#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 7 Jan 2005 (GMT)

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[00:16:35] <servus> You're right. That Kill Wrathy ship did look funny. Fixed.
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[01:45:17] <Baastuul> Hi, Cytech.
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[06:05:39] <Baastuul> Good night.
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[06:52:03] <sbx> hi Colourless
[06:53:35] <Colourless> hi
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[09:00:34] <servus> I really, really, really... really-really-really-really-really-really-really-really-really-really-really really dislike Visual Studio 2003.
[09:02:23] <sbx> hello servus
[09:02:28] <sbx> what's wrong with it?
[09:03:09] <servus> Everything! First we have the completely counterproductive interface, then we have real problems like dog-slow binaries, especially in runtime, a lack of a recompile-and-continue mode in debug that works, et cetera.
[09:03:21] <servus> s/runtime/debug mode/
[09:05:01] <sbx> I have MSVC6 on a CD somewhere but havn't used any more recent Visual Studio.
[09:05:50] <servus> I have MSVC 4,5,6, and 2003. I use 6 for everything but Exult :-)
[09:05:50] <sbx> Someone had a question for you on the Exult forum about model format.
[09:06:02] <servus> Oh, I forgot about that. I'll go find him and tell him
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[09:17:58] <servus> Posted.
[09:49:15] <sbx> I like it!
[09:49:26] <sbx> Why can't you make the flying carpet fly at a higher level?
[09:49:51] <sbx> It might even hit trees if you don't.
[10:00:35] <servus> Well I didn't want to change game logic is the thing.
[10:00:46] <servus> Wouldn't that require me changing... usecode, or something? *Erk*
[10:01:48] <sbx> I don't know I assumed the carpet usecode calls an intrinsic.
[10:03:00] <servus> Can we get an Exult Sensai on the line?
[10:05:59] <wjp> sensai?
[10:08:39] <sbx> kanpai!
[10:09:12] <wjp> 'sensai' appears to mean 'late wife', 'incompetence', 'war damage', or a number of other things
[10:12:29] <servus> You know, like Splinter was to the Ninja Turtles. What's the answer to the question? :-)
[10:12:41] <sbx> 'hentai' means 'formation' or 'transformation' as well as 'pervert'; I only learned this two days ago
[10:13:00] <servus> Bukake is a type of food too, but what's this got to do with magic carpets? :-)
[10:13:18] <wjp> I'll assume you mean 'sensei', I guess :-)
[10:13:35] <servus> That rat-man had a lisp.
[10:13:53] <wjp> I don't have any disassembled usecode lying around here, so I can't be sure, but from a quick look at the barge/intrinsic code, it's probably done by usecode
[10:14:01] <sbx> No!
[10:14:15] <sbx> Iie!
[10:14:24] <servus> Entirely? We're talking about the lifting up/down action, which is probably done in the same way as the falling sign at noon. What's your take on the matter, wjp?
[10:14:51] <sbx> In any case, that's what Usecode patches are for. :)
[10:15:46] <servus> It's up to you guys.
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[10:44:09] <sbx> servus: Up to who?
[10:45:17] <servus> Whomever wants to make a commitment, and has the usecode knowledge about how feasible it is :-)
[10:45:20] <servus> Mmm. making broken fences. Fun!
[10:46:36] <sbx> Just make a regular fence and break it.
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[10:49:10] <servus> Well yeah, that's what I'm doing. There are a lot of different broken fence frames:)
[10:49:31] <sbx> Oh I guess it really is fun then.
[10:49:38] <sbx> And broken chairs.
[10:49:42] <servus> Aligning fences was a pain, but I think I got the hang of it. I can instantly see changes in Exult.
[10:50:35] <sbx> I had problems making a rock. My modeller doesn't have any "primitives" selection, only vertices and faces. Maybe I need to draw an object on graph paper first.
[10:59:28] <servus> What modeller?
[11:00:30] <sbx> Q2Modeller
[11:01:12] <servus> Err. Where'd you come up with that? Looking for a Linux or Windows modeller?
[11:02:01] <sbx> windows
[11:04:44] <sbx> http://www.quake2.com/modeling/tools.html
[11:05:05] <sbx> actually "Quake2 Modeller v0.83 Created by Phillip Martin"
[11:06:32] <servus> Mmm, fency.
