#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 7 Oct 2003 (GMT)

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[02:05:28] <servus> Hurray for matrices.
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[05:47:35] <Colourless> whoa
[05:55:53] <SB-X> whee
[05:55:57] <SB-X> hi Colourless
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[07:28:03] <servus> Yay, radiosity!
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[12:22:29] <Fingolfin> hi
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[13:00:09] <Colourless> hi
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[13:34:52] <Aip> hi
[13:37:01] <armav> hello
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[13:53:18] <Dominus> hey ho
[13:53:20] <Dominus> Colourless: where have you been?
[13:53:24] <Colourless> hi
[13:53:36] <Colourless> nowhere
[13:53:42] <Colourless> just not here
[13:53:57] <Dominus> Colourless has been nowhere....
[13:54:53] <Dominus> seem like we are still not ready for beta3. The chest of the avatars belongings disappears
[13:55:08] <Dominus> when you return from the mountains of freedom
[13:55:10] * DarkeZzz labels a box 'somewhere' and puts Colourless in it. There we go, now that's all nicely sorted.
[13:56:47] <Colourless> oh yay
[13:57:21] <Dominus> I gues we now have a colourless somewhere boxed
[13:57:25] <Colourless> you did put me somewhere, you put me in somewhere... not that it would make much sense anywhere but here
[13:57:47] <Colourless> i don't care. beta3 needs releasing regardless
[13:57:52] <Colourless> beta2 has far worse problems
[13:58:15] <Colourless> cvs is already updated anyway
[13:58:21] <Dominus> but that is asking for a "fast" beta4 release then...
[13:58:32] <Dominus> I don't care much, though
[14:00:00] * DarkeZzz documents Colourless' boxes location. Now Colourless is in somewhere well known (all be it, in a box *grin*).
[14:00:59] <Colourless> well known... i don't think so. i would think well known would require substantially more than 10 people to know
[14:04:08] * DarkeZzz slips the documentation in the bottom of a filing cabinet, in a disused lavatory, with a sign on the door saying, "Beware of the Leopard". There. It's *obvious*, *everyone* should now know where Colourless is.
[14:04:52] <Colourless> hmm... I don't think Jammet would be impressed
[14:04:54] * Coren_ wavies.
[14:06:54] <DarkeZzz> What? He's a fearsome leopard cub! Why wouldn't he be proud of a sign saying "Beware the Leopard"? Other then if we locked him in the lavatory, that is.
[14:06:56] * DarkeZzz wavies back.
[14:08:38] <Colourless> i'm taking about the sign being deceptive... it issues a warning about a leopard... but it's only a ruse to get people to look at the instructions to find me
[14:11:28] * DarkeZzz tries to imagine a situation, where someone trying to find a leopard, would somehow come to the conclusion it must be in the bottom drawer, of a file cabinet, in a disused lavatory. The sign not withstanding, that guy must be really loco. *grin*
[14:12:27] * Colourless imagines that the only such person to do such a thing would be DarkeZzz, and he would even forget that he wrote the sign
[14:12:56] <DarkeZzz> Umm... yeah, that does sound like me...
[14:13:08] * DarkeZzz denies it all! All of it!
[14:13:29] <Colourless> so obviously your plan is ultimately flawed
[14:13:36] <Colourless> try again
[14:14:24] * DarkeZzz ponders.
[14:15:48] * DarkeZzz secretly encodes the instructions to the dragon's location in an article in Penthouse. After all, everyone reads such magazine just for the articles, right? *innocentlook*
[14:17:14] <Colourless> hmm... encoding... i'm sure i'd get consiparcy theorists after me... but i don't know if i want that
[14:18:11] <Coren_> Why? Tin foil hats are sooo cute!
[14:18:25] * DarkeZzz now has visions of minature black helicopters swarming Colourless like flies. *grin*
[14:18:42] <Colourless> let them try.... i can fly too
[14:21:25] <Colourless> maybe they would attempt to recruit me into their secret agency... i'm sure someone who is truely colourless like myself could be a most useful asset
[14:22:57] <DarkeZzz> Nah. You're too transparent. Everyone will see right through you. *cough*
[14:23:07] <Colourless> too true
[14:23:28] <Colourless> :-)
[14:24:41] <Colourless> and of course, such a plan would ultimately lead to the same problem... people still wouldn't know where i was if they did recruit me...
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[14:24:44] <wjp> wb Ryan :-)
[14:25:01] <Coren_> OH, no! Not Willem!
[14:25:03] <Colourless> where I was would have to still remain secret... so again that plan would be ultimately flawed... try again :-)
[14:25:07] <wjp> Colourless: release: yes, the sooner the better :-)
[14:25:07] <Colourless> hi wjp
[14:25:07] * Coren_ pounces.
[14:25:09] <DarkeZzz> Well, they'd know you were somewhere anyway. *grin*
[14:25:35] <DarkeZzz> 'ello, 'ello, 'ello.
