#gemrb@irc.freenode.net logs for 14 Aug 2010 (GMT)

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[08:09:54] <fuzzie> morning
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[08:24:28] <fuzzie> is the "difficult to use travel triggers with a party" bug on the todo somewhere?
[08:25:09] <lynxlynxlynx> iirc in the linked forum post
[08:25:41] <fuzzie> ah, perfect
[08:28:56] <fuzzie> i am a bit unhappy to find that iwd2's instants are yet another mess
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[08:30:01] <fuzzie> but i guess that's so far off in the future i can quietly ignore them for now
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[08:37:06] <lynxlynxlynx> yeah
[08:38:04] <fuzzie> our implementation of Continue() is probably broken too
[08:39:19] <fuzzie> just thought i should mention these things, since if they break scripts, "oops, instant actions are executed before Continue(), iwd2-style" is more useful than spending hours debugging a script, i hope :)
[08:41:15] <fuzzie> now i'm trying to work out how Interact() is meant to work
[08:41:16] <fuzzie> any idea?
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[08:41:32] <fuzzie> all the scripts do things like Interact("Aerie") and Interact(Player1)
[08:42:00] <fuzzie> but there's only one side to a banter!
[08:42:29] <fuzzie> so gemrb ends up with Imoen playing the part of Keldorn or whatever
[08:52:20] <lynxlynxlynx> huh
[08:53:35] <lynxlynxlynx> how can this happen? you have the right actor as the parameter
[08:53:39] <fuzzie> i mean, that's easy enough to fix, just swap them both
[08:54:02] <fuzzie> but the dialog code wants a 'speaker' and a 'target'
[08:54:19] <fuzzie> and the Interact() stuff *is* all in scripts; like, Interact("Aerie") in Minsc's scripts
[08:56:41] <fuzzie> (i should warn: this doesn't work in the git version)
[08:56:42] <lynxlynxlynx> yes, since they can interact
[08:58:19] <fuzzie> well, i mean, the banter dialog files work out who to talk to themselves
[08:58:33] <fuzzie> you get a state with an InParty("Aerie") check etc
[08:59:04] <lynxlynxlynx> oh
[09:03:54] <fuzzie> maybe the target is only used for InteractingWith()
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[09:04:48] <fuzzie> but all the uses of that in bg2 are clearly leftovers from bg1
[09:05:50] <fuzzie> so i don't understand :)
[09:07:25] <fuzzie> sometimes researching this stuff is really a treasure hunt
[09:07:35] <fuzzie> got to try and find the one forum post where someone explained
[09:09:29] <fuzzie> but i guess the target is just irrelevant. huh.
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[09:38:46] <Micru> morning
[09:40:08] <Micru> in case you are bored here you go more screenshots: http://picasaweb.google.com/dacuetu/BG2_test?authkey=Gv1sRgCNbS5YytrdLCzgE&feat=directlink
[09:41:05] <Micru> there is an AC penalty in the original that in gemrb is not present
[09:41:52] <Micru> plus 2 items appear when importing a character from gemrb into bg2tob
[09:41:58] <Micru> and other minor things
[09:42:21] <Micru> it is explained in the comments
[09:43:49] <lynxlynxlynx> the reputation thing is odd, we read the right value from the table
[09:44:10] <lynxlynxlynx> as if they give a runtime bonus :s
[09:44:17] <Micru> bg2 just adds 2 when importing the game
[09:44:25] <Micru> it is a runtime bonus
[09:44:59] <lynxlynxlynx> they suck. next()
[09:45:28] <lynxlynxlynx> don't worry about the ac and hp, you correctly noticed that they just don't get updated (pause issues)
[09:46:26] <Micru> no problem, you don't have to correct it now, it is just for the record
[09:47:29] <lynxlynxlynx> yeah, we know about it
[09:48:32] <lynxlynxlynx> the saving throw display amazes me, as i've added this like two weeks ago
[09:49:19] <lynxlynxlynx> maybe a soa/tob difference, but it does look better that way
[09:49:52] <Micru> you mean with the result between parenthesis?
[09:50:30] <lynxlynxlynx> with the bonus
[09:50:37] <Micru> ah, yes
[09:51:58] <Micru> and then there are some "+" and "%" missing. the version i'm using is from 06.08.10
[09:52:23] <Micru> was it already corrected?
[09:56:38] <lynxlynxlynx> use the latest, there's too much good stuff happening to be stuck in a date
[09:58:37] <lynxlynxlynx> not sure about the +/%
[09:58:38] <Micru> i have been taking a look to the commits and it doesn't seem to be corrected
[09:58:54] <lynxlynxlynx> i know we add the % for thief skills where the original doesn't, but that's an improvement
[10:02:08] <lynxlynxlynx> explain what you mean then
[10:02:29] <lynxlynxlynx> oh, the next screenshot
[10:02:58] <CIA-26> GemRB: 03lynxlupodian * r3d7a1b6c74c8 10gemrb/gemrb/GUIScripts/bg2/GUIREC.py: bg2::guirec: show the save bonus instead of the modified stat
[10:05:17] <CIA-26> GemRB: 03lynxlupodian * r717604333e7e 10gemrb/gemrb/GUIScripts/bg2/GUIREC.py: bg2::guirec: add + prefixes to some more values
[10:06:41] <Micru> that was fast :)
[10:07:22] <lynxlynxlynx> the reaction is trickier, since there are two
[10:08:11] <Micru> two reactions? how comes?
