#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 8 Apr 2002 (GMT)

Archive Today Yesterday Tomorrow
Exult homepage

[00:04:19] * matto cracks Dominus's sorry pate like a coconut
[00:06:16] * wjp should go
[00:06:19] <wjp> night
[00:06:23] <-- wjp has left IRC ("[x]chat")
[00:45:49] --> lord_nose has joined #exult
[00:47:09] <Dominus> hi
[00:54:08] <lord_nose> hi
[01:17:16] <-- lord_nose has left #exult ()
[02:12:14] <-- Dominus has left #exult ()
[02:51:25] --> Darke has joined #exult
[02:51:25] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Darke
[02:51:49] * Darke bows. Hi.
[03:07:15] --- Darke is now known as Darke|afk
[03:37:18] --- Darke|afk is now known as Darke
[03:47:51] --> MeatShield has joined #exult
[03:53:42] <-- MeatShield has left IRC ()
[05:13:46] <-- hebble has left IRC ("Xchat probably crashed.")
[05:35:55] <-- Darke has left IRC ()
[05:36:05] --> Darke has joined #exult
[05:36:05] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Darke
[06:54:17] --> hebble has joined #exult
[06:54:21] <-- hebble has left IRC (Client Quit)
[07:41:23] --> V0|D has joined #exult
[07:41:27] <V0|D> hi all
[07:41:32] <Darke> Hi.
[07:41:42] <V0|D> hey darke, guess what? the java inheritance didnt work
[07:41:56] <V0|D> although it should have
[07:42:46] <V0|D> i'm programming in Java using mac osx's java bridge to get access to the native api's
[07:42:51] <Darke> Hmm... maybe use the 'implements' (IIRC) keyword? I haven't used Javain a while.
[07:43:07] <V0|D> and apparently there is a bug there
[07:43:22] <V0|D> no, you were right :)
[07:43:33] * Darke ahhs. No problem.
[07:43:37] <V0|D> hehe
[07:46:51] <V0|D> oh, the keyword is extends
[07:47:18] <Darke> Thanks. It's been a while. <grin>
[08:24:20] --> Kirben has joined #exult
[08:24:20] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Kirben
[08:27:36] <Darke> Hi.
[08:36:35] <Kirben> Hi
[10:00:24] <-- Kirben has left IRC ("System Meltdown")
[10:15:49] <-- flurotube has left IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[10:18:36] <-- Darke has left IRC (Remote closed the connection)
[10:24:32] --> Darke has joined #exult
[10:24:47] <-- Darke has left #exult ()
[10:26:37] --> Darke has joined #exult
[10:26:37] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Darke
[10:33:37] --> flurotube has joined #exult
[10:34:03] <Darke> Hi.
[10:36:08] --> Kirben has joined #exult
[10:36:08] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Kirben
[10:52:04] * Darke yays! After two hours he's _finally_ finished configuring and setting up his new irc client to his specifications. It takes a while. <grin>
[10:56:29] <V0|D> haha
[10:56:39] <V0|D> what are you using?
[10:57:09] <Darke> Currently xchat. I just switched from kvirc. Mainly because I can use multiple servers in one window. <grin>
[10:57:32] <V0|D> ahhh yes
[11:02:00] <Darke> Except for that problem, kvirc was 'perfect' for my needs. Currently I'm fiddling around with all the menus and such to move my common commands to where I can get to them easily. So, yes, I'm still configuring. <grin>
[11:04:30] <V0|D> heh, if you're anything like me, in a week you'll decide that you really like the controls back the other way
[11:07:46] <Darke> Nah. I need '/op' and '/query' near the top of my user menu for the user list, since I use them regularly. I got rid of all the buttons cluttering up underneath the user list, 4 of them I'll never use. I've added keystroke aliases for my common commands, fiddled with logging so it outputs to my specs. Lots of stuff. <grin>
[11:09:18] <V0|D> fun :) that reminds me of configuring a fresh OS install to personal tastes. nothing else I can think of takes quite so long
[11:12:09] * Darke points out that was the number two reason he switched his primary desktop to linux. He got so sick of reconfiguring everything once every two to three months when he'd corrupted the system enough to need to reinstall it.
[11:12:23] <V0|D> haha
[11:12:43] * Darke grumbles. There's no way to bind a key to 'close this tab'.
[11:15:47] * Darke had that problem with gtk-gnutella too. He's got a 'press ctrl-W to close a tabbed window' reflex. And there's no way to bind a key to it in either of them.
[11:16:13] <V0|D> mmm
[11:17:44] <-- Darke has left IRC (Remote closed the connection)
[11:18:59] --> Darke has joined #exult
[11:18:59] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Darke
[11:19:24] <Darke> Hmm... it would appear that xchat has some sort of conflict with something on this system. That's the second time tonight it's killed my entire X server.
[11:19:53] <V0|D> nasty
[11:20:44] * Darke had forcefully saved his changes. So he didn't lose any of his xchat settings. But it's still Just Not Good.
[11:20:59] <V0|D> i agree
[11:22:45] * Darke looks to the 1.9.0 dev version, but it's not in a enough of a 'working' state for him to try it, hmm...
[11:23:01] <V0|D> haha
[11:23:10] <V0|D> give it a go! you never know ;)
[11:24:55] <Darke> http://www.xchat.org/files/source/1.9/ <politecough> Really? I'm sure a reading of this will probably tell you that whilst it's _usable_, it has quite a few 'problems'. <grin>
[11:25:19] <V0|D> heh
[11:27:49] <flurotube> yeah xchat is just plain odd sometimes
[11:27:52] <flurotube> omho
[11:28:49] * Darke is not going to disagree with that. <grin> One oddity is that some parts of it are so customisable, but others you've got almost no control over.