[14:26:33] <wjp> hi Coren_, DarkeZzz
[14:26:34] <Colourless> hmm... true... but would it be 'well known' i wouldn't think so. But it would be a thing of semantics over what is the meaning of well known is. As i've already said, requires more than 10 people
[14:27:21] <wjp> DarkeZzz: is that lavatory, beware of the leopard thingie a hitchhiker's guide reference? *thinks hard*
[14:27:22] <DarkeZzz> Don't we have 11 now? Does that count?
[14:27:32] <DarkeZzz> wjp: Yes. *grin*
[14:27:43] <wjp> at the start? the plans for the demolition?
[14:27:57] <DarkeZzz> wjp: Yup.
[14:28:18] <wjp> good, so I won't have to re-read THHGTTG again for a while yet :-)
[14:28:45] <Colourless> ok... which book?
[14:28:54] <DarkeZzz> Relates to the comment that there was plenty off opportunity for people to object, since the plans were shown in an obviously accessable, public place. *grin*
[14:28:58] <DarkeZzz> The first.
[14:29:30] <Colourless> hmm, ok... i can't recall it... but it's been more than a while since i last read them
[14:29:58] <wjp> where were the second plans displayed again? (those for the demolition of earth)
[14:30:13] <DarkeZzz> http://www.realhhg.com/hhgleop.php
[14:30:41] <DarkeZzz> Demolition of Mr Dent's house it was. The demolition of the Earth came later, or simultaneous as it were. *grin*
[14:33:12] <DarkeZzz> It's actually quite a commonly quoted phrase.
[14:34:53] <wjp> Colourless: is everything ready for a windows release?
[14:35:17] <wjp> (e.g., did I catch all the version numbers? :-) )
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[14:37:49] <armav> what's new in the newest release?
[14:37:51] <Colourless> wjp: it would appear everything is fine
[14:38:27] <armav> and how do you pronounce "THHGTTG"?
[14:39:11] <DarkeZzz> H2G2.
[14:39:31] <DarkeZzz> Either that, or you unexpand the acronym. *grin*
[14:40:47] <armav> it'd be cool if exult were an acronym
[14:40:56] <Colourless> but... it is :-)
[14:41:01] <Colourless> of sorts
[14:41:07] <armav> not a real acronym
[14:42:04] <armav> i hope they decide not to make that h2g2 movie after all
[14:42:25] <Colourless> pentagram has some 'great' acronyms, doesn't it darke :-)
[14:42:55] <Colourless> best left unsaid here... maybe
[14:43:24] <armav> i've been reading the frozen thread, and i think you should get permission from ea
[14:43:44] <armav> if an ultima community website can get it, so can you :)
[14:43:57] <Colourless> i've been trying to develop a machine so it could remove all memory of the frozen thread from my mind
[14:44:01] <Colourless> so far i have failed
[14:44:26] <armav> just delete the thread and you'll soon forget about it
[14:44:36] <DarkeZzz> What frozen thread? (Yes that question was rhetorical, no, I don't want to know. *grin*)
[14:46:55] <Dominus> ok, I just played through the mountains of freedom and could NOT make the chest disappear, so release it
[14:47:19] <Dominus> not that this is any indication that the chest does not actually disappear on users...
[14:48:08] <Dominus> hi wjp, armav, btw
[14:49:37] <armav> how many millions would exult have cost to develop commercially by now?
[14:50:20] <Dominus> probably way too much :-)
[14:50:52] <Dominus> and not counting that we didn't actually add a lot of content
[14:50:57] <armav> i have an idea for your next april fool's day joke
[14:51:07] <armav> "Exult source code leaked!!!!!!"
[14:51:12] <Dominus> he he
[14:51:17] <Colourless> my guess... 5 million
[14:52:01] <Dominus> but then commercially we would have been finished a year ago and had only released some smaller patches and the team would have disbanded already :-)
[14:52:48] <Colourless> actually if it were a commercial release for EA I'm sure it would have been done in a year or 2, since we would have had access to the original sources
[14:53:17] <Colourless> and then it would have only cost a few hundred thousand $'s
[14:53:23] <armav> yeah, no reverse engineering
[14:53:38] <DarkeZzz> So who do we blame for it? Colourless? Dominus? Kirben? wjp? ("Through something approaching divine intervention, someone mentioned to hack wjp's email client and get it to execute a script that committed his local copy of the exult cvs-tree. This activity may have cost the exult-team millions of dollars in lost... err... revinue.")
[14:53:52] <Dominus> wjp: could you look at that thread http://exult.sourceforge.net/forum/read.php?f=1&i=16546&t=16546 and give here (?) some more pointers in doing art for exult?
[14:54:17] <DarkeZzz> (Hey! If the RIAA/BSA can overstate like that, so can we!)
[14:54:36] <Colourless> i know... Exult Source code leaked... anonymous access to sourceforge blamed
[14:54:47] <Dominus> he he
[14:55:21] <Colourless> apparently, indications are someone used the hacker program 'cvs' to log into sourceforge and managed to download the complete Exult source code
[14:55:56] <Colourless> reports are coming in from other projects that they too might have been similarly compromized
[14:56:09] <Dominus> and we need the help of our community to find the guity party
[14:56:20] <DarkeZzz> (or parties!)