[10:08:43] <lynxlynxlynx> one is tied to dexterity and probably the combat initiative (weapon speed bonus?), the other to interactions
[10:09:11] <lynxlynxlynx> the base reaction is 10, then it is modified by the reputation and charisma bonuses
[10:10:11] <Micru> ahm, good to know
[10:17:56] <lynxlynxlynx> the critical hit bonus will stay negative
[10:18:45] <lynxlynxlynx> "%" symbols missing <-- in the original, not gemrb :)
[10:20:01] <Micru> oh yes, you are right :)
[10:20:40] <CIA-26> GemRB: 03lynxlupodian * r95a8526a0bce 10gemrb/gemrb/GUIScripts/bg2/GUIREC.py: bg2::guirec: some more + prefixing
[10:21:30] <Micru> i've changed the comment to "improvement"
[10:25:04] <lynxlynxlynx> the ac difference is due to the helm, not the weapon
[10:25:12] <Micru> are you sure?
[10:25:27] <Micru> when the helm is removed, the difference is still there
[10:26:10] <lynxlynxlynx> most of this is due to pausing
[10:26:28] <lynxlynxlynx> you can get -40 ac by just reequiping it
[10:26:41] <Micru> :-O
[10:26:42] <lynxlynxlynx> it won't last more than 1/15 of a second once you unpause though :)
[10:28:17] <Micru> i'm leaving a moment, my bike is already repaired and i have to fetch it
[10:28:33] <Micru> see you later
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[11:31:16] <fuzzie> got to ask if that ToB start thing was a gemrb game or a gemrb character
[11:31:37] <fuzzie> because we don't set any of the ToB flags in the game right now, so when you load one in the original it's going to try re-applying everything
[11:40:31] <lynxlynxlynx> the intro popup?
[11:40:50] <lynxlynxlynx> oh, the extra equipment
[11:58:57] <fuzzie> seems that gemrb just reads those flags into 'KillVarsCount' (so, thrown away) and writes them as 0 == bg1-era, i'm surprised the PCs don't get capped at 89k XP
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[12:58:49] <Micru> one question: do you have any of you a all-in-one-script to: check if the local version is the latest+download changes+build+install+run
[13:04:29] <lynxlynxlynx> git pull
[13:04:37] <lynxlynxlynx> if it does something, then run make
[13:05:35] <Micru> ok, thanks
[13:05:47] <lynxlynxlynx> you can run gemrb out of the build dir
[13:06:06] <lynxlynxlynx> gemrb/gemrb [-c path/to/config]
[13:16:47] <Micru> another dumb question... when gemrb is running, how can i know which repository version is being executed?
[13:19:30] <lynxlynxlynx> it prints a version when you start
[13:19:45] <lynxlynxlynx> current version is 0.6.1 also in the repo
[13:19:52] <lynxlynxlynx> i'll change that in a week
[13:23:51] <Micru> no, i don't mean gemrb version, i mean the repository version, for instance last commit number: 95a8526a0bce58ae0fe926f96e577b8639939be0
[13:30:03] <fuzzie> 'git log -1 --oneline' will show the last commit you have
[13:30:15] <fuzzie> or i guess just 'git log -1' is friendlier
[13:31:58] <Micru> it could be that i have a local version of the code that is the last one, but the compiled version it is not
[13:32:20] <Micru> well, doesn't matter, i'll be careful with this
[13:33:30] <fuzzie> we can't do that much about that
[13:33:52] <fuzzie> but you can just run make every time
[13:34:02] <fuzzie> it'll only rebuild things if something changed, so easy to see
[13:34:42] <Micru> i did that, but the old version is there...
[13:38:18] <Micru> ups, i did something wrong --> checkinstall gemrb ::facepalm::
[13:46:08] <Micru> when i run "gemrb/gemrb -c /usr/local/etc/gemrb" i get the error:
[13:46:09] <Micru> [Core]: Cache path /home/ubik/.gemrb/Cache doesn't exist, not a folder or contains alien files!
[13:46:11] <Micru> Press enter to continue...
[13:46:53] <Micru> should i put the cfg file somewhere else?
[13:48:08] <fuzzie> you should make sure you have the rigth paths in the config
[13:50:09] <fuzzie> if you're running from where you built it: PluginsPath should point to the gemrb/plugins directory where you *built* it (e.g. in build/), your CachePath should point somewhere you can cache things (./Cache/ is usually good) and the GemRBPath should point to the gemrb/ directory inside your git checkout (with 'override' and 'GUIScript' in it, not inside the build directory)
[13:50:37] <fuzzie> tomprince did this idiotic 'HERE BE DRAGONS' nonsense in the example config
[13:51:02] <fuzzie> i guess we should move that to GemRB.cfg.sample-install and make a GemRB.cfg.sample-noinstall or something
[13:51:45] <Micru> got it
[13:52:17] <lynxlynxlynx> good idea
[13:53:03] <fuzzie> then make PluginsPath=./Plugins/ by default, CachePath=./Cache/ and GemRBPath=../../gemrb/
[13:53:37] <fuzzie> or, i guess, ./gemrb/Plugins/ and ./gemrb/Cache/ and ../gemrb/ - then it works from inside build/
[13:54:47] <fuzzie> oh, i guess it doesn't matter where the Cache is :) but that sounds reasonable?
