#gemrb@irc.freenode.net logs for 14 Sep 2012 (GMT)

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[00:13:09] <NeoFax> Hello everyone!
[00:14:03] <NeoFax> I just installed BG2 and ToB on my Arch linux system. I would like to know how to send the terminal info to a log file.
[01:50:05] <brada> you mean asside from using > ?
[01:50:22] <brada> i think there is a cfg option, but i dont know it
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[05:59:31] <fuzzie> morning
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[08:24:45] <edheldil> hi all
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[08:54:56] <edheldil> brada: good question. Each platform has its own default logger, e.g. Stdio logger on *nixes. Then there's a pluginish File logger, which is I guess loaded with other plugins and that creates GemRB.log in the current dir. And then there's MessageWindow logger, which can (I believe) created by GUIScripts (and hence from console)
[08:55:28] <edheldil> but it could definitely afford some documentation
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[10:20:28] <lynxlynxlynx> as of last release, we always also write a log file
[10:20:51] <lynxlynxlynx> game dir, /tmp or none
[11:22:54] <edheldil> depending on what is writable?
[11:29:49] <wjp> there's a D&D promo on GOG
[11:39:52] <edheldil> I think I already have all of them - some even 3 times or 5 times
[11:40:14] <wjp> same here :-)
[11:42:50] <lynxlynxlynx> yes
[12:29:32] <Husar1> Same here, I have all bg games :)
[12:29:40] <Husar1> iwd, pst
[15:14:01] <kida_> same here :)
[15:26:51] <edheldil> :)
[15:27:14] <edheldil> so what game/character/moment do you guys like most?
[15:33:24] <kida_> of course, Minsc and Boo,
[15:58:35] <lynxlynxlynx> bg2/morte/encountering a certain adventuring party in abazigal's lair
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[16:52:48] <edheldil> I loved the scenes with Deionarra, they were very poignant
[16:53:29] <edheldil> like finding out that your former incarnation has sacrificed her
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[19:05:50] <edheldil_> fuzzie: do you know how to reroute paths in graph view in IDA?
[19:05:59] <Earnestly> Hey again, does anyone know how to successfully install planescape fixpack and unfinished business using WeInstall under Linux? I get errors (related to gog's installation?) and was wondering if anyone is aware of it.
[19:06:11] <Earnestly> (Not sure where else to ask and google isn't helping)
[19:06:25] <fuzzie> edheldil_: you mean, automatically? don't think you can.
[19:06:36] <edheldil_> and by hand?
[19:07:09] <fuzzie> Earnestly: if you can provide the errors someone might have a suggestion, I personally don't have the gog versions unfortunately
[19:08:30] <fuzzie> edheldil_: you can drag at vertices, shift doubleclick for new vertex
[19:09:01] <Earnestly> fuzzie: Sure, I can do that. Just curious if this was a common thing for people under linux/gemrb. I'll see about finding those errors (the widescreen works well)
[19:10:14] <Earnestly> (Just a note, gog puts a bunch of bif files under a /data folder which needs to be in the game's root directory, I have to copy them out before I can a) play the game beyond a blue screen and b) patch widescreen support.)
[19:10:44] <edheldil_> fuzzie: do you know how to drag the vertices? I do not see any handles, just sharrp corners
[19:11:21] <edheldil_> ah, ok, I just have to aim very precisely
[19:12:24] <fuzzie> yes, it is not very user-friendly
[19:44:18] <Earnestly> fuzzie: I copied all the files from /data instead of moving them and it seems to have worked. Also did it before patching the widescreen mode in
[19:44:46] <fuzzie> ok, that is good to know if other people come by :)
[19:45:25] <Earnestly> Still have to test it a bit. You have to do the same with GOG's bg2 otherwise you get blue screens (no map .bif things found)
[19:52:33] <Earnestly> fuzzie: There's still a few issues. It seems the various game options seem to have no effect or aren't enabled once you exit the options menu
[19:52:50] <Earnestly> For instance, "always run", which is enabled, but you still have to double click to run
[19:53:03] <Earnestly> Is that just gemrb?