[14:57:10] <armav> the hackers used a keylogger to capture the password ("")
[14:57:13] <Colourless> hell, we could do it now, and blame the beta3 release on it :-)
[14:57:15] <Dominus> suspects are a gang of four starnge guys with the initial A. I. D. S.
[14:57:22] <DarkeZzz> There is distinct evidence that more then one person was involved in the crime. Given how technically difficult it must have been to setup and execute. There's also speculation that inside (sourceforge.net) staff were on the job.
[14:58:00] <DarkeZzz> "beta3 release of exult dealayed due to stolen source"
[14:58:02] <Colourless> s/blame the/blame the delay of the/
[14:58:12] <Colourless> yes exactly :-)
[14:58:36] <Dominus> blame AIDS
[15:02:18] <wjp> lol
[15:10:58] <wjp> time to go; I'll bbl
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[15:17:40] <armav> is it just me or is sourceforge kindof slow today?
[15:18:32] <Dominus> what aspects of sf?
[15:18:59] <armav> the project pages (bug tracker, feature req's, etc.)
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[15:20:08] <Dominus> haven'T been on those today, so I don't know (and my bandwidth is taxed by sth else so I wouldn't know anyway)
[15:21:00] * Cless|Away is in same situation as Dominus
[15:24:26] <Coren_> Woot! I managed to increase the performance of lighting in my new engine to over 80k lights.planes/seconds!
[15:25:16] <armav> Coren_: what kind of computer do you have?
[15:25:30] <Dominus> where are my sunglasses? :-)
[15:25:36] <armav> i have a k6/2-350 :)
[15:28:26] <Coren_> armav: Well, granted, I have a bit bigger. p4/1.6. But still.
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[15:30:18] <William|away> hoihoi
[15:30:21] --- William|away is now known as William
[15:30:57] <armav> what did you do to increase performance?
[15:31:15] <Dominus> hi
[15:31:48] <Coren_> Actually, trivial inlining after I did a profile run was enough. There's still room for improvement, but it's now "good enough" to leave alone and work on the rest.
[15:33:52] <William> this is cool i can read the logs while i'm chatting! ... guess that isn't a new thing for you though :D
[15:34:33] <Coren_> Also, I'm now precalculating some projections of portals.
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[15:35:53] <Dominus> what's with all those speedplanet.nl people here? :-)
[15:36:08] <William> lol
[15:36:32] <wjp> there's a dot between speed and planet, btw :-)
[15:37:03] <Cless|Away> william and willem
[15:38:41] <wjp> yes... it is just a bit suspicious, isn't it? *glares at William* ;-)
[15:39:31] <William> we could be identical... or something... secret clones of the government perhaps?
[15:40:12] <Dominus> btw, what's up with your government atm?
[15:40:42] <Dominus> which parties are in charge?
[15:40:45] <William> atm?
[15:40:48] <wjp> is there something up with our goverment?
[15:40:54] <Dominus> no no
[15:40:55] <wjp> s/rm/rnm/
[15:41:15] <William> party in charge.... christian democrats... or m i wrong?
[15:41:17] <wjp> which parties... umm... well... something like... uh... CDA and VVD?
[15:41:43] <Dominus> I was jsut wondering, the last time I haerd sth was that that coaltion with that party of that murdered guy went sour.
[15:41:53] <wjp> oh, yes, very sour :-)
[15:42:07] <William> what are you smiling? ...
[15:42:22] <wjp> oh, it was kind of a funny show at times :-)
[15:42:25] <Dominus> were there re-elections or a minority-government now?
[15:42:29] <wjp> re-elections
[15:43:08] <William> and then the christian democrats (cda) and the conservatives (vvd) made a new coalition
[15:43:44] <Dominus> funny because I didn't hear anything about *those* elections (contrary to the one before that)
[15:44:00] <William> yea they weren't very spectaculair
[15:45:18] <wjp> the formation process afterwards had some semi-interesting 'plot twists'
[15:45:33] <Dominus> so, what did you vote for? willem and william? :-) (doe^sn't expect an answer :-))
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[15:46:12] <wjp> D66 (mainly because of their standpoints on the eduction system)
[15:46:27] <Dominus> what is D66?
[15:46:56] <William> democrats '66
[15:47:10] <wjp> somewhere between left and right, somewhat pragmatic
[15:47:22] <Dominus> I see
[15:47:31] <William> i didn't vote
[15:47:40] <armav> how are they going to change the education system?
[15:48:01] <wjp> budget cuts, mainly :-)
[15:48:11] <wjp> or :-(, really
[15:48:24] <armav> you voted for them because they're going to cut the budget?