[11:46:02] * Darke drools over KDE3.0 and really should install it. From source. <shudder> Have you seen the list of requirements? It's somewhat scary...
[11:46:13] <V0|D> what are they?
[11:46:39] <Darke> http://www.kde.org/announcements/announce-3.0.html#source_code-library_requirements
[11:47:54] <Darke> Erk. _And_ it wants you to compile it with gcc-2.95, rather then Redhat-gcc-2.96 (understandable), or gcc-3.0.x, because there may be problems otherwise.
[11:48:11] <V0|D> hmmmmm
[11:48:20] <V0|D> thats a lot
[11:49:53] <V0|D> hmm..looks nice tho
[11:50:01] * Darke notices he can upgrade to gcc-3.0.4, and starts downloading the source. Of course this will mean that he'll probably need to fiddle with exult again to get it to compile with the new compiler. <grin, duck>
[11:50:05] * Darke nodnodnodnodnods.
[11:50:24] * Darke is drooling over the latest KDevelop.
[11:50:39] <V0|D> hehe
[11:51:08] * Darke could use a version of gcc3.1 from the cvs... but he thinks that's probably not a good idea.
[11:51:20] <V0|D> haha
[11:51:50] <V0|D> one of the themes has window close/min/max widgets like os x
[11:51:58] <-- Darke has left IRC (calvino.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[11:52:26] --> Darke has joined #exult
[11:53:05] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Darke
[11:53:24] <V0|D> cool, i likeit
[11:53:33] <Darke> I just have this paranoia about using an experimental compiler in an important system. <grin>
[11:53:52] <V0|D> i can understand
[11:53:55] * Darke wonders why openprojects.net disconnected him. Weird.
[11:54:30] <V0|D> could wait till gcc3.1 is released.... ;)
[11:55:23] <Darke> Either that, or as suggested, join the gcc-deveoper mailing list then grab the cvs shapshot. <grin>
[11:55:53] <V0|D> could be dangerous?
[11:55:59] <Darke> The best idea, however, would be to grab the testsuits _and_ a copy of the cvs... <grin>
[11:58:39] * Darke wonders if there's a program out there that you can use to keep track of source releases of code from project's web/ftpsites. Then have it notify you, and maybe download the latest copy ready for you to install it...
[12:00:13] <V0|D> sounds like a good idea. so when will the first functional build be available ;)
[12:04:26] <Darke> You'd write it as a perl script. It's actually relatively simple when you think about it... hmm...
[12:04:55] <V0|D> hehehe, i think i hear you mind ticking over...
[12:05:06] * Darke pokepokes freshmeat.net
[12:05:35] <Darke> If it's _that_ simple, someone has to have written it before. <grin>
[12:06:03] <V0|D> haha i like your logic
[12:06:20] <Darke> It's just a case of finding the right keywords.
[12:07:35] <Darke> One search, one maybe. Not too bad so far.
[12:07:37] <V0|D> {hmmmm...}OOooo <:)
[12:19:36] <V0|D> later guys
[12:19:41] <-- V0|D has left IRC ("bye")
[12:50:23] <-- Darke has left IRC (calvino.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[12:50:23] <-- Kirben has left IRC (calvino.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[12:50:23] <-- flurotube has left IRC (calvino.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[12:50:23] <-- matto has left IRC (calvino.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[12:50:23] <-- cnj has left IRC (calvino.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[12:53:22] --> Kirben has joined #exult
[12:53:22] --> matto has joined #exult
[12:53:22] --> cnj has joined #exult
[12:53:22] --> flurotube has joined #exult
[12:53:22] --> Darke has joined #exult
[12:58:45] <-- Darke has left IRC (calvino.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[12:59:14] --> Darke has joined #exult
[12:59:30] --> artaxerxes has joined #exult
[12:59:38] <artaxerxes> Hi all
[13:00:11] <artaxerxes> juste by curiosity, what happens when usecode call an UNKNOWN intrinsic function ? (0440.uc)
[13:01:50] <artaxerxes> (offset 0116, 012F and 0133)
[13:03:20] <-- Darke has left IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[13:07:27] --> Darke has joined #exult
[13:07:27] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Darke
[13:07:51] * Darke grumbles. His net connection is in a sorry state tonight.
[13:14:05] <artaxerxes> if you guys are interested in Cantra's cured conversation, peek at 0440.uc
[13:14:20] <-- exultbot has left IRC (signing off...)
[13:15:26] --> exultbot has joined #exult
[13:15:26] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult: an open-source engine for Ultima 7: http://exult.sf.net/
[13:15:26] --- Topic for #exult set by wjp at Tue Apr 2 07:38:10 2002
[13:22:22] <Darke> (UNKNOWN intrinsics) No idea. Perhaps it's in a part of the conversation that never gets called?
[13:38:16] <-- Kirben has left IRC ("Sleep")
[13:55:46] <-- Darke has left IRC (sterling.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[13:55:46] <-- artaxerxes has left IRC (sterling.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[13:55:46] <-- flurotube has left IRC (sterling.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[13:55:46] <-- matto has left IRC (sterling.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[13:55:46] <-- cnj has left IRC (sterling.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[13:56:17] --> Colourless has joined #exult
[13:56:17] --> Darke has joined #exult
[13:56:17] --> artaxerxes has joined #exult
[13:56:17] --> flurotube has joined #exult
[13:56:17] --> cnj has joined #exult
[13:56:17] --> matto has joined #exult
[13:56:47] <Darke> Talk about the things some people code: http://sourceforge.net/projects/gratuitamis/ <grin> I can't say I've ever tried it, so I don't know how well it'd work.
