#gemrb@irc.freenode.net logs for 20 Dec 2012 (GMT)

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[00:02:03] <lynxlynxlynx> good luck, i don't know if you can disable the grid
[00:02:12] <lynxlynxlynx> but just try & zzz
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[00:57:36] <chiv> http://pastefile.com/uploads/wmmosdp.mos <--- this makes such a subtle difference, you wouldnt notice it, but I have trouble reading the stock text without it
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[08:00:25] <Avenger> iesdp is down again, i'm happy with the backup solution :D
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[09:22:08] <edheldil> chiv: maybe hook it up to some guienhancements flag. But before doing so please consider coming up with a better scheme for guienhancements than a bitfield full of magical values :)
[09:22:43] <chiv> hey that wasnt my idea :)
[09:24:18] <edheldil> I know, that's why I wrote "consider" instead "make bloody sure" :-D
[09:24:26] <edheldil> instead of
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[09:27:50] <chiv> i dont see whats wrong with just storing the config lines as variables for gemrb.getvar
[09:28:39] <fuzzie> for what purpose?
[09:29:20] <chiv> for adding options
[09:29:38] <fuzzie> to gemrb.ini?
[09:30:03] <chiv> yeah, or something like that anyway
[09:30:38] <fuzzie> I mean, we already read the config out of the game ini.
[09:31:52] <fuzzie> But the last time we discussed this I thought we were mostly trying to get rid of the gemrb.ini entirely.
[09:32:14] <fuzzie> Since it's such a pain on mobile platforms etc.
[09:35:14] <lynxlynxlynx> *cfg
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[09:38:16] <chiv> at the very least you need the game path though right?
[09:38:53] <edheldil> fuzzie: I hope you mean gemrb.cfg :-)
[09:38:56] <fuzzie> erm, yes
[09:39:02] <fuzzie> haven't had coffee yet.
[09:39:04] <fuzzie> it is sitting here now.
[09:39:12] <edheldil> chiv: you could e.g. try to walk standard paths on some platforms
[09:39:38] <edheldil> or run it with just an option on command line
[09:40:15] <edheldil> or have a config wizard like on mac
[09:41:25] <edheldil> or have a ingame gui like in scummvm
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[09:42:48] <edheldil> grr :)
[09:44:56] <fuzzie> :-)
[10:15:23] <edheldil> btw, what's the format of tis files found in bifs? is it just tis without a signature?
[10:28:06] <lynxlynxlynx> are you sure they are different? Could be you're looking at a TIZ
[11:00:31] <edheldil> that's what I get when I export a tis from pst with NI
[11:03:21] <edheldil> TIZ is not even mentioned in iesdp
[11:12:51] <lynxlynxlynx> hmm, a weidu thing thing then, it's just a zlib compressed tis
[11:23:20] <Avenger> you use weirdu to extract a tileset?
[11:23:37] <Avenger> serves you right if it messes up :P
[11:24:46] <Avenger> ahh you used ni
[11:24:50] <Avenger> well, same pie
[11:24:54] <Avenger> use dltcep :D
[11:25:15] <fuzzie> doesn't answer the question :P
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[11:26:53] <Avenger> the answer: tilesets extracted by dltcep got a header, and it seems the engine eats that
[11:27:35] <Avenger> that's all i know, tilesets in bif don't have a header they are stored one (tile) entry for each tile
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[11:50:26] <traveler> heh. had the weirdest 'bug'
[11:50:49] <traveler> here was I, bravely fighting skeletons in Durlag's
[11:51:05] <traveler> each hit 12, 11 damage...
[11:51:13] <traveler> but what sorcery is this?
[11:51:21] <Avenger> luck bug?
[11:51:34] <traveler> they are truly undead! each one had 1hp... and were crushing me
[11:51:36] <Avenger> something raises luck
[11:51:51] <traveler> no, i was just pummelling them bare fisted :)
[11:51:55] <Avenger> aah
[11:52:01] <traveler> and didn't notice :)
[11:52:47] <traveler> stupid, but happened. and i was already thinking how to reproduce
[11:55:46] <traveler> about real bugs, I think (enchantment? this spell what sirens casts and give you red spiral on portrait)
[11:55:50] <traveler> is not really working
[11:55:58] <traveler> your circle turns to red
[11:56:03] <traveler> but you have full control?
[11:59:36] <Avenger> dire charm?
[11:59:49] <traveler> yup i think this its the one
[12:00:07] <traveler> *stupid grammar
[12:01:42] <traveler> + i have a hunch that a little (none?) creatures are spawning lately/ disrupting sleep
[12:02:29] <Avenger> yeah validtarget doesn't check charmed state
[12:05:05] <Avenger> actually, GA_NO_ENEMY should take care of that
[12:05:09] <Avenger> hmm
[12:06:05] <traveler> presently, only thing that turning red makes you
[12:06:15] <traveler> is you cannot sleep nor travel
[12:06:23] <traveler> that's all
[12:06:38] <Avenger> wait
[12:06:51] <Avenger> if you select someone else
[12:06:59] <Avenger> can you reselect your red circled guy?
[12:07:10] <traveler> i have solo party
[12:07:11] <Avenger> or the problem is that you kept control while it ws red
[12:07:23] <Avenger> you can unselect
[12:07:28] <Avenger> i think
[12:07:40] <traveler> i think when turning red
[12:07:48] <traveler> i'm autounselected
[12:07:57] <traveler> but then i can clink on portrait and hey, back to action
[12:08:03] <Avenger> hmm
[12:11:24] <Avenger> well, maybe this fixes the problem
[12:13:13] <traveler> now i should summon some siren i think?