[15:48:32] <wjp> no, because they were opposed to that
[15:48:46] <William> the ones that are here now are doing budget cuts
[15:48:55] <William> d66 didn't win
[15:49:03] <armav> :(
[15:49:22] <William> i don't care... i didn't vote
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[15:49:54] <Dominus> in Austria the nice gov does a lot of budget cuts in the educational system as well
[15:50:18] <Dominus> the universities are not happy
[15:50:33] <William> i expected that :)
[15:50:37] <Cless|busy> i think you mean 'Australia' *snicker*
[15:50:52] <Dominus> :-)
[15:50:55] <Coren_> I like our politicians up here in Canada. They talk a great deal, but do strictly nothing in the long run for the most part. Ergo, they cause little to no damage. :-)
[15:50:57] <Dominus> so it's everywhere
[15:51:05] <wjp> Coren_: hehe :-)
[15:51:06] <William> lol
[15:51:42] <William> i want a few of them... at least they won't introduce new systems like the second fase
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[15:53:13] <wjp> that's a system in which high school students have to study more by themselves, and less in lectures by teachers
[15:53:16] <wjp> btw :-)
[15:53:46] <Dominus> aha
[15:53:55] <wjp> the end result is that the current generation of graduating high school students has trouble doing even the most basic mathematical manipulations
[15:54:16] <William|Homework> that would be me... :)
[15:54:19] <Dominus> ooh, nicely done
[15:54:24] <wjp> I mean, solving something like "5 + 2x = x" results in comments like: "But there's an x on both sides of the =! How does that work?"
[15:54:44] <wjp> William|Homework: nothing personal, just generally speaking :-)
[15:54:46] <William|Homework> yeah tell me how does that work?? >:)
[15:54:54] <William|Homework> lol
[15:54:59] <Dominus> he he
[15:55:57] <William|Homework> i asked my teacher he just said: "you should be somewhere else"
[15:56:12] <armav> i think math should be an optional subject
[15:56:19] <Dominus> do you?
[15:56:24] <wjp> armav: you want to be kicked? :-)
[15:56:27] <armav> many people would choose not to learn math, and the mathematicians would become gods
[15:56:33] <William|Homework> lol
[15:56:36] <wjp> ok, that's an interesting point :-)
[15:56:44] <Dominus> okay, that's a reason
[15:56:49] <armav> :)
[15:56:51] <wjp> I could probably get used to being a god ;-)
[15:57:17] <armav> oh great deity, please solve this equation for us!
[15:57:23] <Dominus> or mmathematicians would end up in the circus-freak-show :-)
[15:57:26] <wjp> it is... Forty-Two!
[15:57:32] <William|Homework> maths.. i've done a maths test yesterday
[15:57:41] <wjp> I can multiple two numbers under ten, without a calculator!
[15:58:09] <wjp> (8 times 8 = 56, another real-world example :-) )
[15:58:42] <William|Homework> wow you are so smart great deity! let us reward your kindness to our people! now we can make a wardrobe ;)
[15:59:11] <armav> the funny thing it actally was like that in the dark ages
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[15:59:22] <William|Homework> cool... i'm going to make a time-machine
[15:59:30] <William|Homework> oops.. tried that before.. didn't work ;)
[15:59:32] <Dominus> let's make sure he doesn't run away...
[15:59:37] <Dominus> cut his feet off
[15:59:44] <armav> he can add 3-digit numbers... burn him, he's a witch!
[15:59:48] <William|Homework> lol
[16:00:42] <Dominus> yeah he's an evil wizard, he's even doing a pentagram...
[16:00:42] <wjp> hehe :-)
[16:00:56] * wjp uh-ohs
[16:01:17] <Dominus> (interesting quotes right now :-))
[16:01:35] <wjp> maybe we should add some of those to our quotes file :-)
[16:02:04] <armav> isn't there a disclaimer in the ultima 8 manual that the game has nothing to do with satanism?
[16:02:06] <William|Homework> i did a test about exponential functions yesterday... isn't that cool?
[16:02:22] <wjp> the original U8 box was actually changed to one without a pentagram
[16:02:27] <William|Homework> well i guess there's a disclaimer in the american version of ultima 8 =D
[16:02:59] <wjp> wow, that's one step beyond adding and even multiplying, you really are super-smart :-)
[16:04:09] <Dominus> I would need to look that up (the disclaimer stuff, I mean)
[16:04:27] <William|Homework> i really should do homework so i'll step away from my comp for a while c u later everybody
[16:04:41] <armav> Dominus: do you have the american version of u8?
[16:04:45] <wjp> ok, good luck and see you later
[16:06:15] <Dominus> no, but the ultima collection and whatever version that EA classic was from...
[16:06:39] <Dominus> maybe we need a disclaimer on our homepage as well?
[16:07:11] <wjp> no, we don't :-)
[16:07:31] <wjp> although we did have someone walk into #pentagram once who said he was looking for something related to satanism
[16:07:50] <Dominus> not only once I think
[16:08:07] * Dominus points to the pentagram quote file
[16:09:05] <wjp> Darke in reponse to one of the inifinte typo corrections made by Colourless <- is that typo intentional?
[16:09:46] <wjp> quite a lot of typos in there
[16:10:31] <Dominus> I really like that quote:"pentagram's gaming stuff? damn, i was looking for satanism..."