[19:55:09] <tomprince> not implemented
[20:02:15] <Earnestly> Ah okay. Another amazing thing. "ghostdog's" junk won't install because he uses apostrophies in the file names
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[20:36:25] <edheldil_> fuzzie: any way to remove vertices?
[20:43:05] <Earnestly> Right, to install ghostdogs UI I had to remove all the apostrophies and dump the contents of ghostdogs UI root folder into the game's root directory and run WeInstall on the actual tp2
[20:43:09] <fuzzie> the theory is that they should be merged if you put them on each other I think
[21:00:00] <lynxlynxlynx> Earnestly: btw, we also tried to fix your lto issue
[21:00:17] <Earnestly> Heh, any success?
[21:00:28] <lynxlynxlynx> nobody uses lto
[21:00:44] <lynxlynxlynx> but we went from the error
[21:00:48] <Earnestly> It's fairly new, introduced properly in gcc 4.7 iirc
[21:01:06] <lynxlynxlynx> as for "always run", i'm pretty sure it should work fine
[21:01:18] <lynxlynxlynx> the last time i touched it wasn't that long ago
[21:01:35] <Earnestly> lynxlynxlynx: I couldn't get it sorted and after installing Ghostdog's UI I get segfaults after character creation
[21:03:31] <Earnestly> There's also a small bug, which I can't recall was in the original, during the very beginning when your character lies on the slab, you can click and get him to start moving but when Morte's introduction is triggered the game freezes
[21:03:59] <lynxlynxlynx> for any crashes, we'll need the back trace
[21:04:26] <lynxlynxlynx> i don't know what that mod does, but it should at least partly work
[21:04:58] <Earnestly> GhostDog's UI? It just fixes the UI for widescreen and increases the font size
[21:05:51] <Earnestly> (adds some window dressing and centers a lot of the windows which would otherwise appear in the top left corner. Btw, are videos able to scale?)
[21:05:59] <lynxlynxlynx> there's no such thing as *just*
[21:06:15] <lynxlynxlynx> videos don't scale
[21:06:17] <Earnestly> Heh, that's true I suppose
[21:06:42] <Earnestly> Yeah, they don't normally. I wondered if you had added some kind of functionality since you're using SDL
[21:06:42] <lynxlynxlynx> i can confirm there's something fishy with the settings though, i can't properly toggle it
[21:06:52] <Earnestly> ^ Yup, same experience
[21:07:15] <Earnestly> And when it does finally toggle, they change when you leave the options and reenter
[21:07:16] <lynxlynxlynx> this is my fault, the whole thing was refactored a few days ago
[21:07:40] <Earnestly> Ah
[21:07:42] <lynxlynxlynx> it reverts to what is in torment.ini when you exit the game - we don't save back
[21:08:22] <Earnestly> I see, that can be worked around then at least
[21:25:49] <edheldil_> fuzzie: thanks, it works, but it'sso braindead ...
[21:26:29] <fuzzie> yes.
[21:33:22] <lynxlynxlynx> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity
[21:34:08] <lynxlynxlynx> i wonder if they'd be willing to adapt gemrb :)
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[21:42:40] <wjp> wow, that pledge counter is going up fast
[21:54:28] <rocket_hamster> obsidian asking for kickstarter wtf
[21:54:40] <rocket_hamster> isnt that a bit too much when world class studiu has to ask for donation
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[21:55:11] <Earnestly> Obsidian is not Black Isle though, that train as unfortunately left long ago.
[21:56:26] <rocket_hamster> imho some of the kickstarter projects become vapourware
[21:56:40] <Earnestly> Everyone awesome went to Troika, the rest no one cares about :p
[21:59:09] <Earnestly> Basically Obsidian is nothing but another game studio who's very losely related to Black Isle, because two employees used to work there, so it's not really fair to say "world class studio", because they aint.
