#gemrb@irc.freenode.net logs for 14 Nov 2011 (GMT)

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[00:21:26] <pugvader> chiv: want to add that lighting to daimonin?
[00:21:29] <pugvader> totally doable
[00:21:51] <pugvader> right now it's tile based
[00:22:17] <chiv> me? I'm not a programmer, I just fiddle with stuff
[00:22:25] <pugvader> i fiddle with programs
[00:22:41] <pugvader> basically you just need to add phong/gouraud shading to the lighting algorithm
[00:22:57] <pugvader> using the nearest neighbors to calculate your edge weights
[00:23:07] <pugvader> i need a team of college kids
[00:23:16] <pugvader> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
[00:24:59] <chiv> heh, I work in a kitchen for a living - i understand so much about programming, then there is a sharp dropoff
[00:28:45] <chiv> I just posted the link because I thought actual programmers might find the concept interesting
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[00:46:37] <pugvader> kitchen is good honest work
[00:47:11] <chiv> doesnt teach you much about per pixel lighting though ;)
[00:47:26] <pugvader> i'm afraid daimonin is a bit of a dead project atm
[00:48:16] <pugvader> what's probably more relevant is a touchscreen-friendly gemrb
[00:48:41] <pugvader> would be quite nice to have kinetic scrolling on the map
[00:48:51] <chiv> yes
[00:48:56] <pugvader> you know how the whole tablet craze and everything..
[00:49:11] <pugvader> seems like a fairly good match
[00:49:12] <chiv> well, i havent caught on yet, but i can see how it would be good
[00:49:36] <pugvader> now that infinity games are on online resellers for cheap
[00:49:49] <pugvader> it might be possible to bundle them with gemrb and sell in a tablet app store
[00:50:20] <pugvader> maybe make a fund or llc for the gemrb project
[00:50:38] <pugvader> or rake in all the profits yourself
[00:51:36] <chiv> i would think that difficult seeing as the rights to the originals are probably scattered to the four corners of the earth
[00:53:03] <chiv> anyway, third party after market stuff can be just as 'mainstream', look at emulators
[01:03:48] <brad_a> pugvader: gemrb does support multitouch
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[01:06:15] <brad_a> and kinetic scrolling will be in the final SDL 1.3 (so i've read and already works with mac trackpads) and therefore gemrb will support that. i tested it with my mac and it works great.
[01:06:52] <pugvader> nice!
[01:07:01] <pugvader> but it's not really an sdl issue
[01:07:13] <pugvader> gemrb controls the horizontal
[01:07:17] <pugvader> gemrb controls the vertical
[01:07:35] <brad_a> nope
[01:07:40] <brad_a> not anymore ;-)
[01:07:48] <brad_a> i changed that forever ago
[01:08:00] <pugvader> O_o
[01:08:06] <brad_a> for the iOS port
[01:08:10] <pugvader> ahh
[01:08:25] <brad_a> so that they can scroll the viewort with simple finger dragging
[01:08:29] <pugvader> you are a very cool person
[01:08:34] <pugvader> :)(
[01:08:36] <brad_a> :)
[01:09:37] <pugvader> why didn't google use gnu/linux for android
[01:09:51] <pugvader> give it a nice windowmanager and fast booter
[01:10:00] * pugvader sobs
[01:10:40] <brad_a> that probably wouldn't stop SDL 1.3 for android being garbage :(
[01:10:43] <pugvader> hmm i spose with devices pushing 1GB you could wrap a chroot linux around your game
[01:10:56] <pugvader> just use android as a screenbuffer
[01:11:11] <pugvader> and use regular sdl
[01:11:30] <pugvader> but anyway you have to tell more about your work
[01:11:46] <pugvader> i haint buyin no apple devices tho :/
[01:13:01] <brad_a> well the touch stuff i have does isnt platform specific. SDL handles the platform abstraction.
