#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 6 Jan 2004 (GMT)

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[09:10:57] <Fl00der> good morning
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[09:55:17] --- wjp has changed the topic to: Exult: an open-source engine for Ultima 7. http://exult.sf.net/
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[11:25:40] <WishStone> gREETINGS /]
[11:25:53] * WishStone slaps her caps lock
[11:26:02] <WishStone> Down! Bad boy!
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[12:00:20] <Colourless> hi
[12:00:25] <WishStone> Huhu :]
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[12:00:38] * WishStone has to reboot due to a broken MP3 file
[12:01:22] <Colourless> Huhu? That's an odd greeting
[12:02:51] <WishStone> Oh, thought you had seen me "die" in here and welcomed me back *sniff* ;]
[12:04:21] <Colourless> [11:50:01] <-- WishStone has left IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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[12:04:26] <Colourless> [12:00:20] <Colourless> hi
[12:04:37] <Colourless> exultbot knows all!
[12:04:45] <WishStone> :P
[12:04:52] <Colourless> :-)
[12:05:03] <Colourless> you see, i entered after you :-)
[12:05:45] <WishStone> Indeed, indeed, didn't see that ;]
[12:06:24] <WishStone> Ah well, just means I didn't annoy people on the boards enough to be known ;]
[12:07:29] <Colourless> :-)
[12:08:54] <wjp> wb WishStone ;-)
[12:08:58] <WishStone> :P
[12:09:15] * WishStone spanks WJP in upcase for that
[12:09:52] * Colourless whacks wjp a good one too for not greeting him
[12:27:06] <wjp> um, oh, yes, hi Ryan :-)
[12:27:39] <Colourless> 'bout time
[12:28:28] <WishStone> *smirks*
[12:28:39] <wjp> hm, only 27 minutes late; I've managed worse than that :-)
[12:29:19] <wjp> I was 43 minutes late for WishStone, so in a way I greeted you earlier :-)
[12:29:41] <Darke> Hi Colourless! *hide!*
[12:30:04] * wjp wonders how long he should wait before greeting Darke to be politically correct
[12:30:05] <Colourless> Drake: I expect no better from you
[12:30:13] <Colourless> a/Drake/Darke/
[12:30:15] <Colourless> :-)
[12:30:22] <Darke> Colourless: Umm... I thought *you* were the drake... oh.
[12:30:31] <WishStone> Oi!!
[12:30:34] <Colourless> oh ha ha
[12:30:39] <Colourless> a simple typo
[12:30:41] * WishStone smacks Darke with her tail
[12:30:52] <WishStone> If anyone, them I'm the drake ;]
[12:30:54] * Darke denies tormenting the dragon, for he is crunchy and tastes good with catchup.
[12:30:56] * wjp wonders if calling a dragon a drake would be an insult
[12:31:06] <WishStone> I guess Colourless is at least several years more Dragon then I ;]
[12:31:07] * Darke yips! Hey!
[12:31:22] <Colourless> WishStone: perhaps perhaps
[12:31:23] * wjp is technically a dragon too
[12:32:06] * WishStone sees no tail
[12:32:37] <Darke> WishStone: He has it stored in that closet over there. *points*
[12:32:55] <WishStone> ....... OWIE!
[12:32:57] <Darke> He's a very modular dragon. *noddle*
[12:33:01] <Colourless> drake doesn't have the same elegance that Dragon does, so I would think that it would be an insult
[12:33:16] <Colourless> same can be said of 'darke' and dragon too :-)
[12:33:17] * Darke disassembles wjp and reassembles him upside down.
[12:33:27] * wjp feels strangely disoriented
[12:33:39] * Darke pokes his tongue at Colourless.
[12:35:44] <Colourless> i think that Arthuris Dragon aka the human Willem Jan Palenstijn doesn't like being a dragon
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[12:37:34] <WishStone> Colourless Dragon : April 10, 1999
[12:37:52] <WishStone> WishStone Dragon : March 27, 2002
[12:37:58] <WishStone> Yepps, several years ;]
[12:38:30] <wjp> hm, I might be older than both of you
[12:40:53] <WishStone> http://www.udic.org/members/php.cgi go have a peek then ;]
[12:41:04] <WishStone> oopsie http://www.udic.org/members/
[12:41:29] <wjp> july 18, 1997
[12:41:38] * wjp was just checking, in fact
[12:41:47] * WishStone wipes some dust off the dull scales of wjp
[12:42:33] * wjp gets some dragon-scale-polish from his dragon-closet
[12:42:45] * wjp takes his tail from it too, while he's at it
[12:43:53] <WishStone> But don't go polishing your tail in public now......
[12:44:01] <Colourless> :-)
[12:45:11] <WishStone> uuuhng... *shoves the Exult boards in hopes the move a bit faster*
[12:45:20] <Fl00der> hello
[12:45:27] <WishStone> Greetings
[12:45:32] <Fl00der> when the final exult is done? :P
[12:45:40] <WishStone> *chuckles*
[12:46:02] <Colourless> once Dr Code can code no more
[12:46:07] <Fl00der> :)
[12:46:27] <Fl00der> has anyone heard some modification called Ultima 7: Blackrock ?