[21:59:10] <rocket_hamster> havent heared of troika for ages
[21:59:29] <Earnestly> troika went the way of black isle years ago :-/
[21:59:45] <rocket_hamster> ok maybe i overreacted, I just have a beef with kickstarter recently
[22:00:02] <Earnestly> Ah
[22:00:30] <rocket_hamster> it seems to me like most groups there just promise unbelievable things to get funding and not all of them do as they promised after that
[22:01:06] <rocket_hamster> like we promis this this and that when they get funded they get publisher close most communication and do as they please
[22:01:32] <rocket_hamster> kickstarter is great by imho some ppl began to abuse it
[22:02:24] <Earnestly> The way kickstater is set up though, is if the goal isn't reached, no one gets the money
[22:03:04] <Earnestly> Does this project eternity have any content available yet?
[22:05:51] <Earnestly> Also, I like how they claim to have developed stuff like ToEE, Torment, Fallout, IWD, etc. When they didn't
[22:07:46] <rocket_hamster> I know nothing about what they developed but if its true it supports my point
[22:08:08] <rocket_hamster> "financial sharks" have seen they can get money out of ppl if they promise heaven
[22:08:26] <rocket_hamster> once again a good thing has been corrupted by greed
[22:08:29] <rocket_hamster> thats how i see it
[22:08:43] <Earnestly> Well, Black Isle/Troika did that. Just because Obsidian has two random people on staff who used to work at Black Isle doesn't mean anything.
[22:08:54] <Earnestly> Although they probably hold the rights I'm guess
[22:09:03] <Earnestly> /guessing/
[22:09:06] <rocket_hamster> it depends on wwhat those people worked on
[22:09:16] <rocket_hamster> if it was lead designer and programmer maybe its believable
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[22:10:06] <Earnestly> That's like saying because the janitor from NASA is working at your company, your company is responsible for Apollo 7
[22:10:28] <rocket_hamster> lead designer is not janitor :)
[22:10:38] <Earnestly> Nah, it's just two randoms. The main guys left for troika and now Brian Fargo is doing Wasteland 2
[22:10:59] <rocket_hamster> oh
[22:11:22] <rocket_hamster> maybe they have been touched by *aura of BG development* ;D
[22:11:34] <rocket_hamster> oh not even that
[22:11:41] <rocket_hamster> does BG count in?
[22:11:45] <Earnestly> Have you seen alpha protocol? :-P
[22:13:18] <rocket_hamster> top down shooter?
[22:13:46] <rocket_hamster> just red wiki
[22:14:09] <rocket_hamster> looks like deus ex kind of thing
[22:14:12] <rocket_hamster> could be good
[22:14:12] <Earnestly> Uh no
[22:14:54] <rocket_hamster> was it developed by them,?
[22:15:01] <Earnestly> Obsidian? Yes
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[22:16:21] <rocket_hamster> ouch
[22:16:45] <rocket_hamster> well acording to what i red it pretty much failed
[22:17:03] <rocket_hamster> from average to bad ratings
[22:17:50] <lynxlynxlynx> err, chris avellone is a major figure, not just some random black isle dude
[22:19:20] <rocket_hamster> lynx what do you think about kickstarter projects?
[22:19:31] <rocket_hamster> i mean they grow like mushrooms
[22:19:31] <lynxlynxlynx> the great thing about kickstarter is that creators are liberated from the publisher's pressure
[22:19:56] <lynxlynxlynx> greater chance of getting niche stuff out
[22:19:58] <rocket_hamster> yes they are but do they keep their promise when they bag gets full?
