#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 8 Sep 2001 (GMT)

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[00:00:49] <x-bow> my barb was absolute nails, shame the uni decided to purge non-academic stuff :-/
[00:01:08] <wjp> :-(
[00:01:32] <chimera|wookin> hehe
[00:01:40] <chimera|wookin> my characters used to rule until the expansion pack came out
[00:01:41] <chimera|wookin> :(
[00:02:04] <x-bow> not played d2 for a long time now
[00:04:11] <Kefka> gah.. i am in 12 channels
[00:04:21] <Kefka> spanning two servers
[00:04:56] <x-bow> I'm in 2 channelsover 2 servers
[00:05:12] <wjp> 1 channel...
[00:05:16] <Kefka> heh
[00:05:19] <wjp> well, 2 if you count Bnet :-)
[00:05:38] <wjp> fingolfin: still around?
[00:07:34] <fingolfin> wjp: hiya yeah I am still creeping around
[00:08:01] <fingolfin> wjp: hm.. battle net.... but I need to finishe this stuff for Sam (Lantinga) he wants to release monday... gagh
[00:08:09] <wjp> SDL_mixer?
[00:08:14] <fingolfin> nah, SDL
[00:08:20] <wjp> osx stuff?
[00:08:25] <fingolfin> OS X build system; OS X joystick driver; OS X keyboard improvments
[00:08:27] <fingolfin> aye
[00:08:31] <fingolfin> and docs
[00:09:16] <fingolfin> all finished except the docs... and while I am writing these, of course I noticed some problems in my build system for general use, and now I have to change parts slightly
[00:09:17] <fingolfin> sigh
[00:09:59] <x-bow> look at it this way: fan-boys like me are always grateful for any updates
[00:18:10] <chimera|wookin> oh the docs! horrid horrid docs!
[00:19:47] <x-bow> hrh
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[01:13:08] <Kefka> Hmm.. does anyone know if it is safe to apt-get upgrade from a terminal emulator when running KDE?
[01:13:38] <Kefka> i am concerned about what would happen if i upgraded the actual KDE package(s) while i am running KDE
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[01:34:12] <wjp> well... that was fast...
[01:34:18] * wjp is now in act 5 hell
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[01:39:21] <Kefka> fingolfin: On the links page, the updated URL for Eriadain is: http://eriadain.multimania.com/
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[01:45:04] <fingolfin> fixed
[01:45:29] <Kefka> ok
[01:47:13] <Kefka> why someone would stoop to use the evil that is flash is beyond me
[01:54:12] <wjp> yeah, kind of annoying that you can't even reach the main page without it
[01:55:03] <fingolfin> flash is nice for some things. as long as it is optional
[01:55:12] <Kefka> well, i am not gonna go install it just because they won't put a 'Skip Intro' or whatever link..
[01:55:31] <fingolfin> hahaha! I finished these bloody docs & the build system! now I only need to do a last test run (with exult... omg)
[01:55:32] <wjp> there's a skip intro link, but it's within the flash thingie :/
[01:55:41] <Kefka> lol
[01:56:25] <wjp> hmm, their links are broken too... they have 'www.planetneverwinter.com' as a relative link... http://eriadain.multimania.com/www.planetneverwinter.com :-)
[01:56:38] <fingolfin> =)
[01:56:39] <wjp> strange that that produces a 404 ;-)
[01:57:20] <wjp> hmm, 4am already
[01:57:30] <wjp> guess I'd better stop playing D2
[01:58:42] <Kefka> wjp: Everquest!
[01:59:12] <wjp> everquest?
[01:59:28] <Kefka> heh, yeah, play that
[01:59:55] <wjp> why? :-)
[02:00:37] <Kefka> um, i dunno, its cool
[02:01:07] <wjp> speaking of MMORPGs, I wonder what World of Warcraft is going to be like
[02:02:04] <Kefka> well, i have to speak to a few friends of mine, but chances are i will be playing from day one..
