#gemrb@irc.freenode.net logs for 20 Oct 2010 (GMT)

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[08:05:30] <edheldil> nickdaly: my thoughts on your "Broke out" patch: getConfigDir() does two things at once (user config dir (~/.gemrb) and basename (probably "gemrb", but could be e.g. "bg2"). By putting both into one function and returning one in retval and another as sideeffect it obscures what it really does
[08:11:07] <edheldil> most legible approach might be creating a function that generates list of possible config paths+filenames and then just iterate over it
[08:16:36] <edheldil> and put all the platform-specific code into it - the #ifdefs are what makes the code unclear. It would also allow easy use of %usersetings% or registry keys on windows
[08:19:25] <edheldil> and, btw, '/' is a standard path separator in C++ even on windows, so it would be probably beneficial to exclusively use it in GemRB
[08:20:55] <edheldil> if you must update boilerplate indent, fix the year as well :)
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[08:21:01] <edheldil> (caveat: I wrote the code back then, so I might be overly protective of it ;-))
[08:21:34] <edheldil> hi, lynx
[08:26:32] <lynxlynxlynx> gmornin
[09:28:32] <pupnik_> http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php?/topic/499-fresh-news-from-the-board-production-2010-10-20/page__p__8207#entry8207 pretty pandora production pics
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[14:08:18] <lynxlynxlynx> http://www.sorcerers.net/forums/showpost.php?p=734598&postcount=96
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[15:48:29] <Avenger> hi
[15:51:19] <Avenger> omg, cutscene script starting two other cutscenes. I wonder if we can cope with this: ILDRGDIE
[15:52:53] <fuzzie> is this more BIS madness?
[15:54:05] <Avenger> something in HoW, yep
[15:54:18] <Avenger> and it is on a path critical part
[15:54:28] <Avenger> it is the death of the dragon in the end
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[15:56:00] <Avenger> SetVisualRange is totally flunked by us. It is not per creature, but per area. IESDP actually did this somewhat correctly
[15:56:14] <Avenger> SetVisualRange(0) resets it to 14, though
[15:56:52] <Avenger> 14 is the default in HoW, i assume it is the same everywhere
[16:05:17] <fuzzie> well
[16:05:22] <fuzzie> you disassembled the function?
[16:05:38] <Avenger> not entirely, i stopped tracking when it vanished in the 'area'
[16:05:39] <Avenger> :)
[16:05:40] <fuzzie> the thing about SetVisualRange is that at least in iwd2, it seemed like they meant it to work differently for party members
[16:05:47] <Avenger> i didn't decode the area struct of HoW yet
[16:05:55] <fuzzie> because they have cutscene scripts which do SetVisualRange on the party members
[16:05:58] <Avenger> yes fuzzie
[16:06:18] <Avenger> hmm, well, wait a bit
[16:06:18] <fuzzie> did they screw that up, or is it different?
[16:06:35] <fuzzie> for non-party-members, they only ever do it in area scripts i think
[16:06:43] <Avenger> i don't know, iesdp for IWD2 says that setvisualrange doesn't work for partymembers, it is for npcs
[16:06:58] <Avenger> and i look into HoW atm
[16:07:08] <fuzzie> well, i just say this before you go and change gemrb :)
[16:07:09] <Avenger> but i'm almost sure setvisualrange works the same in HoW
[16:07:23] <Avenger> i mean the same in HoW and IWD2
[16:07:46] <Avenger> and that it is a global value setting somewhere in the area searchmap or visibilitymap
[16:08:01] <fuzzie> ok, now i look, there is only one iwd2 script which does it in a cutscene
[16:08:07] <Avenger> i intentionally ignore area structs yet :)
[16:08:18] <fuzzie> woudn't be surprised to find they just screwed that up
[16:08:27] <Avenger> no, this is mostly a cutscene thing
[16:08:30] <fuzzie> i mean, which does it in a cutscene for every party member
[16:08:39] <Avenger> OH
[16:08:41] <Avenger> well :)
[16:08:45] <fuzzie> obviously there are loads of scripts which do it for non-PCs :)
[16:08:47] <Avenger> that seems to be odd
[16:09:08] <fuzzie> but i think they are all meant to affect the whole area
[16:09:09] <Avenger> for each partymember it would be excess, according to my current understanding
[16:09:16] <fuzzie> there's a VISUALRANGE stat, right?
