#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 9 Jul 2001 (GMT)

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[00:39:22] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult, the open source Ultima 7 and U7 part 2 engine
[00:39:22] --- Topic for #exult set by ChanServ at Sat Jul 7 22:31:57 2001
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[01:48:15] <realmz> Hi
[01:49:12] <realmz> Yep, I'm probably lagging
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[11:28:17] --- ChanServ has changed the topic to: Exult, the open source Ultima 7 and U7 part 2 engine
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[12:21:19] <Nadir> hi
[12:21:34] <Kirben> Hi
[12:22:09] <Kirben> New guardian sync seems to work well but can you get rid of sub titles ?
[12:22:30] <Nadir> Heh, we need an option for that
[12:22:47] <Nadir> it would be nice to get lip-synch too...
[12:23:14] <Kirben> I thought the mouth movements were a bit different too
[12:24:19] <Nadir> What I've checked in is sync between voice and text. Lips is too complex
[12:28:03] <Kirben> Yes lip syncing always seems to require much work
[12:29:11] <Kirben> The new HD pack gfx in Blue Shift for Half Life/Opposing Force sure add good lip syncing to the games characters.
[12:31:39] <Nadir> we need a way to match syllables to sequences of lip shapes. And on top of that we need to sync it all up because some syllables are longer than others. Hard hard hard work
[12:31:59] * Nadir wonders if he mentioned that it was hard work
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[12:41:20] <Nadir> hi
[12:41:25] <Colourless> hi
[12:41:50] <Nadir> thanks for the mouse stuff. It worked great (and I didn't have to change a single line of code :)
[12:42:04] <Colourless> cool
[12:42:44] <Colourless> only the interlaced and point sampling scalers work at 3+ factors. Though, Interlaced looks terrible with odd factors
[12:43:40] <Nadir> I now have another problem. I need to re-center the Gamemenu gump as the resolution changes. How do I do that ?
[12:44:01] <Colourless> good question, i've no idea.
[12:58:59] <Nadir> who centers the gumps on screen ?
[12:59:20] <Colourless> for the modal gumps it's generally done when the gump is created
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[13:13:48] <wjp> hi
[13:13:59] <Nadir> hi wjp
[13:14:12] <Colourless> hi
[13:14:31] <wjp> hmmm, recentering gumps... good point
[13:23:16] <Nadir> are event mouse coords in gumps relative to the gump's origin ?
[13:24:22] <wjp> not sure
[13:25:07] <wjp> find_object: no
[13:26:49] <wjp> on_button: no
[13:26:55] <wjp> so I guess no
[13:26:58] <Nadir> ok
[13:34:33] <wjp> maybe we should go document some of the interfaces properly
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[13:34:40] <wjp> hi
[13:34:43] <Dominus> hi
[13:34:55] <Colourless> hi
[13:35:01] <Nadir> Also, the check button coords should be part of each Gump, not in Gump.cc
[13:35:08] <Dominus> wjp: you did the plasma thing on BG, right?
[13:35:19] <wjp> Dominus: yeah
[13:36:11] <Dominus> wjp: hoe about adding the moon gate thingy on BG/SI when clickong Journey onward and Create new game (once the character generating is done)?
[13:36:46] <Colourless> easier said that done
[13:37:11] <wjp> displaying it would be easy, animating it a bit tricky
[13:37:27] <Dominus> I guessed as much :-(
[13:38:01] <Nadir> I guess they did it using interrupts on DOS
[13:38:20] <Colourless> yeah probably
[13:38:31] <wjp> we would probably have to resort to threading
[13:38:38] <Colourless> bad idea really
[13:38:56] <Nadir> We'd need to check that some things are thread-safe...
[13:39:06] <Colourless> either the animating would have to done on a separate thread or the loading on another thread
[13:39:14] <Nadir> Can anyone say D-I-F-F-I-C-U-L-T ?
[13:39:23] <Dominus> and what about the alternate introduction on SI, I think (Batlin, know that my face is much muppet like, or something like this )?
[13:39:24] <Colourless> I had enough problems with getting the midi player to be smp safe
[13:39:36] <Colourless> dom, that intro is already there!
[13:39:46] <Dominus> how to see it?
[13:39:56] <Colourless> f11 from memory in the game
[13:40:05] <Colourless> it's in the cheat help menu
[13:40:28] <Colourless> scroll i mean
[13:42:12] <Dominus> Ahh, I always thought it just shows the intro again, like it does in BG... :-)
[13:43:39] <Nadir> Quick ! Add that to the FAQ !
[13:44:22] <Dominus> yep, I will do :-)
[13:47:35] <wjp> Nadir: shall I close the 'sound not synched in intro' bug?
[13:48:04] <Dominus> wjp: how about changing the ctrl+h cheat scroll in SI to "F11 - show alternate Intro" ?
[13:48:09] <Nadir> wjp: yes
[13:48:25] <Dominus> oh, btw, Nadir, thanks for synching it!!!
[13:48:37] * Dominus has to change the FAQ now again
[13:49:19] <Nadir> Read the above wrt to what has been done and what hasn't (so users don't expect too much :)
[13:49:41] <Nadir> I'm checking in a nice fix
[13:49:44] <Dominus> synch to text but not to lips, right?
[13:49:51] <Nadir> yep
[13:50:22] <Nadir> Kirben asked for an option to remove the subtitles. I kinda like them
[13:50:51] <Nadir> A thought: should we pin the menus/intros to 320x200 ?
[13:51:23] <Dominus> Nadir: yeah, but the option should be like: speech turned off, subtitles on, speech turned on, sub off
[13:51:30] <Dominus> like the original did
[13:52:39] <Nadir> Re: my latest commit - people were complaining about the sliders in Exult. They work better now, IMHO.
[13:52:50] <Colourless> what did you do?
[13:53:00] * Colourless can't be bothered checking for himself
[13:53:10] <Nadir> Allow you to click on the white area of the slider, so the diamond moves quickly there
[13:53:18] <Colourless> ah
[13:54:30] <Dominus> and how about allowing the left/right arrow keys in handling the sliders
[13:54:51] <Dominus> while you are at it
[13:54:54] <Nadir> VideoOptions is still lacking Gamma sliders. Shall I check it in anyway ?
[13:55:03] <Nadir> Dominus: that's a good idea.
[13:55:06] <wjp> Nadir: sure
[13:55:12] <Colourless> yeah
[13:55:47] * Dominus hoped he had some good/doable ideas today
[13:59:42] <wjp> uh oh... adding an integer zero to a string _is_ supposed to do something
[14:00:21] <Colourless> what broke?
[14:00:29] <wjp> time display
[14:00:34] <Colourless> hehe
[14:00:37] <wjp> 2:0 instead of 2:00
[14:01:05] <Colourless> how are you going to fix the problem?
[14:01:22] <wjp> so it could be that the original's usecode values had an 'undefined' state
[14:02:21] <Nadir> checkin in
[14:02:38] * Nadir is certain he's just broken everything
[14:02:49] <Colourless> good work!
[14:05:39] <Nadir> Game_window is massive !
[14:06:13] <wjp> yeah, kind of :/
[14:07:20] <Colourless> that's why I said to you before, don't add anything to is
[14:07:21] <Colourless> it
[14:07:42] <Nadir> But nobody listened
[14:07:46] <Nadir> :)
[14:07:52] <Nadir> Let's blame Jeff
[14:08:00] <Nadir> (as he's not here)
[14:08:11] <Colourless> that's what we always do
[14:08:11] * wjp adds that to quotes.txt ;-)
[14:08:19] <Dominus> :-)
[14:08:22] <wjp> and that too :-)
[14:09:39] <wjp> ok... how about adding a boolean 'undefined' to the Usecode_value?
[14:09:55] <Colourless> that could work
[14:12:44] <Colourless> i wonder if any documentation was ever actually written for USECODE.
[14:13:03] <Nadir> docwhat ?
[14:13:24] <Nadir> i wonder if any documentation was ever actually written for Exult
[14:13:26] <wjp> ...or maybe an extra Val_type 'undefined'
[14:15:21] <Nadir> Dominus: left/right key support for slider gump checked in
[14:15:37] <Dominus> cool, thanks
[14:16:30] <Nadir> We need grouping support for the inventory. If I drag 50 coins on top of 70 coins I should get one pile with 120 coins
[14:16:54] <wjp> isn't maximum pile size 100?
[14:16:59] <Dominus> 126
[14:17:21] <wjp> 126?