[01:13:05] <brad_a> http://gemrb.sourceforge.net/wiki/doku.php?id=install:ios#touch_input
[01:14:05] <pugvader> how bad is 'garbage' when applied to android sdl 1.3?
[01:14:49] <brad_a> word is using SDL 1.3 on android results in terrible, unplayable, framerate.
[01:15:03] <brad_a> and untill recently android 1.3 didnt even support touch gestures
[01:15:15] <brad_a> its very incomplete
[01:15:33] <brad_a> it also wouldnt run for many devices im told
[01:15:35] <pugvader> this is velly bad
[01:16:15] <brad_a> well hopefully it will get better
[01:16:27] <brad_a> i think the big problem is that SDL doesnt really have any android devs...
[01:16:55] <brad_a> or at least not active ones
[01:20:28] <pugvader> you can see what i worked on last winter
[01:20:30] <pugvader> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGg-uhy6t3E
[01:20:32] <pugvader> binary and partial source http://www.filesonic.com/file/3510871865/osc_dist.tgz
[01:22:05] <pugvader> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVAwoFZKUSQ or that one with some music i wrote long ago
[01:55:44] <pugvader> i have bored you
[01:56:51] <tomprince> Everybody is just asleep, probably.
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[03:07:52] <pugvader> ok
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[03:25:23] <pugvader_> < pugvader> Why spend it at the strip club? Buy something that will appreciate. < kermit> the older i get the more i'll value the memory of hot young women
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[10:39:56] <edheldil> g3 is still (or again) suspended
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[12:17:02] <Kiranos> forums has been down for a couple of days now, any upates?
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[12:22:05] <lynxlynxlynx> http://www.shsforums.net/topic/45799-gibberlings3-down/page__st__60
[12:24:11] <fuzzie> seems like the best approach would just be to remove the forum for now, replace it with a "argh, forum software, doom :(" page?
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[12:25:46] <lynxlynxlynx> this could've been fixed ages ago, but they don't want any help
[12:25:52] <fuzzie> otherwise, complaining about people "spamming other sites' boards" when the g3 site has no info at all is a bit rich.
[12:26:57] <fuzzie> or just a "G3 is down while we play Skyrim, go buy it too!" message would also be appropriate atm perhaps :)
[12:29:42] <Gekz> herp derp
[12:32:22] <Yoshimo> that would be funny, and brave fuzzie
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[15:01:44] <edheldil> fuzzie: it's actually there, is not it?
[15:02:22] <fuzzie> what is?
[15:02:40] <edheldil> the message "we do not have time, we play Skyrim"
[15:02:58] <fuzzie> not on gibberlings3.net :P
[15:04:13] <edheldil> http://www.shsforums.net/topic/45799-gibberlings3-down/page__view__findpost__p__527112
[15:05:09] <fuzzie> yes, that post is the one which is complaining about people spamming other sites boards :)
[15:07:26] <fuzzie> my point was just that, if you don't want people asking about G3, there should really just be a message up there (with the rest of the site disabled).
[15:09:28] <edheldil> in the meantime my fear that after another such spam attack, or the one after it, the site simply won't come back anymore, grows
[15:10:38] <fuzzie> well, yes, bringing the site back up repeatedly without fixing it doesn't seem smart
[15:10:48] <edheldil> and I think that the webhoster is extremely lousy. But maybe it's for free and G3 has a big enough traffic to be grateful for that, dunno
[15:15:14] <Yoshimo> mhmm 8 $ per month if i understand the hosters website correctly
[15:16:15] <fuzzie> never trust a company offering 'unlimited bandwidth' :)
[15:17:03] <wjp> does that mean "we expect you won't use much, and if you do, we'll find some loophole to complain about it?" :-)
[15:17:35] <fuzzie> if it doesn't mean that, then you quickly go bankrupt as all the high-bandwidth users flood to your hosting
[15:18:25] <wjp> or maybe just that your switch is 10Mbit :-)
[15:18:30] <Yoshimo> cellphone providers offer unlimited traffic as well, BUT if you really use it, the bandwith and connection speed drops below a modem
[15:18:49] <fuzzie> heh, i think whether they offer unlimited traffic rather depends on where you are :P
[15:24:34] <fuzzie> although t-mobile here seem to be offering an unlimited plan with one of those crazy subsidy situations
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[15:25:49] <Yoshimo> "you have unlimited traffic, BUT if you download more than 200mb, we will throttle you to 56kb/s
[15:26:07] <Yoshimo> thats nuts
[15:28:47] <wjp> it's pretty fair I think
[15:29:11] <tomprince> Better than other alternatives.
