#gemrb@irc.freenode.net logs for 1 Mar 2012 (GMT)

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[03:02:24] <CIA-28> GemRB: 03bradallred * r39c80f0e2ae0 10gemrb/ (4 files in 3 dirs):
[03:02:24] <CIA-28> GemRB: CocoaWrapper (iOS): remove GemRB.cpp from the build and instead have
[03:02:24] <CIA-28> GemRB: GEM_AppDelegate create and start the core directly. Additionally
[03:02:24] <CIA-28> GemRB: Initialize/Shutdown Logging on app start and exit. Now our logger is available
[03:02:24] <CIA-28> GemRB: for the entire app lifespan.
[03:02:25] <CIA-28> GemRB: 03bradallred * re9bfadc36303 10gemrb/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Add AppleLogger subclass to Stdio logger. This logger will display a GUI alert on FATAL errors (currently only on iOS)
[03:02:26] <CIA-28> GemRB: 03tom.prince * rc2c375636025 10gemrb/gemrb/ (380 files in 52 dirs):
[03:02:26] <CIA-28> GemRB: Add a GemRB namespace,
[03:02:27] <CIA-28> GemRB: This means we should have less clashes with other libraries.
[03:02:27] <CIA-28> GemRB: In particular, we clash with Point from apple's cocoa libraries.
[03:02:36] <CIA-28> GemRB: 03bradallred * r01318511d494 10gemrb/gemrb/ (380 files in 52 dirs): Merge branch 'namespaces'
[03:02:48] <brad_a> tomprince: thanks for the namespaces :)
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[03:26:20] <gembot> build #199 of osx-xcode-binary is complete: Failure [4failed compile] Build details are at http://buildbot.gemrb.org/builders/osx-xcode-binary/builds/199 blamelist: bradallred@me.com, tom.prince@ualberta.net
[03:26:21] <gembot> build #220 of osx-test is complete: Failure [4failed minimal test] Build details are at http://buildbot.gemrb.org/builders/osx-test/builds/220 blamelist: bradallred@me.com, tom.prince@ualberta.net
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[03:34:30] <brad_a> im going to assume those failures were because buildbot died
[03:48:49] <gembot> build #221 of osx-test is complete: Success [3build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.gemrb.org/builders/osx-test/builds/221
[03:52:31] <gembot> build #200 of osx-xcode-binary is complete: Success [3build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.gemrb.org/builders/osx-xcode-binary/builds/200
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[05:42:46] <brad_a> bah fixing the mouse on retina was easy enough, but the actual touch events are deeply screwed up. giving original x, y coordinates in excess of 20000!
[05:44:08] <brad_a> this makes me wonder if there is a type change im not aware of...
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[11:17:57] <edheldil> Regarding the BG revival, my guess is that Hasbro wants to bite off some share of smartphone/tablet market. So they are going to release iPad version of BG
[11:19:23] <edheldil> I do not believe they really don't have source code, but possibly they might aim at recreating 'streamlined' version of IE
[11:21:05] <fuzzie> none of it makes any sense though
[11:21:15] <fuzzie> I am reassured to find that the rest of the internet is just as confused as I am, though.
[11:48:33] <alx3apps> There were BG for javaME, BG: dark alliance for GBA (with Avellone, quite good diabloid) etc. Maybe it's time for another diablo clone with D&D4 lable on it
[11:51:40] <lynxlynxlynx> just labels
[11:52:10] <lynxlynxlynx> people care about bg2 for the story and mechanics, simply having a game in fearun is not enough
[11:55:09] <alx3apps> Don't think hasbro is concerned about bg2 community.
[11:56:55] <fuzzie> yes, I just don't see how anything *good* would get hasbro's approval
[11:59:59] <edheldil> have I said anything about it being good? :)
[12:00:12] <edheldil> err, *good*?
[12:00:50] <edheldil> why does not it make sense? Tablets are hip and there's clearly a lot of money to be made
[12:01:06] <edheldil> ... potentially
[12:01:41] <fuzzie> because hasbro are incredibly strict on game licensing
[12:02:16] <fuzzie> and if you wanted to have a good bg port you'd need to e.g. not replace all the 2nd ed rules :)
[12:02:53] <edheldil> Who owns BG franchise?
