#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 6 Mar 2001 (GMT)

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[16:48:35] <wjp> hi
[16:48:43] <Nadir> hi
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[16:54:30] <Nadir> wb
[16:54:35] <wjp> thanks
[16:55:02] <Nadir> I've finally managed to get the BG and SI data files on my new notebook
[16:55:28] <wjp> ah, good
[16:56:12] <Nadir> I also downloaded the 25MB archive of patches for Timidity.
[16:56:20] <wjp> nice :-)
[16:58:55] <Nadir> It sounds great. Especially since I got exult to not squish everything in 8 bit sound.
[16:59:10] <wjp> I wonder what patches I have
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[16:59:56] <wjp> ?
[17:00:10] <wjp> what are you doing? :-)
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[17:15:58] <Fingolfin> hi
[17:16:00] <wjp> hi
[17:16:05] * wjp is in windows
[17:16:13] <wjp> *shudder*
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[17:23:46] <wjp> wb
[17:23:47] <Fingolfin> grrr
[17:23:55] <wjp> everybody keeps disconnecting in here...
[17:23:57] <Fingolfin> I knew I'd crash
[17:23:59] <Fingolfin> thx
[17:24:02] <wjp> first me, then Nadir, then you :-(
[17:25:10] <Fingolfin> hrm
[17:25:20] <wjp> ok, I now have a cygwin shell running here
[17:26:11] <Fingolfin> wow ;)
[17:26:12] <wjp> now I need to figure out how to compile win32 programs :-(
[17:26:18] <Fingolfin> hey, btw, I was in IRC today with OS X ;)
[17:26:21] <Fingolfin> blech
[17:26:35] <Fingolfin> poor lad, you have to debug windows exult? ;) still the sound problem?
[17:26:45] <wjp> the crash-on-exit
[17:27:09] <wjp> nobody seems to be able to use a debugger in win32 :-(
[17:29:17] <Fingolfin> hrm
[17:29:20] <Fingolfin> why?
[17:29:27] <Fingolfin> so complicated?
[17:29:36] <wjp> probably because they don't have any debuggers :-)
[17:29:39] <Fingolfin> hmmmmm
[17:29:41] <Fingolfin> heheh
[17:29:47] <wjp> or aren't programmers...
[17:29:51] <Fingolfin> I have Metrowerks... and I also have the Windows version...
[17:29:58] <Fingolfin> I even have the cross compilers on my mac...
[17:30:03] <Fingolfin> and I have a windows emulator....
[17:30:04] <wjp> there's a metrowerks for win32?
[17:30:14] <Fingolfin> yes
[17:30:23] <Fingolfin> and one for linux, even ;)
[17:30:30] <Fingolfin> and for BeOS, and Palm, and Playstation etc.
[17:30:32] <wjp> wow
[17:30:40] <wjp> which ones do you have?
[17:30:41] <Fingolfin> and for many embeded systems
[17:30:55] <Fingolfin> only mac and windows, they are bundled in the academic version
[17:31:03] <Fingolfin> never used em on windows, though
[17:31:03] <wjp> got a spare windows cd? ;-)
[17:31:27] <wjp> maybe I should try it in Borland C++ Builder
[17:31:37] <wjp> or Borland C++ 5
[17:43:30] * wjp downloads another couple of packages for cygwin
[17:43:40] <wjp> sheesh... I wish this would go faster than 1 kb/s
[17:45:24] <wjp> hmm... it doesn't find windows.h because it's looking in the wrong directory. grrr
[17:47:25] * Fingolfin is back from phone
[17:47:45] <wjp> ARGH... now it uninstalled gcc
[17:47:48] * wjp kicks cygwin
[17:47:59] <Fingolfin> I have a win98SE cd and a win95 cd, and also an PC emultor which includes a special win98 se OEM version with driver to speed up the emulation
[17:48:01] <Fingolfin> eeek
[17:48:05] <Fingolfin> it did *what* ?
