#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 6 Sep 2001 (GMT)

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[02:19:21] <EazyCheez> :( my bug was closed but it wasn't fixed... even if it did work for the guy who closed it. He said I should try it. Well, I did... and the game crashed when I tried to save next. Also, after I killed Rotoluncia, Filbercio was following me around initiating conversation.
[02:19:46] <EazyCheez> and now, when I try to Journey onward, Exult hangs
[02:19:53] <EazyCheez> on the swirly blue screen
[02:20:23] <EazyCheez> I can always create a new game and restore, but I'd rather not until this bug is fixed
[02:20:34] <EazyCheez> (this is all for the record btw --)
[02:20:39] * EazyCheez points to exultbot
[02:21:15] <EazyCheez> Jeff Freedman closed it :(
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[02:46:51] <Waz> elo
[02:49:40] <matto> waz up
[02:50:14] <Waz> nothing... gona get nekid and bath in a water fall
[02:50:21] <Waz> err bathe
[02:50:29] <Waz> or.. got atake a shower..
[02:51:02] <Waz> in other news.. i'm mushing my brain with playing catchup with exult code...
[02:51:24] <Waz> and also i'm watching all the stargate=sg1 season 1 episodes..
[02:51:42] <matto> cool
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[04:03:04] <Waz> I hope he doesn't poision himself...
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[12:09:18] <Colourless> hi
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[12:11:00] <Fingolfin> hi
[12:11:04] <EazyCheez> hello
[12:11:11] <Colourless> hi
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[12:46:47] <EazyCheez> sigh... I tried using a different method of getting the scroll, the way Jeff told me, but it still didn't work
[12:47:26] <EazyCheez> I actually had to go to Rotoluncia's house to get the scroll, though, because the automaton wasn't coming to the bar
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[13:51:30] <wjp> hi
[13:51:58] <Colourless> hi
[14:20:37] <Colourless> *sigh* I have a feeling tThe animation syncronization code is going to get a tad messy
[14:21:05] <Colourless> i'm going to completely rethink the problem
[14:21:31] <Colourless> and likely get rid of much of the code that's been written. IMO, it is being done the 'wrong' way
[14:21:46] * wjp nods
[14:22:24] <Colourless> i'm going to move the big switch into the constructor
[14:22:52] <wjp> what big switch?
[14:23:06] <Colourless> well, it's not that big
[14:23:15] <Colourless> the one in "Frame_animator::handle_event"
[14:23:16] <wjp> Frame_animator::handle_event() ?
[14:23:18] <wjp> k :-)
[14:23:47] <EazyCheez> colourless: my bug is causing me problems again :( I tried a different method of getting the scroll but it still teleported me... I guess my save game just before the lighthouse was corrupted too! (I call the mint the lighthouse for no good reason :) )
[14:24:18] * wjp is trying to figure out the remove_party_items intrinsic in SI, in the meantime
[14:24:30] <wjp> it's quite a bit different than the BG one, it seems
[14:24:32] <Colourless> I don't know anything about that bug
[14:24:58] <EazyCheez> it was until recently up on the bug tracker... Jeff closed it though
[14:25:01] <Colourless> wjp: so I've been seeing from thet emails
[14:25:13] <wjp> huh? I just started :-)
[14:25:40] <EazyCheez> wjp: what are we talking about, my bug or yours? :)
[14:25:45] <Colourless> :-)
[14:25:59] <wjp> oh, I see... Jeff mailed something about add_party_items
[14:26:22] <Colourless> yes he did :)
[14:26:55] <EazyCheez> did you see my mails to the list? I guess even though I'm still having problems I should shut up about it :(
[14:27:44] <Colourless> those sorts of things are real pains in the ass because they are really hard to track unless it happens to one of us while we are debugging
[14:29:48] <wjp> hmm... didn't the guards take all your gold bars when you free Hawk?
[14:30:36] <wjp> oh wait... I missed a loop... they're removed one by one
[14:37:18] <EazyCheez> I only took one gold bar
[14:37:23] <EazyCheez> from the mint
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[16:22:56] <Kefka> question: what is the way to set a 'flag'? by using a true/false (1/0) type set up ?
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[16:25:42] <Colourless> ???
