#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 8 Oct 2003 (GMT)

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[03:10:04] <Coren_> Incidentally, where is exultbot's log kept nowadays?
[03:12:45] <SB-X> ?logs
[03:12:45] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php
[03:14:23] <Coren_> Thanks.
[03:21:59] <Coren_> By the way, Willem (if you read the ogs) you're welcome to put exultbot on #low as well.
[03:29:20] <SB-X> i see exultbot didn't understand hiragana
[03:29:41] <Coren_> Nope. Poor little beast is stuck in latin-1
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[11:46:34] --- Topic for #exult is: http://exult.sf.net/
[11:46:34] --- Topic for #exult set by wjp at Thu Sep 4 15:48:16 2003
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[12:18:01] <Cless|Away> hi... sort of
[12:18:27] <SB-X> hello
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[13:54:42] <Coren_> Muahaha! Quake[23]'s q3bsp constructs, as a side effect, a list of convex areas and portals connecting them in a map. Which is *exactly* what my engine uses.
[14:19:40] <Cless|Away> i would exactly call that a 'side effect' as it is what you want to be doing for visulization
[14:19:49] <Cless|Away> s/would/wouldn't/
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[14:24:49] <William> hoihoi
[14:58:52] <William> is deze irc van een afdeling op de univ of alles bij elkaar?
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[15:00:38] <wjp> William: wat bedoel je?
[15:01:05] <William> oops... ik dacht dat dit bij een universiteit hoorde
[15:02:48] <wjp> wat is "dit" ?
[15:02:49] <William> alle logboeken van deze irc staan op de site van universiteit leiden dus ik d8 dat dit de irc van leidenuniv was
[15:03:14] <wjp> nah, dat zijn alleen de kanalen waar mijn 'exultbot' aanwezig is
[15:03:35] <wjp> en exultbot draait op een machine bij wiskunde in leiden
[15:03:39] <wjp> (waar ik studeer)
[15:03:51] <William> maar deze irc heeft verder helemaal geen links met leidenuniv te maken?
[15:04:01] <wjp> niet zover ik weet
[15:04:18] <William> heeft leidenuniv een irc?
[15:04:31] <wjp> hm, ik geloof het niet
[15:04:59] <William> wat is de #nuvie voor een channel?
[15:05:06] <William> sorry als ik je overlaad met vragen :D
[15:05:30] <wjp> better switch to english if the topic isn't dutch anymore :-)
[15:05:43] <wjp> that way the others might be able to understand too ;-)
[15:05:47] <William> ok
[15:05:59] <wjp> nuvie: nuvie.sf.net
[15:06:01] <wjp> (ultima 6 remake)
[15:06:16] <William> ok thx
[15:06:47] <wjp> I should go again :-)
[15:06:48] <wjp> bye
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[15:07:48] <William> k... i'm off again. c u
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[15:27:27] --- Topic for #exult is: http://exult.sf.net/
[15:27:27] --- Topic for #exult set by wjp at Thu Sep 4 15:48:16 2003
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[15:57:24] <wjp> hi
[16:13:06] * wjp hmms... what's the schunk_modified for in Game_map?
[16:13:10] <wjp> AFAICT, it's never written to
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[16:15:32] <Fl00der> Hi
[16:15:53] <wjp> hi
[16:18:30] <Fl00der> hmm...can anyone recommend any good CRPG to me along with Ultima7 :P ?
[16:18:38] <wjp> I'm quite thoroughly confused about this whole schunk caching stuff
[16:18:48] <Fl00der> what stuff ?
[16:18:56] <wjp> Fallout? Baldur's Gate 1+2+expansion? Planescape Torment?
[16:19:03] <wjp> exult internals :-)
[16:19:13] <Fl00der> whatkind game placescape torment is ?is it Open-ended ?
[16:19:23] <wjp> no, very plot-driven
[16:19:23] <Fl00der> I don't like BG's
[16:19:29] <Fl00der> dang
[16:19:32] <Fl00der> not to me then
[16:19:35] <Fl00der> I hate linear RPG's
[16:19:50] <wjp> Fallout has a lot of sidequests
[16:20:05] <Fl00der> you mean Fallout 1 or 2 :) ?
[16:20:11] <wjp> both, I guess
[16:20:22] <Fl00der> I heard that Fallout games has some Savegame problems
[16:20:36] <wjp> ?
[16:20:58] <Fl00der> well, I just heard that there is some problems with savegames...don't know more...