[17:48:06] <Fingolfin> hairdy
[17:48:17] <wjp> I have 2.95.2-7, but it keeps wanting to install 2.95.2-6
[17:48:32] <wjp> (which I _don't_ have)
[17:49:18] <wjp> maybe I should just rename the .tar.gz from 2.95.2-7 to 2.95.2-6 :-)
[17:50:00] <Fingolfin> hm
[17:50:05] <Fingolfin> isn't there 2.95.3 already?
[17:50:20] <wjp> dunno
[17:50:24] <wjp> not for cygwin, apparently
[17:51:24] <Fingolfin> ok
[17:51:55] <wjp> 40Kb to go...
[17:52:00] <wjp> 30...
[17:52:03] <wjp> 20...
[17:56:17] <wjp> ok, hacked the install script to recognize 2.95.2-7... now let's see if this works :-)
[17:57:12] <wjp> argh... it removed autoconf too
[17:57:17] * wjp sighs
[18:01:48] <wjp> ok... building SDL...
[18:01:48] <wjp> this should be fun ;-)
[18:08:22] <Fingolfin> hehe
[18:08:28] <Fingolfin> how is everything progressing?
[18:08:50] <wjp> hmm... it seems to be done with SDL
[18:10:48] <wjp> I wonder if configure works for exult
[18:11:35] <Fingolfin> hmm
[18:11:51] <Fingolfin> I wonder how it will work on OS X once I get the dev tools
[18:12:00] <Fingolfin> it is frustrating to have unix without c compiler, really!
[18:12:06] <wjp> :-)
[18:12:28] <wjp> syntax errors in sdl-config?!?
[18:15:34] <wjp> hmmm... looks like something went wrong with generating it
[18:16:52] <Fingolfin> hrm, bad
[18:16:57] <Fingolfin> I am on my way out now
[18:17:07] <Fingolfin> going to cinema, to relax a bit with friends ;)
[18:17:08] <wjp> ok, see you later
[18:17:13] <wjp> have fun :-)
[18:17:20] <Fingolfin> cya
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[21:08:04] <chimera|work> hi!
[21:09:52] <wjp> hi
[21:10:08] * wjp is trying to build exult in cygwin
[21:10:16] <chimera|work> yeah
[21:10:21] <chimera|work> I was reading the mailing list
[21:10:23] <wjp> not going that great :-(
[21:10:45] <chimera|work> VC++ has an awesome debugger =]
[21:11:04] <wjp> getting Exult to run in VC++ is kind of a problem
[21:11:09] <chimera|work> I figured
[21:11:14] <wjp> Borland C++ would be easier I think
[21:11:27] <chimera|work> probably because exult currently relies on a bunch of unix only header files?
[21:11:43] <wjp> no, VC++ doesn't support C++, basically
[21:11:47] <chimera|work> ?
[21:11:55] <chimera|work> I guess it's been fooling me all this time!
[21:11:57] * chimera|work slaps forehead
[21:11:58] <wjp> :-)
[21:12:06] <wjp> well, it does, but not really :-)
[21:12:15] <chimera|work> what are the issues?
[21:12:33] <wjp> lots of thing. I don't know the specifics, though
[21:12:39] <wjp> s/thing/things/
[21:13:13] <chimera|work> are you saying that you haven't actually had any problems with VC++ yourself, and you are just repeating what someone else has told you? hehe
[21:13:22] <wjp> no, I had tons of problem with it :-)
[21:13:29] <wjp> s/problem/problems/
[21:13:34] <chimera|work> but you said you didn't know the specifics
[21:13:56] <wjp> I tried about half a year ago, but there were too many errors to remember any
[21:14:19] <chimera|work> hrmmm...
[21:14:23] <wjp> I think Ryan is occasionally trying to get it work
[21:14:41] <chimera|work> I could probably get it to work but it might require removing some unix'ish dependancies
[21:14:58] <chimera|work> my project currently compiles in VC++ in windows and g++ in linux
[21:15:10] <chimera|work> so where it's concerned, VC++ works just fine
[21:15:17] <wjp> IIRC, most of the problems are from the STL
[21:15:19] <chimera|work> Now I should mention, that I hate Microsoft hehe
[21:15:24] <chimera|work> they are Bad
[21:15:36] <chimera|work> I don't like any of their software either-----except VC++
[21:15:40] <chimera|work> VC++ is nice hehe
[21:15:53] <chimera|work> they must've hired an external group to make it for them =]
[21:15:53] <wjp> no it isn't :-)
[21:16:02] <wjp> heh :-)
[21:16:24] <chimera|work> I find this a bit hard to believe
[21:17:22] <wjp> ok, that was the files subdir...
