#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 9 Apr 2003 (GMT)

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[05:33:50] * Eclair is away: Lain....
[05:37:59] <Servus> Lain is God!
[05:38:15] <Eclair> hehe
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[07:28:52] <ShadwChsr> hello :)
[07:54:46] <Servus> HIYA
[07:54:48] <Servus> hiya*
[07:56:12] <ShadwChsr> :)
[07:56:14] <ShadwChsr> Question for ya
[07:56:31] <Servus> yep?
[07:56:37] <ShadwChsr> I have a private static member, which is a list (stl)
[07:56:49] <ShadwChsr> the class is a template
[07:56:50] <ShadwChsr> static list<T*> m_Autolist;
[07:57:02] <ShadwChsr> fairly straightforward
[07:57:28] <ShadwChsr> problem is, the second I try to use that list in a constructor or destructor, I get a leak.. even if I never even instansiate the class...
[07:57:38] <ShadwChsr> I commented out ALL of my source code and headers and I still got the leak!!!
[07:57:43] <ShadwChsr> Autolist() { m_Autolist.size(); } <- causes a leak
[07:57:48] <ShadwChsr> why? compiler bug?
[07:57:50] <ShadwChsr> :(
[07:58:13] <DarkeZzz> If you run m_Autolist.size(); multiple times, do you get a larger and larger leak?
[07:59:30] <Servus> im not sure about this list template, but have you looked for a delete or release method?
[07:59:37] <Servus> m_Autolist.release();/
[07:59:55] <ShadwChsr> no
[07:59:57] <DarkeZzz> What compiler too?
[08:00:09] <Servus> what include contains this template? do i have it?
[08:00:11] <ShadwChsr> Visual Studio .NET 2002 (not the new one that is released in a week)
[08:00:16] <ShadwChsr> no
[08:00:34] <Servus> look for a release or delete function, or even try the delete[] command, it might be overloaded correctly?
[08:00:58] <ShadwChsr> why would I want to release or delete it? <confused>
[08:01:02] <Servus> im using a version of my engine to make a simple marble-madness type game :-)
[08:01:14] <Servus> youd delete it when youre done with it, so it doesnt become a memory leak!
[08:01:29] <ShadwChsr> its not a pointer though
[08:01:37] <Servus> so?
[08:01:49] <Servus> CUnknown::Release() :)
[08:01:59] <DarkeZzz> ShadwChsr: If you run the .size() method multiple times, and there's no extra memory loss associated with it. What you're seeing is probably similar to the global memory pool similar to what is used by most std::string implementations.
[08:02:17] <ShadwChsr> not sure what you mean Darke :)
[08:02:32] <Servus> shadw, just try doing m_AutoList.Release(); and see what you get
[08:02:49] <ShadwChsr> Theres no release method! I wrote the class myself ;P
[08:02:57] <Servus> what about the template?
[08:03:03] <ShadwChsr> class, template, same thing :)
[08:03:16] <Servus> absolutely everything youre using, you made yourself?
[08:03:22] <ShadwChsr> I based it on an article in a book on how to do an Autolist design pattern
[08:03:23] <Servus> heh, then you should know best of all whats wrong :P
[08:03:33] <ShadwChsr> But I heavily modified it, and wrote it from the ground up
[08:03:51] <ShadwChsr> Not only that, but I removed EVERYTHING except for the static member variable and the constructor, same deal ;P
[08:04:13] <ShadwChsr> Heck, i commented out all of my code & includes, and even having that .H file in my code, unused, causes the leak! its weird ;P
[08:04:42] <ShadwChsr> I reduced my code down to only the main function, and the compiler specific leak check debug function :)
[08:04:45] <ShadwChsr> thats it hehe
[08:04:45] <Servus> you get a memory leak with nothing more than int main ( void ) { return 0; } ? :P
[08:04:52] <ShadwChsr> yes
[08:04:58] <Servus> then why do you think its your code? :P
[08:05:20] <ShadwChsr> Because if I change Autolist() { m_Autolist.size(); } to Autolist() { }, leak goes away :)
[08:05:32] <ShadwChsr> the .size() line is just there as a test, btw, since I had a more complicated expression there before
[08:05:42] <Servus> that doesnt make sense... you said you arent even including the contested code
[08:06:12] <DarkeZzz> Umm... ok, with most implmenetaions of the std::string template, the strings employ 'copy on write' semantics with reference counting, to safe space in memory, and to speed up copying. So for example something like string1 = string2; isn't a much of a performance penalty as you might think, since internally both strings point to the same data segment, and only if you do something like string1+="foo" does the internal string data get copied and mo
[08:06:12] <DarkeZzz> dified. This of course need some sort of 'global' data space.
