#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 9 May 2002 (GMT)

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[00:36:07] --> Kirben has joined #exult
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[04:46:49] <sbx-dot-html> Hi.
[04:47:57] <Darke> Hi.
[04:52:34] <-- matto has left IRC ("This feeling.. inside me. Finally found my life, I'm finally free. No longer torn in two. Living my own life by learning f)
[04:53:57] * sbx-dot-html put Dominus' sound packs on the web but isn't sure if Dominus wants them distributed.
[06:10:42] * sbx-dot-html will return.
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[07:22:13] <Soul|BOX> omgoodness
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[07:47:05] <royalsexy> hehe
[07:47:21] * royalsexy wonders what spawned THAT topic
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[08:35:17] <sbx-dot-html> wb
[08:35:25] <royalsexy> heya sbx-dot-html :)
[08:35:44] <royalsexy> sorry i didn't see you join before i quit :)
[08:36:20] <sbx-dot-html> hey
[08:36:20] <sbx-dot-html> look what they did to my old site :P
[08:36:20] <sbx-dot-html> sbx.vr9.com
[08:37:12] <royalsexy> http://sbx.vr9.com
[08:37:13] <royalsexy> ?
[08:37:25] <royalsexy> awww
[08:37:26] <sbx-dot-html> it is gone
[08:37:30] <royalsexy> that sucks mate
[08:37:56] * royalsexy hands you a cookie
[08:39:22] * sbx-dot-html files the cookie away for future use.
[08:39:22] <sbx-dot-html> thanks
[08:40:27] * sbx-dot-html is working on a new page.
[08:43:14] <royalsexy> hehe don't leave the cookie too long
[08:43:18] <royalsexy> it'll go stale!
[08:43:21] <royalsexy> :D
[08:47:03] * sbx-dot-html will offer it for download on his new site.
[08:48:56] <royalsexy> hehe
[08:48:59] <royalsexy> good idea
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[12:09:39] <wjp> hi
[12:12:47] <sbx-dot-html> hi
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[12:35:56] <wjp> hi
[12:38:23] --- Darke|afk is now known as Darke
[12:38:30] * Darke bows. Hello.
[12:40:06] * sbx-dot-html rehi's Darke.
[12:40:11] <sexyben> Darke :)
[12:40:23] <sexyben> and wjp too ;)
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[12:52:38] * Darke was about to wonder what all these sexy people are doing on #exult.
[12:52:49] * Darke thinks that came out wrong.
[12:54:17] <wjp> only a bit :-)
[12:59:17] <Darke> Bah. You should have said something like: "Becuase we're _programmers_! Programmers are inherently sexy. It's on out genes or something." *grin*
[13:00:42] <wjp> now if only girls would see it that way :-)
[13:01:42] * sbx-dot-html cries.
[13:04:09] <Darke> Think Positive! *grin*
[13:04:46] * sbx-dot-html takes a bite out of his cookie.
[13:07:30] <royalsexy> lol
[13:08:05] <royalsexy> hows the whole "exult" thing going guys?
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[13:10:41] <Fingolfin> hi
[13:10:44] <Colourless> hi
[13:10:46] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Fingolfin
[13:11:08] <royalsexy> heya
[13:11:12] <wjp> hi
[13:12:20] <Fingolfin> OK, I have to rant a bit about code I have to work with.... ugh... written by some former collegue at work... consider cpVersion, a char*, and now this code:
[13:12:23] <Fingolfin> const char* cpZLibVersion = zlibVersion();
[13:12:24] <Fingolfin> Copy into Pointer
[13:12:24] <Fingolfin> memcpy(cpVersion,&cpZLibVersion,sizeof(cpZLibVersion));
[13:12:48] <Colourless> hmm
[13:12:49] <sbx-dot-html> hello both of you
[13:12:50] <Colourless> :-)
[13:12:53] <wjp> he does _what_?!
[13:13:03] <Colourless> he has no clue :-)
[13:13:10] <Fingolfin> "Copy Into Pointer" was a source comments, // got stripped =)
[13:13:21] <Fingolfin> well, once I used a strcpy, it actually worked =)
[13:13:22] <wjp> isn't there something called 'casting' that does that?
[13:13:24] <Fingolfin> seems nobody ever trested this
[13:13:37] <Fingolfin> well, he watned to copy the string
[13:13:50] <wjp> he's not doing that :-)
[13:14:03] <Fingolfin> but that is a bug you detect a runtime easily at least - much worse is the next thing I found
[13:14:22] <Colourless> he's doing *cpVersion = spZLibVersion;
[13:14:24] <Fingolfin> note that thsi code was written on Windows, but is meant to work on other systems (like MacOS 9 & X) as well
[13:14:25] <Darke> Hi Colourless, Fingolfin.