[13:55:02] <fuzzie> seems to work well enough
[13:56:17] <fuzzie> personally i just run it inside build/gemrb/, then i can do './gemrb', but i don't know which makes more sense
[13:56:40] <lynxlynxlynx> i have them in build too
[13:57:05] <lynxlynxlynx> the problem with relative paths is that the file then can't be moved anymore
[13:57:22] <lynxlynxlynx> if the distributor dumps it in etc it becomes useless
[13:57:32] <fuzzie> well, this wouldn't be used by distributors anyway
[13:57:58] <fuzzie> but if you have a better idea..
[14:01:33] <fuzzie> i mean, i'm not very rational about the whole thing, because it just causes me annoyance
[14:02:30] <fuzzie> i'm happy with whatever makes it simplest for people, bearing in mind the whole .pyc mess etc
[14:03:03] <lynxlynxlynx> is libpng really optional?
[14:03:38] <Micru> ok, now i have the cfg in the build directory, let's see
[14:04:06] <fuzzie> lynxlynxlynx: yes, you just lose the PNGImporter
[14:04:20] <fuzzie> same deal with libvorbisfile
[14:04:33] <fuzzie> if you're updating INSTALL, add a " - SDL_mixer (optional, for fast lower-quality sound)" line please
[14:04:59] <lynxlynxlynx> that's what i'm doing
[14:05:20] <fuzzie> great :)
[14:05:44] <fuzzie> (don't mean it has to be that exact line, i just copy-and-pasted that out of the mess i made of it)
[14:07:15] <CIA-26> GemRB: 03lynxlupodian * r194d974c7382 10gemrb/ (4 files in 3 dirs): mention the new sdl_mixer plugin
[14:07:43] <lynxlynxlynx> any objection to removing gemrb/docs/en/Building.txt (autotools info)
[14:08:07] <fuzzie> nopr
[14:08:18] <fuzzie> i guess the last few autotools users are going to be porters who are going to already know how it works
[14:08:42] <lynxlynxlynx> apart from the --disable-subdirs option, it is completely standard
[14:13:07] <CIA-26> GemRB: 03tom.prince * rda35ac8da20c 10gemrb/gemrb/ (core/TableMgr.h plugins/2DAImporter/2DAImporter.h):
[14:13:07] <CIA-26> GemRB: add a FindTableValue helper function for strings too
[14:13:07] <CIA-26> GemRB: (pulled out of another patch by fuzzie)
[14:13:07] <CIA-26> GemRB: Signed-off-by: Alyssa Milburn <fuzzie@fuzzie.org>
[14:13:10] <CIA-26> GemRB: 03fuzzie * rf8df360f37d6 10gemrb/gemrb/core/ (Map.cpp Map.h): add Map::GetActorByScriptName helper
[14:13:11] <CIA-26> GemRB: 03tom.prince * rcb26650d86d7 10gemrb/gemrb/core/GUI/GameControl.cpp:
[14:13:11] <CIA-26> GemRB: Do a reverse lookup in interdia.2da to try to find actor for next dialog.
[14:13:11] <CIA-26> GemRB: (modified and commented by fuzzie)
[14:13:11] <CIA-26> GemRB: Signed-off-by: Alyssa Milburn <fuzzie@fuzzie.org>
[14:14:54] <fuzzie> usually i would just commit those all with me as author, but he seemed to want the authorship to be left intact
[14:15:46] <fuzzie> Interact is still broken due to the source/target issue i mentioned, but it looks like he had the right idea, so i thought it'd better go in
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[14:28:03] <fuzzie> i think the real issue is that dialogs don't have a source and a target
[14:28:06] <fuzzie> they just have a speaker
[14:29:55] <fuzzie> i guess i should refactor all the dialog code
[14:30:39] <lynxlynxlynx> i think i missed one of the talkerid changes
[14:30:41] <fuzzie> lynxlynxlynx: you're good at this; do you have an idea for a class name for dialog handling? DialogMgr is already taken (for DLG files)
[14:30:58] <lynxlynxlynx> DialogHandler? :)
[14:31:20] <fuzzie> ok, now i feel silly :-) thanks
[14:33:44] <fuzzie> (not going to do it now, so go ahead with any talkerid stuff)
[14:35:39] <lynxlynxlynx> oh, i forgot :)
[14:36:13] <lynxlynxlynx> i think i saw in some other long pingpong dialog that the white circle wasn't updating properly, while the centering looked ok
[14:37:03] <CIA-26> GemRB: 03lynxlupodian * r3f58499eb941 10gemrb/gemrb/docs/en/Building.txt: Building.txt: removed an autotools remnant
[14:37:16] <CIA-26> GemRB: 03lynxlupodian * r188381e5dcc1 10gemrb/README:
[14:37:16] <CIA-26> GemRB: README: redirect to INSTALL for the requirements; list all the known
[14:37:16] <CIA-26> GemRB: platforms; style changes
[14:38:20] <lynxlynxlynx> it was a bit of a surprise, because i looked hard to handle them all and it works fine in that spellhold talkshow
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[14:42:38] <fuzzie> well, i wouldn't worry too much about it
[14:43:14] <fuzzie> all of that code is far too complicated
[14:51:03] <fuzzie> i suppose we can jsut get Lightkey to rewrite it
[14:53:07] <Lightkey> will get right on it.. oh wait
