#gemrb@irc.freenode.net logs for 11 Dec 2013 (GMT)

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[00:34:47] <Seniorita> [wiki] pst_bugs - [Sound] noted a quirk regarding npc theme music http://www.gemrb.org/wiki/doku.php?id=pst_bugs&rev=1386721954&do=diff
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[01:59:38] <Seniorita> [wiki] quest:pst:learntheart - more investigation of broken 'become a mage' quest http://www.gemrb.org/wiki/doku.php?id=quest:pst:learntheart&rev=1386727028&do=diff
[02:16:40] <brada> I can't wait to get some free time to work on gem again
[02:16:58] <brada> i see so many things that can be tremendously improved
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[03:54:10] <brada> so we have a few classes implementing an implicit reference counting interface (palette, sprite, etc)
[03:54:43] <brada> I also notice there is a CRTP interface called Held
[03:55:16] <brada> which uses the same interface explicitly and implements the methods for it
[03:55:36] <brada> is there a reason Palette and Sprite etc dont inherit from this?
[03:56:15] <brada> oh
[03:56:16] <brada> i see
[03:56:32] <brada> something about slicing i guess
[03:56:45] <brada> forgive my ignorance on the subject
[04:07:22] <brada> i didn't think slicing applied to pointers
[04:07:59] <brada> im probably missing something obvious wjp or fuzzie will point out to me :p
[04:09:47] <brada> well that and i gues this not is talking about the Holder class not the Held class ;)
[04:10:02] <brada> so i guess that reraises my original question :D
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[10:29:33] <edheldil> berenm: are you here?
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[14:30:37] <chiv> HRMPH. Dmebbeth.dlg has a stat check trigger that checks for intelligence over '13.' . With a full stop. Complete wild goose chase over a typo in the original game.
[14:33:37] <chiv> Fixing the dialog file means you can properly become a mage in game without hacking, but do we override the original file or change the core to check for random full stops in dialog checks?
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[14:35:42] <edheldil> chiv: it was possible to become mage in the original, was not it?
[14:35:47] <edheldil> Hi, chiv
[14:36:09] <edheldil> though I might have an already fixpacked version
[14:43:34] <chiv> oh yes, it definitely works in the original
[14:44:21] <chiv> i just patched the file myself, so its not in any fix pack i installed
[14:44:49] <chiv> and I played as a mage in my test run, since it was the most likely to break
[14:48:05] <chiv> I should elaborate: I mean I played the original side by side with gemrb, original first, and then gemrb to find out what doesn't work
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[14:49:32] <chiv> so my changing of classes only happened in torment.exe
[14:50:13] <Llelan> Can GemRB run the "Baldur's Gate II - SoA Demo" available from FilePlanet?
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[14:51:44] <chiv> as far as I am aware, yes?
[14:52:11] <lynxlynxlynx> yep
[14:52:54] <chiv> I think the full game is cheap as chips on gog.com by the way
[14:52:59] <Llelan> It is crashing on me with a blue area where it should show the scene. (on windows 7) The log file ends with [Unknown]: Cannot find data\AREA060A.bif... Resource unavailable. [ResourceManager/ERROR]: Couldn't find 'ar0603.wed'. [Unknown]: [AREImporter]: No Tile Map Available.
[14:53:12] <Llelan> Character creation runs just fine.
[14:53:35] <Llelan> The game and gemrb paths are correct.
[14:55:12] <Llelan> There is no AREA060A.bif file anywhere in the game directories.
[14:56:23] <edheldil> Llelan: you have probably paths configured wrong
[14:57:37] <edheldil> you have to have data/ folder inside your <GamePath> and in it the data files
[14:57:57] <edheldil> that file can actually be called AREA060A.cbf
[14:58:15] <Llelan> Game and GemRB paths are correct. The data folder is in the game folder.
[14:59:27] <Llelan> I just discovered that there is now an AREA060A in the <game>/cache/data folder. Did not exist before.
[14:59:43] <Llelan> AREA060A.bif that is.
