#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 9 Feb 2016 (GMT)

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[01:21:00] <Marzo> dominus: out of curiosity, do you have any emails for Kirben other than his SF one?
[01:33:00] <Darrenor64> Dominus, do you know anything about the history of "nu5" : 'neat ultima 5'?
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[08:59:57] <dominus> Darrenor64: not really much, too long ago. I only know that it existed
[08:59:58] <dominus> wjp hosted the logs for a while
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[09:02:29] <dominus> I think another package from the UK went the long way to me (Austria) via Australia
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[10:33:50] <dominus> oh, wow, one feature of the SF tracker that is kind of useless but fun if you need it: you can move tracker items across projects (if you have the proper permissions)
[10:48:33] <dominus> Marzo, since it so much fun to mess with the intro and outro, I moved an old feature request by Malignant to "Release block": https://sourceforge.net/p/exult/bugs/1927/
[10:48:49] <dominus> To show the congratulations after beating the game.
[10:50:05] <dominus> This ties in with my patch for the localized exultmsg lines (https://sourceforge.net/p/exult/patches/107/) since we maybe want to move the congratulations text into exultmsg.
[10:50:24] <dominus> (not maybe :))
[11:00:44] <wjp> very nice to see so much activity again :-)
[11:01:11] <dominus> yes :)
[11:28:54] <dominus> http://pastebin.com/QWDD0DpX
[12:20:02] <Marzo> dominus: Kirben replied; he is using GCC 4.6.2 at the moment, and wants to keep it that way until the end of the month due to an upcoming ScummVM release, for which he wants to keep Win9x support
[12:21:00] <Marzo> After that, he has no problems upgrading to another, newer, version
[12:22:49] <dominus> Marzo: then how about that:
[12:23:24] <dominus> Let's see if we get anywhere close to a release ourselves in that month
[12:25:17] <dominus> If we do - wait for a release (with a deadline) and after that we switch.
[12:25:45] <dominus> If we don't make the deadline... All bets and safeties are off ;)
[12:36:50] <Marzo> dominus: well, I find it unlikely we will hit that deadline
[12:42:53] <Marzo> Anyways, the saga continues to upgrade ES to GtkBuilder
[12:43:12] <Marzo> Only the file selection dialog remains before I can test what I did
[13:48:43] <dominus> I think I'm done watching the BG ending now...
[13:53:22] <dominus> ok, last time I needed to watch the French one. The French final is not painting the long Guardian speech orange. Both in the original and in Exult.
[13:58:28] <dominus> and sadly I cannot check whether the endgame runs from the game instead of the menu with "if (!gwin->is_in_exult_menu())" :(
[15:16:09] <Marzo> Ugh
[15:16:33] <Marzo> Converting to GtkBuilder is being a pain in the arse
[15:18:04] <Marzo> If I want to keep to GTK-2, I must use a lot of deprecated widgets that GtkBuilder used in it, and will have to rewrite a lot of code
[15:18:56] <Marzo> If I move to GTK-3, those widgets are deprecated and I can use the widgets we already use, but we will have to rewrite a lot of *different* code
[15:19:03] <Marzo> And risk losing WinXP support
[15:20:13] <dominus> Hmpf... I tend to say f... XP but then the others are not that popular either
[15:20:45] <Marzo> Funny thing is, GtkBuilder added a lot of things for use in GTK2 which deprecated stuff from GTK2, only to have a lot of the stuff it added be deprecated in GTK3 and the stuff it deprecated be un-deprecated back
[15:21:05] <Marzo> Kirben also wants to keep XP support, at least for now
[15:21:07] <dominus> Doesn't sound funny
[15:22:29] <Marzo> Let me try to make it work on full GTK3
[15:23:16] <Marzo> Because one advantage is that we will be able to ditch all libglade stuff, and use only GTK libs
[15:25:28] <Marzo> On the other hand, it seems like we might need to use libcairo
[15:25:56] <dominus> Cairo is already a dependency
[15:26:20] <dominus> Or do I confuse stuff?
