#gemrb@irc.freenode.net logs for 21 Sep 2010 (GMT)

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[15:27:26] <wjp> hm, the video now linked to from gog.com has a frame which has Baldur's Gate in it. (As pointed out in the youtube comments)
[15:28:22] <wjp> (somewhere around 0:12)
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[15:32:36] <fuzzie> idiots :)
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[15:32:57] <wjp> gog, youtube commenters, or both? :-)
[15:33:12] <Avenger> hi
[15:33:15] <wjp> hi
[15:33:33] <Avenger> i was recently (last week) on gog, and i didn't find baldur's gate there. i looked for it specifically
[15:33:40] <wjp> yeah, it wasn't on there
[15:33:41] <Avenger> how come it is on their video now
[15:34:01] <wjp> we'll see tomorrow
[15:34:14] <wjp> "the internet" is already speculating far too much as it is :-)
[15:35:16] <wjp> if you didn't look at gog.com yet since sunday, they have "shut down". Current online concensus seems to be it's a marketing stunt
[15:35:31] <wjp> for something to be announced tomorrow
[15:35:51] <wjp> but we'll see :-)
[15:35:53] <fuzzie> which is much appreciated by those of us who have bought things from them
[15:36:50] <Avenger> yep, using the bg image in a good bye video just won't make any sense
[15:38:37] <Avenger> i bet they will have some kind of drm now
[15:40:15] <wjp> they say they're keeping games drm-free, but they phrase it such that it could mean only the current catalog
[15:40:41] <wjp> but DRM would really really disappoint me
[15:41:08] <Avenger> the sentence is something like 'we cannot continue drm free' and then they show a good bunch of games not on their current list made me think that
[15:42:20] <fuzzie> i'm sure the torrent sites will appreciate the continued business..
[15:43:46] <wjp> "Sometimes it's really hard being DRM-free... hard to keep things the way they are and keep management and publishers happy :(" was their line on twitter
[15:44:14] <wjp> of course that's sufficiently vague to say nothing
[15:52:34] <edheldil> well, it's sufficiently non-vague to me
[15:53:30] <edheldil> what was their business, anyway? Selling old games verbatim? Selling them patched to run on modern Windows? On Linux?
[15:53:48] <edheldil> (sorry, I haven't ever bought anything from them)
[15:54:06] <wjp> patched and/or configured to run on semi-modern Windows
[15:54:21] <wjp> sometimes with scummvm or dosbox, sometimes not
[15:54:51] <edheldil> thanks.
[15:55:13] <edheldil> I hope their inclusion of BG won't make it harder for GemRB :/
[15:56:44] <lynxlynxlynx> it could only make it easier
[16:08:26] <Avenger> lynx: depends on how they see us: a market enabler, or a pirate :)
[16:09:18] <Avenger> though if they sell stuff with scummvm, i guess, they could use gemrb to sell the ie games on linux/other
[16:09:35] <Avenger> but gemrb is currently not market solid :)
[16:10:32] <Avenger> who are these gog people anyway? wasn't some of them connected to some IE game?
[16:10:43] <lynxlynxlynx> i thought they just sell games
[16:11:22] <Avenger> no, i'm pretty sure at least one of them wasn't a simple merchant :) or i just dreamt it
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[16:16:50] <Avenger> ahh no, they are cd project, they just translated some of the ie games to polish
[16:17:18] <Avenger> and of course, created the witcher
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[16:35:44] <Maighstir> They never supported Linux or Mac OS X officially, though their ScummVM and Dosbox games could of course be be transferred to other platforms the applications run on. I'm pretty sure they'll just simply sell the Windows version of the IE games, since they run on XP, Vista, and 7 as-is.
[16:36:44] <Maighstir> as for their future... no one knows, or those who do know won't share
[16:39:54] <fuzzie> well, a not-insignificant amount of their customers were clearly using scummvm/dosbox/etc
[16:40:19] <fuzzie> and these DRM rumours would mean that kind of thing is unlikely to be possible in the future
[16:40:52] <fuzzie> (and the IE games as-is seem to have a lot of graphics problems for a lot of people, but am sure they'd do their best to patch that)
[17:02:24] <wjp> some with-drm games on steam use dosbox too, by the way
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[17:17:07] <Avenger> if you turn off the accelerator stuff in the ie games, they work perfectly
[17:17:19] <Avenger> i got some patcher that disables the non-working parts
[17:17:53] <fuzzie> i seem to remember that some of the effects end up very slow, though
[17:18:15] <fuzzie> because the solution seems to be to disable all hardware acceleration of any kind..
