#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 7 Feb 2003 (GMT)

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[01:14:41] <Servus> no
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[06:20:18] <Colourless> hm, for crying out loud, why does it persist in joining as Cless|Away... oh hi btw
[06:20:26] <Yuv422> hey
[06:21:17] * Yuv422 is ripping out hair while trying to debug on the xbox
[06:21:40] <Colourless> :-)
[06:22:18] <Yuv422> looks like xbox doesn't like fprintf's
[06:22:30] <Yuv422> to stderr. ;)
[06:22:36] <Yuv422> whih is understandable
[06:22:39] <Yuv422> which
[06:22:42] <royalsexy> hey Colourless, using on.net :)
[06:22:58] * royalsexy <3 internode
[06:23:06] <Yuv422> hi royal
[06:23:12] <royalsexy> g'day :)
[06:23:36] <Colourless> i've been internode for 'years' now
[06:24:08] * Colourless of courses uses ye-olde modem
[06:24:28] <royalsexy> ahh, i signed up with them a few months ago, on das dsl, it rocks :)
[06:24:40] <royalsexy> now i can irc with greater speed :P
[06:24:53] <Yuv422> broadband is too expensive in aus. :(
[06:25:02] * royalsexy nods
[06:25:23] <Colourless> Yuv422: you tried out the stuff i sent you?
[06:25:23] <Yuv422> and pay per meg is a terrible way to sell broadband :(
[06:25:33] <Yuv422> yeah.
[06:25:46] <Yuv422> still having troubles with SDL in general though
[06:26:10] <Colourless> if i went with anyone for bb, i would go with internode for sure.... something about their rates just be more than a little bit better than tesltra for example
[06:26:32] <royalsexy> heh just a touch :)
[06:26:50] <Yuv422> I take it you in aus too royal?
[06:27:00] * royalsexy nods
[06:27:05] <Colourless> he is in qld
[06:27:09] <Yuv422> ah k
[06:27:15] * royalsexy hands Yuv422 a /whois
[06:27:16] <Colourless> at least that is what is dns says
[06:27:33] <royalsexy> and i'm unspoofed on this network - eek! ;)
[06:27:54] <Yuv422> ah yes I see now.
[06:29:30] <Colourless> Yuv422: on the xbox, you should be able to write a file to the HDD, no?
[06:29:55] <Yuv422> that's what I thought
[06:30:16] <Yuv422> I seem to be having trouble on rebuilds.
[06:30:37] <Yuv422> it doesn't seem to re generate the xbox binary. :(
[06:32:48] <Colourless> how exactly does the tcpip debugging output work?
[06:33:12] <Yuv422> I have to clean and rebuild to get an updated output.xbe file :(
[06:33:38] <Colourless> ok, i take it the problems are after you've re-built sdl?
[06:33:40] <Yuv422> the tcp/ip debugger is just a class for sending messages back to the computer via tcp/ip
[06:35:36] <Colourless> if so, how are you linking to the sdl library? by just adding it to the list of libraries, of by making the SDL project a dependancy of the Exult project.
[06:35:55] <Yuv422> I just added the lib in the linker settings
[06:36:32] <Yuv422> and added the path to the lib in the libpath field
[06:36:35] <Colourless> that's not the way you want to actually be doing it
[06:36:48] <Colourless> are your exult and sdl projects in the same workspace?
[06:36:56] <Yuv422> yes
[06:37:08] <Colourless> ok. click on the exult project
[06:37:18] <Yuv422> I'm playing around with a small test SDL project at the moment
[06:37:26] <Yuv422> which is also in that workspace
[06:37:30] <Colourless> Project, Dependencies in the menu
[06:38:03] <Colourless> select the 'project' you want. then check SDL for that project. Then remove sdl.lib from the list of libs for that project.
[06:38:14] <Yuv422> righto
[06:39:52] <Yuv422> so that will recompile my test app if I change somthing in SDL?
[06:40:03] <Yuv422> and recompile the test app.
[06:40:06] <Colourless> no, it will just re-link it
[06:40:48] <Colourless> usually what you just do is stay selected on the test app project, and it if something is changed in the SDL project it will recompile sdl, and then relink the test app
[06:41:16] <Yuv422> that's what I ment by the above comment.
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[06:41:46] <Yuv422> I'm just calling SDL_init()
[06:41:50] <Yuv422> myself that ok?
[06:41:55] <Yuv422> that's
[06:42:27] <Servus> h'lo darke
[06:42:47] * Darke waves. Hi.
