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[10:18:35] --- Topic for #exult is: USECODE! the secret Power of Ultima 7 (and Ultima 8!) and Exult! Or how to waste $ 3,080,278 !
[10:18:35] --- Topic for #exult set by Dominus at Tue Jan 8 00:33:34 2002
[10:18:43] <wjp> there, that's better
[10:21:14] * Darke was wondering when you'd notice. <grin> "Hi!"
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[10:48:38] <Nadir> hi
[10:48:41] <wjp> hi
[10:48:45] <Nadir> wjp: pentagram works now :)
[10:48:55] <wjp> yeah :-)
[10:49:01] <Nadir> silly cvs
[10:49:40] <wjp> I tried that same modules line yesterday, but then it didn't work... maybe I forgot to delete my local directory before trying
[10:58:04] <Nadir> could be
[10:58:28] <Nadir> anyway, now files, conf and audio need to be made independent of Exult
[10:58:38] * wjp nods
[10:59:17] <Nadir> basically "exult_types.h" and "exceptions.h"
[11:00:47] <Nadir> maybe we need a "headers" common module, with those two
[11:00:57] <Nadir> (stripped of Exult-specific stuff of course)
[11:09:40] <Nadir> I don't think people know about Pentagram yet... no questions on the forum
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[11:27:33] <Colourless> hi
[11:32:48] <Nadir> hi
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[11:36:12] <Cless|taking_the_dog_for_a_wal> ooh, reached the character limit :-)
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[12:12:18] * Colourless is back
[12:25:32] * wjp is back too
[12:25:47] <Colourless> hello
[12:25:52] <wjp> hi
[12:27:19] <wjp> Nadir: not sure about a headers module. It might be better to make the 3 modules really self-containing
[12:28:05] <Colourless> what's this?
[12:32:30] <Nadir> ye
[12:32:34] <Nadir> agreed
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[12:38:55] <Colourless> hi
[12:39:04] <Kirben> Hi
[12:39:32] <wjp> hi
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[12:46:18] * Darke sighs and taps his claws... trying to make conf/ more generic has left me with a conundrum, I have a (string=string()) constructor and a (char *, string=string()) constructor... see the problem? <grin>
[12:47:30] <wjp> hmm, interesting
[12:47:37] <wjp> what's the second parameter?
[12:48:01] <Colourless> why not merge them into one?
[12:48:20] <Darke> I want to pass the name of the 'root' node, which is by default "config", if it's not a config file I'm loading (rather, say, opcodes), it's not going to work. The first parameter is a filename.
[12:48:26] <Colourless> if char* == NULL make it act like the first one
[12:49:10] <Darke> The problem is if it's called config("filename"), it's going to have a different effect then if called config(string("filename))... which is bad.
[12:49:30] <Darke> s/"filename/"filename"/
[12:50:01] * wjp agrees with Colourless
[12:50:06] <Colourless> um, i'm talking about having just 1 constructor
[12:50:09] <Darke> I thought dropping a 'bool' placeholder (bool, string=string()), that isn't used and it might help differentiate it.
[12:51:02] * Darke is just trying to make it 'backwards compatable', so he doesn't have to dig through all the exult code and change it, but it looks like he might have to.
[12:51:34] <Darke> This is for the 'Configuration' class by the way.
[12:51:43] <wjp> Configuration constructors shouldn't be in many places
[12:51:58] <Colourless> i'm pretty sure only 1 actually
[12:52:08] <Colourless> in exult that is
[12:52:14] <Darke> 2 if you count ucxt. <grin>
[12:52:18] <wjp> :-)
[12:52:36] <Colourless> 3 if you count the helper dll for the windows installer
[12:58:00] <Colourless> so, i don't think that keeping it backwards compatable is really an issue :-)
[12:58:20] <Darke> Fair enough, I shall 'break' things then, the new constructor perhaps should be (string filename, string rootname), along with a (void) constructor, and clear(string rootname=string()) will reset the rootname.
[12:58:43] <Darke> (Along with clearing all the data from the tree.)
[12:59:04] * Darke proceeds to watch things break. <grin>
[12:59:08] <Colourless> sounds fair enought to me
[12:59:23] <Colourless> remover any extranous t's
[12:59:45] <Darke> And any extraneous 'r's?
