#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 9 May 2001 (GMT)

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[11:54:01] <CaliMonk> hi
[11:55:41] <CaliMonk> not really an active channel eh
[11:56:37] <CaliMonk> Since exultbot logs this all and you people might check its logs
[11:56:41] <CaliMonk> i'll just talk now
[11:56:46] <CaliMonk> like some schizo
[11:57:06] <CaliMonk> I really like exult and its options alot, it just tends to crash alot for me
[11:57:20] <CaliMonk> since i'm in windows i don't mind this too much, coz it just enhances the windows feeling
[11:57:24] <CaliMonk> the only problem i have is
[11:57:33] <CaliMonk> it crashes every time i want to 'sleep'
[11:57:38] <CaliMonk> which is a problem
[11:57:45] <CaliMonk> you guys happen to know what might be causing that?
[11:57:51] <CaliMonk> it used to work
[11:57:58] <CaliMonk> but now it crashes every time
[11:58:03] <CaliMonk> no matter where i try it
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[12:25:24] <CaliMonk> email me at calimonk@axenet.org if you have a solution
[12:25:28] <CaliMonk> i'll be back
[12:25:29] <CaliMonk> l8r
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[13:19:39] <Nadir> hi all
[13:19:44] <Colourless> hi
[13:32:45] <Nadir> oops, gotta go
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[13:36:10] <CaliMonk> hi
[13:36:19] <CaliMonk> could you help me out? :)
[13:36:30] <Colourless> hu
[13:36:34] <CaliMonk> i did a new install of ultima (Bg + SI) and exult
[13:36:37] <CaliMonk> but still
[13:36:38] <Colourless> hi i mean :)
[13:36:39] <CaliMonk> when i try to sleep
[13:36:45] <CaliMonk> it crashes
[13:36:54] <CaliMonk> the voice talks "pleasent dreams etc"
[13:37:02] <CaliMonk> en then when the music finally stops
[13:37:05] <CaliMonk> nothing happens
[13:37:10] <CaliMonk> just black screen
[13:37:12] <Colourless> we are trying to fix that problem, but we don't know what is causing it
[13:37:19] <CaliMonk> so it is known?
[13:37:23] <CaliMonk> its strange
[13:37:28] <CaliMonk> because it wasn't happening before
[13:37:35] <Colourless> yeah
[13:37:37] <CaliMonk> so i just thought i'd do a clean install of all
[13:37:40] <CaliMonk> which i did
[13:37:44] <CaliMonk> but now i still happens
[13:37:49] <CaliMonk> pretty irritating
[13:38:04] <Colourless> yeah. we don't know why it's occuring
[13:38:23] <CaliMonk> hm
[13:38:39] <CaliMonk> could it be the number of hours you try to sleep?
[13:38:48] <CaliMonk> nah wait i slept all diffrent kind of hours
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[13:39:53] <CaliMonk> its strange coz i did a complete clean reinstall
[13:41:16] <CaliMonk> it also doesn
[13:41:18] <CaliMonk> 't
[13:41:22] <CaliMonk> remember the screen res i set
[13:41:57] <Colourless> are you trying to use the ingame keys?
[13:42:18] <CaliMonk> hm?
[13:42:25] <CaliMonk> like, p, k etc?
[13:42:37] <Colourless> no, for setting the screen res
[13:42:40] <CaliMonk> yea
[13:42:50] <Colourless> ok, it doesn't save that
[13:42:54] <CaliMonk> 532x314
[13:42:55] <CaliMonk> or soemthing
[13:42:58] <CaliMonk> ok
[13:43:02] <CaliMonk> so i need to put it in the conf
[13:43:17] <Colourless> yeah, you have to do that at the moment
[13:44:28] <CaliMonk> k
[13:45:00] <CaliMonk> would be nice to set the paths in the setup screen though ;)
[13:45:20] <CaliMonk> i noticed btw, that the windows version doesn't have that 'luxious' save screen
[13:45:28] <CaliMonk> where you can have unlimited save games etc
[13:45:31] <CaliMonk> new version?
[13:45:43] <Colourless> it does.
[13:45:48] <CaliMonk> uhm
[13:45:50] <CaliMonk> not here heh
[13:46:02] <Colourless> are you using a modified key bind file?
