#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 9 Apr 2002 (GMT)

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[04:05:22] * Darke bows. Hi!
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[07:23:26] <wjp|work> hi
[07:23:57] <Darke> Hi.
[09:00:49] <Darke> Interesting: http://xu4.sourceforge.net/
[09:02:26] <Darke> Looks like someone's trying to remake U4.
[09:07:43] <wjp|work> wow, it's a whopping 25Kb :-)
[09:08:02] <Darke> Yeah. And it actually seems to work too. Compiled with no problems. <grin>
[09:08:08] <Darke> Even under gcc3.0.4!
[09:08:12] <wjp|work> nice
[09:08:47] <Darke> Now if only the font was a little smaller for the converstations and some more conversations worked and... umm...
[09:09:09] * Darke decides not to go there. He's got his paws full as it is with exult & pentagram. <grin>
[09:09:45] <wjp|work> *grin*
[09:10:47] * Darke is tempted to volunteer just to create a basic autoconf/automake system for it. But he knows that it wouldn't stop there. He'd be converting the entire thing to C++ before you know it. <grin>
[09:14:59] <Kirben> xu4 is interesting, compiles fine on win32 already.
[09:18:59] * Darke turns on all warnings and arughs! It's almost as bad as pentagram! <grin, duck>
[09:20:00] <Kirben> works too
[09:21:29] <Kirben> hmm I wonder if I should it add it to my snapshots collection
[09:22:34] * Darke hmms... he's using C type prototypes, which don't 'need' to be correct. This is going to be teadious to convert to C++... not that he's going to do so, of course.
[09:23:58] <Kirben> I wonder if all the ultima's will be ported one day.
[09:24:50] <Kirben> So far have 4,7 and 8 (in progess) plus 2 if you count the win port.
[09:25:04] <Darke> It might be worth adding it to the snapshots collection, just from the convenicent point of view. After all we already have pentagram/Ultima8 snapshots up there...
[09:25:29] <Darke> I'm sure 4 will support 5 quick enough, since IIRC the engines are so similar.
[09:25:35] <Kirben> did ultima 4-6 use similar engine ?
[09:25:47] <Kirben> or different each time
[09:26:02] <Darke> 6 didn't IIRC. But I remember someone saying in an interview that 4 and 5 used similar engines.
[09:26:29] <Kirben> hmm so 4 could turn into 5 too eventually.
[09:26:47] <Kirben> Someone once mentioned doing ultima 6 on here one day.
[09:27:09] <Kirben> but seen no sign of a project for it.
[09:27:23] <Darke> There's already a U6 look-alike engine out there, so it _probably_ wouldn't be so hard to coerce that to load the U6 data files.
[09:30:40] <Darke> You might want to drop this 'andrewtaylor' a line to see if he would like you to create windows snapshots and drop them on the exult page for him. I can't really see why he might _not_ want you too, but... <grin>
[09:31:27] <Kirben> yep plan to but would most likely put them on his sourceforce project site, easy to find that way.
[09:31:43] * Darke nods. Makes sense.
[09:32:06] <Kirben> I'm going ot try emailing programmer of ultima 2 win port too, would be good to see that go open source and updated to use new gfx set.
[09:34:09] <Kirben> darn no working email address
[09:34:10] <Darke> OTOP, you could just drop it onto exult's download page and just have a redirects sent there. If you look at it from the perspective of the forums, we already seem to becoming a 'center' of the Ultima remakes already...
[09:34:49] <Kirben> I guess, I will leave it up to programmer
[09:35:01] * Darke nods. Agreed.
[09:40:40] <Kirben> John Alderson was developer of ultima 2 win port, but where to find him.... last usenet work was back in 2000.
[09:40:47] <Kirben> work=post
[09:46:18] <Darke> Last release was 2000 too... and he seems not to have had much of an impact on the web otherwise, not in connection with ultima anyway.
[09:47:03] <Darke> http://ultima2.voyd.net/ Perhaps try and contact the people mentioned on this page to see if they have a valid address?