[16:09:18] <fuzzie> oh, phone
[16:09:18] <Avenger> in HoW it is called only once per cutscene
[16:09:23] <Avenger> in BG2, yes
[16:09:43] <Avenger> HoW has exactly the same stats as BG2, up to stoneskins (86?) or 88
[16:10:09] <Avenger> 88
[16:10:37] <Avenger> some of the stats above 70 are halfway implemented, though
[16:10:42] <Avenger> or commented out
[16:11:02] <Avenger> it is definitely a work in progress at that part
[16:11:23] <Avenger> the actor struct already contains the place for them, but opcodes dealing with them are either missing, or do nothing
[16:11:33] <fuzzie> but honestly i haven't even tried the HoW-specific stuff in gemrb, so i know nothing :)
[16:11:48] <Avenger> now i like the HoW code better
[16:11:50] <fuzzie> only bg2 and pst are too interesting
[16:11:56] <Avenger> it is a kind of bg2 lite
[16:12:01] <fuzzie> and iwd2, because it has nice stuff
[16:12:29] <Avenger> iwd1 may be totally different, it is kinda strong bg1 totsc
[16:12:44] <Avenger> i think there is a big technological jump between how and iwd1
[16:12:53] <fuzzie> right, but they didn't patch much of the original iwd1 content
[16:12:56] <fuzzie> i think?
[16:13:02] <Avenger> the avatars are totally new
[16:13:15] <Avenger> and i didn't check how the internal actor struct changed
[16:13:21] <Avenger> did bg1 have stoneskins?
[16:13:24] <fuzzie> i mean that there is no need to decode iwd1 much..
[16:13:43] <fuzzie> since it's not much of a probem adding features, right?
[16:14:08] <Avenger> well, yes, except if they discard some halfassed concept and rewrite it from scratch
[16:14:14] <Avenger> they did that :)
[16:14:25] <Avenger> and we have to implement the crappy version AND the good version too
[16:14:26] <fuzzie> but then they surely had to implement all the needed stuff in the HoW engine anyway
[16:14:33] <fuzzie> except for this gui stuff
[16:14:48] <lynxlynxlynx> i wouldn't mind not-supporting plain iwd1
[16:15:09] <Avenger> well, i talk about the extended state bits
[16:15:20] <Avenger> and the weird area affecting opcodes in HoW
[16:15:27] <Avenger> IWD2 reimplemented them elegantly
[16:16:22] <Avenger> i still wonder when the .pro files came in the picture, and why iwd2 doesn't have them
[16:16:45] <Avenger> that code is really good, and i miss it from the other engines
[16:17:14] <Avenger> instead of 1-2 classes, HoW/PST/IWD2 has one class for each projectile, hand coded
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[16:17:57] <Avenger> they also got the vvc equivalent inside the code, it is just hardcoded
[16:22:40] <Avenger> oh, changecurrentscript, i wonder if we implemented it
[16:23:40] <Avenger> yeah, and ours is very very similar to theirs ;)
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[17:27:58] <Avenger> hmm, luck in HoW is cumulative...
[17:28:30] <Avenger> spwi209 uses the opcode, and it doesn't have the safeguards of bg2 :)
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[20:34:34] <Avenger> doh, i didn't expect this to happen. i did 'do-release-upgrade' on my perfectly working ubuntu linux. After 20 minutes, i got one that barely able to work at command line, and without a network device
[20:35:13] <lynxlynxlynx> heh
[20:35:40] <lynxlynxlynx> one of my friends called be an hour or so ago and he also upgraded
[20:35:42] <Avenger> note to self: never ever do this again
[20:35:51] <lynxlynxlynx> now the mouse and keyboard don't work anymore :)
[20:36:22] <lynxlynxlynx> i hope it's just the xorg autodetection bug, since i volunteered to fix it
[20:36:31] <Avenger> now i download an install cd...