[13:59:14] * Darke wonders about some projects on sf.net. No files in cvs, though there's obviously something being done. No webpage, even if it's just a basic 'this is it'.
[14:01:18] <Colourless> um, what is that?
[14:02:15] <Darke> Something that apparently scours porn from adult websites, then turns it into your own 'personal' porn website. Surreal, no?
[14:02:25] <Colourless> hmm
[14:04:19] * Darke still can't find any software that'll check of version i+1 of a list of software you've installed is out, and notify you. You'd think _someone_ would have thought of creating something like that and webifying it.
[14:04:57] * Darke cringes at 'webifying'. Where on _earth_ did he get that term from?
[14:08:56] <artaxerxes> Colourless: do you know if there are still a LOT of intrinsic that has not been figured out ?
[14:10:05] <Colourless> no, there are very few unknonw
[14:11:08] <artaxerxes> 0440 has a 2: 0x9F and 0x9E
[14:12:10] <artaxerxes> it happens after a few flag tests and before a camera move
[14:12:38] <Colourless> no idea :-)
[14:13:11] <Colourless> they are obviously a pair. on will be check the other will be a set
[14:13:38] <artaxerxes> no necessarily... a bit ealier in the file, 0x9F is on its own
[14:14:09] <Colourless> yeah :-)
[14:14:26] <Colourless> i think you took what I said incorrectly
[14:14:36] <Colourless> both functions have to do with the same thing
[14:14:40] <artaxerxes> very possible.. :) Monday morning !
[14:14:48] <artaxerxes> I see
[14:14:49] <Colourless> one is an intrinsic to set what ever they do
[14:15:03] <Colourless> the other is an intrinsic to query what ever was set
[14:15:22] <Colourless> it's usually fairly easy to tell which does what
[14:15:48] <artaxerxes> list of unknown intrinsic (quite a bit actually):013E.uc:063C: 39 9F 00 01 calli _UNKNOWN@1 (009F) 013E.uc:0640: 39 9E 00 00 calli _UNKNOWN@0 (009E) 0281.uc:022C: 39 9A 00 01 calli _UNKNOWN@1 (009A) 02AF.uc:009C: 39 72 00 00 calli _UNKNOWN@0 (0072) 033D.uc:01A0: 39 72 00 00 calli _UNKNOWN@0 (0072) 033D.uc:028F: 39 72 00 00 calli _UNKNOWN@0 (0072) 0357.uc:004C: 39 72 00 00 calli _UNKNOWN@0 (0072) 03
[14:15:55] --> hebble has joined #exult
[14:16:05] <artaxerxes> 013E.uc:063C: 39 9F 00 01 calli _UNKNOWN@1 (009F) 013E.uc:0640: 39 9E 00 00 calli _UNKNOWN@0 (009E) 0281.uc:022C: 39 9A 00 01 calli _UNKNOWN@1 (009A) 02AF.uc:009C: 39 72 00 00 calli _UNKNOWN@0 (0072) 033D.uc:01A0: 39 72 00 00 calli _UNKNOWN@0 (0072) 033D.uc:028F: 39 72 00 00 calli _UNKNOWN@0 (0072) 0357.uc:004C: 39 72 00 00 calli _UNKNOWN@0 (0072) 0375.uc:014F: 39 72 00 00 calli _UNKNOWN@0
[14:16:21] <artaxerxes> humm... I am limited in the post length!! :/
[14:16:44] <artaxerxes> 9f, 9E, 9A, 72, 67, 93 and 58
[14:16:45] <Colourless> well i see 72, 9A, 9E and 9F there
[14:18:14] <Colourless> 67 and 72 are not implemented, but their function might be known according to comments in the code
[14:18:37] <Colourless> 9a, 9e, 9f are completely unknown
[14:18:58] <Colourless> 93 is guess to mean Stop_attacking_avatar, but is not implemented
[14:19:13] <Colourless> 58 is unknown
[14:20:50] <Colourless> 9a might be close the gump of a particular item
[14:22:07] <Colourless> the functions don't seem too important for what you are doing i would imagine
[14:22:13] <artaxerxes> oh wait... there are more! a6, 9c, 96, 64, b5, c0, 6b, 90 and 38
[14:22:21] <artaxerxes> true
[14:22:33] <artaxerxes> to a certain degree
[14:23:21] <Colourless> 6b is probably time_stop
[14:23:38] <artaxerxes> If I translate Cantra's conversation for instance, it might be the right time to correct the usecode so that she acts normally once cured. Those intrinsic _could_ be part of the usecode to change.
[14:23:43] <Colourless> 90 'might' be call_guards
[14:23:56] <-- hebble has left IRC ("Xchat probably crashed.")
[14:24:41] <Colourless> 38 is unknown
[14:25:10] <Colourless> a6 is get_skin_colour, and it's implemented too!
[14:25:22] <Colourless> 9c unkown
[14:25:50] <Colourless> 96 unknown
[14:26:06] <Colourless> 64 unknown
[14:26:17] <Colourless> b5 unknown
[14:26:28] <Colourless> c0 unknown
[14:29:36] <artaxerxes> it's not that many comparing to the amount of intrinsic functions
[14:29:46] <artaxerxes> you guys have done a great work
[14:33:38] * Darke yawns. gcc3, even compiles gcc3 slow!