[12:03:15] <fuzzie> BG franchise is owned by Interplay
[12:03:58] <fuzzie> and since this new BG thing is done by people who updated MDK, Interplay are surely involved
[12:04:59] <edheldil> 1) Interplay can do w/o D&D rules 2) Hasbro could have been persuaded if they think it will do good to sales of D7D
[12:05:21] <fuzzie> but, their D&D license has expired.
[12:05:37] <fuzzie> but, on the other hand, Atari's D&D license recently got revoked.
[12:06:28] <edheldil> Hasbro was pulling D&D licenses back so that nobody detracts from their online offering
[12:07:05] <fuzzie> yeah.
[12:07:13] <fuzzie> so it's all crazy.
[12:07:31] <edheldil> I guess D&D5 is still a long time ahead, but *if* they would be releasing it together with an online game ...
[12:08:24] <fuzzie> yes
[12:08:44] <fuzzie> so, games with new rules make sense
[12:09:09] <edheldil> quite possibly somebody saw GemRB's success and thought about all the money they could make if only it was their paid application
[12:09:38] <edheldil> which is a reason to worry
[12:09:45] <edheldil> would be
[13:20:03] <alx3apps> If it will be a new game, they'll have GPL problems, we'll have new game content for GemRB :)
[13:33:12] <edheldil> eh? Why it should have GPL issues? They will not use gemrb for anything, imo
[13:34:58] <alx3apps> I read your message as "let's do some content, pirate gemrb and publish it on android market for money"
[13:35:40] <alx3apps> freeheroes2 were pirated such way for iOS without creator aknowledgement (and without new content)
[13:35:44] <edheldil> that would be perfectly legal if they published source code for the engine
[13:37:05] <alx3apps> their app will be rebuilded and republished soon under different name by other morons on app market in such case )
[13:38:33] <edheldil> no, the game data would not have to be GPLed
[13:39:30] <edheldil> I rather meant envying our niche and trying to displace us from it
[13:40:36] <alx3apps> Wanted to ask about it earlier - nothing of game data lies undeg GPL - images, game scripts? What about GUI code?
[13:43:20] <edheldil> GUIScripts are GPL and we do not distribute that much images, if any. Tables are hopefully too trivial
[13:44:38] <edheldil> you can look at our wiki, there's some though on what it would encompass to come up with a free dataset - which is also what would somebody need to come up with a proprietary dataset
[13:44:48] <edheldil> thought
[13:52:18] <alx3apps> Imagine, I'm game developer, I wrote new python GUI from scratch, it calls GPL'd ะก++ code, so my own GUI code should be GPL'd? Language interop in GPL is not always clear for me. What about game scripts?
[13:52:18] <alx3apps> I've just read newgame page, it says "please license your content under the GPL", and doesn't say what part of content (except engine patches) must be published
[13:53:15] <fuzzie> we are not the people to ask about that
[13:53:26] <fuzzie> if you want an answer to these kinds of questions, hire a lawyer
[13:53:49] <fuzzie> but almost definitely any GUIScript code is going to clearly be a derivative work and thus be required to be GPLed, if gemrb was used under GPL
[13:59:34] <edheldil> really? I am not so sure
[14:00:03] <edheldil> but ianal either
[14:02:48] <alx3apps> fuzzie: It's not a serious question from me of course. But as authors you are not restricted by "pure" GPL, you may explicitly state what part of content must be GPL'd and what not. May add additional exceptions/restrictions etc. Don't think I says something new though. I mean for ffmpeg http://ffmpeg.org/legal.html I have explicit License Compliance Checklist, and for gemrb have not. Of cource ffmpeg has slightly more derivatives than gemrb
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[14:03:28] <fuzzie> we don't represent all of the authors
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[14:03:59] <alx3apps> Under "you" I mean whole gemrb team
[14:04:38] <fuzzie> yes, but they're not all around, I mean
[14:04:49] <alx3apps> I'm not free software law expert though, maybe I'm wrong
[14:05:07] <fuzzie> the ffmpeg checklist is quite simple because it just says "when linking against the FFmpeg libraries"
[14:05:16] <tomprince> Well, we can state whatever we want, but if the license (and copyright law) is binding
[14:05:19] <fuzzie> so, if you start doing anything weirder then it's not covered
[14:05:35] <fuzzie> but for gemrb this is indeed all very thereotical
[14:07:02] <tomprince> Which isn't to say that if we state something that is different then the usual interpretation, and make that clear, that that will won't affect a legal judgement.