[13:00:16] <Colourless> yeah :-)
[13:00:33] <Colourless> didn't see that one :-)
[13:01:11] * Colourless watches as Algebraic Number Theory nears 200 posts
[13:01:25] * Darke grins and doesn't point out you misspelt 'extraneous' as well. <innocentwiggle>
[13:02:59] <Colourless> :-)
[13:02:59] <Colourless> well, i just don't know how to spell that word :-)
[13:05:09] * Darke points to his Dictionary applet on his KDE toolbar, he wasn't 100% sure he spelt it right either. <grin>
[13:06:18] * Colourless points to the paper based dictonary to his left and vows to use it in the future
[13:06:31] <Colourless> :-)
[13:09:07] * Darke has gotten into a habit of quickly looking up words he's not sure about, it gets embarrassing misspelling half a dozen words in a pose.
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[13:18:47] <Nadir> it's surprising how you native English speakers are so bad at spelling
[13:19:02] <Nadir> Americans are the worst
[13:19:17] <Colourless> we are lazy
[13:19:32] * Darke decides to break a few other little things, that theoretically shouldn't hurt anything, in conf/ whilst he's at it. <grin> Mostly stale interfaces.
[13:19:56] <Nadir> What is the first module that we should make independent ?
[13:20:02] <Nadir> files ?
[13:20:07] <Colourless> yeah files
[13:20:18] <Nadir> because it doesn't depend on anything else
[13:20:39] <Colourless> well, it does depend on config for some functions, but that's it afasik
[13:20:44] <Colourless> afaik even :-)
[13:20:48] <Nadir> and config depends on files
[13:20:52] <Nadir> s/config/conf/
[13:20:59] <Colourless> yeah
[13:21:05] <Nadir> oops
[13:21:55] <Nadir> files doesn't depend on conf
[13:22:13] <Colourless> doesn't it?
[13:22:34] * Colourless thinks for a moment... no it doesn't
[13:22:47] <Nadir> No file in "files" includes "Configuration.h" or "XMLEntity.h"
[13:23:13] <Colourless> i was thinking that u7open used config to get system paths, but they are handled in exult.cc
[13:25:45] <Darke> Hmm... all those changes in conf/, and not a single complaint from doing a full make, I wonder if it actually works. <grin>
[13:34:19] <Nadir> Darke: where are you making these changes ?
[13:34:36] <Darke> exult/conf/*
[13:36:06] <Darke> I does work. It looks like all the instantiations of Configuration were using the default constructor anyway, and just called read_config_file directly, which made my life easier. <grin>
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[13:42:11] <Nadir> how do we solve the problems with exult_types.h and exceptions.h. Do we provide local copies for each module (with the risk of having several incompatible versions)
[13:42:51] <Colourless> i was thinking just have shared copies
[13:44:38] <Nadir> shared copies ?
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[14:00:21] <Wumpus> eek
[14:00:24] * Wumpus hides from the crowd :)
[14:00:30] <Wumpus> evening all
[14:00:54] <wjp> afternoon :-)
[14:01:03] <Darke> Hi Wumpus. <grin>
[14:01:11] <Wumpus> its actually early (very early :P) morning, but i'm in denial :P
[14:01:15] <Nadir> Colourless: shared how ?
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[14:03:15] <Wumpus> waah
[14:03:20] <Wumpus> sf is down, hmm
[14:03:33] <wjp> it is?
[14:03:40] <Wumpus> is that why i just got swamped by 20 or so emails from bug reports etc which I'd already received before, i wonder? :|
[14:03:44] <Wumpus> well the website is, anyway
[14:03:50] <wjp> works for me
[14:04:09] <Wumpus> `The SourceForge.net Website is currently down for maintenance.' etc
[14:04:14] <Wumpus> hmm odd
[14:04:16] <wjp> try a reload
[14:04:49] * Wumpus was just doign so... hmm
[14:04:54] <Wumpus> same
[14:05:22] <Wumpus> would have surrpised me if it was different, given that I haven't been on recently to get crud in my proxy/cache thingie :P
[14:05:46] <wjp> do deep links work? (sourceforge.net/bugs/?group_id=2335, for instance)
[14:06:45] <Wumpus> .../projects/exult already works, hmm oh well :)
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[14:17:01] <sbx> lo
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[14:17:25] <Colourless> hi
[14:17:44] <Darke> Hello. <bow>
[14:22:26] <Colourless> wjp: i've worked out how to get the shape dimentions out of typeflag.dat
[14:24:11] <Colourless> it's appears that each glob is divided into 16 'tiles'. the dimentions of the shapes are in 'tiles'
[14:27:53] <wjp> hm, so each frame of a given shape has the same dimensions?