[14:35:46] <artaxerxes> I've got a legal question regarding the translation...
[14:35:59] <artaxerxes> should I put it here or on the phorum ?
[14:36:04] <artaxerxes> or both ?
[14:36:22] <Colourless> well, it depends on what it is... the forum would probably be better though
[14:36:26] <artaxerxes> ok.
[14:36:32] <artaxerxes> I'll post it there
[14:42:35] <artaxerxes> done
[14:48:06] <Darke> IMO, you should only store the diffs of the {untranslated}->{translated} .uc files in cvs. And have a pair of scripts that you run before and after you commit/update, to create the update the diffs and update the .uc files.
[14:48:22] <Darke> This, of course, avoids the 'is it legal' question altogether. <grin>
[14:48:52] * Darke upgrades to gcc3.0.4 and hopes exult will still compile. <grin>
[14:52:01] <Darke> It compiles pentagram faster then gcc3.0.3 did. This is a Good Thing. <grin>
[15:10:37] <artaxerxes> the thing is, we want to use CVS so that we have one central repository of the files to translate!
[15:11:40] <Colourless> i would say you wouldn't be able to do it
[15:12:07] <Colourless> it would be seen as distributing copyrighted material without permission
[15:12:08] <artaxerxes> zut
[15:12:26] <artaxerxes> what if I stored the .data part only of the uc ?
[15:13:57] <Colourless> i would think it's still the same
[15:14:22] <Darke> <nod> You can still do that. You just need to scripts/batch files. Say for example you have to directories, one which contains the entire original usecode files, all ripped and converted to .uc files, and the other the same, except you've translated some of them. Before you checkin your changes you run a script, that does a diff of each of the .uc files between the original/ and the changed/ dirs, and creates a pile of *.uc.diff files.
[15:14:32] <Darke> You then commit all the .diff files. Only these are in the cvs.
[15:15:58] <Darke> Then you checkout, which changes all your local diff files, then run another script/batch file, which diffs from the original/ and overwrites your changed/ .uc files. Or it theoretically update your changed/ .uc files directly.
[15:15:58] <artaxerxes> I understand. I might look into that
[15:16:38] <Darke> It's the only 'legal' way to do it, I think.
[15:18:24] <artaxerxes> I would tend to think that since you cannot recreate a working usecode out of uc we want to post (since we don't post the non-text uc), there should be no pb.
[15:18:44] <artaxerxes> after all there are more no-text uc that text-uc
[15:20:44] <Darke> Irellivant. It's the text they have the copyrights on. You've got 'fair use' law on your side for small amounts provided it's properly attributed, but for anything more then a few paragraps of original text, the'll easily be able to sic lawyers on you.
[15:23:19] <Darke> Not that if they won't think about sicing lawyers on you, even if they _think_ that their copyright will be infringed upon.
[15:24:14] --> wjp has joined #exult
[15:24:15] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to wjp
[15:24:17] * Darke does think that EA, however, is ignoring all the Ultima projects currently. For what reason he isn't really sure though.
[15:24:18] <wjp> hi
[15:24:22] <Darke> Hi.
[15:24:26] <Colourless> hi
[15:25:28] <artaxerxes> hi
[15:26:14] <artaxerxes> the diffs that I post would contain text from the original though, right ?
[15:26:23] <artaxerxes> do I have to encode it ?
[15:26:38] <artaxerxes> of post a diff from the uco instead of the uc ?
[15:26:48] <wjp> even the translations are copyrighted, I guess
[15:27:03] <artaxerxes> no kidding! Even if we did it ?
[15:27:46] <Darke> You'd have to use something else other then diff, or even write a small 'diff' program yourself for that specific purpose.
[15:28:01] <artaxerxes> ips !
[15:28:20] <wjp> maybe just the data segments of the translated .uc's?
[15:28:33] * Darke _thinks_ translations are copyrighted if you translate from an original copyrighted work.
[15:28:43] <artaxerxes> that's what I proposed earlier but it has been suggested that it wasn't a good idea
[15:29:03] <artaxerxes> since .data is the copyrighted part
[15:29:15] <Colourless> well, all of it is copyrighted
[15:29:19] <Colourless> code and data
[15:29:35] <Darke> If it's just the data segments of only the translated ones, then yes it should be as 'legal' as the diffs.
[15:30:27] <artaxerxes> so I should make it so that the diffs only contain our texts.... hmmm
[15:30:47] <artaxerxes> can't use the normal diff with that....
[15:31:22] <artaxerxes> moreover the rest of the team is using Windows so I can kiss diff goodbye anyways
[15:33:08] <artaxerxes> btw, I've so many headaches already with CVS!
[15:33:12] <wjp> better just create your own small tool then
[15:33:47] <artaxerxes> no delete function, can't remove a sub-dir or remove a module altogether!
[15:33:50] <Colourless> hmm, i have diff for windows... i think it came with wincvs
[15:33:56] <artaxerxes> oh nice
[15:34:08] <wjp> cvs has quite a few flaws, yes
[15:34:47] <Darke> <nod> If no two people are going to work on a single function, then it's probably quicker and easier to write your own 'diff' replacement, probably replacing the entire line of 'original' text with a checksum for that line and working that way.
[15:35:20] <artaxerxes> do I have to make "cvs add diffs/0034.uc.diff" for every diffs I make or is there a more automatic way to add all the newly created files in the CVS ?