[09:47:19] * Darke does, however, expect them to have only the address posted with in that usenet post though.
[09:49:09] <Darke> Curious, from reading the readme, it sounds like he had his paws on the original source.
[09:49:12] <Kirben> dejanews is dead though...
[09:49:42] <Darke> <nod> And the redirectors and email accounts died a few months ago.
[09:52:01] <Kirben> maybe he disamblered ultima 2 source code ? ultima exe was smaller back then.
[09:52:21] <wjp|work> u2 is easy enough to disassemble
[09:52:22] <wjp|work> (I did it)
[09:53:57] <Kirben> can you disassemble to c/c++ or just asembly code ?
[09:54:17] <Darke> Fair enough. <grin>
[09:57:20] <Darke> Perhaps an odd question, but is size of the u2 binary greater then about 30k?
[09:58:35] <Kirben> I wonder why no one ever attempted straight ultima 1 port if disamble was so easy, was ultima 1 boring ?
[09:59:19] <Kirben> I have often heard people say ultima isn't interesting until 3
[09:59:35] * Darke never really played any of the early ultimas, he played 6 and found it boring, and a little of 4.
[10:00:29] <Darke> IIRC 3 was when the 'world' started to be more interesting, rather then just a place to kill monsters in.
[10:00:45] <Darke> Hasn't someone done a Java port of U1?
[10:02:26] <Kirben> u4 had a java port
[10:03:11] <Kirben> your right, ultima one too.
[10:03:23] <Kirben> http://www.chez.com/pgo/Ultima/U1/en_index.html
[10:05:18] * Darke really does wonder why people don't provide source to their programs, even if they don't put it in an Open Source licence. It just doesn't make sense to him.
[10:05:53] <Kirben> yep especially when they disappear...
[10:06:22] <Kirben> new sdl version should be out soon, pre-release stage.
[10:07:39] * Darke earperks. Maybe that'll fix that french keyboard bug, among other things.
[10:09:14] <Kirben> there is an international keyboard fix, only for win though.
[10:09:50] <Kirben> I could compile sdl 1.2.4cvs dll for win is someone wanted to test...
[10:11:46] <Kirben> hmm another ultima 4/5 port project (dragon engine) ? http://reconstruction.voyd.net/index.php?page=project&type=engines
[10:15:53] <Darke> Hmm... under files/databuf.h there's duplication of all the Read() and Write() functions from files/utils.h, and I can't see any reason why. I'll just replace the contents of the functions with a call to the utils.h Read() and Write() functions, unless there's a reason. <grin>
[10:16:46] <Darke> (dragon engine) <sigh> An no email address. Otherwise you could point him to this xu4.sf.net person. <grin>
[10:20:34] <Darke> Looks like that u7o project is mostly dead too, last set of commits was in September 2001.
[10:43:55] <Kirben> hmm is the dumpsavegame.c file to convert original save games ?
[10:44:03] <Kirben> in xu4 I mean
[10:47:03] <Darke> It wouldn't surprise me if he was using the original savegame format. I expect it would also be rather simple and well known.
[10:47:38] <Darke> If he isn't using the original savegame format in xu4, then I expect the answer would be 'no', from looking at the code.
[11:04:20] <Kirben> ok, just sent the email to developer.
[11:08:21] <Darke> Hmm... there looks to be a 'bug' with animdisp, you can keep pressing 'p' and it'll start playing again from the current position of the shape, rather then the center. Cool.
[11:08:49] <Darke> That is, provided the animation hasn't finished from the previous press of 'p'.
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[11:09:09] <wjp|work> hi
[11:09:16] <mcload> hello
[11:09:23] <Darke> Hi.
[11:12:02] <Kirben> Litmus Dragon is still around, will try emailing him about dragon engine. seems to have been dos only though
[11:15:28] <Kirben> ?seen Dominus
[11:15:28] <exultbot> dominus left IRC around Mon Apr 8 23:41:49 2002 (GMT) ("Exult! Exult! Exult!")
