#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 8 Aug 2003 (GMT)

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[00:02:17] <jan_here> how do I recompile the usecode when I changed it?
[00:04:27] <jan_here> ucc?
[00:04:50] <wjp> depends on which usecode you changed
[00:04:59] <wjp> which format, I mean
[00:05:09] <jan_here> SI. exult script code
[00:05:47] <wjp> um
[00:05:48] <wjp> oh
[00:05:50] <wjp> uhh
[00:05:54] * wjp pokes Darke
[00:06:06] <wjp> Darke: is that format compatible with ucc?
[00:06:14] <jan_here> I can also change the other format
[00:06:32] <jan_here> its just a wrong number... but would be useful to know
[00:07:18] <wjp> the only way I know of that really works currently is by using wud/wuc
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[00:14:22] * wjp should really be going
[00:14:23] <wjp> 'night
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[00:24:50] <jan_here> ugh.. do I need a hexeditor to change the usecode? what rip spits out is not really human readable..
[00:27:38] <jan_here> hmm.. wud
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[01:05:25] <sbx> jan_here: decompile the binary to usecode with wud, then put it back with wuc after you change it
[01:05:48] <sbx> then i think rip puts it back into the usecode file too
[01:05:54] <sbx> with another option
[01:14:30] <jan_here> i thin I figured it out.. i currently test drive it :)
[01:15:18] <jan_here> btw: what part presets all the gflags (global flags)? usecode or exult?
[01:17:19] <sbx> i wouldn't really know myself
[01:17:24] <sbx> but i'd guess exult/u7
[01:17:36] <sbx> because you have to have some event to call usecode
[01:17:53] <sbx> it doesnt just call some initialization usecode function when the game starts
[01:18:03] <sbx> so the engine would do it
[01:18:09] <sbx> with its own defaults or from your savegame
[01:18:27] <jan_here> there seem to be some wrong defaults.. I think..
[01:18:42] <sbx> how did you detect that?
[01:18:52] <sbx> i think that would have broken more things
[01:19:00] <sbx> but some of them might be unused
[01:19:06] <jan_here> you remeber the list of stuff that that got swapped in the game?
[01:19:22] <jan_here> the list you carry around?
[01:20:09] <jan_here> some items dont show up..
[01:20:38] <sbx> i remember that list but i only had it briefly
[01:20:45] <sbx> i don't know what items it needs
[01:21:26] <jan_here> well the display usecode for it traverses a list of items, what you have, if you already identified it etc..
[01:21:39] <jan_here> some are missing. theri flags are probably set to no
[01:24:09] <jan_here> its the only explanation I have. they should be listed.
[01:37:52] <jan_here> you know a tool to convert hex-> dec?
[01:43:20] <sbx> ghex has one
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[02:02:34] <jan_here> hmmm.. I probably ran into something that was cut from the final script..
[02:04:21] <sbx> cool
[02:04:28] <sbx> i havnt even played si
[02:04:34] <sbx> except for a few minutes
[02:04:56] <jan_here> the things are still in the inventory.. but part of the usecode that refers to them seems to be missing..
[02:05:26] <jan_here> its quite nice
[02:06:28] <jan_here> dialog parts are still there.. damn EA.. why did you always have to rush them?
[02:06:52] <jan_here> the real fun is supposed to start later, when your partymembers turn evil ..
[02:09:02] <jan_here> i should really start up dos again to have a closer look at the original..
[02:11:42] <sbx> i should play it i always mean to
[02:11:46] <sbx> but i need to go now
[02:11:48] <sbx> see you
[02:11:54] <sbx> later
[02:11:54] <jan_here> night
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[07:10:03] <Darke> (is ucxt's format compatable with ucc) I'd say completely unlikely. Also it probably won't recompile correctly either, since for complex functions, it simply won't decompile them correctly. Complex for or while statments in the original language transformed into some rather icky code, which I unfortunately can't untangle, so it confuses the parser when decompiling.
