#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 8 Mar 2003 (GMT)

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[00:26:42] <wjp> *yawn*.. I should go
[00:26:43] <wjp> g'night
[00:26:54] <Fingolfin> bye
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[00:50:31] <RonC> hi
[00:50:35] <armav> hi
[00:50:59] <RonC> anyone here know exult studio fairly well?
[00:51:25] <RonC> what's the button to increase on the Z axis?
[00:51:45] <RonC> shouldn't say button.... keyboard shortcut....
[00:53:22] <RonC> well, I guess everyones away :P
[00:54:22] <armav> i am here
[00:54:42] <armav> but i know nothing about exult studio :)
[00:55:02] <RonC> ah :)
[00:55:26] <RonC> I hope to start remapping something soon... take a guess if you want :)
[00:55:49] <armav> ultima 4?
[00:55:56] <RonC> But, right now, I'm just refreshing on the basics....
[00:56:14] <RonC> Nah, I might want to do some work on Serpent Isle.
[00:56:30] <RonC> Good guess though :)
[00:56:40] <armav> what parts are you going to change?
[00:57:34] <RonC> I've been rummaging through the NPC's normally killed by the Halocaust.
[00:57:53] <RonC> Probably restoring the original storyline to some extent.
[00:58:22] <RonC> I still don't even know if it's completely possible as of yet...
[01:00:16] <RonC> I know there is already someone who made a project... but, I'm not sure he will actually go through with it due to the fact he hasn't released any information what so ever...
[01:00:25] <RonC> or making a project
[01:01:51] <armav> but there's the french translation of si
[01:02:03] <RonC> Oh, I'm not talking about that.
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[01:03:21] <RonC> Haven't you read http://exult.sourceforge.net/forum/read.php?f=1&i=9814&t=9814 ?
[01:05:14] <armav> oic
[01:05:25] <RonC> Oh well, I'll be in and out, I have work to do...
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[02:09:29] <RonC-working> anyone know how to get ucc to work with ES?
[02:10:49] <RonC-working> for now i'll just use ucc -o usecode usecode.uc.... but does anyone know who can anwser my questions?
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[02:44:35] <Curryous> Anybody around?
[02:55:30] <Curryous> Well.. I got a question for the Exult team, though most likely Artaxerxes...
[02:57:05] <Curryous> At how many different locations is the error with Dupre, so that his name can't be clicked found? I discovered an error in the conversations with Jaana and Katrina and made a little patch that would fix those errors up. Any other conversations where this happens?
[02:59:14] <Curryous> I thought since I've benefited so much from you guys hard work, the least I could do was remove an item from your Feature Request's list
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[03:21:06] <Curryous> oh yeah, one more question is the Avatar's companions's names, like when you train and click em' stored in the usecode or hidden somewhere else?
[03:21:16] <Curryous> thanks for your time.
[03:22:47] <Curryous> actually I think I answered my first question... I think I got all the Dupre changes... I just searched the whole usecode file
[03:23:16] <Curryous> the character names must be stores somewhere else though...
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[03:34:22] <RonC-working> night
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[03:44:03] <Curryous> just curious cause it kind of bothered me constantly seeing Dupre greeted as Dupré, but then called Dupre, when I click em'.
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[03:47:19] <Darke> Hi.
[03:47:32] <Curryous> heya, hows it going?
[03:48:02] <Darke> I think it might depend, since I remember seeing some of the names stored literally in usecode, others I think are extracted from the name associated with the person. I'd have to look at the usecode again to be sure.
[03:48:07] <Darke> Not too bad.
[03:49:18] <Curryous> The team translating BG to French sure did a pretty shoddy job though...
[04:05:36] <Darke> Curious. Have you checked out any other origin games translated to french? I believe the same translation team for the each language did the job for most of Origin's games. I definately know in the case of the spanish ones.
[04:06:56] <Curryous> Can't say I have actually. My French is pretty poor, but examples like Dupre are pretty shoddy.
[04:17:20] <Curryous> well gotta go, have a good one
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[04:30:04] <Yuv422> hi guys
[04:30:15] <Darke> Hiya.