[06:42:53] <Servus> is the exult team interested in GL-Exult?
[06:42:57] <Colourless> make sure you use the SDL_INIT_NOPARACHUTE flag
[06:43:10] <Yuv422> yeah got that on.
[06:43:16] <Servus> its an interesting idea, methinks
[06:43:35] <Colourless> but i don't think anyone is exactly interested in i
[06:43:35] <Colourless> t
[06:43:46] <Yuv422> exult projected on a GL surface? ;)
[06:43:59] <Servus> that defeats the point :)
[06:44:01] <Servus> full-3d exult
[06:44:26] <Servus> if you actually expected to sell exult-xbox, do you think theyd let you sell a game with 2d 1992 graphics? :)
[06:44:44] <Yuv422> why would I sell it?
[06:44:45] <Colourless> easier said than done. re-creating all the art assets....
[06:44:52] <Servus> i like recreating art:P
[06:45:10] <Servus> and the map contains 90% of the data you need to do it, and do it right
[06:45:26] <Colourless> here is what the pentagram workspace (where i was testing out porting a 'simplefor
[06:45:26] <Servus> just gotta add elevations for the ground
[06:45:37] * Yuv422 likes U7 the way it is.
[06:45:46] <Colourless> app for wince) http://www.users.on.net/triforce/emvc.png
[06:46:08] * Servus mumbles something to Yuv422 about visionaries never being accepted in their life.. hehe*g*
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[06:48:59] <Servus> wb
[06:50:14] <Servus> i was envisioning something similar to ultima online 3d
[06:50:39] <Servus> if richard garriot still ran origin, i bet he'd let you use the uo3d data files for the project too:P
[06:51:02] <Colourless> uo's perspective is diifferent to u7s
[06:51:12] <Servus> (3d)
[06:51:27] <Servus> perspective is relative:)
[06:52:12] <Colourless> yes I know, but things can become a bit strange when attempting to change perspective when it's assume to be a certain way
[06:53:53] <Servus> coren uses the uo3d models in his LoW project, and they look just great, from a first person perspective, so i think theyre pretty well-designed models
[06:55:37] <Colourless> now, i'm not going to say that for sure it wont work, because it might, it would most likely just look different
[06:55:40] <Yuv422> it's wierd to get the output file to refresh I must clean the build.
[06:55:55] <Yuv422> oh and there were some issues with the audio
[06:56:16] <Colourless> i'm guessing headers
[06:56:48] <Yuv422> with the IID pointer
[06:57:09] <Colourless> oh, (you didn't give me directsound headers so I wasn't sure if it was going to be ok)
[06:57:11] <Servus> isnt different the point, tho? the models have been proven from a 3rd and 1st person perspective,, and the uo3d models arent even in contention, really... i was just throwing out an idea, *shrugs*
[06:58:36] <Servus> i had good success with the project i describe... good success being relative to me, as im not exactly john carmack when it comes to that type of programming :-)... but i saw potential beyond what my current skills would/will allow
[06:58:45] <Colourless> all i can say is this, i've tried putting normal looking models into the u7 perspective and they don't really look 'right' (for the game). they just look too thin
[06:59:16] <Colourless> the npc shapes in u7 aren't very realistically proportioned
[06:59:24] <Servus> http://www.geocities.com/russell_figowitz/images/Misc/ult2.jpg look at this piece of crud
[06:59:32] <Colourless> with pentagram and ultima8, which has realistic proportioned shapes, i'm half planning on updating NPCs to 3d models
[07:00:38] <Servus> http://www.geocities.com/russell_figowitz/images/Misc/u7.jpg or this
[07:01:27] <Servus> i seemed to have lost my build that let both of the pics in u7.jpg coincide, but the walls are created directly from the U7 map file, with no guesswork or funny business involved
[07:02:07] <Yuv422> truth be told, I'd rather play U6 than U8. ;)
[07:03:10] <Colourless> converting straight to bounding boxes isn't difficult :-)
[07:03:11] <Servus> i really liked u8, darn it
[07:03:56] <Servus> each rectangular prism you see is just a sprite, so to speak... i didnt bother optimizing it by reducing long stretches of coplanar walls to a single quad
[07:04:15] <Servus> but i bet you recognize where in the map that is :-)
[07:06:15] <Yuv422> that's what I ment to tell you colourless.
