#gemrb@irc.freenode.net logs for 10 Aug 2014 (GMT)

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[19:47:39] <brada> are we sure about our combat rolls?
[19:51:38] <brada> well something seems painfully broken
[19:51:56] <brada> i’ve started a new game in BG2 and have only fists equipped and i can hit every time :p
[19:52:04] <brada> except for critical miss
[19:52:29] <brada> and no im not a monk :p
[19:54:13] <brada> at first i thought smething was just wrong with my roll + mod = X print out...
[19:54:19] <brada> but it really seems broken
[19:55:30] <fuzzie> fists are not our friends
[19:55:34] <fuzzie> so it's quite possible it got broken
[19:55:52] <fuzzie> there should be loads of info dumped on the console about hits?
[19:56:24] <fuzzie> if you're going to give us nice combat roll feedback please also do the SoA full-style ones :p
[19:57:44] <brada> well im going off BG2 (with TOB) for how im implementing it so…
[19:57:58] <fuzzie> ToB nobbled it
[19:58:02] <brada> oh
[19:58:12] <brada> whats the diff?
[19:58:14] <fuzzie> but it was an ini option anyway
[19:58:37] <fuzzie> trying to find sshot, not succeeding
[19:59:22] <fuzzie> http://anduin.net/~knan/bg2/bg2soa-extracombatinfo.png
[19:59:38] <brada> holy crap!
[19:59:45] <brada> why would you want that ha ha
[19:59:53] <fuzzie> *so* useful for debugging :P
[20:00:05] <brada> true!
[20:00:16] <fuzzie> I grumbled about it on g3
[20:00:24] <fuzzie> and taimon wrote a horrible hack for re-enabling it
[20:01:58] <brada> fuzzie: https://github.com/bradallred/gemrb/commit/de89ebf9ea731d97471547017ff25eb81b2bf57a
[20:02:00] <Pepelka13> Actor: Implement (very broken) attack roll logging · de89ebf · bradallred/gemrb · GitHub
[20:02:01] <Pepelka13> »gemrb - Game Engine Made with preRendered Background«
[20:02:11] <brada> maybe you can tell me if that is just wrong
[20:04:32] <fuzzie> I wonder if taimon's hack was the inspiration for ToBEx
[20:05:08] <fuzzie> brada: yes, it's way too early
[20:05:38] <brada> help?
[20:06:29] <fuzzie> maybe I misunderstand
[20:06:40] <fuzzie> but isn't that before even ModifyWeaponDamage gets called?
[20:06:56] <brada> yes but what does weapon damage hae to do with hitting?
[20:07:34] <fuzzie> I think the original treats damage==0 as miss?
[20:08:05] <fuzzie> I'm not sure
[20:08:14] <fuzzie> I mean, what does the original print if an attack is resisted?
[20:08:21] <fuzzie> a successful roll followed by a resist?
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[20:09:17] <brada> im not sure, but we seem to print out hit and miss in the console based off sucess == true
[20:09:26] <fuzzie> yeah, because it's our crazy debug stuff
[20:09:33] <fuzzie> the console should then also tell you what got resisted etc
[20:09:36] <fuzzie> if it's working right :-p
[20:09:42] <brada> it does
[20:10:39] <brada> but im just interested in attack rolls…
[20:11:10] <fuzzie> hm
[20:11:26] <fuzzie> yes, I mean, I'm just saying that our console is maybe not reliable
[20:12:28] <fuzzie> I assume original bg2 doesn't let you constantly hit everything with fist?
[20:12:36] <brada> no
[20:14:12] <fuzzie> but the screenshot above seems to bundle a whole lot of stuff into the roll
[20:15:22] <brada> its not just fists either
[20:15:38] <brada> i just equipped a quarterstaff and got a hit with a roll of 4…
[20:15:39] <fuzzie> but are you doing the damage in gemrb also?