[14:17:30] <Nadir> 2^7-
[14:17:33] <Nadir> 2^7-1
[14:17:46] <wjp> -2, actually :-)
[14:17:47] <Nadir> 2^7-2
[14:17:48] <Nadir> oops
[14:17:51] <Dominus> Nadir you mean, that if you drag 50 coins onto your paperdoll that it does that automatically?
[14:18:12] <Nadir> It doesn't now, I think.
[14:18:15] <Colourless> i thought the max is 100
[14:18:25] * wjp rebuilds Exult *again* :-)
[14:18:52] <Dominus> so far all stackable items max at 126
[14:19:27] <Colourless> why 126?
[14:19:38] <Colourless> i doubt anyone here knows
[14:19:42] <Nadir> Colourless: didn't we just have that conversation ?
[14:19:52] <Dominus> it worked like this in the original as well, at least in sI
[14:20:22] <Colourless> i would have thought 127 would be more logical because it's 2^7-1
[14:20:43] <Nadir> Colourless: what about the last entry in TODO.xml ?
[14:20:57] * Dominus promises to check this out the next time he fires up WinME (u7dpmi is just toooo slow to test)
[14:21:56] <wjp> <owner>Medium</owner> ?
[14:22:13] <wjp> (gameplay options)
[14:22:30] <Nadir> Make that <owner>Willem Jan</owner>
[14:22:38] <wjp> nah :-)
[14:22:45] <wjp> well, maybe
[14:23:02] <wjp> actually, why not :-)
[14:23:15] <Nadir> we need an XSL sheet for TODO.xml. Dominus ?
[14:23:42] * Colourless asks "What exactly is it you want my opinion about"
[14:23:43] <Dominus> aehm, actually Fingolfin build that xsl sheet :-)
[14:24:10] <wjp> Colourless: status bars? :-)
[14:24:23] <Colourless> what about them? They are on the todo list ;-)
[14:25:30] <Dominus> wjp: about that "makefile" you asked for the FAQ, a little readme:To build the FAQ you need Xalan (http://xml.apache.org/xalan-j/) and on that page see what else you need. Then you need to add xalan.jar and xerces.jar (from the Xalan package) to the system classpath.
[14:25:30] <Dominus> Running "java org.apache.xalan.xslt.Process -IN exult_faq.xml -XSL faq_html.xsl -OUT faq.html" will build the file then.
[14:25:32] <Nadir> Colourless: do you actually have any code for that ?
[14:25:45] <Colourless> well, no.
[14:26:29] <Dominus> wjp: should I add this to the cvs?
[14:29:02] <Nadir> wjp: noticed my last commit log ?
[14:29:15] <wjp> Nadir: yeah :-)
[14:29:42] <wjp> Dominus: sounds good
[14:29:52] <Dominus> will do then
[14:29:53] <Colourless> i really should start on the status pics
[14:30:05] * Dominus cheers
[14:30:13] <Colourless> I've been wondering, what should I do for negetive health values?
[14:30:51] <Dominus> keep it at 0 level?
[14:31:12] <Colourless> yeah, that's probably a good idea
[14:31:18] * Nadir agrees
[14:31:25] <wjp> ok, the 'undefined' thing fixed the time display...
[14:31:33] <wjp> yeah, empty bar sounds good
[14:31:58] <Colourless> maximum hp is determined by str isn't it
[14:32:48] <wjp> yeah
[14:33:38] <wjp> hmm... the 'gibberish speak' no longer shows any extra zeroes anymore, but does seem to be missing some nouns here and there
[14:34:56] <Dominus> Colourless: and remember that you can set your strength now to very high numbers with the cheat tool :-)
[14:35:18] <Colourless> can't save them though
[14:35:23] <Nadir> bbl
[14:35:25] <-- Nadir has left IRC (I feel like dumping a core)
[14:35:30] <Dominus> ah
[14:35:43] <Dominus> how high can you save?
[14:35:45] <Colourless> limitied to 5 bit number in SI and 8 bit number in BG
[14:36:02] <Dominus> k
[14:36:19] <Dominus> btw, great work on the cheat menu
[14:36:36] <Colourless> still got more to do on that
[14:37:35] <Colourless> what should I call these new face status things?
[14:37:52] <Dominus> status bars?
[14:38:27] <Colourless> too close to status_gump which already exists for my liking.
[14:38:42] <Dominus> face_bars
[14:38:48] <Dominus> face_
[14:38:55] <Dominus> face_status
[14:39:00] <Colourless> we got face_buttons ;-)
[14:39:03] <wjp> health bars?
[14:39:10] <Colourless> i'm thinking portrait something
[14:39:16] <wjp> party status?
[14:39:20] <wjp> party health?
[14:39:26] <wjp> party portraits?
[14:39:44] <Colourless> yeah that sounds ok
[14:39:48] <wjp> which one? :-)
[14:39:59] <Colourless> party_portrait
[14:42:42] * wjp commits "alternate SI intro"-rename & useval 'fix'
[14:44:21] <Colourless> todo.xml is broken in IE because it can't find the non existant todo.dtd file
[14:45:52] <wjp> that alternate intro is weird... (oh, and the font spacing seems wrong, too)
[14:47:58] <Colourless> what's wrong with the fonts?
[14:48:55] <wjp> letters are too far apart
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[14:49:18] * Colourless checks in the original
[14:49:55] <Nadir> b
[14:50:01] * wjp notices another one of those palette flashes when escaping the intro, too
[14:50:04] <wjp> wb
[14:50:17] <Nadir> colourless: todo.dtd someone needs to write it. I'm too lazy
[14:51:00] <wjp> can't we borrow someone else's? there's a reasonable chance someone already did something like this before
[14:51:00] <Nadir> once that is done we can have a nice TODO page on the homesite
[14:51:31] <Dominus> alternate intro: when viewing in resolutions higher than 320x200 you have a weird background (the actual game you played at the moment)
[14:51:57] <Colourless> yeah, the font looks like it is 1 pixel out
[14:53:15] <Nadir> dominus: I proposed earlier to have the resolution for intros/menus pinned at 320x200
[14:55:45] <Dominus> Nadir, donīt know about that one. Would solve some issues, thatīs right
[14:56:02] <Nadir> TODO DTD - http://ed.phy.duke.edu/xml/dtd/apache/todo-v10/
[14:56:56] <Colourless> keeping the res ay 320x200 sounds like a good idea to me
[14:58:15] <Nadir> we then kick into "gameplay-res" when the user selects "Journey Onward"
[14:58:16] <wjp> do any of you remember if the original labeled '12:15' (in the afternoon) as AM or PM?
[14:58:42] <Colourless> pm
[14:59:00] <wjp> hmm
[14:59:01] <Colourless> 12:00 -> 23:59 = PM
[14:59:16] <wjp> are you sure?
[14:59:22] <Colourless> yes
[14:59:30] <Dominus> :-)
[14:59:33] <wjp> BG or SI?
[14:59:49] <Colourless> the real world ;-)
[15:00:00] <wjp> ... :-)
[15:00:09] <wjp> I knew _that_ ;-)
[15:00:19] <Colourless> what clock are you testing?
[15:00:25] <wjp> watch
[15:01:29] <Colourless> definately pm
[15:01:43] * Colourless requests everyone ignore his spelling
[15:02:11] <wjp> hmm, looking at the usecode, I'd say BG says AM and SI PM
[15:04:00] <Nadir> consistent
[15:04:28] <Colourless> yeah it does
[15:04:39] <Colourless> odd
[15:04:40] --> realmz has joined #exult
[15:04:54] <realmz> Wow more than 2 people here!
[15:05:03] <wjp> :-)
[15:05:05] <wjp> hi
[15:05:10] <Colourless> hi
[15:05:14] <Dominus> hi
[15:05:19] <Nadir> hi
[15:05:23] <realmz> And no lag! Amazing!
[15:05:23] <wjp> usually a few people in here around european daytime
[15:05:36] <realmz> Well I've been here in USA Nighttime
[15:07:49] <realmz> Has exult been tested with linux kernel version 2.4.5?
[15:08:34] <wjp> dunno
[15:08:51] <Nadir> realmz: that's what I use.
[15:09:04] <Nadir> but it shouldn't make any difference
[15:09:15] <realmz> Just wondering if that was the crashing cause
[15:09:22] <Nadir> unlikely
[15:09:24] <wjp> nah, very unlikely
[15:09:29] <realmz> Switch distros reinstall exult and bad results
[15:09:44] <Colourless> what version?
[15:09:45] <realmz> Crashes on intro and walking into the blacksmith's shop
[15:09:46] <Nadir> maybe your SDL is buggy
[15:09:50] <Colourless> of Exult
[15:10:01] <realmz> Probably a old Exult version
[15:10:03] <Nadir> can you hear speech ?