[14:53:25] <CIA-26> GemRB: 03lynxlupodian * r98ca5f8669d4 10gemrb/gemrb/tests/minimal/data/instant.ids: minimal: added instant.ids dummy
[14:53:26] <CIA-26> GemRB: 03lynxlupodian * r7c04273c576f 10gemrb/gemrb/ (CMakeLists.txt GemRB.cfg.noinstall.sample):
[14:53:26] <CIA-26> GemRB: GemRB.cfg.noinstall.sample: added config that can be run directly from the build dir
[14:53:26] <CIA-26> GemRB: it runs the minimal dataset
[14:54:22] <fuzzie> lynxlynxlynx: great :)
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[15:14:57] <lynxlynxlynx> docs updated too
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[16:09:18] <CIA-26> GemRB: 03lynxlupodian * r14d57f4b790b 10gemrb/gemrb/ (8 files in 8 dirs): display the "Lost class: " strings when rangers or paladins fall
[16:49:52] <CIA-26> GemRB: 03lynxlupodian * r28288cb33942 10gemrb/gemrb/docs/en/ (GemRB_INI.txt gemrb_ini.txt): renamed the gemrb.ini doc to match the filename and quicken the G tab completion
[16:49:54] <CIA-26> GemRB: 03lynxlupodian * r7d292e7f18c3 10gemrb/gemrb/docs/en/gemrb_ini.txt: gemrb_ini.txt: added the missing options and fixed the wrapping
[16:56:37] <fuzzie> making the string display work properly will be a lot of fun, i'm sure
[17:01:53] <fuzzie> i'm not even sure which way around it works
[17:02:02] <fuzzie> (opcode first, or message first?)
[17:03:56] <lynxlynxlynx> if it has to be linear, then that way, since the opcode can be resisted
[17:04:51] <fuzzie> well, i guess Avenger will have decoded it all by the time we have to look at it
[18:01:19] <fuzzie> Lightkey: do you ever actually play any of these games? :)
[18:01:42] <Lightkey> tsk, tsk
[18:01:54] <Lightkey> ashamed to ask in the other channel? :p
[18:02:26] <fuzzie> they might remmber i exist
[18:02:37] <Lightkey> and, no, I just collect, played a few, completed only a handful
[18:03:27] <Lightkey> wjp will rat you out anyway
[18:05:08] <Lightkey> oh, I got another Ultima VIII of course..
[18:06:04] <Lightkey> and Ultima IX, I know, the price was just too good, original big box with cloth map, collecting cards and everything
[18:06:06] <fuzzie> i've still never played any Ultima game
[18:07:18] <fuzzie> must try Exult sometime, but time! :)
[18:07:51] <lynxlynxlynx> they're kinda odd
[18:07:58] <fuzzie> and i have no convenient jumble sales to binge-buy from
[18:08:23] <lynxlynxlynx> i think i played VII, definitely something in decent 3d
[18:10:40] <Lightkey> 3D, right
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[18:44:55] <fuzzie> Micru: did you import a gemrb game into the original for your screenshots, or just a gemrb character?
[18:45:46] <Micru> a gemrb game
[18:46:10] <Micru> and when it starts it says that the group gains xp + reputation
[18:46:27] <fuzzie> mm
[18:46:32] <Micru> I can tell you the exact numbers if you wish
[18:47:04] <fuzzie> no, i was curious because we save all games with their game set to "original bg1"
[18:47:43] <fuzzie> so the original engine probably upgrades it all the way (bg1 -> totsc -> bg2 -> tob), adding xp/rep/items
[18:47:46] <Micru> there is some weird stuff happening with the items, I got +2
[18:48:04] <Micru> it could be, yes
[18:48:17] <fuzzie> you get the bag of holding and the necklace?
[18:48:25] <Micru> exactly
[18:48:31] <fuzzie> those are what you normally get in a bg2->tob upgrade :)
[18:48:54] <fuzzie> so i guess that is a simple bug
[18:48:56] <fuzzie> hoorah
[18:49:01] <Micru> :)
[18:49:11] <Micru> btw, I'm trying the GemRB.cfg.noinstall.sample and I'm geting the following error http://pastebin.ca/1917034
[18:49:43] <Micru> I configured as you said, but maybe I'm still missing something
[18:50:25] <fuzzie> you made a 'build' directory in your gemrb directory, and then run 'gemrb/gemrb' inside that?
[18:50:48] <Micru> I run gemrb/gemrb -c ../gemrb/GemRB.cfg.noinstall.sample
[18:51:07] <Micru> is that right?
[18:51:18] <fuzzie> yes
[18:51:48] <fuzzie> hmm, it works here
[18:52:06] <fuzzie> without any modifications
[18:52:25] <Micru> no modifications at all, i deleted all my old files and did a clone
[18:52:47] <Micru> then i followed the instructions, and all worked fine till this error
[18:52:55] <fuzzie> the instructions on the wiki?
[18:53:13] <Micru> the new instructions on the wiki, yes
[18:53:43] <Micru> http://gemrb.sourceforge.net/wiki/doku.php?id=installation
[18:54:23] <Micru> wait, should i delete the other cfg file?
[18:54:29] <fuzzie> no, not necessary
[18:55:18] <Micru> i don't understand why it is looking for a file called progtest
[18:55:22] <Micru> is that the sample game?