[07:11:21] <Darke> The 'best' thing to do is to read through the function and hand rewrite it into ucc's format. That way you'll notice anything really bogus, and will also be able to properly untangle the for/if/else/while stuff properly. Most simple stuff should be obvious and ok, just the more complex stuff (probably like most of SI *grin*) will likely cause some confusing problems.
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[13:03:23] <Colourless> hi
[13:14:27] <Cahaan> hey
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[13:49:53] <wjp> hi
[13:49:59] <Colourless> hi
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[13:50:32] <wjp> did you read about that chest/duplicating items bug?
[13:53:08] <Colourless> i've read something about it
[13:53:19] <Colourless> makes no sense what so ever
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[13:57:10] <wjp> indeed
[13:57:22] <wjp> items don't just duplicate themselves
[13:57:41] <wjp> only thing I can think of is that they somehow ended up in both the 'display list' and the container's child list
[13:57:49] <wjp> although I have no idea how that would happen
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[14:08:21] <Colourless> hell if i know what's going on
[14:08:32] <Colourless> i just did the entire knights test in si and i have no problems
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[14:13:08] <wjp> I played through part of BG a month ago without issues
[14:15:17] <Kirben> Could subtitles in introductions be made an option ?
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[14:18:43] <wjp> probably
[14:18:49] <wjp> wouldn't be much work
[14:19:31] <Kirben> btw someone reported bg intro. was running to fast the other day. The close up of moon fate was missing.
[14:20:25] <Colourless> we don't support the zoom
[14:20:36] <Colourless> and probably never will
[14:20:55] <Colourless> and yes we know about the 'report'
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[14:23:33] <wjp> we could use SDL_rotozoom maybe
[14:24:25] <Colourless> what version of sdl?
[14:24:35] <wjp> ?
[14:24:43] <wjp> it's a separate lib
[14:25:15] <Colourless> doing an arbitrary point sampling scale isn't 'difficult'
[14:25:22] <wjp> yeah
[14:26:15] <wjp> oh, SDL_rotozoom is deprecated I see
[14:26:24] <Kirben> ah I should read irc logs more often.
[14:26:27] <Colourless> just a streych nlit
[14:26:39] <Colourless> stretch blit even
[14:27:16] <wjp> maybe I'll implement it someday
[14:27:22] <wjp> or maybe not :-)
[14:27:58] <wjp> I'll be gone sunday-friday, btw
[14:28:18] <wjp> I _might_ have something committable for (pentagram's) avatar movement/pathfinding
[14:28:30] <wjp> I guess pathfinding is committable already
[14:28:35] <wjp> just needs a lot of tweaking
[14:28:38] <wjp> (especially the last step)
[14:29:26] <wjp> going home; bbl
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[15:29:26] <jan_here> can you show the paperdolls in the game with exult studio?
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[15:36:02] <jan_here> hi
[15:36:11] <SB-X> hello
[15:37:26] <jan_here> what you doing?
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[16:07:46] <SB-X> oops
[16:08:09] * SB-X shrugs.
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[16:22:40] <SB-X> wb
[16:23:12] <SB-X> i was in another window is what i was doing :)
[16:26:38] <jan_here> oh :)
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[16:59:53] <jan_here> is there more than one version of the SI usecode file?
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[19:52:29] <Dominus> hi
[19:52:41] <wjp> hi
[20:01:25] * Dominus thinks we will most likely NOT have a new release soon...
[20:01:42] <Dominus> just judging by the overall eagerness :-)
[20:02:07] <wjp> oh alright... *sigh*
[20:02:19] <wjp> I was just tracking down some dosbox bugs
[20:02:35] <wjp> but I guess I did say something about tagging on friday :-)
[20:04:11] <Dominus> suggestion for implementing the localized exultmsg.txt: crc-check on fonts.vga concerning BG (french, spanish, german, english), BG-FoV
[20:04:37] <wjp> yes, could do that
[20:04:41] <Dominus> only do that if there is no tag in the exult.cfg
[20:04:46] <Dominus> <language>
[20:04:51] <wjp> yeah, pentagram does something like that
[20:05:13] <Dominus> on check, make that tag in exult.cfg...