[16:21:00] <Fl00der> anyway
[16:21:11] <Fl00der> what you meant before ? You hate Exult ? :P
[16:21:14] <Fl00der> lol
[16:21:34] <wjp> no, I'm quite thoroughly confused about the schunk caching in exult
[16:22:01] <Fl00der> my dictionary can't find what means schunk caching :D
[16:22:11] <wjp> that's because 'schunk' isn't a word :-)
[16:22:11] <Fl00der> sorry, Can't understand. 100 %
[16:22:54] <Fl00der> hehe
[16:22:55] <Fl00der> right
[16:23:06] <Fl00der> and caching ?
[16:23:10] <Fl00der> "caching"
[16:23:14] <Fl00der> never heard
[16:23:25] <wjp> that's a word :-)
[16:23:33] <Fl00der> but my dictionary can't find it :P
[16:24:14] <Fl00der> hmm...are you making only exult or are part of another Ultima remake ?
[16:24:26] <Fl00der> +you
[16:24:35] <Fl00der> +project :P
[16:25:12] <Fl00der> wjp
[16:26:44] <wjp> exult and pentagram mainly, although I'm also more or less involved with uwadv, nuvie, low
[16:26:58] <Fl00der> right...
[16:27:26] <Fl00der> what is uwadv ?
[16:27:38] <wjp> uw1 engine
[16:27:57] <Fl00der> ultima underworld 1 ?
[16:28:10] <wjp> yes
[16:28:15] <Fl00der> right...
[16:28:27] <Fl00der> hmm...
[16:29:33] <Fl00der> do you like Ultima8 ? I assume that pentagram is project for U8
[16:29:42] <wjp> yes, and yes
[16:29:58] <Fl00der> hmm...whatkind project is pentagram :D?
[16:30:03] <Fl00der> samekind like exult ?
[16:30:06] <wjp> yes
[16:30:33] <Fl00der> some people said that U8 is worst Ultima
[16:30:57] <wjp> I didn't say it was a "good Ultima" (whatever that may mean)
[16:31:40] <Fl00der> well, you said that you like it, so you like to play it a lot :P
[16:32:18] <Fl00der> I guess :P
[16:32:33] <wjp> I don't think that's a valid deduction
[16:32:55] <Fl00der> heh
[16:33:04] <Fl00der> right...
[16:35:00] <Fl00der> hey...wjp
[16:35:27] <Fl00der> do you know why Exult changes my computer sounds weird :P
[16:35:56] <wjp> eh?
[16:35:56] <Fl00der> after I have played Exult...I play another game and notice that sounds aren't correct :P
[16:36:06] <wjp> windows?
[16:36:27] <Fl00der> well, I notice sounds aren't right in every game
[16:36:36] <wjp> do you run windows?
[16:36:41] <Fl00der> yes. win XP
[16:36:45] <wjp> no idea then
[16:36:50] <Fl00der> hmm
[16:36:57] <Fl00der> maybe because Conversion
[16:37:20] <Fl00der> it's not bad change to my sound...it's like "Ultima sounds in everygame" :P
[16:37:45] <Fl00der> well, it's not good thing but I can live with it :)
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[16:43:16] <Fl00der> it's shame
[16:43:32] <Fl00der> There will be Ultima X but it will be Online game only : (
[16:43:52] <Fl00der> that really sux
[16:45:41] <Fl00der> hmm...
[16:46:04] <Fl00der> This Channel is pretty quietly
[16:51:52] <Fl00der> gtg cya
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[16:52:05] <Cless|Away> Noun verb adjective adverb... parse error
[16:52:27] <wjp> not the first parse error :-)
[16:52:56] <Cless|Away> :-)
[16:53:04] <wjp> Cless|Away: I think some schunk_xxx variables are being mixed up
[16:53:13] <wjp> which might cause some 'old' data to be written
[16:53:44] <wjp> cache_out/cache_out_schunk seem to indicate that 'schunk_read' is set when the schunk is loaded
[16:54:22] <wjp> but write_ireg (which is called on quicksave) checks schunk_read only as a secondary condition
[16:54:55] <wjp> then there's schunk_modified which is never written to, AFAICT
[16:55:39] <wjp> and a comment in cache_out_schunk about schunk_cache which claims it should never be set at that point
[16:56:09] <Cless|Away> schunk_modified modified should have been set somewhere
[16:56:19] <wjp> well, it's cleared at the start
[16:56:46] <Cless|Away> note that the check has to do with ifixes
[16:56:52] <Cless|Away> if (schunk_modified[schunk])
[16:56:52] <Cless|Away> write_ifix_objects(schunk);
[16:57:07] <Cless|Away> exultstudio related i think
[16:57:37] <Cless|Away> Game_map::set_ifix_modified() in gamemap.h
[16:58:08] <Cless|Away> anyway... looking at the other stuff
[16:58:08] <wjp> ah, indeed... I guess the '=' being on the next line made me miss that
[16:58:10] <wjp> (I did a grep)
[16:59:14] <wjp> ugh, dinner; I'll bbl
[17:00:25] <Cless|Away> schunk_read is meant to indicate that the superchunk has been fully read into memory
[17:04:14] <Cless|Away> the comment in cache_out_schunk basically is saying that cache_out_schunk shouldn't be called for a superchunk that has been cached out
[17:04:49] <Cless|Away> the reason is that schunk_read should be set false for cached out schunks and cache_out_schunk should not be called then
[17:09:16] <Cless|Away> i'll look at things a bit closer tomorrow to see if there is a problem.