[12:13:42] <traveler> what was shorthand for tha?
[12:13:43] <traveler> ;)
[12:15:13] <Avenger> CreateCreature(0,"sirine")
[12:15:24] <Avenger> i don't know if there is shorter:)
[12:15:53] <traveler> who would think, sirine is sirine ;)
[12:16:10] <Avenger> yeah, these bioware guys came up weird names :D
[12:17:22] <traveler> stupid magic resistance
[12:17:58] <traveler> zzzz...
[12:18:35] <traveler> nope
[12:18:39] <traveler> precisely no difference
[12:18:56] <traveler> charmed -> unselected but can select again
[12:19:45] <traveler> it's even better
[12:20:09] <traveler> because
[12:20:32] <traveler> when red enemies don't attack you :)
[12:20:47] <traveler> so it's blessing functionally
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[12:24:43] <traveler> this one with orange head icon (mind enfeebling? whatever)
[12:25:04] <traveler> works properly, as i've permanently lost control
[12:29:15] <lynxlynxlynx> you're using the git version right? that floating text bug was also reminiscent of old code
[12:29:30] <traveler> i'm using git
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[12:29:47] <traveler> i probably pull once in o hour
[12:30:04] <traveler> that's why i was reporting this
[12:30:04] <lynxlynxlynx> you click and the text doesn't appear or?
[12:30:10] <traveler> yes
[12:30:23] <traveler> only place reminiscent of the old bug
[12:30:40] <traveler> maybe there shouldn't be text?
[12:30:55] <traveler> as "reading" them is trigger
[12:31:13] <traveler> for quest
[12:31:42] <lynxlynxlynx> i can reproduce it
[12:31:50] <traveler> in any way, they are some special case
[12:31:58] <traveler> good
[12:32:24] <lynxlynxlynx> they have text set and are no inactive
[12:33:16] <lynxlynxlynx> i guess the script blocks it
[12:34:35] <lynxlynxlynx> hmm, the script is trivial
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[12:42:20] <lynxlynxlynx> TRAP_USEPOINT is not set for these infopoints
[12:42:56] <lynxlynxlynx> as expected
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[12:47:13] <chiv> derp, page crashed, I didnt notice
[12:52:48] <chiv> anyway, going back a bit, I assumed the GUIenhancements flag were eventually going to be handled by some in game menu
[12:53:52] <lynxlynxlynx> probably best and easiest to add another options subwindow
[12:55:35] <lynxlynxlynx> traveler: do you know if these are displayed in the original?
[12:55:50] <lynxlynxlynx> we currently only display their overhead text if they have no script
[12:55:59] <lynxlynxlynx> (= are not traps)
[12:57:14] <traveler> sadly, i don't remember
[12:57:31] <traveler> but if there is some text, they should be?
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[13:09:45] <lynxlynxlynx> likely, yes
[13:10:30] <lynxlynxlynx> as far as i remember traps have separate messages in their scripts, so i don't know why we make either exclusive
[13:11:40] <traveler> but traps texts _are_ displayed
[13:11:55] <traveler> as far as i understand
[13:13:00] <lynxlynxlynx> yes, but the data is elsewhere
[13:13:16] <lynxlynxlynx> looks like we've been doing this from the start, code is from 2004
[13:13:46] <lynxlynxlynx> fuzzie: any objections to changing GameControl.cpp:1935 to display the overhead text even for infopoints with scripts?
[13:20:35] <fuzzie> is that correct?
[13:21:45] <fuzzie> it seems like it would be pretty bad in general
[13:22:28] <fuzzie> due to interactions with deactivated flag etc
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[13:30:19] <lynxlynxlynx> are you talking about the present or the proposed state?
[13:30:33] <lynxlynxlynx> i think an extra disactivated check wouldn't hurt
[13:32:36] <fuzzie> but I don't know if that's correct or not :)
[13:33:54] <fuzzie> hmm
[13:33:55] <lynxlynxlynx> until yesterday, it looked fine, but now we also have a case for the other way
[13:34:02] <fuzzie> it's pretty wrong
[13:34:32] <lynxlynxlynx> it's in ar0511 btw
[13:35:35] <fuzzie> so
[13:35:45] <fuzzie> all regions get trig_clicked
[13:36:35] <fuzzie> type 2 (travel) gets LeaveAreaName+MoveToPoint plus, if there is text set, text in the message window
[13:37:29] <fuzzie> for type 1 (trigger): if there is text then { always display overhead, plus if subtitles enabled, display in message window }, then if USEPOINT is set, send trigger_walkto and do MoveToPoint
[13:38:34] <fuzzie> so displaying the overhead text always seems fine, and I just put the rest in the irc log for future reference :)
[13:39:15] <traveler> present
[13:39:38] <lynxlynxlynx> so it doesn't care about active/deactivated at all?
[13:40:30] <fuzzie> not as far as I can see
[13:40:36] <traveler> as far, as I've observed, triggered traps display text. if this was not what you were referring to, sorry for confusion
[13:40:44] <fuzzie> traveler: define 'trap' :-)
[13:40:55] <lynxlynxlynx> those are done via their scripts
[13:40:59] <traveler> red tiles
[13:41:10] <lynxlynxlynx> Trap sprung!
[13:41:13] <traveler> i;mnot sure about others
[13:41:20] <fuzzie> red tiles are usually proximity which is handled elsewhere
[13:42:01] <traveler> trapped chests display text too?