[08:06:15] <ShadwChsr> I know it doesn't make sense, but yet it's happening... which is very weird. I figured it was some weird c++ thing I didnt know about
[08:06:35] <ShadwChsr> ahhhh makes sense darke
[08:07:23] <Servus> glRotatef sucks!
[08:07:54] <Servus> sure sure they say its glRotatef (GLfloat angle, GLfloat x, GLfloat y, GLfloat z); but it might as well be glRotatef (GLfloat angle, bool x, bool y, bool z); Bah!!!
[08:08:20] <ShadwChsr> You'd think that a static stl list would be fairly common though... ;/
[08:08:27] <DarkeZzz> It's possible that internally the std::list template that you're using, has some sort of global data space inside it, where it caches lookups or something. Can't tell without actually looking. Now in some implementations the global data may be left in memory, until the program terminates, rather then being cleaned up by the destruction of the last instance of a class (which is logical) so that may be what you're seeing.
[08:08:47] <ShadwChsr> I'm wondering if having a static in a template is causing it.. hmm
[08:08:56] <Servus> std::list... shadw said he was only using things he created himself =-/
[08:10:19] <ShadwChsr> I meant my class ;P
[08:10:21] <DarkeZzz> He amended it to saying he wrote everything but the constructor and the static member variable, which was the std::list.
[08:10:57] <Servus> what header is that template in?
[08:12:10] <ShadwChsr> one I wrote
[08:12:18] <ShadwChsr> here, its like 8 lines, lemme paste it ;P
[08:12:28] <ShadwChsr> template <class T>
[08:12:31] <ShadwChsr> class Autolist
[08:12:36] <ShadwChsr> {
[08:12:39] <ShadwChsr> public:
[08:12:46] <ShadwChsr> Autolist() { m_Autolist.size(); }
[08:12:51] <ShadwChsr> private:
[08:12:56] <ShadwChsr> static list<T*> m_Autolist;
[08:13:00] <ShadwChsr> }
[08:13:09] <ShadwChsr> (err make that }; .. :-)
[08:13:13] <ShadwChsr> template<class T>
[08:13:18] <ShadwChsr> list<T*> Autolist<T>::m_Autolist;
[08:13:19] <ShadwChsr> .. thats it
[08:13:20] <ShadwChsr> :)
[08:13:25] <ShadwChsr> list = stl list
[08:14:23] <Servus> honestly i have no idea how to use templates ;)
[08:15:40] <Servus> http://sourcepost.sytes.net ? :-p
[08:15:57] <ShadwChsr> well, when I inherit the autolist class I just do something like.. DescendantClass : Autolist<DescendantClass>
[08:16:38] <ShadwChsr> the "T" in the code I just posted gets replaced by whatevers in the <>... so in this case, DescendantClass
[08:19:39] <ShadwChsr> I wonder....
[08:20:07] <ShadwChsr> my Visual C++ leak checking code is before the return 0; in main()
[08:20:31] <ShadwChsr> so... correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't static variables be released at app termination, which is the return 0;?
[08:20:42] <ShadwChsr> so if my leak checking code executes before then... ;)
[08:20:55] <Servus> how about this
[08:21:09] <Servus> just check your system ram, then make your class load up 100mb of ram, then check your ram after you quit
[08:21:28] <DarkeZzz> ShadwChsr: Yes, static variables are released after the main function returns.
[08:29:07] <ShadwChsr> woohoo I was right :)
[08:29:33] <ShadwChsr> I found another way to do it, theres a function I can call at the start of the app that tells it to debug the memory leaks once the app has terminated at any location
[08:29:36] <ShadwChsr> Thanks :)
[08:30:01] <DarkeZzz> Yay!
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[08:36:14] <ShadwChsr> is there some nice internal c++ (std?) function that gives me the call stack?
