#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 7 Dec 2005 (GMT)

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[00:06:51] --- sbx|afk is now known as SB-X
[00:07:31] <Baastuul> http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~raza/wtf.jpg
[00:09:08] <Lord_Nightmare> i've seen that picture before
[00:19:30] --> Kirben has joined #exult
[00:19:30] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Kirben
[00:20:43] <Baastuul> KIRBENCAEK
[00:21:00] <Lord_Nightmare> gesundheit!
[00:22:10] <Baastuul> >:o
[00:28:27] <-- SB-X has left IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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[00:32:39] <EsBee-Eks> odd that my internet disconnects as soon as I return
[00:33:18] <Baastuul> It hates you for downloading all of those movies of suspect morality!
[00:47:16] <-- SB-X has left IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[00:52:59] --- EsBee-Eks is now known as SB-X
[00:53:07] <SB-X> Isn't downloading any movie of suspect morality?
[00:53:25] <Baastuul> No, because there are numerous free video clips that are considered movies.
[00:54:28] <SB-X> http://video.google.com
[00:54:39] <SB-X> Is that paint or mustard?
[00:57:02] <Baastuul> I think it's mustard.
[00:57:05] <Baastuul> He looks like a food worker, too.
[00:58:32] <SB-X> heh
[00:58:33] <SB-X> Oh, it's not you?
[01:01:56] <Baastuul> No, sir!
[02:04:36] <servus> There is some anime music video on this Google Videos thing that is outstanding, and I don't even like anime!
[02:04:46] <servus> Twenty papers... That's two dollars.. PLUS TIP
[02:04:52] <servus> Sorry Johnny I don't have a dime!
[02:04:59] <servus> I didn't ask for a dime... Two dollars!
[02:05:01] <servus> Classic!
[02:06:01] <SB-X> Your views are suspect if you don't like anime... but what video are you talking about?
[02:06:55] <servus> It's an hour long!
[02:07:00] <servus> Search for AMV Hell 3
[02:07:16] <servus> It's about five zillion separate music videos because each is about 10 seconds long
[02:07:57] <SB-X> oh
[02:07:58] <SB-X> haha
[02:07:59] <servus> It's the very long "at least I have chicken" one
[02:08:07] <SB-X> i never bothered to watch that
[02:08:31] <servus> It's got that Apple girl going "It was like bleepbleepbleepbleepbleep" a few times
[02:08:34] <servus> And it's about 3 seconds long
[02:09:33] <servus> Ellen Fleiss
[02:10:03] <SB-X> aww, I wanted to see the description of Episode III: The Motion Picture
[02:11:06] <servus> My eyes! The goggles do nothing!
[02:11:23] <SB-X> lol
[02:11:29] <SB-X> google videos are always out of sync for me
[02:13:03] <SB-X> how far into it is the Apple girl?
[02:13:39] <SB-X> nm
[02:13:45] <SB-X> heh :p
[02:16:56] <servus> All over the place
[02:16:59] <servus> bleepbleepbleep
[02:17:35] <SB-X> the titanic one was funny
[02:18:22] <SB-X> although... these look like the worst AMVs
[02:19:43] <SB-X> I prefer this one. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2974005851956318467
[02:19:45] <SB-X> But that's just me.
[02:29:35] <servus> What is with the crazy little girl with the flapping ponytails she flies with?
[02:33:10] <SB-X> I don't know. The Internet? *shrugs*
[02:35:38] <servus> Nooo. You must tell me!
[02:36:22] <SB-X> I don't have the browser open anymore.
[02:37:24] <servus> Punk.
[02:39:22] <SB-X> Oh, did I punk you?
[02:39:26] <SB-X> hehe
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[02:40:51] <SB-X> I just didn't undestand the question, sorry.
[02:41:20] <servus> There is this girl in one out of every 5 videos that has flapping ponytails (as in hair), and she flies with them and when they get ripped off she falls, dead.
[02:41:45] <SB-X> Havn't seen it.
[02:41:54] <servus> Amateur! Well, new topic now.
[02:42:10] <SB-X> aww, ok
[02:42:11] <SB-X> (whew)
[02:44:05] <-- ^Garrett has left IRC (Client Quit)
[02:49:04] <SB-X> There's a character in Paws named Garrett.
