#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 9 Feb 2001 (GMT)

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[02:17:35] <Vexus> hello all, i just happened upon Exult today
[02:17:43] <Vexus> while searching for an Ultima-theme Windows Desktop setting
[02:18:15] <Vexus> is anyone actively here?
[02:23:18] <Vexus> guess not
[02:23:20] <Vexus> ciao
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[08:09:11] <Kirben> Hi
[08:09:22] <wjp> hi
[08:09:53] <Kirben> Should I get an alpha 2 win32 binary ready yet ? or too early ?
[08:10:50] <wjp> no, the linux version has already been released
[08:11:02] <wjp> (so, yes, you should, and no, it's not too early :-) )
[08:13:21] <Kirben> ok
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[08:35:37] <wjp> hi
[08:36:48] <Kirben> files ready, now just need to work out how to upload/release it
[08:36:56] <Kirben> Hi Nadir
[08:37:03] <Nadir> hi
[08:38:29] <Nadir> We have released !
[08:38:37] <wjp> yup :-)
[08:39:54] <Nadir> I'll make a Timidity binary.
[08:40:37] <wjp> Kirben, if you put the file online somewhere, I'll put it on SF
[08:41:11] <wjp> (or try to put it there, anyway)
[08:43:20] <Nadir> wjp: have you done a BeOS build ?
[08:43:30] <wjp> no, but I'll do it when I get home
[08:44:12] <Kirben> hmm what other teext files should be included (other than those in snapshots), I already have added authors, changelog, news and readme
[08:44:28] <Nadir> What about web page announcement. I guess having source, Linux and Windows binaries is enough to justify that (we don't have to wait for other platforms)
[08:44:31] <Nadir> Kirben: faq
[08:44:59] <Nadir> copying
[08:45:18] <Nadir> You need the GPL included
[08:45:25] <Kirben> those 2 are already in snapshots along with readme.win32
[08:45:57] <Kirben> gpl ? which one is that ?
[08:46:01] <wjp> copying
[08:46:42] <Nadir> I believe INSTALL should contain info for all platforms
[08:46:43] <wjp> If you include a SDL binary, you'll also need some kind of SDL readme
[08:48:02] <Nadir> Docs need serious merging/fixing/updating before 1.0
[08:48:09] <Kirben> I have README-SDL.txt always included in snapshots already too
[08:48:20] <wjp> Nadir: agreed
[08:48:23] <wjp> ok
[08:49:15] <Kirben> install seems to be very linux specific though
[08:49:29] <wjp> yeah, it is
[08:49:46] <Kirben> DOesn't seem any point in including that one
[08:50:02] <Kirben> http://io.spaceports.com/~kirben/exult091alpha2w.exe
[08:50:26] <wjp> ok, got it
[08:51:31] <Nadir> I believe we should rename that to exult-0.91alpha2-win32.exe
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[08:56:29] <wjp> ok, let's see if this works...
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[08:57:03] <Kirben> darn system locked up
[08:57:55] <wjp> Host sourceforge.net contacted. Waiting for reply...
[08:57:58] <Kirben> win32 0.91 alpha 2 binary is at io.spaceports.com/~kirben/exult091alpha2w.exe
[08:58:10] <Kirben> incase you missed it before
[08:58:19] <wjp> no, I already downloaded it
[08:58:36] <Nadir> Kirben: I suggested exult-0.91alpha2-win32.exe to be more consistent with other platforms
[08:58:54] <wjp> Nadir: I renamed it before uploading to SF
[08:58:57] <Nadir> Kirben: (crashes) that's what you get for using MS :-)
[08:59:43] <Kirben> I think it was my bot was cause of that crash, doesn't seem to stable
[09:01:31] <wjp> alrighty, that should do it
[09:01:56] <wjp> win32 binary is on SF
[09:03:22] <Kirben> cool, thanks
[09:04:03] <wjp> thanks for the binary
[09:05:02] <wjp> should I add the release news to our homepage?
[09:05:22] <Kirben> maybe wait for beos and mac ports first ?
[09:05:29] <wjp> k
[09:07:14] <Kirben> I will add author, news and readme to future win32 snapshots too. I have received a couple of bug reports directly, I made sure I emailed back correct location for bugs reports to be submitted at though
[09:09:23] <Nadir> Tell people on your webpage to read the FAQ before reporting problems
[09:09:53] <Nadir> wjp: When announcing release, please put links to FAQ and SF's bug page
[09:10:10] <wjp> Nadir: got it
[09:12:04] <Nadir> We also need to announce on SF.
[09:12:13] <Nadir> Or should Jeff do that ?
[09:12:30] <wjp> I think Jeff should do it
[09:15:00] <Kirben> hmm think its worth keeping all those old notes on my snapshots page ?
[09:15:30] <Kirben> http://io.spaceports.com/~kirben/
[09:15:52] <Nadir> Most of them are ancient.
[09:16:01] <wjp> no, not really, they're outdated I think
[09:17:05] <Kirben> ok gone, less confusing without them
[09:18:07] <wjp> btw, the FAQ moved to the main page, so you should update your link
[09:18:24] <wjp> http://exult.sourceforge.net/faq.shtml
[09:19:31] <Kirben> ok fixed
[09:19:42] <wjp> k
[09:19:43] <Kirben> any other mistakes ?
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[11:42:16] <Nadir> I'm adding a Timidity RH7 binary to the file releases but it is taking forever !
[11:44:52] <wjp> yeah, I noticed that too
[11:45:17] <Nadir> Argh ! FRS File move failed !
[11:54:58] <Nadir> I managed to add 3!!! releases with the same file... and it was only 8k !!!