[13:42:03] <fuzzie> ah that deactivated check is from way too long ago
[13:43:15] <fuzzie> i wouldn't bear it any mind :)
[13:47:39] <lynxlynxlynx> pushed
[13:48:23] <lynxlynxlynx> i'll leave the leavearea stuff to you, i bet it's not just about generating a few extra actions there
[13:49:24] <lynxlynxlynx> turns out it is a blocker in iwd2, you can't enter a house in the second area
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[14:01:07] <traveler> thanks, it's fine now
[14:13:31] <traveler> later!
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[15:35:31] <chiv> y'know, apart from some generic problems, torment is actually quite playable with gemrb
[15:36:42] <fuzzie> problem us, original engine is full of special cases
[15:36:47] <fuzzie> is
[15:38:23] <chiv> hmm.. so the trick is actually finding out what they are?
[15:39:29] <brada> well the trick is probably re like handling special cases without breaking other games and/or convoluting everything
[15:41:53] <chiv> i wonder is it worth making a fork, then you could focus on working out what needs to happen ingame without worrying about breaking stuff
[15:42:36] <brada> we dont want to fragment things
[15:43:01] <brada> the idea is to externalize as much as we can
[15:44:19] <chiv> well, i didnt mean a permanent fork, just a sort of research testbed
[15:45:10] <brada> just make a new branch ;)
[15:45:32] <chiv> yeah, thats the word i wanted
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[15:48:55] <brada> i've decided that palettes are the biggest obstacle in making an SDL2 driver :/
[15:49:20] <brada> and they are everywhere...
[15:51:02] <brada> also there is no good way of reading pixels out of a texture
[15:51:13] <brada> but we seem to only do that to duplicate a sprite
[16:02:09] <brada> i see code in sdl that deliberately hides SDL_PIXELFORMAT_INDEX8 support for textures too
[16:02:37] <brada> i guess its not widely supported?
[16:08:03] <fuzzie> it seemed not so bad
[16:08:22] <brada> yeah it looks like if GL_EXT_paletted_texture is there then you can use paletted textures
[16:08:29] <fuzzie> you can do it with shaders though if you nust
[16:08:47] <brada> sure but that still makes it a pain with the way gemrb is setup
[16:09:04] <lynxlynxlynx> https://www.opengl.org/registry/specs/EXT/paletted_texture.txt
[16:09:26] <lynxlynxlynx> seems like only old stuff has it
[16:10:25] <fuzzie> brada: well, it's how a lot of stuff works in the games :-p
[16:10:36] <brada> right
[16:10:51] <fuzzie> afaik the modern mobile chipsets still support it
[16:11:36] <brada> it looks like people still use it with iphone
[16:11:48] <lynxlynxlynx> http://feedback.wildfiregames.com/report/opengl/feature/GL_EXT_paletted_texture <-- ugh
[16:11:52] <brada> so yeah it would seem that at least theere is some type of emulation available
[16:12:19] <fuzzie> lynxlynxlynx: that is kind of unreadable
[16:12:29] <fuzzie> does it have mobile users?
[16:12:44] <fuzzie> i am on tabley, tricky to search
[16:13:07] <fuzzie> i know that modern desktop drivers don't bother
[16:13:10] <lynxlynxlynx> this is probably for 0ad, so i expect mostly desktop/laptop grade cards
[16:13:41] <fuzzie> since modern gpus have lots of vram and you can really do it w/shaders
[16:14:14] <brada> so it wounds like we shouldnt bother with paletted textures?
[16:14:44] <fuzzie> deprnds what you want to target..
[16:14:49] <lynxlynxlynx> maybe later as a fallback or something, it is clear it is not a silver bullet
[16:17:03] <fuzzie> bother me in a few hours for info re: shaders
[16:17:09] <fuzzie> not at home until then
[16:17:16] <brada> ok
[16:17:48] <brada> can we do something similar to this: http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/83582-Color-Replacement-Shader
[16:19:08] <brada> seems like we will have to abstract the palette class into 2
[16:19:10] <fuzzie> that is the idea, yes
[16:19:35] <fuzzie> it is slower due to needing two lookups per pixel
[16:20:05] <fuzzie> why do you need abstraction though?
[16:20:32] <fuzzie> when you set new palette you just bind new texture in
[16:21:07] <brada> do we really want to create and destroy textures for palettes we use frequently?
[16:21:15] <fuzzie> maybe you want caching on backend but if so I guess you want to match contents anyway
[16:21:51] <fuzzie> i am not thinking much here though.
[16:22:08] <brada> well im a novice in this area at best
[16:22:24] <fuzzie> i just don't have gemrb code here :)
[16:22:41] <fuzzie> got to run, alas. ttyl.
[16:22:52] <brada> ill be here :)
[16:23:18] <lynxlynxlynx> if gl is oh so better, maybe the lack of caching wouldn't be so painful
[16:28:12] <brada> that may be the case
[16:28:21] <brada> each one is only 256 colors so
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[16:40:45] <edheldil> so ... who's gonna write the OpenGL backend? ;-)
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[17:17:49] <brada> I thought of probably a good reason to cache palette textures
[17:18:08] <brada> fonts have many many glyphs all using the same palette
[17:18:15] <brada> and they change frequently
[17:18:47] <brada> every call to print a character would have to create a new texture
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[17:25:28] <edheldil> can you do that at all, btw? Caching shader-made textures
[17:40:50] <brada> well wait to see what fuzzie says
[18:06:41] <lynxlynxlynx> heh, interesting twist
[18:06:56] <lynxlynxlynx> for once the guiscript manages to do the right thing, while the core doesn't
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[18:33:06] <fuzzie> just make normal textures
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[19:41:37] <brada> really wish uni had an opengl class that was going at night :(
[19:45:37] <lynxlynxlynx> at night? :s
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[19:47:48] <Beholder> hi
[19:48:18] <lynxlynxlynx> ahoj!