[15:00:56] <Llelan> There are no *.cbf files in the game directory.
[15:01:56] <edheldil> does it run now? Does Cache patch point to <game>/cache?
[15:02:02] <edheldil> path
[15:04:22] <chiv> could you put your config on http://pastebin.com/ ?
[15:04:26] <Seniorita> Pastebin.com - #1 paste tool since 2002!
[15:04:27] <Seniorita> ┬╗Pastebin.com is the number one paste tool since 2002. Pastebin is a website where you can store text online for a set period of time.┬ź
[15:05:41] <Llelan> Isn't the cfg CachePath a folder that should be in the GemRB folder and not the game cache folder?
[15:08:22] <Llelan> cfg file available at "http://pastebin.com/D8d46Knv"
[15:08:52] <chiv> I'm not sure it matters where the cache path goes, but traditionally the original game unpacks loads of stuff into its own folder
[15:10:22] <Llelan> When I change CachePath to the game cache folder, it crashes with [Unknown]: **contains another dir** [Core/ERROR]: Cache path C:\Program Files (x86)\Black Isle\BGII - SoA Demo\cache doesn't exist, not a folder or contains alien files!
[15:10:45] <Llelan> It seems the CachePath should not be in the game folder and should be empty.
[15:13:33] <chiv> It's not a certainty, I can't check since I don't have windows past XP, but it might be better to install the game to a non-system directory (ie not in program files)
[15:14:34] <chiv> I've heard somewhere that older games cause nothing but trouble with newer windows
[15:15:33] <chiv> because of write permissions etc...
[15:17:38] <Llelan> The demo itself runs just fine. It's only when I try to use GenRB with the game data that I get this crash.
[15:18:09] <Llelan> I'll copy the game data and see what happens.
[15:18:29] <chiv> it's just a stab in the dark, but it might be that the game is trying to write somewhere it isnt allowed to
[15:20:55] <chiv> I've always had my games and files etc on a whole separate partition because I don't trust windows to tie its own shoelaces... which is why I can't be more specific as to my reasoning, sorry...
[15:22:54] <edheldil> Llelan: post the log from the game to pastebin as well and possibly the recursive content of your GamePath too
[15:23:23] <Llelan> I copied the entire game folder to a different folder, set the cfg to that new game folder, and got the same result. Both with a saved game and a new character.
[15:23:25] <Llelan> k
[15:24:17] <chiv> well, I will try the bg2demo myself and see if I can reproduce it
[15:24:50] <edheldil> I see you have Cache2 in your config, not Cache ...
[15:26:21] <Llelan> Log file posted at "http://pastebin.com/tQv6DA5J".
[15:27:08] <chiv> "Note: Fileplanet is no longer being updated and is in the process of being archived".... /me dances on grave
[15:27:20] <Llelan> "CachePath=.\Cache2\" is the default in the cfg file. That folder is created in the GemRB folder. That part seems to work.
[15:32:21] <lynxlynxlynx> that's fine
[15:32:41] <lynxlynxlynx> it's there by us for easing some silly installs
[15:34:10] <chiv> 45% downloaded, I have a hunch already
[15:35:59] <Llelan> And your hunch is?
[15:38:46] <chiv> well, it may be nothing, but the original game used an elaborate rube-goldberg device scheme for deciding where to find the data on one of its 50 billion cd's, and the only difference between mine and your cfg is I have all the cd paths set
[15:39:01] <chiv> of course it's the demo, so I can't tell you until I've downloaded it
[15:39:55] <Llelan> There are no CD# folders in the demo folder.
[15:40:19] <chiv> indeed, but cd#1 is the default game folder
[15:44:15] <edheldil> you could try to point CD2 to GamePath
[15:44:19] <edheldil> CD1
[15:45:02] <edheldil> [ResourceManager/WARNING]: Invalid path given: /usr/share/fonts/TTF (CustomFonts)
[15:45:44] <edheldil> [KEYImporter/ERROR]: Cannot find data\CREAnim.bif... <--- you have your paths wrong
[15:47:03] <Llelan> The paths are not wrong. There is no "CREAnim.bif" file in the game "data" folder. There is a "CREAnim1.bif" file.