[20:36:42] <lynxlynxlynx> backup your stuff
[20:36:51] <Avenger> well, the upgrade reported a success, except that at configure it broke in some python script
[20:36:55] <lynxlynxlynx> especially the ie related stuff ;)
[20:37:18] <Avenger> it said something like 'no module called 'apt' '
[20:37:35] <Avenger> it seemed fairly innocent, so i rebooted
[20:37:38] <lynxlynxlynx> apt is the underlying package manager
[20:38:04] <Avenger> then it failed to bring up the network interface, and cannot start any x term
[20:38:21] <Avenger> i wonder why it got gnome, when i use kde too
[20:38:27] <Avenger> it tries to start gdm
[20:38:36] <Avenger> so it is a pile of mess now
[20:39:22] <Avenger> i thought this is a routine action, upgrading from lts
[20:39:56] <Avenger> and i waited a long time to make sure there won't be zero day problems
[20:40:19] <pupnik> ow
[20:40:35] <Avenger> i never said this but linux sucks :(
[20:40:38] <fuzzie> upgraded lts to new lts?
[20:40:52] <Avenger> well i typed: sudo do-release-upgrade
[20:40:52] <fuzzie> heh, you want to see some windows service pack disasters? :)
[20:40:56] <fuzzie> i think computers just suck :(
[20:41:06] <Avenger> i had an lts
[20:41:11] <fuzzie> oh, i only ever used the GUI clicky button
[20:41:30] <Avenger> one would expect command line is more reliable
[20:41:47] <Avenger> actually: i just watched a movie and my vlc gui crashed :)
[20:42:01] <Avenger> so i thought, ok, i will do the upgrade to see if it is any more stable
[20:43:03] <Avenger> i won't be trying to install from the cd today, i need some time to calm down
[20:43:08] <fuzzie> i don't know if the command line gives you the nice "beware, this will break, maybe you should uninstall" prompts
[20:43:24] <fuzzie> i mean, i don't really know ubuntu anyway
[20:43:34] <fuzzie> i just watched other people use it..
[20:43:52] <fuzzie> but that sure sounds like it sucks
[20:44:21] <Avenger> well, it just said: this list of packages are no longer supported by canonical, and something like 'your 3rd party install path is disabled, you will need to re-enable it manually after upgrade'
[20:44:55] <Avenger> nothing said that after upgrade your linux kernel won't supply a network device :)
[20:45:56] <fuzzie> eh :(
[20:47:24] <Avenger> ok, see you tomorrow, lets hope my data won't be destroyed
[20:47:27] <pupnik> 3rd party non-free drivers?
[20:47:37] <pupnik> ok nm
[20:47:46] <pupnik> good luck tomorrow Avenger
[20:47:48] <Avenger> well, i added wine's install path
[20:48:10] <fuzzie> well, if you want to come by here, we could try working out if we can fix your install
[20:48:15] <Avenger> i think that was the 3rd party site, i also got ubuntu multiverse, but i guess that's 'supported'
[20:49:11] <Avenger> bye
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[20:49:15] <fuzzie> bye!