[21:17:25] <wjp> next :-)
[21:17:53] <wjp> this is really slow... cygwin isn't really fast at forking other processes it seems
[21:18:01] <chimera|work> you use fork?
[21:18:06] <chimera|work> in exult?
[21:18:10] <wjp> shell scripts use a lot them
[21:18:17] <wjp> s/them/of them/
[21:18:26] <wjp> configure takes ages
[21:18:35] <wjp> libtool too
[21:18:50] <wjp> unfortunately libtool is called for _every single_ compile :-(
[21:20:42] <chimera|work> you won't get any sympathy from me
[21:20:47] <wjp> :-)
[21:22:37] <chimera|work> I am not too impressed with cygwin
[21:22:48] <wjp> me neither
[21:23:10] <chimera|work> it looks like a handy tool if you need a quick compile of a unix program
[21:23:15] <chimera|work> but not an ideal solution
[21:23:36] <wjp> no
[21:23:57] <wjp> (gumps subdir done)
[21:25:19] * wjp sighs
[21:25:38] <wjp> can't link 'confregress'
[21:26:27] * wjp removes that from the makefile
[21:33:37] <chimera|work> I've been trying to write an mpeg parser
[21:34:14] <wjp> how's it going?
[21:34:28] <chimera|work> pretty good.. it works on small files perfectly
[21:34:40] <chimera|work> on large files it seems to have problems
[21:34:49] <wjp> hmm... weird
[21:35:03] <chimera|work> its purpose is to record the byte position that each frame begins at
[21:35:31] <chimera|work> on a 40516 frame file it detected 40470 frames
[21:35:35] <chimera|work> or something like that
[21:35:43] <wjp> hmm
[21:39:56] <wjp> hey, it finished compiling!
[21:40:11] <wjp> lots of link errors, though
[21:45:38] <chimera|work> it took that long to compile?
[21:45:41] * chimera|work raises eyebrow
[21:45:49] <wjp> yup :-(
[21:45:52] <chimera|work> hehehe
[21:45:57] <wjp> libtool overhead :-(
[21:46:06] * wjp kicks cygwin :-)
[21:46:07] <chimera|work> mirc!
[21:46:16] <wjp> yeah
[21:46:19] <chimera|work> VC++ is your answer!
[21:46:21] <chimera|work> hehe
[21:46:31] <wjp> :-)
[21:46:34] <chimera|work> I am about ready to try compiling it in VC++ myself
[21:46:55] <wjp> hmm... I get tons of undefined references to SDL_somethingorother
[21:47:00] <chimera|work> but I am not sure being able to say "I told you so" would be worth the effort
[21:47:12] <wjp> hehe :-)
[21:47:31] <wjp> how much further do I have to push you to get you to do it? ;-)
[21:47:38] <chimera|work> lol!!!
[21:47:53] <wjp> "I bet VC++ couldn't even compile Hello World!"
[21:48:05] <chimera|work> hehe
[21:48:09] <chimera|work> it can compile daphne, dangit!
[21:48:24] <chimera|work> and I wisely don't use any STL =]
[21:48:29] <chimera|work> BTW, why _are_ you guys using STL? hehehe
[21:48:38] <chimera|work> doesn't that just introduce extra overhead? hehe
[21:49:05] <chimera|work> well let me correct myself
[21:49:05] <wjp> :-)
[21:49:25] <chimera|work> since exult probably runs way too fast on most systems, and since you are probably sleeping a lot of the time, extra overhead won't matter
[21:49:26] <chimera|work> hehe
[21:49:32] <chimera|work> so.. forget I said anything about that hehe
[21:49:35] <wjp> lol
[21:50:13] <wjp> this is weird... it acts as if it can't find SDL
[21:50:25] <chimera|work> ok dangit, I am going to reboot to windows hehe
[21:50:34] <chimera|work> you've pushed me too far!