[02:02:54] <wjp> I probably shouldn't even consider it... MMORPGs tend to swallow up lots of time
[02:03:15] <Kefka> we are gonna probably form a clan, but in addition to playing the game, we are probably gonna sell stuff on ebay
[02:03:37] <wjp> is there any rough estimate on the release date, btw?
[02:03:53] <Kefka> nope.. but i'd say 2nd quarter 2002
[02:07:19] <wjp> I really should go to bed now
[02:07:26] <wjp> goodnight
[02:07:27] <Kefka> night
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[03:01:17] <West> hey are the crash bugs fixed for Shamino's Castle and the Gorlab Swamp Dream Realm?
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[04:18:01] <Waz> morning
[04:38:06] <Waz> evening?
[04:38:42] <matto> wazzy!
[04:39:31] <Waz> damn it,..
[04:39:32] <Waz> :)
[04:43:07] <matto> :)
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[11:18:59] <SharpTooth> Hello! <bow> Quiet as always? <grin>
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[13:11:24] <wjp> hi
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[15:08:32] <Waz> hello
[15:11:39] <Waz> all the text displaying functions.. where are they located? I would like to see what functions are avaiable to use
[15:12:30] <Waz> and that damn get_click
[15:13:19] <wjp> you were working on the enhanced map, right?
[15:13:40] <Waz> trying :)
[15:13:49] <Waz> lots.. lotsof code..
[15:14:38] <wjp> Game_window has a paint_text() function
[15:14:39] <Waz> i have not actualy coding anything.. i'm traceing bakc all the function called.. to their origin to see what else is around, and what they do, interacte.. etc..
[15:14:56] * wjp nods
[15:16:55] <wjp> you can also use the Font class to display text
[15:17:21] <wjp> the BG intro in bggame.cc has an example of how to use the latter
[15:17:59] <Waz> ok.. i'm assuming all the rodent code is in mouse.cc
[15:18:30] <Waz> but i can't find get_click.. I was using get_click to find the get_rodent mostion functions..
[15:18:43] <Waz> err motion.. sorry
[15:19:00] <wjp> Get_click is in.... *looking*
[15:19:12] <wjp> exult.cc
[15:20:57] <Waz> that won't work then.. i'll have to find something else for mouse motion. sdl has a function that will give the mouse movement relative to tthe last call, but i don't want to use sdl calles if exult already handels them..
[15:21:23] <wjp> well... I'm afraid Exult handles this a bit awkwardly
[15:21:33] <Waz> oh.
[15:21:33] <wjp> we have event loops all over the place
[15:22:34] <Waz> so.. should i call to sdl in the map routine, or would that break something i don't knwo about.
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[15:24:00] <wjp> yes, you'll probably have to use SDL calls
[15:24:16] <Waz> ko..
[15:24:20] <Waz> *gulp*
[15:24:53] <wjp> or use a modified version of Get_click
[15:25:02] <Waz> well.. when the map is up, the game pauses, so i don't think it would hurt anything..
[15:25:11] <Waz> modified clickie?
[15:25:15] <Waz> where?
[15:25:41] <wjp> well, Get_click already has most of the functionality you want, so you could expand it a bit
[15:26:45] <Waz> ah.. use a time and compair the differances?
[15:26:49] <wjp> what exactly do you want to do, btw?
[15:27:23] <wjp> show a tooltip if you keep the mouse in one place for a fixed amount of time?
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[15:27:31] <Waz> have it display what is benneth the cursor, in runic.. the town names, major gewographic areas..
[15:27:48] <Waz> but i was have the text be abouve the map
[15:27:58] <Waz> centered.. in pretty yellow..
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[15:28:11] <wjp> when do you want to show the text? on a keypress or after a delay?
[15:28:28] <Waz> when the mouse stop and remina over a spot for x time
[15:28:38] <wjp> I was afraid of that :/
[15:28:46] <Waz> oh..
[15:28:58] <Waz> i can avouve the delay..
[15:29:12] <wjp> avouve?
[15:29:37] <Waz> above.. sorry
[15:30:20] <wjp> well, a delay is possible, but it'll require a slightly bigger modification to Get_click
[15:31:06] <Waz> well.. i was thinking.. after the map and sextant location is displayed.. still use a mouse click to exit
[15:31:40] <Waz> but ever.. oh.. 500ms check the mouse position and compaire it to a table of know locations on the map.