[15:10:07] <realmz> I downloaded the new one
[15:10:09] <realmz> No speech
[15:10:17] <realmz> Because I compiled sound into the kernel
[15:10:25] <realmz> And it seems that midi support isn't included
[15:10:41] <wjp> you'll need timidity for midi
[15:11:06] <Nadir> you compiled sound into the kernel and you get no speech ? Sound from other apps ?
[15:11:29] <realmz> I get sound from other apps
[15:11:32] <realmz> Like Quake 3
[15:11:45] <realmz> But it seems that midi is effected
[15:11:55] <realmz> Allegro would say no synth found
[15:12:27] <Nadir> realmz: we don't use the Linux synth for MIDI. Install Timidity
[15:12:51] <realmz> Hmmm...
[15:13:19] <realmz> And do I have to compile exult to link with that library?
[15:13:28] <wjp> timidity isn't a library
[15:13:32] <Nadir> it's not a library
[15:13:35] <Nadir> :)
[15:13:47] <realmz> It's not?
[15:14:34] <Nadir> It's an executable: Exult spawns it to play MIDI
[15:14:59] <realmz> I see
[15:15:13] <Nadir> what distro ?
[15:16:15] <realmz> RedHat
[15:16:16] <Dominus> ok, have to go, cu l8r
[15:16:20] <-- Dominus has left IRC (Got to play Exult now)
[15:16:26] <Nadir> 7.1 ?
[15:16:55] <realmz> Actually 7.0
[15:17:05] <Nadir> I believe Timidity is on the cd
[15:17:18] <wjp> it's the 'timidity++' package
[15:17:20] <realmz> Really?
[15:17:30] <realmz> Oh well, I'm downloading it anyway
[15:17:38] <realmz> I don't want to have to get the CD anyway
[15:17:48] <Nadir> You need the EAW patches as well.
[15:17:53] <Nadir> Or a soundfont
[15:18:33] <Nadir> http://www.stardate.bc.ca/eawpatches/html/default.htm
[15:18:38] <Nadir> (beware it's 20MB)
[15:19:15] <realmz> 20MB
[15:19:29] <realmz> That could add up to 3 hours for downloading
[15:19:32] <realmz> or more
[15:20:05] <wjp> the RH package already has some ok instruments
[15:21:05] <Nadir> gotta go. see you tomorrow
[15:21:09] <-- Nadir has left IRC (Read error to Nadir[]: Connection reset by peer)
[15:21:10] <wjp> bye
[15:22:43] <realmz> Anybody consider a engine for Ultima 8?
[15:23:24] <wjp> not really, no
[15:24:26] <Colourless> yes! ;-) just kidding
[15:25:13] <realmz> Anybody play Ultima 9
[15:25:31] <wjp> yeah
[15:25:37] <Colourless> one too many times.... awww, again just kidding
[15:25:54] <realmz> It got bad reviews
[15:26:04] <realmz> And it seems many fans didn't like it
[15:26:24] <Colourless> for good reasons too
[15:26:28] <wjp> yeah, it nearly completely ignored Ultima's history
[15:26:52] <realmz> Yeah, though it was still a intresting game
[15:27:04] <wjp> it was an ok game. I enjoyed playing it
[15:27:35] <Colourless> it was ok.
[15:27:47] <realmz> I agree
[15:27:57] <Colourless> if it wasn't an ultima I wouldn't have bothered with it though
[15:28:48] <realmz> Is the AlterU9 project dead?
[15:29:15] <wjp> dunno
[15:29:27] <wjp> I think their website may be down
[15:29:36] <realmz> That would explain it
[15:29:42] <wjp> (they seem to have really bad luck with website hosts...)
[15:30:00] <realmz> They aren't the only ones with bad luck with hosts
[15:30:33] <realmz> 5 hosts who trashed the only site I ever bought a domain for
[15:33:04] --> Fingolfin has joined #exult
[15:33:10] <wjp> hi!
[15:33:20] <Fingolfin> hiya
[15:33:30] <Fingolfin> weird
[15:33:37] <wjp> ?
[15:33:40] <Fingolfin> I couldn't contact. irc.openprojects.net, had to use eu.o.net
[15:34:04] <Fingolfin> irc.o.net refused connections or something... hrm
[15:34:06] <Fingolfin> oh well ;)
[15:34:18] <Colourless> hi
[15:34:21] <wjp> maybe one of their servers is down
[15:34:23] <Fingolfin> passed my exam on friday ;)
[15:34:26] <Fingolfin> wjp: might me
[15:34:38] * wjp mights Fingolfin ;-)
[15:34:48] <Fingolfin> erhm
[15:34:48] <Fingolfin> ;)
[15:34:54] <Fingolfin> I deserve that I guess ;)
[15:35:00] * Fingolfin luvs splling
[15:35:08] <wjp> not that I have any idea what I just did :-)
[15:35:30] <Fingolfin> wjp: <nasal> oh, you dirty dirty little boy, not in front of all these people </nasal>
[15:35:58] <Fingolfin> hm, I have to decide at some point in the future where I want so spend my year abroad...
[15:36:50] <Fingolfin> london? Birmingham? bordeaux? eindhoven? new orleans? barcelona? stockholm? there are at least 12 other possibilities as part of the ERASMUS program
[15:37:18] <wjp> hmm, isn't Leiden a part of that program too?
[15:37:54] <wjp> or maybe I heard about it somewhere else... not sure
[15:38:40] <Fingolfin> in the netherlands, I only know about eindhoven... well, we are talking about places for mathematicians, may be that influences the choice, too ;)
[15:38:59] <Fingolfin> eindhoven is quite reknown for its research in cryptology I think
[15:39:06] <wjp> yeah
[15:40:37] <realmz> Anybody know a library that just as good or better than SDL?
[15:40:43] <wjp> SDL :-)
[15:40:43] <Fingolfin> uhm
[15:40:50] <Fingolfin> define "just as good or better", please
[15:40:57] <Colourless> sdl is the best as far as I know
[15:41:09] <Fingolfin> well
[15:41:20] <wjp> depends on what you want it for, I guess
[15:41:31] <Fingolfin> it depends on your priorites I get: # of support platform, speed, stability, feature set, supported languages etc. etc.
[15:41:33] <Fingolfin> ;)
[15:41:38] <Fingolfin> s/get/think ;)
[15:41:46] <realmz> The only platform that's important is linux.
[15:41:56] <wjp> X?
[15:42:02] <realmz> And basicly I'm looking for a similar library with more control over the windows
[15:42:34] <Fingolfin> if you only want to support X-Win than that is different of course
[15:42:55] <Fingolfin> although IMNHO "The only platform that's important is linux" can only be your personal opinion of course ;)
[15:43:03] <realmz> I just don't like how SDL doesn't let you have direct access to the Windows
[15:43:33] <wjp> direct access to what part of the windows?
[15:43:55] <realmz> The windows themself
[15:44:02] <realmz> Like the window SDL creates
[15:44:07] <Fingolfin> realmz: well that is on purpose, although you can get access to the windows via some API, I think
[15:44:13] <Fingolfin> windows are different on every platform
[15:44:32] <realmz> I'm only intrested in Linux right now
[15:44:41] <wjp> I think you can get a window handle through some kind of SDL_wm function
[15:44:58] <realmz> Hmm...
[15:45:33] <Fingolfin> realmz: be carefuly, if you only target X/Linux now, you might regret it later - just my two cents ;)
[15:45:42] <Fingolfin> why do you want to access the X wins directly, anyway?
[15:46:57] <realmz> To add to the interface
[15:47:32] <Colourless> why use something like gtk?
[15:48:30] <Fingolfin> ryan: why or why not? ;)
[15:48:36] <Fingolfin> relamz: what do you mean?
[15:48:52] <Colourless> opps yeah, i meant why not
[15:48:58] <Fingolfin> realmz: if you want to write a game, and want so provide widgets (e.g. buttons) I'd recommend you use on of the many many SDL based GUI libs
[15:49:13] <Fingolfin> realmz: what exactly do you have in mind=
[15:49:31] <realmz> I don't like to use other libraries
[15:49:39] <realmz> I like to keep library usage minimal
[15:50:31] <Fingolfin> well for games I recommend static linking anyway ;)(
[15:50:59] <realmz> Actually I want to make a tile based game
[15:52:22] <Fingolfin> pure tiles, or isometric tiles?
[15:52:35] <Fingolfin> BTW, you are aware that there is #SDL?
[15:52:46] <realmz> Yes
[15:52:52] <Fingolfin> there are many more people there with detailed knowledge on writing games with and without SDL ;)
[15:58:19] --> as has joined #exult
[15:58:29] <-- realmz has left #exult
[15:58:37] <wjp> Colourless: do you want me to fix those scaling problems?