[15:35:45] <wjp> "cvs add diffs/*.diff" ?
[15:35:48] <Darke> `cvs add diffs` will add the entire contents of the dir, I think.
[15:36:00] <wjp> no, that will only add the dir, AFAIK
[15:36:02] <Colourless> no, it will only add the dir
[15:36:22] <artaxerxes> but will it complain about adding already existing files ?
[15:36:25] * Darke nods. Thanks.
[15:36:39] <Colourless> do an update
[15:36:39] <wjp> what do you mean?
[15:36:50] <Colourless> no commit i mean
[15:37:03] <Colourless> you make changes to the diff files, then you do a cvs commit
[15:37:30] <Colourless> if you enable recursive dirs, it will automatically commit all chant
[15:37:30] <Colourless> changes in all files to cvs
[15:37:55] <artaxerxes> imagine the scenario: there are 3 files in diffs/. I translate 5 more, make a diff. put them in my local tree and want to push them to the CVS server. if I do a "cvs add diffs/*.diff", is it going to add the already existing 3 files ?
[15:38:09] <Colourless> no it wont
[15:38:24] <wjp> it'll probably just give a few warnings
[15:38:25] <artaxerxes> commit won't add new files I think.
[15:38:34] <wjp> yeah, commit doesn't add new files
[15:39:26] <artaxerxes> I can live with a few warnings
[15:39:59] <artaxerxes> how do you guys rename a sub-dir with CVS ?
[15:40:05] <wjp> you don't
[15:40:09] <Colourless> you can't
[15:40:34] <wjp> CVS treats directories as completely static objects
[15:40:35] <artaxerxes> what a pain!
[15:40:49] <wjp> you can't rename them, delete them or move them
[15:42:38] <artaxerxes> the sf staff has reset my CVROOT under my request... I've managed to goof already with CVS by adding wrong files and wrong directories...
[15:42:51] <artaxerxes> At least now I'll start clean
[15:43:15] <wjp> planning ahead is kind of important with cvs
[15:43:29] * wjp checks on the svn homepage
[15:43:46] <artaxerxes> svn ?
[15:44:04] <wjp> subversion. A CVS replacement which _does_ handle these things properly
[15:44:12] <wjp> http://subversion.tigris.org/
[15:44:20] <wjp> seems to be progressing nicely
[15:44:27] <artaxerxes> that's the GPL one
[15:44:44] <artaxerxes> ah no
[15:44:55] <artaxerxes> it's Apache'style licence
[15:45:02] <wjp> it's in fact an apache (2) module
[15:46:16] <artaxerxes> I have to go back to work.... talk to you later... thx all and have a good one
[15:46:32] <Darke> Bye.
[15:46:44] <wjp> bye
[15:46:44] <-- artaxerxes has left IRC ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.1")
[15:46:44] <Colourless> bye
[15:47:25] * wjp looks at the is_installed thing hebble mailed
[15:47:49] <wjp> I don't really like the way the is_installed function works currently
[15:48:09] <Colourless> well change it :-)
[15:48:28] * wjp wonders what to change it to
[15:48:47] <wjp> not liking something is the easy part; figuring out a better way is slightly harder, usually :-)
[15:49:23] <Colourless> well, don't complain untill you have a better solution :-)
[15:49:33] <wjp> if it was only BG/SI it would've been easy, I guess: just add a 'bool is_installed()' that checks in the supplied paths
[15:49:53] <wjp> bah, how are you ever going to get a discussion on how to improve things if you can't complain? :-)
[15:50:11] <wjp> as long as you plan to actively participate in the discussion I would say you're allowed to complain :-)
[16:06:58] * Darke complains, that to upgrade to kde3 (~200Meg compressed source), he 'needs' to upgrade/install 22 other programs (~100Meg compressed source). Including XFree86, which he's not looking forward too. The next couple of days should be 'fun'. <grin>
[16:15:26] --> sb-x has joined #exult
[16:16:11] * sb-x bows.
[16:16:13] <sb-x> hello
[16:16:15] <wjp> hi
[16:16:22] <Darke> Hi.
[16:17:58] <sb-x> so
[16:18:05] <sb-x> whats going on today?
[16:18:26] <Colourless> nothing of any note :-)
[16:18:56] <Darke> And most certainly nothing of C#. <duck>
[16:19:12] <Colourless> you act as if one of us uses it
[16:19:37] * sb-x throws his "Passport" at Darke.
[16:19:38] <Colourless> ... OMG... is that a confession you are trying to make Darke???
[16:20:33] <Darke> What? The I happen to like the C# note? It sounds nice.
[16:21:48] <Colourless> C#3 on my old piano was completely screwed up. You pressed the key, and it made a pinging sound... not good at all. It was kind of unique and I got used to it after a while. It became strange playing on a piano without it :-)
[16:23:58] * Darke 's piano's middle C is _completely_ out of tune. That's got to be the most annoying key on the entire keyboard to go out of tune. <grin>
[16:24:51] * sb-x has no musical instruments.
[16:27:31] * Darke decides that sleep is probably a good idea. He's being mesmerised by the output of a 'make' scrolling by. \"Night!\"
[16:27:45] <sb-x> -DGoodnight
[16:27:51] <-- Darke has left #exult ()
[16:28:34] <sb-x> who knows hiragana?
[16:28:55] <wjp> japanese?