[15:47:38] <edheldil> so please post what is in the GamePath
[15:47:56] <edheldil> and don't put the link to quotes, please :)
[15:48:55] <lynxlynxlynx> huh, how did you get that?
[15:49:21] <Llelan> I tried setting CD1 to the game path. No joy.
[15:49:38] <Llelan> Please elaborate what you want posted?
[15:49:55] <lynxlynxlynx> demo still runs here and i can confirm the filename is different
[15:50:41] <Llelan> @lynxlynxlynx: The demo runs with GenRB for you?
[15:50:43] <lynxlynxlynx> i only have gamepath set
[15:50:54] <lynxlynxlynx> yep
[15:51:02] <Llelan> What OS?
[15:51:14] <lynxlynxlynx> linux, but it doesn't matter
[15:51:43] <chiv> an installshield installer inside a self extracting wise installer inside a zip file. I hate you fileplanet.
[15:51:55] <Llelan> lol
[15:51:57] <lynxlynxlynx> the error edheldil copied out is insignificant
[15:52:13] <Llelan> So how does my cfg differ?
[15:53:19] <chiv> i also have creanim1.big
[15:53:24] <chiv> *bif
[15:53:43] <lynxlynxlynx> [Unknown]: Cannot find data\AREA060A.bif... Resource unavailable.
[15:54:09] <lynxlynxlynx> i don't know, this is a pure demo install?
[15:54:35] <Llelan> The same that chiv just downloaded.
[15:55:03] <Llelan> The demo itself runs just fine.
[15:55:15] <lynxlynxlynx> well, does that file exist or not?
[15:55:35] <lynxlynxlynx> i guess that's a yes
[15:56:13] <Llelan> AREA060A.bif does not exists. I presumed that it is extracted from something like Areas.bif.
[15:57:03] <lynxlynxlynx> i have it as a separate file
[15:57:12] <Llelan> Where?
[15:57:17] <lynxlynxlynx> data
[15:57:35] <lynxlynxlynx> no point in putting bifs into bifs
[15:58:15] <Llelan> Ah. Not in my demo installation. There must be a difference between the demo that GemRB was coded for and the current one.
[15:58:26] <edheldil> lynxlynxlynx: which error? the font one or the data one?
[15:59:10] <Llelan> Is there another source for this demo that matches your installation?
[15:59:28] <lynxlynxlynx> both of them
[16:00:32] <edheldil> the data one is just the last one from a long list of missing files
[16:00:48] <lynxlynxlynx> we have a link on the site, but it's for google and the first hit is fileplanet
[16:01:06] <lynxlynxlynx> yeah, but that's ok
[16:01:19] <Llelan> FilePlanet is where I got the demo.
[16:01:20] <edheldil> dangerous
[16:02:14] <edheldil> Llelan: could you post the recursive list of your GamePath directory, so we can check what is and what is not there?
[16:02:38] <lynxlynxlynx> i don't know where mine is from
[16:06:14] <Llelan> @edheldil: kk
[16:09:26] <edheldil> so what is important there? The missing ar0603.wed close to the end and subsequent no tile map?
[16:11:53] <Llelan> Game file list at pastebin.com/RZzij8Yw
[16:12:32] <Llelan> http://pastebin.com/RZzij8Yw
[16:12:33] <Seniorita> "BGII - SoA Demo" game files - Pastebin.com
[16:12:52] <chiv> the majority of missing area bifs from that log seem to be non demo areas anyway, eg ar1200 = windspear hills
[16:14:55] <chiv> but I used nearinfinity on the demo, ar0603.wed exists
[16:15:09] <Llelan> Sorry for the headache guys. I was just trying to follow what little I found on the Wikki on how to run and demonstrate GemRB. <grin>
[16:15:56] <Llelan> chiv: Did it run with GemRB for you, or crash?