[17:22:05] <wjp> back
[17:22:39] <wjp> did you see the last couple of posts in the "Confiscated stuff disappearing..." thread?
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[17:37:42] <wjp> hi
[17:37:58] <Fingolfin> yo
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[18:07:03] <Jammet> =^_^= Meow.
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[18:31:21] <Fl00der> good evening
[18:32:18] <armav> Fl00der: what country are you from?
[18:32:27] <Fl00der> Finland
[18:33:13] <Fl00der> what about you armav, what country are you from? :P
[18:33:20] <armav> germany
[18:33:34] <Fl00der> ok
[18:33:41] <armav> ok? :)
[18:33:45] <Fl00der> heh
[18:33:55] <armav> if i was from austria, would that not be ok? :)
[18:33:56] <Fl00der> well, what should I say then ? :D
[18:34:00] <Fl00der> hehe
[18:34:09] <Fl00der> I don't mean that :)
[18:34:19] <Fl00der> just said OK :P
[18:34:25] <Fl00der> I don't care where people is
[18:34:33] <armav> ok
[18:34:43] <Fl00der> heh
[18:34:47] <Fl00der> so armav...
[18:35:01] <Fl00der> do you play Ultima ?
[18:35:24] <armav> of course
[18:35:37] <Fl00der> What part?
[18:35:45] <Fl00der> 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 or 9 ? :)
[18:35:54] <Fl00der> oh I forgot 0
[18:35:59] <armav> right now i'm looking for bugs in xu4
[18:36:07] <armav> http://xu4.sf.net
[18:36:24] <Fl00der> oh, you are part of U4 remake :P?
[18:36:33] <armav> not really
[18:36:40] <Fl00der> right...
[18:36:48] <armav> i just wait for updates :)
[18:36:53] <Fl00der> I play ultima7 because it's the best :P
[18:37:06] <Fl00der> can do whatever you can imagine
[18:37:14] <armav> i like ultima 7 too
[18:37:26] <Fl00der> but now I'm looking for good CRPG along with U7...
[18:37:45] <armav> have you played ps:t?
[18:37:48] <Fl00der> can you recommend any CRPG to me ?
[18:37:51] <Fl00der> ps:t?`
[18:37:59] <armav> planescape: torment
[18:38:10] <armav> it uses the baldur's gate engine
[18:38:16] <Fl00der> yea, but it's Linear, right ?
[18:38:30] <armav> about as linear as serpent isle :)
[18:38:37] <Fl00der> really ?`
[18:38:46] <Fl00der> so you can walk anywhere ?
[18:38:54] <Fl00der> like in BG you must discover areas
[18:39:10] <armav> well, the game world is pre-rendered, so they don't let you walk anywhere at all times
[18:39:18] <Fl00der> : /
[18:39:48] <armav> but i'd still recommend it, if only because it has a lot of conversations
[18:40:05] <armav> and unlike the other d&d games, there are no tolkien creatures in it
[18:40:16] <Fl00der> ugh, I don't like Linear games :P
[18:40:36] <Fl00der> how big the game world is ?
[18:40:54] <Fl00der> hmm
[18:40:57] <armav> i think it's difficult to strike a balance between a good story and non-linearity
[18:41:21] <armav> because if the game is too non-linear, the player can really mess up the story :)
[18:41:50] <Fl00der> well, I like if I can mess up the story :)
[18:41:51] <Fl00der> hehe
[18:42:00] <armav> the game world in ps:t doesn't feel as big as the one in u7, mainly because it's divided into areas
[18:42:13] <Fl00der> always areas...
[18:42:18] <Fl00der> why they don't never learn...
[18:42:19] <armav> it mostly takes place in settlements, there is very little wilderness
[18:42:32] <Fl00der> weird RPG :)
[18:42:58] <armav> http://www.devilwhiskey.com
[18:43:05] <armav> a bard's tale remake
[18:43:29] <Fl00der> well, there is coming also another bards tale remake from maker of bards tale :)
[18:43:41] <Cless|Away> Fl00der be open minded
[18:43:52] <armav> i'd buy the other bt remake if i had a ps2
[18:43:52] <Fl00der> how so ?