[19:48:26] <brada> hey
[19:50:59] <Beholder> I got a strange issue in latest gemrb, Russian symbol '' looks as '?'
[19:51:56] <Beholder> Damn, not '?', as 'Y' with two dots in up
[19:52:17] <lynxlynxlynx> hmm, we did make some encoding changes, maybe you need an extra config
[19:52:23] <lynxlynxlynx> edheldil: ?
[19:52:37] <Beholder> All other letters looks well
[19:53:38] <Beholder> '' is a latest letter in Russian alphabet and latest in encoding tables
[19:54:23] <Beholder> I using official localized resources
[19:56:11] <chiv> eh? I thought it was a sharp s...
[19:57:03] <lynxlynxlynx> that's in german
[19:57:20] <lynxlynxlynx> or was, i think they might have dropped it
[19:57:47] <chiv> indeed, but whats it in the russian alphabet?
[19:58:32] <lynxlynxlynx> don't remember, was there only once
[19:58:34] <brada> nothing
[19:58:51] <brada> im pretty sure that you are seeing the wrong character
[19:59:19] <chiv> probably, i am just using the webchat page..
[20:01:56] <Beholder> http://ifotki.info/12/285b77440bc1e21a425c7b33c23eff0fbc8616138693757.png.html
[20:02:05] <Beholder> look at this screenshot
[20:02:39] <brada> that even looks like diffrent rendering
[20:02:48] <brada> very queer
[20:04:43] <brada> я
[20:04:54] <brada> chiv: i think that is what beholder meant to write
[20:04:59] <chiv> that i can see
[20:04:59] <brada> if you can see that
[20:05:05] <lynxlynxlynx> ah
[20:05:16] <lynxlynxlynx> <-- яka :)
[20:05:17] <brada> not ß
[20:07:33] <brada> i dont understand why the rendering looks so different there unless that frame is actually messed up like that in the bam
[20:08:38] <Beholder> of course ))
[20:08:53] <Beholder> - small
[20:09:11] <chiv> heh when you type it, it comes as ß
[20:09:38] <brada> yeah lol
[20:10:22] <Beholder> http://hot-100.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/4b5bcb19898f199d724276b9288e44fd.png
[20:10:32] <Beholder> proper look
[20:10:48] <chiv> also, the small version came up as y with two dots in the chat window
[20:11:24] <brada> eureka!
[20:12:25] <chiv> я He noHNMAIO...
[20:13:27] <Beholder> chiv, you speak Russian? :)
[20:13:51] <chiv> heh not really, just a couple of things
[20:14:23] <Beholder> :)
[20:15:21] <brada> heh. nobody is likely able to see that text in russian except for beholder
[20:15:42] <chiv> http://pastefile.com/uploads/Screenshot%20-%20201212%20-%2020:14:55.png
[20:16:05] <Beholder> Heh ^(
[20:16:24] <chiv> that might explain why its gone wrong...
[20:16:38] <Avenger> hey Beholder :)
[20:16:45] <brada> well that explains why it is ÿ instead of : я
[20:16:50] <Beholder> hey Avenger
[20:16:54] <brada> but it doesnt answer why that is the only char messed up
[20:18:33] <Beholder> In briefings and descriptions '' looks proper
[20:19:08] <brada> beholder that is because those are lower case i assume
[20:19:16] <Beholder> may be
[20:19:18] <brada> or diffrent font...
[20:19:18] <lynxlynxlynx> my thought exactly
[20:19:28] <Avenger> that is a capitalization problem, i think
[20:19:31] <lynxlynxlynx> the font is likely the same in the original
[20:19:46] <Avenger> you need to set up the pairs for the small/cap letters
[20:19:55] <lynxlynxlynx> that's why i mentioned the charset mapping inis we have now
[20:20:16] <Avenger> ah yes, everyone said that before me :)
[20:21:47] <lynxlynxlynx> Beholder: copy gemrb/unhardcoded/shared/default.ini to russian.ini and change Letter5
[20:21:59] <lynxlynxlynx> looks like the commented out one could be ok
[20:22:18] <lynxlynxlynx> err, for starters just modify default.ini, no need for copying
[20:22:59] <lynxlynxlynx> otherwise you need to add an Encoding=russian to our cfg
[20:23:50] <Beholder> GemRB.cfg?
[20:27:39] <Beholder> older version http://ifotki.info/12/c487ec108303ba57f55110f68de6a3cdbc8616138695298.png.html
[20:27:48] <Beholder> 0.6.X
[20:28:28] <Beholder> text looks more more accurate
[20:29:21] <lynxlynxlynx> yes, GemRB.cfg
[20:29:46] <Beholder> current version: http://ifotki.info/12/285b77440bc1e21a425c7b33c23eff0fbc8616138693757.png.html
[20:30:22] <lynxlynxlynx> iwd2's equipping stuff is still badly broken, hard to test my changes :(
[20:31:08] <lynxlynxlynx> you sure you didn't change anything in fonts.2da?
[20:32:24] <brada> why is the font so much bigger?
[20:32:35] <brada> yo cant change the size of bam fonts without a mod
[20:32:39] <Beholder> lynx, of course, I changes only gemrb data
[20:32:41] <brada> so is this a mod font?
