.. 13 static ips is pretty nice
[20:58:53] <wjp> I've only got 1 dynamic, currently
[20:58:57] <Kefka> you should be running tons of servers
[20:59:03] <Kefka> email, dns, news, etc.
[20:59:05] <matto> Kefka: I need my bandwidth
[20:59:07] <matto> =]
[20:59:11] <Kefka> hmm
[20:59:12] <matto> I'm running email and DNS
[20:59:14] <matto> and http
[20:59:17] <matto> no news
[20:59:50] <Kefka> nice to have a set up like that
[20:59:58] <wjp> they should really introduce ADSL here... everybody will switch from this cable ISP
[21:00:13] <matto> Kefka: yeah but it's a bit expensive though and I would like a faster upstream
[21:00:15] <Kefka> adsl is kinda bad though
[21:00:23] <Kefka> what you want is sdsl or vdsl
[21:00:29] <matto> cable users around here only pay $39 a month for 4 megabit (shared)
[21:00:31] <Kefka> but i think vdsl is only in europe
[21:00:32] <wjp> scroll back up to see what my ISP manages to "provide"...
[21:00:37] <matto> so they are getting like 400k/s downloads compared to my 65k/s
[21:00:59] <wjp> ADSL sounds pretty good to me, compared to that :-)
[21:01:10] <Kefka> 5k/s?
[21:01:10] <Kefka> heh
[21:01:27] <matto> I have RADSL whatever that is =]
[21:01:32] <matto> I find it very reliable
[21:01:37] <Kefka> i am on cable and never hit CLOSE to 400
[21:01:41] <wjp> really asynchronous digital subscriber line? ;-)
[21:01:44] <Kefka> max is about 150k/sec
[21:01:58] <wjp> or asymmetrical
[21:02:02] <wjp> oops :-)
[21:02:05] <Kefka> yeah
[21:02:05] <matto> dang I hit the 10 minute mark on this mp3 and I caught up to my download =(
[21:02:06] <Kefka> the latter
[21:02:15] <matto> Elaida and Alviaran were still having the conversation from scene 1 hehe
[21:02:27] <matto> BTW isn't Alviaran of the Black Ajah?
[21:02:29] * wjp thinks...
[21:02:32] <wjp> yup
[21:02:48] <matto> 150k/s would totally rule! I want it! =]
[21:02:48] <wjp> that's the.. ummm... Keeper right?
[21:02:59] <matto> yep... Elaida's assistant who basically has taken control hehe
[21:03:04] <Kefka> thats downstream, not up.. heh
[21:03:17] <wjp> yes, definitely black ajah
[21:03:34] <Kefka> i want 1mbps up and down
[21:03:42] <Kefka> for $40 a month w/ a static i[p
[21:03:43] <Kefka> ip
[21:03:45] * wjp sighs
[21:03:56] <Kefka> and lets see..
[21:04:03] <Kefka> free web hosting
[21:04:08] <Kefka> with 100 megs of space
[21:04:11] <wjp> free domain registration?
[21:04:14] <Kefka> and "unlimited" band width
[21:04:17] <Kefka> sure, why not
[21:04:17] <matto> at the university I was uploading a file to anohter guy at 150k/s ... I wanted that at home
[21:04:25] <Kefka> :)
[21:04:36] <wjp> I should get a cd-writer at the univ. :-)
[21:04:53] <Kefka> get a Plextor 12/10/32A
[21:05:04] <matto> =]
[21:05:06] <wjp> I have a HP at home, currently
[21:05:13] <matto> I was uploading a CD image to the otherguy
[21:05:16] <matto> it took about 60 minutes
[21:05:18] <wjp> 8/4/32 or something
[21:05:26] <matto> Plext0r ?
[21:05:29] <Kefka> heh
[21:05:32] <matto> hehe
[21:07:07] <matto> wow the exult mailing list is sure active
[21:07:15] <wjp> well....