[20:16:00] <brada> yes
[20:16:03] <fuzzie> but yes I would just assume your code is ok for now and wait for lynx
[20:16:22] <fuzzie> if you think it's broken and not just your feedback code
[20:16:25] <brada> i dont even see where we handle all that other stuff
[20:16:38] <fuzzie> in the damage code, so much later
[20:17:00] <fuzzie> or, well, resistances etc when stuff is queued onto the fxqueue
[20:17:10] <brada> i thought logically we would calculate tohit then damage…
[20:17:16] <fuzzie> yes
[20:17:46] <fuzzie> just the code there is clearly mixing it a bit
[20:17:54] <brada> but yeah i can constantly beat poor imoen to death with out ever missing except for a roll of 1
[20:18:00] <fuzzie> ouch
[20:18:04] <brada> and in the original i hardly hit her at all
[20:18:08] <brada> and this is a new game
[20:18:16] <brada> so not some save with borked data
[20:19:57] <brada> it is a newgame created with gemrb, however...
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[20:47:18] <lynxlynxlynx> waaait, i'm not done reading the backlog
[20:52:42] <lynxlynxlynx> ouch, the tutorial fists, again
[20:57:50] <brada> tutorial?
[20:57:58] <brada> happens with quarterstaff too
[20:57:58] <lynxlynxlynx> i created a new fighter, first attempt was a miss, then mostly hits, then a msis
[20:58:11] <lynxlynxlynx> looks just like bad stats in our favour
[20:58:43] <brada> so what is the “roll” variable?
[20:58:59] <brada> because if thats what i thought it is i shouldnt be getting hits when it is 4
[20:59:05] <lynxlynxlynx> i'd need to look it up
[20:59:21] <lynxlynxlynx> thac0 of 14 vs ac of 6
[21:00:25] <lynxlynxlynx> isn't that ~ to hit of 20 against ac 6? ie almost always, matching
[21:01:08] <lynxlynxlynx> tutorial - fists do stunning damage, not crushing, so you can't kill anyone with them
[21:01:26] <brada> im going off the to hit printout form the original. if i roll a 4 it is a miss
[21:01:32] <lynxlynxlynx> because it would be a shame if rats killed you in bg1 and iwd
[21:02:16] <lynxlynxlynx> well, we don't know if the feedback matches the calc
[21:02:27] <brada> ok
[21:02:34] <lynxlynxlynx> but i made a mistake too, that would be a tohit of 8, so 12/20 chance of hitting
[21:03:29] <brada> i dont see why the feedback wouldnt just be natural roll + mods = total
[21:11:27] <lynxlynxlynx> that's what ours should be, sure
[21:11:57] <lynxlynxlynx> there's so many stats and things that play into this, that i wouldn't be surprised if the original ignored some in the feedback
[21:12:24] <brada> sure, but still the first number should be the natural roll in both right?
[21:12:43] <lynxlynxlynx> sure
[21:12:44] <brada> and natural < 10 is a miss in original
[21:12:57] <brada> in gemrb i hit with everything ive seen except for 1
[21:12:58] <lynxlynxlynx> maybe in this case
[21:14:52] <brada> and i jsut got a 2 and its also a hit
[21:15:09] <brada> so i hit with everything except a crit miss
[21:15:51] <lynxlynxlynx> so tell me about your char
[21:16:41] <brada> mage str 13 dex 12 thaco 18
[21:17:19] <brada> against imoen from beginning of BG2
[21:17:47] <lynxlynxlynx> is this a new game?
[21:17:53] <lynxlynxlynx> our roll is luck-adjusted
[21:18:12] <lynxlynxlynx> there's no other modification
[21:18:18] <brada> ill start another new game. maybe my savees are failing to overwrite this old quick save
[21:21:05] <lynxlynxlynx> i doubt that
[21:21:48] <lynxlynxlynx> intro imoen is super doped up, but nothing that should affect this
[21:23:00] <brada> it seems when i quicksave it creates a new quicksave instead of overwriting the old one
[21:24:09] <brada> so yeah i guess i had loaded the old quicksave this time
[21:25:54] <brada> oh wow original wont even load this save...
[21:26:04] <brada> so guess i cant compare… wtf?