[16:12:30] <wjp> hm, I think I'll fix some of the typos
[16:14:24] <wjp> sliperly slope? :-)
[16:24:50] <wjp> dinner, bbl
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[18:05:49] <Jammet> Mew =^_^=
[18:06:03] <wjp> hi
[18:20:06] <Jammet> Hej wjp =)
[18:20:19] * Jammet just wants to pounce, but then is getting a phone call, and pounces that thingy instead.
[18:54:55] --- Dominus|away is now known as Dominus
[19:15:10] <Dominus> tsk tsk, the things you do for your gf...
[19:15:48] <Dominus> I got about 10 GB of Betty Boop toons that fell off a truck....
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[19:33:40] <Dominus> http://www.btinternet.com/~david.st/b3ta/ utter madness
[19:36:06] <servus> Sweet JEBUS!
[19:36:13] <servus> That was catchy.
[19:37:56] <armav> omg
[19:39:11] <servus> Papan! Ja! Papan! Ja! I know what I'm getting played for MY wedding.
[19:40:42] <armav> or funeral
[19:45:13] <Dominus> and here comes the scary one
[19:45:14] <Dominus> http://www.rathergood.com/vid/
[19:50:10] <armav> that is strange
[19:51:43] <Dominus> but strangely enough quite interesting...
[20:05:06] <armav> http://www.boring3d.com/
[20:06:04] <wjp> http://www.theonion.com/3938/top_story.html
[20:06:12] <wjp> while we're posting links anyway :-)
[20:07:21] <Dominus> can't get yours, wjp
[20:09:31] <Dominus> now it loaded
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[20:51:19] <wjp> hm, kind of interesting, that telescope and attached dungeon
[20:51:32] <Dominus> yes, I'm just there
[20:52:02] <Dominus> that telescope shows you interesting things
[20:52:47] <wjp> the rest of cat/claw isle is quite interesting too, btw
[20:54:24] <Dominus> I like those nukes
[20:54:33] <wjp> nukes?
[20:55:00] <Dominus> 05cf,081d
[20:55:04] <Dominus> the nuke-kegs
[20:55:17] <wjp> there are actually stairs from cat isle going down to the dream world
[20:56:47] <Dominus> and what I hadnot seen before was that little island in the upper corner (wrap around)
[20:57:21] <Dominus> wow, nuke kegs make interesting throwing weapons
[21:04:18] <Dominus> do not tell this Pyro-X but nukes are the perfect weapon. they don't deplete (meaning if you equip one you can throw around explosions...)
[21:04:31] <wjp> bug?
[21:04:42] <Dominus> might be
[21:05:23] <Coren_> Oooo. I just "discovered" Plücker coordinates for 2-lines in 3-space! I smell a performance improvement coming!
[21:05:44] <armav> ?
[21:06:33] <armav> i read somewhere that quaternions can improve 3d performance, but i have no idea what they are
[21:07:44] <Dominus> wjp: where are those stairs to the dream realm?
[21:08:03] <Coren_> Quaternion are generalized 4-vectors in 3-space; they allow for homogenous coordinates easing rotations; at the cost of some other operations being made harder. They have their uses, but Eüler angles are just as efficient for the general case.
[21:08:50] <wjp> Dominus: don't remember :-)
[21:09:00] <Dominus> damn :-)
[21:09:11] <armav> Euler, not Eüler :)
[21:09:21] <Coren_> Basically, a quaternion is a vector [ x y z w ] describing the point [ x.w y.w z.w ] in euclidian 3-space.
[21:09:51] <wjp> isn't that x/w, y/w, z/w, generally?
[21:09:52] <armav> what's the .w do?
[21:10:11] <wjp> or is this different from homogenous coordinates?
[21:10:16] <wjp> or homegeneous?
[21:10:24] <wjp> whatever the english word for them is :-)
[21:10:34] <Coren_> wjp: No, that's OpenGL's tack on a quaternion. They make w'=1/w to avoid divisions in the code.
[21:11:13] <wjp> ah
[21:11:29] <Coren_> And my computational geometry book confirms 'Eüler'.
[21:12:33] <Dominus> ah found the stair
[21:13:21] <wjp> Is there such a bisonant in german?
[21:13:56] <wjp> although I doubt bisonant is the right english term for that...
[21:13:58] <armav> Coren_: this guy? http://www.bartleby.com/61/71/E0237100.html
[21:14:00] <armav> or someone else
[21:15:43] <Dark-Star> Eüler is definitely wrong, there's no "eü" anywhere in german language (at least none that I'm aware of)
[21:15:54] <wjp> Coren_: maybe your computational geometry book is suffering from "It's a German (well, Swiss) name, so it must have an umlaut somewhere"-syndrome? :-)
[21:16:12] <armav> Dark-Star: i just did a google search, and it appear that eüler is in fact a german name
[21:16:20] <Coren_> Wjp:: That rarely happens in french.
[21:16:33] <wjp> Coren_: good point :-)
[21:17:03] <Coren_> Well, roughly 50% of the google hits on 'Euler angle' returns hits with the umlaut, and the rest without. Apparently, nobody agrees on how the damn name is spelled.