[12:46:53] <Colourless> well, heard yes
[12:47:01] <Colourless> last thing i knew, it no longer existed
[12:47:06] <Fl00der> :/
[12:47:13] * WishStone hmpfs as the Exult board dies on her and goes snoop on some others
[12:47:17] <Fl00der> well gotta eat now -->
[12:48:01] <Colourless> can someone shoot the next person on the Exult forums who asks about exult for ultima 8
[12:50:04] <WishStone> Will do!
[12:50:21] * WishStone never liked U8 and thus anyone speaking about it should be eaten, anyhow
[12:51:09] <Colourless> !!
[12:51:25] <WishStone> With ketsup of course, don't worry
[12:52:28] <Colourless> i guess I should just add you to the ban list for #pentagram then
[12:52:39] <Colourless> wouldn't want anyone accidently being eaten
[12:52:41] * WishStone grins evily
[12:53:01] * Darke pulls out a giant bottle of tomato sauce and sauces Colourless.
[12:53:12] * WishStone smacks lips
[12:54:19] <Colourless> first pink and purple paint, now tomato sauce
[12:54:21] * Darke hopes Colourless is crunchy, else that would be rather defeat the point of the phrase. Either that, or it would just prove that Colourless shouldn't have been eaten anyway...
[12:54:51] <WishStone> As long as he's moist and tender inside, I don't care
[12:55:08] <Colourless> you would eat your own kind?
[12:55:17] <WishStone> If they like U8, yes!
[12:55:44] * wjp slowly backs away from WishStone, carefully avoiding any flying bottles of tomato sauce
[12:56:05] <Colourless> wjp: it
[12:56:11] <Colourless> 's obviously too young
[12:56:31] <WishStone> What? If I want a jump and run game, I play nintendo :P
[12:56:34] <WishStone> Not U8
[12:56:35] * Darke obviously can't win. He gets complains about his lack of variety in greetings, *then* gets complaints about too much variety in his choice of dragon dressings!
[12:57:11] * Darke plays Sonic actually. Plumbers are the spawn of the devil and should be eliminated!
[12:57:38] <WishStone> Ahhhh, Sonic... *remembers her Game Gear*
[12:57:44] <Colourless> plumbers are fat and slow
[12:58:14] --- WishStone is now known as Wishy|afk
[12:58:24] * Wishy|afk shuffles away to get some soup for herself
[12:59:28] * Darke sauces some plumbers and puts a sign above them reading "I like u8!", then leaves them for WishStone to deal with.
[12:59:55] <wjp> grrr... this is quite annoying... someone here needs to link a program against both libpng (and hence libz) and libpari
[13:00:03] <wjp> but both libz and libpari export an 'inflate' symbol
[13:00:13] <Fl00der> urp...back
[13:00:18] <wjp> causing really interesting crashes in libpng
[13:00:32] <Colourless> wjp use a beter operating system :-)
[13:00:49] <Colourless> you know, one which actually has a concept of private symbols
[13:01:01] <Colourless> :-)
[13:01:05] <wjp> well, those symbols need to be exported :-)
[13:01:37] <wjp> messing with the linking order a bit works, though
[13:02:09] <Colourless> a generic 'inflate' symbol is bad design
[13:02:38] * wjp nods
[13:02:41] <wjp> too common a word
[13:03:01] <Colourless> exported apis 'should' always have a prefix
[13:03:07] <wjp> ...which is why _some_ libraries use namespaces or prefixes :-)
[13:03:10] * wjp nods
[13:03:56] <Colourless> linking 2 libraries that both export the same symbol will always be a problem
[13:05:07] <Colourless> why can't you link to a so of libpng?
[13:06:59] <wjp> that's the 'default' way of linking to it
[13:07:09] <wjp> hm, a patch has been submitted to pari for this in 2001
[13:07:35] <Colourless> if it's the default way, then why doesn't it work?
[13:07:50] <wjp> so = shared object
[13:08:04] <Colourless> yes, similar to a dll in windows
[13:08:07] <wjp> maybe you meant the static library (.a) ?
[13:08:37] <wjp> or maybe I don't understand what you're trying to say :-)
[13:09:05] <Colourless> does the libpng.so contain libz compiled into it?
[13:09:40] <wjp> no
[13:09:57] <Colourless> so you have a libz.so too
[13:10:00] <wjp> hm, if I read this post correctly, that patch has actually been accepted
[13:10:00] <wjp> yes
[13:10:14] <wjp> ...but into a 2.2 development branch, while we currently have 2.1.5
[13:10:16] <Colourless> is the linking between libpng.so and libz.so automatic?
[13:10:57] <Colourless> or do you have to link to both when compiling your app?