[18:55:32] <fuzzie> no, that is bg2
[18:55:51] <fuzzie> so it's weird
[18:55:52] <Micru> i don't have that file
[18:56:13] <fuzzie> i mean, for that to happen, it has to have found bg2 :)
[18:56:13] <Micru> i also unstalled the other gemrb using synaptic
[18:56:28] <Micru> could it be that it deleted some bg2 files?
[18:56:49] <fuzzie> the problem in the screenshot is that it can't find gemrb data
[18:57:01] <fuzzie> so i guess your paths are mixed up
[18:57:15] <fuzzie> but if it is trying to run bg2, i guess you changed the GemRB.cfg.noinstall.sample
[18:57:46] <Micru> i did, but i definitely don't have the files progtest, movend, etc
[18:57:58] <fuzzie> that is not the problem
[18:58:07] <Micru> ok
[18:58:10] <fuzzie> (bg2's data is faulty, we can't do much about that)
[18:58:20] <fuzzie> but it's the GemRBPath which is wrong, i guess
[18:58:41] <fuzzie> if you were trying to follow my instructions on irc, they are irrelevant after lynx added all of this
[18:58:46] <Micru> I'll check again, however the plugins load properly. should i post the whole console output?
[18:58:58] <fuzzie> a 'git diff' will show the original vs the new, to see any differences
[18:59:07] <fuzzie> (maybe that is obvious, but i'm never sure)
[18:59:50] <Maighstir> progtest and a few other files are not available in BG2, they were probably used as test files when the game was developed and removed as they compiled the final game though they forgot to remove the references to them.
[19:00:03] <fuzzie> i have been trying to clear up the console output recently
[19:00:22] <fuzzie> i made the plugin output denser, commented out the options output, don't display the irrelevant actions stuff
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[19:00:35] <fuzzie> but it's such a difficult challenge trying to make it better
[19:01:10] <lynxlynxlynx> you probably changed the gametype setting
[19:01:16] <Micru> yes
[19:01:18] <Micru> i did
[19:01:27] <Micru> should it be test?
[19:01:47] <Micru> ah no, i didnt
[19:01:55] <Micru> GameType=test :)
[19:01:58] <Micru> it was ok
[19:02:26] <Micru> GemRBPath
[19:02:35] <Micru> should i change it to the build path?
[19:02:46] <Micru> at the moment is GemRBPath=../gemrb
[19:03:18] <lynxlynxlynx> you shouldn't change anything
[19:03:27] <lynxlynxlynx> git diff should not print anything
[19:03:40] <fuzzie> oh i see
[19:03:48] <fuzzie> the test data is not in our override
[19:03:57] <fuzzie> that is confusing
[19:04:01] <lynxlynxlynx> is your build in the gemrb source tree or out of it?
[19:04:10] <fuzzie> so, don't change anything, except the GameType, as lynx says
[19:08:48] <lynxlynxlynx> GameType is already test
[19:09:53] <Micru> i'm going to start from scratch
[19:10:06] <Micru> just download code, compile and run
[19:12:34] <fuzzie> well, i guess Micru wants to actually run bg2
[19:13:00] <Micru> i think i missed one step!
[19:13:04] <fuzzie> maybe we need a wiki note about copying the config file and what to change, it's a bit confusing with the noinstall example having bg2 paths in there, but you don't want to remove the paths entirely i guess
[19:13:11] <Micru> cd gemrb*[^2] # move to the source directory
[19:13:13] <fuzzie> (sorry if i make little sense, tired)
[19:13:48] <Micru> my mistake was to create the build directory as a subfolder (I think)
[19:14:52] <lynxlynxlynx> and now you made it in /? :(
[19:15:09] <fuzzie> what's cd gemrb*[^2] meant to do?
[19:15:17] <Micru> exactly, i was going to ask that
[19:15:30] <lynxlynxlynx> not match bzipped tarballs
[19:15:45] <Micru> :-O
[19:15:55] <lynxlynxlynx> i need to check if we're using bzip2 or gzip
[19:16:08] <fuzzie> it just gives confusing errors here
[19:16:25] <Micru> bash: cd: gemrb*[^2]: No such file or directory
[19:16:33] <fuzzie> i mean, not your fault, but if i run it in the root then it matches other files lying around, and if you run it in the gemrb dir then it matches something else
[19:17:12] <lynxlynxlynx> removed the suggestion
[19:17:14] <fuzzie> Micru: but i think what is meant here is, "start in the base gemrb directory"
[19:17:45] <Micru> then it was right
[19:17:53] <lynxlynxlynx> for a fresh clone it is unlikely to match anything else
[19:26:03] <Micru> it runs opens during 100ms and closes again, here is the log: http://pastebin.ca/1917050
[19:26:13] <Micru> is that what it is expected to do?
[19:27:16] <lynxlynxlynx> yes
[19:27:22] <Micru> good
[19:27:43] <Micru> so now i have to set up the gamepaths and that is all, right?
[19:28:03] <lynxlynxlynx> yes
[19:31:20] <Micru> i just changed lines 154 to 159 of the file GemRB.cfg.noinstall.sample and again the same error :(
[19:32:10] <fuzzie> you need to change the GameType
[19:32:35] <fuzzie> i guess this is not so obvious as i thought
[19:33:05] <Micru> now! finally! :-)
[19:33:38] <Micru> is not possible to autodetect the gametype?