[20:54:03] <lynxlynxlynx> upgrading is always a mess if you're on a system with milestone releases
[20:54:53] <fuzzie> well, i just got someone to reinstall the one i use on the netbook
[20:54:59] <fuzzie> but it did just want to reformat everything
[20:55:32] <fuzzie> i am asking pointed questions of canonical employee friends and they have no answers, it is a bit sad
[20:55:44] <fuzzie> you would think that if upgrading is going to be dangerous at all, they would have a simple way to recover
[21:01:57] <lynxlynxlynx> they could pretty easily add a slow-but-recoverable option
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[21:07:43] <pupnik> hmmm
[21:08:19] <pupnik> thank you for buying hardware that doesn't support linux
[21:10:36] <lynxlynxlynx> doesn't? it worked perfectly for him in the days of yesterday and before
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[21:32:24] <pupnik> lynxlynxlynx: if you need to add non-free repos, then the mfgr isn't supporting linux
[21:32:38] <pupnik> imo
[21:33:20] <fuzzie> i don't think there was a non-free repo, but it should really work in any case
[21:33:24] <fuzzie> not impressed
[21:33:45] <fuzzie> i can't recommend ubuntu to people if they have no recovery path from an upgrade..
[21:35:18] <pupnik> yep
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[21:35:30] <lynxlynxlynx> from what i hear mandriva had this done pretty well
[21:35:36] <lynxlynxlynx> but now they've forked
[21:35:39] <lynxlynxlynx> again
[21:35:58] <pupnik> i really* prefer the linux driver situation to the windows one
[21:36:04] <lynxlynxlynx> if i had to choose a binary distro it would probably be opensuse
[21:36:26] <pupnik> i don't have much experience with different ones
[21:36:26] <fuzzie> i have to use opensuse every day, which is quite enough to make sure i don't want to suggest it to anyone else
[21:36:55] <pupnik> fuzzie: last time i used it, it worked ok for me. what's annoying?
[21:37:02] <lynxlynxlynx> hehe
[21:37:11] <fuzzie> i *love* the gentoo machines i use, but the administrators have to spend a lot of time keeping everything working
[21:37:29] <lynxlynxlynx> it's the same with sourcemage if you're update happy
[21:37:34] <fuzzie> pupnik: thousands of little annoying bugs :(
[21:37:57] <fuzzie> although the whole sage situation didn't really help with the gentoo love
[21:39:18] <pupnik> i think a gentoo phase is good for everyone
[21:40:10] <pupnik> plus i need to trust my distro
[21:40:25] <pupnik> so i use one where i know the people behind it
[21:41:06] <pupnik> http://aptosid.de/ debian/sid based liveCD/distro
[21:41:46] <edheldil> you don't know the thrill of running "make installworld" in FreeBSD, guys :)
[21:41:53] <edheldil> ... on production servers
[21:43:11] <lynxlynxlynx> without first testing it?
[21:43:24] <fuzzie> who needs tests when you have badly-maintained backups? :)
[21:43:41] <lynxlynxlynx> the world is not a bofh comic
[21:44:35] <pupnik> i don't mind backups
[21:44:38] <pupnik> it's the restores...
[21:52:14] <lynxlynxlynx> chronomorphic fields
[21:52:43] <lynxlynxlynx> the ia thread took a turn for the odd
[21:55:56] <pupnik> anyone in UK?
[21:56:21] <fuzzie> i don't think any of our usuals are
[21:56:35] <pupnik> well...
[21:56:37] <pupnik> http://slashdot.org/story/10/10/20/1958209/UK-To-Track-All-Browsing-Email-and-Phone-Calls "The UK government plans to introduce legislation that will allow the police to track every phone call, email, text message and website visit made by the public. The information will include who is contacting whom, when and where and which websites are visited, but not the content of the conversations or messages. Every communications provider will be req
[21:56:38] <edheldil> I think pupnik is
[21:58:57] <pupnik> grr
[21:58:59] <pupnik> oh well
[22:04:36] <lynxlynxlynx> you think that'll go through?
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[22:16:34] <Lightkey> wow
[22:24:36] <pupnik> duno
[22:24:41] <pupnik> want another fun one?
[22:24:53] <pupnik> "Recently the Washington Post ran an extensive report by Dana Priest and William M. Arkin on the bloated intelligence community. They found that an estimated 854,000 people hold top-secret security clearances"
[22:25:02] <pupnik> http://projects.washingtonpost.com/top-secret-america/
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