#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 8 Jan 2005 (GMT)

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[00:07:44] <servus> Fl00der, I flood.
[00:08:06] <Fl00der> ah :)
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[00:08:20] <Fl00der> well anyway
[00:08:22] <Fl00der> time to sleep
[00:08:28] <Fl00der> it's 2:08 AM :P
[00:08:40] <Fl00der> see ya tomorrow, good luck with exult 3D
[00:08:47] <Fl00der> hope you progress fast
[00:08:49] <Fl00der> :P
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[00:27:47] <servus> Someone on the phorum doesn't like the Fabivatar.
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[01:25:35] <servus> I just had a very interesting idea...
[01:25:47] <servus> Each chunk is made out of 16x16 tiles... what if the chunk was replaced by a 3D model? ;-)
[01:25:59] <servus> I'm looking at a river bank and playing "what if..."
[01:26:28] <servus> Even just reducing all water by 4 lifts and 3D-izing all water banks would produce a very neat effect.
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[02:35:04] <servus> One avatar, well-baked: http://24.205.120.21:81/images/screenshots/Exult3D-26.jpg
[02:49:28] <shazza> :o
[02:49:34] <shazza> that is damn nice
[02:49:52] <shazza> well done !
[02:50:10] <shazza> is it possible when changing his clothes, so does the sprite ?
[02:50:59] <servus> Thanks. What do you mean sprite? This replaces the sprite.
[02:51:42] <shazza> wait i just realised what i asked is impossible. i mean when you change the armor of the avatar, will the 3d model of him in the game's armor change too
[02:52:50] <servus> It's possible, and I've even implemented it in other programs, but as I told Colourless, it's waaaaaaaay too much work for right now. Maybe after I get essentials like trees and shrubs sorted out.
[02:53:02] <shazza> yep
[02:53:11] <shazza> the sky won't be that hard, would it ?
[02:53:54] <shazza> well anyway i can't wait for exult3d and you're doing a great job and take as much time as you want
[02:53:56] <shazza> :)
[02:54:06] <servus> A basic sky? No. I want to do more than basic though; something that changes a little with the weather.
[02:54:23] <servus> Thanks, and if you want to help model things, I have a list... :)
[02:54:53] <shazza> too bad i suck at anything graphical :(
[02:56:02] <servus> Hey I'm just the programmer, so unless I get an artist, you guys are getting 'programmer art' ;-P
[02:56:17] <shazza> looks fine so far
[02:56:23] <shazza> :P
[02:57:22] <servus> Be back in a bit.
[02:57:33] <shazza> k
[02:57:35] <shazza> cya servus
[02:57:42] <servus> Gonna animate that model soon and put it in the game, then Iolo is next. All the citizen NPCs wear trousers so I can use the same model for them all :-)
[02:58:13] <shazza> iolo's old :(
[02:58:14] <shazza> ^_^
[03:06:51] <Baastuul> Because of Ultima 7's font, I used to think that "Iolo" was actually "Jolo" for a while.
[03:08:36] <shazza> heh
[03:08:40] <shazza> lol
[03:08:51] <shazza> i first started playing it when i was 4 or 5 at my cousins house
[03:09:02] <shazza> didn't know/understand what was going on
[03:09:06] <shazza> i just loved the interactivity
[03:09:07] <shazza> :D
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[04:10:03] <servus> http://www.epicbeyond.com -- whoa, this looks kinda neat.
[04:17:45] <Baastuul> I'm downloading something and I'm on dial-up. What is it?
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[04:24:42] <servus> A free MMORPG that uses Ultima VII graphics.
[04:24:50] <servus> I'm trying it out right now. Seems kinda slow, but otherwise cool
[04:24:55] <servus> Slow-paced that is
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[04:50:28] <shazza> wow cool
[04:50:41] <shazza> does it credit Ultima VII ?
[04:53:27] <servus> Doesn't seem to
[04:53:34] <servus> I'm the only player on the entire server
[04:53:52] <shazza> heh i am downloading it now
[04:54:07] <shazza> is the map the same ?