[14:28:03] <Colourless> yeah
[14:30:45] <Colourless> have a look at shapes 98 to 108
[14:33:41] * wjp calculated the shape dims from the bounding box + origin location
[14:34:19] <Colourless> yeah i noticed. worked pretty good too, except for some cases where it REALLY didn't work (i.e. negetive sizes calculated)
[14:34:27] <wjp> yeah
[14:34:55] <Wumpus> anti-chests :)
[14:35:06] <wjp> but I got those mostly for non-object shapes
[14:35:14] <wjp> (animations)
[14:35:24] <wjp> anyway, where in typeflag.dat are the dims?
[14:36:01] <Colourless> heh, around demon's crag there were quite a few shapes that got negetive dims
[14:36:25] <Wumpus> argh, stupid falsely dated emails.... i've now got my exult-general folder growing not at the top :|
[14:36:33] <Colourless> 8 bytes are used for each shape. byte 2 high word is x, byte 3 low word is y and byte 3 high word is z
[14:36:59] <wjp> word?
[14:37:29] <Colourless> heh, nibble i mean
[14:37:38] <Colourless> i.e. 4 bits
[14:37:40] <wjp> k, makes more sense that way
[14:37:47] <wjp> :-)
[14:38:21] <wjp> feel like writing a typeflag.txt?
[14:38:57] <Colourless> i've already started something, but it's just a listing of a few shapes to see the pattern
[14:39:29] * Wumpus considers jsf's way of fixing the teleport eggs thing... hmmm, interesting
[14:39:29] <Colourless> i'll write up what I know so far
[14:39:41] <wjp> Wumpus: how did he fix it?
[14:40:13] <Wumpus> roughly, when you step on a teleport eggs, do a find_nearby_eggs to find a path egg... or at least, thats the impression i got at a very brief glance
[14:41:16] <wjp> Colourless: the 'globnum' field in a map object is actually 'quality', btw
[14:41:22] <wjp> unknown1 = flags
[14:41:35] <wjp> unknown2 = pointer to next object in list
[14:41:51] <wjp> http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Jason+Ely+ultima+objects&selm=8snhlr%24jak%241%40news.jump.net&rnum=1
[14:41:54] <Colourless> ah ok. makes sense
[14:42:17] <Colourless> is it also shared with quantity like u7?
[14:42:33] <wjp> dunno
[14:42:41] <wjp> I'd have to look up a pile of coins to check
[14:46:02] * Wumpus glances at forum... wow
[14:46:05] <wjp> qualities of the piles of coins on map 4 are between 1 and 11
[14:46:06] <Wumpus> so thats what the vision is :-)
[14:46:09] <wjp> so it's likely
[14:46:23] * Wumpus had always assumed the vision on monk isle was siranush or something (the `petra' thread)
[14:48:26] <Colourless> A nice Jason Ely comment: The primary issue with this method in Ultima
[14:48:26] <Colourless> 8 AND Crusader was that whenever a change was made to the .EXE file, it
[14:48:26] <Colourless> invalidated all savegames since the VFT offsets have shifted.
[14:48:48] <wjp> yeah, the savegame format were really sick
[14:48:50] <wjp> s/were/was/
[14:50:26] <Wumpus> ber sleep time
[14:50:32] <wjp> night
[14:50:36] <Darke> Night.
[14:50:36] <sbx> night
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[14:53:23] <wjp> Here are a list of some of the flags in the .status field...
[14:53:23] <wjp> #define DISPOSABLE 0x0002
[14:53:23] <wjp> #define OWNED 0x0004
[14:53:23] <wjp> #define CONTAINED 0x0008
[14:53:23] <wjp> #define INVISIBLE 0x0010
[14:53:24] <wjp> #define FLIPPED 0x0020
[14:53:26] <wjp> #define IN_NPC_LIST 0x0040
[14:53:28] <wjp> #define EQUIPPED 0x0200
[14:53:30] <wjp> #define BOUNCING 0x0400
[14:53:32] <wjp> #define ETHEREAL 0x0800
[14:53:34] <wjp> #define HANGING 0x1000
[14:53:36] <wjp> #define LOW_FRICTION 0x4000
[14:53:38] <wjp> (again from Jason Ely)
[14:54:33] <wjp> I wonder if he means the 'flags' field
[14:54:48] * sbx is FLIPPED.