[15:58:53] <as> where can I download exult?
[15:59:08] <wjp> exult.sourceforge.net/download.shtml
[15:59:18] <Colourless> wjp: yes, fix them
[15:59:38] <as> thanks
[15:59:59] <wjp> np
[16:00:50] <-- as has left #exult (Client Exiting)
[16:01:04] <Fingolfin> scaling problems?
[16:02:40] <wjp> yeah, the updated area for the scalers needs to be enlarged a bit,
[16:02:51] <wjp> because pixels outside of the area depend on those inside it
[16:03:34] <Colourless> the problem effects 2xSAI and SuperEagle
[16:03:47] <wjp> and bilinear?
[16:03:50] <Fingolfin> ah yeah, those
[16:05:26] <Colourless> thinking... it might, increase bilinear by 1
[16:08:37] --> ashp has joined #exult
[16:08:44] <ashp> Hola, anyone alive? :)
[16:08:50] <wjp> hi
[16:09:25] <ashp> Anyone tried the training stuff in serpent isle?
[16:09:33] <ashp> I just upgraded to the latest snapshot from a much older one.
[16:09:40] <Colourless> hi
[16:09:47] <ashp> I'm wondering if it just doesn't work still, or my random upgrade attempt caused trouble.
[16:10:15] <wjp> I haven't tried it recently
[16:10:19] <ashp> After the avatar happily _killed_ everyone in the little training arena, some guy turned up and wouldn't die, or even allow himself to be targeted
[16:10:32] <ashp> so I got stuck with my avatar in the arena, and some guy trying to punch him for about ten minutes
[16:10:44] <ashp> At least upgrading fixed the guy at the desk, he was missing before :)
[16:11:08] <wjp> hmm, that sounds pretty broken :-)
[16:11:35] <ashp> I started playing serpent isle with a snapshot that has to be at least two months old now
[16:11:46] <ashp> so I'm wondering if I just had broken stuff that had made its way into the saved game anyway.
[16:12:51] <wjp> it is possible it will behave differently if you start a new game, but I'm not sure
[16:13:09] <Colourless> wjp: i've been thinking, we should get expack to produce a header file that contains the index of files in the flex. That would allow us to change the order of the contents of the flex
[16:14:10] <wjp> hmm, might be a good idea, yes
[16:16:14] * Colourless just created his first shape
[16:16:48] <wjp> using the photoshop plugin?
[16:16:55] <Colourless> yeah
[16:17:15] <Colourless> i used photoshop too (for guides)
[16:17:24] <wjp> ugh... I've been playing too much Diablo2... I keep wanting to press Tab to show an automap
[16:20:14] <wjp> Colourless: how did you start, btw? did you load an already existing shape?
[16:20:34] <Colourless> i just made a new file
[16:21:05] <wjp> did you load the right palette?
[16:21:11] <Colourless> yeah I did
[16:21:28] * Colourless looks at flx.in and screams
[16:21:49] <Colourless> how am I going to work out the index for me new shape? ;-)
[16:22:04] <wjp> look up the one Tristan used for the last one in there :-)
[16:22:23] <wjp> or use line number - 2
[16:23:10] <Colourless> bah
[16:23:25] * Colourless decides that to rewrite expack to make a header
[16:24:49] <wjp> that will produce some 'interesting' dependency issues
[16:25:16] <Colourless> yeah, probably
[16:27:47] <wjp> that's one of the issues with those silly recursive makefiles
[16:28:42] <wjp> although from a modularity point of view, they're not that bad
[16:29:23] <Colourless> you'll need to fix the makefiles for me
[16:29:38] <Colourless> the makefile.am's that is
[16:29:45] <wjp> sure
[16:29:59] <wjp> Makefile.win32/cygwin/be will need updating too
[16:30:09] <Colourless> yeah, i'll do them
[16:30:33] <Colourless> the output name is just the flex name without the extension with .h
[16:30:45] <wjp> not exult_flx.h?
[16:31:07] <wjp> a header like 'exult.h' is a bit misleading I think
[16:31:15] <Colourless> yeah, just considered that myself
[16:31:41] <Colourless> i'll make it _ext.h
[16:31:55] <wjp> ext?
[16:32:14] <Colourless> ext = flx, whatever
[16:32:23] <wjp> oh, I see. ok
[16:54:48] <Colourless> should I just use #define
[16:56:04] <wjp> yeah, why not
[16:56:37] <Colourless> it causes some long names such as EXULT_BG_FLX_HOE_OF_DESTRUCTION_SHP
[16:57:02] <wjp> hmm, true
[16:57:26] <wjp> namespace filled with constants? exult_bg_flx::hoe_of_destruction?
[16:57:40] <Colourless> or an enum
[16:58:11] <Colourless> either way, the names are still kind of long.
[16:58:42] <Colourless> i'll just used #defines, i've already written the code
[16:58:51] <Colourless> changing it wouldn't be hard though
[16:59:24] <Colourless> i've even put in
[16:59:25] <Colourless> #ifndef EXULT_BG_FLX_INCLUDED
[16:59:25] <Colourless> #define EXULT_BG_FLX_INCLUDED
[17:03:19] <Colourless> question is how to figure out which files need changing to use the new headers
[17:04:46] <wjp> empty exult*.flx and trap all segfaults ;-)
[17:05:02] <Colourless> hehe, if only that would work
[17:10:59] <wjp> going over the files in the flx's would probably work best
[17:12:23] <ashp> oh, btw, a minor irritating thing, when you double click to talk to someone and they start to move over to you, and you walk towards them, they don't notice your position is changing.
[17:12:33] <ashp> That might be hard to fix, depending on the code I guess. :)
[17:14:12] <wjp> hmm, mildly tricky, yes
[17:16:08] <wjp> no, worse than that :-)
[17:16:59] <Colourless> why?
[17:17:11] <Colourless> what's exactly is the problem?
[17:17:32] <wjp> SI talk schedule works by creating a path to the coords of the avatar
[17:17:46] <Colourless> doesn't have to
[17:18:10] <wjp> true
[17:18:43] <Colourless> could just be something like take one step towards avatar, if within certain distance intiate conversation, if...
[17:22:56] <wjp> a few steps at a time would probably be better, but that would probably do the trick, yes
[17:23:34] <Colourless> there should also be a timeout counter so that if a certain amount of time ellapses the conversation starts regardless. the original worked like that
[17:23:56] <wjp> I have to go for a while; see you later
[17:23:59] <Colourless> of course, that may seriously break other things
[17:24:00] --- wjp is now known as wjp|away
[17:24:05] <Colourless> cya
[17:24:20] <Colourless> i would leave talk as is
[17:57:17] --> freedman has joined #Exult
[17:57:46] <freedman> Hello!
[17:57:52] <Fingolfin> hi jeff
[17:57:59] * Fingolfin just glances in on chance ;)
[17:58:00] <Colourless> hi
[17:58:43] <freedman> Just read comments about the talk schedule.
[17:59:08] <freedman> It could definitely be improved, but there are a couple problems:
[18:00:07] * Fingolfin whispers to colourless: did you mention usecode in you conversation about talk schedule?
[18:00:18] <freedman> USECODE???
[18:00:38] <freedman> Ahhhhhhh..... please no more! (I'm in 'flee' mode.)
[18:01:12] <freedman> Hmm... guess it was wjp who was talking about changing the 'talk' schedule.
[18:01:12] <Fingolfin> ;)
[18:01:12] <Fingolfin> sorry
[18:01:16] <Fingolfin> yeah
[18:01:28] <Fingolfin> anyway, you wanted to mention a couple of problems?
[18:01:31] <Colourless> actually it was a visitor
[18:01:47] <freedman> Yea, everyone has a complaint:-)
[18:02:58] <freedman> Okay: 1st issue is the start of BG, when the mayor approaches. If talk_schedule takes place too fast, he gets to you before Iolo is done. This was an old problem; not sure if it can still happen.
[18:03:35] <Fingolfin> hmmm
[18:03:45] <Fingolfin> I wonder how original U7 treats this?
[18:03:50] <freedman> 2nd: In SI, the NPC is usually first scheduled to 'bark' a greeting. So the talk-schedule has to delay long enough for it to happen (usually a second or two).
[18:03:54] <Fingolfin> do they have a special case, or are we missing something?
[18:04:23] <freedman> I think it might just be the way things are timed (and which we just guess at).
[18:04:54] --- wjp|away is now known as wjp
[18:05:01] <freedman> The original SI Talk_schedule doesn't always work perfectly either.