[16:15:58] <chiv> what the hell, I just found a cd2 folder in a completely different place to where i installed it
[16:16:23] <chiv> still working on the gemrb side of it
[16:16:46] <chiv> anyway, it contains the area060a.bif
[16:17:20] <Llelan> Where did you find the cd2?
[16:17:33] <chiv> the stuid 3 part demo installer unpacks itself to program files
[16:17:49] <chiv> then runs the installshield part which you can install somewhere else
[16:18:35] <chiv> the important part is you need to find where it unpacked the cd2 folder and add that to the paths
[16:18:43] <chiv> mine is in c:
[16:19:06] <Llelan> Ah, found it. <program files>/Baldur's Gate 2 Demo
[16:19:07] <chiv> argh! c:\program files\baldur's gate 2 demo\cd 2
[16:19:36] <chiv> switching between us and uk keyboard layouts every 30 seconds is brain melting...
[16:21:04] <chiv> hopefully that is the solution, cos I have to head out for half hour
[16:21:22] <edheldil> the directory listing looks sane to my eyes
[16:21:48] <edheldil> ah, nice
[16:23:27] <Llelan> That's the ticket. When I copied the movies and data files over from the CD2 unzipped folder to the game folder, GemRB loads and runs a saved game just fine.
[16:23:40] <Llelan> Broken installation process.
[16:25:25] <edheldil> I wonder, if we should not have this in FAQ
[16:25:29] <chiv> well, thats good luck then. dont forget the game is only 10 bucks on gog.com, for a decent installer without any patching worries that's not bad
[16:26:56] <Llelan> Maybe the GemRB wiki site ought to provide a preserved copy of the demo with a working installation so people can see GemRB working.
[16:27:09] <Llelan> Thank you very much guys!
[16:28:50] <Llelan> I have two other questions: 1. Does GemRB work with "Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition"? 2. Is there an overview document describing the data file hierarchy GemRB uses? What I've found so far is just a vast sea of detailed information with no guiding documents.
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[16:32:23] <edheldil> Llelan: it does not, as far as I know
[16:32:59] <edheldil> I doubt we could distribute the demo due to licensing, but I have not read the license
[16:34:29] <edheldil> what you mean with data hierarchy? Some documentation for the datafiles, useful for modding is on http://iesdp.gibberlings3.net
[16:34:30] <Seniorita> IESDP Index
[16:35:13] <lynxlynxlynx> chitin.key is the backbone and references all the other files
[16:37:01] <Llelan> No BGEE? Bummer. The demo license only restricts any commercial use and not non-commercial re-distribution. The IESDP is that vast sea of details with no guidance I spoke of.
[16:37:27] <Llelan> I ask as a developer so I can create data sets GenRB will run.
[16:37:31] <lynxlynxlynx> well can you be more speficic on what you're looking for?
[16:37:32] <edheldil> then what lynx said :)
[16:37:57] <lynxlynxlynx> there is no how-to-start docs yet, besides the little blurb on the wiki
[16:38:05] <Llelan> Thx lynx. A backbone is an excellent start.
[16:38:08] <lynxlynxlynx> our demo dataset is in its infancy too
[16:38:19] <lynxlynxlynx> it's just a file index file
[16:38:49] <Llelan> Are there any tools to browse the data files?
[16:38:50] <edheldil> generally: chitin.key is a resource to file mapping directory; dialog.tlk contaisn most of the text strings.
[16:39:25] <edheldil> NearInfinity, dltcep, iesh
[16:40:07] <Llelan> Thx edheldil. Any other starting points I'm missing?