[11:57:25] <Nadir> Uploaded !!!
[12:01:00] <wjp> why is it 130K smaller than the 'normal' .rpm?
[12:02:41] <Nadir> rh7 uses bz2 compression
[12:02:59] <wjp> ah, that would explain it, I guess
[12:03:35] <Nadir> wjp: in keys.cc, why is "Show Endgame" bound only to Black Gate ?
[12:03:47] <wjp> oh, it's for SI too?
[12:05:50] <Nadir> yes. Try changing it
[12:11:31] <wjp> I'll have to try that at home
[12:11:33] <wjp> (no SI here)
[12:12:26] <Nadir> Shall I commit a fix ?
[12:12:33] <wjp> sure
[12:14:46] <wjp> Martijn, weet jij of Lennert nog langs komt vandaag?
[12:14:56] <wjp> oops
[12:14:59] <wjp> wrong window :-)
[12:15:16] <Nadir> Dutch is weird
[12:15:21] <wjp> not really :-)
[12:15:36] <Nadir> what sort of word is "jij"
[12:15:47] <wjp> it means 'you'
[12:15:55] <wjp> the 'ij' is a single sound
[12:16:03] <Nadir> as in palenstijn
[12:16:09] <wjp> yup :-)
[12:16:35] <Nadir> is it a short sound or a long one ? (is it pronounced like "stein") ?
[12:17:11] <wjp> long, and yes, 'ei' and 'ij' sound the same
[12:17:52] <wjp> (in fact, people quite often make the mistake of writing 'palenstein')
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[12:41:36] <Colourless> hi all
[12:42:05] <wjp> hi
[12:42:12] <Nadir> hi
[12:52:36] <Nadir> I'll be back in ~ 3 hrs
[12:52:40] <Nadir> bye
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[12:53:43] <wjp> bye
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[14:06:00] * wjp is releasing the beos binary
[14:06:57] <Colourless> have the rest been released ?
[14:08:05] <wjp> AFAIK everything but the macos version
[14:08:26] <Colourless> and the homepage needs updateing
[14:08:44] <wjp> I'll do that as soon as Max releases the mac binary
[14:09:59] <wjp> hmm... the beos exult.flx is 113 bytes larger than the linux one
[14:09:59] <Colourless> ok
[14:10:36] <wjp> oh, never mind
[14:10:52] <wjp> that linux exult.flx wassn't up-to-date
[14:10:58] <Colourless> heh
[14:11:11] <wjp> after a rebuild they're the same size
[14:11:47] <wjp> this isn't really going fast or anything
[14:12:17] <Colourless> what aspect isn't going fast?
[14:12:17] * wjp waits for SF to produce the 'release file' page
[14:12:27] <wjp> my internet connection, basically
[14:12:35] <Colourless> :)
[14:13:05] <wjp> argh
[14:13:21] <wjp> maybe I should just release from the univ. :-)
[14:15:44] <wjp> could you try to release it?
[14:16:01] <wjp> (this isn't working)
[14:16:18] <Colourless> how do i do it?
[14:16:32] <wjp> go to the 'admin' section of the exult SF page
[14:17:34] <wjp> then 'Edit releases' for the exult-all-versions package (at the bottom), and after that 'Edit release' on 0.91alpha2
[14:18:30] <Colourless> ok
[14:18:45] <wjp> you should have a 'step 2' with a file list now
[14:19:25] <Colourless> yes
[14:19:37] <wjp> is 'exult-0.91alpha2.x86.beos.zip' there?
[14:19:44] <Colourless> yes
[14:20:01] <wjp> select that, and press the button beneath the files
[14:20:24] <wjp> (then you'll get a pause while SF moves the file to the correct server)
[14:20:28] <Colourless> ok
[14:20:32] <Colourless> doing it
[14:21:05] <wjp> (I'm still hopelessly stuck while loading the page with the file list :-) )
[14:22:05] <wjp> when it's done, you'll get the same page again, only then the new file should be listed under 'step 3'
[14:22:14] <Colourless> ok
[14:22:43] <wjp> then you'll need to set a few options there. (filetype and platform I think)
[14:23:06] <wjp> after that, click submit, and it's done
[14:23:40] <Colourless> i386 and zip?
[14:23:57] <wjp> yup
[14:24:25] <Colourless> ok
[14:24:42] <wjp> ok, I see it's listed :-)
[14:24:43] <wjp> thanks!
[14:25:10] * wjp kicks his ISP again
[14:25:21] <Colourless> hehe
[14:26:21] <wjp> rebooting to Linux... brb
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[14:31:25] <wjp> hmm... I haven't received any exult ML mail at home the last two days
[14:33:20] <Colourless> have you received any at all
[14:33:34] <wjp> yes, plenty of SDL ML mails
[14:34:01] <Colourless> hmm. i've received a few
[14:35:02] <wjp> yes, I subscribed my univ. account too, and there I got several
[14:35:18] <Colourless> hmmm. odd
[14:39:48] <wjp> messages I send myself from my univ. account arrive too
[14:39:54] <wjp> bah
[14:40:30] <wjp> maybe my ISP blackholes lists.sourceforge.net :-)
[14:40:37] <Colourless> hehe
[14:41:53] <wjp> hmm.. I'll try sending mail from my SF shell account
[14:44:31] <wjp> that is, as soon as it decides to let me in
[14:47:14] <wjp> hehe... login message on shell1.sourceforge.net:
[14:47:41] <wjp> Please change your cron jobs. There are too many people running webalizer cron jobs. Everyone starts them at midnight and it's overloading the server.