[13:46:03] <CaliMonk> 0.92 alpha3
[13:46:06] <CaliMonk> no
[13:46:07] <CaliMonk> pe
[13:46:09] <CaliMonk> nope
[13:46:10] <CaliMonk> even
[13:46:35] <Colourless> Are you using a snapshot or the latest official release?
[13:47:10] <CaliMonk> nope
[13:47:13] <CaliMonk> btw
[13:47:17] <CaliMonk> i just noticed something new :)
[13:47:22] <CaliMonk> i set the screen res in the conf
[13:47:29] <CaliMonk> but now it runs pretty slow
[13:47:31] <Colourless> nope to which?
[13:47:40] <CaliMonk> 512x384
[13:48:09] <CaliMonk> but i need the latest snapshot then?
[13:48:13] <CaliMonk> how would i install that one
[13:48:17] <CaliMonk> just overwrite?
[13:48:22] <Colourless> yeah
[13:48:25] <CaliMonk> k
[13:48:32] <CaliMonk> i'll do that then
[13:49:12] <CaliMonk> ah i see what i did wrong
[13:49:15] <CaliMonk> scale was still at 2
[13:49:34] <Colourless> that would be pretty slow :)
[13:49:47] <CaliMonk> yup :P
[13:49:57] <CaliMonk> i really like this engine though :)
[13:50:05] <CaliMonk> crashes occasionaly
[13:50:06] <CaliMonk> but still
[13:50:17] <CaliMonk> great improvement
[13:50:35] <CaliMonk> Windows 9x/ME/NT/2000 binary snapshot (09.05.2001 Early PM) (889KB)
[13:50:37] <CaliMonk> that one right?
[13:51:03] <Colourless> sounds about right
[13:51:56] <CaliMonk> so did you guys like get the source of ultima or something?
[13:52:52] <Colourless> nope.
[13:53:15] <Colourless> We had (along with help of others) reverse engineered ultima 7
[13:53:21] <CaliMonk> hmm how do you actualy start to 'recode' over an excisting program then heh
[13:53:22] <CaliMonk> ah ic
[13:53:46] <CaliMonk> how do you go about reverse engineering something
[13:53:48] <CaliMonk> i mean
[13:53:57] <CaliMonk> you don't have c++ decompilers or anything hehe
[13:54:15] <Colourless> hard work :)
[13:54:15] <CaliMonk> and it was only dos before
[13:54:16] <CaliMonk> oh wait
[13:54:22] <CaliMonk> yea it was dos heh
[13:54:25] <CaliMonk> Colourless
[13:54:30] <CaliMonk> what program would one use then
[13:54:42] <CaliMonk> ultima was coded in c right?
[13:54:45] <Colourless> Well, I don't know how much of it was done
[13:55:29] <CaliMonk> i only know how to reverse engineer something with like ASM
[13:55:39] <CaliMonk> but i can't imagine one getting any logic in that
[13:56:21] <Colourless> Well, a large amount of Ultima is based around USECODE which is a custom virtual machine that runs the game. I have no idea how people managed to work out what was going on there.
[13:56:36] <CaliMonk> heh
[13:56:42] <CaliMonk> nice going though :)
[13:56:57] <CaliMonk> lets test this screen
[13:57:01] <CaliMonk> lemme see if sleep works now
[13:57:11] <Colourless> probably not :(
[13:58:01] <CaliMonk> save works
[13:59:59] <CaliMonk> worked!