[08:36:23] <ShadwChsr> When my app crashes I want to fire it out in a dialog box like C# does ;P
[08:39:27] <DarkeZzz> Check the MFC libraries. I think there's probably one there.
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[10:29:51] <`daniel> Hello
[10:30:04] <Quester> hi
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[12:36:43] * Yuv422 got lonely sitting in the #nuvie channel.
[12:38:21] <Darke> That's what it gets like sitting on #pentagram too, which I guess is why a significant chunk of pentagram conversation happened/happens here too. *grin*
[12:40:41] <Yuv422> I've started the message scroll code in Nuvie now. :)
[12:41:10] <Yuv422> you can now go around "Looking" at everything. Original U6 style
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[12:41:23] <Yuv422> I've just got to add page break support.
[12:41:29] <Darke> Cool.
[12:41:36] <Yuv422> so you can read the books etc.
[12:42:00] <Yuv422> I was thinking of have a scrollback buffer too. :)
[12:42:33] <Yuv422> as I would often forget what an NPC had said after it scrolled off the message window.
[12:43:00] <Yuv422> which is a measly 10 lines big. :(
[12:44:01] <Darke> That's *just* a bit on the small side. Stop reminding me of precicely why I didn't like U6. *grin*
[12:44:44] <Yuv422> I was thinking of expanding the message scroll horizontally when talking to NPCs in Nuvie.
[12:45:41] * daniel` hides
[12:46:05] <Yuv422> :)
[12:47:03] * Darke expands daniel horizontally instead.
[12:48:13] <daniel`> :-/
[12:48:28] <Darke> daniel`: It's a bit more difficult to hide now. *grin*
[12:49:00] <daniel`> ahh well... what can I do?
[12:49:19] <daniel`> I feel so depressed :(
[12:49:31] <daniel`> some meanie stole my wallet during a test
[12:49:35] <daniel`> a cisco test!
[12:49:40] <Yuv422> :(
[12:50:47] <daniel`> the police don
[12:50:53] <daniel`> believe me either
[12:51:23] <daniel`> I need an event number so if somebody uses my cards, im not responsible
[12:51:38] * Darke calls daniel`.OnClick to try and undepress him. Icky.
[12:52:03] <daniel`> :-(
[12:52:11] <daniel`> ahh well
[12:52:24] <daniel`> some sleep should help
[12:52:45] <Darke> Ok. Goodnight and rest well!
[12:53:01] <daniel`> hehe, k
[12:53:07] <daniel`> goodnight to yous too
[12:53:11] * Darke bows.
[12:53:12] * daniel` parts
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[12:55:47] * Darke , for reference, denies *ever* programming in anything as icky as Visual Basic. *noddle*
[12:56:26] <Yuv422> what's that Darke!? You're remaking Exult in VB!.... really!
[12:58:02] * Darke imagines trying to write a usecode intepreter in visual basic and ewwwwwws! How horrible!
[12:58:46] * Darke quickly denies knowing how to write code in visual basic, so he can't have imagined trying to write a usecode interpreter in it! It's all in your imagination! Really!
[13:01:58] <Yuv422> wow origin really is a vapour company now.
[13:02:09] <Yuv422> nothing on their webpage
[13:02:18] <Darke> Which one?
[13:02:28] <Yuv422> the ea page
[13:02:58] <Yuv422> http://www.origin.ea.com/
[13:03:09] * Darke actually had dig through the wayback machine to get any of the old origin webpages, for the old crusader stuff. It's rather depressing that such a broad company now is just 'Ultima Online'.
[13:03:36] <Darke> Yeah, nothing but UO on it.
[13:05:02] <Darke> They're advertising three jobs there though, so they aren't *completely* dead, just near dead. *grin*
[13:06:15] <Darke> "Take this opportunity to join ORIGIN Systems, the undisputed leader in online entertainment software and home of such acclaimed titles as Wing Commander and Ultima Online." Wing Commander? For such an acclaimed title, you'd think they'd have *some* mention of it on their webpage other then in the 'jobs' section...
[13:06:45] <Darke> Ahh, there's also a footnote about it in the 'about' page.
[13:07:22] <Darke> Which I think is a little out of date, isn't there another expansion for UO after "blackthorn's revenge"?