[02:49:12] <Baastuul> I hate that prick.
[02:49:14] <Baastuul> He's a cheeky bastard.
[02:49:46] <SB-X> no kidding
[02:51:56] <servus> The game you have lost.
[02:52:10] <servus> So, Baastuul, crank out your Worldcraft and let's make some maps!
[02:52:53] <Baastuul> Weird, I thought you spelled "World of Warcraft" incorrectly for a second.
[02:53:14] <servus> Calm down, crazylegs.
[02:53:20] <Baastuul> Servus, http://www.dannyatherton.com/drawings.html
[02:53:30] <Baastuul> The top portion are my maps and pictures of stuff.
[02:54:13] <servus> I meant smaller maps, like indoors :P
[02:54:39] * SB-X wishes double-clicking links worked in X-Chat.
[02:54:51] <Baastuul> You mean like the drawings of inside houses and the such?
[02:54:55] <servus> Right click and "Open in web browser"
[02:55:15] <servus> Yeah. I have trouble being creative about architecture, but I know very well the sort of atmosphere I want to project.
[02:55:16] <SB-X> i dont have that!
[02:55:26] <servus> I do.
[02:55:28] <servus> Punkaroo
[02:55:32] <SB-X> and none of the browser it displays work, apparently they aren't in my path
[02:55:41] <Baastuul> Servus, have you seen the duckbears terrorizing the town drawing?
[02:55:42] <SB-X> don't blame me, although it is probably my fault
[02:55:44] <Baastuul> http://www.dannyatherton.com/drawings/2005-10-22_Duckbears_Terrorize_Town.jpg
[02:55:46] <servus> Mine opens in Firefox
[02:56:00] <SB-X> /home/sbx/firefox/firefox isn't in my path, surprisingly.
[02:56:14] <servus> Umm, no, cannot honestly say I've seen that
[02:56:18] <servus> It could be.
[02:56:38] <Baastuul> What about my epic stick man battle?
[02:56:38] <Baastuul> http://www.dannyatherton.com/drawings/2005-10-22_Epic_Stick_Man_Battle.jpg
[02:56:47] <servus> Nice, but very far-away :P
[02:56:58] <SB-X> Mozilla works
[02:57:16] <servus> It seems to use a script called sensible-browser
[02:58:14] <servus> export BROWSER=firefox and it will use firefox
[02:58:41] <SB-X> not mine, /home/sbx/firefox/firefox really isn't in my path
[02:58:48] <servus> So make it
[02:58:59] <SB-X> I want to move it to /opt/firefox first
[02:59:00] <servus> mkdir ~/firefox && ln -s `which firefox` ~/firefox/
[02:59:11] <servus> Or export BROWSER="/full/path/firefox"
[02:59:21] <SB-X> where is sensible-browser?
[02:59:40] <servus> /usr/bin/sensible-browser, but I think it's a Debian thing
[02:59:42] <servus> !echo test
[02:59:45] <servus> #echo test
[02:59:50] <SB-X> I made my own script like that.
[02:59:53] <SB-X> but I don't use it
[03:00:06] <servus> Well that's what xchat uses for me, but I'm using Debian-XChat so YMMV
[03:00:06] <SB-X> does it have fallbacks?
[03:00:15] <servus> Probably
[03:00:16] <Baastuul> YMMV?
[03:00:22] <SB-X> my script is called openURL.sh
[03:00:25] <servus> Your mileage may vary
[03:00:37] <SB-X> I Am Not A Lawyer
[03:00:44] <servus> Yeah if I'm in a real terminal, sensible-browser opens elinks
[03:01:20] <SB-X> cool
[03:01:44] <SB-X> BROWSER=/usr/bin/sensible-browser?
[03:02:05] <SB-X> for you
[03:02:21] <servus> BROWSER=firefox for me. Ignore sensible-browser I think it's Debian only
[03:02:50] <SB-X> ok
[03:03:42] <SB-X> thanks
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[03:05:14] <SB-X> There's a character named Shazzana in Monitor, on Serpent Isle.