[14:00:00] <CaliMonk> :)
[14:00:03] <CaliMonk> lol
[14:00:17] <CaliMonk> i have no idea why it works now all of a sudden though
[14:00:29] <CaliMonk> but i should take advantage of it heh
[14:00:36] <CaliMonk> they haven's slept for 4 days lol
[14:01:06] <CaliMonk> worked a second time as well
[14:01:23] <Colourless> cool :)
[14:07:53] <CaliMonk> third time as wel heh
[14:08:00] <CaliMonk> good :)
[14:18:57] <CaliMonk> okey this might be a bug
[14:19:02] <CaliMonk> but when i make food
[14:19:06] <CaliMonk> (by magic)
[14:19:08] <CaliMonk> and eat it
[14:19:10] <CaliMonk> some folks leave heh
[14:19:26] <Colourless> yeah, that's a known bug as well :)
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[14:28:16] <wjp> hi
[14:28:29] <CaliMonk> hi
[14:28:31] <wjp> casema? au :-)
[14:28:36] <CaliMonk> zeker :P
[14:28:37] <Colourless> hi
[14:34:43] * wjp reads logs
[14:35:14] <wjp> sleeping bug went away with latest snapshot? good :-)
[14:37:29] <CaliMonk> well
[14:37:31] <CaliMonk> i dunno for sure
[14:37:34] <CaliMonk> but it seems to work now
[14:37:47] <CaliMonk> i really hate the bug that whatever food i find i can't eat
[14:37:49] <CaliMonk> coz they'll leave
[14:38:01] <CaliMonk> even if i make it by magic heh
[14:38:31] <wjp> yeah, stealing detection is still a bit buggy
[14:38:49] <wjp> you can bypass it by enabling map-editor mode, btw. (ctrl-alt-m)
[14:39:34] <wjp> umm, wait... let me check
[14:41:03] <wjp> hmm, people don't complain if I move food I created
[14:41:17] <wjp> only if I eat it
[14:41:49] <CaliMonk> yea
[14:42:03] <CaliMonk> or if you butcher like a band of fighters
[14:42:05] <CaliMonk> and eat their food
[14:45:07] <CaliMonk> also irritating
[14:45:15] <CaliMonk> they some times keep following your arrow
[14:45:20] <CaliMonk> even though your not pressing a button
[14:45:31] <wjp> just for a few steps?
[14:45:45] <Colourless> i've seen them do it more
[14:45:50] <CaliMonk> yea
[14:56:12] <wjp> hmm, food is created 'okay_to_move' but not 'okay_to_take' it seems
[14:57:25] <CaliMonk> hm
[14:57:31] <CaliMonk> where is that damn woodchucker
[15:09:11] <CaliMonk> bbiab
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[16:58:09] <freedman> Hi WJP, Coulourless
[16:58:14] <Colourless> hi
[16:58:17] <wjp> hi Jeff
[16:58:40] <freedman> Sounds like the sleep bug might be fixed???
[16:58:58] <wjp> yeah :-)
[16:59:03] <wjp> maybe it was only in alpha3?
[16:59:25] <freedman> No, someone reported it in snapshots a couple days ago.
[16:59:39] <freedman> I wonder who fixed it. Not me.
[16:59:50] <wjp> me neither
[16:59:59] <Colourless> not me
[17:00:18] <freedman> Maybe it's our self-fixing software design:-)
[17:01:14] <wjp> I wonder if stealing will fix itself too :-)
[17:01:29] <Colourless> heh
[17:01:55] <wjp> why isn't the okay-to-take flag of food saved btw?
[17:01:59] <freedman> Not sure what to do about that one. Why doesn't 'create food' set the right flag?
[17:02:36] <freedman> That flag only seems to get saved for containers, as far as we know.
[17:03:00] <Colourless> yeah.
[17:03:03] <wjp> seems? umm.. didn't we write the savegame code ourselves? :-)
[17:03:07] <freedman> This (stealing) has been a constant PITA.
[17:03:27] <Colourless> The evidence is in SI with the usecode eggs in the monitor armourer
[17:03:39] <Colourless> that detect stealing
[17:04:02] <freedman> That uses eggs to detect stealing?
[17:04:11] <Colourless> yeah
[17:04:32] <freedman> SI seems to be a bit cleaner in its design.
[17:04:32] <wjp> note to self: do not double click those eggs ;-)
[17:04:45] <Colourless> the eggs are placed on top of the items, and when the items are taken, the egg moves and is activated
[17:04:53] <freedman> We have a few bugs there. One time, the AVatar attacked himself:-)
[17:05:29] <Colourless> SI had a few more months design time
[17:05:59] <freedman> And they got to refine the code already written for BG.
[17:06:43] <wjp> btw, you can take okay_to_move items by dragging them onto yourself
[17:06:52] <wjp> even if they're not okay_to_take
[17:07:03] <freedman> Yes. And then the okay_to_take flag gets set for them.
[17:07:10] <wjp> yup
[17:07:31] <freedman> I'll have to try this in the original tonight.
[17:08:08] <freedman> I got a little farther in SilverSeed last night. Got the 2nd orb from the maze to the north.
[17:08:16] <wjp> can you check flags in the original?