[18:05:01] <wjp> hi
[18:05:14] <Fingolfin> hi willem
[18:05:25] <freedman> Hi wjp. Was just explaining what needs to still work if Talk-schedule is changed.
[18:06:34] <Colourless> what I suggest would probably still work
[18:07:11] <freedman> Yes, it should.
[18:08:19] <freedman> But the NPC should get within some min. distance. There's a spot in SI/Moonshade where an NPC in 'Talk_schedule' is inside a building that you pass by.
[18:08:56] <freedman> ...so we may still need to check for a path from NPC->Avatar.
[18:09:37] <Colourless> from playing the original, the talk schedule only made the actor move if the avatar was within a certain distance of the actor. if thte avatar was too far away the actor just stood still
[18:09:38] <ashp> yikes, I started a whole conversation
[18:09:45] <ashp> then got distracted by reversi on yahoo
[18:09:53] <wjp> :-)
[18:09:55] <freedman> :-)
[18:10:33] <freedman> Does he still start the conversation if he's farther away?
[18:10:59] <Colourless> no
[18:11:08] <Colourless> not that I know of
[18:11:20] <freedman> Makes sense.
[18:11:41] <freedman> I'm just not in the mood for breaking things at the moment:-)
[18:11:53] <freedman> It's safer to work on map-editing.
[18:12:00] <wjp> :-)
[18:12:24] <Colourless> :)
[18:12:28] <freedman> BTW: With the shared chunks, memory useage should be quite a bit less.
[18:13:48] <freedman> And we could get it down a lot more by freeing up chunks that haven't been visited for a while. Maybe as an option for lower-memory platforms.
[18:14:37] <wjp> hmm, compile error
[18:15:10] <freedman> Yow... you've all checked in tons of stuff since yesterday.
[18:15:18] <freedman> And only 12 bugs left.
[18:15:32] <Colourless> if only that was true
[18:15:44] <freedman> Okay, 'official' bugs:-)
[18:16:12] <freedman> And I think I'm going to delete the Skara Brae bug, as there's no savegame.
[18:16:20] <wjp> so, who broke gamewin.cc? ;-)
[18:16:26] <Colourless> jeff
[18:16:30] <freedman> Moi?
[18:16:38] <Colourless> yeah
[18:16:48] <freedman> Worked last night.
[18:16:51] <freedman> What's wrong?
[18:16:54] <wjp> it worked 2 hours ago too
[18:16:59] <Colourless> hasn't worked for me for a few days for me
[18:17:16] <freedman> Couldn't compile? Or couldn't run?
[18:17:20] * Colourless hopes we are all talking about the same thing
[18:17:22] <Fingolfin> jeff: tu parle franįaise?
[18:17:35] <freedman> Pas beaucoup.
[18:17:35] <wjp> parles?
[18:17:38] <Colourless> i wasn't able to compile it
[18:17:46] <Colourless> talk
[18:17:53] <wjp> yeah, I know what it means :-)
[18:18:05] <wjp> I was just wondering if there should be an 's' there
[18:18:12] <freedman> Je parle. Tu parles. Vous parlez.
[18:18:37] <Colourless> Tu is informal
[18:19:07] <wjp> yeah, english doesn't have a seperate 'you' and 'you' ;-)
[18:19:18] <Colourless> Thou
[18:19:26] <freedman> I think 'thou' is the informal.
[18:20:37] <wjp> Ryan: did you add a function Gump_button::double_clicked(Game_window*, int, int) ?
[18:20:48] <Colourless> opps, yeah I did
[18:20:52] <wjp> if so, please commit it :-)
[18:20:56] <Colourless> i completely forgot
[18:21:11] <Colourless> can't not yet. just remove the x, y from the line in gamewin
[18:21:27] <wjp> what are you using the coords for, btw?
[18:21:57] <Colourless> for the stats
[18:22:13] <wjp> how?
[18:22:40] <Colourless> i need to tell where the double click has occured so I can open the correct gump up (inventory or stats gump)
[18:22:59] <wjp> nice
[18:23:11] <wjp> face = inventory, bars = stats?
[18:23:16] <Colourless> yeah
[18:23:20] <freedman> Cool
[18:23:23] <wjp> aren't you using the Face_button?
[18:23:31] <Colourless> i am
[18:23:40] <wjp> subclassing?
[18:23:44] <Colourless> yep
[18:23:51] <wjp> ok, that would make sense then :-)
[18:24:22] <wjp> looking forward to it :-)
[18:24:46] <Colourless> :-)
[18:27:51] <Fingolfin> excuse-moi, bien sûr c'est "tu parles", n'est pas "tu parle", mais je pense que vous gens savez que je ne peux pas ecrire ;)
[18:28:35] <Fingolfin> et ma franįais est trčs "rouille"
[18:28:35] <wjp> hmm, 'gens' ?
[18:28:44] <Fingolfin> gens = folks, guys I think
[18:28:59] <Fingolfin> yeah, gens = people, folks
[18:29:03] <wjp> hmm, yeah
[18:29:12] <wjp> I knew that
[18:29:17] <Fingolfin> ah come one ;)
[18:29:21] <freedman> Er, oui
[18:29:32] <wjp> note the past tense 'knew' :-)
[18:29:35] <Fingolfin> I didn't claim I spoke good french, did I ? ;)
[18:29:49] <freedman> Tu peut ecrire.
[18:30:04] <freedman> Or is it 'tu peus'. Sheesh, it's been many years...
[18:30:27] <wjp> it may even be 'peux'
[18:30:35] <wjp> or is that 1st person... hmm
[18:30:39] <Fingolfin> freedman: ah, c'est un mirage ;)
[18:30:46] <Fingolfin> tu peut is right
[18:31:04] <Fingolfin> no it is not, sorry
[18:31:10] <Fingolfin> je peux, tu peux, il peut I think
[18:31:14] <Fingolfin> grmbl
[18:31:18] <Fingolfin> all too long ago ;)
[18:31:20] <freedman> My only French classes were in high school, LONG ago (tres longtemps).
[18:31:26] <Fingolfin> hehe
[18:31:53] <Fingolfin> wjp: btw, are you still playing D2? ;) how is you char proceding on B.Net? ;)
[18:31:57] <freedman> I did read a whole math bood (one of the Bourbouki's) in French once:-)
[18:32:02] <wjp> Fingolfin: I was just about to mention D2 :-)
[18:32:07] <freedman> ^bood^book
[18:32:09] <Fingolfin> hehehehe
[18:32:18] <wjp> Fingolfin: up to lvl 19, reached the Arcane Sanctuary
[18:32:22] <Fingolfin> freedman: "livre" ? ;)
[18:32:32] <Fingolfin> wjp: hey, with only level 19? nice ;)
[18:32:34] <Fingolfin> with your sorc?
[18:32:36] <wjp> freedman: ouch, that must've hurt
[18:32:39] <Fingolfin> no wait
[18:32:49] <Fingolfin> I mixed up arcane sanctuary and chaos sanctuary ;)
[18:32:54] <Fingolfin> but still lvl 19 is fine
[18:32:57] <wjp> not _that_ far :-)
[18:32:58] <freedman> Yes. Actually was pretty easy. French math terms are a lot like English.
[18:33:10] <wjp> freedman: yeah, I guess that's true
[18:33:21] <freedman> On the other hand, I have some French 'Peatnuts' comics that I've never gotten through.
[18:33:36] <Fingolfin> if you want, I have a lvl 20 barb, a level 15 amazon, a lvl 23 necro, a 21 druid and a 43 pala ;)
[18:33:39] <wjp> Fingolfin: got any characters around level 19? I feel like killing Duriel tonight :-)
[18:33:46] <freedman> wjp: Seems like they're written in very basic French.
[18:34:03] <Fingolfin> jeff: hehe I remember when I was young and we were on vacartion in paris and I read a Donald Duck... that is, looked at the pictures ;)
[18:34:13] <Fingolfin> wjp: pick one ;)
[18:34:29] <freedman> But the comics were all slang. Lots of words not in the dictionary.
[18:34:34] <wjp> Fingolfin: Druid sounds like fun
[18:34:54] <wjp> Fingolfin: where in act2/3 is he?