[13:11:19] <wjp> it's automatic
[13:12:07] <Colourless> then why doesn't it work? On windows it would have. libpng.dll will only grab it's imports from libz.dll
[13:13:25] <wjp> I'm not all that familiar with the internals of dynamic linking
[13:13:55] <wjp> but apparently it doesn't work like that on linux
[13:14:09] <Colourless> i'm guessing it uses a global symbol table
[13:14:14] <Colourless> which is icky
[13:17:10] <wjp> hm, in the development branch op pari the symbol is named polinflate
[13:17:14] <wjp> s/op/of/
[13:19:06] <Colourless> i would guess that the dynamic linking in *nix 'may' have been a bit of a hack of sorts. It seems fairly slimiar to the linking stage of a compiler in the way it actually functions
[13:37:46] <Darke> IIRC, it is quite a hack. It just grabs the first symbol found in the collection of dynamic libraries it 'knows' of. (So you couldn't actually use both 'inflate's.) That's how things like socks wrappers work under linux.
[13:39:52] <Colourless> of course the exe and dll in windows is a hack too. The PE format in someways is a joke. It's an extension on an extension to the dos exe file format
[13:40:46] <Colourless> If i'm not mistaken exe and dll files for non x86 windows platforms (being CE) are probably still going to have a DOS stub on them
[13:41:15] <wjp> "You need Windows to run this." ?
[13:41:20] <Colourless> yes :-)
[13:43:31] <Colourless> yep they do
[13:43:55] <Colourless> i just checked dlls from the WinCE SDK
[13:44:04] <Colourless> and they have dos stubs
[13:50:43] <Darke> That's just... sad. *grin*
[13:52:23] <Colourless> hey, it's going to be with us for 'years'
[13:53:09] <Colourless> when DOS and Win9x is a distant memory in the minds of all but the most hardcore, people will be 'hex reading' the dll and exe files seeing messages 'This program will not run in dos mode' and have no idea why it's there :-)
[13:53:40] <Colourless> of course it is a useful message for people using DOX Box or all the various Dos emulators since it will show then
[13:55:52] <Darke> Heh.
[13:57:01] <Colourless> oh I'm sorry the message is "This program cannot be run in DOS mode."
[14:01:15] <Fl00der> what's going here ?
[14:01:42] <Fl00der> about dos box...can it run programs too ?
[14:01:55] <Fl00der> and what about memory system?
[14:02:08] <Fl00der> some game said "not enough memory", hehe
[14:02:43] <Fl00der> hmm
[14:02:48] <Fl00der> everyone is gone again : /
[14:03:05] <Colourless> DOS Box is an unpredictable beast
[14:03:14] <Colourless> sometimes it will work, other times it wont
[14:03:28] <Fl00der> right...
[14:03:50] <Fl00der> I have played few games with that...
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[15:57:42] <wjp> going home; bbl
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[19:04:08] <wjp> hi
[19:04:09] <Dominus> hey ho
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[19:44:30] <artaxerxes> hi all
[19:44:37] <wjp> hi
[19:44:40] <artaxerxes> 's been a while!
[19:44:41] <Dominus> hi
[19:44:55] <artaxerxes> nice to see (?) all of you again!
[19:46:01] * artaxerxes saw that Dominus' hostname on the forum has changed to .ch
[19:46:39] <Dominus> only for a short while
[19:46:45] <Dominus> back in at
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[19:48:26] <Dominus> hi Fingolfin
[19:48:30] <Fingolfin> hi
[19:48:37] <wjp> hi
[19:49:02] <artaxerxes> hi
[19:50:28] <artaxerxes> btw, I've finally switch my workstation to Linux. Dumped NT and replaced everything to login to the domain
[19:50:57] <artaxerxes> I've always had a coupld linux boxes around but never for my primary workstation. Now it is a thing done.
[19:52:01] <wjp> yay :-)
[19:53:12] <artaxerxes> only one more thing to figure out and I'll be 100% back to my previous productivity! ;-)
[19:53:52] <artaxerxes> I'm trying real hard to get Crystal Report (using Crossover Wine) to use my unixODBC settings but it seems to hang and I can't find help anywhere on the web
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[20:08:29] <artaxerxes> bbl
[20:22:25] <artaxerxes> back
[20:22:32] <Dominus> hi
[20:23:34] * artaxerxes enjoyed DrCode's comment about Exult 1.2
[20:23:36] <Dominus> wb, I mean
[20:23:39] <artaxerxes> thx
[20:25:47] <wjp> hm, I wonder if Jeff's latest post in the 'U7 Ferryman' thread is about Ryan's mail to the ML
[20:25:54] <wjp> if it is, he misinterpreted it
[20:26:43] <wjp> (although it can be interpreted like that, I guess)
[20:26:49] * artaxerxes just saw that oo
[20:26:54] <artaxerxes> s/oo/too
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[22:12:41] <artaxerxes> see ya later
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[22:56:35] <wjp> time to go
[22:56:36] <wjp> 'night
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