[15:32:02] <Waz> and if there is a match, draw the pretty yellow above the map.
[15:32:19] <Waz> and if the mouse moves again, get rid of the pretty yellow
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[15:32:40] <Waz> and recheck it table
[15:33:58] <Waz> well.. a do while loop.. of maybe a while went. no thats basic..
[15:34:20] <Waz> or use the sdl time functions..
[15:34:43] <Waz> thats why i'm asking about the code.. i would liek to know what options i have and if x is better than y
[15:41:13] <wjp> if you want a delay, I'd store the time (using SDL_GetTicks()) of the last MouseMotion event, and display the text if that time is more than (say) 1 second ago.
[15:41:30] <wjp> you could use basically the same double loop structure as in Get_click
[15:41:51] <wjp> with the check for amount of time passed inside the outer loop, and the actual event handling in the inner loop
[15:42:18] <Waz> pretty much..
[15:42:50] <Waz> i was thinking something *vaguely* similar..
[15:43:03] <wjp> there are many ways to do it, of course :-)
[15:43:25] <Waz> :)
[15:43:31] <Waz> *ponder*
[15:45:19] <Waz> if i display text above the map, on the game screen and then change the text, the old text would be there.. and it would look nasty shortly after
[15:45:36] <Waz> or do the tetx calls preserve whateveer is behind them?
[15:45:48] <Waz> or is that the job of the caller?
[15:46:22] <wjp> you'll have to preserve the background yourself
[15:46:50] <Waz> can i grab the framebufer.. copy a part of it and.. psaste it back after
[15:47:00] <Waz> so to speak..
[15:47:10] <wjp> yes
[15:47:29] <Waz> frame.cc?
[15:47:40] <Waz> n/m
[15:47:42] <Waz> umm
[15:47:53] <Waz> what th ehell was it..
[15:47:55] <wjp> the intro in bggame.cc has some examples of this
[15:47:55] <Waz> umm..
[15:48:01] <Waz> oh
[15:48:19] <Waz> i don't suppose you have ever exult made function call documented?
[15:48:22] <Waz> }:>
[15:48:27] <Waz> ever = every
[15:48:27] <wjp> the files in the imagewin/ directory handle this kind of thing
[15:48:41] <wjp> we have hardly any functions documented, I'm afraid
[15:48:51] <Waz> boo.. bad programmer!
[15:48:55] <Waz> :)
[15:52:29] <Waz> also.. while your putting up with me.. and my bad typing.. the text drawing specifies a font, where is this defined?
[15:53:11] <wjp> the one in Game_window::paint_text() ?
[15:53:28] <Waz> yea
[15:53:41] <wjp> that's the number of the font from fonts.flx
[15:53:52] <wjp> we may have a file somewhere that lists them
[15:53:56] <Waz> is ther ea runic font, or is that only for those.. umm gumps? the signs on walls
[15:54:07] <wjp> don't know if there's a small runic font
[15:54:33] <Waz> k
[15:54:35] <wjp> s/fonts.flx/fonts.vga/
[15:54:55] <Waz> ok
[15:55:19] <Waz> i'm gona sleep on that.. wake up and have forgotten it all.. thats for help.
[15:55:30] <wjp> np
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[16:01:31] <wjp> hi
[16:01:38] <Colourless> hi
[16:01:44] <Kefka> hi
[16:52:48] <Kefka> heh.. installing uw1
[16:56:45] <Kefka> Treachery and Doom!! My brother with unleash a great evil!! Britannia is in peril!!
[16:56:53] <Kefka> s/with/will
[16:57:33] <Colourless> you know, the UW1 intro doesn't really much sense
[16:57:49] <Kefka> how so?