[16:41:16] <lynxlynxlynx> dltcep > nearinfinity
[16:41:33] <edheldil> game is a +- collection of areas (ARE, WED), containing creatures (CRE) and infopoints. Creatures have loot (ITM) but defend it with spells (SPL)
[16:42:31] <edheldil> static background images are done with MOS files, animations with BAM files
[16:43:30] <edheldil> game logic is partially in 2DA tables, partially in BCS scripts. The scripts use constants from IDS files
[16:45:21] <edheldil> important concept is RESREF, which is a max 8 characters long key in CHITIN.KEY, denoting a resource, and a STRREF, which is a key in DIALOG.TLK
[16:45:35] <edheldil> denoting a string
[16:45:41] <edheldil> or text
[16:46:10] <Llelan> <taking copious notes>
[16:46:51] <edheldil> ah, and creatures use DLG dialogues to talk and ask questions - these are finite state machine automatons, basically. Or oriented graphs
[16:49:45] <Llelan> Are there any plans to adapt GemRB to BGEE and BG2EE?
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[16:50:45] <edheldil> gui is done with CHU files, these are rather underdeveloped list of windows and their controls/widgets
[16:53:13] <edheldil> in gemrb, we implement most of the gui in python, and fixing the gui was a traditional ebntry point for prospective gemrb developers
[16:54:41] <edheldil> Llelan: Not at the moment, I think. Maybe sometimes
[16:55:10] <chiv> It would be cool for one reason - all the cool translations being worked on
[16:55:39] <chiv> I just played it in German, almost every voice sample was re-recorded
[16:57:20] <Llelan> Thank you all very much. That's exactly what I needed to get started. I'll go play and prod for a bit.
[16:58:04] <chiv> oh yeah, and included 1pp sprites, bugfixes, tob rules for bg1 etc...
[16:58:37] <edheldil> 1pp?
[16:58:55] <chiv> the avatar and spell effect sprite patch by erephine
[17:00:15] <chiv> eg: square tower shields, flaming swords, non-bearded dwarven ladies, non sucky cloudkill sprites
[17:02:09] <chiv> I'm sure I mentioned it before, all made by one extremely dedicated possibly obsessive fan
[17:03:05] <edheldil> and that's in bgee/bg2ee?
[17:03:10] <edheldil> I have not played it
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[17:06:33] <chiv> yes they included most of it
[17:06:58] <edheldil> sounds nice
[17:07:28] <chiv> bgee (bg1) is actually really nicely polished, despite criticism that it didn't do enough
[17:07:43] <edheldil> Just yesterday I have noticed that there are avatars and effects using alpha in ps:t and they look bad :/
[17:07:46] <edheldil> in gemrb
[17:07:50] <chiv> I haven't played 2 yet, i won't bother until they finish the language patches
[17:08:22] <chiv> yeah most of the spell effects look pretty rough...
[17:16:58] <lynxlynxlynx> we support some stuff from bgee, but there wasn't as much interest as anticipated
[17:17:32] <lynxlynxlynx> most of the stuff we support is there, since they used some of our solutions
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[17:22:26] <chiv> I think it will probably be a good long term plan, I would ditch my bg1 installation if gemrb supported bgee
[17:28:17] <brada> hello chiv
[17:28:30] <chiv> hi
[17:28:37] <brada> support for BGEE will come in time
[17:28:56] <chiv> oh im not agitating for it, don't get me wrong
[17:29:04] <brada> this semester ends next weeks and after that ive got a whole lot of planned gemrb stuff :D
[17:29:18] <chiv> well that sounds awesome
[17:29:20] <lynxlynxlynx> :)
[17:29:24] <brada> incidentally none of it is bgee related ha ha
[17:29:51] <brada> but there are some strings/font things that will make things much cleaner
[17:29:51] <lynxlynxlynx> it's overrated anyway
[17:29:59] <brada> and more efficient
[17:30:32] <brada> and fix the annoying hack that clears paths for timestop/hold
[17:31:24] <brada> hopefully fuzzie will be around then so i can pick her brain
[17:32:13] <fuzzie> hi.
[17:32:44] <fuzzie> when? :p
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[17:35:24] <brada> fuzzie: next week wednesday
[17:35:59] <brada> or thereabouts
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[17:39:14] <chiv> hopefully I can zone in on the source of the worst of the pst problems too
[17:40:31] <fuzzie> did we discuss the idea of running astyle on the codebase and unifying variable names and so forth?