[13:07:40] <Yuv422> hehe wing commander!? what's that..... Oh wait.. that was the old 'good' origin. ;)
[13:08:52] <Darke> Hmm... and none of the 'ORIGIN Studio Managment' team are pre-UO either.
[13:09:10] <Yuv422> I was ready an article about the game producer Techmo getting upset with fans producing nude patches for Dead or alive Beach vollyball. ;)
[13:09:40] <Yuv422> come on Techmo? 'who are you're games targeted at?'
[13:11:11] <Darke> You've got to be kidding. *grin* I read an article about it before the game was released and he was asked about any 'nude' mode, where he "no commented" about it. Surely he has to expect that would have happened. *grin*
[13:14:11] <Darke> It's not as if it's a particularly good game anyway. If you're *that* desperate for bouncing, anime-styled breasts, surely you could purchase three or four anime or hentai dvds for the price of purchasing that game. *grin*
[13:14:58] <Yuv422> hehehe
[13:15:44] <Yuv422> I think the game would be more accessable to young teenage boys than say explicit Jap hentai.
[13:15:57] <Yuv422> and hey most ppl hate subtitles too. :(
[13:17:15] * Yuv422 remembers the uni anime club. ;)
[13:19:50] <Darke> *shrug* There's plenty of dubbed anime around in .au, I only choose subbed anime because in most cases I dislike the dubbed voices. And it's not as if most people seem to notice the R+ rating on a 'cartoon' dvd anyway, I saw Urotsukidoji sitting between two disney releases at more then one store. *grin*
[13:20:37] <Yuv422> I only really watch subbed stuff now. :)
[13:21:30] <Yuv422> have you seen escaflone?
[13:21:44] <Darke> I tried to watch a friend's dubbed copy of Ghost In The Shell, the voice of the whatever-her-name-is was *so* wrong I stopped it about a third through the movie and purchased the dvd the next day. *shudder*
[13:22:21] <Darke> Nope. I've only just started to acquire a anime collection recently. It's still a bit limited and I haven't even had a chance to watch all of it yet. *grin*
[13:23:26] <Yuv422> ah k well lots of good viewing ahead of you then. ;)
[13:24:01] <Kirben> Madman are sure really a stack of anime in Australia now, just a shame there aren't more companies like them.
[13:24:20] <Kirben> releasing I mean
[13:24:49] <Yuv422> yeah they are better than that manga company ;)
[13:26:51] <Kirben> Yep, their releases of NGE movies from Manga were much better.
[13:51:36] * Darke sleeps. Night!
[13:51:44] --- Darke is now known as DarkeZzz
[13:54:07] <Yuv422> cya
[14:11:43] <Yuv422> time for bed
[14:11:46] <Yuv422> cya
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[15:36:58] <wjp> hi
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[15:52:57] <Fingolfin> yo
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[17:12:05] <sbx> hi
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[17:22:48] <sbx> hello artaxerxes
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[17:25:30] <sbx> bye
[17:25:35] <sbx> :P
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[17:31:36] <artaxerxes> nack to normal!
[17:31:43] <sbx> hehe
[17:31:44] <artaxerxes> s/nack/back
[17:31:52] <sbx> wb
[17:31:54] <wjp> hi
[17:31:58] <artaxerxes> I saw the posts but I couldn't post anything!
[17:32:00] <artaxerxes> thx
[17:32:02] <artaxerxes> hi all
[17:32:27] <artaxerxes> Kirc must be b0rken in Mandrake 9.1
[17:32:41] * artaxerxes is using BitchX for the first time
[17:33:02] * wjp much prefers irssi to bitchx
[17:33:11] <artaxerxes> anyhoo, I've got a translation question. The english phrase make no sense at all
[17:33:20] <Fingolfin> irssi rulez =)
[17:33:30] * artaxerxes is now curiou
[17:33:32] <wjp> hi Max
[17:33:39] <Fingolfin> hi Willem
[17:33:42] <Fingolfin> wjp: been on osnews.com recently? <g>
[17:33:47] <wjp> no
[17:33:50] <wjp> not ever, actually :-)
[17:34:03] <wjp> ah, cool :-)
[17:34:24] <wjp> speaking of which... did you read the thread on the forum about compiling LoW on MacOSX?