[17:08:30] <freedman> The only bug (after fixing the 'missing lever') was that you can't kill the mummies.
[17:08:50] <freedman> wjp: Not sure.
[17:09:08] <Colourless> maybe in BG...
[17:10:04] <wjp> "inspect" maybe?
[17:10:08] <freedman> I'll try the 'create food' spell in the original, and see if it's okay to eat it immediately.
[17:10:17] <wjp> freedman: I'm almost sure it is
[17:10:29] <Colourless> yeah. inspect is different in BG to SI
[17:10:48] <freedman> wjp: On my vers., inspect just shows shape/frame and position.
[17:11:05] <freedman> In SI, it only works on eggs.
[17:12:57] <Colourless> gives location, shape, frame, qual and something called REF
[17:13:21] <freedman> Maybe a unique # for each object?
[17:14:02] <freedman> Perhaps okay_to_move => okay_to_take
[17:14:40] <freedman> I may end up implementing that.
[17:14:43] <wjp> the other way around sounds more logical... but judging by the flags set in create food this one makes more sense
[17:15:07] <wjp> or maybe okay_to_move == okay_to_use
[17:15:25] <freedman> Yes
[17:15:44] <Colourless> no idea what REF is. It can be negetive
[17:15:48] <freedman> It's probably better to err on the liberal side... although someone will complain either way:-)
[17:16:24] <freedman> REF for NPC's is the -(npc #), I think.
[17:16:35] <wjp> maybe we can ask U7's lead programmer?
[17:16:53] <wjp> maybe he remembers something about the whole stealing system
[17:16:54] <freedman> He didn't respond to my last email:-(
[17:17:09] <wjp> :-(
[17:18:26] <freedman> Hey, anyone played 'Wasteland'?
[17:18:37] <wjp> what's that?
[17:18:38] <Colourless> can't say I have
[17:18:57] <freedman> And RPG from about 10 years ago.
[17:19:32] <freedman> It came in the "Ultimate RPG Archives" that I bought to get the Ultima Underworlds.
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[17:56:21] <wjp|away> bye
[17:56:30] <wjp|away> (back in an hour or so)
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[20:35:44] <telemacho> good evening
[20:35:59] <Colourless> hi
[20:36:18] <telemacho> so how are things ;)
[20:36:46] <Colourless> ok :)
[20:37:13] <wjp> hi
[20:37:15] <telemacho> when can I expect to play SI in Exult ;) I dont dare start until Im fairly sure it can be finished
[20:37:42] <Colourless> i don't think anyone would even consider answering that yet
[20:38:10] <telemacho> is it you who has done the new savegame stuff ?
[20:38:33] <Colourless> mostly me, wjp helped as well
[20:38:49] <telemacho> hi wjp btw - did you get my key patches ?
[20:38:59] <wjp> key patches?
[20:39:22] <telemacho> ok, is it possible to disable the scaling for the savegame screen.. it's very fuzzy to read the small text as it is now
[20:39:47] <telemacho> yes, I made some changes to allow opening of any party-members inventory with keys 1 to 8
[20:40:05] <telemacho> I hated that you always had to open the avatars first and with Exult being open source and all ;)
[20:40:06] <Colourless> scaling is a global thing. it's not possible to disable it for part of the screen
[20:40:36] <telemacho> what about the whole screen then ?
[20:40:40] <wjp> telemacho: how/when did you send that?
[20:40:59] <telemacho> I sent it to jeff some days ago by email and he said he would give it to you
[20:41:42] <wjp> telemacho: hmm, did you add lines like "1 inventory 1" ?
[20:41:48] <wjp> (I didn't receive it yet, btw)
[20:42:09] <Colourless> telemacho: it's possible, but would require a screen change, would be messy to impliment, and it begs the question, why not do it manually yourself
[20:42:23] <telemacho> yes, that was what I did... but I also fixed a small bug to make it work and made code to force the game in gump mode.
[20:42:49] <telemacho> otherwise the inventory handler would start the conversation instead when it activates the npc
[20:43:16] <wjp> ah, yes... I see
[20:43:36] <telemacho> color : It's just that I like the scaling, but it's impossible to read the stats of the party.. all blurred out
[20:44:25] <wjp> telemacho: do you still have that email/patch somewhere?