[11:07:26] <servus> I hear good things about this: http://www.wings3d.com/
[11:08:40] <sbx> thanks
[11:09:20] <servus> Done with all my 28 fences!
[11:09:27] <servus> What next... what next..
[11:09:35] <servus> Maybe an... avatar, or a Iolo? :-)
[11:09:47] <sbx> Generic NPC Template #1
[11:10:02] <servus> Yeah they will all be pretty much the same model with different textures.
[11:10:19] <servus> Don't know if I'll bone it for animation or just do it by-vertex since there are so few frames...
[11:10:41] <servus> I really, really, want to give the Avatar a trash-can helmet ala Ultima 8 ;-)
[11:11:07] <sbx> I think Colourless made a 3D model of that guy for Pentagram.
[11:11:11] <sbx> or did I say that already
[11:11:52] <servus> Avatar?
[11:11:52] <sbx> yeah
[11:11:52] <servus> I have an Avatar from U8 model by the Man himself, Denis Loubet
[11:11:52] <sbx> bucket-head avatar
[11:11:52] <sbx> ooh
[11:11:52] <servus> It's kinda high-res though.
[11:11:52] <sbx> any similiarity to the Crusader model?
[11:11:52] <servus> Besides, it's just a human, and humans are easy.
[11:11:53] <servus> Probably, sbx.
[11:11:53] <sbx> the Silencer
[11:11:59] <sbx> who also has a helmet
[11:12:03] <servus> I love the Silencer! I have fantasies about being him :>
[11:12:17] <sbx> He's intense.
[11:12:30] <servus> He's the hero :>
[11:13:06] <sbx> yeah that's the point...
[11:13:16] <sbx> You should go play the game now.
[11:13:35] <sbx> No wait, work on Exult3D instead.
[11:15:34] <servus> I've actually got a half-finished game on Dosbox.
[11:15:40] <servus> And the original CDs :>
[11:16:58] <servus> Hmm, made 55 models so far.
[11:17:23] <sbx> Out of?
[11:17:27] <sbx> how many total
[11:17:51] <sbx> minimum
[11:18:17] <servus> Out of roughly 1,500 shape-frames in the game? :-)
[11:18:31] <servus> I'm not actually sure what you're asking.
[11:18:41] <sbx> How many do you want replacements for?
[11:19:14] <servus> Everything but the walls ;-)
[11:19:36] <servus> Either my cat is licking my toes, or a deranged lunatic that just killed my cat and is hiding under the desk.
[11:19:54] * servus eeps
[11:20:18] <servus> The Big Things right now are all foliage and NPCs.
[11:20:38] <servus> That accounts for about 100 models, not counting animations of the same model.
[11:24:39] <sbx> Yeah do NPCs or statues next.
[11:24:51] <servus> NPCs will become statues somehow, I reckon... ;-)
[11:25:17] <servus> Want an in-game fence shot? I know these screenshots are getting to be of less and less exciting material... *G*
[11:25:38] <sbx> sure, as long as its full of fence
[11:25:44] <sbx> chock full of fence, that is
[11:25:59] <sbx> The current NPCs are an obstacle to screenshots looking really good.
[11:26:26] <servus> It is
[11:29:20] <servus> http://24.205.120.21:81/images/screenshots/Exult3d-25.jpg things will look less flat after I put lighting in.
[11:33:48] <servus> OK, got a good(OK for the target)-looking human at 570 triangles.
[11:34:00] <servus> Now to whip up some Avatar textures!
[11:36:12] <sbx> um
[11:36:14] <sbx> that was fast
[11:36:24] <sbx> Where did you get it?
[11:37:13] <servus> I made it.
[11:37:16] <servus> I work on several things at once.
[11:37:50] <servus> Actually I made it several months ago for something else :-p
[11:38:17] <sbx> this picture isnt downloading
[11:38:25] <sbx> HTTP request sent, waiting for response...
[11:41:11] <servus> Keep trying?
[11:44:05] <sbx> Will do!
[11:46:06] <servus> http://madness.sf.net/files/Exult3d-25.jpg
[11:49:26] <sbx> Resolving madness.sourceforge.net...