[14:48:38] <Colourless> :)
[15:11:07] <Colourless> oh no. it appears i broke Start New Game
[15:11:49] <wjp> umm.. not in alpha2 I hope?
[15:11:58] <Colourless> no
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[15:14:08] <Nadir> b
[15:14:33] <wjp> hi
[15:14:39] <Colourless> hi
[15:14:46] <wjp> Ryan released the BeOS binary, so we're almost there...
[15:14:52] <wjp> just one more to go
[15:15:16] <wjp> (and then the alpha version and the .deb)
[15:15:29] <Nadir> We can announce without those last 2
[15:15:45] <wjp> yeah
[15:16:17] <Nadir> Is it possible to remove that "Exult-win32" package ? It's confusing, since we're releasing under exult-all-versions
[15:16:43] <wjp> I tried to for a few seconds, but didn't see a way
[15:17:18] <Nadir> There was an Active/Hidden drop down menu, but no way to apply...
[15:17:31] <wjp> yes, weird, isn't it?
[15:17:58] <Nadir> No, it's not weird. It's just buggy old SourceForge :-)
[15:18:09] <wjp> heh :-)
[15:18:18] <wjp> that's one way of looking at it :-)
[15:18:25] <Nadir> But hey, without SF we wouldn't be where we are today.
[15:19:45] <wjp> yes, the extra utilities are sometimes a bit buggy, but the CVS and mailing lists are working great
[15:20:23] <Nadir> I think Jeff should be interviewed by one of those gaming news sites with our "success story"
[15:20:52] <Colourless> yeah, but no one knows
[15:21:25] <wjp> exult was on desslock.gamespot.com last week
[15:21:32] <Colourless> it was?
[15:21:37] <wjp> including a 6-line quote from Jeff
[15:23:05] <Colourless> i count 7 lines :)
[15:23:37] <wjp> :-)
[15:25:18] <wjp> no, it's 6 :-)
[15:25:33] <Colourless> it's 7!
[15:25:38] <wjp> 6!
[15:25:45] <Colourless> 7!
[15:25:54] <wjp> 6?
[15:26:08] <Colourless> do i have to copy and paste?
[15:26:25] <wjp> 1: We're not .... have created
[15:26:31] <wjp> 2: a compl ... and are
[15:26:34] <wjp> 3: now ... well.
[15:26:46] <wjp> 4: Future ... a
[15:26:49] <wjp> etc..
[15:26:54] <wjp> 6! :-)
[15:26:57] <Colourless> We're not trying to make new Ultima stories; but we have
[15:26:58] <Colourless> created a completely new game engine that can run Black
[15:26:58] <Colourless> Gate, and are now enhancing it to get Serpent Isle working as
[15:26:58] <Colourless> well.
[15:26:58] <Colourless> Future plans are to provide a script compiler ('usecode') and a
[15:26:58] <Colourless> map-editor so we, or others, can modify U7 or write entirely
[15:27:00] <Colourless> new games in the same style.
[15:27:02] <Colourless> 7!
[15:27:17] <wjp> lol
[15:27:27] <wjp> We're not trying to make new Ultima stories; but we have created
[15:27:32] <wjp> a completely new game engine that can run Black Gate, and are
[15:27:36] <wjp> now enhancing it to get Serpent Isle working as well.
[15:27:42] <wjp> Future plans are to provide a script compiler ('usecode') and a
[15:27:45] <wjp> map-editor so we, or others, can modify U7 or write entirely new
[15:27:48] <wjp> games in the same style.
[15:27:49] <wjp> 6!
[15:28:32] <Colourless> hmmm.
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[15:33:10] <wjp> SI or BG?
[15:33:21] <Colourless> either
[15:34:05] <wjp> BG works
[15:34:05] <Colourless> good :)
[15:34:05] <Colourless> it's something i've done
[15:35:20] <Colourless> arrggghhh. I saw what i did :)
[15:36:11] <Colourless> i killed my installation of SI and BG
[15:36:38] <wjp> oops :-)
[15:37:43] <Colourless> accidently erased STATIC\SCHEDULE.DAT
[15:38:24] <Colourless> since i don't have console output, and i was looking in the wrong stderr.txt file, i couldn't find the problem
[15:44:06] <Nadir> "to easily run within a modern Windows environment" <- I hate that. Exult is multiplatform. People never learn
[15:44:30] <wjp> yes, I hate those comments too
[15:44:50] <wjp> all those pages that assume that everyone everywhere is using windows
[15:46:45] <Nadir> More than anything else, the greatest accomplishment of Exult is the fact that it is not ported to other platforms. It is developed on ALL platforms at once.
[15:48:26] <Colourless> we could notify desslock of the latest release and specifically say which systems were released ;)
[15:48:27] <wjp> :-)
[15:48:27] <wjp> 5 platforms isn't bad at all :-)
[15:48:48] <wjp> yup
[15:49:21] <Colourless> if it weren't for max though, it wouldn't run on anything other that Linux, Win32 and Beos
[15:50:08] <Nadir> We need Playstation, Dreamcast and X-Box ports as well.
[15:50:13] <wjp> Exult should run on Solaris as well
[15:50:37] <wjp> I managed to compile it, but I couldn't link because my quota was too small :-(
[15:50:40] <Nadir> The Super Nintendo release of U7 was dreadful
[15:50:53] <Colourless> x-Box i would think would be fairly easy. Just need to get it to compile in MSVC++ and that would be about it i would think.
[15:51:06] <wjp> 'just' ?