[05:03:40] <servus> no
[05:03:52] <servus> completely new maps and interface and all that
[05:03:55] <servus> just the graphics are used
[05:03:59] <servus> doesnt seem to be any sound
[05:06:01] <shazza> this is sounding less and less good
[05:06:03] <shazza> by the minute
[05:10:30] <servus> Why?
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[05:17:12] <azzahs> ...
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[05:17:34] <shazza> i play it
[05:17:38] <shazza> and i didn't make a username first
[05:17:43] <shazza> and there was no way to exit it
[05:17:43] <shazza> @__@
[05:18:17] <servus> Heh
[05:18:28] <servus> You have to create an account from the webpage, and a user from ther etoo
[05:18:37] <shazza> yep
[05:18:43] <shazza> and i had to restart the computer ._>
[05:18:45] <shazza> *._.
[05:18:51] <shazza> ctrl+alt+delete iddn't work, alt+f4 etc etc
[05:18:51] <shazza> :(
[05:20:50] <servus> err
[05:20:53] <servus> alt-tab or winkey?
[05:20:58] <shazza> nope
[05:20:58] <servus> What Windows is this?
[05:20:58] <shazza> :(
[05:21:02] <shazza> i have 98
[05:21:11] <servus> ah
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[07:47:17] <Baastuul> Hi, Colourless.
[07:47:30] <Colourless> hi
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[09:45:11] <Fl00der> good morning
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[13:28:30] <servus> Everyone thinks that Andrea Previtera is working on Exult3D:P
[13:29:36] <sbx> Yeah I love those shadows!
[13:30:09] <sbx> Did he make those or did you???
[13:33:16] <servus> Everyone thinks that those screenshots are of Exult. That's my point :P
[13:35:09] <sbx> At least he isn't exploiting that. :)
[13:35:27] <sbx> I was surprised that Fabivator really works.
[13:35:38] <sbx> But are his arms a little skinny or is that my imagination.
[13:35:51] <sbx> Fabivatar*
[13:36:18] <sbx> or is that just the viewing angle*
[13:42:47] <servus> They are skinny because I meshsmoothed it before the screenshot :-)
[13:43:29] <servus> He's actually a bit wider than that
[13:46:03] <sbx> Will Fabio sue you?
[13:46:17] <servus> Who knows it's him? I'll put him in the credits as inspiration :P
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[14:35:02] <sbx> servus: Any new screenshots coming?
[14:35:31] <sbx> What I'd like to see is the Avatar in the scene. Might wait for Iolo to get modelled first.
[14:35:40] <servus> I am actually starting Iolo right now
[14:35:46] <servus> I haven't animated the Avatar
[14:35:55] <servus> I can only find the shape-numbers for the avatar looking south and north though!
[14:36:09] <servus> Can't find him looking west/east.
[14:36:23] <servus> So no, the Avatar is not actually in the game yet.
[14:36:36] <servus> Besides, this is only Avatar White-Male. There are 3 other Avatar skins I'd like to make
[14:37:55] <servus> Same with Iolo. Where are all the west/each animations?
[14:39:03] <sbx> Frames for west and east are mirrored versions of north and south.
[14:39:29] <sbx> Am I right? Did you look at Exult's shape browser?
[14:43:21] <servus> doesn't work in Windows
[14:43:27] <servus> I'm using another shape browser.
[14:43:54] <servus> I find it hard to believe that they'd rotate something 90'.
[14:44:50] <sbx> Doesn't work in Windows? I mean Exult's internal browser. Using Ctrl-C I think.
[14:44:59] <sbx> I mean Ctrl-B.
[14:58:38] <wjp> and exult studio should work just fine in windows as well
[15:01:02] <servus> Doesn't for me. ctrl-alt-t says "Editing mode!" but does nothing.
[15:01:27] <servus> What about the west-east frames then, wjp?
[15:01:37] <servus> Is it true? A 90' rotation? How do I tell?
[15:02:21] <servus> It says that iolo looking right is shape 465:48. He has 32 frames. So frame >= numframes = rotate(frame - numframe)?
