#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 8 Mar 2010 (GMT)

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[00:51:00] <Dominus> I'll have to go to bed soon and not touch anything in the makefiles anymore - not working concentrated enough. sorry
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[12:09:18] <Dominus> writing the docs for the new exult.cfg locations is not the nicest job :)
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[12:46:33] <Colourless> perhaps a silly idea, in the settings section of the exult menu we could display where the exult.cfg file its using is actually located just in case people can't find it
[12:48:28] <Dominus> not that sily of an idea, it would perhaps also be useful for the stdout to display this. Dosbox does that for its conf and that has proven to be useful
[12:54:47] <Dominus> I have writers blockage on writing down the new default locations for savegames and stuff in user friendly words :)
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[13:06:51] <Colourless> there is a reason why i'm not a docs person. Coming up with 'good' words to express things is not something i do well
[13:08:16] <Dominus> I'm not sure I'm the best person for this either, apart from the general willingness to do it :)
[13:08:59] <Dominus> I always wonder whether it is readable by non techie persons, mostly I guess not fully :)
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[19:04:17] <Dominus> marzo, could you take a look at yesterday's log, because of the opengl scaler error/fix for Mac PPC
[19:04:25] <Dominus> hi Fingolfin
[19:09:16] <Fingolfin> hi
[19:10:16] <Dominus> Fingolfin: if you care to have a quick test drive, I tried my hands on a static snapshot of Exult http://www.badongo.com/file/21072003
[19:11:47] <Dominus> I copied makefile stuff from ScummVM to make dmg and wonder how or if to declare this copy. Any thoughts? (especially since it is most likely your makefile magic)
[19:19:21] <Marzo> Dominus: can you try this patch to see if it solves the ppc problem? http://pastebin.com/Aw4HppkU
[19:20:30] <Dominus> yes, will try, need a bit time to start my VM and test that
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[19:27:27] <Malignant_Manor> Are the Exult bundle and compiled ES reading the same cfg file?
[19:27:52] <Dominus> they should
[19:28:09] <Malignant_Manor> It seems strange that Brandon could run a game in Exult but Exult studio could not find any games.
[19:28:40] <Dominus> since it (starting of ES by going into mapedit mode) works if I run the binary from inside the bundle
[19:28:57] <Dominus> just not when starting Exult by executing the bundle
[19:29:37] <Malignant_Manor> Well, Exult needs additional path data to find out where to run Exult Studio.
[19:30:06] <Malignant_Manor> It just calls it like it is in the same directory or part of the environmental path.
[19:30:57] <Dominus> it's just strange
[19:31:49] <Malignant_Manor> Executing: exult_studio -x c:/damnit/data -g blackgate &
[19:33:14] <Dominus> marzo, that seems to work, I used the shortcut of just running make in /shapes and it didn't stop, running now the whole make to see whether it actually runs the scaler
[19:46:05] <Dominus> Malignant_Manor: it's really strange. I can see on the console that they (exult.app and exult.binary) are executing the exact same command for starting ES, just with Exult.app it can't find it and with the binary it does
[19:46:26] <Dominus> also when I start ES seperately it connects fine to Exult.app
[19:47:59] <Malignant_Manor> Is Exult Studio in the bin folder?
[19:51:31] <Dominus> it is in the path
[19:51:59] <Dominus> just maybe the app bundle is ignoring the path set in .profile
[19:52:15] <Malignant_Manor> I'm testing adding a path for the cheat command for where to call Exult Studio.
[19:53:33] <Dominus> marzo, the opengl scaler *seems* to work, just the ppc version has enormous problems display problems in the VM. But apparently it works fine on real PPC machines otherwise the two testers on the Forum would have screamed already :)
[19:54:29] <Dominus> the intel build displays fine in the VM :)
[19:57:12] <Malignant_Manor> Having an Exult Studio path would help in using program files/common files so that Exult Studio could be installed to a separate directory.
[19:57:37] <Dominus> no more documentation tasks, please!!!!!