[21:50:37] <chimera|work> and besides, work is boring today
[21:51:02] <chimera|work> I'll hopefully be back if mirc cooperates =]
[21:51:04] <-- chimera|work has left IRC (Arcade laserdisc emulation project. get your CVS account today! http://daphne.rulecity.com)
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[21:54:22] <matto> is this thing on?
[21:54:24] * matto taps microphone
[21:54:57] <matto> now to get wincvs working on this piece of trash
[21:56:06] <matto> dang nickserv!
[21:56:19] <matto> it says this name is registered and yet it won't acknowledge my awesome password
[21:56:37] <matto> it won't acknowledge my authority. It won't have me as a companion.. a provider.. or a master! Buwahahahahaha!!!
[21:57:12] <wjp> lol
[21:58:24] <matto> wjp! you think you have WON?? Think again!
[21:58:36] <wjp> hehe :-)
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[22:02:09] <matto> freedman!!
[22:02:09] <wjp> hi Jeff!
[22:02:25] <freedman> Hi! You guys are up kind of late!
[22:02:33] <matto> 3:02 PM? not really
[22:02:36] <wjp> only 11pm here
[22:02:44] <matto> what do you think this is, Europe?
[22:02:52] <matto> hehe
[22:02:56] <freedman> :-)
[22:03:00] * wjp hereby declares #exult as a part of Europe!
[22:03:14] <matto> Deborah Freedman, eh?
[22:03:21] <matto> well this is indeed an unexpected pleasure
[22:03:24] <freedman> 3pm? Colorado?
[22:03:35] <matto> not Colorado.. close though
[22:03:37] <freedman> No, it's me, Jeff. My wife set up this account.
[22:03:56] <freedman> New Mexico?
[22:04:20] <matto> that's another good guess, but still wrong
[22:04:46] <freedman> What else is there?
[22:05:01] <matto> you think there are only 2 states in the mountain time zone?
[22:05:04] <wjp> Nevada? (/me is clueless)
[22:05:13] <matto> no Nevada is too far west
[22:05:21] <freedman> Utah?
[22:05:24] <matto> yes!!!
[22:05:25] <matto> hehe
[22:05:28] <matto> you win!!!
[22:06:02] <freedman> I never did very well in geography.
[22:06:15] * wjp is trying to compile exult in cygwin... and failing
[22:06:36] <freedman> Isn't cygwin like mingw32?
[22:07:10] <wjp> it's a full unix environment. (including bash, autoconf, automake, gcc, etc...)
[22:07:21] <wjp> so I can even use configure
[22:07:32] <freedman> Yea, I've played with it. Still not as good as Unix, though.
[22:07:36] <matto> I'm about to attempt exult in VC++ because wjp tells me I can't succeed
[22:07:44] <wjp> ;-)
[22:08:06] <freedman> VC++? Blech...
[22:08:34] <matto> IMO, VC++ is the compiler of choice for Win32 programming
[22:08:44] <freedman> Hey, I wonder if Exult/win32 runs under WINE? Never tried that.
[22:08:46] <wjp> yes, but whose choice? :-)
[22:08:48] <matto> well... my compiler of choice.. hehe
[22:09:01] <matto> hey there's also LCC hehe
[22:09:15] <freedman> Well, some of the people here at work like it; so I'm stuck using it at times.
[22:09:44] <freedman> It has some good points, but doesn't seem to do STL very well.
[22:09:49] <matto> !
[22:09:52] <matto> that's what wjp claimed
[22:10:01] <wjp> maybe it's true ;-)
[22:10:15] <matto> I really can't say
[22:10:18] <matto> I never use STL
[22:10:26] <matto> but I did use it at school recently for a C++ project
[22:10:31] <matto> of course that was on Solaris...
[22:10:40] <matto> well dangit I _have_ used STL with VC++ before hehe
[22:11:12] <freedman> I've only started using it since Dancer added it to Exult.