[14:56:08] <Darke> wjp: Probably, they'll all fit in the unsigned short.
[14:56:30] * Darke considers the fact they're padded to it too, also is a 'hint'.
[14:57:09] <Colourless> sound like flags
[15:00:26] <Colourless> perhaps attempting to contact jason ely might be a good idea
[15:00:52] <wjp> Dominus said that Jason emailed him about pentagram a little while ago
[15:01:07] <Colourless> why dominus?
[15:01:26] <wjp> IIRC Dominus posted about pentagram somewhere. (rgcud?)
[15:01:36] <wjp> it should be in the logs, I'll look it up
[15:01:37] <Colourless> ah yeah probably
[15:02:07] <wjp> logs of 2 Jan 2002
[15:02:59] <wjp> (around 20:30)
[15:03:01] <sbx> is there a search feature on the logs?
[15:03:05] <wjp> grep :-)
[15:03:06] <Colourless> url?
[15:03:12] <wjp> ?logs
[15:03:12] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php3
[15:03:15] <sbx> web interface
[15:03:18] <wjp> add ?log=2Jan2002
[15:03:25] <Colourless> ah, those logs :-)
[15:03:40] <wjp> sbx: no, sorry
[15:03:48] <wjp> google has quite a few of them indexed, though
[15:03:48] <Nadir> sbx: yes, google
[15:03:55] <sbx> hmm
[15:04:08] <sbx> i wouldnt think it would do that :)
[15:05:21] <sbx> thanks
[15:05:32] <Colourless> should get his email from dom so we could ask him specific questions
[15:11:07] * wjp nods
[15:16:09] <Nadir> Colourless: you still haven't answered my question
[15:20:12] <Colourless> what question?
[15:20:47] <Nadir> <Colourless> i was thinking just have shared copies
[15:20:47] <Nadir> <Nadir> shared copies ?
[15:21:51] <Colourless> put them in common
[15:21:51] <Colourless> those 2 file will not change much, if at all
[15:25:34] <Nadir> a copy of exceptions.h in each module ?
[15:26:27] <Colourless> no, one in common for both
[15:26:27] <Colourless> that's just my opinion though
[15:28:07] <Colourless> if something is used by both, i think it should go in common
[15:30:12] * Darke thinks that makes sense.
[15:31:51] <wjp> hmm, currently we only include subdirectories from 'common', not files
[15:31:53] <Nadir> We can't put it in common
[15:31:59] <Nadir> wjp: exactly
[15:32:18] <wjp> what would "pentagram pentagram common" do? (in CVSROOT/modules)
[15:32:26] <Nadir> &common
[15:32:38] <Nadir> pentagram/common/files
[15:33:31] <wjp> or maybe this: "headers common exceptions.h", "pentagram &headers &conf ...."
[15:33:48] <wjp> (to make a module "headers" containing the header files in common, and include that one in pentagram
[15:34:06] <wjp> "pentagram pentagram &headers &conf ...", sorry
[15:34:16] <Nadir> that's what I suggested this morning, but I was laughed at
[15:35:06] <wjp> hm?
[15:42:19] <Colourless> fingolfin
[15:42:59] <Colourless> i don't think that a module named headers or shared or similar is a bad idea
[16:02:49] * wjp has to go for a while
[16:02:51] <wjp> bye
[16:02:55] <Darke> Bye.
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[16:16:21] <Nadir> shall I create a "headers" module then ?
[16:16:44] * Nadir notes that it will appear under pentagram/headers and exult/headers
[16:18:36] <Darke> Might as well, it looks like you've got some sort of agreement from at least everyone here. <grin>
[16:18:46] <sbx> I Agree.
[16:19:50] * sbx will sleep now(in the channel).
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[16:23:45] <Nadir> done
[16:28:03] * Darke commits his conf/ changes and hopes he's not going to break anything. <grin> No doubt it'll break for Fingolfin or someone else using a 'niche' system, like Colourless. <innocentwiggle>
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[16:38:09] * Darke 's body has decided it's time to sleep now. "Night!"
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[23:15:09] <Dominus> hi
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