[15:51:16] <wjp> :-)
[15:51:51] <wjp> the couple of hours I've tried to compile it in MSVC++ gave me a headache :-)
[15:52:13] <wjp> (although I haven't used it before, so it might've been me)
[15:53:15] <Colourless> well after about a day of trying I gave up after getting most files to compile. it died on the xml config stuff and I then gave up. It required more kludges than the alpha version
[15:54:13] <wjp> I compiled the original win32 port using Borland C++ 5
[15:54:26] <wjp> (I think around version 0.20 or something)
[15:54:36] <Nadir> wjp: well it compiles under whatever compiler Max uses.
[15:54:50] <wjp> Metrowerks Codewarrior I think
[15:55:13] <Nadir> Maybe Codewarrior is more ISO C++ compliant than MSVC (not surprising)
[15:55:39] <wjp> s/0\.20/0.10/
[15:55:46] <Colourless> MSVC hates std::
[15:56:57] <wjp> hmm.. that would cause some problems
[15:57:15] <Colourless> :)
[15:57:19] <Nadir> ISO C++ < Codewarrior < g++ < MSVC
[15:57:45] <wjp> sounds about right
[15:58:02] <wjp> any idea where borland's compiler fits in?
[15:58:22] <Nadir> The 2.96 version that comes with RedHat 7 is very good if you get the updated RPMS
[15:59:30] <Colourless> oooh
[15:59:33] <Colourless> --------------------Configuration: Exult - Win32 Release--------------------
[15:59:33] <Colourless> Compiling...
[15:59:33] <Colourless> delobjs.cc
[15:59:33] <Colourless> delobjs.obj - 0 error(s), 0 warning(s)
[16:00:09] <wjp> msvc++?
[16:00:11] <Colourless> gamewin.obj - 54 error(s), 1 warning(s)
[16:00:13] <Colourless> yes
[16:00:33] <Nadir> 54 errors ? Show us the first one...
[16:00:45] <Colourless> \uc\exult\Audio\pcb.h(47) : error C2039: 'memmove' : is not a member of 'std'
[16:01:31] <Colourless> the 1 warning was
[16:01:31] <Colourless> C:\UC\Exult\gamewin.cc(103) : warning C4355: 'this' : used in base member initializer list
[16:02:00] <Nadir> What about #define using //
[16:03:39] <Nadir> W
[16:04:07] <Nadir> Is the warning there because the constructor may fail, therefore "this" would be invalid ?
[16:04:35] <Colourless> possibly
[16:05:14] <Nadir> How do you "fail" a constructor ?
[16:06:21] * Nadir wishes he had Stroustrup handy
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[16:12:42] <Nadir> ?seen wjp
[16:12:42] <exultbot> wjp left IRC around Fri Feb 9 16:09:06 2001 (GMT) (king.openprojects.net lackey.openprojects.net)
[16:17:50] <Nadir> ?job
[16:17:50] <exultbot> My job is to write down everything you say.
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[16:19:58] <Nadir> what happened there ?
[16:20:07] <wjp> dunno, got disconnected
[16:20:28] <Nadir> ryan is still in the void
[16:21:08] <wjp> I just browsed Stroustrup for a while, but couldn't find anything about that warning
[16:25:05] <Nadir> You think the MSVC developers read Stroustrup ?????
[16:25:31] <wjp> no, not really I guess :-)
[16:26:21] <wjp> maybe they should add this warning: "Warning: you are using microsoft Visual C++"
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[16:31:28] <Nadir> what about "using namespace std;"
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[16:34:09] <Colourless> this is what i get now
[16:34:11] <Colourless> gamewin.obj - 1 error(s), 2 warning(s)
[16:35:03] <Colourless> that error is now gone as well, but it required modifying gamewin.cc
[16:35:40] <Nadir> what did you do to reduce errors ?
[16:36:03] <Colourless> namespace std {
[16:36:08] <Colourless> include everything
[16:36:10] <Colourless> };
[16:36:23] <Colourless> then do
[16:36:26] <Colourless> using std::
[16:36:29] <Colourless> on everything
[16:36:55] <Nadir> what about "using namespace std;"
[16:37:05] <Nadir> as I suggested when you were gone
[16:37:43] <Colourless> it didn't like that
[16:37:55] <Colourless> \uc\exult\Audio\pcb.h(334) : error C2872: 'size_t' : ambiguous symbol
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[16:40:04] <Nadir> what would msvc portability buy us ?
[16:40:11] <Cless> nothing
[16:40:25] <Cless> maybe a bit of speed in the win32 version
[16:40:56] <-- Colourless has left IRC (Ping timeout for Colourless[ppp197.adelaide.on.net.au])
[16:41:28] <Nadir> When you do the Colourless->Cless->Colourless thing are you switching computers ?
[16:42:57] <Cless> no. i loose my internet connection.
[16:43:01] --- Cless is now known as Colourless
[16:44:19] <Nadir> And how do you know when you need to do that ?
[16:44:46] <Colourless> here's an ammusing error
[16:44:46] <Colourless> C:\UC\Exult\usecode\intrinsics.cc(667) : error C4226: nonstandard extension used : 'near' is an obsolete keyword
[16:44:46] <Colourless> the specific line
[16:44:46] <Colourless> int near = (npc != 0 && npc->get_abs_tile_coord().distance(
[16:45:09] <wjp> that's sick
[16:45:26] <Nadir> near as in "near pointers"...
[16:45:36] <wjp> (and since when does microsoft care about nonstandard extensions?)
[16:46:16] <Colourless> my connection is bad. I don't like it, but i live with it
[16:46:18] <Nadir> Colourless: with your new scalers is it possible to switch them at runtime, ie shall I start creating menu entries in the setup menu ?