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[05:10:16] <RonC> hi
[05:10:30] <Yuv422> hey
[05:10:43] <`daniel> Hello
[05:10:54] <Darke> Greetings.
[05:11:18] <`daniel> wow, we have such a wonderful variety of greetings
[05:11:29] <Yuv422> :)
[05:12:12] <RonC> :) Well, I know for a fact many of us have never crossed paths before... I'm what you might call an Exult Studio "Enthusiast" :)
[05:12:39] <Yuv422> or a "world builder"?
[05:14:27] <RonC> Kind of :)
[05:14:43] <RonC> I know Perl very well.
[05:15:14] <Yuv422> pregex is all I know of perl. ;)
[05:17:31] <`daniel> Making maps is cool
[05:17:38] <`daniel> I would love to make my own ultima 7 world
[05:18:17] <`daniel> but i would leave like the dialouge and scripting up to everyone else :P
[05:18:32] <`daniel> me just wants to place sprites and make neat houses
[05:33:11] <Matt_O> hi fellows
[05:36:08] <Yuv422> hi
[05:37:06] <`daniel> hello matt
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[08:06:28] <MageWolf1> hellohellohello :)
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[08:08:35] <Yuv422> hi
[08:09:01] <Darke> 'ello.
[08:09:23] <ShadwChsr> question... any thoughts on how to do cursor->object? :)
[08:09:37] <ShadwChsr> I heard "cast a ray" but thats about it :P
[08:43:23] <Darke> No idea, sorry.
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[11:27:27] <wjp> hi
[11:47:45] <Darke> Hi.
[11:49:21] <Yuv422> I don't know if I should love or hate C++ method overloading.
[11:49:53] <wjp> if used properly it's quite useful
[11:50:14] <wjp> it has some interesting pitfalls, though :-)
[11:50:35] <Yuv422> Is it considered bad form to overload the constructor?
[11:50:49] <wjp> no
[11:52:00] <wjp> this is probably even the most common use of overloading
[11:53:10] <Yuv422> I've been learning C++ from this page. http://www.4p8.com/eric.brasseur/cppcen.html
[11:54:11] <Yuv422> It's seems to be a good summary of the C++ extenions. From a C programmers point of view. :)
[11:55:33] <wjp> ugh... the example of overloading (#13) is not a particularly good one :-)
[11:56:15] <Yuv422> why's that?
[11:56:36] <wjp> usually you want functions with the same name to do the same thing
[11:56:38] <Yuv422> isn't that method overloading?
[11:56:50] <Yuv422> ah yeah I see that now :)
[11:57:01] <Yuv422> yeah that would be confusing.
[11:57:47] <Yuv422> I don't like the force pass by reference operator though. ;)
[11:58:13] <Yuv422> as the only indication of that happening is in the function definition.
[11:58:38] <wjp> the declaration too
[11:58:54] <Yuv422> do you need an & there too?
[11:59:16] <wjp> if you use it in the definition you also need to in the declaration, yes
[11:59:40] <Yuv422> hmm ah k that sounds better. :)
[12:00:03] <Yuv422> I don;t think that is the case in php though :(
[12:00:15] <wjp> that would be bad
[12:00:15] <Yuv422> now that is an evil language.
[12:00:31] <wjp> php is suffering from too many added features
[12:01:51] <wjp> (I seem to remember that passing by reference was only recently added, anyway)
[12:02:53] <Yuv422> quite possibly.
[12:05:04] <Yuv422> I've got C, C++ and ObjC talking in project builder now.
[12:05:25] <Yuv422> but linking the SDL framework takes about 4 seconds. :(
[12:06:43] <Yuv422> I'm just working on some classes to handle the U6 file types. lzw decompression, shapes, lib_32, lib_16 etc.
[12:06:56] <wjp> cool :-)
[12:07:30] <Yuv422> I might use the exult sudo-xml config system too. :)
[12:07:46] <Yuv422> is it fairly modular?