[17:22:23] <fuzzie> maybe just in the BIS games, now i look
[17:22:59] <Avenger> yeah, maybe, but i read it is selectively turning off stuff
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[17:30:57] <spike411> So yesterday I tried stepping through the bashing door process… http://paste.jabbim.cz/4878 but I guess I didn't really find anything interesting. Any suggestions where to look further? Maybe I could try to compare it with handling containers.
[17:32:08] <spike411> And if from the log it seems to you that I don't know what the heck I'm doing with gdb… you're correct.
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[17:33:25] <fuzzie> it doesn't look like you stepped far enough
[17:33:31] <fuzzie> but i forget what the code is like there
[17:34:13] <spike411> It's in gemrb/core/GUI/GameControl.cpp, line 1644 void GameControl::HandleDoor(Door *door, Actor *actor)
[17:34:25] <spike411> But I guess you can see that from the log. :)
[17:34:27] <spike411> Nevermind.
[17:35:06] <spike411> I can go through the process again, no problem.
[17:36:35] <fuzzie> i am pretty sick, so you can't trust anything i say.. :P
[17:36:57] <fuzzie> but the TryToBash code isn't so helpful to trace, because it just creates an action
[17:37:08] <fuzzie> and it uses the script name, which is dumb
[17:37:25] <fuzzie> if you ctrl-m the door, does it *have* a unique script name?
[17:37:52] <spike411> Lemme see
[17:39:39] <spike411> Script: NONE
[17:40:14] <fuzzie> i forget what it calls the script name
[17:40:34] <fuzzie> it says 'Debugdump of Door <scriptname>:', apparently
[17:40:40] <spike411> Here's the whole debugdump just in case http://paste.jabbim.cz/4880
[17:41:05] <spike411> ar1000_door2 then
[17:42:20] <fuzzie> so that sounds pretty reasonable
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[17:43:12] <fuzzie> and it works fine on containers?
[17:43:17] <spike411> Yes
[17:43:36] <fuzzie> how strange
[17:43:41] <spike411> Indeed
[17:44:42] <spike411> print *Door the moment TryToBash is called if it's any helpful: http://paste.jabbim.cz/4881
[17:45:09] <fuzzie> the important point is probably after that
[17:45:25] <lynxlynxlynx> did you try from different character positions?
[17:45:29] <fuzzie> in core/GameScript/Actions.cpp line 5018 or so
[17:45:37] <fuzzie> it does sound like it would be a distance issues
[17:47:38] <spike411> lynxlynxlynx: I've tried with different characters.
[17:48:24] <lynxlynxlynx> from different standing points?
[17:48:37] <lynxlynxlynx> they probably try to move to the same spot if they're too far
[17:48:57] <fuzzie> hmm
[17:49:04] <fuzzie> ok, this code is doing GetStrengthBonus
[17:49:34] <fuzzie> i thought i sabotaged that
[17:50:33] <spike411> lynxlynxlynx: If I'm far from the door, the characters don't move at all (before or after TryToBash is called).
[17:50:47] <fuzzie> but apparently not
[17:50:53] <spike411> And if I'm right next to the door… well it still doesn't bash it. :)
[17:51:09] <spike411> If that's what you're asking.
[17:51:49] <fuzzie> you have the right strings to see a fail, etc? i haven't been keeping up
[17:52:23] <spike411> Well the strings work with containers. None appear with doors.
[17:53:42] <spike411> Added by lynx recently http://gemrb.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=gemrb/gemrb;a=commit;h=b83bad7066bfdc20fabd5f654fdc82b6862a487e :)
[17:54:27] <lynxlynxlynx> yeah, they're fine
[17:54:34] <fuzzie> look fine to me
[17:54:47] <fuzzie> well, i can only suggest you start tracing where i suggested, in Actions.cpp
[17:54:55] <fuzzie> which is where the actual bashing is done
[17:55:31] <fuzzie> if you get a target object 'tar' there, printing PersonalDistance(Sender, tar) should tell you the distance involved
[17:56:52] <spike411> OK
[18:03:24] <spike411> I can only say I don't get to line 5018 at all.
[18:03:28] <spike411> So far.
[18:04:03] <lynxlynxlynx> keep the distance thing in mind
[18:04:45] <fuzzie> oh, sorry
[18:04:53] <fuzzie> line 5041 in the latest code?
[18:04:58] <fuzzie> you want GameScript::Attack
[18:05:16] <fuzzie> and you want to know what 'GetStoredActorFromObject' returns, so i guess you want the line *after* that
[18:05:18] <spike411> OK. RunningAttack seemed strange :)
[18:05:29] <fuzzie> so i guess actually 5043
[18:06:33] <spike411> (gdb) p PersonalDistance(Sender, tar)
[18:06:33] <spike411> $3 = 302
[18:06:45] <fuzzie> ok, that is way too high, i think
[18:07:06] <fuzzie> print 'ret->Pos'
[18:09:39] <spike411> No ret->Pos in that context…
[18:09:49] <fuzzie> we do something quite silly there, where the position of a door is set in the middle of the bounding box of the door's outline
[18:10:03] <fuzzie> erm, sorry, 'print tar->Pos'
[18:10:40] <fuzzie> that is the door's position, and Sender->Pos is the actor's position
[18:11:31] <spike411> No symbol "Sender->Pos" in current context. No symbol "tar->Pos" in current context.