[16:46:56] <wjp> Colourless: I know the feeling :-(
[16:46:58] <Colourless> well, at the moment it requires a recompile to change them, but there isn't any reason why it wouldn't be possible.
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[16:51:01] <Colourless> i was thinking of enumerating the scalers and using just a number to choose between them
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[16:56:38] <Colourless> what's going on?
[16:57:30] <Nadir> netsplits. Openprojects is very unstable
[16:57:57] <Colourless> it's... annoying
[16:58:00] <Nadir> Colourless: when do you think you'll be committing your schedule and scaler changes ?
[16:58:21] <Colourless> maybe monday
[16:59:23] <Nadir> What I was suggesting earlier: would it be worth having a graphical "gumps-based" mode for modifying NPCs ?
[17:00:42] <Colourless> maybe.
[17:01:14] <Nadir> Well, it's not really "worth it". Just for coolness value.
[17:03:50] <Nadir> Where is Max when we need him :-)
[17:03:51] <Colourless> it would be nice, but adding extra information to the gump wouldn't be extremely easy, plus things like selecting the specific NPC to edit would have to be worked out
[17:05:05] <Nadir> Press X (for Explore) and click on the NPC !
[17:06:54] <Colourless> the way I have it at the moment, it remembers the last npc you clicked on (or edited) and they will be the 'default' npc to edit
[17:07:41] <Nadir> good.
[17:09:18] <Colourless> ideally, gumps would be nice. to do it, someone is going to have to spend alot of time making graphics
[17:09:33] <Nadir> Same with BG paperdolls
[17:11:37] <Colourless> true.
[17:13:14] <Colourless> i'll still finish this and if someone wants gumps later, it could be done.
[17:16:23] <Colourless> i would like to the the shape browser and the npc editor combined.
[17:17:17] <Colourless> or at least, the shape browser to accept numerical input
[17:24:23] <Nadir> gotta go
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[17:43:39] <wjp> hey... I'm finally getting the exult-general mails!
[17:43:59] <wjp> a delay of 45 hours...
[17:44:01] * wjp sighs
[17:44:09] <Colourless> :)
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[18:23:56] <Colourless> hi
[18:24:05] <freedman> Hi. Is this the party?
[18:24:16] <Colourless> the party was yesterday.
[18:24:20] <Colourless> :)
[18:24:46] <wjp> hi
[18:24:51] <freedman> Argggh! Anyway, I'm still trying to release the source correctly. SourceForge is being kind of difficult.
[18:25:18] <wjp> I thought the .tar.gz was already on the release list?
[18:26:00] <freedman> It was... Then I tried it from work, and noticed that I goofed up, no removing 'uctxt' from 'configure'.
[18:26:24] <wjp> uh oh
[18:26:25] <freedman> And now I can't seem to add it back:-(
[18:27:06] <freedman> Well, the binaries are okay. Ucxt gets compile errors, but it's not used anywhere. Anyone know what it is?
[18:28:36] <wjp> I can't find any file 'uctxt' anywhere in my source tree
[18:29:01] <freedman> It's under usecode. Seems to be a C++ version of the usecode assembler.
[18:29:18] <wjp> oh that
[18:29:34] <wjp> Patrick included that tree I think
[18:29:46] <wjp> it's the decompiler, IIRC
[18:29:49] <freedman> !***##! SourceForge lost my file again. Got to start over:-(
[18:30:15] <freedman> Thanks. We'll just leave it there, but not include it for the time being.
[18:31:18] <wjp> what's the exact problem with the files on SF? ucxt is in there?
[18:31:58] <freedman> It's my fault: I removed refs. to it in the Makefile, but forgot to take it out of configure/configure.in. So you get errors when you run configure.
[18:32:09] <wjp> ah, I see
[18:32:29] <freedman> ... Just uploaded the src .gz for the 3rd time...
[18:32:46] <wjp> how fast is your connection?
[18:33:26] <freedman> From work, it's part of a T1; SourceForge is the problem.
[18:33:41] <freedman> Hey, now they have 3 copies of the .gz:-(
[18:33:48] <wjp> lol
[18:34:08] <wjp> ah well, better than zero ;-)
[18:34:46] <wjp> hehe, did you read Christoph's mail?
[18:34:53] <freedman> :-) Just deleted two; now I'll add the 3rd, and see if it's good. Sometimes they end up corrupted.
[18:35:07] <wjp> I probably shouldn't have said 'within a week' :-)
[18:35:40] <freedman> If it's ever right, I'll announce on FreshMeat, etc.
[18:36:22] <wjp> should we wait for the MacOS release?
[18:37:43] <freedman> Don't think so. Max can advertise that on the Mac sites when it's ready.
[18:37:56] <wjp> ok, so I can update the site?
[18:43:54] <Colourless> jeff: i found one SI bug thanks to my schedule editor. in the original the schedules get set right away (at least they appear to) and exult doesn't do that
[18:46:49] <freedman> Oh, I though we fixed that. But maybe not. Shouldn't be too hard to check once you know the NPC that's wrong.
[18:47:43] <freedman> Let's see, in BG, the initial schedules are for 6am; maybe SI's are different.
[18:48:53] <Colourless> i'm trying something to see if it makes a difference, it may not
[18:48:53] <wjp> mozilla 0.7 really seems to like spawning processes... I've got about 25 psm's and java_vm's running
[18:49:15] <freedman> Good thing you've got that 256Mb of RAM!
[18:49:20] <wjp> heh :-)
[18:49:30] <wjp> killall -9 helps too :-)
[18:49:51] <freedman> I'm using Konqueror at work for most everything now, except for SourceForge.