[12:07:52] <wjp> pentagram's is slightly more functional
[12:07:57] <Yuv422> ah k
[12:08:07] <wjp> yeah, it's pretty much self-contained
[12:08:18] <Yuv422> I think I should setup a sf project too. :)
[12:08:30] <wjp> you may need to rewrite the file I/O functions as they use U7/U8's file I/O classes
[12:08:37] <wjp> (but that shouldn't be too hard :-) )
[12:09:00] <wjp> you need to read/write a file into/from a std::string
[12:09:11] <Yuv422> righto I've got a class wrapping the FILE * functions.
[12:09:13] <Yuv422> ah k
[12:09:30] <Yuv422> I haven't looking into the string stuff yet.
[12:09:38] <Yuv422> looking == looked
[12:09:58] <wjp> very useful class, string. Much more flexible than using char*'s
[12:10:30] <Yuv422> I've been spoilt with the truly dynamic nature of objective-C's NSString class. :)
[12:10:59] <wjp> how dynamic is truly dynamic? :-)
[12:11:07] <Yuv422> yeah everything is char * ATM ;) I should probably change that now before it becomes to hard to change.
[12:11:22] <Yuv422> any object can call any method on an object.
[12:11:36] <Yuv422> you can pass an object as a generic id
[12:11:52] <Yuv422> objects can accept or proxy method calls for other objects.
[12:12:00] <Yuv422> lots of cool stuff.
[12:12:10] <Yuv422> objects can pose as other classes.
[12:12:15] <wjp> I should probably read up on some objC sometime
[12:12:39] <Yuv422> there's not much too it really. that's part of it's charm.
[12:12:47] <Yuv422> it sits nicely on C
[12:13:27] <Yuv422> but it does have a run time env that is a bit costly.
[12:15:51] <Yuv422> in C++ does the overloaded method have to have the same number of arguments as the base method?
[12:15:58] <wjp> no
[12:16:02] <Yuv422> :)
[12:16:15] <wjp> there's no real 'base method', btw
[12:16:33] <Yuv422> right
[12:17:49] <wjp> unless maybe you're overloading a function of a parent class or something :-)
[12:18:30] <Yuv422> how would you call the parent method inside the overloaded subclass method?
[12:19:00] <wjp> parentclass::methodname(args)
[12:19:11] <wjp> ;
[12:19:15] <Yuv422> right
[12:20:44] <Yuv422> should I use this->method for same class method calls?
[12:21:08] <Yuv422> or can I do it with the namespace thing?
[12:21:13] <wjp> if you want to; but the 'this->' is not necessary
[12:21:41] <wjp> just use 'othermethod();'
[12:22:34] <Yuv422> what would happen if that was a function name outside the class but within the same file?
[12:22:57] <wjp> it would call it
[12:23:23] <Yuv422> even if a class method of the same name was present?
[12:24:04] <wjp> hmm... good question
[12:24:24] <wjp> I think the class method would take precedence
[12:24:25] <wjp> but I'm not sure
[12:24:39] <Yuv422> :)
[12:24:45] <wjp> Darke: any idea?
[12:25:49] <Yuv422> hehe maybe I should stick with this->
[12:26:12] <Yuv422> unless that's a preformace hit. But I can't see that it would be.
[12:28:11] <Yuv422> what about direct access to instance variables? I was taught to only allow access through method calls.
[12:28:54] <wjp> just wrote a quick test program, and the class method takes precedence (with gcc 3.2 anyway)
[12:29:24] <Yuv422> that makes sence.
[12:29:25] <wjp> access through method calls is generally more modular
[12:29:34] <Yuv422> true
[12:31:20] <Yuv422> do you think people want a faithfull U6 conversion or one with new features like full screen map window etc?
[12:31:40] <wjp> yes and yes :-)
[12:31:49] <Darke> Class method always takes precidence.
[12:31:50] <Darke> Period.
[12:32:02] <wjp> right, that's what I thought :-)
[12:32:08] <Darke> You can force the global method to be used by prepending with ::
[12:32:21] <Yuv422> ah k
[12:32:27] <Darke> That is using ::log() to call the global log rather then Math::log() for a theoritcal math class.