[07:06:29] <Yuv422> the directsound functions don't have the 8 ;)
[07:07:39] <Yuv422> righto
[07:08:44] <Yuv422> I'm slowly creeping through SDL_VideoInit
[07:08:55] <Yuv422> I'll find where it crashes soon. ;)
[07:09:24] <Colourless> :-)
[07:09:58] <Yuv422> SDL_SetError("get here2.");
[07:10:10] <Servus> do you have some sort of xbox emulator?
[07:10:13] <Colourless> would be nice if you could use the old I don't have a debugger method of putting printf ("%s:%d\n", __FILE__, __LINE__); everywhere :-)
[07:10:31] <Yuv422> yeah tell me about it.
[07:10:53] <Yuv422> when we get the video up it should be easier.
[07:11:19] <Colourless> yeah
[07:11:59] <Yuv422> looks like it might be in the dummy event loop.
[07:12:09] <Yuv422> or lack of event loop :)
[07:12:38] <Yuv422> in win32 can you catch a segfault programaticly?
[07:12:52] <Colourless> yes you can
[07:13:08] <Yuv422> via a signal?
[07:13:09] <Colourless> just don't ask me exactly how it work :-)
[07:13:13] <Colourless> yeah signal handlers
[07:13:33] <Colourless> i'll see if running the xbox dummy event stuff here causes a problem
[07:13:59] <Yuv422> righto
[07:15:13] <Colourless> crashes here
[07:15:18] <Colourless> i should be able to fix it then
[07:15:24] <Yuv422> next stop SDL_StartEventLoop(flags)
[07:15:30] <Yuv422> cool
[07:15:35] <Yuv422> where abouts?
[07:15:53] <Colourless> not sure yet (ran a release build with no dubbing info)
[07:16:06] <Colourless> static void XBOX_UpdateRects(_THIS, int numrects, SDL_Rect *rects)
[07:16:06] <Colourless> {
[07:16:06] <Colourless> IDirect3DDevice8_Present(g_lpD3DDevice, 0, 0, 0, 0);
[07:16:06] <Colourless> /* do nothing. */
[07:16:06] <Colourless> }
[07:16:18] <Colourless> it attempts to draw the cursor
[07:16:46] <Colourless> add in if (g_lpD3DDevice)
[07:17:19] <Colourless> in front of the specified line to fix it
[07:17:42] <Yuv422> so it's trying to draw the cursor before the video is initialised?
[07:17:47] <Colourless> yes
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[07:35:27] <Yuv422_> damn modem dropped
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[07:39:55] <Colourless> does sdl initialize yet?
[07:40:07] <Yuv422_> I'll try it now
[07:43:39] <Yuv422_> yes :)
[07:48:00] <Yuv422_> D:\Program Files\Microsoft Xbox SDK\xbox\include\DSound.h(196) : see declaration of '_DSBUFFERDESC'
[07:50:56] <Colourless> got to go
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[08:33:03] <Servus> is there an escape code or format specifier for outputting numbers in binary form in C or C++?
[08:53:10] <Yuv422_> I don't think so
[08:53:48] <Darke> IIRC, '0b' is a GCC extension.
[08:54:16] <Yuv422_> I think he was talking more about display, right?
[08:54:55] <Yuv422_> and 0644 for octal
[08:55:12] <Servus> i have a DWORD long var, and i want to display it as all binary
[08:55:28] <Yuv422_> just write a little function to do it. :)
[08:55:32] <Servus> 0000 0001 = 0x0 | 0x1 :-) (its for a bitflag system)
[08:55:49] <Servus> #include <Math.h>
[08:55:53] <Servus> ack
[08:56:06] <Servus> tell me what you think : http://www.geocities.com/russell_figowitz/images/Misc/Engine.jpg :-)
[08:56:17] <Yuv422_> if(num & 1<<i) printf("1"); else printf("0");
[08:56:46] <Servus> ja but i dont have a console ;)
[08:56:49] <Yuv422_> where i goes from max bit to 0
[08:57:03] <Servus> id have to use a stream
[08:58:17] <Servus> thats what its for, see the "flags:1" thing on the bottom right? thats in decimal form
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[11:22:35] <V0|D> hello
[11:27:27] <Servus> hi
[11:27:29] <Darke> 'ello.
[11:28:34] <V0|D> so whats new?
[11:48:18] <V0|D> time for sleep, goodbye
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[12:10:51] <wjp> hi
[12:10:58] <Yuv422_> hi
[12:13:50] <Yuv422_> I found a small typeo in one of the classes I told colourless about it.
[12:13:52] <Darke> Hi.