[21:17:25] <Dominus> all those sites with Eüler seem to be english sites so it could still be an error
[21:17:26] <armav> there's an eüler here: http://www.comtumi.de/werbung-adressen.htm
[21:17:57] <Dominus> seems I have to give up
[21:18:21] <Dark-Star> armav: true
[21:18:30] <Coren_> Indeed, I read here a linguist say that 'This surname is typically spelled Eyler/Eüler'
[21:18:55] <wjp> hit number 4 on google? :-)
[21:19:47] <Coren_> wjp: That's where I saw it first, yes, then look up 'Eyler' to get confirmation.
[21:20:15] <Dark-Star> well, I've never seen the writing "Eüler" before, and I study Maths too. But it might be a swiss speciality, they have very strange words over there ;-)
[21:20:21] <Coren_> So I think this condurum has no solution-- apparently the surname may be of non-german origin.
[21:20:22] <armav> them foreign names sure is confusing
[21:20:43] <wjp> condurum?
[21:20:56] * wjp looks that up
[21:21:05] <armav> http://www.bartleby.com/61/17/C0611700.html
[21:21:20] <wjp> ah, conundrum
[21:21:47] <Coren_> Yes, I think packet loss ate my syllable. :-)
[21:22:02] <Dark-Star> ...and swapped the letters around? ;-)
[21:22:05] <Dominus> yesterday I scanned an american comic which played during WWII, phew the german language is sure strange :-)
[21:22:22] <Coren_> Dark-Star: Hey, IP does /not/ garantee ordering!
[21:22:29] <wjp> hey, packets aren't guaranteed to arrive in order :-)
[21:22:30] <armav> what's the name of the comic?
[21:22:32] <Dominus> the german language in that comic, I mean
[21:22:51] <Dominus> Sgt. Fury and his howling Commando (Marvel)
[21:22:57] <armav> "Achtung! dem teufeldundern! leiber Gott im himmel!"
[21:22:58] <wjp> Coren_: you should really increase your packet size a bit, btw ;-)
[21:23:04] <wjp> 1 byte packets are quite inefficient ;-)
[21:23:15] <Dominus> "Schweinehund"
[21:23:18] <armav> loool
[21:23:29] <Dark-Star> anyone played "Indiana Jones 4"? --> 'read lever' --> 'It says "hugendobbel"' ...
[21:23:32] <armav> "dumkopfer"
[21:23:44] <wjp> at least it _looks_ german :-)
[21:24:07] <Coren_> Hey, don't confuse me with all that german, I
[21:24:24] <Coren_> I'm trying to learn japanese lately. Only one new language at a time, please!
[21:24:26] <Dominus> "If der amerikaner svine do not kill you, I vill!"
[21:24:34] <armav> mission impossible (the old tv series) sometimes takes place in ficticious germam-speaking countries; all the signs have pseudo-german words on them (liberally sprinkled with umlauts)
[21:24:38] <Dark-Star> Coren_: watashi mo :-)
[21:25:11] <Coren_> Dark: Eeew! Roomaji!
[21:25:20] <wjp> nihongo wa sugoi, ne? :-)
[21:25:24] <Dominus> "der shtupid amerikaners - mitot veapons- dere coming at us!"
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[21:25:33] <Dark-Star> wjp: hai, so desu!
[21:26:01] <wjp> hm, I wonder if this xchat supports foreign charsets properly
[21:26:20] <armav> öäüß?
[21:26:37] <Coren_> No, speaks latin-1 and that's it.
[21:26:54] <Coren_> I'm not sure why IRC hasn't switched to UTF-8 yet.
[21:27:36] <wjp> well, you should just be able to use utf-8 over IRC
[21:27:38] <Coren_> Watchen das Blinkenlights!
[21:27:45] <Dark-Star> what happens if I send unicode? I guess it only comes out garbled...
[21:27:58] <Dark-Star> like >????·?< ??
[21:28:00] <Coren_> wjp: Yes, but unless everyone agrees it's UTF-8 you loose interoperability.
[21:28:19] <Dark-Star> ok, mIRC only shows ?'s there....
[21:28:33] <wjp> I get 4 ?'s a dot and another ?
[21:29:03] <wjp> ????
[21:29:10] <wjp> hm, that shows up as hiragana here
[21:29:14] <armav> Dark-Star> like >????·?< ??
[21:29:24] <Dark-Star> yep
[21:29:32] <Dark-Star> that's what I see here too
[21:29:49] * wjp wonders what exultbot made of that :-)
[21:29:50] <Coren_> At any rate, don't spew too much japanese at me. I've barely mastered my hiragana and katakana, and know little vocabulary. I'm at the 'Inu o namae wa nan desu ka? -- 'Fido desu'. level. :-)
[21:30:22] <wjp> lol
[21:30:31] <wjp> shouldn't that be inu no namae, btw?
[21:30:33] <Dark-Star> Coren_: yeah, I am not much further...