[13:14:29] <Fingolfin> Colourless: exact
[13:14:43] <Fingolfin> fread(mg_archive,sizeof(TZLib_Archive),sizeof(TZLib_Archive),gzArchiveFile);
[13:14:56] <Colourless> omg
[13:14:58] <Fingolfin> and other similiar fread/fwrite calls with structs
[13:15:02] <Fingolfin> well
[13:15:04] <Fingolfin> I just wrote a mail to my bsos
[13:15:05] <Darke> Oooh. Fun. *grin*
[13:15:13] <Fingolfin> that our files are not going to be portable after all with this code =)
[13:15:31] <sbx-dot-html> there are man pages for these things
[13:15:49] <Colourless> well technically, it should be portable, since it should work the same on all platforms, and that is not work :-)
[13:16:05] <wjp> interesting way of looking at it :-)
[13:16:30] <Fingolfin> do I have to mention that we use *Xerces* as our XML parser? Because it has DOM, they say...
[13:16:37] <Fingolfin> Colourless: <g>
[13:16:54] <Colourless> so, was he an ex microsoft programmer? you know, with all those buffer overruns and stuff? :-)
[13:17:04] <Fingolfin> <g>
[13:17:05] <Fingolfin> no idea
[13:17:18] <sbx-dot-html> what is a good non-Java XML parser?
[13:17:28] <Fingolfin> xerces isn't bad, I think
[13:17:28] <Fingolfin> but
[13:17:35] <Fingolfin> for that task, for these tiny simple XML files
[13:17:37] <Colourless> exult's configuration.... err wait, you wanted a good one :-)
[13:17:42] <Fingolfin> it's like using MS Word to write your source code
[13:17:53] <Fingolfin> expat is fast, lean, simple, pure C, and small
[13:17:58] <Fingolfin> or use libxml2
[13:18:14] <Fingolfin> use xerces in C++/Java, if you do need full DOM and some very exotic things
[13:18:18] <Darke> Bad Colourless. You shouldn't make fun of conf/, you'll hurt it's feelings. *grin*
[13:18:22] <sbx-dot-html> :))
[13:22:21] * sbx-dot-html will return when he can become sbx.xml.
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[13:23:46] <Fingolfin> hm
[13:23:46] <Fingolfin> https://sourceforge.net/projects/tinyxml/
[13:23:49] <Fingolfin> sounds intersting
[13:25:09] <Fingolfin> but no unicode support it seems
[13:27:45] * Darke thinks that looks rather good.
[13:29:23] <Fingolfin> but no Unicode sadly kills it for our purpose
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[13:29:37] <Fingolfin> because then we can't parse every XML document
[13:29:53] <Fingolfin> it's a minimal requirment for any proper XML parser
[13:30:05] <Colourless> why did jeff have to change drag and drop... fixing it in win32 is going to require more work than i previously thought
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[13:30:49] <wjp> hi
[13:31:03] <Colourless> hi
[13:31:33] <Fingolfin> hi
[13:32:57] <Nadir> hi
[13:33:24] <Nadir> is this The Game ?
[13:33:36] <Darke> Hi.
[13:33:59] <Colourless> The Game is forbidden
[13:34:00] <Fingolfin> what game is this?
[13:34:10] * Colourless has no idea
[13:34:18] <Fingolfin> it is? why, you think it bad?
[13:34:27] <Nadir> the game is good
[13:34:32] <Colourless> anything called The Game is too close to The Game played by chuckles :-)
[13:34:34] <Fingolfin> oh one with no color, do you not like the game?
[13:34:50] <Fingolfin> <g> for real?
[13:34:52] <Nadir> Fingolfin: you just lost
[13:34:58] <Nadir> (color)
[13:35:09] <Fingolfin> well, I play the extended 5 letter version =)
[13:35:35] <Colourless> you lost: extended, letter, version
[13:35:35] <Colourless> ;-)
[13:37:43] <Fingolfin> <g>
[13:44:41] <Nadir> Colourless: have you managed to get the MSVC debugging NO_SDL_PARACHUTE build ?
[13:45:15] <Colourless> it's builds
[13:46:05] <Nadir> what?
[13:46:36] <Colourless> exult builds just fine for me. effectively it is ready
[13:47:10] <Colourless> i'm just a little concerned at why npc reading seems to be screwing up
[13:48:42] <Colourless> of course it's not exactly repeatable, and i've no idea what is going on
[13:49:08] <Nadir> memory corruption ?
[13:49:17] <Colourless> nope
[13:49:19] <Colourless> can't be
[13:49:27] <Colourless> start a new game.
[13:49:30] <Nadir> WHy would it be random then
[13:49:34] <Colourless> quit right away
[13:49:52] <Nadir> Uninitialized memory ?