[20:32:54] <Beholder> )
[20:32:55] <Beholder> no
[20:33:13] <Beholder> i install both versions some times ago
[20:33:22] <Beholder> ang got screenshots
[20:33:27] <Beholder> *and
[20:33:41] <brada> right but the font size is clearly diffrent
[20:33:43] <Beholder> 0.7.0 and current
[20:33:52] <Beholder> s
[20:34:45] <Beholder> same resources
[20:34:56] <Beholder> no changes for it
[20:35:13] <brada> i dont see how that is possible
[20:35:23] <brada> unless you are using a ttf font
[20:35:53] <Beholder> I compiled with ttf, but no ttf font using
[20:37:08] <chiv> has anyone else noticed, the ч is the only other letter in the new screenshot the same size as the old screenshot
[20:38:11] <brada> it doesnt look the same size to me
[20:38:22] <brada> oh
[20:38:22] <Beholder> smaller
[20:38:30] <brada> yes chiv it does
[20:38:32] <-- Cuvieronius has left IRC ()
[20:38:44] <Beholder> and looks as an older version
[20:39:52] <chiv> i am just guessing, perhaps the larger ones were there all the time and just unused
[20:40:01] <brada> could be
[20:40:09] <brada> but that seems so silly
[20:40:29] <brada> are the large ones capitals?
[20:41:19] <chiv> i think its sort of 'all caps'
[20:41:48] <brada> right i mean a capital for the font
[20:42:02] <brada> like some english fonts are all caps but the capitals are larger
[20:42:20] <chiv> thats what I would guess
[20:42:30] <chiv> need the font :)
[20:42:54] <brada> well its the only explanation if it is the same font bam in both pcs
[20:42:56] <brada> pics
[20:43:11] <Beholder> i can upload russian 2da to fileshare
[20:43:17] <Beholder> if needed
[20:43:30] <brada> no thats not needed
[20:44:02] <brada> i wonder what changed that would cause us to use the "capitals" there
[20:44:14] <brada> obviously that is wrong since it over flows the button
[20:44:35] <brada> curious that we dont seem to clip the text to the button
[20:44:44] <brada> but that isnt an issue
[20:44:50] <brada> normall
[20:46:04] <chiv> well the english version seems to use an all caps font for that text
[20:47:13] <brada> yeah but are they really the "caps" of the font?
[20:47:26] <brada> you would have to look at the bam or gdb
[20:47:37] <brada> or log it
[20:47:47] <brada> and see if the log has capitals or not
[20:47:50] <chiv> just trying to find it in dltcep
[20:48:37] <brada> im pretty sure they are actuall caps now but that clearly seems wrong at least for the russian version
[20:48:49] <brada> since they now overflow as i stated
[20:49:15] <brada> so i guess we do a transformation somwehre that we didnt do before
[20:49:18] <brada> or vice versa
[20:49:51] <Beholder> Encoding=russian seems help
[20:50:11] <Beholder> looks an in previous versions, good font and proper
[20:50:27] <Beholder> but it's bad
[20:50:53] <brada> how is it bad now?
[20:51:07] <Beholder> Android version downloads many people from many Countries
[20:51:56] <Beholder> writing some config options is hard for many people
[20:51:59] <brada> speaking of: its about time we had a newer android build ;)
[20:52:18] <brada> you can do like i did with ios and make a nice wrapper for easy config
[20:53:11] <lynxlynxlynx> Beholder: did you have to change just Letter5?
[20:53:53] <lynxlynxlynx> if it's just about switching the two lines, we can revert the default
[20:56:44] <Beholder> i need to comment first and uncomment second?
[20:57:06] <chiv> looks like the font has two sets of caps
[20:57:49] <Beholder> )
[20:58:11] <chiv> where can I get the russian patch?
[20:58:21] <Beholder> looks normal, small, other in CAPS
[20:59:05] <chiv> i bet it is just that way in the font and it has never caused a problem before
[20:59:23] <chiv> no idea why it would change though..
[20:59:41] <brada> well if changing the encoding settings makes it smaller then we are clearly doing someting :p
[20:59:50] <Beholder> if i delete Encoding=russian from cfg, is wrong
[21:03:31] <brada> its more than that tho right? doesnt that also make the font "bigger"?
[21:04:24] <lynxlynxlynx> so what did you put in russian.ini?
[21:09:09] <Beholder> i copy default.ini to russian.ini, uncomment commented line with letter5 , comment previous line with letter5
[21:13:09] <lynxlynxlynx> did that fix the size too?
[21:15:08] <lynxlynxlynx> & eh, i see, it's the quivers again, otherwise it would probably all work
[21:15:38] <Beholder> lynx, only Adding Encoding=russian without without russian.ini in override fixes all
[21:15:57] <lynxlynxlynx> well sure, without that russian.ini wouldn't be used
[21:16:28] <lynxlynxlynx> you can just change default.ini for now
[21:16:28] <Beholder> if I copy default.ini to russian.ini, and with Encodings line in cfg, fonts are big
[21:16:34] <lynxlynxlynx> huh
[21:16:52] <lynxlynxlynx> oh, without modification
[21:17:01] <Beholder> if i delete Encodings line, i got wrong
[21:18:09] <Beholder> http://aerie.ru/request.php?27 - russian fonts for BG1
[21:18:32] <Beholder> http://aerie.ru/request.php?26 - russian tlk
[21:18:47] <lynxlynxlynx> doesn't it print this in the log:
[21:18:56] <lynxlynxlynx> Loading encoding definition for default : default.ini
[21:19:43] <Beholder> with Encoding=russian? or without?
[21:20:04] <Beholder> i got some sleep....