[22:11:40] <matto> these crazy MPEG people want 188 CHF's for their mpeg video specification document
[22:11:52] <matto> I think that means swiss francs but I'm not sure hehe
[22:12:01] <wjp> yeah, swiss francs
[22:12:11] <matto> they must think I am insane if I am going to shell out that kind of jack!
[22:12:24] <wjp> how much is a CHF, anyway?
[22:12:36] <matto> what is that in dollars? must be between $100-$150
[22:12:36] <matto> I visited Switzerland 9 years ago hehe
[22:12:47] <freedman> Isn't there a public spec on the net somewhere?
[22:12:53] <matto> so I did at one time have a sense of dollars->swiss francs conversion
[22:12:56] <matto> probably
[22:13:02] <matto> but things could've easily changed in 9 years
[22:13:37] <freedman> There are some open-source players... would those help?
[22:13:37] <matto> I have searched for mpeg specs but I really can't find anything
[22:13:50] <matto> I've been looking at them
[22:13:55] <matto> they're ok but still it is slow going
[22:14:01] <matto> it's like reverse engineering
[22:14:08] <matto> if I had a document... that would be faster
[22:14:13] <wjp> I don't get this... SDL seems to build fine, but test programs just can't seem to find it
[22:14:27] <matto> wjp, ok I am getting back on task.. hehe
[22:14:47] <wjp> hmm... swiss francs are expensive
[22:15:14] <wjp> 5 CHF is roughly 3 USD
[22:15:31] <matto> hmm
[22:15:47] <freedman> Get your employer to pay for it:-)
[22:16:36] <matto> when I was there, CD's cost around 32 CHF ... and in the US they were $16 for the same thing... so I got the feel that in reality, $0.50 == 1 CHF but in practice, the change rate was more like $0.73 == 1 CHF so the swiss franc was worth more than the dollar
[22:16:42] <matto> at least, that's how I viewed it
[22:16:58] <matto> in other words, if you worked in CH and you traveled to the USA you could get stuff for cheap hehe
[22:17:22] <matto> the other alternative could be that everything was too expensive in CH haha
[22:19:09] <wjp> ok, I give up on cygwin
[22:20:39] <wjp> I'm going to bed
[22:20:41] <wjp> see you later
[22:20:44] <matto> dang
[22:20:46] <-- wjp has left IRC (Leaving)
[22:20:46] <freedman> Good night.
[22:20:47] <matto> ok bye
[22:21:02] <matto> I haven't even checked out the CVS in win yet hehe
[22:21:39] <freedman> Going to try with VC++? It's probably possible. You might check the SDL mailing list archives.
[22:23:02] <matto> why would I check the SDL mailing list archives? *confused look*
[22:23:19] <freedman> To see if others have tried using it with VC++...
[22:23:25] <matto> haha
[22:23:35] <matto> I have been using SDL and VC++ for probably the past year
[22:23:43] <freedman> Oh:-) Guess it works.
[22:23:44] <matto> unless you are talkking about an exult specific SDL archive
[22:23:47] <matto> that I don't know about
[22:23:54] <freedman> Nope.
[22:24:18] <matto> of course it works
[22:24:35] <freedman> If you can get it compiled, debugging should be nice. It is one thing I like about VC++
[22:24:37] <matto> Sam Latinga includes a file called VisualC.zip inside the SDL source code which has workspaces and projects
[22:24:53] <matto> well I read the mailing list today and everyone was asking how to get gdb working in win32
[22:25:03] <matto> and I was like "wtf? Isn't anyone using VC++ ?" because yeah it's debugger is great
[22:25:04] <freedman> Any answers?
[22:25:16] <matto> well my answer is VC++ hahaha
[22:25:21] <matto> I didn't reply to the mailing list though
[22:25:34] <matto> because obviously I will need to get it compiled in VC++ first
[22:25:37] <freedman> But gdb is cheaper.
[22:25:49] <matto> I totally agree
[22:25:55] <matto> but that's why I use linux
[22:25:57] <freedman> I suppose I could 'borrow' a copy from work...
[22:26:08] <matto> I am a huge linux fan
[22:26:18] <matto> but as long as I am porting to win32, I might as well use VC++ .. that's how I look at it
[22:26:47] <freedman> If you succeed, it'd be nice to get the changes into the CVS.