[18:11:31] <spike411> Am I doing something wrong? o_O
[18:11:56] <fuzzie> i am really pretty sick, so maybe i'm saying something really stupid here
[18:12:03] <lynxlynxlynx> don't use quotes
[18:12:25] <lynxlynxlynx> fuzzie: you got hit pretty bad :(
[18:12:55] <spike411> lynxlynxlynx: Then I get No symbol "tar" in current context. Huh
[18:13:27] <fuzzie> seems strange if the tar worked just before that
[18:13:35] <fuzzie> did you maybe step into something else?
[18:14:35] <lynxlynxlynx> press f
[18:14:56] <spike411> Yeah probably. Tried again (also moved the character a little closer): http://paste.jabbim.cz/4882
[18:15:44] <lynxlynxlynx> what's the distance if you jump the actor below the center of the door?
[18:17:14] <spike411> jump as in ctrlaltdelete:hans() cheat code?
[18:17:16] <fuzzie> if you break on GameScript/GSUtils.cpp:1221 then you can check wi.range directly
[18:17:24] <fuzzie> ctrl-j for jump i think?
[18:17:28] <spike411> OK
[18:18:35] <spike411> [GameScript]: MoveBetweenAreas: Sheris to ar1000 [2370.556] face: -1
[18:18:35] <spike411> Teleported to 2370, 556
[18:19:19] <lynxlynxlynx> still more than 30
[18:19:25] <spike411> Distance is 33. I guess I was not precise enough. :)
[18:19:53] <fuzzie> standard weapon range is 2?
[18:20:04] <fuzzie> i really have no clue about the specifics here :)
[18:20:34] <fuzzie> but since we're setting the door position to the middle of the bounding box, i guess a low range isn't going to work well
[18:20:39] <spike411> Uh now the door opened… I have to check the messages when it actually bashed it. o_O
[18:20:52] <lynxlynxlynx> i think in bg2 most have 1, twohandlers have 2 and atleast one spear has extended reach (3?)
[18:22:32] <lynxlynxlynx> but they're maybe higher, since you can attack over npcs with twohandlers and the one range unit is probably smaller
[18:23:02] <lynxlynxlynx> ...than a normal feet circle
[18:25:24] <spike411> Seems like I can actually bash the door with distance 33 or 36
[18:27:05] <lynxlynxlynx> 30 was a guess, i don't know what we have in the code
[18:27:23] <lynxlynxlynx> technically, i'm at work
[18:33:33] <fuzzie> it is (weapon range + 1) * 10
[18:36:13] <spike411> When I attack the door from greater distance the character doesn't move at all. When I (try to) open the door the character moves in to distance of about 62 which is still not enough.
[18:36:29] <spike411> fuzzie: Where's the comparison?
[18:38:17] <spike411> So yeah when I position the character close enough manually it works.
[18:45:09] <fuzzie> spike411: GSUtils.cpp:1222
[18:45:48] <fuzzie> the bug is that GetPositionFromScriptable returns the TrapLaunch
[18:46:08] <fuzzie> but the comparison is checking the Pos
[18:46:55] <fuzzie> and the movement code is using GetPositionFromScriptable, so it thinks you're close enough, i guess
[18:51:13] <fuzzie> something like http://fuzzie.org/nfs/gemrb/dist_door.txt might work
[18:51:57] <fuzzie> the proper fix is probably to fix Pos though
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[19:07:12] <spike411> fuzzie: It doesn't.
[19:09:18] <fuzzie> drat :)
[19:10:42] <fuzzie> oh, uh
[19:11:41] <fuzzie> well, i forget how this works
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[22:42:50] <pupnik> [ot] Karateka: "During the interview, Mechner related this amazing easter egg from the original Apple II version of the game: The programmer doing copy protection for the game figured out that by messing with the bit table, the whole game could be played upside down, which is really hard to do. We thought it would be hilarious if we burned the flipped version of the game to the other side of the disk."
[22:42:56] <pupnik> "We figured of all the people who buy the game, a couple of them would accidentally put the floppy in upside down. That way, when that person calls tech support, that tech support rep would once in blue moon have the sublime joy of saying, 'Well sir, you put the disk in upside down,' and that person would think for the rest of their life that's how software works."
[22:43:01] <pupnik> http://www.nerve.com/archived/blogs/karateka-remake-in-the-works
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