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[21:28:19] <fuzzie> this kind of thing is where the extra feedback in original is helpful
[21:28:32] <fuzzie> (I assume tobex will do it too)
[21:35:42] <lynxlynxlynx> just load the save that you had before and check your luck
[21:36:07] <lynxlynxlynx> i can't imagine having it borked at the start of the game, but that's the onlly mod to the roll we have
[21:36:22] <lynxlynxlynx> gps(IE_LUCK) in the console
[21:36:37] <lynxlynxlynx> pc selected, of course
[21:40:08] <brada> it outputs 0 in the console
[21:40:35] <lynxlynxlynx> ok
[21:40:54] <lynxlynxlynx> and you're saying the mods and difficulty match up?
[21:41:03] <lynxlynxlynx> in this to-hit calc, i mean
[21:41:34] <brada> hmmm i didnt check difficulty
[21:41:37] <lynxlynxlynx> the easiest difficulty also gives you +6 luck, but we don't have that in gemrb
[21:42:32] <brada> well gemrb is set to a *higher* difficulty :/
[21:43:14] <lynxlynxlynx> no, i mean defense/tohit, the thing you compare your roll+mod against
[21:43:49] <lynxlynxlynx> there's an odd 4 mod for fighting without weapons iirc
[21:44:12] <lynxlynxlynx> game difficulty has no influence on hit in gemrb
[21:44:21] <brada> im not comparing the mods at all right now
[21:44:29] <brada> looking at just the base rolll
[21:44:39] <lynxlynxlynx> huh
[21:44:48] <lynxlynxlynx> why does that make sense=
[21:45:29] <brada> i didnt think the mods would chage arbitrarily?
[21:45:58] <brada> i would think the same attack against the same target with the same base roll should produce the same outcome
[21:46:03] <brada> am i wrong?
[21:46:30] <lynxlynxlynx> you are right that they are probably the same between runs, but maybe they're not the same between gemrb:original
[21:46:33] <lynxlynxlynx> same for the defense
[21:47:11] <brada> isnt that a problem?
[21:48:21] <lynxlynxlynx> perhaps
[21:48:34] <lynxlynxlynx> but we practically ruled out the base roll to be the problem
[21:48:53] <brada> and if this luck is fine then surely my hitting on a roll of anything > 1 is not right
[21:48:55] <lynxlynxlynx> the only thing that i can think of is that the improved random generator is buggy for you
[21:49:07] <lynxlynxlynx> i can't reproduce your result here
[21:49:09] <brada> except im getting diffrent values
[21:49:13] <brada> they just all are hits
[21:49:46] <brada> unless there is something besides luck that could have gotten messed u[
[21:49:53] <lynxlynxlynx> so do check the mods and defense
[21:50:12] <lynxlynxlynx> it's a simple inequality at that point
[21:51:10] <lynxlynxlynx> managed to get 4 misses in a row here
[21:51:44] <lynxlynxlynx> more hits before, but i could easily see it tending to 12/20
[21:52:58] <lynxlynxlynx> and we don't know enough about what the original prints anyway - maybe its roll is already against thac0 (though what to do when it's negative?)
[21:53:23] <lynxlynxlynx> the base one, without real effects
[21:53:46] <brada> i cant imagine it woudl print anything other than the base roll. that makes no sense and is unhelpful :)
[21:54:07] <lynxlynxlynx> but according to your thac0 of 18, you are too lucky either way
[21:54:09] <brada> what would the point of displaying a modified roll be?
[21:54:30] <lynxlynxlynx> you don't need to manually incalculate proficiency bonuses?
[21:54:35] <brada> defense = 6 and tohit = 18 btw
[21:55:18] <brada> but i have other things to do now anyway
[21:55:48] <lynxlynxlynx> so you're saying that 2+6 > 18?
[21:56:14] <lynxlynxlynx> yeah, time to go for me too
[21:56:56] <lynxlynxlynx> something is odd on your end for sure
[22:08:06] <brada> heh yes, parenthesees around both sides of the > ;)
[22:11:31] <brada> tho why is it a > and not a >= ? shouldnt roll + mod == tohit also be a hit?
[22:30:00] <lynxlynxlynx> don't remember
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