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[20:06:03] <Dominus> the tag would be needed for such projects like the french-SI translation which has the fonts.vga probably in the patch dir...
[20:06:04] <artaxerxes> hi all
[20:06:08] <Dominus> hi
[20:06:12] <artaxerxes> have good holidays wjp!
[20:06:12] <wjp> artaxerxes: thanks :-)
[20:06:26] <artaxerxes> were are u going?
[20:06:29] <Dominus> just talking about implementing the translations...
[20:06:30] <wjp> and thanks for that too :-)
[20:06:42] <artaxerxes> Dominus: I copied your exultmsg_de.txt and made a french one! :-)
[20:06:43] <wjp> not really a holiday, though
[20:06:58] <Dominus> I noticed
[20:07:02] <artaxerxes> wjp: what was the first thx for ?
[20:07:04] <wjp> artaxerxes: which is what the "thanks" was for ;-)
[20:07:05] <Dominus> what are you up to?
[20:07:21] <artaxerxes> just finished compiled the zaurus binary
[20:07:27] <artaxerxes> about to make the package
[20:07:32] <wjp> anyway, I'm a volunteer for a mathematics summercamp next week
[20:07:34] <Dominus> cool
[20:07:39] <wjp> same as the last 4 years this week :-)
[20:07:46] <Dominus> he he, I see
[20:07:57] <artaxerxes> enjoy!
[20:08:06] <wjp> really looking forward to it :-)
[20:08:12] <wjp> one of the best parts of the year usually :-)
[20:08:15] <artaxerxes> I just want to make sure I've got everything right b4 making the package:
[20:08:18] <Dominus> wjp, artaxerxes: what we need to think of is how to manage the translations overall
[20:08:28] <wjp> artaxerxes: can you wait until we tag?
[20:08:46] <artaxerxes> I've recompiled the binary and added the exultmsg.txt (english) to the data dir
[20:08:47] <wjp> although I doubt there'll be any code changes
[20:08:48] <artaxerxes> wjp: sure
[20:08:58] <Dominus> I presume at some point we might have also want to translate the exult menus
[20:09:10] <artaxerxes> I thought we were supposed to finish before you'd leave though.
[20:09:16] <wjp> Dominus: yes
[20:09:25] <wjp> that's the idea, yes :-)
[20:09:30] <wjp> I'm just updating version numbers now
[20:09:32] <artaxerxes> Dominus: should be translator's job though. Not exult's.
[20:09:32] <Dominus> so the question might be to have all the "defaults" in exult.flx and maybe the language versions in an extra flx
[20:09:59] <wjp> artaxerxes: we need to support translations, though :-)
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[20:10:09] <Dominus> artaxerxes: I meant how exult is going to handle the translated files
[20:10:10] <artaxerxes> how do you tell Exult to use exultmsg_de.txt too ?
[20:10:20] <artaxerxes> OIC
[20:10:31] <Dominus> atm, it would need to be copied over exultmsg.txt
[20:10:33] <artaxerxes> sorry... misunderstood what you meant
[20:11:09] <artaxerxes> it's already great to have that file!
[20:11:27] <Dominus> and atm I'd rather not mention this in the FAQ/readme until we have sorted out what to do with it exactly
[20:11:33] <wjp> hm, "make dist" is failing
[20:11:38] <artaxerxes> some in the Si-french team were getting anxious to get that done!
[20:11:55] <artaxerxes> (hard-coded strings translated)
[20:12:28] <artaxerxes> btw, I just finished Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers on Linux!