[17:34:52] * wjp reads interview
[17:35:02] <artaxerxes> Max: neato!
[17:35:41] * artaxerxes just finished installing irssi
[17:36:02] <wjp> artaxerxes: so what was that phrase you needed help with? :-)
[17:37:02] <artaxerxes> let me connect with irssi and I'll tell you! :-)
[17:37:15] <wjp> :-)
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[17:38:25] * artaxerxes is SOOO used to graphical IRC clients... I'm a bit lost!
[17:38:34] <artaxerxes> anyways, the phrase is:
[17:38:43] <artaxerxes> the implements th'
[17:38:55] <artaxerxes> ree of the Hierophant
[17:39:02] <artaxerxes> the implements three of the Hierophant
[17:39:15] <artaxerxes> (sorry for the repeat)
[17:39:18] <wjp> an implement is a synbol of one's trade, or something like that
[17:39:23] <wjp> s/synbol/symbol/
[17:39:25] <artaxerxes> it's in the book of prophecies
[17:39:49] <wjp> although more I guess in a bit more practical sense than a symbol
[17:39:58] <artaxerxes> well, I know what is an implement. It's the structure of the phrase that leaves me perplex
[17:40:15] <wjp> three is behind implements as a ... poetic/stylistic ... something
[17:40:20] <artaxerxes> ahhhhh
[17:40:23] <artaxerxes> I see
[17:40:32] <sbx> Listen to me these riddles three!
[17:40:36] <artaxerxes> we have similar things in french
[17:40:40] * sbx shudders.
[17:40:41] <sbx> heh
[17:40:47] <artaxerxes> good job sbx
[17:40:48] <artaxerxes> ;-)
[17:41:02] <sbx> ty ty
[17:41:03] <wjp> are there any english words for this phenomenon?
[17:41:15] <wjp> in dutch I'd call it a 'stijlfiguur'
[17:41:20] <artaxerxes> transposition >
[17:41:32] <artaxerxes> french: figure de style!
[17:41:57] <wjp> that's probably the same term, yes :-)
[17:42:22] <artaxerxes> btw, any news from the o'reilly dude and his interview ?
[17:42:44] <armchair_avatar> stylistic device
[17:42:45] <artaxerxes> he published sth about scummvm not too long ago
[17:43:11] <artaxerxes> armchair_avatar: thx ! :-)
[17:44:36] <Fingolfin> wjp: sorry got distract, no I read no forum threads recently...
[17:44:38] * Fingolfin goes looking
[17:45:01] <wjp> Fingolfin: they are apparently having huge amounts of trouble getting configure to find fink-installed libraries
[17:45:24] <Fingolfin> what's LoW anyway, and who is "they" ?
[17:45:28] <wjp> Fingolfin: hm, although the last post seems to indicate the problem's been solved
[17:45:36] <wjp> LoW = Coren's UW2 rewrite
[17:45:38] <Fingolfin> ah, Low
[17:45:39] <Fingolfin> yeah yeah
[17:45:41] <Fingolfin> now I remember
[17:47:22] <artaxerxes> Max: not owing a Mac, I don't understand what fink is used for.
[17:47:36] <artaxerxes> could you explain it to me?
[17:48:25] <Fingolfin> http://fink.sourceforge.net/about.php
[17:50:29] <artaxerxes> the problem is in the first line: what is Darwin!
[17:50:51] <wjp> the open source part of osx, IIRC
[17:50:57] <artaxerxes> ahh
[17:51:23] <artaxerxes> in this case, what is Jaguar ?
[17:51:32] <wjp> a version of osx
[17:51:39] <sbx> i thought Darwin was the X server?
[17:51:39] <wjp> 10.2 or something?
[17:52:03] <wjp> http://developer.apple.com/darwin/projects/darwin/faq.html
[17:53:06] <Fingolfin> Jaguar is 10.2, yes
[17:53:30] <Fingolfin> Cheeta was a previous version, so was Puma
[17:53:36] <Fingolfin> Panther is the upcoming 10.3
[17:53:44] <Fingolfin> you might notice a pattern there =)
[17:53:45] <artaxerxes> and cocoa and carbon are like what Motif, GTK and Qt is to X ?