[19:57:39] <Dominus> :)
[19:58:57] <Malignant_Manor> Also, exultmsg.txt should be in Exult Studio installer. It's the only file not included that is needed to run Exult Studio. Plus it is only 3,122 bytes.
[20:00:19] <Dominus> hmm, it comes with the Exult installer, doesn't it?
[20:00:33] <Malignant_Manor> Yes.
[20:00:46] <Dominus> and ES can't run without Exult anyway
[20:00:53] <Malignant_Manor> Yes it can.
[20:01:04] <Dominus> yeah but it is kind of useless :)
[20:01:09] <Dominus> but I see your point
[20:01:24] <Dominus> what was the reason for ES needing that file again?
[20:01:32] <Malignant_Manor> I have no idea.
[20:01:36] <Dominus> :)
[20:01:38] <Malignant_Manor> It shouldn't even be used.
[20:01:56] <Malignant_Manor> I think I asked a couple days ago in irc but got no answer.
[20:02:13] <Dominus> grrr!!! I deleted some part of the docs I'm updating and I must have deleted it a couple of hours ago...
[20:04:01] <Malignant_Manor> Executing: ./exult_studio -xc:/test/data -g blackgate &
[20:04:56] <Dominus> ?
[20:05:55] <Malignant_Manor> Executing: c:/test/exult_studio -xc:/test/data -g blackgate &
[20:06:10] <Malignant_Manor> My exult_studio path is working.
[20:07:14] <Dominus> :)
[20:08:46] <Malignant_Manor> Try this http://pastebin.com/epj2UBVs.
[20:09:14] <Malignant_Manor> See if you can get Exult Studio to launch from Exult if they aren't in the same directory.
[20:12:24] <Dominus> maybe later
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[20:12:38] <Dominus> right now I'm busy with getting the docs sorted out
[20:12:55] <Dominus> worked on it and need to finish it :)
[20:13:51] <Dominus> but that'S a small patch :)
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[20:34:08] <Malignant_Manor> exultmsg.txt is used for Setup_text and Setup_item_names
[20:54:22] <Dominus> so, done!
[20:55:01] <Dominus> updated documentation with the new way exult does handle path. someone might want to look at it
[20:55:14] <Dominus> also added the snapshot to the downloads page
[20:57:35] <Dominus> the os x snapshot :)
[21:07:23] <Malignant_Manor> It seems weird, but common files/exult would only contain exultmsg.txt if used.
[21:08:19] <Dominus> if used?
[21:11:34] <Dominus> Malignant_Manor: tried your patch and it works fine with the app bundle
[21:19:11] <Dominus> Malignant_Manor: your directx++ patch adds a configuration.h file that is not present
[21:20:59] <Malignant_Manor> It gives a compile error?
[21:22:52] <Dominus> yes because you include +#include "Configuration.h" in imagewin.cc
[21:23:41] <wjp> we have conf/Configuration.h
[21:24:30] <Malignant_Manor> it should be able to find it just fine.
[21:24:51] <Dominus> nope, needed the conf/configuration.h to proceed
[21:25:51] <Malignant_Manor> I don't know why your compiler needs it for one and not utils.h for example.
[21:26:08] <Dominus> me neither :)
[21:27:50] <Malignant_Manor> No other file has it specified that way.
[21:28:29] <Malignant_Manor> Maybe the function should move to gamewin
[21:29:06] <Malignant_Manor> That seems to be where a large chunk of functions requiring configuration.h
[21:29:12] <Dominus> strange and it works for other files that include it
[21:29:14] <Malignant_Manor> are at
[21:29:34] <Malignant_Manor> You and your silly Mac
[21:30:32] <Dominus> :P
[21:30:45] <Dominus> what are the option for bpp? auto and?
[21:32:21] <Malignant_Manor> 32 and 16
[21:33:30] <Dominus> doesn't change my infernal problem with the 8bit scalers (if that would be even in the scope of this patch)
[21:33:48] <Malignant_Manor> forcing 16 will let you switch from an 8 bit scaler to a non-opengl 16/32 bit scaler without issues.