[18:50:37] <wjp> I've never tried Konqueror, actually
[18:51:02] <wjp> let's see if it runs...
[18:51:31] <freedman> There are newer versions than the 2.0 that I'm using. It's a bit buggy, but it's generally better/faster than NS 6
[18:52:15] <wjp> it does seem pretty fast
[18:52:31] <wjp> lot's of warnings though. (maybe because I'm not running kde :-) )
[18:52:56] <freedman> Most important (for me): When you hit the 'back' button, it really goes back to the right place in the page. NS has never done that right.
[18:53:47] <wjp> bah, konqueror left all kinds of kde processes running
[18:54:24] <Colourless> i use the most evil of all evils :)
[18:54:27] <freedman> :-) They're usually there all the time when KDE is up.
[18:54:40] <wjp> :-)
[18:54:59] <wjp> maybe I should try kde 2
[18:55:22] <wjp> although I didn't like 1.2 much
[18:55:24] <freedman> It's nice on a fast machine. At home, though, I use BlackBox.
[18:55:53] <freedman> Hmm. 1.2 was actually a lot more stable than 2.0.
[18:57:17] <freedman> Colourless: What's that? TWM?
[18:57:35] <wjp> Internet Explorer, I think :-)
[18:57:58] <freedman> I hate to admit it, but it's more useable than Linux NS.
[18:58:02] <wjp> true
[18:58:11] <wjp> anything's more useable than Linux NS :-)
[18:58:32] <Colourless> how about Solaris Internet Explorer. I hear it's pretty bad
[18:58:57] <wjp> Solaris IE? hmm, never heard of that
[19:00:00] <freedman> Any suggestions for the 'Changes' on FreshMeat?
[19:00:14] <Colourless> some company made a port of IE to Solaris for MS. From what I know it was extremely unstable since
[19:00:33] <Colourless> it wasn't so much a port of IE, it was a port of Win32
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[19:00:35] <wjp> freedman: pick a few impressive ones from the weekly updates
[19:00:40] <wjp> Fingolfin! Finally :-)
[19:00:57] <Fingolfin> lo
[19:00:59] <Fingolfin> full here, cool!
[19:01:01] <Fingolfin> hehe
[19:01:07] <Colourless> hello
[19:01:11] <Fingolfin> I am afraid I gotta go immediatly again, I need to finish cleaning the dishes, but I'll be back in ten minutes
[19:01:21] <Fingolfin> oh, and I can update the web page, too, unless someone else wants to do it, no problem
[19:01:25] <wjp> where's the MacOS release? ;-)
[19:01:27] <Fingolfin> and the mac file release will come soo, too
[19:01:29] <Fingolfin> it is just that I came home a few mins ago ;)
[19:01:38] <wjp> that's what they all say :-)
[19:01:54] <Fingolfin> hey, I have been busy all day, half my family is ill and I have to care for them and vistied my grandpa in hospital etc.
[19:02:04] <wjp> :-(
[19:02:47] <freedman> Hope they get better.
[19:03:18] <Colourless> thats bad
[19:06:40] <Colourless> this makes no sense. why aren't the schedules taking effect... :(
[19:11:10] <freedman> Are they set for 6am?
[19:11:42] <Colourless> no, they are not, and they should be
[19:16:03] <freedman> You mean, they have sched. changes at 6am, but we're not doing them?
[19:18:05] <Colourless> after starting a new game, we need to set all the schedules for the SI npcs, but we aren't doing it. Also we then have to save this back the the gamedat dir
[19:18:15] <Colourless> this being the npcs
[19:19:49] <freedman> I thought we changed the code so we were setting everyone's 6am schedule. Before, the guard at the gate wasn't even there.
[19:20:15] <freedman> Ok, maybe this is the problem:
[19:21:10] <freedman> NPC's that are offscreen don't get set to their schedules, since that would involve pulling in the entire world. (Or if not, they end up sleeping on the ground, since the beds don't exist).
[19:21:47] <freedman> So... When we pull in a section of a map, we have to make sure the NPC's there are set to their proper schedules.
[19:22:06] <Colourless> i'm just checking to see if starting the game at 5:59 makes any difference
[19:22:26] <Colourless> because i changed the game time to 5:59 when in the game and the schedules got set
[19:23:05] <freedman> An easy solution sounds good:-)
[19:23:51] <Colourless> it works, but for a fraction of a frame the palette is dark. :)
[19:24:04] <Colourless> if i recall, the originals faded the palette
[19:24:11] <Colourless> between times
[19:24:25] <Fingolfin> back
[19:24:48] <Fingolfin> took me longer than I thought (but then it were a lot of dishes and spoons and cups)
[19:25:28] * Fingolfin goes to check the MacOS Readme, and then test if the package he built installs out-of-the-box
[19:25:56] <freedman> Yes, they did fade. That was a nice touch.
[19:26:32] <freedman> We could try to figure out why they're not taking place at 6am currently. There's code to make that happen.
[19:28:05] <Colourless> it's not too important at the moment, this seems to be working. but a better solution would be nice
[19:33:00] <Colourless> i just thought of a feature that might be something to think about. We could possibly make the avatar turn and 'look' at the npc that is speaking by finding the npc the face shown belongs to.
[19:34:09] <Fingolfin> eeek, exult crashes upon exit!
[19:34:42] <Colourless> any idea where
[19:35:17] <Fingolfin> nope, it was a non-debug built... I'l try again
[19:35:55] <Colourless> if it's anything like the one i got yesterday, i doubt it's repeatable
[19:36:25] <Fingolfin> it was an unmapped memory excpetion
[19:38:17] <Fingolfin> nice and repeatable ;)
[19:41:23] <freedman> Got to be going. Later.