[17:53:50] <wjp> I think I see a pattern there :-)
[17:54:04] <Fingolfin> artaxerxes: uhm, very crudely, you might say that
[17:54:09] <artaxerxes> I spotted the pattern too! :-)
[17:54:24] <Fingolfin> if you then say X ~ Quartz... but it's really a very far fetched comparision =)
[17:54:32] <sbx> wjp: thanks for that link
[17:54:42] <wjp> there are quite a lot of people with MacOSX laptops at our math department lately
[17:55:08] <Fingolfin> hehe
[17:56:05] <wjp> I think the majority of laptops there runs MacOSX, even
[17:56:33] <wjp> followed by Linux and WinXP
[17:57:00] <wjp> nice interview, btw
[17:57:01] <artaxerxes> since there is darwin, what's the use for Fink? not trying to be rude, just wondering.
[17:57:19] <wjp> darwin is just a (part of a) OS
[17:57:31] <wjp> you need a lot of things on top of that
[17:58:11] <wjp> s/need/want/, maybe
[18:02:03] <artaxerxes> wjp: I use "symboles" to replace "implements". I guess it makes sense this way! =P
[18:05:37] * wjp nods :-)
[18:05:46] <wjp> getting close to finishing it?
[18:06:06] <artaxerxes> 5 lines and I'm finished translating my book! :-)
[18:06:28] <artaxerxes> still 1 full to do plus KK's 1/2 done book
[18:06:36] <artaxerxes> and 2 witches
[18:07:07] <Fingolfin> artaxerxes: think of darwin as of a bare linux system with just the kernel and maybe a shell and fileutils... nothing else... don't mix up a distro (Redhat, debian, gentoo, Mandrake, etc.) with the OS itself
[18:07:38] <Fingolfin> darwin doesn#t contain X11, GTK, KDE, SDL, and millions (err, well, thousands :-) of other things
[18:10:30] <wjp> you could probably argue millions too, if you have too :-)
[18:11:06] <wjp> of course you'd have to start talking about things that it doesn't contain because it can't possibly contain them
[18:11:28] <artaxerxes> I see
[18:11:40] <wjp> e.g., an average star or planet or something probably won't fit in darwin :-)
[18:12:09] <artaxerxes> my book is done!
[18:12:18] <artaxerxes> one more file to remove from the list!
[18:13:04] <artaxerxes> wjp: about irssi, what does the bottom blue bar indicate at the extreme right ?
[18:13:19] <artaxerxes> I read [Act: 2]
[18:13:20] <wjp> what does it say there?
[18:13:23] <wjp> oh, active
[18:13:33] <wjp> that means that window 2 has had activity since you were last there
[18:13:50] <artaxerxes> there are several windows?
[18:14:03] <wjp> you can switch windows with alt-1/alt-2/alt-3/...
[18:14:15] <artaxerxes> ohh
[18:14:16] <artaxerxes> nice
[18:14:17] <wjp> or you can use Ctrl-N to go to the next one
[18:14:38] <artaxerxes> also, I see [3:#exult(+nt)]
[18:14:59] <wjp> window number, channel name, channel mode
[18:15:05] <artaxerxes> chan mode ?
[18:15:32] <wjp> that channel mode :-)
[18:15:55] <artaxerxes> I don't understand what it means!
[18:16:05] <wjp> they're flags that can be set on the channel
[18:16:06] * artaxerxes isn't really knowledgable
[18:16:11] <wjp> +t means only ops can set the topic
[18:16:41] <wjp> I kind of forgot what +n is :-)
[18:16:49] <artaxerxes> :-)
[18:16:53] <wjp> may be that the channel won't accept messages from people not in it or something
[18:17:20] <wjp> there are also modes like secret, private, invite-only, max. usercount, channel key, ...
[18:19:22] <artaxerxes> talking about gaming, thanks to Dosbox, scummvm, exult, nuvie, ufo2000, etc, there are now so many games you can play on Linux!
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[18:22:29] <artaxerxes> brb
[18:27:36] <artaxerxes> b
[18:35:15] <sbx> wb
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[22:28:10] <wjp> I should go; g'night
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[22:41:56] * Eclair is away: going to see a musical YEAY!!!
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[23:37:44] <Yuv422> hi
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