[21:34:09] <Malignant_Manor> It doesn't make an 8 bit scaler use 16 or 32 bit color depth
[21:34:32] <Dominus> ah ok, then that doesn't help me :)
[21:35:11] <Malignant_Manor> forcing 32 has the same benefits as forcing 16 plus it helps the OpenGL scaler in a similar situation
[21:35:41] <Malignant_Manor> Well, Direct X handles fullscreen so you can likely switch point correctly when it is being used.
[21:43:18] <Dominus> if my Mac could make use of DirectX :)
[21:46:59] <Malignant_Manor> Wine?
[21:48:25] <Dominus> it could use wine, but I'm all for running Exult natively on Mac and not use Wine or a VM
[21:48:41] <Dominus> and if I'm going to run into other problems...
[21:49:03] <Dominus> Wine is not the best solution to run Windows programs in fullscreen on OS X
[21:49:50] <Malignant_Manor> But does it work?
[21:51:24] <Dominus> oh yes, it was one of the Windows Os I tried the local_appdata changes on :)
[21:51:45] <Dominus> fullscreen I don't know
[21:54:50] <Dominus> on first try it doesn't work, I'd probably need to set the virtual desktop and such.
[21:54:56] <Dominus> not going to do that now :)
[21:55:53] <Malignant_Manor> Does it work fine for you in Windows?
[21:57:19] <Dominus> I don't have Windows anymore
[21:57:36] <Malignant_Manor> Nooooooooooooooo!
[21:57:57] <Dominus> I only have Windows in VMs and in these fullscreen switching works for some Windows OS and for some it doesn'T
[21:58:14] <Dominus> I do have a tablet with Windows 7 but I rarely use it
[21:59:05] <Dominus> and haven't tested Exult on it for quite some time.
[21:59:36] <Dominus> the local_appdata testing was all done in VMs, otherwise I would be already mad with installing all these Windows OS on real hardware...
[22:05:35] <Marzo> Malignant_Manor, Dominus: Re: conf/Configuration.h versus Configuration.h in includes, this is because Dominus is compiling with autotools instead of MinGW
[22:06:02] <Marzo> This means that the include path in the appropriate Makefile.am must be changed to also specify the "conf" dir
[22:06:36] <Dominus> ay caramba!
[22:06:50] <Malignant_Manor> Should the function just be added to gamewin to avoid needing the headers in imagewin for one function?
[22:07:10] <Marzo> Can you link me to the patch?
[22:08:57] <Malignant_Manor> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/download.php?group_id=2335&atid=302335&file_id=365596&aid=2960404
[22:10:20] <Malignant_Manor> It adds the direct x env variable cfg option, forcing hwdepth for 16/32 bit scalers, and a few general rendering fixes.
[22:12:18] <Malignant_Manor> Dominus, have you talked to Fingolfin about Exult Studio bundles?
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[22:13:18] <Dominus> Malignant_Manor: making a bundle of Exult Studio is really not needed atm
[22:13:54] <Dominus> as long as it is really near impossible to make a static built of ES, we don't need it, imo
[22:14:18] <Dominus> it might be interesting to add ES to the Exult.app bundle, though
[22:15:50] <Dominus> the problem with building a static ES is multifold. It has so many dependancies that it is hard to master which static lib pulls in yet another dynmaic one in.
[22:16:12] <Dominus> and then ES does not work correctly with the static gtk+ lib
[22:16:19] <Dominus> that's way over my head
[22:16:40] <Malignant_Manor> For ES, could you do like a Debian package and have it tell what the require libraries are and automatically install them?
[22:16:58] <Dominus> and Fingolfin repeatedly stated that he really has more pressing things to than work on Exult :)
[22:17:51] <Malignant_Manor> So, the guy that just got a Mac is now the Mac porter...