[16:57:49] <Colourless> instert make between really and much
[16:58:14] <Colourless> it doesn't seem like Britannia
[16:58:26] <Colourless> that my opinion anyway
[16:59:42] <Colourless> the development of the game suggest that as well, it wasn't originally meant to be an ultima, they just happened to get a license to use the name from Origin. Blue Sky attempted to put the game in the Ultima universe but IMO it didn't really work
[17:03:12] <Kefka> hmm
[17:03:29] <Kefka> well, whether its a true ultima or not, its still a damn fun game
[17:04:01] <Colourless> yeah :)
[17:04:26] <Kefka> although at the moment, my music seems to be messed up.. it works, but there are lots of pops and clicks.. and weird sounds
[17:05:09] <Colourless> what are you using to play the music?
[17:05:28] <Kefka> sb live value..
[17:05:32] <Kefka> has sb16 emu
[17:05:39] <Kefka> i am running it under winME
[17:06:13] <Kefka> everything works.. even the music is good, except for the occasional very annoying pop or Bleep
[17:06:43] <Colourless> i would say it's a fault with the Creative's Opl2 emulation
[17:06:52] <Colourless> Opl2 being the FM synth
[17:07:16] <Kefka> should it be set to use I/O 220?
[17:07:43] <Kefka> according to the settings in control panel, thats what it should be
[17:07:48] <Kefka> but who knows
[17:08:19] <Colourless> if the setting were wrong it wouldn't work at all
[17:08:48] <Kefka> yeah.. i was just wondering if there could be two settings that would work.. only one would work better
[17:08:59] <Kefka> such as one for the SBLIVE and one for the SB16 emulation
[17:09:24] <Colourless> na, I wouldn't so
[17:10:03] <Colourless> i've found that the SB16 emulation just sounds really bad in some games
[17:10:21] <Kefka> hmm
[17:11:27] <Kefka> would switching the DMA from 8 to 16 bit help you think?
[17:11:50] <Kefka> insert comma after "help"
[17:12:52] <Colourless> if the games setup doesn't have a SB16 option you shouldn't use the 16 bit dma
[17:13:32] <Kefka> setup requires you to set irq/base I//O/dma manually
[17:13:57] <Colourless> what sound card types can you choose?
[17:14:04] <Kefka> there are no types
[17:14:10] <Kefka> to choose from
[17:14:23] <Colourless> ah ok. use the 8 bit DMA channel
[17:14:29] <Kefka> ok
[17:17:13] <Kefka> gah..
[17:18:14] <Colourless> yes?
[17:18:37] <Kefka> not working
[17:18:42] <Kefka> er, still with pops
[17:18:44] <Kefka> and bleep
[17:22:06] <Kefka> hmm.. i will try in DOS mode..
[17:22:14] <Kefka> or whatever WinME calls it
[17:27:15] <Kefka> "Microsoft Windows no longer supports the format /s command."?? wtf..
[17:27:35] <Colourless> :)
[17:27:38] <wjp> what's /s ?
[17:27:42] <Kefka> system
[17:27:44] <Colourless> system
[17:27:47] <wjp> oh, right
[17:27:51] <Colourless> i.e. make a boot disk :)
[17:28:00] <Kefka> heh..
[17:28:02] <wjp> yeah, I remember that much ;-)
[17:28:05] <Colourless> no going to dos in WinME
[17:28:34] * wjp is sticking with 98
[17:28:39] <Kefka> hmm, well, if they won't let me make a disk, i'll just copy the files manually
[17:28:50] <wjp> that won't really work
[17:29:06] <wjp> boot sector has to be modified too
[17:29:25] <Kefka> so what would happen if i booted with just autoexec and config.sys
[17:29:34] <Kefka> and my cdrom driver
[17:29:36] <Colourless> wont work
[17:30:11] <Colourless> there is supposed to be some way of getting DOS to work in WinME, but I've got no idea how to do it. I don't have WinME
[17:30:22] <wjp> I wonder if anyone wrote a bootdisk-maker for ME
[17:31:42] <Kefka> this sucks...
[17:31:43] <wjp> hmm, according to this page you can make a bootdisk from the control panel
[17:31:59] <Kefka> yeah.. but will it allow me to boot into dos?