[19:34:17] <fuzzie> well, it's a bit complicated, but probably
[19:34:34] <fuzzie> the trouble is that we then also have to provide game-specific default resolutions and etc for it to be worthwhile
[19:34:40] <fuzzie> so it would need a bit of work
[19:35:00] <Micru> ok, don't worry then, there are more important things now
[19:35:26] <fuzzie> but it might be an interesting beginner's project
[19:37:10] <Micru> i don't know if my level is high enough but i could try if you give me some guidance
[19:38:03] <fuzzie> well, it probably needs C++ work, but i am very tired (busy day) and haven't thought about it
[19:38:22] <Micru> we can talk about it another day
[19:38:35] <lynxlynxlynx> do you have any prior experience?
[19:39:14] <Micru> i usally code in c for microcontrollers, i know the basics of c++
[19:40:26] <Micru> anyway, i have a lot of spells to test right now :)
[19:40:31] <lynxlynxlynx> then you shouldn't have any problems
[19:40:43] <lynxlynxlynx> gemrb is pretty light on wierd c++
[19:41:05] <lynxlynxlynx> even more so until half a year ago
[19:41:47] <Micru> i'll take a look to the code and see if i can figure out how to do it
[19:42:11] <fuzzie> when i'm awake i'm happy to explain anything i can, and i guess lynx and everyone else are too
[19:43:13] <Micru> great to know that you are still not fed up to the back teeth :)
[19:44:12] <Lightkey> sure, ask me anything you want
[19:44:45] <lynxlynxlynx> Interface::Init() and Interface::LoadConfig() are the main things
[19:45:04] <Micru> ok, it can be a good starting point
[19:46:33] <lynxlynxlynx> some moving around will be needed so you get the game path first and can get the game type out of it
[19:47:10] <fuzzie> well
[19:47:54] <fuzzie> yes
[19:48:08] <fuzzie> the "if (!GameType[0]) {" line is the one which checks for an empty GameType, i suppose
[19:48:54] <fuzzie> if you move that block below the "FixPath( GamePath, true );", then the GameType doesn't seem to be used before then
[19:53:05] <fuzzie> then you try testing FindInDir(GamePath, "somefile"); and seeing if you can at least make it find some file? that doesn't work with subdirectories, for that you need this PathJoin stuff to add a subdir, but i guess you can work it out
[19:53:21] <lynxlynxlynx> \nFurther, you may not reverse engineer, decompile or otherwise\nattempt to derive source code of this material.\n ;)
[19:54:16] <Micru> :)
[19:54:16] <lynxlynxlynx> and noticed it only now, but they used (cvs) $Id
[19:54:35] <lynxlynxlynx> $Id: luamem.c,v 1.16 1997/04/01 21:23:20 roberto Exp $
[19:55:36] <fuzzie> lynxlynxlynx: the actual license adds an "except as permitted by law", though :p
[19:55:38] <Micru> do you think it is a good idea to calculate the exe CRC or just looking at the name would do?
[19:56:01] <fuzzie> bg1 and bg2 both have 'bgmain.exe' and there are too many versions to checksum them
[19:56:15] <lynxlynxlynx> crc is bad
[19:56:20] <Micru> ok
[19:56:32] <lynxlynxlynx> patches, hacks, cracks, ...
[19:56:35] <fuzzie> but there is no doubt some file to check
[19:56:51] <Micru> then i can look for files only present in a bg1 install
[19:57:16] <Micru> i need time to install ALL games and make lists of files, but I'll find the way
[19:57:53] <lynxlynxlynx> no, i can tell you the characteristic files
[19:57:56] <fuzzie> but i suggest doing it in steps: make something which detects, say, two games, then make it use a data file (maybe a 2DA)
[19:58:11] <fuzzie> remember, right now it doesn't work at all without GameType, so it doesn't have to be perfect
[19:58:13] <lynxlynxlynx> we already check them to see which game data is installed in guiscripts
[19:58:34] <fuzzie> but you can't start loading other files, i think
[19:58:46] <fuzzie> so it has to be an on-disk file, i'm not sure everything we check in guiscripts is
[20:00:04] <lynxlynxlynx> on-disk vs on-cd?
[20:00:20] <fuzzie> not in cd and not inside a BIF
[20:00:40] <Micru> i'll have to do minimal installs then
[20:00:42] <fuzzie> but if PathJoin is used then i hope you can just specify arbitary filenames?