[15:04:49] <wjp> I don't think it's rotated
[15:04:55] <wjp> flipped, probably
[15:05:35] <servus> It can't be. There are only frames for looking up, and looking down. Looking left and right must be a rotation or something I haven't found yet.
[15:05:42] <servus> Is this Colourless' territory?
[15:05:48] <wjp> flipped around x=y
[15:05:55] <wjp> not around one of the main coordinate axes
[15:06:06] <servus> Ultima Underworld 2 and Serpent Isle use the *same* portrait for Iolo
[15:06:12] <servus> Interesting.
[15:07:13] <wjp> but it could've been rotated as well
[15:07:17] <wjp> I'm really not sure
[15:07:47] <Colourless> [01:32] <servus> It says that iolo looking right is shape 465:48. He has 32 frames. So frame >= numframes = rotate(frame - numframe)?
[15:07:48] <Colourless> NO
[15:07:58] <Colourless> frame >= 32 = rotate(frame - 32)?
[15:08:41] <servus> Well then what? It looks to me like frames above 32 are the frames from 0-32, post-processed.
[15:09:35] <Colourless> if frame number is 32 or greater the xy coords are flipped
[15:10:24] <Colourless> in effect rotating the image
[15:11:03] <servus> Alright then. No need to get upset :P
[15:11:39] <Colourless> but strictly speaking it's just mirrored across the axis from top left to bottom right (so bottom left would become top right and so on)
[15:12:34] <servus> Yes, I see it now. thanks.
[15:12:46] <servus> I should probably just export frames 0-15 for NPCs.
[15:12:57] <servus> Then I do the rotation work on frames 16-63.
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[15:33:56] <sbx> hi Baastuul
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[16:27:59] <servus> Iolo=finished
[16:28:40] <servus> I think I'll use the same model as a fence-post for Spark.
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[16:59:56] <EsBee-Eks> servus: Let's see a picture of Iolo please.
[17:00:12] <EsBee-Eks> wha how did that get underlined
[17:00:48] <servus> It's on the forum
[17:01:31] <EsBee-Eks> I don't see it.
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[17:02:48] <servus> refresh the bottom image
[17:04:04] <EsBee-Eks> oh, that's sly
[17:04:13] <EsBee-Eks> nice work there
[17:04:41] <EsBee-Eks> who is he modelled after?
[17:05:58] <servus> Iolo
[17:06:11] <servus> I took the portrait from Underworld2/Serpent Isle and worked with it.
[17:32:47] <shazza> man
[17:32:49] <shazza> iolo looks awesome
[17:35:34] <EsBee-Eks> I expect to see them in the scene soon.
[17:37:36] <servus> Why would you expect that? ;-)
[17:37:49] <servus> It's gonna take some more infrastructure work to get reflections working
[17:37:55] <servus> Plus I've gotta animate them
[17:38:06] <servus> I'm currently doing other party members, then guards.
[17:50:29] <EsBee-Eks> My expectations must be too high then for the moment.
[17:50:35] <EsBee-Eks> Didn't you just want to complete that scene?
[17:50:43] <EsBee-Eks> you could hack them in or something
[17:58:18] <servus> yeah.
[17:58:20] <servus> i could :P
[17:58:32] <servus> I'm playing Counterstrike right now though :p
[18:01:19] <servus> Even if I get the characters in, there's no lightign :-)
[18:03:26] <EsBee-Eks> I never got around to playing CS but I played the HL demo.
[18:03:56] <EsBee-Eks> although I know it's completely different
[18:04:04] <servus> HL2's CS.
[18:08:08] <EsBee-Eks> them it must be amazingly different
[18:08:31] <EsBee-Eks> do you get vehicles? and there are explosive walls?
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[18:14:02] <Fl00der> good evening
[18:15:42] <servus> No it's the same
[18:16:22] <Fl00der> well, morning then :)
[18:17:56] <Fl00der> servus: how's the exult3D?
[18:22:48] <Fl00der> hmph
[18:25:45] <servus> doing human characters now, avatar and iolo done, dupre in the works, pic on phorum
[18:26:13] <Fl00der> nice
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[18:40:52] <Baastuul> Hi, Fingolfin.