[11:49:44] <sbx> HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
[11:50:14] <Colourless> http://24.205.120.21:81/images/screenshots/Exult3d-25.jpg << worked find for me
[11:50:42] <Colourless> http://madness.sourceforge.net/files/Exult3d-25.jpg << this too
[11:50:59] <sbx> the second one works fine for me
[11:51:38] <sbx> oh I like fences too :)
[11:59:39] <servus> Same screenshot. Not sure when I'll get vertex lighting in. It shouldn't be difficult buy I don't want to do it until I create a sky system so that there's a sun and thus a direction for light to come from, etc.
[12:03:52] <sbx> So you'll have someplace to sail into the sunset towards.
[12:06:28] <servus> Boats don't look right yet:-)
[12:15:42] <sbx> Madness! a kind of game
[12:15:45] <sbx> Is that a real game?
[12:16:20] <sbx> its the marble madness screenshots
[12:16:38] <sbx> well the first one anyway
[12:19:28] <servus> It's one of mine, yes.
[12:20:09] <servus> 0% activity :-)
[12:20:28] <sbx> So I won't get to play it soon.
[12:20:38] <sbx> It will have a real goal and be completable?
[12:20:46] <servus> Well it's playable, for what it's worth, just not fun because there are no goals :-)
[12:20:54] <servus> So really it's just a terrain/graphics/physics engine
[12:21:18] <servus> Should I make an Ultima 9-ish avatar? :-)
[12:22:35] <sbx> Didn't he have a stupid grin on his face?
[12:22:39] <sbx> all the time
[12:23:33] <servus> Well the texture won't be that high-res, and no, I don't think so.
[12:25:48] <sbx> I must be thinking of early screenshots.
[12:26:01] <sbx> I didn't play U9.
[12:27:02] <sbx> So I couldn't say.
[12:27:38] <sbx> http://members.cox.net/~sbx/gargoyles.mp3
[12:35:43] <servus> Yes I played the game
[12:36:04] <servus> Oxygen loss to his brain while in the Lurker's Domain, I reckon
[12:36:41] <sbx> He thought he was a Titan or something, but completely forgot how to use his powers.
[12:39:34] <servus> He WAS a Titan! Still is, I bet. The Avatar in Ultima 9 was replaced by an imposter from Canada that fell through a moongate that the Time Lord accidentally dropped while going through a Burger King drivethrough.
[12:39:45] <servus> Obviously.
[12:41:08] <servus> Ah! I think an Ultima 5 avatar is in order.
[12:41:18] <sbx> heh
[12:41:20] <sbx> Why Ultima 5?
[12:41:43] <servus> I like how he looks on that cover.
[12:43:19] <sbx> That's what I thought.
[12:43:20] <servus> http://www.sircabirus.com/ultima5/images/u5boxl.jpg
[12:43:36] <servus> Oh, and I'm giving the Avatar a backpack, for Pete's sake ;-)
[12:44:18] <sbx> Oh, I was thinking of the U4 Avatar. With glowingness.
[12:44:38] <servus> Now to draw Avatarness and listen to Talk Talk
[12:45:38] <sbx> ok
[12:45:52] <sbx> The password is DAWN.
[12:47:20] <servus> Huh?
[12:49:23] <sbx> Any respectable U5 avatar knows that.
[12:50:49] <servus> Didn't beat it
[12:51:17] <sbx> I don't expect you could without the password.
[12:51:34] <servus> Guess I'm disrespectable.
[12:51:48] <sbx> You've been spending too much time with Sir Dupre.
[12:52:21] <sbx> Does the U5 avatar mean you don't have to make hair.
[12:53:18] <servus> Hmm, I just finished drawing the back of the chain coif, actually, but I guess everyone expects that flowing Avatar mane, huh?
[12:53:27] <servus> Maybe I should keep the lion's mane
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[13:05:52] <servus> Meaty avatar leg greets you, stevenh
[13:08:26] <shazza> :p
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[13:10:29] <servus> Is that virtuous, avatar?
[13:10:48] <servus> OK Guys: Flaxen waxen long beautiful hair -- or not?
[13:12:50] <Esbee-Eks> Ideally it should match the 2D Avatar and portrait. Remember when you change Sex (and Color in SI) the Avatar shape changes appropriately.
[13:13:18] <Esbee-Eks> So yes.
[13:15:36] <servus> There is a female avatar, but I didn't see a non-white one (at least in BG, which is what I'm working on...)
[13:15:44] <servus> Oh well, very little skin shows.