[20:01:19] <fuzzie> and as long as it uses an external 2DA, should be trivial to change it if better ideas are found
[20:02:09] <fuzzie> i guess we should *really* hold BIFs open, that would be a huge performance help for many people
[20:02:17] <fuzzie> i keep forgetting we do that. sorry, a tangent :)
[20:03:53] <lynxlynxlynx> at least two files should be checked to be certain
[20:04:04] <lynxlynxlynx> the exes are a good starting point
[20:04:38] <Micru> lynxlynxlynx, noted, i'll start tomorrow with it, now i'm too tired for that
[20:04:56] <lynxlynxlynx> then you just need another file to distinguish bg1 and bg2, iwd normal and iwd how
[20:05:53] <fuzzie> i can probably make some minimal file lists, if you decide to go ahead with it
[20:06:11] <fuzzie> pretty sure i have minimal installs of them all on one of the old laptops around here
[20:06:37] <fuzzie> but don't feel pressured, just i thought 'hey, a relatively simple thing', and maybe the spell testing is more useful/interesting :)
[20:08:13] <Micru> lynxlynxlynx, the character screen is looking much better now. the only thing that gives some trouble is the wraping, a minus sign is lost somewhere
[20:08:53] <Micru> fuzzie, don't worry about the file lists, i have to install the games anyway
[20:09:08] <lynxlynxlynx> the wrapping is a general text area bug
[20:09:23] <Micru> and of course i'll do both things at the same time, testing spells and this
[20:09:26] <Micru> ok
[20:09:46] <fuzzie> we probably want to find a way to do 'nice' wrapping for the icons anyway
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[20:10:13] <Ayla> hi guys
[20:10:14] <lynxlynxlynx> the icons make it look even messier
[20:10:17] <lynxlynxlynx> oj
[20:10:26] <Micru> hiya
[20:10:53] <Ayla> I got a question for you,
[20:11:03] <Ayla> how much RAM does GemRB need ?
[20:11:30] <lynxlynxlynx> too much, but it depends on what game/data you use it with
[20:12:00] <lynxlynxlynx> thinking of porting it somewhere?
[20:12:09] <Ayla> yeah
[20:12:10] <fuzzie> if you're unlucky, it can end up using 80mb or so
[20:12:24] <Ayla> I'm a dreamcast dev looking for a new project
[20:12:34] <lynxlynxlynx> definitely try the git version, it is more efficient
[20:12:49] <fuzzie> but i think the big problem on the dreamcast is the storage
[20:12:56] <Ayla> the dreamcast has the potential to run many great games, but one of its weak points is the RAM
[20:13:22] <Ayla> it has 16MB of main RAM, 8MB of video RAM and 2MB of sound RAM
[20:13:37] <Ayla> what's the problem with the storage?
[20:13:53] <fuzzie> you need writable storage
[20:14:04] <lynxlynxlynx> ugh
[20:14:16] <Ayla> well, it has memcards
[20:14:44] <fuzzie> original bg1 system requirements: 166 MHz CPU, 16 MB RAM, 2 MB video card RAM, 4X CD-ROM drive, DirectX 5.0, 300 MB available hard disk space, Windows 95
[20:14:59] <Ayla> but what would it need to save, game saves excepted?
[20:15:13] <Maighstir> cache
[20:15:15] <fuzzie> if you don't have scratch space to write to, you need another 50mb of RAM, so that makes it a lost cause
[20:15:25] <Ayla> ouch
[20:15:41] <Ayla> it's not possible to disable cache?
[20:16:34] <Lightkey> did you somehow miss the up to 80 MB RAM requirement before?
[20:16:34] <fuzzie> well, the cache is used instead of reading everything into RAM
[20:16:58] <fuzzie> Lightkey: well, with enough work, you could make gemrb a lot more RAM-friendly :)
[20:17:22] <fuzzie> but you can't fit it into 16mb with no scratch space.
[20:17:25] <Lightkey> and pigs can fly ;-)
[20:17:25] <Ayla> Lightkey: I didn't, but fuzzie said BG1 needs 16+2MB RAM
[20:17:39] <Lightkey> Ayla: original bg1
[20:17:41] <lynxlynxlynx> and 300M of free space
[20:17:48] <Lightkey> not GemRB
[20:18:11] <Ayla> the free space is for installing to the hard drive I believe
[20:18:13] <fuzzie> well, we have to squeeze gemrb at some point anyway, it is getting ridiculous
[20:18:25] <fuzzie> the 300mb of free space is 150mb install + 150mb scratch
[20:18:39] <fuzzie> i guess i should maybe make a note about this on the forum
[20:19:19] <lynxlynxlynx> the less ram you want to use, the more caching will be needed
[20:19:21] <fuzzie> so if you have only 16mb and no writable disk, i don't think it is possible, even with months of work
[20:19:31] <lynxlynxlynx> dreamcast is bound on both
[20:19:58] <Lightkey> well, not as rediculous as the guy who wanted to port it to the DS (4 MB RAM) but..
[20:20:22] <Ayla> :)
[20:20:23] <Maighstir> if there was a way to get the DC to use SD cards, it might be possible
[20:20:33] <Ayla> well, I have an SD card on my dreamcast
[20:20:43] <fuzzie> or the broadband adapter and NFS
[20:21:42] <fuzzie> but it would i think be a huge port anyway, since you'd have to build a python etc in there too
[20:21:46] <fuzzie> no fun
[20:21:59] <Ayla> hmm... ok
[20:22:07] <Maighstir> so use the SD card for cache storage and savegames, and then it's still tricky getting GemRB to fit into 16M RAM
[20:22:13] <Lightkey> they byte
[20:22:44] <Ayla> the problem here is that the dreamcast uses a custom OS, and does not run under linux
[20:22:59] <Ayla> so I don't know if python will like this
[20:24:42] <Lightkey> I am sure Linux runs on it, it's just a SuperH, no? :-)
[20:24:53] <Lightkey> yes, yes, not preinstalled
[20:25:11] <Ayla> there's a port of linux yes
[20:25:18] <Ayla> but there're quite no drivers
[20:26:07] <fuzzie> yeah, but you can't run linux on it because then you have about 6mb of ram
[20:26:21] <Lightkey> details
[20:26:33] <Ayla> that'd means the kernel is 10MB
[20:26:37] <Ayla> that's quite a lot :)
[20:27:21] <fuzzie> the kernel and the base userspace
[20:27:29] <fuzzie> lots of overhead
[20:27:57] <Ayla> okay
[20:28:10] <Ayla> well, then I need some other funny project to port
[20:28:50] <lynxlynxlynx> we're funny! \*/
[20:29:21] <lynxlynxlynx> if you like wierd names, i suggest uzbl
[20:29:22] <Micru> Ayla, does it have to be for dreamcast?