[20:44:26] <telemacho> the bug was that I changed a >= to > .. where it tests if argument is greater than number of persons in party
[20:44:41] <telemacho> sure, in my exult source
[20:44:50] <telemacho> want me to email it over ?
[20:44:55] <wjp> telemacho: party members are numbered 0 to count-1 right?
[20:44:58] <wjp> telemacho: please
[20:45:03] <telemacho> 0 is the avatar
[20:45:20] <wjp> it doesn't count the avatar in get_party_count()?
[20:45:26] <telemacho> but with him and iolo the result of "number of people in party" is 1
[20:45:27] <Colourless> no it doesn't
[20:45:46] <wjp> hmm, ah well
[20:47:13] <telemacho> btw, it took me ages to figure that key system out ;) You gotta admit it's kinda cryptic ;)
[20:47:45] <wjp> hmm, it's not _that_ hard... once you know what to change where :-)
[20:48:04] <wjp> which unfortunately amounts to about 4 different things :-)
[20:48:22] <Colourless> i ask, why is it so complex?
[20:48:37] <telemacho> yes, once I figured that the 3 or 4 different arrays matched index-wise ;)
[20:48:50] <wjp> well, it needs several translation tables. It could probably be done a bit easier though :-)
[20:49:11] <Colourless> i myself have written similar with only 1 table
[20:49:19] <telemacho> isn't it a SDL thing ?
[20:49:38] <Colourless> takes a function pointer, a function name string and a set of flags
[20:50:24] <Colourless> no, the code is ours
[20:50:29] <wjp> sound good :-)
[20:50:43] <wjp> I should have some spare time this weekend...
[20:51:20] <wjp> telemacho: got the email, thanks
[20:51:50] <telemacho> no problem, im just happy if it helps anyone else besides myself ;)
[20:52:31] <telemacho> I noticed another funny thing btw, you can attack things like a tree for example in BG
[20:52:35] <wjp> telemacho: I don't think you had to create all new handlers, btw. the 'inventory' action already has a party member argument
[20:52:58] <telemacho> yes, I wondered that myself..
[20:53:36] <telemacho> but I had to add the bindings right ? So I figured the bindings must match the handlers - like the rest of the system..
[20:53:45] <Colourless> hmm, the method exult uses for key bindings is really silly. It uses two arrays, when only 1 is actually needed.
[20:53:59] <wjp> Colourless: yeah, it is :/
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[20:55:02] <Colourless> it's not something that i'm going to touch though
[20:55:13] <wjp> Colourless: I'll prettify it this weekend
[20:55:25] <wjp> telemacho: you mean to get the right help text?
[20:55:29] <chimera|wookin> w j p ! ! !
[20:55:45] <wjp> c h i m e r a | w o o k i n ! ! !
[20:55:54] <wjp> (ugh, couldn't you pick a shorter nick ;-) )
[20:56:02] <Colourless> i'll be off to bed now.
[20:56:07] <wjp> g'night
[20:56:22] <telemacho> yes, that is in the ExultActions array... I thought that should match the actions... *shrug*
[20:56:26] <-- Colourless has left IRC (g'night.... it's 6:25 am, and the sun is comming up)
[20:56:50] <wjp> you can say (in the keyfile): "1 inventory 1 # Show inventory for char. 1"
[20:56:54] <chimera|wookin> bed? it's 3 pm for crying out loud
[20:57:04] <wjp> umm, "1 inventory 0 ..." I mean
[20:57:48] <wjp> we really need docs for that keybindings file :/
[20:58:11] <telemacho> yes ;)
[20:58:27] <telemacho> and the tool for building the flx ;)
[20:58:38] <wjp> windows?
[20:59:04] <telemacho> yes, mostly
[20:59:42] <wjp> I think Travis has a build of the tools on his page
[20:59:50] <wjp> (including expack)
[21:00:12] <telemacho> oh, building them was easy.. I just thought the -c meant create
[21:00:33] <wjp> oh, you mean docs for expack... /me hits head against wall
[21:01:33] <wjp> ok, I applied your patch. Works great! thanks!
[21:01:39] <telemacho> np ;)
[21:05:08] <telemacho> well.. been fun chatting... see you around another time ;)
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[21:09:47] <wjp> time for me to go to bed too
[21:09:49] <wjp> bye
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