[16:29:04] <wjp> I have a link to a list somewhere, I think :-)
[16:29:09] <sb-x> yes
[16:29:20] <sb-x> im looking at what looks like a backwards 'shi'
[16:29:24] <sb-x> but i dont have it on my chart
[16:29:58] * wjp looks up shi
[16:30:27] * wjp doesn't see shi
[16:31:24] <sb-x> thanks it doesn't matter
[16:31:28] <sb-x> i wouldnt know what it meant if i decoded it
[16:31:30] <sb-x> hehe
[16:31:35] <wjp> :-)
[16:32:43] <wjp> ah, shi is just the s-form of the 'i' sound?
[16:32:54] <wjp> something like a mirrored J?
[16:33:03] <sb-x> yes
[16:36:37] * sb-x has to go back to programming.
[16:36:41] <sb-x> bye
[16:36:42] <-- sb-x has left IRC ("X-Chat [1.6.4]")
[16:54:47] --- wjp is now known as wjp|dinner
[17:13:57] --- wjp|dinner is now known as wjp
[17:26:59] --> bj0ern has joined #exult
[17:27:09] <wjp> hi
[17:27:15] <bj0ern> hi
[17:27:19] <Colourless> hi
[17:28:52] <matto> bj0ern: Ich haette eine geniale Idee fuer etwas das man in EXULT einbauen sollte. Warum verwendet ihr sie nicht bzw. baut sie in EXULT ein ?
[17:29:22] * wjp looks that up in the daphne faq
[17:29:29] <matto> hey!!! hehe
[17:29:49] <bj0ern> hm? ich hab nix mit exult zu tun :) ich spiel nur ab und an :)
[17:30:25] <matto> bj0ern: eh? warum bist du hier?
[17:30:33] <wjp> matto: Eine bessere Frage wäre, warum baust du sie nicht ein ?
[17:30:45] <bj0ern> nur so, weil mich exult interessiert, und die leute nett sind :)
[17:30:53] <matto> bj0ern: lol
[17:31:01] <matto> bj0ern: wjp ist nicht nett
[17:31:08] <bj0ern> klar
[17:31:12] * wjp slaps matto around a bit with a large trout
[17:31:16] <matto> ouch .. that hurt
[17:32:17] <matto> bj0ern: I'm glad you are willing to speak German to me .. when I try it with Fingolfin and Dominus they just laugh at me :(
[17:32:27] <bj0ern> hehe
[17:32:49] * wjp wonders why :-)
[17:32:53] <bj0ern> some channels are english only
[17:33:08] <matto> I get the feeling that they are telling me "We already know English, it is a waste of time for you to practice German"
[17:33:25] <wjp> hehe, you just copy-paste from FAQs :-)
[17:33:43] <matto> no, I said two original sentences to bj0ern :)
[17:33:50] <matto> I asked him why he was here and I said that you weren't nice :)
[17:33:51] <wjp> true :-)
[17:34:28] <bj0ern> ok, afk, gotta eat something
[17:34:29] <matto> I can't construct that FAQ question from scratch.. it's too complicated
[17:34:39] <matto> and I want it to have the full effect ... :)
[17:35:21] <matto> wjp: you will dread the day I ask that question in Dutch! hehe
[17:35:27] <wjp> hehe :-)
[18:06:07] --> hebble has joined #exult
[18:06:35] <wjp> hi
[18:06:41] <Colourless> hi
[18:07:09] <hebble> Hello. Did you get my email to the list?
[18:07:14] * wjp nods
[18:09:03] <hebble> I thought, great, now I can chmod and clean up my exult directories. And suddenly, I got the message about not being able to find either game installed anywhere. I'll probably get to it this evening (~5-6 hours from now).
[18:10:13] <bj0ern> back
[18:30:53] * bj0ern wonders if Peroxide will ever get done with their U1 remake
[18:47:09] --> wjp_ has joined #exult
[19:07:10] * wjp sighs... silly ip_nat_irc module
[19:15:49] <-- wjp_ has left IRC ("[x]chat")
[19:15:59] --> wjp_ has joined #exult
[19:34:36] <-- wjp_ has left IRC ("[x]chat")
[19:34:51] --> wjp_ has joined #exult
[19:35:10] <-- wjp_ has left IRC (Client Quit)
[19:35:19] --> wjp_ has joined #exult
[19:41:09] <-- wjp_ has left IRC ("[x]chat")
[19:42:02] --> wjp_ has joined #exult
[19:42:28] <-- wjp_ has left IRC (Client Quit)
[19:42:31] * wjp sighs
[19:43:40] <Colourless> hmm, what's up with you?