[21:30:39] <Coren_> Yes, that was a typo
[21:31:39] <Dark-Star> The hardest thing for me so far was the pronounciation of the "r" vowel... But I think I've got it now ;-)
[21:31:54] <Coren_> Heh. 'r' is a consonnant!
[21:32:13] <Dark-Star> yeah, well, I always mix them up ...
[21:32:22] <wjp> or a consonant, even :-)
[21:32:40] <Coren_> But I am a native french speaker with fluent spanish. That was a breeze for me. I still don't get 'u' quite right as far as my buddy/teacher is concerened, but I'm intellegible says he.
[21:33:26] <Coren_> Which, incidentally, is more than I can say for his english. LOL. The way they learn english in Japan is... impressive.
[21:33:40] <Dark-Star> the japanese "u" is something between the german "u" and the german "ü", so that one is quite easy for me ;-)
[21:33:59] <wjp> the typical english in anime is quite awful :-)
[21:34:22] <wjp> dutch has both 'u' and u-umlaut sounds too (although they're 'oe' and 'u' here)
[21:34:44] <Coren_> Dunno about anime; I'm no fan. I guess that makes me one of the rare english-speakers learning the language for some /other/ reason. :-)
[21:34:45] <Dark-Star> wjp: you should hear them talk german (wath "Neon Genesis Evangelion", somewhere around episode 16-18 IIRC)
[21:35:00] <Dark-Star> s/wath/watch
[21:35:12] <wjp> oh, yes, I remember that :-)
[21:35:20] <wjp> Asuka with her parents, right?
[21:35:20] <Coren_> I'm an avid manga reader, though. I'm not sure why anime never did anything for me.
[21:35:45] <armav> Coren_: how do people learn english in japan?
[21:35:45] <Dark-Star> wjp: yes
[21:36:29] <Dominus> probably depends on what you saw first. I first saw Captain Future as kid and it still is something I treasure (although it was kind of strange)
[21:36:41] <Coren_> armav: The way he put it, they learn the language stricky through katakana-ized spellings (and accordingly mangled pronounciations) and never actually *use* conversationnal english with native speakers.
[21:37:19] <Coren_> His favorite example remains: 'suteeki' -> 'steak'
[21:37:38] <armav> sutek is a mad wizard
[21:38:14] <wjp> well, that doesn't even sound that bad, I guess (the 'u' is silent quite often, isn't it?)
[21:38:38] <wjp> my mother has a shirt which has 'peak performance' on it in katakana (which she didn't know before I told her)
[21:38:46] <Dark-Star> wjp: correct
[21:38:53] <wjp> that was quite interesting to read too :-)
[21:38:53] <Dark-Star> *gg*
[21:39:11] <wjp> pi-ku parufuo-mansu, IIRC
[21:39:26] <wjp> (where - means a long preceding vowel)
[21:39:56] <Coren_> wjp: You normally double the vowel when you transliterate to roomaji. <-- like this.
[21:40:10] <Coren_> Though I have seen 'ou' used often as alternative to 'oo'
[21:40:17] <wjp> piiku reads kind of weird, though :-)
[21:40:27] <Coren_> But the others are simply doubled. 'aa' 'ii' 'ee' 'uu'
[21:40:35] <armav> you guys are so much cooler than i am, i don't speak any exotic languages :(
[21:40:58] <Coren_> Japanese is only exotic if you are a gaijin. :-)
[21:41:04] <armav> i am :)
[21:41:16] <wjp> 'speak' is a big word :-)
[21:41:24] <Coren_> armav: Are you a programmer at all?
[21:41:26] <wjp> I know a few dozen words and some hiragana :-)
[21:41:43] <Dark-Star> I'm glad that manga are pretty popular here in Germany by now, so they're very cheap (like 5-8 euros for a normal 150-200 page book)
[21:41:52] <armav> Coren_: i'm not a real programmer
[21:41:55] <armav> it's just a hobby
[21:41:59] <Coren_> armav: That would be why.
[21:42:08] <Dominus> as a kid I learned a bit of "tourist" suaheli (or however that african language is pronounced) but only a little bit has been left in my head
[21:42:36] <armav> is learnign japanese a techie thing?
[21:42:39] <Coren_> armav: While nobody has ever been able to explain the links, there is a very high correlation between programming ability and interrest in linguistics. Apparently, it tickles the same brain zones or something.
[21:42:53] <Dark-Star> I saw some manga in Australia and there they cost at least 20 AU-$ upwards per book, which is about 13 euros or so. Some were over 30 AU$
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[21:43:14] <Dark-Star> I really pity the australian manga fans, for they have to spend soooo much money on their hobby
[21:43:37] <Dominus> manga in Germany is not exactly cheap either
[21:43:39] <armav> computational linguists must be the happiest people on earth :)
[21:44:16] <Dark-Star> Dominus: I've not been in a country where they are cheaper so they are quite cheap to me. I know they're even cheaper in Japan itself
[21:44:27] <Dark-Star> ... but I've never been there (yet ;-)
[21:44:32] <Dominus> in America they are cheaper
[21:44:57] <Coren_> armav: Actually, I'd guess they are the most miserable. They stimulate the same pleasure centers, it seems, but until some amazing breakthrough computers suck fat hairy slugs through paper straws at NLP.