[21:07:24] <Kefka> actually, i hear pioneer is gonna release a DVD recorder at consumer level pricing that burns DVD-R/CDR/CDRW
[21:07:32] <wjp> *drool*
[21:07:39] <wjp> hmmm
[21:07:43] <Kefka> might wanna wait for that
[21:07:54] <matto> I'd love to burn DVD's!
[21:08:00] <matto> mostly for the storage capacity
[21:08:04] <matto> not for pirating movies
[21:08:11] <Kefka> well, the bad part is that the DVD's cost about $20 for blank media
[21:08:18] <Kefka> US dollars
[21:08:28] <wjp> for the 4.7 Gb version?
[21:09:05] <matto> I've been recording laserdiscs to mpeg2 and burning them to CD... I would prefer DVD because each laserdisc requires 2-3 CD's for storage
[21:09:17] <Kefka> yeah
[21:09:17] <Kefka> maybe in bulk, you could get the price down to $15 if you bought a thousand
[21:09:17] <Kefka> but thats 15000
[21:09:17] <Kefka> so..
[21:09:30] * wjp starts saving ;-)
[21:10:14] <Kefka> well, you might as well just buy the dvd version of the laserdisc
[21:10:19] <Kefka> at the prices they are at now
[21:10:53] <matto> Kefka: there are no DVD versions of these laserdiscs.. they are from arcade games
[21:11:05] * matto is a laserdisc arcade game collector and emulator programmer
[21:11:13] <Kefka> Ah..
[21:11:32] <Kefka> so you are storing data
[21:11:40] <matto> otherwise I agree with you, the DVD is better quality because it is not NTSC encoded (to my knowledge)
[21:11:40] <Kefka> well
[21:12:28] <matto> I am creating mpeg2 files from the laserdiscs and then RAR'ing them across multiple CD's
[21:12:31] <matto> it works ok
[21:12:34] <Kefka> anyone know why europeans refused to adopt ntsc and opted for pal/
[21:12:36] <Kefka> ?
[21:12:39] <matto> but if DVD's were cheap and I had a recorder...
[21:12:48] <matto> Kefka: maybe because NTSC sucks? hehe
[21:13:02] <Kefka> well, pal ain't that great either
[21:13:05] <matto> of course PAL doesn't look muchbetter on paper =]
[21:13:08] <matto> yeah hehe
[21:13:18] <matto> they both are horribly outdated
[21:13:49] <matto> if I remember correctly PAL has a greater resolution at 25 FPS while NTSC is a lower resolution at 30 FPS
[21:13:59] <Kefka> what emulator(s) have you worked on if you don't mind me asking
[21:14:09] <matto> here is my project's homepage: http://daphne.rulecity.com
[21:14:14] <Kefka> ok
[21:14:52] <matto> NTSC is really horrible though, it is really tragic to record mpeg2's off laserdiscs and end up with these horribly interlaced videos when you know the original film was not interlaced
[21:15:38] <matto> of course you can then compact the video to half the resolution and get rid of the interlacing but of course then you lose precision... you can't win
[21:17:55] <wjp> brb
[21:18:27] <Kefka> looks cool
[21:18:54] <Kefka> if you want to draw a lot of attention to your project
[21:19:19] <Kefka> you can send in notice to Zophar's Domain (http://www.zophar.net) and they'll put up a news post about it and link to your site
[21:19:31] <Kefka> unless you've already done that
[21:20:45] <matto> perhaps I will do that when I release a next version
[21:20:46] <wjp> b
[21:21:46] <matto> as it is right now few people can use the emulator
[21:22:00] <matto> once mpeg1/mpeg2 support is added, there will be a lot more interest
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[21:57:56] <wjp> hi
[21:59:07] <Kirben> Hi
[22:08:16] <wjp> I'm going to bed
[22:08:17] <wjp> goodnight all
[22:08:34] <-- wjp has left IRC ([x]chat)
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