[12:32:47] <wjp> there'll always be people who want a strictly faithful conversion, and people who like added features
[12:33:27] <Yuv422> I've yet to see how close the three game engines are.
[12:33:52] <Yuv422> hopefully martian dreams and savage aren't to far removed from U6.. ;)
[12:34:55] <Yuv422> most visual elements appear to come out of the data files which is nice.
[12:36:12] <Yuv422> including the time of day indicator, all the mouse icons the inventry graphics etc. :)
[12:36:41] <Kirben> A faithful ultima 6 engine, with options new features would be great. Would be good to see all of the games redone eventually...
[12:36:51] <Kirben> optional I mean
[12:37:58] <Yuv422> It shouldn't be too hard to accomodate both if I plan for it early on. ;) right... *g*
[12:38:17] <Kirben> I'm still trying to hunt down copy of Ultima Collection and other U6 games are even rarer...
[12:38:47] <wjp> you don't have the UC?
[12:38:52] <Yuv422> have you been following the post in the forum?
[12:39:12] <Kirben> No, I don't think it was ever released over here, outside of Ultima 9: Dragon Edition.
[12:39:24] <wjp> ah
[12:39:25] <Yuv422> I have an original U6 :)
[12:39:41] <Kirben> which post ?
[12:39:49] <Yuv422> with orb of moon gemstone and map :)
[12:40:02] * wjp kicks Yuv422. Don't rub it in ;-)
[12:40:28] <Yuv422> but I don't have the original U7 on the crappy CD version. :(
[12:40:32] <Yuv422> with pdf docs :(
[12:40:50] <Kirben> Been looking out for games on ebay but someone else always seem to manage to grab it at last minute/second.
[12:41:10] <wjp> I have 'The Complete U7' CD, with a BG cloth map and an SI paper map
[12:41:15] <Kirben> pdf docs aren't bad if they are well done and color.
[12:41:15] <wjp> no original U6 :/
[12:41:55] <Yuv422> my complete U7 only has the CD :(
[12:42:14] <Yuv422> the pdf maps aren't even in colour.
[12:42:52] <wjp> Kirben: I have an 'extra' Dragon Edition (with a UC included, obviously) (long story...), but shipping it to .au would probably be quite expensive :/
[12:43:16] <Kirben> oh, wonder if anyone ever released better version of docs. Ultima 1-6 docs have been really redone well by dragons.
[12:43:30] <wjp> yeah, Micro Dragon's doc project, IIRC
[12:44:20] <Kirben> Yes, shipping anything large can be expensive even locally.
[12:44:36] <Kirben> I will find copy to buy eventually.
[12:44:46] <Yuv422> damn australia being so far from everyware. ;)
[12:45:06] * wjp checks hostmask
[12:45:10] <wjp> ah, you're .au too :-)
[12:45:39] <Yuv422> I am still kicking myself for only buying martian dreams when I had the chance to get both worlds of ultima for $15 each in a bargin bin sale. :(
[12:45:43] <Yuv422> yup
[12:46:06] <wjp> you did _what_?! :-)
[12:46:38] <wjp> hmm... an U6 copy on ebay.co.uk for only 3 pounds
[12:46:41] <wjp> with 4 hours left
[12:47:06] <wjp> ack, only ships to UK
[12:49:07] <wjp> hey.. didn't know they had an ebay.nl too
[12:50:24] <wjp> of course .nl is way too small for them to actually have any ultima games :-)
[12:50:37] <Yuv422> you never know?
[12:50:42] <Yuv422> :)
[12:50:44] <wjp> I checked :-)
[12:51:45] <Kirben> Too many old games on 5.25 disk only on ebay, still trying to hunt down some LA adventures too.
[12:54:57] <wjp> hmm... ebay.de has an original U6 with map + moonstone... and this one does ship to the rest of europe
[12:55:07] <wjp> 4Eur currently...