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[03:17:06] <servus> Sleeeeeeeeepy. Night
[03:17:12] <Baastuul> Already? :o
[03:17:17] <Baastuul> But it's only 17 minutes past 7:00 PM!
[03:21:44] <Sevalecan> not on that side of the moongate!
[03:22:13] <Baastuul> :O
[03:27:18] <SB-X> could be a silver moongate
[03:27:42] <^Garrett> shhh, don't give EA any ideas for UO expansions...
[03:28:22] <SB-X> sorry
[03:28:47] <^Garrett> lol :D
[03:32:14] <-- ^Garrett has left IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.0.7/20050915]")
[03:32:23] * SB-X shrugs.
[05:35:14] --> richcon has joined #exult
[05:36:01] <SB-X> hi richcon
[05:36:22] <richcon> Hi SB-X
[05:36:31] <richcon> how's it going?
[05:37:13] <SB-X> going fine thanks
[05:37:26] <SB-X> servus told me how to make url links clickable in X-Chat :)
[05:37:40] <richcon> Never used X-Chat
[05:38:24] <richcon> I'm using Colloquy (Mac OS X IRC client, really nice)
[05:38:25] <SB-X> what you use?
[05:38:28] <SB-X> oh
[05:38:49] <SB-X> yeah, someone in #nuvie uses that
[05:39:05] <richcon> I looked at Nuvie
[05:39:17] <SB-X> cool
[05:39:24] <SB-X> I'm working on it now.
[05:39:25] <richcon> looks nice, though it's not mature enough to actually play through the game so I did that in DOSBox
[05:39:31] <SB-X> nope
[05:39:32] <richcon> cool
[05:39:44] <richcon> so you work on both Exult and Nuvie? are you on Pentagram too?
[05:39:56] <SB-X> if you actually get to the end if just says "A pity we havn't implemented the endgame sequence yet."
[05:39:57] <SB-X> only Nuvie
[05:40:08] <richcon> oh ok
[05:40:29] <richcon> I walked around a little bit in Nuvie, so the parts that are done seem to work well
[05:40:49] <SB-X> I wish we had done more by now, but anyway it's getting better.
[05:41:07] <SB-X> it will be the best way of playing U6, many more features than the original had
[05:41:44] <SB-X> most publicized being a new interface
[05:41:57] <SB-X> you only played U6 recently? how did you like the interface?
[05:42:27] <richcon> I played Ultima 6 earlier this year for the first time
[05:42:43] <richcon> I bought the Ultima Collection years ago, and have been going through each game in order
[05:42:49] <richcon> Actually I started U6 last year
[05:42:52] <SB-X> that's dedication
[05:42:53] <richcon> finished it this year
[05:43:27] <richcon> I'm a big fan of ultima since I was young, though the only one I ever played through back then was Ultima IV
[05:43:56] <richcon> (I had a broken copy of Ultima III too. Half of the game didn't work, disk problems.)
[05:44:24] <richcon> well, the interface put me off at first, since I was used to how Utlima IV and V worked
[05:44:39] <SB-X> i was going to ask again :)
[05:44:40] <Baastuul> Yeah, it's tough to play later Ultimas first and then play the earlier ones.
[05:44:45] <richcon> Mostly I didn't like the fact that you're looking at the world through a really bad cataract problem
[05:44:54] <Baastuul> hehe
[05:45:03] <Baastuul> The dungeons in the earlier Ultimas give me headaches. :/
[05:45:06] <richcon> In my case, I played earlier ones first
[05:45:19] <richcon> I skipped dungeons entirely in Ultima II. Not necessary to win the game
[05:45:35] <richcon> In I and III I only did the minimum I needed. But in IV, they were actually fun to go through
[05:45:44] <SB-X> that's the biggest problem with U6... it's an intermediate step between U5 and U7... and they kept too many of the GUI elements from U5
[05:45:58] <SB-X> with the new graphics they should've gone fullscreen
[05:45:58] <richcon> But those same GUI elements worked perfectly in V
[05:46:13] <richcon> well, wasn't it full screen given the low resolutions of the screens back then?