[12:14:59] <Yuv422_> in gamewin ::theft
[12:15:23] <Yuv422_> closest_dist + dist;
[12:15:29] * wjp nods
[12:15:31] <wjp> it's been fixed
[12:15:49] <Yuv422_> :)
[12:17:46] <wjp> (into 'closest_dist = dist;', btw)
[12:18:14] <Yuv422_> ah k I'll make the changes on my copy too.
[12:18:46] <Yuv422_> I'm gighting with DirectX 8 at the moment.
[12:18:49] <Yuv422_> fighting
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[12:55:00] <Colourless> HI
[12:55:00] <Yuv422_> hey colourless
[12:55:12] <Colourless> got the error message email
[12:55:22] <Colourless> should have something for you 'real soon now'
[12:56:02] <Yuv422_> it's faulting in IDirect3D8_CreateDevice :(
[12:57:14] <Colourless> any specifics that you can give?
[12:58:19] <wjp> hi
[12:58:19] <Yuv422_> hmm I'm just trying it with D3DCREATE_HARDWARE_VERTEXPROCESSING
[12:58:32] <Yuv422_> you had it set on software
[12:58:43] <Yuv422_> that might not be supported by the xbox
[12:59:04] <Colourless> yeah, I don't have D3DCREATE_HARDWARE_VERTEXPROCESSING vertex processing on my machine... so it kind of doesn't work :-)
[13:00:57] <Yuv422_> nope that didn't fix it :(
[13:01:40] <Colourless> try forcing it to D3DSWAPEFFECT_COPY_VSYNC
[13:01:48] <Colourless> and removing D3DPRESENTFLAG_LOCKABLE_BACKBUFFER
[13:01:57] <Colourless> oops i meant D3DSWAPEFFECT_FLIP
[13:01:58] <Yuv422_> right
[13:04:54] <Colourless> if it works, it will probably crash somewhere else :-)
[13:05:08] <Yuv422_> :( yeah tell me about it.
[13:06:56] <Yuv422_> got it
[13:07:14] <Colourless> it works?
[13:07:26] <Yuv422_> with SWAP_DISCARD
[13:07:31] <Yuv422_> and flags = 0
[13:07:34] <Yuv422_> yeah it worked
[13:07:44] <Yuv422_> well that little bit
[13:07:47] <Colourless> hmm, ok. means i'll need to re-work it
[13:08:02] <Colourless> shouldn't be a problem though
[13:08:09] <Colourless> just needs a 'trick' :-)
[13:08:12] <Yuv422_> want me to try flip method for swap?
[13:08:40] <Colourless> yeah set it to flip, but it doesn't really matter.
[13:08:44] <Yuv422_> do you think it is the swapping method or the locking or both?
[13:09:01] <Colourless> if it's not working with lockable then we have a problem, and i need to do other things
[13:09:14] <Yuv422_> let me test that then
[13:09:44] <Colourless> if it requires DISCARD, then we might also have a problem..
[13:10:13] <Colourless> however, if you can use lockable, things should work, but just look really really wrong :-)
[13:12:34] <Yuv422_> it work with lockable backbuffer. :)
[13:13:04] <Yuv422_> maybe we need more than 1 backbuffer for the other swap modes?
[13:13:38] <Colourless> it shouldn't matter
[13:14:01] <Yuv422_> so what is flip doing then?
[13:14:14] <Colourless> well, you have the front buffer and back buffer
[13:14:43] <Yuv422_> so that is always included in the swap chain?
[13:14:58] <Colourless> with flip, it will exchange the buffers. so the back becomes the front and the front becomes the back. simple, this is the normal type of buffer flipping
[13:15:23] <Colourless> with copy, the buffers are not exchanged, except the contents of the back buffer is copied to the front buffer
[13:16:04] <Yuv422_> and discard, the back buffer becomes the front and the ol front is discarded?
[13:16:57] <Colourless> discard is a flag that is supposed to discard the contents of the 'new' back buffer once the buffers have been flipped/swapped
[13:18:50] <Yuv422_> flip mode works
[13:18:56] <Colourless> discard pretty much works the same as flip
[13:20:52] <Yuv422_> oh this is working in 32 bpp mode btw
[13:21:01] <Yuv422_> 640x480
[13:22:52] <Colourless> as i would expect
[13:22:59] <Colourless> are you running as NTSC or PAL?
[13:23:17] <Colourless> progressive or interlaced?
[13:23:24] <Yuv422_> PAL of course. ;)
[13:23:30] <Colourless> i guess with pal, you are running interlaced...