[12:55:25] <Yuv422> my U6 disks are 5.25
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[12:55:31] <wjp> this one's too
[12:55:43] <Curryous> heya
[12:55:49] <wjp> of course, I already have three copies of U6 on UC CD's, so that's not really a problem :-)
[12:55:51] <wjp> hi
[12:55:58] <Yuv422> I bet they don't anymore. assuming I could find a drive to read them on. ;)
[12:56:05] <Yuv422> +work
[12:56:12] <Yuv422> hey
[12:58:06] <Curryous> Savage Empire was released on a 7 Cities of Gold cd, you can usually get it for like 5 bucks. Comes with U7 too
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[13:00:14] <Curryous> in fact heres savage and about 6 other Origin games on CD for 11 bucks http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3404385494&category=182
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[13:03:39] <wjp> hi
[13:04:22] <Fingolfin> hi
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[13:06:02] <Curryous> I created a little patch that fixes up the unclickable works in BG-French
[13:06:45] <wjp> wow, what a crowd in here :-)
[13:07:06] <wjp> unclickable words?
[13:08:29] <Fingolfin> full house :-)
[13:08:59] <Curryous> In BG-French, theres a bug where in 2 conversations, you can't click on Dupré's name. You see it but you can't click it because the translators used Dupre for one case, and Dupré for the next.
[13:09:07] <wjp> oops :-)
[13:10:10] <Curryous> so my making everything say Dupré, you can then get at the extra conversations...
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[13:33:04] <Curryous> want me to just send you the patch, then anyone interested can just download it off the Exult page?
[13:34:11] <armav> what patch?
[13:35:31] <Curryous> A patch that fixes an annoying usecode error in BG-French
[13:36:50] <armav> why not send it to the bg-si team?
[13:37:13] <armav> sorry, i mean si-french :)
[13:45:09] <Curryous> This is more of a bug fix then anything though...
[13:45:30] <wjp> in what form do you have the patch?
[13:46:05] <Curryous> What form do you want it?
[13:46:15] <wjp> not sure :-)
[13:46:55] <wjp> our current usecode-bugs file has a diff of the disassembly
[13:47:07] <Curryous> Probably the smallest method would be to just include the 2 editted and compiled usecode files. Anybody could just rip it together.
[13:47:46] <Curryous> I think that would be the most convenient, way, though legality is of course an issue
[13:48:46] <Curryous> What I was thinking, was it would sure be neat if there was a page where people could send in compiled usecode files with a text describing the changes and people could download those
[13:49:16] <Curryous> I don't mean the whole usecode, but just the section that was changed
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[14:13:59] <Colourless> hi
[14:15:08] <Yuv422> hi colourless
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[14:16:20] <Yuv422> hmm the U6 conversation format looks fairly straight forward. :)
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[14:26:24] <Curryous> yo
[14:31:25] <Yuv422> right, enough work for today. I'm off to bed.
[14:31:30] <Yuv422> cya guys
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[16:57:59] <wjp> hi
[16:59:00] <Nadir> hi
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[17:24:43] <RonC> good morning
[17:24:49] <wjp> hi
[17:25:26] <RonC> I guess that's a very ignorant statement.... hi.
[17:25:47] <wjp> hm?
[17:26:08] <RonC> Well, it's wrong to assume it's morning in Europe or Asia :)
[17:26:24] <wjp> ah :-)
[17:26:27] <wjp> yes, it's evening here
[17:26:45] <RonC> Just creating some shapes...
[17:27:23] <RonC> I love ES, complements to anyone who worked on it.
[17:28:02] <wjp> be sure to tell Jeff if you have any suggestions
[17:29:30] <RonC> Well, one thing I'd like to do is copy shapes from one game to another without saving and re-entering the attributes.... but, that might bring up some legal issues I imagine.
[17:29:38] * Darke waves and notes that it *is* morning here, 3:30am in the morning, but still... *grin*
[17:29:44] <RonC> :)
[17:30:49] <RonC> The reasone being i'm trying to make a (downwards) stairwell in BG
[17:31:22] <RonC> I've been able to do alot with ES in only a few days worth of use.