[13:19:36] <Esbee-Eks> With helmet head you just don't know if it's a male or female.
[13:21:27] <servus> I kinda want those flowing locks o' gold too though
[13:21:49] <servus> I'll just make a few different skins/heads
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[13:27:48] <servus> Avatar torso done.
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[13:35:36] <Fl00der> hello
[13:36:40] <Esbee-Eks> hello there
[13:49:18] <servus> I do have to say that "Ultima X" sure does *look* pretty
[13:49:43] <Fl00der> and I have to say that it's cancelled
[13:51:13] <servus> It is?
[13:51:17] <servus> It's not in Britannia or Sosaria.
[13:51:24] <Fl00der> yes, it's cancelled
[13:53:01] * servus hmms at http://playtr.com
[13:53:10] <servus> The real "next Ultima MMORPG"?
[13:53:54] <Fl00der> what there is that makes it Ultima?
[13:54:04] <Fl00der> Avatar? Runes? Moongates?
[13:54:18] <Fl00der> well I know that Richard garriott is making that project
[13:54:43] <Fl00der> but I can't see anything Ultima in it
[13:58:45] <Esbee-Eks> It's called Ultima?
[13:59:03] <Esbee-Eks> oh
[13:59:06] <Esbee-Eks> or is that Tabula Rasa
[13:59:32] <servus> Well, I'm hoping Richard Garriot is enough to make it ultima[te] something or other; I'm interested.
[14:01:43] <Fl00der> sounds interesting
[14:12:14] <servus> I like the Avatar's face so far, but his hair looks like some ridiculous goldilocks
[14:12:28] <Fl00der> :)
[14:12:53] <Fl00der> without yellow hair avatar would be nothing, think what he could look if he were Bald
[14:13:30] <Esbee-Eks> and saying this http://members.cox.net/~sbx/gargoyles.mp3
[14:13:59] <servus> I might just use Fabio's face.
[14:14:47] <servus> In fact, Fabio is PERFECT
[14:15:00] <Fl00der> do you have a screenshot for that to show?
[14:16:06] <servus> Of Fabio?
[14:16:21] <Fl00der> yes
[14:16:36] <servus> http://www.peta.org/feat/fabio/fabio.jpg
[14:16:39] <Fl00der> in fact, who in the world is fabio? :)
[14:16:41] <servus> is that avatar or what
[14:16:46] <servus> He does butter commercials
[14:16:56] <Fl00der> hehe, looks like avatar so much :)'
[14:17:11] <servus> See! What do you think? I think... we've found our avatar!
[14:17:47] <Fl00der> yep, it's perfect, just you could change hair colour to yellow like old avatar had
[14:17:59] <servus> Oh!!
[14:18:12] <Fl00der> but if it's too hard, it's nice anyway
[14:18:13] <servus> http://www.sergioleone.net/00rich/fabio.jpg
[14:18:15] <Esbee-Eks> I think Kevin Sorbo would be more manly. But perhaps Fabio is more accurate for blondie Avatar.
[14:18:19] <servus> Just dye his roots and it's PERFECT!!!!!!
[14:18:24] <Fl00der> oooooh!
[14:18:28] <Fl00der> it's PERFECT!
[14:18:32] <Fl00der> nice job servus
[14:18:39] <servus> Thank Fabio's parents!
[14:18:43] <Fl00der> hehe
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[14:18:55] <Esbee-Eks> ok ok
[14:18:57] <servus> Ugh, it's too early in the morning for suicidal tendencies
[14:19:00] <Esbee-Eks> That's enough pictures of Fabio.
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[14:19:09] <Fl00der> servus: it's 16.19 PM :)
[14:19:21] <Esbee-Eks> no it's 8:19AM
[14:19:23] <Fl00der> :P
[14:19:30] <servus> 6:19 AM
[14:19:35] <servus> We all know who to cast in the new Ultima movie
[14:19:39] <servus> Call Garriot!
[14:20:08] <Esbee-Eks> And I really can imagine a Fabio Avatar asking who the gargoyles are.
[14:20:15] <Esbee-Eks> with his fabio-accent
[14:20:49] <Fl00der> :)
[14:20:54] <servus> Who is our African-American and M/F avatars?
[14:20:57] <Esbee-Eks> "Answer me now not later because I am Fabio."