[15:26:38] <Marzo> I don't think it is, not yet
[15:26:41] <dominus> Libcairo != cairo ?
[15:26:46] <Marzo> Maybe for GTK
[15:26:58] <Marzo> I find no cairo in configure.ac
[15:27:39] <dominus> Yes gtk2 needs it I think. At least on Windows I think it's there
[15:30:37] <dominus> I know that back then it was needed and I *think* it was linked to from pango or so when I tried to make an ES snapshot
[15:40:12] <Marzo> Well, fuck this thing; it seems like redoing ES from scratch will be easier than trying to convert it
[15:40:48] <Marzo> Might be a good thing: maybe using GTK-- and Cairo-- ands up being better in the long run
[15:43:31] <dominus> Well, if glade is already on the way to bein deprecated (if I understood you correctly the other day), then moving away from it is the right thing to do
[15:45:49] <Marzo> It is, yes; but rewriting ES from the ground up is too much work for such little gain
[15:47:06] <Marzo> We might as well change to wxwidgets or Qt and very publicly give the middle finger to Gnome devs for all these stupid hoops
[15:48:07] <dominus> !!!yes!!!
[15:48:12] <dominus> ;)
[15:48:40] <dominus> Or rather nooooo... We will never release....
[15:49:05] <Marzo> For example, Cairo does not handle paletted images
[15:49:08] <Marzo> At all
[15:50:27] <Marzo> And Gdk3 removed all functions that did that
[15:53:04] <dominus> ok, that sounds like we can just give up on anything gtk
[15:55:36] <dominus> btw. libcairo is indeed a dependency from whatever pulls it in...
[15:57:01] <dominus> Gtk2 depends on Pango, which depends on cairo
[16:09:25] <Marzo> "People often ask why they should port an application from GTK2 to GTK3, Otte said. His answer historically was that GTK3 is awesome and everyone should port, but he said he has begun to doubt that. The truth is that GTK2 is stable and unchanging, even boring—but that is what some projects need. He cited one project that targets RHEL5 as its platform, which ships a very old version of GTK2. Creating a GTK3 port would just cost them time, he said.
[16:09:26] <Marzo> " https://lwn.net/Articles/562856/
[16:09:31] <Marzo> That settles it
[16:09:59] <Marzo> We shall stay on GTK2
[16:10:08] <dominus> sorry for all the time wasted on this
[16:10:23] <Marzo> Meaning I just need to rework all of the menu code
[16:13:15] <Marzo> Anyway, stashed all my work and will work on other stuff
[16:13:29] <Marzo> I will return to GtkBuilder migration when I am less pissed off
[16:14:31] <Marzo> Now, I will eat something and do the Guardian lipsynch thing
[16:15:52] <dominus> funny thing about compiling ES without X11 dependency: Just undefining XWIN compiles ES fine. Exult itself blows up all over the place :)
[16:16:22] <dominus> (all dependencies must be without X11 as well - but that was taken care of by my packets manager)
[17:14:12] <Marzo> Hm
[17:14:28] <Marzo> Lipsynch data only starts when Guardian is speaking
[17:14:47] <Marzo> His eye and eyebrow motions before seem to be hard-coded in the original
[17:15:05] <Marzo> So I will have to find a way around it in Exult
[17:15:15] <Marzo> Other than this, it looks perfect
[17:15:44] <Marzo> Hm
[17:16:38] <Marzo> I could just make some more data to put in exult_bg.flx for the 'before' movement; it will be independent of language anyway
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[17:19:51] <Malignant_Manor> Keeping Win9x support for the next release of Exult also sounds like a good idea.
[17:20:29] <Malignant_Manor> It seems like you will need to wait on Exult Studio changes until after the release which is also probably a good thing.
[17:26:06] <Marzo> Or not; it basically means I can't do anything ES-related because support for Glade/GTK2 has been dropped from Ubuntu
[17:26:14] <Marzo> (and I really don't want to compile it myself)
[17:36:07] <Marzo> Hm, why am I even bothering to put it on exult_bg.flx? It is not like that is going to change...