[11:16:29] <Darke> It's possible that the code may be only worth it's weight in documentation then, <grin> but I would guess it'd be better then nothing, especially if it is that similar to U4's engine.
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[12:00:28] <Dominus> hi
[12:00:30] <Dominus> Kirben: you asked for me?
[12:00:34] <Darke> Hi.
[12:01:09] <Kirben> Hi Dominus
[12:01:29] <Kirben> Dominus: Just wondering what you know about Dragon engine.
[12:01:45] <Dominus> It's discontinued
[12:01:46] <Kirben> Dominus: I saw one of your old usenet posts mention it.
[12:02:07] <Dominus> the guy who did it was kind of active in the dragons newsgroup
[12:02:39] <Dominus> but then he lost his websapce, thought of transferring to Sourceforge (I think, not sure)
[12:02:57] <Kirben> How well did it play U4/5 ?
[12:02:59] <Dominus> and he quit working on it
[12:03:40] <Dominus> I only tried it once and I think it wasn't exactly intended as playing them, only playing like them
[12:04:12] <Kirben> oh ok, thought it might have some useful info for xu4
[12:04:14] <Dominus> it looked a lot like the u4 graphics patch
[12:04:24] <Dominus> it might have
[12:05:40] <Dominus> that xu4 developer posted about xu4 last night on the ultima/dragons newsgroup, I looked at it and thought, well this might be something for Kireben to port :-)
[12:05:50] <Dominus> Kirben even :-)
[12:06:01] <Kirben> btw want a copy of xu4 win32 version ?
[12:06:16] <Dominus> yeah, why not :-)
[12:07:05] <Dominus> thx
[12:07:25] <Dominus> ok, have to go again, see you tomorrow
[12:07:37] <Kirben> cya
[12:07:41] <Dominus> bye
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[12:12:12] <Colourless> hi
[12:20:20] <wjp|work> hi
[12:27:23] <Darke> Hi.
[12:44:06] <Colourless> it's about time the news got updated
[12:47:56] <Darke> With what? <grin> That you've managed to write something to decode the U8 sounds?
[12:48:16] <Colourless> with anything
[12:48:36] <Colourless> the news is 'meant' to be updated weekly :-)
[12:49:16] <Darke> I'm sure some new things have happened with exult_studio. That 'new game' works. Oh, and that Dominus has updated all the FAQs, not that that's important, since few people seem to read them. <grin>
[13:41:22] <wjp|work> *sigh*... I'm bored
[13:42:17] <wjp|work> hmm... oops, shouldn't have said that...
[13:42:25] <wjp|work> work to do now :-)
[13:42:25] * Darke grins.
[13:47:10] <-- Kirben has left IRC ("System Meltdown")
[13:47:45] * Darke is currently in the middle of juggling an XFree86 compile. He's currently experiencing the "I'm bored, but I really, REALLY don't want to be non-bored, since if I do get non-bored, it means that the compile has broken, which is bad" type of boredom.
[13:53:22] <wjp|work> lol
[13:53:56] * wjp|work just had to reboot another stupid winnt machine which has lost its network connection
[13:54:10] <wjp|work> ...after replacing a graphics card and 2 CPU fans
[13:54:16] <wjp|work> what a great day... *sigh*
[13:54:28] <Darke> Sounds... umm... fun. <grin>
[13:55:04] <Colourless> winnt what fun :-)
[13:59:21] * Darke is 'unboreding' himself by trying to elegantly design his usecode cache to allow for loading the usecode in both raw and 'cooked' mode. <grin> Like he said, he's bored.
[14:00:05] <Colourless> well, go help wjp :-)
[14:03:51] <Darke> wjp|work: I don't suppose where you work has a computer related position open? I'm _quite_ happy to disappear off to another country to find work, it's a pain to find it here. <grin, duck>
[14:04:37] <wjp|work> I'm just working at the helpdesk at my math department.
[14:04:57] <wjp|work> kind of boring but it has its good points (root access ;-), pay is quite good, ...)
