#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 6 Feb 2005 (GMT)

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[01:46:28] <servus> It's not a beard! It's an animal I've trained to sit very still.
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[06:33:49] <sbx> :P is the new ;)
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[06:54:58] <sbx> wb darke
[06:55:14] <sbx> Havn't seen you leave the channel in a long time.
[07:00:04] <Darke> Upgraded my nvidia drivers and hadn't restarted X yet, resulting in things (crystalspace in this instance) griping when they compiled against a later version then that was running. I usually disappear only when I absoultely have to. *grin*
[07:07:58] <sbx> do anything with pentagram lately?
[07:11:23] <Darke> Not really. Been a bit distracted using my spare time job hunting for a while, so I haven't been doing much in the way of coding. Integrating the lua language into pentagram for scripting was the last casualty of that.
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[07:14:24] <Darke> (Weird. Mouse pointer stopped reponding to mouse. One restart of X later and it works again. O.o)
[07:21:21] <sbx> My X mouse pointer has been known to misbehave occasionally. Switching to a VT and back fixes it.
[07:21:34] <sbx> My protocol setting may be incorrect.
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[08:14:43] <sbx> hi Colourless & shazza
[08:20:26] <servus> Darke, I've integrated Lua into my engine. You run into any problems?
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[08:21:20] <servus> Why would you want Lua in Pentagram though? It already has a scripting language.
[08:22:24] <sbx> hi Lord_Nightmare
[08:23:30] <sbx> You could add action scripting for extending player abilities, and not editing the game. (I don't remember what it would be used in Pentagram for.)
[08:52:39] <Darke> servus: 1) There isn't a compiler for said language; 2) Writing a compiler for said language is hard, I've tried a number of times; 3) Would you, as a user, want to learn a language that you've never seen before, or would you prefer one that many other games have used before, and you might actually already be familar with? *grin*
[08:53:29] <sbx> How difficult is LUA to learn?
[08:55:20] <Darke> Pretty simple, like almost all dynamicly typed languages. You start with "everything's either a table, a string, or a reference" and progress from there. *grin*
[08:56:21] <Darke> Functions can be stored in variables as references, in fact if you actually define a function, all you're doing is creating a function reference and assigning it into a variable transparently.
[08:57:30] <sbx> Alright thanks for the tip. Do you know of a few things that make use of it?
[08:57:46] <sbx> sounds like games
[08:58:33] <Lord_Nightmare> well, a few lucasarts games used it
[08:58:52] <Lord_Nightmare> and at least one bioware game did too
[08:59:11] <sbx> bioware made NWN?
[08:59:27] <Lord_Nightmare> yes, but NWN they used their own scripting system, not LUA
[08:59:51] <Lord_Nightmare> on BG2 (and BG1?) they used lua iirc
[09:02:24] <sbx> I don't play enough games. The last computer-RPG I've played is Arcanum. Unless you count the MMORPG Neocron.
[09:03:38] <Darke> Painkiller (and it's expansion, both FPS), Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War (neato RTS), and I believe World of Warcraft uses it, at least for it's client UI.
[09:04:04] <Darke> I know of a few more, just can't remember them off the top of my head at the moment.
[09:04:18] <Lord_Nightmare> also warcraft 3 has some sort of scripting system in it, but i don't remember what (if any standard language) its based on
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[09:05:08] <Lord_Nightmare> Crack dot Com's abuse used LISP for scripts.
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[09:17:17] <servus> I find Lua lacking in power.
[09:26:03] <servus> I'm marking Arcanum 2./
[09:26:04] <servus> :-P
[09:26:11] <servus> Which might make it Underworld 4?
[09:26:13] <servus> =-O
[09:28:45] <sbx> making?
[09:35:10] <sbx> can I have it?
[09:35:20] <sbx> although I havn't finished 1 yet
[09:36:40] <servus> Sure. I added scripting in to my NPCs for conversations, and a few other actions such as ActionDeath, etc.
[09:38:10] <servus> I can represent the most complex interactions seen in UW2, such as when you kill Fissif and he talks to you some more and resurrects himself.