[19:44:33] <wjp> trying to get dcc working
[19:44:45] <wjp> kernel modules aren't really cooperating
[20:17:22] --> Dominus has joined #exult
[20:17:31] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Dominus
[20:17:54] <Colourless> hi
[20:17:54] <Dominus> hi
[20:18:27] <Dominus> so now that you figured out the sfx when is the intro coming? :-)
[20:19:35] <Colourless> the intro is in a flex... the method used to store it was devised by jason ely... that is all i know
[20:20:35] <Dominus> no hurry, I'm sure you will figure it out in time :-)
[20:21:33] <Colourless> something i didn't think about is the sound in the intro will also be compressed using sonarc
[20:21:53] <Colourless> i thought of that this after noon
[20:22:24] <Dominus> I guess in the end you will actually use a similar way to handle the intro as you did the sfx (using u8.exe)
[20:23:33] <Colourless> well yeah, same method needs to be used...i just wonder if i should set things up to do decompress the intro sound in real time
[20:23:55] <Dominus> btw, I read "that" thread on x3dfx forum. sometimes I think all the people owning a 3dfx card have some serious ego problems :-)
[20:24:29] <Colourless> i rarely post anything there for that exact problem :-)
[20:24:39] <Colourless> they just don't get 'it'
[20:25:17] <Dominus> I'm still wondering why they just can't stop flaming over there
[20:26:06] <Dominus> well, Devo seems to have serious ego problems but people seem to take it all sooo serious over there
[20:27:08] <Dominus> I guess there is not much else you can say about that bunch
[20:27:23] <Colourless> they need to move on... that is all that can be said
[20:27:34] <Dominus> yeah
[20:28:08] <Colourless> the 3dfxU GL ICD project just makes things worse... it's creating false hopes
[20:29:20] <Dominus> well it will only prolong the inevitable end
[20:29:27] <Colourless> i say that because pretty much everyone there doesn't really understand that much about 3d graphics and how that some features of the icd will actually be too slow to actually use
[20:29:33] <Colourless> yeah, exactly
[20:30:42] <Colourless> of course I am actually skeptical about anything in regards to the icd... i question if the screenshots and what not are actually showing what they are supposed to be showing
[20:31:21] <Dominus> I'm looking forward to it but I won't hold my breath
[20:31:46] <Dominus> it's not that I'm playing any ogl game (not that I play much anyway)
[20:32:41] <Dominus> that announcement about them not releasing stuff made me actually think it was all bogus anyway
[20:33:06] <Dominus> but I liked your style in exposing this fraud :-)
[20:34:27] <Colourless> well, my reasons for doing it were true
[20:35:40] <Colourless> devo hasn't actually done anything to piss me off personally, but i just don't like him, and what he did was wrong in so many ways, so i just had to post the email
[20:35:52] <Dominus> the funny thing was that halfway through the thread I decided to read it from the end to front and was surprised Devo talking about you and that you exposed something. I was like "huh?" :-)
[20:37:49] <Colourless> :-)
[20:38:02] <Dominus> what I thought was really bad about this stunt was that it really didn't shut the flamers up but made them think they were actually right
[20:38:20] <Colourless> i read 2 pages, skipped to the end and posted the email. I actually haven't read much of it at all
[20:39:05] <Dominus> you didn't miss much
[20:40:53] <Colourless> i actually tend to agree with the so called flamers there... but remember it takes 2 (or more) people to flame, someone needs to post flamebait, someone needs to reply and so on :-)
[20:42:11] --> wjp_ has joined #exult
[20:42:13] <Dominus> the people on 3dfU that are working on actual stuff would be better off without Devo IMO as he just draws too much flames to ever calm it down
[20:42:23] <-- wjp_ has left #exult ()
[20:42:50] <Colourless> devo gets himself into unwinnable positions, and he is a fool because of it he really needs to shut up and put up with all the crap that goes on. really if the just released a beta version of the gl icd many people would shut up
[20:43:12] <Colourless> peace and harmony would ensure :-)
[20:44:03] <Colourless> of course I have no clue what is actually going on with the icd and i am very much opposed to it not being opensourced
[20:44:12] <Dominus> he should just quit talking about it and say "everything will be answered when it is released"
[20:44:36] <Dominus> I guessed as much :-)
[20:45:29] <Colourless> people should be doing such things for the community. keeping the source closed is not working for the community
[20:45:34] <Dominus> Devo hinted a couple of times that people asked for it to be opensourced and I always had to think about you
[20:47:22] <Colourless> might of been me, might not have been... but i am pretty sure that at some stage i did post something at the 3dfxu forums about opensource
[20:47:43] <Dominus> others did as well on x3dfx
[20:47:58] <Dominus> I'm not really reading the U-forums
[20:48:17] <Colourless> heh, i hardly read the forums as is
[20:48:57] <Colourless> i really find nothing much of interest at either
[20:50:11] <Dominus> me neither, I just sometimes take a look at closed threads as those are the funnies :-)
[20:50:44] <Colourless> the only 3d forums i actually read are the beyond 3d forums. the b3d forums are populated with people who 'really' know about 3d... though someone at one stage thought i did work for nvidia... but that's a long story :-)
[20:51:18] <Dominus> he he! why did he think that? :-)
[20:52:46] <Colourless> because i seem to know things, plus i have been involved with 3dfx/quantum 3d... though i reality, i just keep quiet and only when i have some words of wisdom do i ever speak up... tends to make it seem i know more than I actually do :-)
[20:54:17] <Colourless> anyway, it was known that one person who used to visit beyond 3d was an nvidia engineer (and hadn't posted in a whlie).... and people started guessing who it was... since i post rarely, someone said it was me
[20:54:40] <Dominus> wow that was a long story now :-)
[20:54:54] <Colourless> :-)
[20:55:40] <Dominus> is it just me or is exult.sf.net really slow atm
[20:55:45] <Colourless> in reality it was a person called "Ghost of envy" (think about that name for a minute... say it out loud real slow)
[20:56:10] <Dominus> :-)
[20:56:21] <Dominus> nice namiing
[20:56:37] <Dominus> but I really had to say it out loud
[20:56:43] * wjp tries that
[20:56:49] <wjp> ah :-)
[20:57:29] <wjp> brb
[20:57:34] <-- wjp has left IRC ("[x]chat")
[20:57:35] <Colourless> i think another reason why the person might have though it was me is because as far as I know, i have never told anyone my real name. i have always been the anonymous character "Colourless"
[20:57:37] --> wjp has joined #exult
[20:57:59] * Dominus wonders if wjp ever gets his dcc working
[20:58:01] <Colourless> colourless i must admit is a pretty good name for someone who 'has' something to do with 3d :-)
[20:58:08] <Colourless> he did get it working :-)
[20:58:30] <wjp> Dominus: see :-)
[20:58:36] <Dominus> whoohoo
[20:59:19] <Dominus> Colourless: it might also be because you always keep so quiet and then suddenly in the middle of a discussion surprise evryone else with your knowledge
[20:59:21] <wjp> I had to re-order part of the kernel module that handles it, but it seems to work now
[20:59:34] * Dominus is not speaking about exult but that 3d stuff :-)
[21:00:48] <Colourless> don't you find it odd that a person who is so into 3d stuff would be working on pretty much purely 2d game engine :-)
[21:01:33] <Colourless> of course i hope to change that with pentagram :-)
[21:01:34] <Dominus> well no one would stop you from doing exult in opengl or add 3d to it :-)
[21:02:49] <Colourless> you know, i actually have little interest in adding 3d to Exult, but i'm all enthused about adding it to pentagram
[21:03:51] <Dominus> you mean you want to make Pentagram into running U8 after all ? :-)
[21:04:22] <Colourless> quiet... no one is meant to know :-)
[21:04:42] <Colourless> it's all supposed to just look like a bunch of ultima8 technologies and tools
[21:04:43] <Dominus> he he
[21:05:05] <Colourless> that magically merge together and form an engine to play u8 all by themselves :-)
[21:05:55] <Dominus> so what you want tell me is that if I merge the pentagram tools into one exe then it works?