[18:45:15] <EsBee-Eks> Hi, Fingolfin.
[18:45:22] <Fingolfin> hi
[18:49:35] <servus> I finally got my Dutch grammar book!
[18:52:17] <wjp> cool :-)
[18:52:21] <wjp> hi Max
[18:52:27] <Fl00der> hi
[18:52:40] <Fl00der> CSI Miami in eight mins -->
[18:54:10] <[KrusheR]> thanks to CSI i discovery how sexy the dead women are
[19:00:41] <EsBee-Eks> ...
[19:00:52] <servus> It's hard to learn Dutch because those smug Dutch speakers make you feel so bad :-)
[19:01:45] <EsBee-Eks> Who? wjp?
[19:02:00] <servus> Hehe.
[19:02:09] <servus> You know, "Them"
[19:02:50] * servus studies character layout.
[19:04:09] <EsBee-Eks> have fun with that, i have to go
[19:04:10] <EsBee-Eks> bye
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[19:06:52] * Fingolfin doesn't know who "them" are, but most dutch folks he knows on IRC are very nice people
[19:06:59] <Fingolfin> even wjp, I guess ;-)
[19:07:16] <wjp> 'even'? :-)
[19:08:01] <Fingolfin> erhm... did I say "even" ? Of course I meant: "especially"... yeah, that's what I meant... now just put that big stick away, you could hurt somebody with it
[19:08:26] <wjp> ;-)
[19:09:21] <servus> See what I mean? *rubs the back of his head*
[19:09:36] * Fingolfin needs to prepare a talk for monday (and make a cake, so people are happy while I give the talk, and behave nicely :-)
[19:10:22] <wjp> cakes work nicely for that :-)
[19:10:54] <servus> 3D avatar.
[19:11:03] <Fingolfin> about some hyperbolic geometry stuff. We are proving Mostow's rigidity theorem (for n>=3, n-dim. compact, oriented, connected surfaces essentially have only one hyperbolic structure).
[19:11:09] <servus> Well wasn't that a non sequitur
[19:11:16] <Fingolfin> the problem is, my group of four people has four 1.5 hour talks to prove this
[19:11:28] <Fingolfin> actually, I think we'd need about 12-16 to do it properly... =)
[19:12:14] <Fingolfin> so now I have to come up with a way to keep all relevant information, and present it so that people understand what is going on, w/o leaving out too much of the important details, in less than half the time I'd like to have for it.......
[19:12:26] <Fingolfin> <sigh>
[19:12:38] <Fingolfin> at least I can draw some nice pictures
[19:12:41] <Fingolfin> and make a good cake =)
[19:18:31] <servus> The avatar's triangles are inverted. Why me oh lord?
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[20:49:37] <servus> Aligning objects... what a pain.
[20:49:46] <servus> At least I've made it as non-painful as possible
[21:57:47] <Fisu> Is a blank window, that refuses to shut down without "kill -9" a normal behaviour from Exult when no game datas are installed (I used Gentoo portage to get Exult)?
[21:58:42] <Fisu> http://thewatcher.homelinux.org/exult.txt <- Here is what Exult says when starting up.
[21:59:26] <servus> You actually got it to compile with g++ 3.4?
[21:59:42] <Fisu> Apparently, yes
[22:00:24] <Fisu> say, when the data dir is "/usr/share/games/exult", should I have a zip with contents of STATIC in there, or the contents of STATIC there or a subdir with the name STATIC ?
[22:00:54] <servus> I don't know about the problem. Have you tried running it under gdb, doing a ctrl-c to break into the debugger, and doing a bt? That might be helpful for the developers.
[22:01:32] <Fisu> I tried to run it under gdb, but got no meaningful results (to me)
[22:02:42] <Fisu> backtrace data now appended at the end of the above given exult.txt
[22:02:43] <servus> Did you break into gdb and do a backtrace?
[22:03:36] <servus> Weird.
[22:04:00] <servus> I'll hand this one to wjp ;-)
[22:04:41] <Fisu> It might just be that the Gentoo exult ebuild maintainer has just screwed up. I'l try to compile Exult manually
[22:07:42] <servus> Ahhh, with 3.4. Heh Heh Heh.