[05:46:18] <SB-X> because you were always using the keyboard
[05:46:19] <richcon> Just not on modern hardware
[05:46:41] <richcon> Yep. It wasn't an easy transition from keyboard to mouse
[05:47:06] <richcon> By the way, I do miss having to actually type words to talk to people :)
[05:47:16] <SB-X> heh
[05:47:19] <richcon> it was more emersive
[05:47:45] <SB-X> you'll still be able to do that in Nuvie, but an optional keyword list will be available
[05:47:54] <SB-X> the FM-Towns version of U6 had clickable keywords like U7
[05:48:02] <SB-X> so that's one reason to add it to Nuvie
[05:48:25] <SB-X> secret keywords still need to be typed in
[05:48:56] <SB-X> Do you prefer 3D or 2D dungeons?
[05:49:08] <richcon> brb.
[05:50:06] <richcon> back
[05:50:08] <SB-X> I wonder if it's possible to convert the dungeons of later games into 3D, where it looks similiar to the old dungeons. (or Ultima Underworld)
[05:50:54] <richcon> Having to type in words makes you think about what you're asking people. When I click keywords, half of the time I forget what I originally asked. It feels less like talking to people and more like clicking through a computer program
[05:51:19] <SB-X> good point
[05:52:13] <richcon> That's the same reason I like limited visibility in games like III through V.. you can only see line of sight. Makes you feel more like you're creeping around a corner when you're walking through a castle :)
[05:52:19] <SB-X> and occasionally when you click them nothing happens, and you wonder if its a bug or something
[05:52:39] <richcon> I posted that bug to the exult list :)
[05:52:59] <richcon> from Serpent Isle. Bug in the original game
[05:53:02] <SB-X> i didn't see the bug about crashing when opening inventories
[05:53:09] <richcon> I didn't post it yet
[05:53:12] <SB-X> oh
[05:53:15] <richcon> I wanted to do some more testing on my own first
[05:53:28] <richcon> I don't like posting bugs without checking into it first to see if I can find something
[05:53:45] <richcon> It's not like Exult 1.4 final is shipping tomorrow
[05:53:55] <SB-X> maybe
[05:53:55] <SB-X> heh
[05:53:59] <SB-X> it's good to be sure anyway
[05:54:25] <SB-X> About visibility... Ultima is not Thief, do you really need to be creeping around the castle halls? ;)
[05:55:03] <richcon> Anything that makes it feel more like you're playing a person and less like you're God controlling an army is good for roleplaying games
[05:55:25] <richcon> Limitations like that add to the game by taking you out of the God role
[05:55:36] <SB-X> In U6 you at least can't see past closed doors. In U7 you can see anywhere that doesn't have a roof.
[05:55:41] <richcon> It also makes it more challenging to find secret passages
[05:55:59] <SB-X> so you prefer 3D dungeons?
[05:56:01] <richcon> Until you're under a roof, then you can see everywhere under roofs too
[05:56:09] <SB-X> heh
[05:56:21] <richcon> I don't know. 3D dungeons were "cool"
[05:56:24] <SB-X> yeah that's even worse
[05:56:58] <SB-X> I just realized if you converted 2D into 3D you'd still have 2D monster sprites.
[05:57:03] <richcon> If they were done Underworld style, that might work better
[05:57:21] <SB-X> I always thought Underworld was an advancement of the original style.
[05:57:32] <SB-X> just more movement ability
[05:57:37] <richcon> brb
[05:58:00] <richcon> back
[05:58:02] <richcon> Yeah.
[05:58:36] <richcon> But the top down map worked well too. The line of sight limitation made it feel more like you're just one person without actually showing a 3D view of what you're seeing
[05:58:55] <richcon> I definitely didn't like the Ultima V dungeons
[05:59:12] <richcon> they were boring. But Ultima IV were good.
[05:59:21] <SB-X> Hmm I don't remember, what was the difference?
[05:59:41] <richcon> IV had very detailed dungeons with lots of rooms to explore
[05:59:56] <richcon> The 3D view was used in the hallways, but most of your time was spent in top-down rooms
[06:00:01] <richcon> and the rooms were very creatively done
[06:00:22] <richcon> Dungeons in V were under-developed. They were more of a 3D maze to go through.
[06:00:32] <richcon> With very few rooms
[06:01:06] <SB-X> Weren't the last rooms in all the dungeons in 2D? That's the only top-down areas I remembered.