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[15:57:03] <brad_a> on ios if a config error stops the core from initializing an alert pops up saying init failed then the wrapper interface is restarted so they can edit the config and try again. However, the alert is not very helpful and i would like to enhance it by posting the exact error that core had.
[15:57:13] <brad_a> there are 2 way i currently see doing this
[15:57:44] <brad_a> 1. is have those messages loggeded with the FATAL level so that the apple logger pops up a gui alert on its own
[15:58:06] <brad_a> or 2. have the logger remember its last message so it could be accessed later
[15:58:24] <fuzzie> why aren't they error()ing?
[15:58:50] <brad_a> well they could but then that poses an undesireable tho acceptable issue
[15:58:57] <brad_a> which is the app terminates
[15:59:11] <fuzzie> oh, your wrapper is in the same binary?
[15:59:15] <brad_a> yes
[15:59:20] <brad_a> its ios :)
[15:59:21] <fuzzie> that is maybe not such a good design :p
[15:59:28] <brad_a> well not much of a choice
[15:59:29] <fuzzie> you can't spawn helpers on ios?
[15:59:32] <brad_a> no
[15:59:38] <fuzzie> that's annoying
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[15:59:48] <brad_a> well i havent been annoyed by it till now
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[15:59:57] <brad_a> at least i dont *think* you can
[16:00:12] <brad_a> i remember way back when you couldnt
[16:00:14] <fuzzie> well if gemrb only runs jailbroken anyway then of course you *can* in theory
[16:00:23] <brad_a> sure :)
[16:00:38] <fuzzie> but then I would just indeed change them to FATAL
[16:00:53] <brad_a> but i guess my hope is to keep gemrb in line with non jailbroken as possible in hopes that one day it could be allowed on the app store
[16:01:14] <Avenger> about gemrb license: new games don't have to be gpl, as long as the original gemrb engine can run it. If they have to modify guiscript, obviously it should remain in source code (no precompiled python), and should remain modifyable.
[16:01:55] <Avenger> just consider the already supported games, are they gpl, of course not :)
[16:02:55] <Avenger> so, as long as our engine can run the new game, with possibly imported guiscripts from that game, i think they are clear.
[16:02:57] <fuzzie> yeah, obviously if it's independently developed then it's nothing to do with us really
[16:03:30] <fuzzie> but GUIScript can't be independently developed, since it's all tied together so closely with our own unique code
[16:03:54] <fuzzie> but as you say, it's simple to just keep guiscript as modifiable source..
[16:04:12] <Avenger> but they are in source format, so if they are allowed to be modifiable / redistributable, they are compatible with gpl
[16:04:59] <fuzzie> i have really come to hate this licensing stuff though
[16:05:22] <Avenger> i just say, the game data be it new or old game, shouldn't be gpl, just as our currently supported games are not gpl
[16:06:03] <Avenger> and anyone, gog for example, would be allowed by the gpl to simply repackage our engine with the original game data
[16:08:23] <Avenger> see you later!
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[16:17:24] <tomprince> brad_a: We could perhaps add a hook into error. But we do still have some global data outside of Interface, so I don't know if that would be safe. :(
[16:17:51] <brad_a> for now i will change the log level. (since i already did :p)
[16:22:43] <CIA-28> GemRB: 03bradallred * r49aa6ef8a8f1 10gemrb/gemrb/core/Interface.cpp: Interface: have errors that make init return failure log at FATAL level so that GUI alerts can be produced.
[16:22:44] <CIA-28> GemRB: 03bradallred * r1e40f265b4b3 10gemrb/apple/CocoaWrapper/ios/GEM_AppDelegate.mm: GEM_AppDelegate: remove now unneeded GUI alert for engine failure (better GUI errors are produced by the core now)
[16:27:43] <brad_a> oh man thats sweet!
[16:27:51] <brad_a> this will help a lot
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[18:20:34] <CIA-28> GemRB: 03avenger_teambg * rf5f1bd090d3f 10gemrb/gemrb/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
[18:20:35] <CIA-28> GemRB: added hack to apply effect, to replace itself with the applied effect (permanently)
[18:20:35] <CIA-28> GemRB: fixed heretics bane, hopefully
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