[14:20:58] <Esbee-Eks> sorry
[14:21:13] <servus> Morgan Freeman? :>
[14:21:17] <Esbee-Eks> too old
[14:21:19] <servus> Oh! T'ealc!
[14:21:24] <servus> T'ealc from Stargate is perfect.
[14:21:24] <Esbee-Eks> Christopher Judge
[14:21:27] <servus> Yeah.
[14:21:33] <servus> Now both women...
[14:21:37] <Esbee-Eks> yeah I guess
[14:21:41] <Esbee-Eks> He's a little bald.
[14:21:50] <servus> He's not in the new seasons
[14:21:53] <Esbee-Eks> really?
[14:21:55] <servus> Demi Moore is G.I. Avatar
[14:21:58] <Esbee-Eks> I'm behind 2 seasons.
[14:21:58] <servus> Yeah, he's got an afro
[14:22:02] <Esbee-Eks> lol
[14:22:11] <servus> Me too, but according to the sci-fi channel website...
[14:22:18] <servus> He says his scalp got irritated from daily shavings
[14:22:28] <servus> OK, Demi Moore and...
[14:22:34] <servus> Just not halle berre =-/
[14:23:01] <Esbee-Eks> Oh my god I just about had a heart attack. *stops picturing Tealc with a giant afro*
[14:23:27] <servus> I do not think so, Daniel Jackson
[14:23:33] <Esbee-Eks> stop it
[14:23:41] <servus> What is WITH Daniel Jackson? He has died more than anyone I know of!
[14:23:41] <Esbee-Eks> dammit there goes a rib :p
[14:23:44] <servus> :PP
[14:24:02] <Esbee-Eks> He's only died once to me.
[14:24:02] <servus> Remember the Groundhog Day episode where T'ealc takes pottery classes with Macguyver?
[14:24:11] <servus> He dies every other episode in the first season
[14:24:11] <Esbee-Eks> Well unless you count when he dies as an ascended.
[14:24:15] <servus> Nah
[14:24:18] <servus> He dies 6 times in the first season
[14:24:24] <servus> Or something. It's absurd
[14:24:24] <Esbee-Eks> ...
[14:24:29] <Esbee-Eks> I remember golfing into the Stargate.
[14:24:39] <Fl00der> hehe
[14:24:41] <servus> He gets shot, some rocks fall on him, he gets squished... shot again... shot...
[14:24:52] <Fl00der> that was awesome episode
[14:24:53] <servus> He's like the guys you don't recognize on Star Trek's away missions
[14:25:04] <servus> Best episode of ANY show is the Groundhog day episode
[14:25:35] <servus> Actually no, X-Files' Groundhog day was their second-best... the first best was "The Meaning Of Truth", where everyone tells a different story and Mulder eats 15 sweet potato pies.
[14:25:46] <Esbee-Eks> what
[14:25:51] <Esbee-Eks> Is that the one with that author?
[14:26:02] <Esbee-Eks> And Scully is interviewing him?
[14:26:30] <servus> Fabio's roots have been dyed.
[14:26:35] <Esbee-Eks> ?
[14:26:42] <servus> No, everyone gets interviewd.
[14:26:46] <Esbee-Eks> ?
[14:26:52] <servus> Best. Episode. Ever.
[14:26:59] <Esbee-Eks> And there is a giant red alien that scares away a grey?
[14:27:08] <servus> Someone recounts Scully as "having red hair... but a little TOO red, if you know what I mean"
[14:27:38] <Esbee-Eks> I don't remember it well enough.
[14:27:42] <servus> Then someone recalls Mulder seeing an alien corpse... and it flashes back to mulder seeing it for the first time, his eyes go wide like saucers and he goes WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT! in a really high pitched voice. It's the funniest episode ever.
[14:28:05] <Esbee-Eks> I like the one where Mulder switches places with an Area 51 agent.
[14:29:04] <Esbee-Eks> Did you realize that Mulder has a serious pornography addiction?
[14:29:26] <Esbee-Eks> I didn't know how many references there were in the entire series until I read a list. :)
[14:29:57] <Esbee-Eks> That or he just really needs a girlfriend bad.
[14:30:57] <servus> He wants Scully.
[14:31:08] <servus> Everyone does, for that matter, though.