[06:01:57] <richcon> In IV or V?
[06:02:12] <SB-X> both
[06:02:16] <SB-X> and III
[06:02:20] <richcon> All rooms were 2D
[06:02:24] <richcon> All halls were 3D
[06:02:34] <SB-X> oh
[06:02:53] <richcon> Ultima IV really spent time developing the rooms though, and there were sections where you went directly from one room to another
[06:03:24] <SB-X> ah k
[06:03:28] <richcon> In V, most dungeon levels had no rooms at all, just a maze of halls to walk through. Mazes aren't very much fun, especially when every hall looks the same as every other
[06:03:34] <SB-X> I never played that far in UIV.
[06:03:39] <richcon> Ok
[06:03:44] <richcon> You should play it sometime all the way through
[06:03:45] <SB-X> How do you like the designs in VI?
[06:03:50] <richcon> It's still my favorite of the group
[06:03:53] <SB-X> heh, yes I know
[06:03:58] <richcon> I think I said that the other day :)
[06:04:15] <richcon> Story is probably the simplest. There's just one plot line, and you know from the get go what you have to do to win
[06:04:22] <richcon> The entire game is figuring out how to do it
[06:04:37] <SB-X> it works very well though, from what I've heard
[06:04:44] <richcon> Yep
[06:05:27] <richcon> The other day I actually was thinking about if it's possible to recreate Ultima IV using the Exult engine (via Exult Studio). It probably is, but it'd take adding some new features to it
[06:05:59] <richcon> Not like I'll have time to do it :)
[06:12:51] <SB-X> did you like the dungeon designs of UVI?
[06:13:18] <SB-X> and im surprised nobody has done that already
[06:14:00] <richcon> They were OK, nothing jumped out as great. I didn't spend much time in them except as needed to get through the game
[06:14:14] <richcon> They weren't bad though
[06:14:31] <richcon> And parts were fun
[06:15:03] <SB-X> yeah there are only a few you need to go through... the only one that is a maze is the ant hill
[06:15:27] <SB-X> The thing I like about them is that they are all connected.
[06:15:53] <SB-X> You can walk to Buccaneer's Den.
[06:15:58] <richcon> Yeah. That was nice.
[06:16:05] <richcon> That was done in Ultima IV too
[06:16:16] <richcon> all the dungeons except the Abyss were interconnected
[06:16:34] <SB-X> ah, nice
[06:16:38] <SB-X> what happened to the abyss?
[06:17:25] <SB-X> it's not in U6
[06:19:44] <richcon> It wasn't in V either. The incredible levels of magic needed to raise the Codex to the surface melted the entire Abyss down
[06:20:10] <SB-X> ah k
[06:20:12] <richcon> In V, all that's left of the Abyss is a pool of lava in the Underworld with the Avatar's old equipment hidden in the middle of it
[06:20:23] <richcon> (though it somehow reappeared in time for Ultima Underworld)
[06:20:42] <SB-X> hehe
[06:20:47] <richcon> apparantly, the Avatar was sent home immediately after reaching the bottom of the Abyss and opening the door to the Codex
[06:20:55] <richcon> and his equipment was left behind.
[06:21:12] <SB-X> the U6 game.exe contains the text "Great Stygian Abyss" but it's never used
[06:21:37] <richcon> In what context?
[06:21:52] <SB-X> dungeon names
[06:22:14] <SB-X> it's in the list, so maybe they intended to add it but never did
[06:23:30] <richcon> ok
[06:24:01] <SB-X> there's always stuff left out in the games, Lord British wanted to add potion mixing to U7
[06:24:07] <richcon> maybe they originally meant for it to be the main path to the Underworld until someone remembered that the Abyss was destroyed, so they used Hythloth instead
[06:24:15] <richcon> ?
[06:24:17] <SB-X> heh
[06:24:26] <SB-X> that's a possible reason
[06:24:37] <richcon> the Abyss was the original path to the Codex, which we now know was in a gargoyle temple
[06:24:39] <SB-X> Hythloth couldve been the abyss
[06:24:58] <SB-X> wasn't the abyss associated with humility too?