[13:49:56] <Colourless> start exult, choose Journey Onwards and things were just screwing up 'sometimes'
[13:49:59] <Nadir> Wheredoes it beak
[13:50:07] <Nadir> (file, lineno)
[13:51:11] <Colourless> trace went through the NPC constructor, to Actor::move(), to ShapeID::cache_shape() where it was trying to get the shape info for shape -1
[13:51:46] <Colourless> of course previous there were numerous errors about null shapes
[13:53:05] <Colourless> there was no obvious reason what the cause was because it was a freshly started game, which worked moments before
[13:53:52] <Colourless> after changing no code it now seems to be working
[14:22:13] <royalsexy> well fixed Colourless ;)
[14:22:47] <Nadir> debugging without hands
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[21:26:43] * Darke hmms. His machine is a bit flakey. Back soon, I hope.
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[21:39:42] * Darke ReHi's.
[21:43:54] <Colourless> hi
[21:44:01] <Colourless> time for to go
[21:44:09] <Colourless> for me to go even
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[23:08:53] <vividos> hi
[23:09:29] <wjp> hi
[23:10:08] <vividos> weren't you the one who wanted to try to compile uwadv on linux?
[23:10:44] <vividos> you know, the ultima underworld 1 remake project
[23:12:03] * wjp nods
[23:12:19] <wjp> hm, I think I forgot :/
[23:12:32] <vividos> yesterday I checked in some linux make files, I hope they work :)
[23:13:05] * wjp does a cvs update
[23:13:17] <vividos> of the uwadv project?
[23:13:49] <wjp> yeah
[23:14:39] <vividos> I never got to the linking stage, because I didn't install the SDL .a files :)
[23:16:06] <wjp> hm, I need to run configure from within the linux/ subdir?
[23:16:55] <vividos> yes, but first you need to run autogen.sh to build the configure file :) I didn't check it in yet
[23:16:58] <wjp> autogen.sh doesn't run, btw
[23:17:19] <wjp> automake complains about missing required files (NEWS, README, AUTHORS, ChangeLog)
[23:17:32] <wjp> also about not finding depcomp and config.h.in
[23:17:54] <wjp> and autoheader complains about HAVE_FMOD_H not being covered by /usr/share/autoconf/acconfig.h
[23:18:12] <vividos> hmm the missing required files is only a warning, right? the autoheader stuff can be ignored, too
[23:18:38] <vividos> did it create a configure script?
[23:19:14] <wjp> well, yes, but warnings aren't nice :-)
[23:19:40] <vividos> of course :)
[23:20:26] <vividos> but it should function, fmod isn't required, and automake could be called with --foreign
[23:22:38] <wjp> the depcomp problem breaks the make, btw
[23:24:56] <vividos> hmm ... it worked for me, I updated to fairly new auto* tools. do you have depcomp on your box? maybe copying to the linux/ folder may help
[23:25:53] <wjp> yeah, I have plenty of depcomp's lying around
[23:26:04] <vividos> where do they normally belong?
[23:26:13] <vividos> in the configure.in's folder?
[23:28:41] <vividos> hmm, just tried it on a sourceforge compile farm box, and it doesn't complain about depcomp
[23:28:42] <wjp> one of the tools is supposed to add them
[23:29:08] <wjp> try adding --add-missing to the automake line
[23:29:56] <vividos> did it copy depcomp for you? I tried without success
[23:38:02] <vividos> I'm using automake 1.4 still, depcomp seems to be introduced with 1.5. I added a line to the autogen.sh. any more errors?
[23:38:30] <wjp> missing SDL_opengl.h, but that's a problem on my end :-)
[23:39:01] <wjp> with the --add-missing added to automake it configures/makes properly, btw, except for that missing include
[23:39:09] * wjp should recompile SDL
[23:39:53] * vividos should to that, too
[23:42:16] <vividos> do you know about automake supporting source files in subdirectories in newer versions?
[23:42:53] <vividos> like in exult, I had to build a convenient archive for each subdir in my project
[23:43:51] <wjp> automake's directory philosophy is seriously broken
[23:44:00] <vividos> yes :)
[23:44:53] <wjp> the article at http://www.pcug.org.au/~millerp/rmch/recu-make-cons-harm.html is quite nice
[23:45:10] <vividos> yes, I read it today :)
[23:45:13] <wjp> :-)
[23:48:09] <vividos> there's a automake 1.6.1 out, maybe this one can handle source files in subdirs
[23:49:31] <wjp> I don't have much faith in automake changing anytime soon, but we can hope :-)
[23:52:49] <vividos> :)
[23:53:13] <wjp> the pentagram build system tries to handle things slightly saner
[23:53:36] <wjp> it's not entirely bugfree yet, but the idea is quite good
[23:55:56] * vividos looks into pentagram's cvs
[23:56:18] <wjp> (it's something Fingolfin wrote, btw)
[23:57:14] <vividos> that genrules.pl?
[23:58:13] <wjp> the entire system
[23:59:10] <wjp> bootstrap, common.mk, genrules.pl, Makefile, */module.mk