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[19:41:31] <Fingolfin> oh my
[19:41:40] <Colourless> yes?
[19:41:43] <Fingolfin> Game_window::~Game_window contains sure a lot of "mistakes"
[19:41:51] <Fingolfin> all wrong deletes!!!
[19:46:40] <Fingolfin> eeek
[19:46:45] <Fingolfin> and a real bug, too
[19:46:51] <Colourless> oooh. what
[19:46:57] <Fingolfin> delete 0xF1F1F1F1 ;)
[19:47:02] <Fingolfin> Vga_file::~Vga_file
[19:47:07] <Fingolfin> delete shape_source;
[19:47:08] <Colourless> interesting
[19:47:46] <Fingolfin> yes... hrm
[19:47:54] <Fingolfin> shape_source is set to this bogus value
[19:47:55] <Fingolfin> why?
[19:48:19] <Colourless> someones idea of fun perhaps? :)
[19:48:30] <Fingolfin> oh my god!
[19:48:33] <Fingolfin> the reason:
[19:48:43] <Fingolfin> it never gets initied to a default value...
[19:48:57] <Fingolfin> i.e. if load() is not called, KA-BOOM
[19:48:58] <wjp> ouch
[19:49:47] <Colourless> thats bad
[19:49:52] <Fingolfin> I got the f1f1f1f1 because I use some debug replacement for new/malloc
[19:49:58] <wjp> maybe we should do an audit of all destructors
[19:50:15] <Fingolfin> I am currently just running exult, and quitting it, already fixed 5 things
[19:50:44] <Fingolfin> now it went smoothly
[19:53:35] <Colourless> hmm. a crash... i got it twice, same spot
[19:54:24] <Colourless> three times :)
[19:55:58] <Colourless> it appears that the reason is because src_pixels in Image_buffer8::copy8 is 0
[19:56:27] <Fingolfin> bad
[19:58:08] <Fingolfin> commited my changes
[20:01:07] <Colourless> it occured during when 'drawing' a sprite or text effect.
[20:01:34] <wjp> do you have a stacktrace?
[20:01:36] <Colourless> it also seemed to occur when the avatar was 'throwing' his sword. Seems there is a combat bug
[20:04:14] <wjp> ouch... reproducable crash when swinging sword
[20:05:04] <Colourless> it appeared that the avatar was trying to use the sword as if it were a dagger being thrown
[20:10:47] <wjp> hmm, it's trying to draw from a shape with a NULL data field
[20:11:21] <wjp> brb
[20:11:24] <Colourless> yes it's trying to do that. but that isn't the only problem
[20:12:44] <wjp> b
[20:13:13] <wjp> no, it isn't
[20:14:09] <Colourless> no. it appears that the avatar wants to throw the sword instead of just swinging it. after the 'throw' the sword disappeared.
[20:14:44] <wjp> yeah, looks pretty funny :-)
[20:15:14] <wjp> doesn't happen with maces, btw
[20:15:28] <Colourless> didn't happen with 2h hammer
[20:16:45] <Colourless> i think it may have been attempting to draw a frame for the thrown sword that didn't exist.
[20:16:59] <wjp> yeah
[20:23:42] <Colourless> it appears the Exult gets effected by the Chaos Heirophant problem just as badly as the original did
[20:26:09] <wjp> the duplicate ones near the mint?
[20:26:35] <Colourless> yes
[20:31:24] <Colourless> you can almost get to moonshade now. you can release hawk from prison and organise the passage. when you go onto the ship things stop working. hawk, kane and flindo have a few problems walking along the pier to get into the boat.
[20:32:41] <wjp> pathfinding again :-(
[20:32:56] <wjp> brb
[20:33:01] <Colourless> k
[20:34:27] <Fingolfin> uho
[20:34:44] <Fingolfin> I just tried running exult from the dist
[20:34:59] <Fingolfin> i.e. unpacking my dist (including newest exult.flx BTW)
[20:35:06] <Fingolfin> and keys do not work in game...
[20:35:08] <Fingolfin> hrm
[20:35:20] <Fingolfin> maybe expack got changed once more and broke on mac?
[20:35:27] <Fingolfin> what size should exult.flx have?
[20:35:28] <wjp> possible
[20:35:38] <wjp> 75195
[20:35:43] <Fingolfin> 75.195 for me
[20:35:43] <Fingolfin> hrm
[20:36:13] <Colourless> 75195 here as well
[20:36:26] <wjp> do you get any parse-errors or anything on stdout/stderr?
[20:36:28] * Fingolfin checks recent changes to keys.cc
[20:36:59] <Fingolfin> stderr contains "Loading default keybindings"
[20:37:11] <Fingolfin> hmm, this should be sent to clog or cout instead I guess
[20:37:18] <wjp> did I write that to stderr? oops
[20:37:54] <Fingolfin> a lot of people fiddled with keys.cc recently, maybe something for mac got broken
[20:39:07] <Fingolfin> hm nope
[20:41:19] <Fingolfin> hm
[20:42:10] <Fingolfin> found the problem
[20:42:19] <-- Colourless has left IRC (Ping timeout for Colourless[ppp11.adelaide.on.net.au])
[20:42:25] <Fingolfin> KeyBinder::ParseText
[20:42:30] <Fingolfin> we use \n on all OS now
[20:42:38] <Fingolfin> hence the check for MacOS there causes the breakdown
[20:44:41] <wjp> just add a '\n' argument to getline I suppose?