[06:25:02] <richcon> No
[06:25:08] <richcon> Hythloth was associated with Humility
[06:25:10] <SB-X> spirituality?
[06:25:15] <SB-X> oops
[06:25:18] <SB-X> so hythloth was in U4
[06:25:22] <richcon> Yes
[06:25:32] <richcon> The Abyss was the ninth dungeon I think
[06:25:40] <richcon> Not associated with any virtue
[06:26:01] <SB-X> or it's the lack of all virtues
[06:26:33] <richcon> And to get in, you needed to have beat all eight other dungeons (to the point of recovering its Stone, and then using the stones in the three Altar rooms connecting all eight dungeons except for Hythloth)
[06:26:55] <richcon> Well each dungeon was the opposite of a virtue
[06:27:38] <SB-X> http://luteijn.xs4all.nl/html/u6o/
[06:27:48] <SB-X> that's where I read about it
[06:28:20] <richcon> Ok
[06:28:28] <richcon> Or you could have just played Ultima IV :)
[06:28:33] <SB-X> the thing about potions in U7, I read about that in the exult forum or something
[06:28:34] <richcon> same information you get from playing through IV
[06:28:43] <richcon> what about potions?
[06:28:53] <SB-X> potion mixing
[06:29:17] <richcon> Did you play through Black Gate?
[06:29:24] <SB-X> yep
[06:29:39] <richcon> You have to learn about potion mixing to free Skara Brae
[06:29:57] <SB-X> I like the ending but the enemies were insanely easy to beat.
[06:30:01] <SB-X> really?
[06:30:07] <SB-X> oh
[06:30:08] <richcon> did you ever kill the liche?
[06:30:18] <SB-X> that's right, but that's only in once instance :)
[06:30:27] <richcon> yep. But it's enough to let you know it's possible.
[06:30:31] <SB-X> I try to avoid liches.
[06:30:44] <richcon> The liche in Skara Brae
[06:31:10] <SB-X> Horance?
[06:31:19] <richcon> yes, him
[06:31:26] <richcon> I couldn't remember his human name :)
[06:31:28] <SB-X> I talked to him.
[06:31:52] <richcon> But you didn't get so far as to kill him and free the island?
[06:32:07] <SB-X> you have to kill him?
[06:32:12] <richcon> It's one of the sub plots
[06:32:16] <richcon> To free the people of Skara Brae
[06:32:44] <SB-X> man I'm not remembering much of this at all
[06:32:51] <richcon> When you do that, Caine will give you some information you need
[06:32:59] <SB-X> don't you just trap him?
[06:33:01] <richcon> I don't know if it's necessary to win the game though
[06:33:09] <SB-X> I played through that part.
[06:33:51] <richcon> You trap him first so you can kill him (at least kill the demon possessing him and making him a liche). Then his human spirit thanks you for freeing him too before going on to the afterlife.
[06:34:20] <SB-X> Then I killed him. :)O
[06:34:28] <richcon> ok :)
[06:34:33] <richcon> I just played it
[06:34:44] <SB-X> it was only a few years ago for me
[06:34:50] <SB-X> but I don't remember the details
[06:35:13] <SB-X> point is it's not possible to get other potions that way though
[06:36:33] <richcon> I thought it might be, but I didn't try it
[06:36:57] <SB-X> it's a possible feature that could be added to Exult
[06:37:10] <SB-X> probably entirely through usecode
[06:38:40] <richcon> By the way, what's your name on the Nuvie forum?
[06:38:51] <SB-X> SB-X
[06:39:30] <richcon> Oh there you go. I didn't see SB-X at first
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[07:36:37] <richcon> I wonder if Pentagram will be playable by the time I'm finished with Serpent Isle :)
[07:49:00] <SB-X> It's playable now.
[07:49:52] <SB-X> Last I heard there were a few bugs that you could easily work around, but those might be fixed by now.
[08:17:09] <richcon> cool
[08:17:35] <richcon> I don't think I'll be done with Serpent Isle until sometime next year (maybe a month or so), maybe they'll have a few more bugs fixed by then
[08:17:38] <richcon> anyway
[08:17:40] <richcon> I'm taking off
[08:17:45] <richcon> nice talking to you
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