[18:44:14] <armav> the idea of an rpg parody sound good
[18:44:18] <armav> *sounds
[18:44:18] <Cless|Away> complaining about not liking linear rpgs
[18:44:50] <Cless|Away> if you've never played PST, and you say you wont like it because it's linear
[18:45:01] <Fl00der> away: what about that ? I have my opinions...I don't too linear rpgs...
[18:45:09] <armav> isn't the single-player part of dungeon sige one rpg that's linear in the literal sense? or was it nwn
[18:45:09] <Fl00der> away: I didn't said that I don't like PST
[18:45:14] <armav> *siege
[18:45:18] <armav> -one rpg
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[18:45:46] <Cless|Away> PST is extremely linear, but IMO one of the best RPGs ever
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[18:46:02] <armav> Fl00der: cless is the name, away is the current status
[18:46:14] <Fl00der> right :)
[18:47:40] <Fl00der> I don't hate linear so much that I can't play some game but Game is not good if it's too linear...
[18:47:49] <Fl00der> I mean, I don't like if it's too linear :)
[18:48:10] <armav> do you like adventure games?
[18:48:16] <armav> like monkey island
[18:48:24] <Fl00der> yea, I like adveture games
[18:48:27] <Fl00der> adventure*
[18:49:16] <Cah_ZzZz> what is PST again?
[18:49:35] <Fl00der> Planescape tornment or something :)
[18:49:43] <Fl00der> I guess...
[18:49:45] <Fl00der> :P
[18:49:47] <Cless|Away> Planescape: Torment
[18:49:48] <Cah_ZzZz> oh ok
[18:49:52] <Cah_ZzZz> never tried that one
[18:49:57] <Cless|Away> the tale of the nameless one
[18:50:00] <Fl00der> me neither
[18:50:17] <Cah_ZzZz> with the BG engine
[18:50:20] <armav> it's better than ultima
[18:50:24] <armav> j/k
[18:50:26] <Cah_ZzZz> no way
[18:50:26] <Cah_ZzZz> lol
[18:50:28] <armav> dontkillmeplease
[18:50:46] <Cless|Away> it is very dialog heavy
[18:51:27] <Fl00der> now Im waiting really KOTOR
[18:51:31] <armav> and it's very weird in some places
[18:51:32] <Fl00der> Knights of the old rebublic
[18:51:35] <Cless|Away> very much a character driven game too. Talking to your party members is an important part of the game
[18:52:07] <wjp> I miss talking to my party in BG1/2
[18:52:21] <wjp> only have my familiar to chat with :-)
[18:52:22] <Fl00der> I don't like BG's for some reason
[18:53:18] <Cless|Away> PST is also a love story... in a strange sort of a way
[18:53:46] <Cless|Away> also, you are immortal too :-)
[18:54:24] <Fl00der> really?
[18:54:32] <wjp> it starts with your 'waking up' in the morgue
[18:54:39] <Fl00der> hehe
[18:54:51] <Fl00der> sounds weird and interesting
[18:54:52] <Cless|Away> and you start talking to a floating skull
[18:54:52] <Fl00der> RPG
[18:58:23] <Cless|Away> the skull of course becomes your first party member. The rest of your party member include such things as a succubus, a animated suit of armour and a 'flaming corpse' among others
[18:59:21] <Cless|Away> the game is quite weird
[18:59:42] <Fl00der> sounds really weird
[19:04:34] <Cless|Away> i'm off now
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[20:10:27] <Coren_> Say, Willem, how does chanserv work? I'd give you +o on #low if I knew how and I'm too lazy to look it up. :-)
[20:10:51] <wjp> each channel has an access list
[20:10:58] <wjp> it links nicks to levels
[20:11:12] <wjp> each level can have several rights
[20:11:29] <armav> like the unix file system
[20:12:42] <wjp> for autoop, you first need to set assign a level to it
[20:13:44] <wjp> with e.g., /msg chanserv level #low 9 autoop, I think
[20:14:23] <wjp> um, that is /msg chanserv level #low set autoop 9
[20:14:51] <wjp> then if you add someone to the access list with level >= 9 he will automatically be op-ed
[20:15:01] <wjp> which is done by e.g., /msg chanserv access #low add wjp 10
[20:15:31] <Coren_> Erm. Odd. I'm told 'contact access' is needed. AFAIK I'm the contact for the channel, given that I'm the only op. :-)
[20:15:52] <wjp> you need to identify to chanserv for the channel first
[20:16:21] <Coren_> Yes, I had just figured that out.