[16:25:42] <Colourless> hi
[16:25:57] <fingolfin> hi
[16:26:14] <Kefka> hi
[16:26:22] <Kefka> like say when i enter a location
[16:26:30] <Kefka> call it location x
[16:26:45] <Kefka> the first time i enter location x, the screen should display y message
[16:27:02] <Kefka> however, if i re enter that room later, the screen should display z message
[16:27:08] <fingolfin> hm... was exultbot offline for the last two hours or so? ;)
[16:27:16] <fingolfin> cause there is a gap in the log...
[16:27:32] * fingolfin stills try to figure out what ryan wanted to tell with the "???" ;()
[16:27:34] <Kefka> so the way to do that would be to set up a flag like a haveenteredbefore flag
[16:27:36] <Colourless> there's just been nothing said
[16:28:03] <Kefka> and if haveEnteredFlag is 1, then display z, if 0 then display y right?
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[16:28:23] <Colourless> what's the problem?
[16:28:33] <Kefka> ok..
[16:28:44] <Kefka> in my game, there are 43 locations
[16:29:03] <Kefka> when you enter one of those 43 for the first time, you get a message
[16:29:20] <Kefka> however, if you go to another location, and then backtrack, you get a different message
[16:29:28] <Colourless> yeah...
[16:29:52] <Kefka> so the way to do this (programming wise) is when you enter a location, have it set a hasEntered flag
[16:29:55] <Kefka> to 1
[16:30:10] <Colourless> yeah...
[16:30:13] <Kefka> then on reentry, have it check if hasEntered=true
[16:30:21] <Kefka> if so, then display the other message
[16:30:30] <Kefka> is that right?
[16:30:33] <Colourless> yeah
[16:30:35] <Kefka> ok
[16:30:39] <Kefka> thats what i wanted to know
[16:30:42] <Colourless> that's what you'd do
[16:31:31] <Kefka> where are flags generally stored?
[16:31:55] <Kefka> like in the .cpp file or an .h file?
[16:32:34] <Colourless> all that really depends on your project
[16:33:08] <Kefka> ok
[16:35:43] <Colourless> all I can say is, do what you think is best
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[17:04:06] <Kefka> ugh.. this is very complicated..
[17:05:01] <Kefka> need food before i start messing with this
[17:05:43] <Colourless> :)
[18:15:04] <Kefka> If there are about 100 items in the game, and when using the Look command, the screen should output the description of that item (a string of characters), how and where should i place the strings in my program
[18:15:24] <Kefka> ie. the descriptions
[18:15:35] <wjp> I'd put them in a data file
[18:15:50] <wjp> where you'd store the strings when you read them depends on the architecture of your program
[18:16:15] <Kefka> so "It's a small black iron key." would go in a data file?
[18:16:54] <wjp> that's what I'd do, yes
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[18:40:04] <Kefka> ah.. so basically, enum allows you to create your own data types like int and float
[18:40:19] <Colourless> no :)
[18:40:23] <Kefka> no?
[18:40:26] <Colourless> enums are enumerations
[18:40:49] <Colourless> it's an int type that can only take certain values (the ones you specify)
[18:41:01] <wjp> and you can name those values
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[18:41:27] <Kefka> oh, so enum is an int
[18:41:37] <Kefka> but an int that can be named anything i want
[18:41:45] <Colourless> basically yeah
[18:42:03] <Colourless> it's a bit more complex than that
[18:42:13] <Colourless> to create new types you can use typedef
[18:42:23] <Kefka> ok
[18:42:24] <Colourless> for instances:
[18:42:31] <Colourless> typedef float THIS_IS_MY_FLOAT;
[18:44:16] <Colourless> typedef is probably more useful for C developers more than C++ developers
[18:44:23] <Kefka> gah.. i don't know if i should have tried to start off writing this game.. its a graphical zork, but much more complex..
[18:44:33] <Kefka> ok, i am using c++
[18:45:04] <Kefka> and i haven't even begun to think about the graphics portion..
[18:45:41] <Colourless> perhaps you should learn the language a little better first
[18:46:11] <Kefka> i tried reading books and actually have.. its just that i learn best by example.. as in real world examples..