[15:29:22] <wjp> yes... better than getting cut off or paying outrageous amounts for any overage
[15:29:25] <Yoshimo> mhmm, i just have the feeling that they stress the "unlimited" and try to hide the "200mb limit"
[15:30:12] <Yoshimo> i cant imagine those kind of contracts to work with a dsl connection ^^
[15:31:13] <fuzzie> at least a few years ago, they were pretty standard for low-end dsl in australia
[15:33:19] <Yoshimo> maybe im spoiled here in germany
[15:33:23] <edheldil> here all the mobile providers have so called FUP (fair user policy, hehe). As a result, when I connect my phone to cellular data and it downloads Packages.gz, I usually get fupped down to 16kbps, which is enough to get timeouts during normal browsing. Sucks ...
[15:33:25] <fuzzie> see e.g. http://go.bigpond.com/broadband/ (from telstra, incumbent operator there)
[15:33:33] <fuzzie> 5gb, then slowed to 64kbps, says the top plan :)
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[15:35:06] <tomprince> Yoshimo: You should see what bell canada is trying to get away with.
[15:36:34] <wjp> in Belgium Belgacom limits you to 64kbps on DSL if you go over the limit it seems
[15:37:02] <edheldil> but generally any mobile services here are overpriced and lowpar, compared to our neighbours. Just the last Friday I read an article how high prices here help to sponsor cheaper prices in our telcos' home countries
[15:38:27] <lynxlynxlynx> g3 is up again
[15:38:27] <edheldil> Czech regulator ended the second to worst in the Europe. And that only because we had better law environment than Romania or whoever was the worst
[15:38:30] <fuzzie> well, the mobile telcos here started making mumblings about shaping traffic by traffic type, e.g. shaping voip more
[15:38:54] <fuzzie> which was not so clever because a law was promptly passed banning that sort of thing
[15:39:11] <edheldil> See above :)
[15:39:21] <fuzzie> but they've taken the opportunity now to try and push much lower bandwidth caps on everyone.
[15:39:33] <lynxlynxlynx> hotkiz still exists :s
[15:39:50] <Yoshimo> who is that?
[15:39:50] <fuzzie> so it's a bit of a odd situation, with providers pushing 100mb internet plans.
[15:41:22] <edheldil> what's so odd? The less you transfer the less they have to invest in infrastructure
[15:41:54] <edheldil> or did you mean 100mbps?
[15:42:14] <fuzzie> edheldil: yeah, but people are not quite so stupid and there is some rather annoyed pushback on the part of customers who are being sold smartphones :P
[15:43:21] <edheldil> Good for you :)
[15:44:04] <fuzzie> well *I* don't have any mobile data plan at all, because it seems like just another way to waste money without helping much. :/
[15:46:43] <fuzzie> i.e. I am too poor for the mobile companies to care about.
[15:57:21] <edheldil> I have one which activates only for a day when I use, hence the low fup
[15:57:32] <edheldil> when I use it
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[17:04:48] <Yoshimo> g3 is back for now^^
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[17:52:17] <Beholder> hi all
[17:55:43] <brad_a> hello
[18:19:45] <lynxlynxlynx> oh man, they're at it again
[18:19:58] <brad_a> G3?
[18:20:09] <lynxlynxlynx> spammers on g3
[18:21:02] <brad_a> do they need some help? I do LAMP stuff for a living...