[17:32:12] <wjp> "The only way to boot to the Windows Millennium DOS is to make a boot diskette at the control panel,"
[17:32:13] <Colourless> i don't think it does
[17:32:25] <Kefka> well, i will give it a shot
[17:34:44] <Kefka> Would WINE run Uw1 (w/ sound and speech)?
[17:34:55] <wjp> I'll give it a shot
[17:35:11] <Kefka> ok thanks
[17:35:36] <wjp> Cannot run Underworld.
[17:35:36] <wjp> Out of EMS Memory. Error code C001
[17:35:49] <Kefka> apparently not
[17:35:51] <wjp> I wonder if that's tweakable in the WINE config file
[17:36:12] <Kefka> actually, are there any DOS emulators for Linux?
[17:36:19] <wjp> dosemu
[17:36:42] <Kefka> hmm. will have to check that out
[17:36:54] <Kefka> i'd rather run under Linux anyways
[17:43:57] <Kefka> gah.. what do i put in config.sys to load up emm386
[17:43:59] <Kefka> device=??
[17:44:20] <wjp> DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE
[17:44:28] <wjp> or something like that
[17:44:40] <Kefka> thanks
[17:45:18] <Kefka> this is gonna take at least another hour to get working properly i bet
[18:01:14] <Kefka> still working...
[18:06:03] <Kefka> now my computer locks up...
[18:06:21] <Kefka> on that device=c:windows\emm386.exe RAM line
[18:06:24] <Colourless> wow, i guess Windows is working 100% correctly :)
[18:06:36] <Kefka> heh
[18:07:17] <wjp> you wouldn't happen to have a win95/98 bootdisk lying around somewhere?
[18:08:26] <Kefka> nope..
[18:08:55] <Kefka> time to look for something that would be conflicting with emm386...
[18:09:11] <Colourless> Linux :)
[18:09:24] <wjp> lol
[18:09:27] <Colourless> seriously, it could be
[18:09:31] <wjp> yes, that would conflict quite nicely
[18:09:53] <Kefka> i guess it could if it was on that machine
[18:09:56] <Kefka> :)
[18:10:05] <Kefka> i only have winME on it
[18:10:29] <Colourless> it's to do with levels of memory protection. EMM386 attempts to turn on protected mode. Linux of course already runs in protected mode
[18:11:10] <wjp> but Kefka's not trying to run emm386 in linux
[18:11:35] <Colourless> um, wasn't he attempting to use DosEMU?
[18:11:47] <Kefka> i am about 30 minutes away from formatting this computer..
[18:11:56] <Kefka> if i can't get it working properly
[18:12:18] <Kefka> Colourless: haven't tried that yet
[18:12:32] <Colourless> ah ok
[18:12:34] <Colourless> :)
[18:12:35] <Kefka> Colourless: still trying to run it on a winme machine
[18:12:45] <wjp> maybe you can make a DOS bootdisk from Linux? There should be an image of a bootdisk online somewhere
[18:13:07] <Kefka> hmm theres a whole bunch of crap
[18:13:21] <Kefka> in this bootdisk's autoexec.bat file
[18:13:37] <Colourless> have you tried using device=c:\windows\emm386.exe NOEMS
[18:13:55] <wjp> I think UW needs EMS
[18:14:13] <Colourless> granted, it wont work for UW1, but it's just a test
[18:14:31] <Colourless> to see if you can boot your system with EMM386
[18:14:38] <Kefka> i will try that
[18:14:53] <Colourless> one thing, also make sure you've got your DOS drivers for your SB Live
[18:14:53] <Kefka> right now, i am rewriting the boot disk's config.sys and autoexec.bat files
[18:14:57] <Kefka> removing the RAMDisk
[18:14:58] <Kefka> etc
[18:16:06] <Colourless> if you didn't know the drivers should be in c:\prorgam files\creative\sblive\dosdrv
[18:16:17] <Kefka> yep, they are there
[18:16:29] <Kefka> sbinit.com complains for ems
[18:17:45] <Kefka> do i have to have a device=himem.sys in there too?