[21:20:19] <lynxlynxlynx> whatever you say fixes it
[21:20:26] <lynxlynxlynx> i think you actually get "Cannot Load Encoding."
[21:20:33] <Beholder> may be
[21:21:08] <Beholder> you may apply patches and look
[21:21:40] <lynxlynxlynx> can't you just check?
[21:23:21] <Beholder> i need to install some software
[21:23:34] <Beholder> but now,go to sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep )
[21:24:50] <lynxlynxlynx> no, we make a log automatically
[21:24:57] <lynxlynxlynx> well, in the latest version
[21:25:01] <lynxlynxlynx> GemRB.log in the game dir
[21:25:06] <lynxlynxlynx> good night
[21:25:57] <Beholder> no log file in game dir on my device(
[21:26:14] <Beholder> Maybe somebody install these patches and check on pc
[21:26:28] <Beholder> it will be much easy
[21:26:34] <Beholder> bye
[21:26:46] <-- Beholder has left #gemrb
[21:29:45] <chiv> i will give it a go
[21:31:03] <fuzzie> brada: the quality of opengl classes sort of wildly varies anyway
[21:31:30] <brada> well i also need some upper division credits so its not *just* for learning ;)
[21:31:31] <fuzzie> the one here is still teaching old opengl (argh)
[21:32:20] <fuzzie> I thought about doing it anyway but, time, etc.
[21:32:37] <fuzzie> And unfortunately I am sort of overloaded with CS credits. :(
[21:35:39] <fuzzie> drat, none of my books here cover the palette problem, I thought one of them did
[21:36:11] <brada> i really do think that is our biggest problem
[21:36:18] <fuzzie> for text it depends on the texture sizes
[21:36:28] <fuzzie> also I forget, did you sabotage the nice sensible big-texture code or did you force it?
[21:36:52] <brada> im not sure what you are asking
[21:36:55] <fuzzie> well
[21:37:04] <fuzzie> at some point, some of the fonts made one big Sprite2D and rendered everything into it
[21:37:19] <fuzzie> which is what you want for opengl, one big texture rather than a huge number of small ones
[21:37:34] <brada> ah
[21:38:01] <fuzzie> I'm just thinking because it might be more efficient to just do the palette conversion locally, if there's a limited number of colours needed, since there's a lot of text rendered.
[21:38:30] <fuzzie> It's probably not worth it though, since it adds another case.
[21:39:28] <fuzzie> but what I meant about the Palette class is, you can't rely on that for caching
[21:39:49] <fuzzie> because gemrb doesn't just pass a few palette classes around, it copies their contents into new ones all over the place
[21:39:58] <brada> i see
[21:40:23] <chiv> wierd, I just installed a russian patch and everything is fine
[21:40:25] <fuzzie> I am kind of hoping that it does that infrequently enough that you can implement caching just by hashing the contents or something.
[21:40:25] <brada> well the class could know how to copy itself
[21:40:36] <fuzzie> yes, but I mean, it memcpy()s bits of palettes around
[21:40:36] <chiv> but different to the one beholder has
[21:40:40] <brada> im not too worried about caching atm
[21:40:47] <brada> yeah i know what you mean
[21:40:56] <fuzzie> so I'm not sure whether it'd be viable or not
[21:40:59] <brada> yeah
[21:41:05] <brada> i see that its complicated
[21:41:35] <fuzzie> honestly there don't seem to be *that* many calls though.
[21:41:38] <brada> we would need to actaully be able to do it first anyway :p
[21:41:43] <fuzzie> sure
[21:42:03] <brada> and i am at a loss of how to go about that
[21:42:16] <fuzzie> https://www.google.com/search?q=paletted+texture+site%3Ausecode.org <- :-p
[21:42:41] <fuzzie> so, this is a case of a lot of talking and no-one actually made it work yet
[21:43:09] <fuzzie> I guess step one would be to split the rendering of the game window from the rest of the GUI or something?
[21:43:18] <fuzzie> Did you do that already?
[21:44:30] <brada> i did that with a nasty hack for a proof of concept
[21:44:57] <chiv> ^ scratch what I said, found a broken ya
[21:45:02] <brada> ie so that i could zoom the game without the rest of the interface
[21:45:38] <chiv> lynxlynxlynx: I forget what you wanted to test...
[21:46:09] <fuzzie> brada: well, if you can do it cleanly enough that you can try switching the rendering, that is a pretty positive thing
[21:46:18] <fuzzie> I can't think how you'd do it :)
[21:46:40] <fuzzie> but, the rendering functions are pretty split, right? sprite/tile for in-game?
[21:46:50] <brada> not as clan as that
[21:47:07] <brada> blitGameSprite is used with buttons for example
[21:47:19] <brada> what i did was ugly :p
[21:47:20] <fuzzie> is it used for the game screen?
[21:47:31] <fuzzie> oh, it must be, BAM
[21:47:36] <fuzzie> hrmph
[21:47:41] <fuzzie> a flag then?
[21:47:52] <fuzzie> SetRenderingGameScreenPleaseDoTheRightThing?
[21:47:56] <brada> i had GameControl::Draw call some function in the video driver to copy backbuf to a texture and copy that to the renderer
[21:48:13] <brada> then everything else drew over that
[21:48:21] <fuzzie> *nod*
[21:48:38] <fuzzie> but so if you switched to an opengl renderer, you could do it that way?