[22:20:24] <lynxlynxlynx> not all, i'm sure
[22:20:36] <lynxlynxlynx> ks doesn't have much in the way of enforcement
[22:20:47] <lynxlynxlynx> but they don't just get money in advance either
[22:21:02] <Earnestly> ^ What lynxlynxlynx said
[22:21:29] <Earnestly> Less publishers the better, more avenues for tangible self-publishing the better
[22:21:35] <lynxlynxlynx> i also find it absurd that obsidian went this route though, they're a major studio
[22:22:29] <Earnestly> Do you really think so?
[22:22:48] <lynxlynxlynx> yes, very defensive play
[22:23:10] <lynxlynxlynx> they're not willing to put their money behind a labour of love?
[22:23:18] <rocket_hamster> dunno if you noticed kickstarter for shadowrun, they got 100x more then requested funding, promised tocooperate with players give out updates, well kickstarter ended and i cant find any news for 3 months
[22:24:22] <rocket_hamster> just like when notch with minecraft after he got safe he started to be lazy
[22:24:39] <rocket_hamster> sleezy updated during half a year etc
[22:24:43] <rocket_hamster> updates*
[22:26:31] <tomprince> def test_constructor(self):
[22:26:33] <tomprince> sched = timed.Nightly(name = "test", builderNames=[someL
[22:26:44] <tomprince> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1964352341/shadowrun-online/posts or http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1613260297/shadowrun-returns/posts
[22:27:02] <tomprince> rocket_hamster: ---^ both have updates within the last 2 days
[22:27:23] <rocket_hamster> shadownrun online is not shadowrun
[22:27:31] <rocket_hamster> its different funding project
[22:29:04] <tomprince> I'm guessing you are refering to the second one I posted, which also has updates.
[22:29:37] <rocket_hamster> it got funded on April 29. to this day there is no serious update
[22:30:08] <rocket_hamster> with 2 mil USD i would say they could produce something in 4 months
[22:33:19] <lynxlynxlynx> not if you want to do it good
[22:33:29] <lynxlynxlynx> imagine all the overhead
[22:34:29] <lynxlynxlynx> besides, most of the coding work is utterly boring
[22:34:44] <rocket_hamster> i understand but what i expected was XX number of polls "what do you want from this game" asking players but none seen so far
[22:35:00] <rocket_hamster> what they produced from april 29 is 5 fanarts
[22:35:10] <rocket_hamster> its just the way it looks to me
[22:35:33] <rocket_hamster> i *think* they got themself a publisher
[22:35:38] <rocket_hamster> i think ive red it somewhere
[22:35:40] <rocket_hamster> so maybe thats cause
[22:36:52] <rocket_hamster> lynx how can you say coding is utterly boring? its that your main occupation? :)
[22:37:34] <lynxlynxlynx> it is boring, try reading our git log or even changelogs
[22:37:42] <lynxlynxlynx> and no, it's not my occupation
[22:38:18] <rocket_hamster> ive looked into your code on several occasions
[22:38:38] <rocket_hamster> i guess its not about actual coding but about seeing it work
[22:38:44] <rocket_hamster> and feeling of creating something
[22:38:47] <rocket_hamster> you artist?
[22:38:52] <lynxlynxlynx> no
[22:38:58] <rocket_hamster> designer?
[22:39:01] <Earnestly> Haskell is fun
[22:39:10] <lynxlynxlynx> aren't they artists?
[22:39:21] <rocket_hamster> in a way yes
[22:39:28] <lynxlynxlynx> well, why would any proffesion not be compatible with art?
[22:39:36] <rocket_hamster> sw architect?
[22:40:02] <lynxlynxlynx> re project: they're in early stages, so it would be boring; we already have almost feature parity
[22:40:07] <lynxlynxlynx> no
[22:40:31] <rocket_hamster> why do you code then?