[20:30:00] <Ayla> Micru: well, yes, I'm not interested in other platforms
[20:30:32] <lynxlynxlynx> jagged alliance 2 :)
[20:33:16] <Micru> [intermission] lynxlynxlynx, could it be that the "open doors" stat is used as a percentage?
[20:33:41] <fuzzie> no
[20:33:48] <lynxlynxlynx> they go to 250 ;)
[20:33:49] <fuzzie> oh, maybe, for "open doors"
[20:33:59] <fuzzie> but for the others, what lynx says :)
[20:34:13] <lynxlynxlynx> you mean for bashing?
[20:34:17] <Micru> yes
[20:34:24] <Micru> bashing
[20:34:30] <Lightkey> Ayla: I am guessing Tyrian is already ported?
[20:34:40] <Ayla> yes
[20:34:49] <Lightkey> figured :-)
[20:36:08] <lynxlynxlynx> i can't tell
[20:36:32] <Lightkey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_port
[20:36:36] <Lightkey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_engine_recreation
[20:36:43] <Lightkey> go find something
[20:37:30] <Micru> in AD&D it was a percentage, and in the forums everywhere they say it is
[20:38:10] <fuzzie> by anyone reliable in forums? :)
[20:39:07] <Ayla> Lightkey: I've been there before :)
[20:44:15] <Lightkey> 2ooM's been dead for two years :-(
[20:46:12] <fuzzie> as far as i can see, open doors stat is no different to another stat
[20:49:06] <fuzzie> stat is taken, added to luck bonus, compared
[20:49:40] <fuzzie> no opportunity for % magic
[20:51:25] <fuzzie> i note we don't bother with the 100 check
[20:52:06] <fuzzie> which is a nice thought but a really silly thing to avoid :P
[20:53:22] <fuzzie> so should remember to fix that
[20:55:05] <Micru> finally i found a reliably source
[20:55:19] <Micru> BG2 manual page 225
[20:55:42] <Micru> There is a table and one of the columns is "Bashing %"
[20:55:43] <fuzzie> the original game just caps it at 80, as far as i can tell, so they can lie as much as they want
[20:56:20] <fuzzie> i mean, this is easy enough to test: use the original engine, find a lock with difficulty 120 (50% of max), try bashing it
[20:57:58] <lynxlynxlynx> Micru: the manuals are not reliable
[21:01:06] <fuzzie> it also has the thieving skills as %
[21:01:10] <fuzzie> page 232
[21:01:25] <fuzzie> someone has been a bit overly excited with the % key, perhaps
[21:01:57] <fuzzie> (well, i don't have my paper manual here, so i am going by some .pdf)
[21:04:30] <Micru> actually in the original D&D (the roleplaying books) it was like that
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[21:04:41] <Micru> but if in the game it is different, then ok
[21:05:00] <fuzzie> i think you can simply go into original bg2 chargen and put skills beyond 100 :)
[21:05:30] <fuzzie> lynxlynxlynx: you saw the stuff in the manual about secret doors?
[21:05:42] <lynxlynxlynx> no
[21:05:51] <lynxlynxlynx> *not recently
[21:05:59] <fuzzie> says that it's always active, gives some bonuses, and says it's 100% when using find traps
[21:06:38] <lynxlynxlynx> yes, i know
[21:07:14] <lynxlynxlynx> the thief find traps also does the illusion detection and can dispel a few of those spells
[21:08:34] <fuzzie> i'm just wondering if you know how accurate that is
[21:09:48] <fuzzie> (since there is no known stat for that in particular, just Detect Illusions and Find Traps)
[21:11:00] <lynxlynxlynx> i know it works in the original
[21:13:30] <fuzzie> the detect difficulty is not checked in any actions/opcodes
[21:13:48] <fuzzie> oh well
[21:16:03] <lynxlynxlynx> hmm
[21:16:11] <fuzzie> sorry, that doesn't mean anything
[21:16:31] <fuzzie> probably in the core somewhere, but i am not going to go REing
[21:16:33] <Maighstir> as for thieves' skills, yes you can raise them above 100, but I believe the game effectively caps them at 95 or thereabout
[21:16:41] <lynxlynxlynx> no
[21:16:52] <fuzzie> it compares them directly to lock difficulty, with a luck bonus modifier
[21:17:10] <fuzzie> with the exception that a lock difficulty of 100 means an unpickable lock
[21:17:19] <fuzzie> (and equivalent notions for non-lock actions)
[21:17:42] <fuzzie> this kind of simple math+comparison thing is easy to check
[21:17:56] <fuzzie> i just don't think anyone's done it for bashing
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[21:43:15] <Ayla> Lightkey: 2ooM is dead, but there's also OpenMOO2 which is alive
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[21:53:11] <Lightkey> was not that far down yet, nice :-)
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