[21:48:51] <chiv> i dont know why, but this conversation excites me
[21:49:11] <brada> i had a problem with the rest of the interface flickering
[21:49:27] <brada> and somewhere along the lines the color key for the sprites got messed up
[21:49:32] <brada> so i had green backgrounds
[21:49:56] <brada> and it didnt mitigate the need for palettes
[21:50:09] <fuzzie> well, the interface is sort of dirty-rectangled right now I seem to remember
[21:50:12] <brada> i bypassed it temporarily for the text which resulted in mostly white text
[21:50:21] <fuzzie> so you can't actually scribble over the whole backbuf
[21:50:22] <brada> but sometimes the text was illegible
[21:50:32] <fuzzie> did you do that, or did you just copy the game screen rect?
[21:50:55] <brada> i wasnt drawing over the backbuf itself i was copying SDL_textures to the renderer
[21:50:56] <fuzzie> (does SDL2 do color keys for textures?)
[21:51:05] <lynxlynxlynx> chiv: what's needed to get the right size + "ja"
[21:51:20] <lynxlynxlynx> i think in the end he only set an invalid Encoding option
[21:51:21] <brada> i hacked the sprite class so that every sprite had both an SDL_Surface and texture just so i could do various tests
[21:51:36] <brada> obviously not something we actually want to do
[21:52:08] <chiv> well, i didn't find the same patch he had, but it definitley doesnt like the ja letter
[21:52:14] <brada> afik sdl is supposed to be able to convert a surface with a color key to a texture with alpha but clearly something didnt work out there for me
[21:52:22] <fuzzie> brada: if it's true that nothing alters the texture data then that is really positive though
[21:52:28] <fuzzie> brada: maybe it doesn't work with palettes?
[21:52:47] <brada> no i had no problem with the sprite colors other than the non transparent bg
[21:52:56] <brada> so the palette conversion works fine
[21:53:03] <lynxlynxlynx> chiv: but what did you try?
[21:53:18] <brada> but obviously you loose the ability to swap colors since you now have a 32 bpp texture
[21:54:01] <fuzzie> i mean, maybe you can't have both palettes and a color key
[21:54:46] <fuzzie> or did you actually convert it to a 32bpp before doing SDL_SetColorKey?
[21:55:01] <brada> i used SDL_CreateTextureFromSurface
[21:55:08] <brada> oh
[21:55:12] <brada> maybe you are right
[21:55:17] <fuzzie> well I don't have a clue :)
[21:55:22] <fuzzie> just random guess
[21:55:34] <brada> it may be that i created the texture before the color key got set
[21:55:38] <brada> you are probably right
[21:55:47] <brada> anyway im not worried about that minor problem
[21:55:57] <brada> the palette problem is the reall isue
[21:56:01] <chiv> well, i am not sure what to do first - i dont have a russian.ini by the looks of it
[21:56:16] <lynxlynxlynx> you don't
[21:56:19] <brada> chiv: you dont
[21:56:22] <brada> what lynx said
[21:56:27] <lynxlynxlynx> so you just ran it and it didn't work
[21:56:41] <lynxlynxlynx> try adding Encoding=fudufafa to your gemrb cfg and retry
[21:56:55] <fuzzie> brada: well it's really trivial to do it using shaders.
[21:56:57] <chiv> well, i ran it and thought it did work :) but then i found an error
[21:57:26] <brada> i believe you when you say that, but i know NOTHING about shader/glsl/opengl
[21:57:35] <fuzzie> brada: that forum post above is way too overcomplex.
[21:57:53] <brada> forum post?
[21:57:53] <fuzzie> you just need to read from the source texture, read from the palette texture, output the result.
[21:57:57] <fuzzie> the one you linked way earlier
[21:57:58] <brada> oh
[21:58:03] <brada> yeah
[21:58:32] <chiv> well, turns out that setting encoding to martian fixes the ja
[21:58:40] <brada> ha ha ha
[21:58:41] <chiv> thats forward planning
[21:58:52] <chiv> know something I dont?
[21:59:06] <fuzzie> brada: but I guess in order to do that, first you have to make eeeverything draw with textures?
[21:59:14] <fuzzie> and can you do the shaders via sdl2?
[21:59:49] <brada> unfortunately now the ogl texture is private to teh sdl_texture
[21:59:56] <brada> you used to be able to get at it
[22:00:19] <fuzzie> right, and the official line is 'it would probably break hilariously anyway'
[22:00:25] <brada> yeah
[22:00:26] <fuzzie> so first step would be to make everything opengl
[22:00:28] <fuzzie> that sounds annoying
[22:00:32] <brada> yes it does
[22:00:34] <fuzzie> but it has been done
[22:01:02] <brada> because sdl2 does EVERYTHING else afik
[22:01:13] <fuzzie> well, I really doubt it does all the BAM effects
[22:01:13] <brada> it has nice drawing routines for rects and circles
[22:01:31] <fuzzie> which again probably need shaders on modern hw annoyingly
[22:01:32] <brada> i dont know about all of them but i was tinting jsut fine yesterday
[22:02:15] <fuzzie> stuff like covering I really have no idea how to handle
[22:02:44] <lynxlynxlynx> chiv: just means something is wrong with the default translation we do
[22:03:08] <brada> covering?
[22:03:18] <lynxlynxlynx> it will have to wait for edheldil to return, since he's the mastermind behind it
[22:03:18] <fuzzie> brada: basically a mask for when to draw or not to draw
[22:03:36] <brada> clipping rect?
[22:03:40] <fuzzie> not a rect :)
[22:03:44] <brada> oh
[22:03:46] <brada> i see
[22:03:49] <fuzzie> bits of walls etc, defined as polygons
[22:03:59] <fuzzie> but you can just get a mask bitmap if you want
[22:04:22] <brada> well i was more or less content letting the software renderer handle the game area
[22:04:24] <chiv> I have an idea, is it probably because as an unofficial translation, it forced the use of whatever encoding the game supports?