[14:05:41] <wjp|work> and the 100Mbit internet connection + CD writer is nice too, of course :-)
[14:07:21] * Darke is actually going for a temporary helpdesk position at the uni he's enrolled at tommorrow. <grin> A couple of the staff are disappearing on vacation simultaneously and they need an extra pair of paws.
[14:10:04] <Darke> Unfortunately, it's literally 'front desk', so I suspect irc and sundry are probably not something I'll be able to do whilst I'm there. <grin>
[14:12:12] <wjp|work> pity :/
[14:14:57] <Darke> Incidentally, is anyone else having problems with `./display`? It keeps segfaulting for me in the fseek() function when it tries to start, and I haven't been able to nail down exactly why.
[14:15:22] <Darke> bt is available on request.
[14:19:09] * Colourless investigates
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[14:27:40] <wjp|work> hi
[14:28:02] <Darke> Hi.
[14:28:05] <Colourless> hi
[14:28:41] <Colourless> darke: no crashes in display here. must be your crappy os or something *ducks*
[14:29:20] * wjp|work slaps Colourless
[14:30:20] * Darke snickers.
[14:32:01] <Darke> I suspect it's something to do with gcc3 since it's crashing in libc.so.6, someone would need to check it against an older version of gcc to see if it crashes or not, then I can work from there. <grin>
[14:32:57] * Darke checked all the obvious things like the file being open, no null pointers and such, it's just a bit puzzling.
[14:47:38] * Darke must disappear off to worship the goddess of 'Z's, so he's nice and rested for his interview tommorrow. "Night! Have fun! <grin>"
[14:47:48] <wjp|work> night, good luck tomorrow
[14:47:49] <Colourless> bye
[14:47:54] <Darke> Thanks.
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[14:59:11] <wjp|work> time for me to go home
[14:59:12] <wjp|work> bbl
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[18:02:20] <wjp> hi again
[18:02:26] <Cless|Away> hi
[18:02:39] <wjp> hmm... Geneforge arrived today :-)
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[18:02:45] * wjp curses his homework
[18:04:23] <Colourless> :-)
[18:06:09] * wjp finally compiled exult on a solaris machine again
[18:06:35] <wjp> I cleaned up part of that horrible gtk/libglade conditional mess to get it to compile
[18:06:36] <Colourless> hmm, does it work?
[18:06:43] * wjp nods
[18:06:55] <wjp> I still have to commit a few minor changes, though
[18:07:06] <Colourless> how well does exult run on such a machine?
[18:07:13] <wjp> horribly slow
[18:07:47] <wjp> (and that's at 320x200x1)
[18:07:57] <wjp> even moving the mouse is laggy
[18:08:07] <wjp> (and I do mean _laggy_)
[18:08:10] <Colourless> i'm guessing graphics aren't really something solaris is known best for :-)
[18:08:37] <wjp> it doesn't really help that it's running on a thin client, either, I guess
[18:09:47] * wjp does a diff against the current cvs
[18:10:15] <wjp> hm, a signed/unsigned change in pngio.cc, an extra include <cstring> inVideoOptions_gump.cc
[18:11:59] <Colourless> ooh wow such substantial changes :-)
[18:12:03] <wjp> indeed :-)
[18:12:15] <wjp> maybe I should wait until after 1.0 ;-)
[18:12:51] <Colourless> that signed unsigned business could get you into all sort of trouble :-)
[18:13:46] <Colourless> i think you should wait it out. :-)
[18:14:11] <Colourless> i could be mistaken, but i don't think solaris is our primary targetted platform... or am i mistaken?
[18:14:50] <wjp> png_get_oFFs takes two png_uint_32&'s. We pass two png_int_32&'s... clearly wrong, I'd say :-)
[18:15:10] <Colourless> indeed
[18:15:22] <wjp> (of course, they're assigned to two int's later on...)