[09:38:14] <servus> Then disappaers to another map.
[09:41:22] <sbx> That doesn't sound like Arcanum that sounds like UW2.
[09:58:34] <servus> I said UW2.
[09:58:45] <servus> ... complex interactions seen in UW2 ...
[10:00:37] <sbx> That's why I said it sounds more like UW2. :)
[10:00:52] <sbx> What were you saying about Arcanum?
[10:08:29] <servus> Well they are generally considered very similar games...
[10:12:10] <sbx> Arcanum is 2D
[10:12:19] <sbx> and above ground
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[10:16:18] <servus> Arcanum is not 2D.
[10:16:21] <servus> Oh
[10:16:23] <servus> Sorry
[10:16:26] <servus> I thought you meant Arx Fatalis :-)
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[10:28:54] <servus> I thought you meant Arx Fatalis @ sbx :-)
[10:30:17] <sbx> Havn't played that yet. Any good?
[10:33:39] <servus> Yeah.
[10:33:51] <servus> I like UW2 better, but still very good
[10:35:13] <sbx> Is it made by the same company?
[10:35:20] <sbx> I like Thief: The Dark Project.
[10:36:07] <servus> no
[10:39:29] <sbx> that's ok
[11:40:04] <sbx> In C++ can you use // comment on a line with a concatenated line?
[11:40:39] <sbx> and do you put it before or after the backslash
[11:41:05] <sbx> oh nm I tested it and it compiled fine
[12:00:23] <sbx> Hmm, why wouldn't an inline function declared in a header not find the definition in the cpp file?
[12:00:31] <sbx> that's a double negative
[12:00:57] <sbx> s/not //
[12:01:46] <sbx> warning: inline function `uint32 divide_time(unsigned int,
[12:01:47] <sbx> uint32&, uint32*)' used but never defined
[12:02:32] <sbx> then of course when linking, the file that includes the header can't reference the function
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[12:21:39] * sbx grumbles.
[12:21:44] <sbx> I have other inline functions in there working fine.
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[13:33:07] <sbx> Can an inline function use references and default parameters?
[13:38:15] <wjp> sure
[13:39:29] <sbx> yeah I ruled that out... I have to define inlines in the header file??
[13:39:36] <sbx> thats ugly
[13:40:16] <sbx> but I just read in C++ inlines must be defined in all files identically, which means put the definition in the header
[13:41:06] <sbx> my other inline functions only worked because I don't actually reference them anywhere
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[14:08:55] <wjp> sbx: the compiler must have access to the definition of an inline function when compiling a function that calls that inline function
[14:09:25] <wjp> otherwise it can't inline it
[14:12:11] <sbx> In addition, C++ doesn't allow you to just extern it?
[14:12:34] <sbx> It compiled fine after adding the definition to the header file.
[14:13:47] <sbx> Since they are identical, it should still only make one copy of the code right?
[14:14:49] <sbx> they = the same definition accessed each time another file uses it
[14:16:44] <sbx> eh, it doesn't matter as long as it works
[14:39:56] <Colourless> exult has had some really stupid stuff inline functions
[14:40:02] <Colourless> seen things like this
[14:40:05] <Colourless> in header
[14:40:18] <Colourless> class Foo
[14:40:18] <Colourless> {
[14:40:30] <Colourless> int Bar();
[14:40:32] <Colourless> };
[14:40:36] <Colourless> in source file:
[14:40:46] <Colourless> inline int Foo::Bar()
[14:40:47] <Colourless> {
[14:40:56] <Colourless> }
[14:43:31] <Colourless> should also mention that Foo::Bar() was also called in a different source file
[14:46:32] <sbx> doesn't that work? you just can't access it public
[14:48:32] <sbx> I thought it was just identical to int Bar() { }; in header
[14:49:13] <Colourless> depends on the compiler
[14:51:20] <Colourless> gcc would link that. but MSVC couldn't find the function definition
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[22:36:39] <servus> Bye until I get Internet service.
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