[14:31:16] <servus> Except for Fabio, because Fabio want know more about gargoyle
[14:31:32] <servus> I like his little smirk here
[14:31:35] <servus> It's ab-fab
[14:31:39] <Esbee-Eks> I'm sure he does..
[14:32:07] <Esbee-Eks> Can't we get a blonde for the female avatar then?
[14:32:12] <Esbee-Eks> Perhaps Fabio again?
[14:32:43] <servus> Hmm, femalevator WOULD be pretty butch...
[14:32:53] <servus> Just smooth out the Fab's manly wrinkles?
[14:33:03] <servus> Or just keep it exactly the same :))
[14:34:46] <servus> The second episode that Duchovny wrote started with Scully getting naked
[14:35:03] <Esbee-Eks> Scully naked?
[14:35:14] <Esbee-Eks> I don't know any episodes he wrote.
[14:35:19] <servus> It's also the episode where he professed his undying love for partially hydrogenated vegan icecream substitute flavourpops!
[14:36:00] <Esbee-Eks> flavourpops?
[14:36:27] <Esbee-Eks> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/injoke/xfnlists.html
[14:36:51] <servus> Aren't you guys afraid of getting "programmer art" out of me?
[14:38:45] <Esbee-Eks> No your models are great.
[14:40:57] <servus> You mean fabio? We all know he's a great model
[14:41:45] <Esbee-Eks> No the Exult3D models. :)
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[14:42:56] <Esbee-Eks> hi Baastuul
[14:43:34] <Fl00der> hi baastuul
[14:43:54] <Baastuul> Hallo!
[14:46:25] <servus> The fabinator strikes again
[14:46:41] <servus> Can we replace all instances of 'Avatar' in the usecode with 'Fabio'?
[14:46:58] <servus> Oh, if I didn't believe my own eyes, after 200 years Fabio has returned to save us all!
[14:47:06] <servus> Look boy, it's Fabio!
[14:48:57] <Esbee-Eks> That's disturbing.
[14:49:39] <servus> Should the Avatar have a scabbard/hilt?
[14:49:54] <servus> And bared hands/gloved hands?
[14:49:59] <Baastuul> Sure.
[14:52:22] <Colourless> why dont you detrimine the avatars appearance by what he is equpied with
[14:58:59] <servus> Ze avatar texture is done.
[14:59:13] <servus> Colourless, that's a wholeeeeeeeee lotta work. It's doable, but we should keep it simple for now :)
[14:59:26] <servus> Unless you wanna help me draw paperdoll art :>
[15:00:27] <servus> Besides, now you can choose from Fabio Avatar, T'Ealc Avatar, G.I. Jane Avatar, or Charlie's Angels Avatar!
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[16:11:42] <EsBee-Eks> hehe
[16:11:49] <Fl00der> hello again
[16:11:55] <EsBee-Eks> hello
[16:12:11] <EsBee-Eks> I just noticed I had left an xterm open in the background.
[16:12:14] <EsBee-Eks> --09:06:53-- http://24.205.120.21:81/images/screenshots/Exult3d-25.jpg
[16:12:14] <EsBee-Eks> (try:20) => `Exult3d-25.jpg'
[16:12:14] <EsBee-Eks> Connecting to 24.205.120.21:81... failed: Network is unreachable.
[16:12:14] <EsBee-Eks> Giving up.
[16:13:15] <EsBee-Eks> next time I will set infinite retries
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[19:41:40] <servus> I live up to Fl00der's name.
[19:42:25] <servus> I bet my power's going to go out... and I'm almost certain that that will annoy me.
[19:51:06] <servus> Makin' avatars. Makin' avatars. Ohm eh oh ohm in sanct, makin' avatars!
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[21:02:38] <servus> There's a look at the new avatar on the phorum
[21:14:51] <Fl00der> huh? who called me?
[21:15:18] <Fl00der> servus: what do you mean by that you live up to my name?
[21:19:52] <Fl00der> hmm
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[21:49:15] <Fisu> Exult keeps an official zaurus .ipk for exult. Nowdays OZ has upgraded to newer GCC version and the .ipk does not work. Any change that in the future Exult team will provide .ipk for the current GCC version the #Openzaurus uses?
[21:50:43] <wjp> you should ask on the mailing list or on the forum
[21:51:14] <wjp> (since artaxerxes isn't here)
[21:51:19] <Fisu> wjp: true. I guess I was hoping the dev supporting the package would be here
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