[18:46:11] <Colourless> and write small programs to test out the features of the language
[18:46:27] <Kefka> the examples that people give on pointers in text books are useless
[18:46:39] <Kefka> i want to know how i use pointers to write Exult
[18:46:51] <Kefka> or how i use pointers to write Quake
[18:46:59] <Colourless> pointers are used pretty much everwhere in exult
[18:47:09] <Colourless> they would be used pretty much everywhere in quake too :)
[18:47:28] <Kefka> well, that exactly it, if someone explained to me the reason they are used and what they do
[18:47:37] <Kefka> in that context
[18:47:55] <Kefka> then i could understand it, but just saying a pointer does this, and this.. and is written like this
[18:48:12] <Kefka> means nothing.. i need to learn practical implementations of things..
[18:49:43] <Kefka> oh well.. back to thinking..
[18:49:54] <wjp> with programming it generally helps to do a little bit of both theory and practice at the same time
[18:50:48] <wjp> just practical examples tend to give a wrong view of things
[18:55:43] <Colourless> Kefka, as said previously pointers are used to indirectly access data. You are wanting to know how this applies to a game such as Exult or Quake.
[18:55:55] <Colourless> Well we have an npc
[18:56:34] <Colourless> that NPC (NPC1) just got attacked by another NPC (NPC2)
[18:56:46] <Colourless> NPC1 decides that it wasn't to then attack NPC2.
[18:57:02] <Colourless> A pointer is used for NPC1 to indicate it's target is NPC2
[18:57:43] <Colourless> that is the 'target' field of NPC1 is set to a pointer to NPC2
[18:58:09] <wjp> NPC1.target = &NPC2;
[19:00:28] <Colourless> the reason things are done like that is, if NPC2 changes for what ever reason, NPC1 needs to know about these changes and if pointers weren't used it becomes very hard.
[19:01:15] <Colourless> Also, using pointers saves LOTS or memory (usually, this depends on program design really)
[19:02:53] <Colourless> i must say though, without understanding the theory behind pointers, it can be hard to see why and how they are properly used
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[19:23:06] <wjp> hi
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[20:51:10] <chimera|wookin> hehe
[20:51:53] <Fingolfin> chimera|wookin: I overreacted a bit, OK, but I was pissed of by his lack of netiquette
[20:52:19] <wjp> #sdl?
[20:52:24] <chimera|wookin> Fingolfin: don't worry, I always overreact to people who expect me to provide them free tech support
[20:52:33] <Fingolfin> =)
[20:52:36] <Fingolfin> wjp: yeah
[20:52:55] <wjp> wow... almost 50 people in there
[20:52:56] <Fingolfin> chimera|wookin: I have no problem providing support;
[20:53:05] <Fingolfin> I have problems with people who *demand* to be helped
[20:53:12] <chimera|wookin> nor do I, unless the person _expects_ it
[20:53:21] <chimera|wookin> and get mad if I don't help them
[20:53:23] <Fingolfin> and who ask every 5 secs "hey, hello, answer my question!"
[20:53:30] <Fingolfin> yeah
[20:53:32] <chimera|wookin> yes, exactly
[20:53:52] <Fingolfin> maybe nobody knows, or everybody is gone, or has no time... but he is the center of the universe,, sigh
[20:54:04] <chimera|wookin> "Hello? ARe you guys listening to me?"
[20:54:09] <chimera|wookin> typical newbie attitude.. hehe
[20:56:36] <Fingolfin> yeah
[21:00:27] <Fingolfin> wjp: btw, it was "m6s" we were talking about =)
[21:00:40] <wjp> somehow I had a feeling it was him
[21:02:43] <Fingolfin> he ;) well, he has not yet answered my question what his problem is :)
[21:05:11] * wjp doesn't even understand the problem he's having
[21:07:08] <Fingolfin> I am not sure I understand it either =) but I try
[21:09:12] <wjp> he doesn't seem to get fading in will do anything?
[21:10:31] <Fingolfin> <sigh>
[21:11:16] <Fingolfin> the sing is, the fading may not be the problem, I myseld didnīt use SDL_mixer for real, but I have the feeling I know more by only looking at the headers than he by aactually using it
[21:11:23] <Fingolfin> and then there is the full, clean source of SDL_mixer
[21:13:20] <Fingolfin> all crazy today
[21:15:33] <Colourless> got to go, cya
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[21:16:35] <wjp> DUDE! ;-)
[21:18:23] <Fingolfin> he =)
[21:18:30] <Fingolfin> I could have said "bloke", too
[21:18:51] <Fingolfin> gosh, and now I am getting emails from that german OS X user ML where I am on to help people sometimes...