[22:27:09] <matto> I am pretty experienced using SDL and VC++ so I think I have a good chance
[22:27:29] <matto> but if VC++'s STL is really messed up as you say it is... I might be in trouble
[22:27:31] <matto> I never use STL
[22:28:05] <freedman> I'm not sure that it doesn't work; it's only rumor. I hope it does, since I'm trying to use it at work, and need it to compile in VC++.
[22:28:46] <matto> I could use some help figuring out which files are supposed to be compiled together
[22:28:52] <matto> (ie, building the project)
[22:29:24] <matto> I am under the impression that there are several modules here.. hehe
[22:29:30] <freedman> Take a look at Makefile.win32.
[22:30:01] <matto> ok
[22:33:17] <matto> so it looks like if you just run "make" it will build exult.exe
[22:33:26] <matto> by compiling MAIN_OBJS, PATH_OBJS, etc.
[22:34:04] <freedman> That's the theory.
[22:34:43] <matto> well I'll give it a shot
[22:34:45] <matto> here goes!
[22:39:11] <freedman> I don't hear any screams yet...
[22:43:06] <matto> I haven't tried compilign yet =]
[22:43:12] <matto> I am still building the project
[22:44:26] <matto> I hope I can get it to compile .cc extensions, I dont' think I've ever tried that before in VC++
[22:47:03] <freedman> Can't imagine that it would be impossible.
[22:50:40] <matto> ok project ready...
[22:50:44] <matto> here goes... *winces*
[22:50:51] <matto> I will probably get 1000 errors at first hehe
[22:51:03] <matto> in fact, maybe I'd better get the SDL sdk first haha.. that might be a good idea
[22:51:28] <freedman> There is a LOT of code in Exult - > 50K lines, I think.
[22:56:31] <matto> drat
[22:56:36] <matto> it isn't recognizing .CC extensions
[22:57:01] <freedman> Isn't there an option somewhere? I assume you're in Visual Studio.
[22:58:02] <matto> yea
[22:58:14] <matto> I've looked
[22:58:14] <matto> it's looking grim ..
[22:58:20] <matto> here's some stuff I've found on the net: http://lists.sourceforge.net/archives//aime-devel/2000-August/000095.html
[22:58:48] <freedman> Well, I'm out for a walk. Will be back in 10-20 minutes. Good luck!
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[23:22:07] <matto> freedman!!
[23:22:28] <freedman> All done:-)?
[23:23:40] <matto> no
[23:23:51] <matto> I wrote a batch file to rename all .cc files to .cpp hehe
[23:24:14] <matto> so now I am building the project again
[23:24:18] <matto> Microsoft sucks
[23:24:20] <matto> I hate them
[23:24:23] <freedman> What a pain. There should be an easier way. I know that BorlandC++ had a setting for this.
[23:24:56] <matto> I kept searching on the net and most places I found agreed that MSVC++'s IDE only recognizes .CPP or .CXX extensions but that you could use their command line compiler with anything
[23:25:32] <matto> since I am not familiar w/ compiling from the command line, I decided to try my luck with renaming the .CC files
[23:25:32] <freedman> Hmm. MS never ceases to amaze me.
[23:25:47] <matto> yes, they deliberately make their stuff incompatible with everything else
[23:26:43] <matto> fortunately you can do "ren *.cc *.cpp" and it works
[23:26:55] <matto> but I did have to enter the directories in manually because I couldn't find any recursive way to do it
[23:27:17] <freedman> Maybe later, you can have the IDE write out a Makefile and then automate the whole thing.
[23:27:58] <matto> perhaps =]
[23:28:13] <matto> we'll see how far I get trying to compile
[23:28:40] <freedman> You probably don't want to spend too much time on this.
[23:31:27] <matto> lol
[23:31:50] <matto> yeah..
[23:32:12] <freedman> For me, porting to Windows is something to get paid for. Working for free has to be fun.
[23:32:43] <freedman> We need to find someone who likes developing on Windows. Might be tought, though.
[23:36:44] <freedman> Well, I better be going. Got a PC to put back together.
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