[18:15:51] <wjp> but that'll only cause problem when we're creating images larger than 2 billion pixels
[18:16:01] <wjp> so I'm guessing that should be fairly safe :-)
[18:16:06] <Colourless> no one said the code had to make sense :-)
[18:16:37] <wjp> thank god for that :-)
[18:17:00] <wjp> uh oh
[18:17:18] <wjp> that function takes two png_int_32's here
[18:17:22] <Colourless> problems jim>
[18:17:51] <Colourless> yay for keeping an api constant across multiple platforms
[18:18:46] <wjp> hm, using version 1.0.2 on the solaris machine, 1.2.0 here
[18:19:30] <Colourless> one wonders why they would go from using uints to ints
[18:19:50] <wjp> it's for variables named 'offsetX' and 'offsetY'
[18:20:21] <Colourless> hmm, such a thing might want to be negetive
[18:28:26] <wjp> hm, what is that stuff about "Win2k compatibility mode" on the forum?
[18:29:18] <Colourless> what do you mean?
[18:29:24] <Colourless> i've no clue why that would work
[18:32:18] * wjp is getting kind of hungry
[18:32:23] <wjp> time for dinner I guess
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[19:12:08] <Colourless> i wonder how well all these ultima remakes using the dungeon siege engine are going to fare. Everyone is saying that DS is a hack'n'slash action rpg and compare it to the likes of Diablo (2) and Icewind Dale... games that are very much not like ultimas
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[19:19:20] * wjp hasn't read too much about DS
[19:19:27] <wjp> I'm curious too, though
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[19:52:07] <freedman> Hello wjp, colourless
[19:52:15] <Cless|Away> hi
[19:52:59] <freedman> I'm only here for a bit, but wanted to add some info. about the libpng signed/unsigned problem.
[19:55:07] <freedman> They should be signed, as in the newer versions of libpng, since they can be negative.
[19:55:32] <freedman> I'm pretty sure that the 'unsigned' declarations were a bug.
[19:56:21] <wjp> hi Jeff
[19:56:28] <freedman> Hi
[19:57:02] * wjp nods. Sounds like it, yes
[19:58:05] <wjp> btw, what would you like to make the default savegame/gamedat paths?
[19:58:09] <freedman> Maybe we should check the PNG version # in our code and try to make it work either way.
[19:58:35] <wjp> freedman: nah, libpng 1.2 has been out long enough. Not worth the effort, probably
[19:58:56] <freedman> You mean, something like $HOME/.exult? I haven't thought much about it yet.
[19:59:17] * wjp nods
[19:59:44] <freedman> Maybe we should get Nadir's opinion; he's pretty knowledgeable about Unix stuff.
[19:59:49] <wjp> true
[20:00:00] <wjp> this is something to do before 1.0, btw, IMHO
[20:00:02] <freedman> Are you implementing this now?
[20:00:09] <wjp> no, it's already in
[20:00:30] <wjp> (well, not the different defaults, but that's a 1 line patch)
[20:00:35] <freedman> :-)
[20:00:50] <freedman> What is the default?
[20:00:57] <wjp> Paul Hebble submitted a patch for it a few days ago
[20:01:28] <wjp> default savegame dir = <gamedir>/, default gamedat dir = <gamedir>/gamedat/
[20:01:28] <freedman> Right; I just thought he said it wasn't finished.
[20:01:35] <wjp> that part is
[20:01:52] <wjp> he also added a customizable static dir, but that's still buggy
[20:02:14] <wjp> (because the is_installed() methods have the 'static' part of the path hardcoded)
[20:04:04] <freedman> So it could be $HOME/.exult/bg for saves, $HOME/.exult/bg/gamedat. But Windows could stay like it is now.
[20:04:24] * wjp nods
[20:04:27] <freedman> Maybe we should ask on the mailing list..
[20:04:45] <wjp> we should also allow reading the config file from ~/.exult/exult.cfg
[20:04:52] <wjp> (if it exists)
[20:05:00] <freedman> Yes, good idea.
[20:05:13] <freedman> Guess I'll have to fiddle with ExultStudio too for this.
[20:05:52] <freedman> But, I have to go back to a meeting:-(
[20:06:05] <wjp> sounds like fun :/
[20:06:09] <wjp> bye
[20:06:14] <freedman> See ya
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[21:22:34] <Colourless> time to go
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