[22:18:17] <Dominus> debian like package, could mabe be done with a port file for macports but in the end it's almost the same like now, following the documentation and compiling manually
[22:19:09] * Fingolfin is not interested in working in exult these days. the code base is just to terrible. I always feel this super urge to rewrite most of the Exult code, because it's so fucking ugly :)
[22:19:20] <Dominus> Brandon's problem were mostly not following what I've wrote repeatedly and me not always knowing which step he left out
[22:19:38] <Dominus> :)
[22:20:15] <Fingolfin> too many things are broken with Exult, IMO, and would require a proper rewrite of large parts, but I don't have the time to undertake such a major endeavor
[22:20:19] <Fingolfin> plus I don't think that it's my choice to make this decision; after all, others who worked far more than me on Exult may love the code base as is, and would hate me if I touched it .)
[22:20:36] <Dominus> the last part I really doubt :)
[22:21:07] <Marzo> Malignant_Manor: it would be better to change the relevant functions to take an extra parameter to override the hwdepth instead of using that Force_hwdepth function (or moving it elsewhere)
[22:21:43] <Marzo> Fingolfing: I have the same urge of rewriting many things
[22:21:59] <Dominus> so it's a good thing I moved to mac and am showing exult some love even though it could use much more mac love than I can provide with my skills :)
[22:22:52] <Malignant_Manor> Besides that, what do you think of the patch?
[22:24:08] <Malignant_Manor> If you like the rest of it, you could make the changes you would like Exult to use regarding forcing hwdepth.
[22:24:32] <Dominus> Fingolfin: I'd hate to bother you again, but with your not really wanting to look at Exult code these days, should I just add the CoreMIDI patch and see what happens?
[22:24:34] <Marzo> I would have to test it
[22:25:10] <Malignant_Manor> So far, it seems to work fine on 98, XP, and Vista.
[22:25:25] <Malignant_Manor> Not much testing was done on Vista or 98.
[22:25:57] <Fingolfin> Dominus: sure, sounds sensible
[22:26:14] <Dominus> :)
[22:27:01] <Malignant_Manor> The Direct X patch is mainly for release before a better rendering system is in place.
[22:27:50] <Marzo> You mean before we cannibalize the Pentagram rendering code :-)
[22:28:49] <Dominus> Fingolfin: OK, then I'll go ahead tomorrow. I would still love it if you, if you could look at it at some point and maybe eliminate stuff that is unneeded or just done wrong (it works though, but I don't know at what cost :)) but I surely understand your reluctance to look at exult code :)
[22:29:24] <Dominus> just look at Colourless, listening too much and he's already in the audio code (thanks Colourless)
[22:29:28] <Dominus> :)
[22:36:52] <Malignant_Manor> I wonder if I should making a shared data path for Exult and Exult Studio in common files for NT 5+.
[22:38:34] <Malignant_Manor> The only file they both actually need to share is exultmsg.txt.
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[23:08:49] <Marzo> Ugh... it is sad to know that sometimes, a reboot is needed even in Linux :-(
[23:09:30] <Marzo> I was trying out Colourless' new branch, and audio was choppy and the entire subsystem died not too shortly afterwards
[23:10:04] <Marzo> Wasted a lot of time looking at the code and finding out it was "perfect"; after a reboot, audio works perfectly
[23:10:10] <Colourless> how bizzare
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[23:18:04] <Colourless> as far as 'differences' go in my branch vs the trunk. i have the mixing rate set to 48000 vs 22050 in the trunk and the sample buffer size is probably different. its set to 1024 samples in my branch. no idea what it'd be set to in the trunk.
[23:18:31] <Colourless> its possible you were getting an issue with the 1024 buffer being too small for 48000 mixing rate.
[23:19:02] <Colourless> 48000 rate is only for testing. i'll make it a config setting so end users can select it, defaulting back to 22050
[23:27:53] <Marzo> I actually think it was some process that misbehaved badly and borked the audio
[23:28:08] <Marzo> As I pointed out, it is crystal clear after a reboot
[23:28:54] <Marzo> (But a bigger buffer may be a good idea anyway, especially for lower end systems)
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