[22:40:49] <lynxlynxlynx> i'm a forester by education and work in an environmental ngo
[22:41:10] <lynxlynxlynx> i code for fun or more precisely for the pain, the challenge
[22:41:18] <Earnestly> ;)
[22:41:19] <rocket_hamster> very interesting
[22:41:28] <lynxlynxlynx> things don't happen by themselves
[22:42:00] <rocket_hamster> i thought you work for some sw company as a day job
[22:42:27] <lynxlynxlynx> maybe someday, i find gis very interesting
[22:42:45] <rocket_hamster> but hell there is a doctor who develops kernel so why not anviromentalist
[22:42:50] <lynxlynxlynx> would likely badly affect my free time coding time though
[22:42:54] <rocket_hamster> gis?
[22:43:14] <lynxlynxlynx> foresters are better equipped for coding than doctors :P
[22:43:25] <rocket_hamster> why do you think so?
[22:43:48] <lynxlynxlynx> due to what we actually had to study
[22:44:00] <rocket_hamster> well imagine you would spend 9h daily coding for some shitty company like MS/nokia, after you got home you would smash your computer ;)
[22:44:11] <rocket_hamster> i agree lynx
[22:44:13] <lynxlynxlynx> i'm not sure, but maybe we also need greater attention to detail
[22:44:49] <Earnestly> If it matters, Black Mesa is out now
[22:46:13] <Earnestly> As in; http://release.blackmesasource.com/
[22:46:41] <rocket_hamster> does half life run on linux?
[22:46:44] <rocket_hamster> natively
[22:47:18] <rocket_hamster> doesnt...
[22:47:36] <Earnestly> There was a port
[22:47:49] <Earnestly> Of the gold source engine
[22:48:03] <rocket_hamster> lynx you might start a game studio and kickstart yourself ;)
[22:48:23] <rocket_hamster> yes earn but that black mesa prolly wont run on linux
[22:48:28] <rocket_hamster> :/
[22:48:53] <Earnestly> It probably will once Valve ports Source to Linux
[22:49:11] <Earnestly> which is almost done, the Steam "beta" for Linux should be out in Feb iirc
[22:49:46] <lynxlynxlynx> uhh, game studio
[22:50:01] <rocket_hamster> i have a suspicion Sam Lantinga works for valve on that steam port
[22:50:07] <Earnestly> Here's the port of Goldsrc http://www.moddb.com/engines/xash3d-engine
[22:50:18] <rocket_hamster> Sam Lantinga is creator of SDL and many many game ports to linux
[22:50:29] <Earnestly> And you can run Half Life + it's mods under it apparently
[22:50:45] <Earnestly> Gordon Ryan? :/
[22:50:45] <rocket_hamster> yes lynx i think indie game studios have golden age
[22:50:54] <rocket_hamster> god knows how long it will last
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[22:51:29] <lynxlynxlynx> i doubt i'd like to work there
[22:51:29] <Earnestly> People play modern games? News to me
[22:52:49] <rocket_hamster> its amaizing how many western people are willing to give cash donating on projects
[22:53:17] <rocket_hamster> publishers created total frustration for players so if they see someone promise to give them what they want wallets pop open
[22:53:40] <lynxlynxlynx> you can't call that a donation though
[22:53:56] <rocket_hamster> well beta funding
[22:54:10] <rocket_hamster> is it taxable?
[22:54:57] <lynxlynxlynx> surely, you're paying for a product or service
[22:55:47] <rocket_hamster> ok them you have to register game studio in cyprus
[22:55:52] <rocket_hamster> :D
[22:56:07] <rocket_hamster> well there business plan from model book
[22:57:04] <lynxlynxlynx> cyprus is a bit of an oasis, yes
[22:57:19] <lynxlynxlynx> you from there?
[22:57:57] <rocket_hamster> nop
[22:57:59] <rocket_hamster> slovakia
[22:58:06] <rocket_hamster> but cyprus is tax free
[22:58:08] <rocket_hamster> 4%
[22:58:10] <rocket_hamster> heaven
[22:58:37] <rocket_hamster> major companies that are buying off everything here are registered there
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