[13:23:39] <Yuv422_> hmm probably
[13:23:54] <Yuv422_> does it make a difference on the software side of things?
[13:24:16] <Yuv422_> I know the xbox has a 60HzPAL mode :)
[13:24:17] <Colourless> in theory it shouldn't but for what i'm trying to do, it might
[13:24:53] <Yuv422_> but by default it should be set to PAL 50Hz
[13:24:55] <Colourless> ah regardless, i'll set things up so it always uses D3DSWAPEFFECT_FLIP
[13:25:39] <Colourless> exult runs slow enough that 50Hz vs 60Hz wont matter... BUT the graphics will look more correct in the NTSC aspect ratios. They will look a little squashed in PAL modes
[13:26:20] <Colourless> so PAL60 would look a tad better
[13:26:47] <Yuv422_> maybe smoother :)
[13:27:02] <Yuv422_> I think it is basically there for timing with american games
[13:27:08] <Yuv422_> made for NTSC systems
[13:27:30] <Yuv422_> what does this do? IDirect3DDevice8_TestCooperativeLevel
[13:27:39] <Yuv422_> it seems to be missing on the xbox.
[13:27:43] <Colourless> not needed for exbos
[13:27:50] <Colourless> s/exbos/xbox/
[13:27:59] <Yuv422_> right it's been ifdef'd out. :)
[13:28:06] <Colourless> needed for windows though :-)
[13:28:26] <Colourless> well, not entirely needed, but If i want to be able to Alt-Tab back into the app, i need it :-)
[13:29:00] <Yuv422_> why the 4 present instructions in a row?
[13:30:21] <Colourless> umm, debugging :-)
[13:30:26] <Colourless> only needs to be one :-)
[13:30:36] <Colourless> actually doesn't need to be any at all
[13:31:14] <Yuv422_> :)
[13:32:35] <Yuv422_> hmm some screen movement detected :)
[13:33:22] <Yuv422_> the loader screen buffer was chopped and moved about half way to the right. ;)
[13:36:41] <Yuv422_> WE HAVE A PICTURE!!!!!!!!!
[13:36:52] * Yuv422_ does a dance!
[13:37:10] <Yuv422_> but was it the right picture?
[13:37:46] <Colourless> :-)
[13:38:41] <Yuv422_> well we got right through the test app.
[13:38:58] <Colourless> great
[13:38:58] <Yuv422_> but I'm not sure that we are displaying the right video.
[13:39:04] <Colourless> i doubt it :-)
[13:39:12] <Yuv422_> can you run the SDL test app bitmap for me
[13:39:16] <Colourless> just wait a bit and I'll have some reworked code :-)
[13:39:19] <Yuv422_> and tell me what you see.
[13:39:24] <Yuv422_> righto
[13:39:25] <Colourless> um, not not right now, can't say I have it
[13:39:32] <Yuv422_> ah k
[13:39:41] <Colourless> well, not compiled anyway
[13:40:07] <Colourless> i'll compile and see what I get
[13:40:34] <Yuv422_> righto
[13:40:35] <Colourless> which one do you want me to run?
[13:40:43] <Yuv422_> testbitmap
[13:41:45] <Yuv422_> I get a gray to white screen
[13:42:27] <Colourless> same here
[13:42:38] <Yuv422_> excellent!
[13:43:18] <Yuv422_> does exult wait or poll for events?
[13:44:02] <Colourless> it will poll for events
[13:44:13] <Yuv422_> right
[13:44:22] <Colourless> try the test palette program
[13:44:34] <Yuv422_> ok
[13:45:00] <Colourless> needs sail.bmp
[13:47:58] <Yuv422_> this is going to need a bit of modification.
[13:48:07] <Colourless> i know :-)
[13:54:24] <Colourless> ok, got a new file for you to test
[13:54:39] <Yuv422_> ok :)
[13:59:05] <Yuv422_> palette test not so good :(
[13:59:19] <Yuv422_> screen flashed white the black then nothing
[13:59:22] <Colourless> sent you a new version
[13:59:22] <Yuv422_> then
[13:59:33] <Yuv422_> looking at it now
[14:10:11] <Yuv422_> hmm crashes again
[14:10:15] <Yuv422_> let me check
[14:18:56] <Colourless> got go to go for a bit
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[14:48:30] <Yuv422_> It is crashing in SetVideoMode again :(
[14:48:41] <Yuv422_> I'm off to bed now.
[14:48:50] <Yuv422_> I'll look at it tomorrow.
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