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[18:58:54] <Fingolfin> the recent valgrind-aided bug fixes in ScummVm makes me wonder if anybody ever run Exult through valgrind?
[18:59:34] <wjp> yeah, I have, actually
[18:59:36] <wjp> long time ago, though
[18:59:40] <RonC> Can't say I have.
[18:59:59] <wjp> there were a couple of uninitialized values which I fixed, but not much else, IIRC
[19:23:52] <Fingolfin> good...
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[22:36:23] <wjp> hi again
[22:37:19] <Matt_O> wjp!
[22:37:33] <wjp> Matt_O! :-)
[22:37:37] <Matt_O> valgrind?
[22:37:45] <Matt_O> is that some bug checker?
[22:38:05] <wjp> ==10334== Memcheck, a.k.a. Valgrind, a memory error detector for x86-linux.
[22:38:45] <armav> does anyone know how to use gdb?
[22:39:00] * wjp nods
[22:39:01] <Fingolfin> yes
[22:39:05] <armav> i'm either too stupid to use it, or the windows version has a bug
[22:39:06] <wjp> (as long as you don't want to do fancy stuff :-) )
[22:39:06] <Fingolfin> "someone" does <g>
[22:39:13] <armav> i suspect the former to be the case
[22:39:36] <wjp> Fingolfin: I'm also pretty sure there are several of those someones here :-)
[22:39:46] <Fingolfin> yes yes
[22:39:46] <armav> my problem is that it never breaks at the source lines where i set the breakpoints
[22:40:11] <Fingolfin> there exists a definite someone with property "knows how to use gdb" and location "#exult"
[22:40:21] <wjp> it doesn't break at all or it breaks somewhere else?
[22:40:24] <Fingolfin> armav: happens if you have optimization on
[22:40:32] <Matt_O> armav: try stripping all of the carriage returns out of the source files, that usually is what causes that line break problem
[22:40:33] <armav> oic
[22:40:36] <wjp> if the latter, see Fingolfin's comment :-)
[22:40:47] <Matt_O> (at least for me)
[22:40:59] <armav> wjp: it breaks somewhere else
[22:41:12] <Fingolfin> armav: near it? or someplace completly different?
[22:41:30] <armav> about 100 lines later
[22:41:36] <armav> or maybe 50
[22:41:42] <wjp> in the same function?
[22:41:48] <armav> no :(
[22:42:03] <wjp> in a function called by or calling the function you wanted to break in?
[22:42:10] <armav> what do you mean by "stripping all of the carriage returns"?
[22:42:34] <armav> you mean replacing 0xd 0xa with 0xd?
[22:42:37] <wjp> probably that gdb can mis-calculate the line number if it gets confused by different types of line endings?
[22:42:49] <wjp> (although I've never seen that myself; but I haven't used gdb on windows)
[22:43:23] <armav> i'll try running the source file through dos2unix before compiling it
[22:43:48] <armav> i haven't enabled optimizations on, but maybe that's automatic
[22:43:52] <armav> *-on
[22:44:05] <Matt_O> armav: I'm not sure how it is for gdb for windows
[22:44:23] <Matt_O> but gdb for linux.. doesn't like source files that have mostly 0xa's and then a few lines ending in 0xd 0xa .. it really throws it off
[22:46:26] <armav> another question
[22:46:42] <armav> is there an open-source patcher for binary files
[22:46:44] <armav> ?
[22:47:23] <armav> one that can take parameters, e.g. if you want to replace all bytes at certain locations in a file with a user-supplied byte value
[22:47:40] <wjp> perl? :-)
[22:48:08] <armav> good idea, actually
[22:48:15] <armav> but i was thinking of something more lightweight
[22:48:18] <wjp> I've seen open-source binary patches, but not one with parameters
[22:48:25] <wjp> s/patches/patchers/
[23:04:11] <armav> you were right
[23:04:23] <armav> the windows line breaks seem to be the problem
[23:17:37] <Matt_O> ah ha!
[23:18:43] <wjp> nice catch :-)
[23:18:49] <wjp> never would've thought of that
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[23:35:31] <wjp> time to go; g'night
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