[20:12:34] <Dominus> he he
[20:12:39] <Dominus> great
[20:12:54] <artaxerxes> I was dying to play that game again
[20:13:18] <wjp> annoying... can't use "make dist" without having done a "make"
[20:13:27] <artaxerxes> make sens
[20:13:51] <artaxerxes> (since the dist package contains binaries!)
[20:14:19] <wjp> the problem is that you need head2data and expack I think
[20:14:34] <Dominus> so what would be the prefered way for the translations: have it all in exult.flx as subnames with _de/_fr or in seperate flx files with names like exult_de.flx, exult_fr.flx
[20:14:44] <Dominus> and sorry it is not really of important right now
[20:14:51] <Dominus> I'll write sth to the ML
[20:14:57] <wjp> Dominus: allow both, I would think
[20:15:21] <wjp> some translations could be bundled with exult in exult.flx
[20:15:29] <wjp> and you could do your own using external files
[20:15:30] <Dominus> or maybe one big pack called exult_langauge.flx :-)
[20:15:45] <wjp> nah, we have more than enough flexes already
[20:15:48] <artaxerxes> or <language>french.flx</language>
[20:15:58] <Dominus> true enough, they wouldn't take too mch more space in exult.flx
[20:16:02] <artaxerxes> <language>english.flx</language> etc
[20:16:49] <artaxerxes> remove from exult.flx everything language-dependant and put it in a separate flex
[20:17:04] <artaxerxes> (which is setup in the config file)
[20:17:40] <artaxerxes> each translator would have to create his own _language_.flx
[20:18:27] <wjp> that doesn't require moving everything out of exult.flx
[20:18:36] <Dominus> thinking of it I'd rather have it set up like : <language>english</language> french, german, spanish and that is usung the deafult file like exult.flx and then have another tag <lng_file> if you want to use another one
[20:20:12] <Dominus> there is not much left if you move everything language dependant out of exult.flx...
[20:20:14] <wjp> or you could merge them into one tag
[20:20:26] <Dominus> yeah
[20:21:02] <Dominus> if it is one of the triggers use the language in exult.flx and if it is a flx file use that one...
[20:21:03] <wjp> if you say <language>xyz</language>, look for xyz.flx and use that if it exists
[20:21:06] <wjp> if not, check if it's a known language
[20:21:27] <Dominus> yep, more logical
[20:21:38] <wjp> doesn't matter much
[20:22:19] <wjp> we'd need something of a language-flex-description file
[20:22:34] <wjp> (which would probably have to be the first file in language flex)
[20:23:34] <wjp> exult takes too long to compile :-)
[20:23:40] <Dominus> yes
[20:23:45] <artaxerxes> brb
[20:24:02] <sbx> language isnt the only use for these changes is it? can future patch makers use this to completely change the text? (even if its the same language)
[20:24:15] <Dominus> yes
[20:24:17] <wjp> sure
[20:24:49] <Dominus> but you just need to remember it is just for the few cases that we have hardcoded...
[20:25:14] <sbx> i was thinking that if someone wanted to make their own new game they might not want exult's default strings
[20:25:36] <wjp> most likely not, no :-)
[20:25:38] <sbx> whats not in text.flx
[20:25:41] <sbx> ok :)
[20:25:46] <Dominus> we have to really make sure that people do NOT think these are translations of the game :-)
[20:26:03] <wjp> another reason to keep them safely hidden in exult.flx by default
[20:26:13] <Dominus> yup
[20:27:36] <artaxerxes> ok
[20:28:39] <Dominus> let the maker of external files worry about explaining how to use those :-)
[20:29:32] <artaxerxes> so what's the recap to make sure we all understand each other?