[22:07:57] <servus> Actually can you give me a gcc --version, out of curiosity?
[22:08:18] <Fisu> It was there in the .txt
[22:08:42] <servus> That's the compiler, not your local gcc version perse.
[22:09:03] <Fisu> gcc (GCC) 3.4.3 (Gentoo Linux 3.4.3, ssp-3.4.3-0, pie-8.7.6.6)
[22:09:06] <Fisu> I don't see any difference.
[22:09:10] <servus> Alright
[22:09:20] <servus> Just trying to tie up loose ends:-)
[22:09:23] <servus> Yes, try compiling it yourself.
[22:09:53] <Fisu> it is make'ing it right now.
[22:11:02] <servus> Great.
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[22:20:57] <wjp> Fisu: no, that's not normal behaviour; it should tell you to setup the paths to the u7 data files in exult.cfg
[22:23:42] <Fisu> Well almost the same results with the one compiled with ./configure && make. http://thewatcher.homelinux.org/exult2.txt
[22:24:20] <Fisu> Where does Exult need libmikmod anyway?
[22:24:32] <wjp> what's in /usr/share/games/exult ?
[22:24:53] <wjp> did exult create a ~/.exult.cfg ?
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[22:25:16] <Fisu> a couple of .flx files the portage ebuild installed and subdir music with digital music
[22:26:58] <Fisu> yes
[22:27:06] <Fisu> it has empty dirs 'blackgate' and 'serpentisle'
[22:30:03] <wjp> hm
[22:30:24] <wjp> try setting audio/enabled to no
[22:31:32] <Fisu> Where? (no confs)
[22:31:56] <wjp> http://exult.sourceforge.net/docs.php#exult_config
[22:33:15] <Fisu> Though I'm mainly interested in getting Exult to run on my Zaurus so debugging this problem on my main computer isn't so important. Unless you could use the information on why its behaving like this on my setup.
[22:33:20] <Fisu> I'l try it
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[22:35:10] <Baastuul> Hi, claviola.
[22:35:46] <claviola> hey there
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[22:39:33] <Fisu> wjp: now with a proper exult.conf it produced a backtrace like this: http://thewatcher.homelinux.org/exult3.txt
[22:41:55] <Fisu> I still don't understand where Exult needs libmikmod.
[22:46:47] <wjp> SDL_mixer
[22:47:12] <wjp> did you set audio/enabled to no?
[22:49:58] <Fisu> yes
[22:50:15] <Fisu> <audio> <enabled> no </enabled>
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[22:52:15] <wjp> hm, it really shouldn't be calling Mix_OpenAudio then
[22:52:28] <Fisu> I placed exult.conf at ~/.exult/
[22:52:33] <wjp> eh?
[22:52:39] <wjp> ~/.exult.cfg
[22:52:57] <Fisu> whops, I meant exult.cfg
[22:53:11] <Fisu> fisu@Powercomp ~/.exult $ ls
[22:53:12] <Fisu> blackgate exult.cfg serpentisle
[22:53:22] <wjp> and as I said, ~/.exult/exult.cfg is wrong; it has to be ~/.exult.cfg
[22:54:51] <Fisu> fisu@Powercomp ~ $ ls .exult.cfg
[22:54:51] <Fisu> .exult.cfg
[22:55:52] <Fisu> and sound is not enabled.
[22:55:59] <Fisu> still the same bt
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[22:56:35] <Baastuul> Hi, Matt_O.
[22:56:51] <Matt_O> Baastuul!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[22:56:57] <Baastuul> http://www.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~morph/Transformer/ <- Heh, this is kind of weird. :p
[22:58:24] <Fl00der> :)
[23:11:30] --> Kirben has joined #exult
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[23:11:44] <Baastuul> Harro, harro.
[23:23:34] --> servus has joined #exult
[23:26:18] <servus> Stupid power.
[23:26:29] <servus> MSVC7 has exception handling in C? 8-|
[23:32:29] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC ("42")
[23:51:29] <servus> I wish someone else could animate the avatar... Oh well. at least I only have 15 frames to massacre.