[17:40:37] <fuzzie> I mean, unifying variable name styles
[17:42:04] <brada> i dont recall such a discussion
[17:42:43] <Seniorita> [wiki] quest:pst:learntheart - note the actual source of mebbeth's quest problem http://www.gemrb.org/wiki/doku.php?id=quest:pst:learntheart&rev=1386783443&do=diff
[17:42:50] <fuzzie> would that be a bad idea?
[17:44:30] <brada> i dont see why it would be, but did we ever decide on a convention?
[17:44:47] <fuzzie> well I can firmly say I don't care as long as there is one
[17:46:02] <brada> yeah it would be nice :)
[17:46:20] <brada> nobody will complain if you just do it and then tell us the convention
[17:47:27] <fuzzie> all variable names must be in Dutch with the vowels removed?
[17:49:27] <brada> well that backfired on me...
[17:50:13] <fuzzie> maybe we should re-do the dialog trigger parsing a bit
[17:50:20] <fuzzie> I already hacked around some other issues
[17:50:40] <fuzzie> so clearly we're doing it completely wrong
[17:55:28] <chiv> i don't think so - there is literally a full stop where it shouldnt be (if you are referring to what I just posted)
[17:56:08] <fuzzie> but it works in original?
[17:56:19] <chiv> yeah
[17:56:23] <fuzzie> that's what I mean
[17:56:37] <fuzzie> there are quite a number of incorrectly-written triggers, especially in pst
[17:57:09] <chiv> sorry, I was using a relative interpretation of 'wrong', since it's clear the original was wrong and they just hacked around it
[17:57:30] <fuzzie> so 'wrong' is when it doesn't work :)
[17:58:47] <chiv> yes - i actually thought it very strange that something so basic was going wrong, so I checked the dlg file on a hunch
[17:59:45] <chiv> but I don't even want to attempt to fix it, because nobody would like that...
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[18:25:11] <Seniorita> [wiki] pst_bugs - [Inventory] scratch out inventory count/encumbrance label issues http://www.gemrb.org/wiki/doku.php?id=pst_bugs&rev=1386786258&do=diff
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[19:01:29] <Seniorita> [wiki] pst_bugs - make a note of the conversable item behaviour in torment.exe http://www.gemrb.org/wiki/doku.php?id=pst_bugs&rev=1386788288&do=diff
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[19:19:38] <Seniorita> [wiki] pst_bugs - [Gameplay] fighter training now works. yay! http://www.gemrb.org/wiki/doku.php?id=pst_bugs&rev=1386789377&do=diff
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[19:43:49] <Seniorita> [wiki] pst_bugs - [Gameplay] helpful info for fixing thieving selection http://www.gemrb.org/wiki/doku.php?id=pst_bugs&rev=1386791013&do=diff
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[20:38:23] <Seniorita> [wiki] pst_bugs - [Gameplay] traced resting blocker http://www.gemrb.org/wiki/doku.php?id=pst_bugs&rev=1386794117&do=diff
[20:38:50] <brada> wow chiv, good work actually tracking down the cause of some of these issues instead of just telling us they are issues
[20:40:01] <chiv> thats ok mate, it was my plan all along
[20:40:25] <chiv> i'm methodical sort of person, I do jobs in batches
[20:41:36] <lynxlynxlynx> yeah, very good starting point
[21:20:43] <Seniorita> [wiki] pst_bugs - note a possible place to fix dying drop item behaviour http://www.gemrb.org/wiki/doku.php?id=pst_bugs&rev=1386796633&do=diff
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[21:57:46] <Seniorita> [wiki] pst_bugs - [Gameplay] investigation of original map travel behaviour http://www.gemrb.org/wiki/doku.php?id=pst_bugs&rev=1386798964&do=diff
[21:57:53] <chiv> woo only one 'gameplay' bug left to hunt down
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