[18:35:01] <Fingolfin> uhm, lemme think
[18:35:30] <wjp> freedman: never read any french comics, I'm afraid
[18:35:52] <Fingolfin> ah I think I got yesterday or so the last two waypoints, by going through some TP left over by other guys... I actually didn't do any quests in act 2 with him, since I always joined games where all were done already :/ but I have the cube, and one part of the staff
[18:36:32] <Fingolfin> jeff: I have to decide to which country/university I go in my third year of university... I thought maybe on in France... I also could go to New Orleans, though ;)
[18:36:36] <wjp> Fingolfin: I've got the cube+amulet, and done the Radament & darkness quest
[18:36:59] <Fingolfin> good... you got the amulet, I the staff... ;)
[18:37:05] <wjp> :-)
[18:37:09] <freedman> Both sound fun. I've never been to New Orleans, but it's supposed to be really nice.
[18:37:22] <wjp> maggot lair is really good for exp. though... :-)
[18:37:42] <Fingolfin> wjp: ;)
[18:37:49] <Fingolfin> wjp: np.. but I think there is a new bug in D2..
[18:38:13] <Fingolfin> wjp: when I get to far away from my creatures (e.g. they get stuck in a labyrinth, like maggot's), then I will get black walls :/
[18:38:21] <Fingolfin> wjp: i.e. I can't play..
[18:38:34] <wjp> Fingolfin: hmm, that's bad
[18:38:36] <Fingolfin> wjp: this sometimes happens anyway, but it seems to go away when I walk back to my creatures
[18:38:43] <Fingolfin> so it is new :(
[18:38:51] <freedman> Fingolfin: Can you go to Japan? That would be quite a change.
[18:40:28] <Fingolfin> jeff: in theory I can go everywhere, but if I don't go to one of the partner exchange universities, it'll be much more epxensice, and much much more work to organize for me
[18:41:06] <freedman> Makes sense to go somewhere on the list then... Anything in the S. Pacific?:-)
[18:42:05] <wjp> Colourless: #define EXULT_FLX_../../EXULT/DATA/VID_SCALING_SHP 53
[18:42:37] <Colourless> ???? what?
[18:42:40] <Fingolfin> actually, most is in the EU, except for two in US and one in Canade (and maybe next year one in Australia). in the EU there is a program called ERASMUS which besides other things means I don't have to pay semester fees - studing in germany is mostly free ;)
[18:43:14] <Colourless> wjp, ok, path is being added, i'll fix it
[18:43:51] <freedman> Australia sounds good. What's the other US site (I assume the 1st is Tulane?)
[18:44:17] <Fingolfin> right, Tulane, how did you know that?
[18:44:31] * Fingolfin is not yet well informed about the US/Canada sites ;)
[18:44:44] <freedman> New Orleans... probably from playing Gabriel Knight 1:-)
[18:45:30] <Fingolfin> ah yeah ;)
[18:45:44] <freedman> (Great game, BTW)
[18:46:03] <Fingolfin> well, then I guess it is only one, it was listed as Tulane and New Orleans, and since i never heard Tulane before... ;) I guess the one writing the list did neither, so he put it as two seperates entries ;)
[18:46:13] <Fingolfin> yeah, I played GK 1 & 2
[18:46:36] <Colourless> wjp, i've commited the fix
[18:46:46] <freedman> GK2 was good too. Actually, so was GK3, except for the (IMO) dismal 3D interface.
[18:47:02] <wjp> Fingolfin: got any online info about the erasmus program? my univ's page only states something like "We're in it"
[18:47:14] <freedman> ...so you know about as much as New Orleans as I do.
[18:47:27] <Fingolfin> wjp: lemme check
[18:47:32] <Fingolfin> freedman: g>
[18:48:07] <freedman> Funny how playing a computer game can make you feel like you've been somewhere...
[18:48:35] <freedman> Anyway, it's about lunch time.
[18:48:48] <wjp> bye
[18:48:55] <freedman> See ya.
[18:48:56] <-- freedman has left IRC (Leaving)
[18:49:12] <wjp> Colourless: ok, thanks. works now
[18:49:55] <wjp> the ' Header for "../../exult/data/bg/../exult_bg.flx"' looks a bit weird, but that's not a problem
[18:50:38] <Colourless> also easily fixed
[18:50:44] <Fingolfin> BTW, here is a list with the base exchange universities I can go to: http://www.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de/Math-Net/Aussen/ausland_4.html
[18:55:27] --> Dominus has joined #Exult
[18:55:33] <Dominus> hi
[18:55:48] <Colourless> hi
[18:55:50] <Dominus> Fingolfin: do you feel like a little more work on the faq.xsl?
[18:55:51] <wjp> hi
[18:55:52] <Fingolfin> lo
[18:55:56] <Fingolfin> ;)
[18:56:14] <Fingolfin> dominus: do you want to know if I feel like it or if I can do it now? ;)
[18:56:23] <Dominus> the latter:-)
[18:56:31] <Fingolfin> dom: shoot, I'll get dinner soon, but maybe I can do something right now ;)
[18:56:52] <Dominus> take a look at the FAQ as is now, look at the changes section
[18:57:01] <Fingolfin> mom
[18:57:12] <Dominus> I wan the ref to look like the index
[18:57:48] <Fingolfin> what do you mean exactly?
[18:58:05] <Fingolfin> you mean the full text should be a link?
[18:58:23] <Fingolfin> like "4.7 Any other improvements/features?" being one big link instead of just hte 4.7 ?
[18:58:27] <Dominus> not just ref/3.4. but ref/3.4. Question
[18:58:28] <wjp> hmm, how about putting the most recent changes at the top?
[18:58:35] <Dominus> right
[18:58:49] <Fingolfin> wjp: good idea I guess ;)
[18:58:50] <Dominus> I did in the xsl:
[18:58:59] <Dominus> <xsl:template match="ref1">
[18:59:00] <Dominus> <a href="#{generate-id(key('faq_ref',@target))}">
[18:59:00] <Dominus> <xsl:value-of select="count(key('faq_ref',@target)/parent::section/preceding-sibling::section)"/>
[18:59:00] <Dominus> <xsl:text>.</xsl:text>
[18:59:00] <Dominus> <xsl:value-of select="count(key('faq_ref',@target)/preceding-sibling::faq)+1"/>
[18:59:00] <Dominus> <xsl:text>. </xsl:text>
[18:59:02] <Dominus> <xsl:value-of select="name(key('faq_ref',@target))"/>
[18:59:08] <Fingolfin> ack wait
[18:59:12] <wjp> or maybe even just keep the last set
[18:59:12] <Dominus> sorry
[18:59:20] <Fingolfin> I can't see much of it in this IRC window ;)
[18:59:36] <Fingolfin> is everything you did in CVS?
[18:59:42] <Dominus> wjp: might be a good idea
[18:59:49] <Dominus> no nothing yet
[18:59:54] <Dominus> I can dcc
[19:00:44] <wjp> Dominus: small typo at the bottom (8.1): Exult Hompage
[19:00:55] <Fingolfin> dom: so the XSL used to generate the online FAQ is not online?
[19:01:25] <Fingolfin> dom: DCC it to me if you want, but now...
[19:01:30] --- Fingolfin is now known as Fingolfin|dinner
[19:01:33] <Dominus> Fingolfin: yes it is, only the ref change I wanted to do is not
[19:02:18] <Dominus> wjp: thx
[19:03:49] <Dominus> Fingolfin: see line 196 for changes
[19:27:21] --> sty has joined #exult
[19:27:30] <sty> ave!
[19:27:41] <wjp> hi
[19:27:54] <Colourless> hi
[19:29:34] --- Fingolfin|dinner is now known as Fingolfin
[19:29:42] <Fingolfin> dom: I see the changes, thanks to diff ;)
[19:29:50] <Fingolfin> now I have to grok them
[19:30:09] <Dominus> grok?
[19:30:22] <Fingolfin> err
[19:30:24] <Fingolfin> understand
[19:30:45] <Fingolfin> (to) grok something ~ (to) understand something, (to) get something
[19:31:12] <Dominus> now I get it :-)
[19:31:19] <Fingolfin> hehe
[19:31:44] <Fingolfin> sooo
[19:32:03] <Fingolfin> this version you DCCed me was used to create the FAQ which is online?
[19:32:23] <Dominus> nope, this one is a test version
[19:32:52] <Dominus> because of the ref1
[19:32:53] <Fingolfin> ahhh OK ;)
[19:32:57] <Fingolfin> that explains a lot ;)
[19:32:59] <Fingolfin> so
[19:33:08] <Fingolfin> what is the problem? it is not doing what you want it to do?
[19:33:48] <Dominus> no this one produces "3.4. faq" instead of "3.4. "Question""
[19:34:38] <Dominus> "3.4. faq" is the link at least
[19:35:43] <Fingolfin> eeek
[19:35:55] <Fingolfin> I get a lot of errors trying to apply Xalan
[19:36:01] <Fingolfin> seems the DTD is not matching the XML..