[21:19:33] <Fingolfin> this guy writes (slighlty distortions caused by me exagerating =): "oh folks, you are all so evil, you can get legal copies of OS X 10.1 beta if you join the Apple membership"
[21:19:58] <Fingolfin> he doesnīt mention that only Premier Developers get the betas, and those pay $3500/year. and only some chose of those got the betas, too
[21:20:09] <Fingolfin> grrr.... I hate it when peopl blast of like that w/o having a clue
[21:20:21] <wjp> how about some D2 to relief the stress? ;-)
[21:24:46] <Fingolfin> woa he manage to get it done
[21:24:53] <wjp> amazing!
[21:25:00] <Fingolfin> yeah, some d2 sounds good! but do you still have a "low level" char?
[21:25:10] <wjp> sorc is 56, I think
[21:25:16] <Fingolfin> hey my guess at SDL_mixer was right, and this by only looking at the header files! i must be good =)
[21:25:20] <Fingolfin> or he is brain dead
[21:25:23] <Fingolfin> wjp: ...
[21:25:29] <wjp> ;-)
[21:25:36] <wjp> I'd vote for the latter
[21:25:38] <Fingolfin> wjp: ok, give me 15 minutes to finish some stuff here and reboot and find my CD ;)
[21:25:55] <Fingolfin> wjp: while Iīd prefer to be a genious, I think you are right =)
[21:25:56] * wjp is checking out those C wrappers in the meantime
[21:32:25] <wjp> are you sure about that last statement in #sdl? ;-)
[21:33:20] <Fingolfin> erhm =)
[21:35:01] <wjp> as long as I'm in a 'extern "C" {', I can just use C++ stuff and it will 'just work' (TM) ?
[21:37:57] <Fingolfin> well...
[21:38:10] <Fingolfin> you put that into your header file, and in your C file, yeah, you can do waht you want
[21:38:12] <Fingolfin> I think
[21:38:20] <wjp> never did any mixing of C and C++ before...
[21:39:15] <Fingolfin> well, the extern "C" simply turns of the name mmangilin
[21:39:20] <Fingolfin> mangling even
[21:39:21] <Fingolfin> ;)
[21:39:29] <Fingolfin> you put it around the prototype only IIRC
[21:39:48] <Fingolfin> and you should in turn protect them by #ifdefs
[21:39:53] <wjp> the entire bwindow/SDL_sysvideo.cc is in an extern "C"
[21:39:54] <Fingolfin> so ANSI C compilers donīt choke ;)
[21:39:58] <Fingolfin> ah ok
[21:40:05] <wjp> #ifdef __cplusplus, probably?
[21:40:06] <Fingolfin> then it is ok, I was not sure if that was allowed
[21:40:20] <Fingolfin> well inside the .cc file it is not needed
[21:40:29] <wjp> obviously :-)
[21:40:36] <Fingolfin> <g>
[21:41:45] <wjp> we're quite mean to him... "we found the solution to all your problems, but we're not telling" ;-)
[21:42:19] <Fingolfin> but you told you
[21:42:31] <Fingolfin> err him ;) the solution is called SDL_mixer.h
[21:42:33] <Fingolfin> ;)
[21:43:04] <Fingolfin> stacked == stoned?? ;)
[21:43:14] <wjp> not a clue
[21:44:14] <wjp> maybe he means getting/being stuck?
[21:45:40] <Fingolfin> maybe
[21:45:47] <Fingolfin> he is not a native speaker, so much for sure =)
[21:46:39] <wjp> he's greek
[21:49:47] <Kefka> he's invaded #kde!!!
[21:50:27] <Fingolfin> and #sourceforge
[21:50:33] <Fingolfin> he has been talking with moorman ;)
[22:01:37] <wjp> have the 15 minutes passed yet? :-)
[22:03:33] <Fingolfin> yeah they are
[22:03:39] <Fingolfin> ok, I just finished eating ;)
[22:03:42] <Fingolfin> gotta reboot
[22:03:47] <Fingolfin> cya in B.Net? ;)
[22:03:47] <wjp> me too
[22:03:51] <wjp> yup :-)
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[22:03:55] <wjp> bye
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