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[18:46:37] <lynxlynxlynx> i offered mine weeks ago, but didn't even get a reply
[19:06:39] <Yoshimo> didnt theacefes say intellectual stuff can be sent via im as well? ;)
[19:09:09] <lynxlynxlynx> there was plenty of intellectual stuff said already
[19:09:17] <lynxlynxlynx> it just needs some hard plumbing
[19:19:08] <Yoshimo> if i have a problem, and someone offers help, why should i tell him "no"?
[19:19:55] <brad_a> i think it was more like noting got said at all :)
[19:21:02] <lynxlynxlynx> i don't know, maybe there's a special reason she doesn't want to give other people access or maybe just too proud
[19:23:39] <brad_a> maybe she didnt see your offer?
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[21:22:16] <CIA-44> GemRB: 03avenger_teambg * r5f59b3bb2815 10gemrb/gemrb/core/Scriptable/ (Actor.cpp Scriptable.cpp Scriptable.h):
[21:22:16] <CIA-44> GemRB: turning around is smoother
[21:22:16] <CIA-44> GemRB: no turning around when game is paused
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[21:25:46] <Avenger> hello everyone
[21:25:51] <fuzzie> hi Avenger
[21:26:03] <brad_a> hello
[21:27:26] <Avenger> about g3: yeah, i offered to be mod just an hour ago, i got the answer they have enough mods. At least i got answer. Lets hope they can take care of the bots now. If they can't we might consider moving to a safer forum.
[21:29:24] <Yoshimo> shs seems to be a rather stable harbour, except an advertisment or 2 on occasion
[21:29:43] <fuzzie> who's running shs atm?
[21:29:49] <Avenger> yes, shs would be my guess too
[21:30:00] <Avenger> i like g3, though
[21:30:36] <brad_a> i like g3 too, but it would be nice to be on a forum that is not only more stable, but one that has more visibility IMO
[21:32:22] <fuzzie> i guess it's still liam. good option if g3 becomes totally unviable, then.
[21:32:36] <Avenger> what do you mean by visibility? G3 is one of the biggest IE forums. I wouldn't go farther than shs or pocketplane myself. If we have to think outside of the established ie sites we should rather start our own forum
[21:34:55] <brad_a> doesnt shs get more traffic? it would be nice if G3, shs, and others would just give us a link to our own i guess.
[21:35:22] <lynxlynxlynx> i disagree
[21:35:25] <fuzzie> i think if we had our own forum it would end up as a lot of annoying work
[21:35:34] <lynxlynxlynx> the last thing we want is more community fragmentation
[21:35:34] <fuzzie> i was going to say, lynxlynxlynx would end up doing it :P
[21:35:38] <fuzzie> and yes, fragmentation bad.
[21:35:44] <brad_a> well i would be willing
[21:36:50] <brad_a> how would it fragment our community if all those boards had a gemrb forum that was just a forward to one central forum?
[21:37:09] <Avenger> one more registration point, crumbles the user base
[21:37:36] <Avenger> most notorious people already have one reg for each forum
[21:38:26] <brad_a> fair enough
[21:39:59] <lynxlynxlynx> you lose faith quickly
[21:40:15] <Avenger> i agree with fuzzie and lynx, if we have to do our own forum that would mean lynx is doing it full time instead of working on gemrb. We would have less users too. Harder to find, etc.
[21:40:18] <brad_a> why do you say that??
[21:40:29] <fuzzie> heh
[21:40:43] <brad_a> that was @ lynx
[21:41:18] <lynxlynxlynx> you seem quick to abandon ship
[21:41:29] <lynxlynxlynx> g3 has done nothing but good for us
[21:41:51] <fuzzie> well, if you're a relatively recent user, it has been down for a large proportion of the time
[21:42:01] <brad_a> exatly
[21:42:12] <Avenger> well... except their inability to handle this recent bot invasion. But otherwise, g3 is really a good site.