[21:44:58] <Dominus> at least the ones I am/was interested in
[21:45:20] <Dark-Star> oh really? too bad that I wasn't that much into Manga when I was in America back in 1999...
[21:46:37] <Dominus> they have the big trade-paperbacks which are costly but contain much more issues than a german published book has
[21:47:07] <Coren_> At any rate, here I am chatting away pleasantly while I should be wrapping my head around Plücker coordinates.
[21:47:31] <Coren_> And yes, I *am* positive about the umlaut in *that* name. :-)
[21:48:00] <Dark-Star> Dominus: are there any manga online stores in the US that you know? Maybe I'll find something there too ...
[21:48:31] <Dominus> there are but I don't know them
[21:48:34] <Dominus> :-)
[21:48:48] <armav> i like you analogy about the fat hairy slugs and the paper straws
[21:48:51] <armav> i'll remember it
[21:48:55] <armav> *your
[21:48:56] <Dominus> I mostly get my comics off passing trucks these days
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[21:50:02] <Dark-Star> Dominus: passing trucks? like those with the big donkey printed on the side, where all those DVD movies fall off? ;-)
[21:50:09] <wjp> I wonder in which charset I posted that hiragana earlier
[21:50:22] <wjp> exultbot's logs just show ???? when I force utf-8
[21:50:38] <wjp> Dark-Star: I think that's the same truck, yes :-)
[21:50:40] <Dominus> actually it has nothing to do with a donkey but with direct connect
[21:50:50] <Dominus> and usenet
[21:51:08] <wjp> and some big holes in the road? :-)
[21:51:31] <Dominus> I have not touched that donkey, kaazaa, torrent or whatever...
[21:51:40] <Dominus> veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery big holes
[21:51:45] <Dark-Star> well, reading comics on a computer is no fun (actually I don't like reading _anything_ on a computer...)
[21:52:18] <Dark-Star> well, I mean like books, comics, etc. reading _anything_ can hardly be avoided...
[21:52:37] <Dominus> reading comics on a compute really works, at least on a laptop
[21:52:57] <Dominus> there are already nice programs for it
[21:53:18] <Dark-Star> yes, I think LCD displays might be better suited for that, but not my CRT ...
[21:53:30] <Dominus> yep
[21:53:53] <Dominus> with my laptop I read them where I like reading the best...
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[21:55:50] <Dark-Star> wow, I just noticed that the monitor on my SGI has a serial console port on the back... I wonder what I can do with that ...
[21:56:30] <Dominus> though I have to say I don't get the obsession with downloading whole books. I could NOT read a whole book in front of the PC or on my Laptop
[21:57:55] <Dark-Star> Dominus: yeah, I guess reading a comic and reading an entire book are very different ... even on a laptop screen
[21:58:30] <Dominus> a comic I can read quicly in between doing sth but for a book I need time and need to be relaxed...
[22:28:07] <wjp> uh, why is there a piece of carpet in the middle of the ocean in BG?
[22:28:41] <wjp> coordinates (3072,3072)
[22:28:43] <wjp> hm
[22:28:55] <Dominus> roughly where is that?
[22:29:08] <wjp> the far SE
[22:29:17] <wjp> (or NW, NE, SW :-) )
[22:29:49] <wjp> found it while testing world-wrapping
[22:29:54] <wjp> which just crashed here
[22:30:55] <Dominus> I don't see that
[22:31:16] <wjp> hm, maybe a corrupted save
[22:31:37] <wjp> this was a fairly old savegame
[22:31:42] <Dark-Star> I think if it was a bug, someone would have found and reported it already...
[22:31:48] <Dominus> hm, tell me why we don't have teleport to coordinates yet? :-)
[22:31:59] <wjp> well, somebody did just file a bug on world-wrapping
[22:32:18] <wjp> I wonder why there's a tile 3072,3072 in the first place
[22:32:24] <wjp> I though the coords were from 0-3071
[22:32:30] <Dominus> I couldn't get there by the way
[22:33:00] <wjp> ok, no carpet tile in a new game
[22:34:41] <wjp> still got a crash while sailing a few 'laps' around (0,0), though
[22:35:56] <wjp> we have too many bug reports... *sigh*
[22:36:08] <Dominus> yes, we do...
[22:36:20] <Coren_away> =anick Coren_
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[22:37:13] <Coren_> Verdict: Plücker coordinates are neat, but not useful for me.
[22:38:48] <Dominus> the flying carpet works allright for me on the wrap arounds...
[22:39:20] <wjp> I did about a dozen laps before I got a crash
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[23:07:01] <wjp> sleep.. hmm.. yes, not a bad idea :-)
[23:07:01] <wjp> night
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[23:08:25] <Dominus> hi and bye, Kirben (got to sleep too)
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[23:25:31] <Coren_> LOL. I found code that does exactly what I need on the 'net. It's in fortran.