[20:29:50] <wjp> no idea :-)
[20:30:12] <artaxerxes> ;-)
[20:30:48] <wjp> I think it involves writing some code, though
[20:31:27] <Dominus> the official translations (like the one by ma and artaxerxes) will go into exult.flx with a langauge tag (exultmsg_de.txt for example)
[20:31:42] <Dominus> my spelling goes to hell
[20:32:54] <Dominus> the tag <language> (under each game hierachy) will determine the language used
[20:33:06] <artaxerxes> oh, let me share my excitment with you all: you know what I am developing with ES. You know the scenario. Well, I've been trying to find archives I could use to make it more close to what really happened but I've found virtually nothing.... until yesterday at midnight, there was a special on Paris during the Belle-epoque! Exactly what I wanted!
[20:33:29] <Dominus> great!
[20:33:46] <wjp> cool :-)
[20:33:51] <artaxerxes> I was so happy! and so tired this morning! (00h00 -> 02h00)
[20:34:19] <artaxerxes> so I taped it using v4l and transcode! :-) And spent about 1hour to test the record beforehand
[20:34:38] <artaxerxes> my first digital taping!
[20:34:48] <Dominus> awe...
[20:35:42] <artaxerxes> took about 1.4 Gb though
[20:36:06] <wjp> ok... the .tar.gz make dist produced built succesfully
[20:36:07] <artaxerxes> for crappy 8fps (but good enough: at least the sound is in sync)
[20:38:17] <artaxerxes> (using a PII-350: which explain the 8fps)
[20:38:37] <artaxerxes> wjp: you were right when you said exult takes too long to compile...
[20:40:39] <wjp> ok, version numbers updated
[20:41:18] <wjp> I'll rush things through a bit I think
[20:44:18] <artaxerxes> I guess I'll have to recompile again then...
[20:44:53] <Dominus> wjp: I'm sure people will complain again about a rushed release :-)
[20:45:32] <wjp> I'm counting on it :-)
[20:45:46] <artaxerxes> that's why he's going on holidays! :-)
[20:47:45] <Dominus> can we include marketplace.mid and have a randomizer to play either of these two songs
[20:48:05] <Dominus> I'm sick of meditown.mid
[20:49:12] <artaxerxes> ;-)
[20:49:22] <wjp> cvs tagged... (release1_1Beta2)
[20:49:39] <artaxerxes> Dominus: wrt the email you just sent: si-french does offer its own fonts.vga (once patched)
[20:50:02] <Dominus> and I guess it is in the patch dir?
[20:50:24] <sbx> for new game makers, does a text.flx in patch/ override the one in static/ ?
[20:50:37] <wjp> waiting for artaxerxes's lock in /cvsroot/e/ex/exult/exult/docs/faq :-)
[20:51:04] <sbx> (or for translators)
[20:51:11] <Dominus> sbx: you could try
[20:51:43] <sbx> i could
[20:51:49] <artaxerxes> compile started at 16h44
[20:52:17] <wjp> checked out tagged cvs, making dist... *yawn*
[20:52:20] <sbx> "Vultures will pick thy bones!"
[20:52:32] <artaxerxes> I didn't touch /docs/faq! *innocent*
[20:52:55] <artaxerxes> Dominus: yes
[20:53:03] <Dominus> wjp: got my first bug report about the german exultmsg.txt
[20:53:27] <wjp> I saw the typo-fix :-)
[20:53:28] <artaxerxes> ;-)
[20:53:42] <Dominus> artaxerxes: that'S why I wrote it might need to crc check the patch dir as well
[20:53:42] <artaxerxes> ppl are peeky ;-)
[20:53:48] <artaxerxes> darn!
[20:53:52] <Dominus> wjp: actually I meant one besides that
[20:53:54] <artaxerxes> that's gonna get hard!
[20:54:45] <Dominus> wjp: the code page of it (latin1)is not handled by exult...
[20:54:52] <wjp> yeah, I know
[20:54:56] <wjp> I told you :-)
[20:55:03] <Dominus> yeah
[20:55:17] <Dominus> any idea on how to handle this?