[21:43:56] <brad_a> i wouldnt want to "abandon" anybody im just tossing out ideas for trying to get more visibility by funneling traffic from all those forums to our own.
[21:44:08] <brad_a> or even funneling them all to g3
[21:44:30] <lynxlynxlynx> funnel them to our website
[21:44:30] <fuzzie> well there's the shared news thing. which attracts people for releases, certainly.
[21:44:42] <brad_a> that too
[21:45:16] <Avenger> actually, shs guys invited me some years ago, but then i already chose g3. And i stayed with them, i didn't have any questions about this decisions up to now. I guess they just need to change the registration procedure to something bots can't go through so easily
[21:46:40] <Yoshimo> a google captcha would be good i think, not much of them you can read ;)
[21:47:39] <edheldil_> that and some less PITA webhost
[21:47:43] <edheldil_> Hi, Avenger
[21:47:47] <lynxlynxlynx> captchas suck
[21:47:54] <brad_a> ^this
[21:47:57] <lynxlynxlynx> probably more bots know how to read them than humans
[21:48:05] <Avenger> lol
[21:48:41] <edheldil_> the alternative is moderated registration, which sucks as well
[21:49:34] <brad_a> well there are always the question+answer method, but thats probably only as effective as a captcha
[21:49:46] <brad_a> but at least itseasier to read :)
[21:50:06] <edheldil_> brad_a: they suffer of limited or predictable dictionary
[21:50:54] <brad_a> it would be fun to use esoteric questions related to IE games tho :)
[21:51:11] <brad_a> (not suggestion its a good idea but it would be effective)
[21:51:16] <edheldil_> What can change the nature of a man?
[21:51:55] <edheldil_> ... of man
[21:52:53] <edheldil_> Or "what did Bioware think when they did not add strref field to button chu?'
[21:53:06] <brad_a> :-p
[21:53:08] <Yoshimo> lynx, many captchas fail, but i havent seen one that can crack recaptcha^^
[21:53:39] <edheldil_> I can't solve them often either
[21:54:04] <brad_a> well i have seem various plugins that will automatically check post content for new users for spm and do various checks/actions
[21:54:56] <edheldil_> it has its load of drawbacks too, alas
[21:55:44] <brad_a> well presumably it would be a good idea to limit new users from posting links and images
[21:57:43] <Avenger> hehe ed, i like those questions
[21:57:46] <edheldil_> some combination of the above for unregistered users and moderated registration would probably got rid of the problem
[21:58:47] <edheldil_> Avenger: selfishly I am glad that rejected your offer, Avenger :)
[21:58:53] <edheldil_> they
[21:59:25] <Avenger> how is that good for you?
[21:59:31] <edheldil_> for gemrb :)
[21:59:43] <Avenger> i wouldn't have done much
[21:59:57] <Avenger> just banish any users that pollute our subforums :)
[22:00:04] <Avenger> not a big work
[22:00:31] <Avenger> about 10 minutes work every day, i could do it from work
[22:01:03] <edheldil_> Maybe we should ask them again for our own group of subforums, so that we can have one for android etc
[22:01:46] <lynxlynxlynx> i don't think it's necessary
[22:01:52] <brad_a> i agree with lynx
[22:02:11] <brad_a> many users will mistakenly post bugs under android simply because they are using android
[22:07:32] <lynxlynxlynx> edheldil_: while we're talking about websites, please don't forget to renew the domain :)
[22:08:18] <edheldil_> yes, I have it as an internal TODO :)
[22:08:34] <brad_a> i hope your internal todos work better than mine :)
[22:08:41] <edheldil_> hehe :-D
[22:09:18] <edheldil_> lynxlynxlynx: have you heard back from the guy who offered website redesign?
[22:09:30] <lynxlynxlynx> nope
[22:09:37] <edheldil_> thought so :(
[22:09:45] <lynxlynxlynx> his site is live, so in the worst case we could reconstruct the theme
[22:10:01] <lynxlynxlynx> but i doubt anyone would be for such re
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