[22:04:31] <brada> and start by doing the rest in sdl2
[22:04:33] <fuzzie> ah
[22:04:39] <fuzzie> right, see, my immediate thought is the rest
[22:04:53] <fuzzie> because the GUI doesn't need to be redrawn much
[22:05:10] <fuzzie> so you can software-render it without needing much cpu
[22:05:17] <brada> yeah
[22:05:31] <brada> but i was thinking in termms of starting with the easy bit so i could learn
[22:05:33] <fuzzie> but ok, if you do it the other way around, I guess you can make more progress :)
[22:05:34] <fuzzie> yeah
[22:05:34] <lynxlynxlynx> chiv: it just used the default which seems fine for english and german and maybe more; setting it to something invalid makes gemrb avoid alll remapping
[22:05:39] <brada> since the other part iw way more complex
[22:05:42] <fuzzie> makes perfect sense!
[22:06:04] <brada> and we need to separate them anyway for things like zooming
[22:06:35] <brada> i guess i should say "thing" since that is the only thing i know we need
[22:06:51] <fuzzie> well, I would like it to be battery-efficient and fast
[22:07:30] <fuzzie> and I can play on a device with a touchpad so not too worried about zoom :-p
[22:07:47] <fuzzie> but you're right that it has to actually be realistic
[22:08:02] <lynxlynxlynx> it's all about resource efficiency for me too
[22:08:19] <brada> gemrb is dog slow on android
[22:08:22] <chiv> i am guessing no remapping is needed, if you paste beholders russian message into this: http://2cyr.com/decode/ - im sure its a way of encoding russian
[22:08:28] <brada> especially with our sdl2 driver
[22:08:41] <chiv> *a normal way
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[22:13:48] <fuzzie> brada: which is sad since it should be perfectly possible to do it fast
[22:14:11] <brada> yes its very sad
[22:14:23] <chiv> I just checked the font, it has all the english letters and russian letters, and the russian patch uses both
[22:14:37] <chiv> well... latin letter
[22:14:42] <chiv> pardon me :)
[22:15:28] <brada> i figured that since wis problem was getting a latin char instead of Cyrillic
[22:16:15] <chiv> its more or less as I suspected, the russian patch seems to use the extra latin chars like displayed in the chatlog above
[22:16:39] <brada> fuzzie: so in you opinion is using sdl2 not viable?
[22:16:54] <fuzzie> you can use it with opengl, no?
[22:17:09] <brada> im not sure anymore
[22:17:15] <brada> i see many gl functions
[22:17:20] <brada> but it is all greek to me
[22:17:47] <brada> http://wiki.libsdl.org/moin.cgi/FrontPage?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=_gl_&titlesearch=Titles
[22:17:52] <|Blaze|_> you can mix and match what ever you want from SDL
[22:18:12] <|Blaze|_> you're totaly free to use SDL for all your input/window creation and then write your own GL renderer
[22:18:30] <brada> but that isnt really using opengl with SDL_texture
[22:18:41] <brada> which is waht i originally had in mind
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[22:19:22] <|Blaze|_> yeah, you would run into issues mixing them.
[22:21:12] <brada> fuzzie: http://wiki.libsdl.org/moin.cgi/SDL_GL_BindTexture
[22:21:20] <fuzzie> frankly it's not really worth using SDL's terrrible input/window creation if you can't use anything else :P
[22:21:28] <brada> hehe
[22:21:37] <edheldil_> the trick with Russian fonts is probably that if you use Encoding=russian without having the file, the texts are not converted to uppercase. The solution would be to either disable conversion to uppercase in gemrb.ini if you use russian version, or use encoding file which maps uppercase to the same letter and hope it does not cause problems elsewhere
[22:21:58] <fuzzie> brada: right, that sounds like it would work for rendering the game screen?
[22:22:32] <brada> thats what it led me to believe
[22:24:25] <edheldil_> and I think that even without caching, palette changing fragment shader would be fast enough
[22:25:41] <chiv> these should be the actual links for the russian bg1 : http://aerie.ru/download.php?view.26 http://aerie.ru/download.php?view.27 , i think they have anti hotlinking
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[22:27:06] <brada> i beleive we were talking about caching the texture made from the palette
[22:27:11] <lynxlynxlynx> i like how there's a flurry of activity again :)
[23:05:07] <brada> i dare you to tell me this isnt the most painful website you've ever seen
[23:05:08] <brada> http://webby.hazasite.com/r/gamedev/comments/14bpis/need_some_insight_sdl_with_opengl/
[23:05:47] <fuzzie> well if we chop the domain name off and replace it with reddit.com, it looks pretty good to me
[23:06:00] <fuzzie> which frankly I tried before visiting the actual link :p
[23:07:11] <chiv> thats ... delightful
[23:11:08] <brada> fuzzie: my eyes thank you
[23:11:26] <brada> tho i had already disabled the nasty css bits
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[23:23:39] <edheldil_> that was awful :)
[23:24:02] <edheldil_> is webby.hazasite.com some mirror of reddit?
[23:24:57] <brada> probably some type of harvester/parisite site yes
[23:25:17] <brada> i added it to chrome personal blocklist
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[23:32:55] <lynxlynxlynx> heh
[23:33:07] <lynxlynxlynx> no scrolling marques though :)
[23:33:30] <lynxlynxlynx> or the days when flashing still worked
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[23:39:24] <brada> lynx: there is a scrolling marque tho
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