[19:36:17] <Dominus> ah, i made a dtd for the ref1
[19:36:34] <Fingolfin> wait
[19:36:48] <Fingolfin> the XML I have here doesn't use <ref1> yet
[19:36:54] <Fingolfin> that's not the problem
[19:37:01] <Fingolfin> --- exult_faq.xml -> faq_html.xsl
[19:37:01] <Fingolfin> Parser error: The content of element type "li" must match "(#PCDATA|br|em|extref|Exult|kbd|key|q|ref|strong)*".
[19:37:01] <Fingolfin> Parser error: The content of element type "li" must match "(#PCDATA|br|em|extref|Exult|kbd|key|q|ref|strong)*".
[19:37:02] <Fingolfin> etc.
[19:37:16] <Dominus> just change on of the changes refs to ref1
[19:37:45] <Fingolfin> look, man, I can't translate the XML file at the moment at all, even with the old XSL/XML
[19:38:26] <Dominus> wait I zip the xsl/xml/dtd which builts fine on my xalan
[19:38:47] <Dominus> (which should with the cvs ones)
[19:39:00] <Fingolfin> uhm
[19:39:13] <Fingolfin> is it possible you broke the XML version of the FAQ in CVS?
[19:39:24] <Fingolfin> for me, it has every newline twice
[19:39:31] <Fingolfin> normally, this means somebody did a mistake on checkin
[19:39:43] <Fingolfin> i.e. win line feeds checked in instead of Unix linefeeds
[19:40:35] <Colourless> is that in the file you just got dcc'd from dom?
[19:40:42] <Fingolfin> nope
[19:40:46] <Dominus> the one from a fresh cvs checkout works fine for me
[19:40:48] <Fingolfin> I talk about the CVS .xml file
[19:40:48] <Fingolfin> hrm
[19:40:54] <Fingolfin> maybe there is a problem with my CVS client here, though
[19:41:05] <Fingolfin> dom: well, sure, you checked it in yourself
[19:41:15] <Dominus> should I dcc the files?
[19:41:29] <Fingolfin> dom: but I am on a different OS with different linefeeds. Win, Unix, Mac all are different
[19:41:29] <Fingolfin> dom: ok
[19:41:53] <Fingolfin> wjp: if you are there, could you check out exult_faq.xml for me?
[19:45:00] <Fingolfin> ah well
[19:45:21] <Dominus> this one has the ref1 set on the first changes link
[19:45:23] <Fingolfin> the version you sent me has the same problem: there is a blank line between every line
[19:46:26] <Dominus> ah, yes it has, I thought you wanted it so, cause the first one you sent me had it as well
[19:46:37] <Dominus> in the xml
[19:47:04] <Fingolfin> aaaaargggghhh
[19:47:23] * Dominus cowers and hopes he doesnīt get slapped around
[19:47:24] <Fingolfin> you mean, the first one I sent you had different line endings than you, hence it looked this way???
[19:47:25] <Fingolfin> <sigh>
[19:47:43] * Fingolfin sighs again
[19:48:24] <Dominus> and since there was no problem for me building it, I kept it that way
[19:48:52] <Dominus> guess I should change that...
[19:49:04] <Fingolfin> I just did so
[19:49:19] <Fingolfin> I will send you back all the stuff I changed, then you can check it in later, OK?
[19:49:26] <Fingolfin> (once I am finished I mean)
[19:49:31] <Fingolfin> or I check it in, doesn't matter
[19:49:31] <Dominus> k
[19:49:40] <Dominus> right
[19:49:48] <Colourless> is that a good idea, wont the line endings get screwed up in the transfer?
[19:50:09] <Fingolfin> nah
[19:50:14] <Fingolfin> if you do it right, then not ;)
[19:50:15] <Fingolfin> anyway
[19:50:34] <Fingolfin> you said in the XML you sent me you used ref1?? cause I don't see it being used here...
[19:50:57] <Dominus> <question>- 02 May 2001</question>
[19:51:18] <Dominus> aargh, I sent you the wrong one
[19:51:32] <Dominus> the one from cvs
[19:51:39] <Dominus> got confused
[19:51:58] <Dominus> well use it in theat question on the first ref
[19:52:10] <Dominus> (with the xsl I sent you first)
[19:52:48] <Fingolfin> sure
[19:53:57] <Fingolfin> ehem
[19:54:06] <Fingolfin> dom...
[19:54:10] <Fingolfin> the xsl you sent me...
[19:54:14] <Fingolfin> in the zip...
[19:54:21] <Fingolfin> it doesn't have ref1... ;)
[19:54:28] * Fingolfin takes the first one DCCed alone
[19:54:33] <Dominus> I meant the one before that
[20:04:41] <Dominus> Fingolfin: do you see what I did wrong (in this ref1 aspect at least)
[20:04:44] <Dominus> ?
[20:04:45] <Fingolfin> ok, it works fine now
[20:05:42] <Dominus> let me see please :-)
[20:05:48] <Fingolfin> well, I removed your bad line (using name() which is not correct here, it will just return the name of the element, and since the key refers to a <faq> element this will be "faq"), and inserted the right one ;)
[20:05:49] <Fingolfin> <xsl:apply-templates select="key('faq_ref',@target)/child::question"/>
[20:05:53] <Fingolfin> wait
[20:07:17] <Fingolfin> my changed XML file, and the new XSL file
[20:07:27] <Fingolfin> via DCC
[20:07:41] <Dominus> ok
[20:09:14] <Dominus> ok, thx
[20:10:01] <Dominus> ok, now I can edit the thing, properly
[20:10:43] <Dominus> Fingolfin: what do you think of the changes part? newest changes on top, or only the newest changes?
[20:10:53] <chimera|wookin> hi :)
[20:14:57] <-- wjp has left IRC (farmer.openprojects.net pratchett.openprojects.net)
[20:14:57] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC (farmer.openprojects.net pratchett.openprojects.net)
[20:15:39] <Dominus> chimera|wookin: hi, btw
[20:15:40] <Dominus> :-)
[20:15:51] <chimera|wookin> Dominus: how are you doing?
[20:16:12] <Dominus> not wookin at least :-)
[20:16:41] <chimera|wookin> hehe
[20:16:51] <Dominus> as always my favourite game, harassing the exult team with all kind of stuff
[20:17:15] <chimera|wookin> they appreciate your help hehe
[20:17:47] <Dominus> Fingolfin was so upset that he fled the channel along with wjp :-)
[20:17:57] <chimera|wookin> is that what happened? hehe
[20:18:18] --> wjp has joined #exult
[20:18:18] --> Fingolfin has joined #exult
[20:18:33] <Fingolfin> grmbl
[20:18:47] <Fingolfin> didi I miss anything after "now I can edit" ?
[20:19:02] <Dominus> Fingolfin: what do you think of the changes part? newest changes on top, or only the newest changes?
[20:19:12] <Dominus> that you missed
[20:19:59] <Fingolfin> newest changes should be on top in any case
[20:20:01] <chimera|wookin> Fingolfin!
[20:20:02] <wjp> exultbot's log show a far more interesting piece of conversation :-)
[20:20:14] <Fingolfin> keeping the older changes for a few levels might be useful, too
[20:20:21] <Dominus> oops, I forgot the spy
[20:20:21] <Fingolfin> ?log
[20:20:21] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php3
[20:20:43] <Fingolfin> ;)
[20:20:55] * Fingolfin takes out a thick XML book and wooks chimera with it
[20:21:08] <chimera|wookin> ouch!
[20:22:44] <Fingolfin> muwahahahahaha
[20:25:00] <Dominus> Fingolfin: another question to refs
[20:25:02] <Dominus> :-)
[20:25:15] <Dominus> now I want to be able to ref a section,
[20:25:23] <Dominus> I copied and edited this
[20:25:32] <Dominus> <xsl:template match="ref2">
[20:25:42] <Dominus> <a href="#{generate-id(key('section_ref',@target))}">
[20:25:49] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC (Ping timeout for Fingolfin[pD9E1CE6E.dip.t-dialin.net])
[20:25:57] <Dominus> <xsl:value-of select="count(key('section_ref',@target)/parent::section/preceding-sibling::section)"/>
[20:26:00] <Dominus> <xsl:text>. </xsl:text>
[20:26:06] <Dominus> <xsl:apply-templates select="key('section_ref',@target)/child::title"/>
[20:26:23] <Dominus> now I really chased him away, didnīt I?