[20:55:20] <artaxerxes> I do
[20:55:22] <wjp> a few
[20:55:45] <artaxerxes> replace the accentuated letters by the ones used in your fonts.vga (the german one)
[20:55:49] <artaxerxes> that is,
[20:56:23] <Dominus> (problem is I can't check it as I don't have it)...
[20:56:35] <artaxerxes> use an editor and replace every instance of u umlaut with the control character for it found in fonts.vga
[20:56:59] <artaxerxes> I've noticed BG's french fonts.vga has german characters too
[20:57:19] <artaxerxes> like the S-tset (?)
[20:57:25] <artaxerxes> (beta character)
[20:57:33] <Dominus> ah, so maybe crc check would reveal the same one...
[20:57:58] <wjp> there are many ways to check which language you're using
[20:58:23] <wjp> for english vs. spanish U8 I check a specific usecode function for a specific word
[20:58:41] <sbx> what about the game exe?
[20:58:43] * Dominus nods
[20:59:07] <sbx> ?
[20:59:11] <Dominus> game.exe is not present at everyone's dir anymore
[20:59:11] <wjp> too version dependant I think
[21:04:33] <wjp> uploading .tar.gz sources, building .rpm...
[21:05:47] * artaxerxes is still compiling
[21:06:00] * wjp compiled twice in the meantime :-)
[21:06:05] <artaxerxes> ;-)
[21:06:10] <wjp> or maybe three times even
[21:06:24] <wjp> hmm... the release manager's upload area has some interesting filenames...
[21:06:43] <wjp> on-line.tar.gz, on-line2.0.tar.gz, online-2.0.tar.gz, online.tar.gz...
[21:06:52] <wjp> sounds like someone couldn't make up his mind :-)
[21:09:53] * artaxerxes is still compiling... ;-)
[21:11:15] <artaxerxes> (on a PIII-500)
[21:14:09] <wjp> rpm done
[21:15:06] <wjp> uploading...
[21:15:07] <artaxerxes> compilation done at 17h07
[21:15:42] <artaxerxes> 23 minutes... no surprise I don't do it often!
[21:17:28] <artaxerxes> is exultmsg.txt in exult.flx ?
[21:17:33] <wjp> no
[21:18:05] <wjp> that's one of the main reasons for releasing this soon again :-)
[21:18:35] <artaxerxes> what should I do of the zaurus package ?
[21:18:58] <wjp> name it the same way as the last release and upload it to ftp://upload.sf.net/incoming
[21:19:11] <Dominus> only it is now beta2
[21:19:12] <wjp> so exult_1.1beta2_arm.ipk
[21:20:11] <artaxerxes> done
[21:20:35] <artaxerxes> I've got to go catch my subway!
[21:20:44] <wjp> ok, thanks for building and see you later :-)
[21:20:47] <Dominus> ok, see you
[21:20:47] <artaxerxes> see you later guys and have a good time wjp!
[21:20:52] <wjp> thx :-)
[21:20:55] <-- artaxerxes has left #exult ()
[21:22:58] <Dominus> exult needs 5:34 minutes to compile here...
[21:28:10] <wjp> about the same here
[22:37:37] <Dominus> I am just synchronising the mails from my laptop and the ones on my PC
[22:38:02] <Dominus> and found a strange email+virus from wjpalenstijn
[22:38:20] <wjp> "oh" :-)
[22:38:23] <Dominus> :-)
[22:38:41] <Dominus> including a stdout.scr (the virus) and an actual stdout.txt
[22:38:56] <wjp> smart worm :-)
[22:39:54] <Dominus> from 23.06.
[22:40:10] <Dominus> anyway deleted it now, just kept it around for fun...
[22:48:24] <Dominus> going now
[22:48:26] <Dominus> bye
[22:48:34] <Dominus> have fun at the math contest
[22:48:39] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("a pooka invited me to Charlie's")
[22:48:52] <wjp> s/contest/summer camp/ :-)
[23:10:24] <-- wjp has left IRC ("Zzzz...")