[18:17:46] <Colourless> it shouldn't want ems, it should just want emm386
[18:17:49] <Kefka> or the like
[18:17:57] <Colourless> you'll need himem
[18:19:26] <Kefka> gah.. why won't the palomino come out so i can finally get my new computer..
[18:20:11] <Kefka> i made the mistake of dir/s <filename> and it takes like 5 minutes on this 180
[18:27:43] * Colourless gets to work on fixing the animation syncronization issues in Exult.
[18:38:37] <Kefka> still working on getting it to work
[18:48:17] <wjp> I have to go
[18:48:18] <wjp> bye
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[19:16:59] <Kefka> um
[19:17:03] <Kefka> ...
[20:33:04] <Colourless> 'tis time for me to depart
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[21:25:19] <PoorCNewb> Hello
[21:25:38] <PoorCNewb> Goodbye
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[23:04:35] <sneezy> hello?
[23:06:39] <Kefka> hello
[23:08:50] <sneezy> hi... any chance you could help me w/ an U7 game question (running Exult)
[23:09:13] <Kefka> i can try.. although i doubt i will be of much use
[23:10:06] <sneezy> In Minoc, I can't seem to find either of the trainers... they never seem to be in their house... any idea if I have to do something to 'trigger' them?
[23:11:06] <Kefka> ugh.. sorry, i have no idea.. what os do you run?
[23:11:18] <sneezy> Linux...
[23:11:22] <Kefka> oh
[23:11:30] <sneezy> You?
[23:11:44] <Kefka> well, i was gonna suggest trying to play there in normal u7 and see, but..
[23:11:49] <Kefka> i run Linux as well
[23:12:18] <Kefka> i haven't played u7 much.. i am playing Underworld right now actually
[23:12:40] <sneezy> Yeah, I've debated doing this but going to the trouble of getting U7 to run (I recall it being a bitch even under DOS with mem requirements)
[23:12:59] <sneezy> Are you running UW under Linux? (drool... ;-)
[23:13:17] <Kefka> sneezy: nope.. i have a windows machine right next to my Linux one
[23:13:30] <Kefka> as far as getting u7 to work
[23:13:39] <Kefka> as long as you have a semi fast processor
[23:13:54] <Kefka> you can go here: http://members.iinet.net.au/~rsd/U7inWindows.html
[23:14:05] <Kefka> and run u7 under windows 9x
[23:14:39] <sneezy> aha... that will work (I have 98 & 2000 on other partitions)... thanks, I'll try it.
[23:15:00] <Kefka> np
[23:15:01] <Kefka> have fun
[23:15:06] <Kefka> oh
[23:15:07] <Kefka> wait
[23:15:16] <Kefka> it won't work on 2000 i don't think
[23:15:24] <Kefka> there is some notes about that on the page
[23:15:41] <Kefka> but should run great under 98
[23:16:16] <sneezy> np... I'll run it under 98. Can both U7 & UW run well under 98? (do I need any sort of speed reducing software etc.?)
[23:16:35] <Kefka> well, u7 shouldn't be a problem..
[23:16:47] <Kefka> as far as underworld, it shouldn't be a problem either.. although..
[23:16:59] <Kefka> the copy of UW i am running was installed from a PC Gamer CD
[23:17:14] <Kefka> i don't know if that differs from other versions..
[23:17:36] <Kefka> plus you have to make sure your sound card is compatible
[23:17:53] <sneezy> I've got the 'original' floppies from both games so I guess I'll find out soon enough. (I'm running a SB128)
[23:18:04] <Kefka> well, make sure if you play uw1
[23:18:11] <Kefka> that you install the inventory patch
[23:18:26] <Kefka> sb128 SHOULD work..
[23:18:45] <Kefka> hopefully it has sb16 emulation
[23:19:09] <sneezy> can I get the patch at EA's site? yep, it does emulation.
[23:20:00] <Kefka> sneezy: go here
[23:20:02] <Kefka> http://www.stygianabyss.com/uw/decomorono/index.htm
[23:20:49] <sneezy> cool... getting ready to reboot now... thanks!!!
[23:20:53] <Kefka> np
[23:20:55] <Kefka> later
[23:21:32] <sneezy> later
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