[20:26:48] <wjp> nah, he was gone before the paste came through :-)
[20:29:40] <Dominus> And I was just able to do it without him anyway :-)
[20:30:45] * Colourless should be going
[20:30:56] <wjp> g'night
[20:31:02] <Dominus> bye
[20:31:03] <Colourless> night
[20:31:08] <-- Colourless has left IRC (need sleep)
[20:31:29] * wjp tries to figure out when he has to get up tomorrow
[20:31:35] --> Fingolfin has joined #exult
[20:31:52] <Dominus> hi max
[20:32:01] <wjp> long time no see :-)
[20:32:33] <Fingolfin> gmbl
[20:32:42] <wjp> what happened?
[20:32:43] <Fingolfin> my printer is playing weird on my
[20:32:45] <Fingolfin> s/my/me
[20:35:14] <Fingolfin> well
[20:35:14] <Fingolfin> I am not sure
[20:35:18] <Fingolfin> my Epson 740 has no color ink anymore it seems
[20:35:23] <Fingolfin> but I wanted to print a B/W letter
[20:35:58] <Fingolfin> the printer driver waited for some time, then reported me the printer was nto responding - however, I am sure the USB connection is fine, cause some diagnostic tool is in fact listing the printer
[20:36:14] <Fingolfin> now, on my nth attempt, it just freezed the whole system :/
[20:37:25] <Dominus> Fingolfin, what I always wanted to know, how does Exult work on Mac with just one mouse button?
[20:37:40] <Fingolfin> I have two buttons and a mouse wheel ;)
[20:37:52] <Fingolfin> but otherwise, the same as in every game/app that needs a second mouse button:
[20:37:55] <Fingolfin> Cmd-Click
[20:38:03] <Fingolfin> Cmd-key is a bit like the win key on win keyboards
[20:38:04] <Dominus> ahh,
[20:44:38] <Fingolfin> ,?
[20:44:58] <Dominus> nothing, typo
[20:46:56] <wjp> ok, enough semi-useful work for me today... time for some levelling-up ;-)
[20:47:31] <wjp> Fingolfin: are you going to be on BNet tonight?
[20:47:56] <Dominus> have fun with the devil, eh Diablo
[20:48:20] <wjp> :-)
[20:48:23] <wjp> thanks, I think :-)
[20:48:54] <wjp> anyway, I'm off
[20:48:57] <wjp> see you later
[20:49:03] <Fingolfin> hm
[20:49:03] <Fingolfin> wait
[20:49:07] <Fingolfin> now?
[20:49:10] <Fingolfin> on bnet?
[20:49:12] <Fingolfin> sure ;)
[20:49:16] <wjp> :-)
[20:49:30] <wjp> I just need to reboot...
[20:49:47] <Fingolfin> ok ;)
[20:49:51] <sty> 'night
[20:49:54] <sty> bye
[20:49:57] <wjp> bye
[20:50:06] <-- sty has left IRC ()
[20:50:06] <wjp> Fingolfin: I'll be right there...
[20:50:09] <Fingolfin> nobody else here is Diabling?
[20:50:24] <Fingolfin> dominus: keep order here while wjp and me are off ;)
[20:50:31] <wjp> hehe :-)
[20:50:33] --- Fingolfin is now known as Fingolfin|D2
[20:50:33] <Dominus> I will
[20:50:39] <wjp> exultbot: you too ;-)
[20:50:53] <wjp> *gone* :-)
[20:50:54] <Dominus> 7me throws cookie to exultbot
[20:50:55] <-- wjp has left IRC ([x]chat)
[20:51:21] <Fingolfin|D2> dom: keep esp. an eye on chimera|wookin.... I think he is up to something... ;)
[20:55:30] <-- Fingolfin|D2 has left IRC (42)
[20:55:48] * Dominus looks closely on chimera|wookin
[20:55:57] <Dominus> at even
[20:59:10] <chimera|wookin> hey!
[20:59:18] <chimera|wookin> I am just doing my usual programming... hehe
[23:30:15] --> realmz has joined #exult
[23:30:32] <realmz> Hi
[23:30:42] <Dominus> hi
[23:31:07] <realmz> Is Exult 0.93alpha4 stable?
[23:31:36] <Dominus> Iīd say so. Exult is stable normally.
[23:32:01] <Dominus> but if I remember correctly you are running Linux, right?
[23:32:07] <realmz> Yes
[23:32:23] <Dominus> I canīt say much about the Linux port, sorry
[23:32:33] <Dominus> Only general stuff
[23:32:39] <realmz> Hmmm... they do say that RedHat's gcc in 7.0 is broken
[23:32:43] <realmz> I compiled SDL 1.2.0
[23:32:51] <realmz> Exult crashes on start
[23:33:49] <Dominus> hmm, perhaps the two files that Exult generates can help you (stdout.txt and stderr.txt)
[23:34:20] <realmz> Where are those?
[23:34:49] <Dominus> in the Exult directory
[23:35:10] <Dominus> and I hope you set the correct paths
[23:35:32] <Dominus> especially to the flx files
[23:36:01] <realmz> Well the flx files are in the dir
[23:36:06] <realmz> But no txt files
[23:36:32] <realmz> What port have you run?
[23:36:38] <Dominus> Win32
[23:36:55] <realmz> Hmmmmmm....
[23:37:19] <Dominus> so if the flx files are in the same directory like the exe your exult.cfg may be broken
[23:37:24] <realmz> It's possible that only the windows port generates those files
[23:37:38] <Dominus> nope, linux should as well
[23:37:41] <Dominus> AFAIK
[23:37:47] <realmz> The binary is not in the same dir
[23:37:55] <realmz> The binary is in /usr/local/bin
[23:38:03] <realmz> Most binaries are
[23:38:08] <Dominus> so check your exult.cfg for the path settings
[23:38:38] <realmz> Blackgame path?
[23:38:48] <Dominus> data
[23:39:20] <Dominus> data_path should point to the directory where you find
[23:39:28] <Dominus> the flx
[23:39:39] <Dominus> files
[23:40:00] <realmz> That's not part of the generated cfg file... Should I add it?
[23:40:53] <Dominus> maybe download the linux binary as the whole file should come with that
[23:41:05] <Dominus> what flx files do you have?
[23:41:15] <Dominus> http://exult.sourceforge.net/download.shtml, btw
[23:41:43] <realmz> exult.flx exult_bg.flx exult_si.flx midisfx.flx
[23:41:53] <realmz> I installed the RPM
[23:42:15] <Dominus> isnīt there a exult.cfg file with it?
[23:42:33] <realmz> No, Exult generates the file when you run it
[23:42:41] <realmz> It puts it in your home directory
[23:43:10] <Dominus> k, then add <disk>
[23:43:27] <Dominus> <data_path>
[23:43:36] <Dominus> path to the flx files
[23:43:45] <Dominus> </data_path>
[23:44:28] <Dominus> well, I may be totally wrong as I donīt run linux
[23:44:54] <realmz> Well that did set the data pat
[23:44:55] <realmz> path
[23:45:03] <realmz> But it didn't generate the files
[23:45:23] <realmz> Actually Unix Filesystem structure is different than windows
[23:45:35] <Dominus> I know that
[23:46:03] <Dominus> and it still doesnīt run with the right path?
[23:46:29] <realmz> Correct
[23:47:00] <realmz> It receives a fatal signal after creating a new player thread
[23:48:08] <Dominus> well, hate to say that but better wait for some linux guys to show up
[23:48:21] <Dominus> chimera|wookin: do you run linux
[23:48:23] <Dominus> ?
[23:48:50] * Dominus whispers to realmz: sometimes you have to wake up these guys
[23:48:56] <Dominus> :-)
[23:49:16] <realmz> I've never seen him talk
[23:49:32] <Dominus> look into the logs
[23:49:35] <Dominus> ?logs
[23:49:35] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php3
[23:49:50] <Dominus> he spoke "just" before you came
[23:50:22] <realmz> hmmm...
[23:54:44] <realmz> I wonder if I have a bad timidity install
[23:55:29] <Dominus> oh, btw, have you tried disabling audio alltogether in the cfg?
[23:55:51] <realmz> No...
[23:56:08] <Dominus> audo/enabled/no
[23:56:09] <realmz> That's one of the reasons I downloaded 0.93
[23:56:25] <realmz> 0.91 only had some odd crashes
[23:56:29] <Dominus> but this way you can narrow your problem down
[23:56:58] <Dominus> 1. disable audio, if this starts Exult and either BG or SI
[23:57:20] <Dominus> 2. enable audio and disable midi and leave sfx/speech enabled
[23:57:21] <realmz> Didn't work
[23:58:12] <realmz> Nope
[23:58:20] <realmz> Perhaps it's SDL 1.2.0
[23:58:28] <Dominus> ok, then I donīt know what else to do