[20:44:52] <Fingolfin> nope
[20:44:59] <Fingolfin> just remove the #ifdef MACOS ;)
[20:45:04] <Fingolfin> I will commit it in a few
[20:45:55] <wjp> oh right, I already included some CR/LF code...
[20:46:28] <Fingolfin> commited
[21:08:24] <Fingolfin> mac file released
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[21:23:15] <lennert> hi *
[21:23:28] <Fingolfin> lo
[21:23:33] <lennert> wjp here? ;)
[21:23:34] <Fingolfin> wjp: I am updating the web page now
[21:23:44] <Fingolfin> that is, I do not update it yet, I update the files local here ;)
[21:23:54] <Fingolfin> lennert: well, not really, but he'll come back at one point ;)
[21:24:04] <lennert> he's probably having food....
[21:24:08] * lennert is jealous at that thought :)
[21:24:42] <lennert> anyone want root on my machine? ;)
[21:24:46] <wjp> hehe :-)
[21:24:48] <wjp> hi
[21:24:50] <wjp> no thanks :-)
[21:24:55] <wjp> been there, done that ;-)
[21:24:59] <lennert> damn.. he knows the trick :)
[21:25:15] <lennert> ssh -x -p 2222 root@132.229.231.14, password 'root'
[21:25:22] <lennert> it's working pretty nicely now
[21:25:28] <lennert> i've submitted it for inclusion to the uml maintainer
[21:25:34] <lennert> just a few moments ago
[21:26:04] <Fingolfin> wjp: hm, no .deb files yet? Should I for now keep pointers to the old debs?
[21:26:18] <wjp> no, just say something like 'coming soon'
[21:29:02] <Fingolfin> ok
[21:29:08] <Fingolfin> exult-0.91alpha2-rh7_timidity_1.i386.rpm
[21:29:17] <Fingolfin> is this a RPM for RH7
[21:29:23] <Fingolfin> including timidity support ?!?
[21:29:31] <wjp> yes :-)
[21:29:34] <wjp> amazingly :-)
[21:30:40] <wjp> ok, I'm off again
[21:30:41] --- wjp is now known as wjp|tv
[21:30:59] <wjp|tv> see you later
[21:31:05] <lennert> see you later chimera|work
[21:31:07] <lennert> ehm
[21:31:09] <lennert> see you later wjp|tv
[21:31:17] <wjp|tv> (I'll be back in 45 mins to take a peek at the homepage)
[21:32:16] <Fingolfin> hehe
[21:32:24] <Fingolfin> is that a threat? ;)
[21:41:14] <-- lennert has left #exult
[21:46:03] <chimera|work> lennert: well see you later too!
[21:46:10] <chimera|work> hehe
[21:54:57] <Fingolfin> tsa
[21:54:59] <Fingolfin> web page updated
[21:55:05] <Fingolfin> everybody report what I forgot, ok? ;)
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[23:09:18] --- wjp|tv is now known as wjp
[23:09:26] * wjp yawns
[23:09:28] <wjp> I'm tired
[23:09:58] <Kirben> Best to get some sleep then, must be late over there
[23:10:04] <wjp> only about midnight
[23:15:01] <wjp> argh... Max sure made the homepage easy to edit...
[23:15:04] <wjp> no LFs
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[23:42:08] <jameson> Hi!
[23:42:22] <wjp> hi
[23:43:16] <jameson> Do you happen to know what kind of stream std::clog is, and what it is doing in my std namespace?
[23:43:34] <wjp> I'd say it's a logging stream
[23:43:45] <wjp> never heard of it before Max brought it up today, today
[23:43:49] <jameson> (Or more precisely, why Max has one and I don't)
[23:43:57] <jameson> Ah...
[23:44:05] <jameson> Does that work for you?
[23:44:13] <wjp> why did I write today twice?
[23:44:25] <jameson> Ummh...
[23:44:29] <jameson> To emphasize it?
[23:44:35] <wjp> ah, that must be it :-)
[23:44:45] * wjp is compiling...
[23:44:45] <jameson> Hah! :-) Do I get a prize?
[23:45:02] <wjp> you can get my prize the second Max gives me mine for finding a bug on the webpage :-)
[23:45:25] <jameson> <g>
[23:45:29] <jameson> Ah well...
[23:45:30] <wjp> you might as well ask Max to give it to you in person :-)
[23:45:43] <wjp> seems to compile
[23:46:08] <jameson> Hmm.
[23:47:26] <wjp> clog is standard C++, btw
[23:47:40] <jameson> Oh...
[23:47:59] <wjp> (according to stroustrup, anyway)
[23:48:06] <jameson> Yep, it's in there...
[23:48:38] <jameson> buffered version of stderr.
[23:48:41] <jameson> Er, cerr, sorry.
[23:49:17] <jameson> Well, if I'm lucky I'll just have to hunt for the right header file :-)
[23:51:46] <wjp> you can always just define it to cout/cerr
[23:52:31] <jameson> Yes, but clog is out there. I can just feel it in my bladder.
[23:53:05] <jameson> I actually think there's a remote chance that my last header file inclusion may have fixed it, but that will require a full recompile.
[23:53:16] <-- Kirben has left IRC (Read error to Kirben[co3007967-a.brasd1.vic.optushome.com.au]: Connection reset by peer)
[23:53:41] * jameson shudders at the thought of a full recompile
[23:54:51] <jameson> It's like in the good old times, when you brought your punch cards to the guys down in the lab, and went to fetch the results (or get told they'd messed up) a day later
[23:55:04] <wjp> :-)
[23:55:38] <jameson> BTW, it's only 25-30 minutes. I guess I was doing something backgroundish yesterday.
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