[21:05:57] * Dominus tries
[21:06:06] <Dominus> hmm, this is not working :-)
[21:06:08] <wjp> lol
[21:06:10] <Colourless> no, magic is required as i already stated
[21:06:16] <wjp> you probably merged them in the wrong order ;-)
[21:06:24] * Dominus tries again
[21:06:27] <Dominus> and again
[21:06:29] <Dominus> and again
[21:06:39] <wjp> let's see... how many tools do we have? :-)
[21:06:52] <wjp> should be about 8 by now?
[21:06:54] * Dominus decides wjp and Colourless are making a fool of me
[21:07:07] <Dominus> quite a bunch already
[21:07:08] <wjp> would we do that?
[21:07:21] <Dominus> No I enjoyed talking foolish again
[21:08:01] <Colourless> disasm, ucfiddle, dcmpsound, u8extract, u8saveextract, shpdisp, globdisp, animdisp, display
[21:08:08] <Colourless> that's 9
[21:08:28] <wjp> hm, 362880 ways to patch them all together
[21:08:48] <wjp> (if you only append them, that is)
[21:09:02] <Dominus> ok, I'll tell you in an hour or so if I found the right order :-)
[21:09:24] <wjp> you want to check 100/sec? :-)
[21:09:28] <Colourless> well, remember, ucfiddle only works in linux, so you've got no hope of finding it :-)
[21:15:23] <Dominus> hm, I have ucfiddle right here running :-)
[21:15:40] <Dominus> ifit works as intended is another question
[21:16:55] <Colourless> wjp: when viewing the disassembled u8.exe, i decided to look at how the credits (and quotes) ran, and it's kind of odd... it appears the are used to create a new pagan process.... which suggests they 'might' be usecode... but i can't see how... not that i've checked
[21:17:50] <wjp> usecode? hmm
[21:18:22] <wjp> the raw ecredits.dat doesn't look like at all like usecode
[21:18:28] <wjp> s/like //
[21:18:30] <Colourless> yeah i know
[21:18:59] <Colourless> the skf files are very much flexes
[21:19:54] * wjp nods
[21:23:47] <wjp> that ecredits.dat file is strange
[21:24:27] <Colourless> yeah it sure is
[21:24:46] <Colourless> i would have though something like credits would be stored as ascii
[21:25:25] <wjp> yeah, me too
[21:25:47] <Dominus> maybe they decided not to make it too easy for people that were going to reverse engineer it years later :-)
[21:25:58] <wjp> first 10 bytes of ecredits.dat and quotes.dat are the same
[21:26:52] <wjp> another strange similarity: bytes 10+1F are '{' and '}' in ecredits, and '(' and ')' in quotes.dat
[21:32:01] <-- flurotube has left IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[21:32:51] <Colourless> hmmm, it appears that the PaganProcess::PaganProcess contstructor the the playcredits function call is only used by the credits and quotes playing funcs
[21:35:37] <Colourless> the ultima 8 engine looks like it was really really complex
[21:38:56] <wjp> time for me to go
[21:38:59] <wjp> g'night
[21:39:03] <Colourless> bye
[21:39:14] <-- wjp has left IRC ("[x]chat")
[21:52:03] --> Kirben has joined #exult
[21:52:03] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Kirben
[21:53:09] <Dominus> hi Kirben
[21:53:14] <Colourless> yeah hi
[21:53:52] <Colourless> i think you coming online is my cue to leave :-)
[21:53:55] <Colourless> bye all
[21:54:16] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("no comment")
[21:54:34] <Dominus> he he
[22:00:49] <Kirben> Hi
[22:18:35] <-- bj0ern has left IRC ("Do androids dream of electric sheep?")
[23:05:13] <-- hebble has left IRC ("Xchat probably crashed.")
[23:41:49] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("Exult! Exult! Exult!")
[23:58:33] <-- matto has left IRC ("Play Dragon's Lair in linux - http://www.daphne-emu.com - Developers welcome :)")