[17:41:36] <Malignant_Manor> wjp: Do you have time to look at fixing this bug? You looked into it before and I added some saves. https://sourceforge.net/p/exult/bugs/1887/
[17:44:23] <wjp> if I felt comfortable doing so, I would've fixed it back then
[17:46:26] <Malignant_Manor> I don't feel comfortable doing it either.
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[17:47:15] <dominus> Malignant_Manor: I'm not sure but can you reproduce this? Wasn't it mostly caused by the user doing terrible things to his game?
[17:47:43] <dominus> Like adding the black sword when he shouldn't have it?
[17:47:51] <Malignant_Manor> The hang
[17:48:22] <Malignant_Manor> I didn't think you should have it there without cheating but it has been awhile.
[17:49:25] <Malignant_Manor> I could teleport at the start to reproduce it. It doesn't hang in the original game.
[17:50:09] <Malignant_Manor> wjp: Do you know of any issue that preventing dead npcs from joining the party would cause? https://sourceforge.net/p/exult/bugs/1892/
[17:51:00] <wjp> it's honestly been far too long since I looked at this
[17:53:57] <Marzo> Maybe that unready usecode bug could be solved by scripting the call instead of calling directly
[17:54:23] <Marzo> Although this could lead to issues too
[17:58:20] <wjp> it wouldn't surprise me if the black sword is a special case
[17:59:45] <wjp> (and if it is indeed a special case, it would make sense if unequipping the black sword was a scripted call)
[18:00:16] <wjp> it's all a bit of a minefield though
[18:05:17] <dominus> I really don't think we should work around a bug caused by this cheating. The black sword is part of the scripted story
[18:05:26] <dominus> Don't mess with this
[18:05:30] <dominus> ;)
[18:07:44] <Malignant_Manor> dominus: How long do you think it will take you to play through BG+FV, SI+SS, German BG, Spanish BG, French BG, Spanish SI, and the beat versions?
[18:08:01] <Malignant_Manor> beat=beta
[18:10:10] <Marzo> The beta version is impossible to finish normally
[18:19:09] <dominus> Malignant_Manor: i will not play through any game ;)
[18:19:44] <dominus> I'm all for releasing *blind*
[18:20:22] <dominus> The next thing I do plan to play after a release is BG Keyring
[18:32:58] <Marzo> Hm
[18:33:13] <Marzo> Palette cycle when Guardian is speaking is completely wrong in Exult
[18:33:42] <Marzo> Looking closely at the original, it changes when the guardian is trying to push through the screen, then when he is speaking
[18:34:55] <Marzo> Or maybe it just speeds up, I don't know
[18:35:07] <dominus> It's like your favourite movie toy. Nothing is wrong until Marzo tells you thst it looks nothing like in the movie...
[18:35:12] <Marzo> U7 does not seem to be based on ticks on this point
[18:35:44] <Marzo> It is the downside of paying too much attention when trying to lipsynch
[18:52:20] <Marzo> Hm. Some parts seem to rotate the colors in the inverse order
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[19:44:20] <Marzo> Huh
[19:46:30] <Marzo> rotate_colors goes in opposite directions in Image_buffer16 and Image_window8
[19:48:35] <dominus> it wasn't me
[19:52:53] <dominus> hmm, I did find some strange color cycling/palette issue in the SI ice crypts, probably unrelated https://sourceforge.net/p/exult/bugs/1889/
[19:59:05] <Marzo> Unrelated, yes
[20:33:04] * Marzo is going mad listening to the guardian over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, again
[21:13:54] <Marzo> Next up, the hand, then SFX
[21:48:41] <Marzo> dominus: by the way, thanks for making flx files for the intro SFX, it will really come in handy
[21:48:55] <Marzo> Although I was thinking that maybe we should bundle them in the SFX packs?
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