[20:16:23] <wjp> i.e., /msg chanserv identify #low <password>
[20:16:30] <wjp> (where <password> is the founder password for #low)
[20:16:33] <wjp> ok
[20:17:06] <Coren_> Voila!
[20:17:59] <wjp> thanks :-)
[20:18:49] <Coren_> Did you see that bit about q3bsp? :-)
[20:19:51] <wjp> it created something you needed, right?
[20:19:53] <wjp> convex sections and portals, or something
[20:20:03] <Coren_> And, Cless, the convex areas _are_ a side effect of q3bsp; the Quake engine actually uses the bsp nodes themselves for rendering, the areas are used for mobile movement.
[20:21:40] <Coren_> Yes, well, that solved a major headache of mine: I don't have to write any sort of world editor; I can actually do UW2 data files -> quake2 .map -> quake2 editor of choice -> quake2 .bsp -> my own format.
[20:22:33] <armav> can you add a quake2 map as an easter egg?
[20:22:46] <armav> no wait, that'd be copyright infringement
[20:23:03] <armav> but maybe a map from a quake2 mod?
[20:23:44] <Coren_> Hmm. Actually, that'd be sorta fair use. I don't think Id would hold it against me if I used a suitably retextured very recognizable map as an easter egg. Something like dm1 or cft1. :-)
[20:24:15] <Coren_> ctf1 even.
[20:25:08] <Coren_> Retextured and relit, that this. My engine couldn't cope with the paletted textures or strangely constructed lightmaps of a full quake2 map.
[20:26:34] <Coren_> I do lighting and texture alignment completely differently than they do.
[20:27:08] <Coren_> But there are only so many ways of defining convex volumes; so translating from one to the other is simple enough.
[20:37:21] <Coren_> OOooo. Me like nuvie. :-) Soon no Ultima worth playing won't be playable under any environment!
[20:39:23] <armav> do you like ultima 5?
[20:40:58] <Coren_> I like all the ultimas from III to VIII. Ultima I and II are quaint, but don't get me all nostalgic. Don't get me started about the Pseudo-Ultima. :-)
[20:50:12] <Cah_ZzZz> Ultima underworld is damn great too
[21:00:25] <Coren_> I included the UWs in the sequence. III, IV, VI, UW1, VIIa, UW2, VIIb, VIII.
[21:01:08] <Fingolfin> is that to be read as a binary tree in infix notation? :-)
[21:01:40] <Coren_> Nope. That's a flat array. :-)
[21:01:44] <wjp> where's V?
[21:01:53] <Fingolfin> out of bounds, wjp
[21:02:13] * Fingolfin wonders if that's an under or an overflow, though
[21:02:15] <Coren_> Between IV, an VI, in the lands of vacuous brain farts. :-)
[21:02:23] * wjp segfaults
[21:02:25] <wjp> more packet loss? :-)
[21:02:28] <Coren_> IX overflows.
[21:02:40] <Coren_> Willem; yeah, right! Packet loss!
[21:02:58] <Coren_> See? I increase my packet size. 3 bytes is better, yes?
[21:03:03] * Fingolfin wonders if there is already an exploit availabler
[21:03:13] <Fingolfin> s/abler/able/
[21:03:33] <wjp> tcp just isn't what it used to be these days :-)
[21:03:47] <wjp> packet loss and reordering all over the place :-)
[21:03:56] <Coren_> I use IP over carrier pigeon. Sometimes they get lost.
[21:03:58] <wjp> strange it only happens on IRC, though ;-)
[21:05:47] <Coren_> Hmmm. Using a railgun in the Castle British throne rooms just feels /wrong/.
[21:05:50] <Coren_> :-)
[21:06:55] <Coren_> Quavatar!
[21:07:29] <wjp> heresy! :-)
[21:07:38] <Coren_> Eat quad rockets, Guardian!
[21:09:00] * Coren_ remembers one or two fights in UW2 where he wouldn't have binded a BFG. :-)
[21:09:06] <Coren_> s/bind/mind/
[21:10:15] <Coren_> Definition of trouble: When you hear the sound of Lord Umbria picking up a Quad.
[21:13:34] <Coren_> Nah, I *definitely* need to include a Q2 map as an easter egg. I'll need to find something suitably recognizable.
[21:15:28] <Coren_> And preferably one that doesn't need a skybox.
[22:09:44] <Cah_ZzZz> Coren_ what are you working on ?
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[22:55:22] <wjp> time to go
[22:55:23] <wjp> night
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